Thread 24704184

maekar I targaryen, first of his name edition

ASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_Page
Blog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/
Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/
So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/
Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/
SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdy
General search: http://searcherr.work/
TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chapters

old: >>24681455

Daenerys Targaryen sucks.

Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR

>>24704184 (OP)
>Fatass (Aegon IV)
>Virgin Son (Deron II)
>Chad Son (Maekar)
>Femboy Son (Aegon V)
>Weakling Son (Jaehaerys II)
>Crazy Son (Aerys II)
>Sissy Son (Rhaegar)

Why is Maekar the exception?

I like Catelyn's chapters but I do not like Catelyn.

>>24704184 (OP)
The charges, officer?

>>24704514
Bein' a pufta mate. Gunna go down for life you is.

I am re reading the books and... is George just a bad writer?

>>24704599
When did you realize it?

For me it was the Vargo Hoat bullshit in ASoS. He clearly wanted something interesting to happen with Jaime, but he didn't know how to get there organically. The forced Bolton explanation makes it really obvious.

>>24704616
Embarrassingly it was on my second read though. The Danny stuff is just sloppy as fuck and he adds a ton of shit pointlessly. I can also see how heavy handed he is sometimes with his rather basic bitch opinions. He gives up having any real message behind the story half way though the first book and pretty much just plays things straight or directly references some historical event.
What is the fucking point of Danny anyway?

>>24704641
I'll do you one better. What is the point of the Others?

All the story investment is in the grounded politics and emotional arcs of the characters. A giant Ice Apocalypse means an abrupt end to all of them.

If the long night doesn't happen, then it feels like a wasted setup. If it does happen, it has to be put down in an anticlimatic way. Or it is appropriately weighty and all the character work goes to waste.

Will Jaime redeems himself? Ice Apocalypse

Will Cersei burn down Kings Landing? Ice Apocalpyse

Will Jon claim Winterfell? Ice Apocalypse

Will Arya finish her-- Ice Apocalypse

Everyone hates the show, but it probably is going to follow most of the same beats. Bad long night and all.

>>24704732
I always thought the petty political machinations, lies, broken oaths, etc. were meant to be ultimately meaningless come winter. The most famous quote is centered around winter and Jon has the second most POV chapters in the series. Combined with Bran, Sam, and the prologues, a great deal of the story is focused on the others/winter right from the very first page of the series.
Unfortunately, the books are unlikely to ever be finished and the show was shit on every level, so it doesn't really matter either way. The series obviously did not go the way Gurm originally planned it to, and that's why the story hasn't progressed in 25 years.

>>24704641
Dany is a relic from the original draft

>>24704823
That’s the plan but… it’s just never going to actually work out that way on the page.
Yes, for the characters in the story all the political bullshit is meaningless in the face of giant ice apocalypse. But for the reader that stuff is the only reason they give a fuck about the story, and the giant ice apocalypse cuts it all short and deprives it of a satisfying resolution, or alternatively the giant ice apocalypse turns out to be the most overhyped nothingburger in history so everyone can just get back to it - as happened in the show.
The heros fighting the evil faceless army of ice demons was always just fated to be chloroform on print.

>>24704823
>meant to be ultimately meaningless come winter
Thats the issue, we'll be spending 6 books on characters who will have been doing meaningless things. Maybe if the apocalypse causes a great reevaluation it could be satisfying. Perhaps "A Dream of Spring" is that hint of everything going wrong.

Gurm if he wrote the battle of pelennor fields be like
>they shat as they slew

>>24704184 (OP)
>get interested in ASOIAF mysteries again
>remember that it’s all un resolvable, unplanned, no-answer mystery boxes on the level of LOST
>remember there will never be another book since he’ll die soon
UGGHHHGHG

>>24704732
The only thematically coherent way to end the series is the others killing everyone.
Surface level it’s climate change. Full depth it’s the heat death of the universe

>>24704910
The point is to not have a satisfying resolution. Realism over romanticism

>>24705024
There’s already a story where plot threads go nowhere, character arcs stop abruptly with no real point, and there’s foreshadowing all over the place that never amounts to anything. It’s called real life.
If I wanted realism I wouldn’t be reading fiction. Literary realism is a disease

Just finished the third book

>>24705036
>"Literary realism is a disease"
>goes to read and obsess over works of a writer who is known to do exclusively literary realism in his themes and plots
What did anon mean by this?

Reminder that the Nights Watch is Lightbringer

> I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn

Dragons being Lightbringer is gay, Lightbringer just being a sword is gay.

>>24705176
When was the NW tempered in water, driven through a lion's heart, impaled nissa nissa etc?

>>24705193
>When was the NW tempered in water
Hardhome
>driven through a lion's heart
They'll end Lannisters
>impaled nissa nissa

Holy shit it all fits together

any good books in asoiaf style? I was thinking maybe First Law by Abercrombie but idk. I need to fill the void.

>>24705193
>interpreting a prophecy literally
The oath uses a sword as the metaphor for the Night's Watch, Lightbringer is supposed to radiate heat “I am the fire that burns against the cold”, Nissa Nissa “sacrifice” could tie into why the Watch doesn’t take wives.

>>24704223
>Daenerys Targaryen sucks
Daario's cock with its dyed pubes

>>24705165
The weird idea of trying to depict magic “realistically” is called magical realism. Laurus is actually a good exam of it if you want a book set in he Middle Ages. The idea that ASOIAF depicts dragons and magic or even medieval politics (absolutely no dynasty lasted as long as some in the book purport) “realistically” is a joke, because normies think brutal is enough to make something realistic, just like Mad Men is to normies a realistic depiction of the 1960’s and Rome is a realistic depiction of life in ancient Rome

>>24705207
Even if you go with metaphorical interpretations the watch doesn't fulfill the water/lion parts of the prophecy.

>>24705718
If the shows ending is canon (likely given it was based off the notes of Gurm), then prophecies mean less than a fart in the wind. Arya could have pulled a tacticool 360 knife noscope on the bad guy at literally any moment and all his bad guy henchmen would vanish

>>24705796
This is just bait at this point. Show and book are universes apart.

>>24705821
Season 8 of GoT is the only basis on which we can judge the ending of the series. You can cope all you want.

>>24705821
Save for the fact that they made the last two seasons based on the outline the fat man gave them. His plan for the story as of writing dance in 2011 is roughly what we saw in Season 7 and 8

>>24705796
>prophecies mean less than a fart in the wind
Not quite.

>>24705821
Wrong, but also to add on to this.

When GSteph went to Cushing, he also found dropped plots from the book. One of which was the Jon fighting the mutinees at Craster's. That plot found its way into the show which suggests 1 or 2 things.

1. George was feeding more info to D&D than he has let on.

2. D&D have had access to the draft notes for awhile.

The show is retarded, but GRRM's involvement has been understated if not outright lied about.

>>24704863
Go on

>>24706072
Not the anon, but I can try to elaborate.

In the original draft Dany was meant to kill Drogo and then escape to the wilderness so that she could raise her Dragons and invade Westeros.

However, when you consider the proportion of chapter space spent in Westeros versus Essos it becomes harder to integrate her into the story. Similar to the issue with the Others invasion, Dragons presenting their own apocalypse leaves the vast majority of character arcs and stories in a lurch.

Granted, Dany has the capacity to be much more political but Dragons are a bad influence. Especially when you're basically a foreign power, Tyroshi accent and all.

So whats a writer to do?
You just park her ass and nerf her. Thats why not much happened for her in ASoS or ACoK, it'd be too disruptive.

>>24706116
Cont.

Dany is also arguably not important to really anyone's story on the continent. But to be clear, I mean this in a emotional sense. Lets take Jaime for example.

Jaime's arc is about gaining honor. What would Dany's character add to this? She could do political things, such as pushing Cersei over the edge into becoming a mad queen that Jaime has to kill.

But, Margaery Tyrell already fits that role. Cersei is set up to go full mad queen without Dany. So what use is Dany there?

Or how about Jon?

When he gets resurrected, is he going to be honorable Jon or Lord Stark?

If we get honorable Jon, and he stays with the watch then he'd have to interact with Dany at the wall. But Dany only really would be at the wall after she invades successfully or she pulls a Stannis to assist there first. Regardless Jon would be doing the same thing no matter what Dany does, she'd be an addendum at best for his story.

If we get Lord Stark, he tries to take over the North with his Wilding army. This will cause a showdown between an Invading Southern Dany and a King of The North. If Dany never made it back to Westeros, Lord Stark instead will have to contend with the South of Westeros. The enemy for Jon remains the same.

Why, O creator of worlds, must you rest your pen?
The song that once burned bright within your heart
Now flickers and fades,
The candle is drowned in its wax
Did the years weary you?
Was the weight of your kingdom too great to bear?
That the children of men should suffer so?
Did the light of gold and silver
Dull the fire that forged dragons and ruin?
We wander still in your half-finished maze, O cruel master of tales!
Leering among the inky shadows of prophecies
Hearts aching for the answers
That lie dormant in your silence
Multitudes of voices in lamentations
Saying “I cry out to you, creator, but you do not answer; I stand up, but you merely look at me. You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me. You snatch me up and drive me before the wind; you toss me about in the storm”
And greater still the grief of those born from thine own mind
Have you not heard them?
The cries of children you bore from ink and dust?
They stumble without rest in the darkness
Seeking fates
Souls half made and grotesque
Insomniac spirits stumbling blindly
Eternally
Is this the grave you have dug for them
A grave of debts and promises unfulfilled
Tell us, George
Was greatness not good enough
To stay the hungering sloth that devours and rots

The real question is when the jon/arya romance would have been addressed.

>>24706285
In the outline Jon was still in the NW, but it would've had to be after the sack of winterfell when Catelyn flees to Castle Black with Bran and Arya.

>>24705207
you know what, maybe if the watch did take wives, they wouldn't be so understaffed

I remember a copy pasta on why the series will never be finished, GRRM being only capable of writing his characters into misery holes with no possible positive outcome. It ended with a comparison to the last published scene of a Robyn, a retarted kid, kicking down a beautiful snow castle.

Does anyone have it?

>>24706285
Its being addressed right now, Jon wanted to save Arya. Its just turned into brotherly/sisterly love, but not in a Targ way.

Although, I wonder if enough time passes and he learns about his heritage if that will change. They do think about each other alot.

If the Targs were at Dragonstone for generations with dragons after the fall of Valyria, why was Aegon the first one to consider conquest?

>>24706398
>Its just turned into brotherly/sisterly love, but not in a Targ way.
heh

>>24706454
To quote MLK:
"I have a dream"

Do you guys think blood and fire is gonna ditch the whole unreliable maester thing after what happened with ryon and sara mess and hotd

>>24706640
Not likely, that's how he likes to write his in-world stuff, like World of Ice and Fire.
And their most egregious changes wouldn't come from alternate readings of F&B, they're more like fanfiction and bad showrunning.

>>24706640
No, a major motif is that characters have unreliable narration.

Narration, narration.
It rhymes with lactation.

Who is, genuinely, the funniest character, or group of characters?

>>24706759
Stannis

>>24706759
Stannis, Victarion, Dolorous Edd

>>24706759
easily Dolorous Edd
>"Dywen now, he says we need to learn to ride dead horses, like the Others do. He claims it would save on feed. How much could a dead horse eat?" Edd laced himself back up. "Can't say I fancy the notion. Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we'll be next. Likely I'll be the first too. 'Edd,' they'll say, 'dying's no excuse for lying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you've got the watch tonight.' Well, I shouldn't be so gloomy. Might be I'll die before they work it out."

>>24707031
>Dolorous Edd
My man. Was gonna go exactly with him. Tyrion's got wit but Edd is one of my favorite characters in general. He'll survive the long night to slip on a pile of dung and hit his head on an axe.

Axe, axe.
It rhymes with tax.

Saw some funny asoiaf tweets not too long ago.
Over time I started seeing more of them, and now I get an overwhelming amount of tweets from the weirdest fanboys.
I don't think they like the books.
Just a specific character from the book and then act like k-pop stans for that character, it's so incredibly insufferable.
Actually it's somehow worse, it's like a mix of k-pop stans and political fanatics.

I hope grrm never finishes the books and is gleeful about not finishing them.
Fuck those retards.

My fault for having twitter.
end of blog

>>24707276
I know which you speak of.
A bunch of them literally only read the chapters of the character they like. They skip every single other character.

>>24707276
>>24707285
for me, it's women who don't care about the actual story but obsess over Rhaegar and justify everything he did because the idea of a prophesized prince kidnapping them, raping them, and then making them a magic baby factory turns them on

>>24707295
For me it’s women in general

When will the american tolkien finish his magnum opus ?

>>24707015
>mislike
isn't this literally wrong?

>>24707445
Do you expect illiterate medieval plebs to have immaculate grammar and pronunciation?

>>24704732
>What is the point of the Others?
The Others are important to the actual overarching plot of asoiaf, which is an apocalyptic, prophesied final war between life and death.

We're never reaching that point because grrm focused on irrelevant bullshit, burnt out and went to go write elden ring.

>>24706759
The Brave Companions. They’re so evil it’s just funny.

>>24705916
Emphasis on the words "ROUGHLY". They are still two different things. I never even mentioned the difference in execution.
>>24705981
No, I was right. They are objectively and unquestionably different universes. Entire characters from the books were left out, merged or horribly butchered throughout the shows run. For fuck sakes, Faegon isn't even a thing in the show.
You or the other guy I'm replying too must concede that, for example, Euron acts exactly as he did in the show as he does in the books. I'm waiting for the famed "finger da bum!" line from his book version. I wonder how Martin will handle that. Look, I'm mad at the fat man as much as the next guy, but you don't need to discredit everything he writes.

>>24708416
The show couldn't adapt all of gurms mystery box bullshit due to time constraints. Characters like aegon were left out and euron's personality was changed because they're not actually important to the overall plot. They focused on broad story beats (the ending planned by Gurm) instead because D&D desperately wanted to be done.

>>24708573
gurm blogposts are not exactly a reliable source of information haha

>>24708416
>they are universes apart
>no here's how they're similar
>HA THEY ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT UNIVERSES

>>24707414
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

>>24707457
Edd’s a strange one, he was born poor but is from a noble family from the Vale.

Jets lost. Giants lost. Winds won’t publish this season boys

>>24709012
>Release of books dependent on New York having a good football season
If the patriots aren't in the superbowl, the Giants can't get anywhere near it. The Jets? They are the food of their division. We'll never get them

>>24709012
>>24709061
>My reaction when winds depends on the success of Justin Fields

>>24708416
What do you think of Euron chapter that was unveiled recently?

>>24709164
This goes hard.

>>24709012
George btfo
Giants gangrape the lord commanders of the nights watch, kings guard and city watch in winds confirmed

New morning throners episode guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVZfumo1-YQ
Get in there!

finish the books you fat fuck

Under what circumstances will Shireen be burned?

Anyone got the blog post where George says going to a wedding set him back months. Who plans this guys vacations. Still driving from New Mexico to Seattle? What the fuck? Just now he says he’s back at it three weeks later? Like a fuckin high schooler this guy. Sorry can’t write vacation in one week gotta pack. Sorry can’t write on vacation this month. Sorry can’t write just got back from vacation a couple weeks ago. Sorry can’t write gotta catch up on emails from the past two months. Sorry can’t write another vacation in a week. Rinse repeat. Fucker

What other fantasy books would you fine upstanding gentlemen recommend? :)

>>24710293
stannis is gonna start smonking the biggest nug of weed he can find n that lil bitch tries to take a honk and falls in

>>24710489
The Elric Saga
The Dandelion Dynasty (only book 1, the rest are pretty meh. Book 1 gives a full story, the rest are a spin-off)

captcha: SHALOM

>>24710489
Malazan book of the Fallen

>>24710359
>Still driving from New Mexico to Seattle
Sounds like he hates flying

>>24706173
Nice poem. Here, take a (You).

>>24705957
>subverted

>>24705036
imbecile-tier take
just stop posting, retard

>>24710359
He's a an evil mother fucker who likes rubbing salt in his fans' wounds. I'm telling you this is all by design, he despises the people who love this story

Dany will wholeheartedly believe she can fix Euron when they meet. He is her type.

>new blogpost titled busy month
>he's busy with everything but writing

>>24711112
sad but true, i can definitely see the story going this way

>>24711112
Yes, 100%
Jon Snow is way too nice for her, that ship is simply never happening, Dany likes bad boys.
Faegon was wise to not waste time hitting her up.

>>24711111
He’s said if he was really cynical he’d write a fantasy series forever. Why though. Why meta reason could there be to hate a fantasy series and it’s fans, especially one you created. And not because they are pissed with how long it’s taken he’s said it in the 80’s. What’s cynical about keeping it going.

Holy fuck two blog posts in two days he must really be considering the possibility of thinking about the possibility of sitting down and thinking about maybe writing ij between his month long vacations that he takes every month.

>>24711127
>Jon Snow is way too nice
Showtard detected

>>24704910
He is not gonna have an ending where everybody dies because he clearly loves this world and chatacters too much and we can't have prolonged Long Night because zombies will just steamroll everything if they are not stopped fast, so yeah one climatic battle at Winterfell is how it must go in books too.

>>24711200
We've seen a vision of the Others at the trident thoughever.

>>24711200
Figured it was either Winterfell or The Gods Eye. Honestly I’m pretty sure he’ll pull a Tolkien and have the big battle be rise for Bran to do his thing. But you’re right it can’t last too long, especially the sort of logistics it would put on the story. It could be interesting if he could pull it off.

>>24711213
>Winterfell
>Winter
>Fell

Bravo, George

>>24711194
He’s still not bad boy enough for Dany
I’m not even sure Jaime would be bad boy enough for Dany. Her type is dark triad as fuck

>>24711230
He's got the same moody sadboy energy that made Lyanna weak in the knees for Rhaegar. She's going to ignore Faegon who will essentially be Quentyn 2.0 (the safe, boring, nice option that gives her the most political power) so she can ride her nephew like a proper Targ monarch.

>>24710359
He isn't even pretending to write anymore.

This latest blog post that you are referencing is just brutal in how much he doean't give a shit. https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2025/09/08/a-busy-month/

How do you go from being months away from completing the book back in 2015 to where we are now?

>>24711255
Dany isn’t into moody sadboys, she likes dangerous edgy MEN like Drogo and Daario. If she met Euron he’d make her wet as fuck, Jon would barely twitch the thermometer.
> She's going to ignore Faegon
Faegon already preemptively ignored her, for the best as she wouldn’t be into him.
He is destined to get groomed by Arianne Martell.

>>24711272
He either finished it or came close to finishing it in 2015-16, but it was another boring mess like books 4-5 that barely moved the plot along so he scrapped most of it and then show overtook him and spoiled the ending and he lost motivation to work on any books, he seemed to try write something during covid, but that went nowhere too.

>>24711180
The fat fuck can't even write it forever he wants to just keep it on edge like a bitch.
Fuck George.

>>24711180
Artists get this really weird complex where they feel like something else they did should be what they're known for and not something else.

>>24711280
>random tyroshi sellsword is more dangerous than a vengeful Zombie whose mind has merged with a magical carnivorous beast

>>24704514
Being a careless treacherous psychopath of a Northman.
>>24704597
Nigga what are you saying?

>>24704616
Nothing wrong with Vargo Hoat, you absolute pleb monster.

>>24711310
>But when Jon comes back he’s going to be…
1. If
2. At that point we’re not talking about a character that exists in the story. We’re talking about a different character that the fans made up and who can be whoever you want him to be.
So, basically, the only way Dany would be wet for Jon is if he was a completely different character.

>>24711322
>At that point we’re not talking about a character that exists in the story.
We are. You can find glimpses of him by reading when he snuck into Rast's room, when he savaged Tyrion, when he throttled Thorne, his last interaction with Gilly, him clobbering Iron Emmett ,his dream of beheading Robb etc. Jon tries to prove Catelyn wrong and be Ned Stark's honorable son but there is a real asshole underneath the surface who also happens to have some sort of superstrength when he isn't stonewalling his connection to Ghost because of a fear being seen as a warg.

>>24711392
By the same logic we can argue there’s glimpses of Cersei not being a total scumbag therefore TWOW is going to have good guy Cersei in it.
Fact remains, it’s not discussing a character that exists in the story. It’s discussing a fanfic that’s inspired by the story.

>>24711255
>He's got the same moody sadboy energy
Dany doesn't want a moody sadboy, she wants a cocky psycho killer.

>>24711461
There is no indication Cersei will ever be good. Meanwhile GRRM has stated in a 2008 panel about "Anti-Protagonsts" that Jon would soon be a much greyer character than we had seen in the past.

>Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

The blue lips hint at Euron. The cold penis hints at an ice wight.

He posted it

>>24711512
Already happened in ADWD, what we just saw was it. Then he died.
Unless you think GRRM was already writing winds in 2008

>>24711686
He's been writing winds since the early 2000s. The mercy chapter was written before 2004.

>>24711686
>>24711704
He hasn't finished book four yet; but he's been planning since then.

I always assumed this was foretelling 3 marriages (dothraki, greyjoy, lyanna's son) but then what the fuck is Hizdahr? Another weed in the garden?

>>24711908
The corpse is most likely JonCon

>>24711912
so it's not about marriages?

>>24711917
Not sure about that specific line.

It's not Euron, because two eyes and grey lips.
It can't be Theon, because the eunuch wouldn't make a sensible husband.
I guess it could be Victarion, but I wouldn't curse even my worst enemy with a marriage to that brute. And can he even give sad smiles?

JonCon makes sense being a walking corpse with grey lips, bright eyes full of purpose and a sad smile still dreaming of his silver prince.

>>24711948
Euron does have two eyes, the eyepatch is unironically to hide his Sharingan
The reason the lips are grey is because grey lips smiling is George spelling out Grey Joy

>>24711908
Hopefully Jon doesn’t marry her, he needs a pure waifu not some loose whore.

>>24712095
Though Euron is never alluded to using those symbols.
He shows up from time to time in Dany's dreams, but the prow corpse is not like him.

>>24712109
He lashes Aeron to the prow of his ship in The Forsaken chapter.

>>24712131
Huh, I'd not made that connection.
It could certainly be Aeron, and it connects with the smoking tower, stone beast and shadow fire part. (Which I'm hoping is Leyton's magical weapon)

If Dany isn’t going to marry Euron what is even the point of Dario’s character if not foreshadowing that?
Dude may as well be his clone

>>24712313
>what is even the point of Dario’s character
so gurm can write about dany getting ass fucked instead of progressing the plot.

>>24711948
>It's not Euron, because two eyes and grey lips.
Could be Damphair, not as in a potential husband but just to foreshadow Euron's relevance.

>entire chapters dedicated to daenerys getting fucked in all of her holes rather than pushing the plot forward
Why did the fat man double down on being a pervert like this? He was a filthy fatso in the first book as well, but those scenes were short and the plot was always moving forward.

>>24704447
I hate how Gurm had to make her le chaste loyal widow and deny us the milf turboslut kino. She never even masturbates or has lewd thoughts, it's ridiculous. The perfect girl-servant who's more than a little tranny-coded never once fucks her and just fucks off with Jaime (who also should've fucked her btw). And then he kills her off and revives her as revenge-obsessed zombie instead of leaving her alive to get mindbroken by Hosteen's BIG FREY TOWER and Roose's FAT PINK LEACH. Just a waste all-around.

>>24705016
Nah. What he'd do is skip interesting fighting just like ol' Tolkien did, place the POV dumb far away from the battle OR make Pippin and Merry gigawarriors who can't be stopped and who slay thousands of orcs. Eowyn would probably be raped.

>>24705796
>>24705875
>>24705916
Of all the things he told them, Stannis burning Shereen hurts most. He could've kept his mouth shut and those jews would've probably found some other way to character assassinate him and we'd all be in a better place now.

>>24712331
>>24712420
Don't act like you didn't enjoy it.

>>24712493
I'm not female enough to enjoy cheap smut.

>>24712496
You're female enough to complain about author doing whatever the fuck he wants with HIS story.

>>24712503
>if you don't own the story that means you can't critique it
This is some advanced faggotry.

>HotD Season 3 joining Winds in production hell

That's honestly really, really funny.

>>24712632
based. may all of gurms' endeavors crash and burn

>>24712503
what got you butthurt, champ?

>>24712632
I’m really suprised they haven’t cancelled that show yet. Who the fuck still cares

>>24712783
Twitter trannies.
Brazilians.
Probably normies.

>>24712822
The 2 year wait followed by the cinematic chloroform that was season 2 killed normie interest stone dead

s-southronbros...how do we compete?

>>24712865
Peake > Manderly

>>24711908
The House of the Undying prophecy is just showing future and past events. The flower is Jon and the corpse on the ship is Aeron's sacrifice. The cloth dragon is Aegon and the smoking tower is Shireen's sacrifice. The blue-eyed king is Stannis's final shadow baby. These events will probably be related to Daenerys in some way but it doesn't necessarily refer to her marrying people.
It's Quaithe's prophecy of 'three mounts' that people assume to mean sexual partners
Daenerys has already had sex with three men (Drogo, Hizdahr, Daario) so if that assumption is correct, we know the prophecy refers to them.
>>24712313
Daario is Euron. No one has ever debunked this

>>24712420
>entire chapters dedicated to daenerys getting fucked in all of her holes

If only!

>>24712978
Corpse on the ship is Jon connington after learning Jon snow is rhaegars son and then dying of greyscale, smoking tower and stone beast is the volcano under the Hightower going off

>>24712828
The fact that HBO is so poorly managed now that they couldn't even put out Dunk & Egg this summer feels even more damning. I'm pretty sure people have forgotten about HotD entirely (even the ones that didn't think S2 was a complete farce).

George RR Martin has already completed both the sixth and seventh installments of A Song Of Ice And Fire. Alas, the story has taken a very controversial turn so the doddering old man has left instructions for it to be released only after he has shuffled off this mortal coil.
>Source
I warged into him once.

>>24711948
>I guess it could be Victarion
Victarion died early on in the initial drafts, George only changed that later.

Why did Bran see dragons stirring in Asshai?

>>24712108
I hope Jon marries her to make all /pol/cels angry.

>>24712506
>Literary critique is gay
Now you get it!

>>24713851
>>24712108
Jon’s dead, bros.
>b-but what about R+L=J, what about the prophecy, what about resolving the hero’s journey?
It’s over, your expectations=subverted

>>24713851
Jon will marry Arya. It is known.

I was listening to Last Seen Ahorse on youtube before he got nuked. I was on AFFC, and stopped at the first Jaime/Genna chapter.

Buckled and bought the audiobook through Apple. Does anyone happen to know what track that chapter was on? For some reason, the have over 100 hundred tracks despite there only being 46 chapters.

>>24713955
but i was expecting Jon to die in anticipation of george shart shart martin trying to subvert my expectations
this means that in order for him to really subvert my expectations is to make Jon the saviour hero and future king

>>24714052
https://mega.nz/#F!Fe4CkSZA
just listen to the series here
pin is Yjvhulp-T7aWK2az4G2D0Q

>>24714177
>I just spent 30 bucks when this was an option

David Lightbringer hearted my post!

Post, post.
It rhymes with roast.

>>24715115
GURMMED

>>24706398
I don't know, Jon thinks about Arya a suspicious amount of times. In contexts where a normal brother shouldn't think about his sister, like when he compares her to Ygritte on more than one occasion.

>>24715299
>He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn's own grandchildren for Winterfell.

Jokes on her, his sons and her grandchildren could be the same people. Gurm loves ironies like that.

>>24713393
Dishonorable and cowardly if true

>>24715430
It would not even be Jon fault, just the Targ genes going out of control, he lusts after the person he thinks is his sister and who looks exactly like him, he can't help it. He goes full schizo the second he reads Ramsay refer to Arya as "his bride", stronger proof Jon is a Targ than anything else is the fact he's such a siscon

>>24708416
>aegon
Bros a nothing burger character

>>24716297
Jaime and Cersei are Targs confirmed.

>>24716434
He probably is but JonCon probably isn’t. Same way Robb Stark was a nothingburger, the real star of that arc was Catelyn

100% of the time I play the AFFC start in the CK2 mod Tyrion gets executed by Dany the minute he shows up in Meereen for being an excommunicated, kinslaying dwarf

>>24716449
He’s gonna die with his fake Targ baby, would be kino if it happens after learning that Jon is Rhaegar actual kid.

>>24716524
Aegon is a Blackfyre and therefore the real Targ though.
Jon and Dany are some kind of bastard cousins from some dude named Daeron Waters.

>>24716562
cope, Daeron is trueborn.

>>24715115
The “fat pink mast” line is so infamous that I’d forgotten that this scene also involves breastfeeding (from a young mother, no less).
You can really tell that the series was way less famous, if George was this brazen about showing his fetishes.

>>24704184 (OP)
could King Slanding have won the game of thorns if he survived the bear attack?

>>24716568
Yeah, bro, and so is Joffrey.

>>24708511
This still means they're different. And mindlessly equating the show and the books is still retarded.
>>24708573
People won't ever get it. They're either showfags or got mind broken by the fatman being lazy that they started shitting all over his work out of spite.
>>24709164
I couldn't stop giggling throughout. I need more.

In the CK2 mod it seems like the Blackfyres are just the best dynasty for power gaming.
>All the same benefits as Targs
>All the same bloodlines as Targs, up to Viserys II
>Eternal claims on all of Westeros, even if none of your ancestors have ruled it in centuries.
>The Blackfyre bloodline itself has the same benefits as the Targ bloodline, and they stack, so it’s basically just Targ x2
>After that they get Daemon Blackfyre, amazingly good bloodline, really OP. Also Maelys the Monstrous, mid bloodline, has bad effects but they’re countered by good effects.
>Targs get Aerys II, one of the worst bloodlines in the game, worse than Walder Frey or any of the individual Bolton bloodlines.
After that you’ve got Jon+Rhaegar (both good but Aerys II more than cancels the strongest benefit of either, opinion boost, same for Aegon+Rhaegar), and Dany (really good)
Most strategic move is to be Aegon, declare Blackfyre heritage, get all the sweet Blackfyre bloodlines and lose Aerys’ shitty one (at the minor cost of losing Rhaegar’s good bloodline, but you gain Illyrio which is also good) and then breed Daenerys to just absorb the best post-Vizzy 2 bloodline.
On the obverse the most gimped dynasty are the Boltons, all Bolton bloodlines are really bad, people will be really racist to you because your ancestors are evil. You can save the world from zombies and the bloodline you get barely makes a dent in the handicaps put on you just for being named Bolton. Truly the hard mode of Westeros.

>>24707031
"I never win anything," Dolorous Edd complained. "The gods always smiled on Watt, though. When the wildlings knocked him off the Bridge of Skulls, somehow he landed in a nice deep pool of water. How lucky was that, missing all those rocks?"

"Was it a long fall?" Grenn wanted to know. "Did landing in the pool of water save his life?"

"No," said Dolorous Edd. "He was dead already, from that axe in his head. Still, it was pretty lucky, missing the rocks."

>>24713858
Forming opinions about the things you read is a very basic human thing. What type of automaton are you that you just consoooom without thinking about it at all?

Jon had plans. She’d be taken to Braavos by ship, on what meager coin Winterfell's coffers provided. Loyal men were few and far between, but he didn’t need a man's loyalty when he had their fear. They’d follow his command and escort her safe across the Narrow Sea. She’d be warm and fed and clothed and kept well away from the danger that loomed.

Arya shattered each and every meticulous idea he’d laid out the moment he set eyes on her again. Slight as she ever was, the barest curves to hint at a woman's body and hair tousled from the wind, sharp angles to her face and a sharper look to her eyes – until they found him.

The deep gray dashed to pieces any thought of sending her away. Feeling her body collide with his scattered those pieces so far he could never hope to find them again.

“Jon,” she sobbed, clutched in his arms. Cold nose against his neck, a warm beating heart pounding against his chest. His little sister, his most coveted treasure, finally returned to him, held as tightly in his arms as she should always be.

Jon bared his teeth at the eyes that had all turned towards them, stealing unwelcome into the precious moment. She was light as a feather to gather up in his arms. The eyes watched all the way to his chambers, until the bar latched closed, and they were alone.

“Jon,” she warbled again, and pulled away the barest inch – and seeing it again, her beautiful face, the familiar sharp Stark eyes and a hint of that beloved smile that had always been for him, his – no, Braavos would not be safe. Nor Lys, nor the Port of Ibben. Not even sitting in the gods own halls would she be safe enough.

No place but his own arms would be safe enough for her. Here, he could hold her, protect her. He’d ripped the Bastard to bloody pieces with these hands, and he’d do it to a hundred more men, a thousand, if it meant keeping this – the weighted warmth of her, the flush press of her body to his and arms like iron around his shoulders.

Burned fingers tangled in the softness of her hair, and he pulled her head back down to rest under his chin. He hushed her. “Arya.” He felt the smile that bloomed on her face, knew it like he always knew her. “Arya. Arya. Arya .”

“Jon. Jon.” Her breath brushed against his neck as she spoke it. “Don’t ever leave my side again.”

The girl in his arms trembled, lovely and alive and his. I love you. I missed you. I needed you.

“Not ever,” he swore. “Not ever.”

Apparently Isaac Newton was quite the Master of Coin (‘Master of the Mint’).

He had a network of competent spies and informants and used his superior intellect to execute (hanging and disemboweling) almost thirty people for counterfeiting (including a particularly infamous and masterful one) and went in disguise to bars and taverns and slums to rat them out. He interrogated people personally. He basically ended the currency issue (around a fifth of all currency was faked) in his country.

He was also a big dabbler in the occult.

>>24718254
Yeah he was a ruthless son of a bitch. The mercury in his hair probably made him even crazier/nastier.

>>24718254
>>24718256
then he lost all of his own money investing in a fake colony rugpull

>>24718260
I know it’s hilarious. They should make a movie out of this.

>>24718254
I do wonder if he inspired characters like Bloodraven.

Lately picked up all the Accursed Kings books except for the first one. I know nothing about them other than that they are fairly popular among European readers, and the French. They barely seem to have an audience here in English outside of being praised by GRRM which is why I got them. Has anyone here read them? They look pretty fun but I also get the feeling they are going to be boomer historical slop.

I've had an idea relating to Rhaego for a while now. Basically, he survives and fulfills the prophecy. Only he hates it and goes out of his way to stop it from being fulfilled. He's more of an Elric rip off than other targs in the sense that he's a much more tragic character.
Especially since he's more like his mother than anyone else. He wants to be the breaker of chains but is ultimately forced to forge them.
Also ties into another idea I have of the Valyrian empire making a return. With Rhaego being the one responsible for it. His story ends where Elric's began. Sitting on a throne made of iron instead of ruby. Not at all wanting to be there.

>>24719237
the targaryens are the stupidest part of the series. boring idiots

>>24705201
The first law books have become one of my favorites including the stand alones and sequels. I was recommended the audio books and tried them out. Stephen pacey is genuinely amazing and Elizabeth the books

>>24719237
I read Elric stories pretending Elric was the last of Old Valryia.

Why didn’t Jon just sell his magic sword to fund the nights watch?

>>24719680
:(
>>24719883
Sounds fun.
>>24720178
Too cool to sell.

Picked up a few Wild Cards books out of curiosity. Which ones are worth looking at? I got Suicide Kings, Ace in the Hole, Inside Straight, Fort Freak, and Dead Man's Hand. My only experience with this universe has been reading the short stories available in Dreamsongs.

>>24714014
Seen from a wildling perspective, Jon has already begun his courtship of Arya. Watching Jon send Mance Rayder to rescue her and steal her from the Boltons reminds me of what Ygritte (another mirror figure of Arya) says to Jon: "She is of my village. You know nothing, Jon Snow. A true man steals a woman from afar to strengthen the clan." Jon steals Arya from Ramsay, following the wildling custom of stealing one's wife. This takes on more meaning when we connect it to these thoughts Jon has about Arya in his last chapter: "I want my bride back... I want my bride back... I want my bride back..."

>>24720581
Lmao, nobody reads Wild Cards.

I have an idea for a story where the Elric type character protagonist (le tragic antihero badass who is part of some prophecy) just gets btfo and killed brutally by the dumb brute meathead Conan the barbarian type character, and it turns out the prophecy was bullshit all along. Maybe the Conan type character wields a giant war hammer and becomes king, just an absolute giga chad

>>24720862
write it now!

>>24720396
I'm sorry, that was mean. Write whatever you want

>>24720805
From a wildling perspective he is already married to Val since he captured her when Stannis routed them.

>>24720892
I’m pretty sure wildlings do not have any particular formalised monogamous customs or even durable marital bonds.

>>24720883
It's ok, i don't even think im equipped to write something like that anyway. Thank you for apologizing.

>>24720923
What were Mance and Dalla?

>>24720948
A couple.
This is the thing about wildlings. There are no weddings. There are no divorces. People just do whatever they want. Mance’s kingdom didn’t even have formalised fealty or vassalage. Wildling society is basically an unga bunga version of a union of egoists.
Woman stealing is more like a customary mating ritual than it is like a wedding.

STANNIS STANNIS

Hear me out on who gets the Twins at the end of the series.

The Blackwoods and the Brackens.

>>24718557
I read them. They were fun, plus, you actually learn some French and a bit of British history.
Dunno how good the translation is, I read them in French. They are an easy read, I was going at them like one a day or something.

A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf. "Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."

what do wildlings eat? how do they store food? I don't recall any granaries or silos being mentioned. what is mance's tax policy? what is the giant policy?

>>24720892
But Val was a coincidence, while his attempt to rescue Arya is an action Jon takes on his own (first with the help of Melissandre and Mance, and then on his own after breaking his vows after the pink slip), something that Martin clearly tinged with a "romantic" undertone. I don't know if Martin is still planning the romance between Jon and Arya, but from the first book to the last, he's been dropping hints about it.

>>24719237
Alternate asoiaf timelines would be so fucking cool, bros...

>>24721431
an AU where Maegor manages to have viable children but is still overthrown and killed anyway, and instead of the Dance of Dragons and Blackfyre Rebellions, the main dynastic Targaryen conflict is between the Aenysid and Maegorid branches of the house continuously vying for control

Call it boring but I think the most logical ending of the series involves a mass grayscale plague that sweeps across westeros. Either from the burning of Shireen, or from Jon in the south. Or possibly both. I don't think George would have their diseases and references to it be so prominent, and having all that shit with the shrouded Lord, just for nothing. The series is simply too short though to do it I think.

Anons, I've been looking for a long time for something interesting that would make me feel the same way when I read the spooky mystery and ancient history hints in ASOIAF and the other in-universe stories while not being from Lovecraft itself. Then I finally found what it: Hellboy's expanded universe comics.

>>24721222
I love Stannis so much
Imagine if we had more Stannis Baratheons in power IRL

>>24721889
>imagine if we had more filicide IRL

>>24722070
Renly totally deserved it though

This is the sigil of House Marbrand and I think it is them burning a weirwood

>>24722121
proof andals really caused the long night

Garlan Tyrell poisoned Joffrey right?
>RIGHT?

>>24721839
Booooring!

>>24721268
I hope the Blackwoods.

Le Blackwoods.

>>24721431
Thank you...someone gets it...

>>24705631
whore

THE BEAR THE BEAR

Will the Meera rape happen when Bran is inside Hodor’s body or Summer’s body?

>>24722671
yes

For me it's Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun.

I can’t get a read on this guy.
>I’m the left half of GRRMs face and I want to write great stories you like
>I’m the right half of GRRMs face and I want to vaccinate your children without your consent
Either way winds never

>>24712420
>>entire chapters dedicated to daenerys
They are mostly shit.

>>24722838
Jon best boy for looking after Wun Wun.

Guys I have a bad feeling that George is going to kick the bucket really soon. My intuition is rarely wrong

Bears eat meat like fish but they also eat berries. Blueberry, redberry, blackberries, it makes no difference, they eat berries as well.

>>24722838
Haha, but for me, it’s Mag the Fucking Mighty, King of the Giants.

>>24723482
If he croaks the chances of winds coming out unironically skyrocket. But the downside is any plot points people don't like will be dismissed as having not been written by him.

>>24723715
>Winds is posthumously released
>Its literally just a shot for shot novelisation of seasons 7 and 8
Would be kino

Satin’s coal black bush

Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?

>>24715115
So based. Good fetish fr

>Split Winds
>New book would be called A Time for Wolves, A Dream of Spring could still be the final and eight book in the series
>Do a time skip in between Winds and A Time for Wolves ending Winds with the wall coming down and The Others spreading desolation all across Westeros
let's say a decade or so passes in between books, that way it can still be a generational saga like GRRM wanted with characters dealing with the responsibilities of previous generations left for them but also a fast track on characters getting to where GRRM wants them to be while feeling the full effects of winter and whatever carnage and destruction is associated with the new Long Night
>Start Wolves with key characters like Aegon, Jaime, Bran, Sam, and whoever coming together formulating some sort of plan on how to fight back The Others while also dealing with Daenerys invasion of Westeros both happening around the same time

Would this have been a good idea?

>>24723816
Nimble Dick, Septon Meribald, Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse and Osha

>>24723864
>key characters
>Aegon

I remember when i frequently saw people talking about Arianne when i started asoif and got really curious about what people liked so much about her. In the end she was just another dumb cumdump whore, did i miss something?

>>24723864
Why is George so obsessed with the idea of ending the series in two bookswhen he's such a bad planner and that obviously won't work?

>>24723864
Years ago I recommended breaking Winds. Everyone got all up my ass about that. Life stinks sometimes.

>>24723926

I really feel like it's the best solution at this point.

>>24723881

Don't forget Ned Dayne, Jayne Poole, or the ever humble Hot Pie but what about Podric Payne.

For real though I feel like Podric is probably going to wind up on the throne just because I see a lot of similarities with him and Egg and he would be the most surprising candidate.

>>24723926

I really feel like it's the best option at this point I understand Winds is going to be huge but does it really need to be 1300 or so pages like GRRM has been hyping it up to be.

>>24723903
She is utterly hopeless.

Anon, do you ever dream of being a blue blooded asshole sneering at peasants?

If you could be born to any Great House - or some equivalent high status family in some Free City or the like in the east - in any year between 1AC to 299, what year would it be? Male or female? Straight or gay?

>>24723881
>Nimble Dick, Septon Meribald, Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse

>>24705201
The Darkness That Comes Before

>>24723864
>key characters like Aegon
lol, nigga will be lucky to make it to the end of winds. I saw some guys outline for winds and it was pretty good at fitting most stuff in the book. There definitely needs to be another books in between unless GRRM goes back to AGOT pacing

Basically the best place to end Winds would be kinda how Season 6 ended.
>Jon has control of the North
>Pretender on the Throne
>Dany sailing/ or Landing in in Dragonstone

Imo I don’t think you can have The Others destroy the wall by the end of Winds since they’d just win. Unless GRRM plans to use time travel to solve the issue.

>>24724697
I think GRRM is planning on having Euron bring down the wall with the horn and then having Bran time travel to save Theon and thereby prevent Euron from ever becoming king.

A GREY GIRL ON A DYING HORSE. DAGGERS IN THE DARK. A PROMISED PRINCE, BORN IN SMOKE AND SALT.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

yo yo yoooo! its the morning throners!
new episode!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlGcpLAYDR0

Has this been refuted yet?

>>24725077
That satanic motherfucker ruled for six years and sixty six days.

>>24723903
>did i miss something?
No.

>>24725077
>all the sources on a fictional event are wrong because being a contrarian makes my clitty leak
no, no one has or can refute that

So let's say Tywin gets the throne after Jaime kills Aerys. How do events unfold from here on out. Who does Tywin marry, who does he name his name, and place in charge of Casterly Rock, what's his relationship with the north like.

>>24725433
Tower fingers wrote this post

>>24726072
>REEEE I HATE THE HIGHTOWERS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT WHITE CHRISTIANS
We get it jewanon, you’re very very Jewish, you don’t need to shit up every thread

>>24726075
>THEY REPRESENT WHITE CHRISTIANS

>>24726087
>posts white Christian characters laughing
I don’t get it

What the fuck is the point of this character
What does the greyjoy POV add to the story anyways?

>>24726108
he's based

>>24726108
Azor ahai reborn

>>24726119
Ok?
Theon and any of the other greyjoys stories is basically the telling of some fucking minor raiding house

Might as well have the Pov of the clansman or the Pov Of Lem Lemoncloak

I don't understand what they add to the story that can't be written as
>Oh ye, Greyjoys over there did that
All of it seems like filler added to make the story less dull because
>Look at these wacky pirates