Thread 24786295

is this book worth reading as someone who is mostly interested in learning more about CIA/MKUltra tom-foolery in the 60s and doesn't particularly enjoy polluting his brain with true crime slop?

i am also somewhat skeptical that i will learn anything particularly eye opening from a book that was relentlessly shilled by all forms of mainstream media, and who's film rights were bought by netflix.

am i wasting my time with boomer slop?

>>24786295 (OP)
It's good but doesn't really do much besides give you the information so that you can draw your own conclusions/do your own research.
>i am also somewhat skeptical that i will learn anything particularly eye opening from a book that was relentlessly shilled by all forms of mainstream media, and who's film rights were bought by netflix.
This is the correct mindset to have when going into it. It's good but lacks conviction.

>>24786369
lmao
"this book bad cause it didn't tell me what to think or directly confirm my preexisting worldview"

>>24786295 (OP)
>who's film rights were bought by netflix
The film was directed by Errol Morris, who made Wormwood. Don't be a pleb

>>24786295 (OP)
It details that Manson and his girls was visiting a San Fran hippy clinic ran by notorious CIA MKUTLRA doc Jolly West, who was the shrink that diagnosed Jack Rubys psychosis while he was awaiting giving testimony before the Warren commission. He also gave an elephant so much LSD it OD'd and died, and a little girl got raped and killed by US soldier outside of a military base West was stationed at the time, with the soldier having no recall of having done it. O'Neil heavily implies that West was a researcher trying to produce methods to create Manchurian candidates and that he gave Jack Ruby a mind-melting amount of LSD, tampering with the key remaining witness in the JFK assassination. O'neil also further implies along with everyone else that Manson must have been given drug based cult training while in prison. He basically immediately started his operation upon being released.

He also debunks the Helter Skelter theory of the murders/trial and demonstrates that Vincent Bugliosi was a piece of shit.

>>24786414
Also, Manson violated his parole so often that it made zero sense that he wasn't sent back to jail while running drugs and having hippy drug addicts killing people.

>>24786295 (OP)
>am i wasting my time with boomer slop?
If you want a more schizo, broad spectrum version of this book, check out Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon. I wouldn't call Chaos a waste of time or a bad book, the editorial passages giving you a firsthand account of a liberal boomer slowly going down the rabbit hole make the book worth it on their own.

>>24786656
>if you want a version that has less facts and way more /x/ tier speculation

>>24786665
Yeah pretty much. To McGowan's credit, he presents facts (some of them better researched than other) and leaves their interpretation open to the reader, but it's clear he's driving at something much more conspiratorial than O'Neill.

>>24786656
>McGowan

to be honest i want to read his stuff at some point but not before becoming more acquainted with the topics he wrote about. diving into him without having some kind of background in what he wrote about just sounds like a recipe for confusing yourself so badly you end up like alex jones.

>>24786701
just be prudent and try to independently verify what you read before believing it.

>>24786295 (OP)
The mid-to-late 60s is such a fascinating period

>>24786682
>something much more conspiratorial than O'Neill
What O'Neill suggests is much more Kafkaesque and opaque than McGowan, though. McGowan essentially asserts that the nexus of all these evil doings in Hollywood shares the same purview of individuals that are in big business and Hollywood, and they're all satanists involved in child sex trafficking. O'Neill suggests some of that, but the implication is a lot more that MKULTRA and the Manson fiasco was more a result of field experiment-operations that the CIA were continuously running in the '50s & '60s, particularly in the Los Angeles area. The occult doesn't factor in so much into Chaos. A good book to read that connects both is The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry.

>>24788065
>big business and Hollywood
*Meant to say, Hollywood, big business, and Washington.

>>24786295 (OP)
Other than this and the McGowan one, are there more books tackling counterculture and conspiracy-related themes?

>>24788861
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1595589147
is one
covers more modern art/litearture

>>24788861
EMJ doesn't really cover it specifically but many of his books cover it (but they cover much larger spans of time, fairly)
I don't think you can really understand the 60s apart from all the earlier rockefeller/birth control and population control stuff that went on much earlier on in the 20th century, as well as similar stuff going on in earlier centuries and even earlier culture war stuff like the french revolution and kulturkampf stuff in prussia.

>>24788893
>rockefeller/birth control and population control stuff that went on much earlier on in the 20th century

nta but ive been really wanting to learn more about famous industrialist families like the rockerfellers and duponts, (especially the duponts to be honest because the little i do know about them makes them seem like they were/are comically evil.) do you know of any books that go into detail about their war profiteering in ww1, their material support of hitler and rearmament of the third reich, their involvement in the business plot, or even their relationship with the biden family?

any book that goes into detail about famous industrialist families really, but especially anything that covers those topics i listed above.

>>24786376
Are you retarded? I said it was a good book. It just lacks an actual conclusion.
>draw your own conclusions
Isn't a satisfactory ending, and is actively lazy. Although I recommend that you draw your own conclusion and rope yourself.

>>24786665
>way more /x/ tier speculation
that makes it even better

>>24786656
>> Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon
Finally read this after all the hype. Utterly terrible lowest level conspiracy shit that makes no effort - literally numerology for large sections.
> Do you know who else was in the 27 club? the bassist from a literal who band that someone actually famous was in for a year - oh by the way their albums had satanic imagery
> Famous person died on date X the same day the producer of the second album of random band did exactly one year to the day
> Isn't it odd how many of these teenagers from a military town had fathers that served in the military
At no point did he present an actual relationship between events, individuals, or any kind of narrative, or plot, or whatever. He just kept pointing out when dates repeated and that these bands liked to invoke satanic imagery and highlighted when a dozen of the tens of thousands of people connected to the music industry around that time had an uncle who worked in intelligence during ww2.

>>24786295 (OP)
Chaos is actually good - he firmly connects MKUltra psychiatrists to being in places where Manson was at the same time and how Manson was repeatedly let off by police leading up to the killings and brings in professionals including judges and law enforcement staff from that era who go on the record to say that the light touch and endless second chances Manson got fly in the face of standard practice.

>>24786295 (OP)
Just so we're all clear, Adam did not read that book.

>>24786295 (OP)
imo the netflix movie didn’t cover the interesting parts of the book

>>24786414
they could mass-program charlie mansons using just the televsion now if they really wanted to.
https://www.brighteon.com/7967749f-dfc1-4f4b-bec5-be2d0594ba03

>>24786295 (OP)
>mind control

>>24789702
They use social media now, granddad.

bump

>>24788861
Dope inc.

>>24786295 (OP)
>is this book worth reading as someone who is mostly interested in learning more about CIA/MKUltra tom-foolery in the 60s and doesn't particularly enjoy polluting his brain with true crime slop?
Yes. You'll be less interested in the initial attempts to get to the bottom of the Manson killings themselves, but then when he starts unraveling the CIA thread it gets directly into your area of interest.

>>24786423
So many crimes they got off on its absolutely wild.

>>24791766
checked. nta but downloaded. thanks. looks good.

I'm currently reading this one. What are the main complains about it ?

>>24794558
The main complaint is that Bugliosi completely fucking made it up, he invented the Helter Skelter theory to be able to convict Manson (or for some darker reason) and then wrote the book to capitalize on his fame + reinforce his claims so he wouldn't get called on it later. This is shown in Chaos by his reactions to O'Neill questioning the hypothesis and then finding contrary evidence, he goes absolutely fucking bananas.

>>24788956
The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben

>>24794783
thank you for the rec, just ordered a copy off of ebay. i just finished the coming of the third reich so it actually ties in perfectly with that book.

>>24789679

> Do you know who else was in the 27 club? the bassist from a literal who band that someone actually famous was in for a year - oh by the way their albums had satanic imagery
> Famous person died on date X the same day the producer of the second album of random band did exactly one year to the day
> Isn't it odd how many of these teenagers from a military town had fathers that served in the military
Programmed to Kill is largely the same despite how much it gets shilled here and on reddit.

Is Eye of the Chickenhawk any good?

>>24795097
Everytime I order it it gets lost in the mail. Somebody doesn't want me to read it.

>>24795105
>>24795097
its on z-library and yes it's very good i would highly recommend it. the 2nd half falls apart a little bit but redeems itself at the end with the section about mark dutroux and the finders cult. it's more or less what got me extremely interested in the CIA / mkultra / and operation gladio.

Bump
Reading generally about Epstein Stuff. Many such cases. Some things never change.