Thread 24815359

>want to pick up a copy of ol ozzy's decline of the west
>every copy on amazon is just a weird reprint of a photocopy with people saying it's low quality, a print on demand garbage book, or a $300 used hardcover
It's like this with half the books I want to read, is this just an amazon sorting issue or are older public domain books just impossible to get good copies of? It's the same with trying to find good editions of wodehouse.

Stop aiding the jewish globohomo ZOG by using amazon. Buy local or from small companies.

>>24815368
All I can afford is ZOG.

>>24815368
I don't really know where in my city to buy books like this. All the bookshops are either used (random selection) or only stock romantasy and top 1000

>>24815371
if you were really fighting with money, youd read a pdf.

>>24815359 (OP)
I’m having the same problem. Does anyone have a link to the best version?

Multi-volume schizo ramblings are best read in an abridged edition

>>24815373
You can ask the staff at a book store to order a specific book directly to the editorial.

>>24815359 (OP)
Theres literally an Arktos version that got released a few years ago. Are you retarded?

What's a non/pol/ version of this book?

According to this dude we should be in the age of empire kings by now. Whats taking so long

>>24815493
Trump is an empire king, as is Xi, and maybe Putin.

>>24815496
>maybe putin
lol!

>>24815497
He's been ruling russia for 30 years with an iron hand. There are no signs of change.

>>24815493
uhm, sweetie, did you not take part in your local "No Kings" rally this weekend?
We literally have a tyrant king who is acting like a dictator right now.

>>24815493
He didn't envision how fake and gay it would be.

Great book, I hope you'll enjoy the ride

get help man. you're deeply wounded and sick. twisted. lost.
>It's like this with half the books I want to read
read a pokemon strategy guide man. learn about evs

>>24815502
can you please refrain from deadnaming the No Tyrants movement? Kings are ok when they are Our Allies, because Our Allies are necessary for Our Democracy

>>24815622
Huh?

>>24815492
There isn't one

>>24815538
Its going to get alot worse, hold on

>>24815359 (OP)
I can't help you when it comes to a physical copy but digital versions are easy to come across.
If you really want one you should go to a dedicated chudlit publishing house like arktos. As he says >>24815480
>>24815463
Idk if the best version but just search for a PDF and you'll find them.
>>24815492
Doesn't exist. But you'll be pleased to hear he is a surprisingly non-/pol/ author for early 20th century German conservatism standards. He was barely even anti-semitic.
>>24815493
We are, wdym? Just a different configuration from what you expected. Also Caesarism takes time, doesn't just come from thin air, it is a process.
>>24815496
Putin is the chief of a Pre-cultural confederation on the verge of being a culture. Xi is the latest in a long line of wise Fellaheen emperors carrying on the tradition of China until the sun explodes.

>>24817938
Russia's eventually becoming a high culture btw.

>>24818340
Isn't their population collapsing

>>24818340
>Russia's eventually becoming a high culture btw.
https://youtu.be/ueNY30Cs8Lk

>>24818340
India of Europe

>>24818340
This already happened (1917-1991)

>>24818530
> Isn't their population collapsing
They just gained 1.5-2 million people from the annexation of the 4 oblasts including two large cities in Donetsk and Luhansk. By the time the SMO is over we can expect them to gain many more people as well including the population of Odessa, Kharkov, Sumy and Chernigov.

>>24818530
>>24818656
they get regular BBC deliveries, they'll be fine

>>24818664
The African population of Russia is between 30-70k, or only about 0.02%- 0.05% of their total population

>>24818530
No, is the simple answer. If they are then every other population besides India is collapsing far faster, white European birth-rates worldwide have entered irreversible decline and are lower than the Japanese. And it isn't just globohomo as Best Korea's is collapsing as fast as Worst Korea

>>24818530
Collapsing is a hard word, but Birthrates are on the downward worldwide due to contraceptives. Things will go back to their natural way once they are phased out.
>>24818619
Rome was the India of Europe actually. Had it live don it would be just Mediterranean India.
>>24818647
I disagree. Unremarkable imported architecture, a large void in literature and the arts in general, supression of religion, politically hybrid between bolsheviks and and generic tribal strongmen. Optimism was replaced by societal hollowness and malaise. But the period did birth the Ukraine as a semi-distinct 'Russian' nation, give us Stalin, and birth the Great patriotic war.
So still a pre-cultural stage of Russia.

>>24819523
Readily availiable contraception is basically a side effect of 'Globo-Homo' if we define the term in a non tendentious ways. Then again the massively inflated global population is also a side effect of unchallenged western world hegemony.

>>24815492
From Dawn to Decadence - Jacques Barzun

>>24815492
He’s surprisingly very non/pol/ and I’m convinced that most /pol/tards that namedrop Spengler haven’t even read him.

>>24815492
Oswald wasn't impressed with Hitler honestly despite (allegedly) voting for him. I suggest you try and learn this through actually reading the history of the Conservative Revolution instead of relying on hamfisted /leftypol/ interpretations.

>>24820377
Tbh him ragging on Hitler may have been sour grapes after he basically snubbed him. He wasn't the type to be a Die-Hard hypernazi though.

I want to learn how to do fancy bookbinding to make my own copies of expensive out of print books. I'm retarded though.

>>24819523
the answer has been, and always will be, women's liberation.

>>24820437
Ah yes the notoriously gender egalitarian country of Brunei. If only it was a fundamentalist religious monarchy it would have a TFR of 5 I bet.
TFR is directly correlated with availability of contraceptive methods.

>>24815492
There isn't one.

The most important idea in Spengler (and not by accident the first one he develops in depth) is that the society, law, institutions, etc, are all just holograms of the publics mind/volksgheist etc etc (best example is the mathematics chapter.)

He gets this from Le Bon who probably got it from somewhere else (like Taine who got it from Vico I imagine, and who I haven't yet had the chance to read, but I suspect this is the origin).

Anyway, this is a fundamentally, foundationally conservative idea and in fact the actual bedrock of conservatism itself and from which all the other conclusions of conservatism spring.

So no, there is not a lefty version. It's simply not possible. Conservatives reject the project of the French revolution and what it tried to do, lefties embrace it.

A committee loving lefty simply cannot draw the same conclusions or follow the same lines of thought as Spengler. It wouldn't make any sense. It would be retarded, extremely so.

>>24820462
People in his time where very aware of this, iirc Spengler debated Max Weber once. Shortly before Weber passed away.

>>24815359 (OP)
Tibet was/is a High Culture btw.

you guys did research and read every single literary reference mentioned by spengler in decline of the west, right?

This dude got BTFO by Toynbee.
>Hindu civilization: merged
>Far East civilization: merged
Only the merger of Islamic civilization remains, and then the Western civilization is saved.

>>24820916
The ones not rendered using jank early 20th century spellings no one uses anymore.

>>24820928
Bootleg Spengler without any of the ability to make the philosophy land. Too many physics envy categorizations, focus on religion is retarded. English/10

>>24820939
I'm sorry you have Anglophobia.

>>24815493
Did’t he predict that it would be about 200 years from when he was writing Decline? We’re still a century away but everything seems to be indicating that he was right. Even today the technocrats have more wealth and power than anyone has had in the known history of humanity, and in a lot of cases governments do their biddings but they don’t have absolute power yet. This will change when either the technocrats become presidents or when they become so powerful that governments can’t do nothing but bend the knee, and it will happen.

Ze West has truly declined if men refuse to read because the book isnt pwetty

>>24821151
Pwetty isn't the same as readable and not a photocopy

>>24820951
Go back to classifying different types of shellfish, Sir Raymond Trembly the VIIth.

>>24821810
Anglos rule the world. NTA btw.

>>24820928
Toynbee is boring to read

>>24815359 (OP)
I got the original hardcovers on ebay for like 50-60 bucks not too long ago. Just keep searching on ebay.

>>24815359 (OP)
It's been out of print in English for many years. It's a dense, recondite, book with a niche audience. That kind of thing tends to be expensive.

>>24820939
>>24821810
I'm not even Anglo (irish / french / italian) but whining about them is the most spiritually Indian shit in the world

>>24821816
gaze ye upon the fruits!

>>24821816
And? Them ruling the world doesn't make them good at history.
>>24822605
They have their good things. It's just that they have some inborn tendencies that don't allow for very good philosophy of history. Every people has its limits.
While I'm neither, German and English intelects have been at odds for a long time. at least since the 19th century.

>>24820603
very cool!
will check out the debate, ty knower anon

>>24823477
It was never written down iirc.

>>24821816
Indians rules over anglos

>>24823665
It's a shame, really. It was in a townhall over politics.

>>24821142
Yeah. Though the Caesarism epochs started around 2000 according to him. Caesarism means that raw power and allegiance to specific men begins to displace money and institutions. I believe we are seeing very early versions of it right now. Mostly by you know who, but also elsewhere in Western Europe where the bureaucracies and oligarchs are better entrenched.

>>24824999
Dude the entire Europe, Western or Eastern (the only difference being that the latter is colonized entirely by the former, and the former is colonized by various levels of international power) has been ruled by the same people and their families for 100 years+. The "Caesar" is just a shitty colonial governor that's there only to lie and extract resources.

>>24820928
Toynbee was deliberately suppressed by the establishment after WW2 because he was too redpilled. His one great follower was Kissinger of course

>>24825049
Why are you even in this thread if you have not read the fucking book. If you are just going to peddle your own thing start your own thread.
Though wait a bit I will adress your actual points in a few hours.

>>24825088
Because I live in reality.

>>24825119
You live with a dick up your ass.
You should at least engage with the book, if you are going to enter the thread to peddle your things.
In >>24825049 you think ' The "Caesar"' is a guy, not a process. You don't know what that process is. You ignore that these families are subject to decay and entropy just like everything else, that the important patrician lineages of Augustus' time were all extinct or irrelevant two hundred years after his reign. You think Western Europe is colonized by 'international power', from which metropolis, you fucking idiot? Your ideas are simple and undeveloped.
You are sixteen, retarded, and a faggot.

>>24825552
Doesn't help me to get a job vs a Nepalese immigrant subsidized by very specific families getting money from very specific EU entities that have been developed by other very specific families.

>>24825563
Ok. This thread is not about you getting a Job.

>>24824999
Trump has been called a Caesar for years by now, but i think he's more of a Pompey than anything. He's a vanguard of what the caesarist regime will look like, but he's still playing the old game, he still wants to keep the reigns of power in the hands of the democratic institutions, a reformer of the old rather than a trendsetter of the new.

>>24822605
>>24823737
Lmao and there it is

>>24825686
Caesarism is not a regime, nor a guy. It's transition from money power (Law, institutions, Mass media) to raw power (violence, mobs, open corruption). People calling Trump Caesar are retarded, in my opinion. However, the amount of worship Trump gets is evidence of Caesarism. The Party ceases to be important in favour of the Man.

>>24822673
By the way, german and English intellectuals kind of disliked eachother in the 19th century. Famously. Nietzsche has passages about respectable but mediocre englishmen - citing Darwin, Stuart Mill, Herbert Spencer. And Carlyle wrote Sartor Resartus to clown on the Germans idealists. To give two examples. But pf course anyone who points this out is from Punjab because calling things you don't like Indian is all the rage on the sorority house to day.

>>24825789
>from Punjab because calling things you don't like Indian is all the rage on the sorority house to day.
...

>>24825882
I am Indian, Good Morning.
I have shit in the mouth of five white women and stolen 30 tech jobs today.

>>24825900
Just remember to drive safe saar...

>>24825686
It’s perfectly obvious for a huge variety of reasons the Elon is the real Caesar candidate.

>>24826040
Explain youraelf.

>>24826047
Please pretty please

>>24826040
If you said Thiel i'd believe you, but Musk genuinely seems like he's retarded and autistic, no chance he's some grey eminence pulling the strings from behind the throne

>>24826040
lmao maybe his sons, Musk is too stupid and weak willed to be a Caesar figure.

>>24826249
Barcode children will do nothing.

>>24815359 (OP)
does such desire for a material copy make OP a materialist?

>>24820928
errrr isn't western civilisation the merge between islamic (judaic) and greco-roman civilisation?

>>24826175
Do you remember that video where he was standing next to trump in the oval office and musk's kid who was there for some reason flat out said to trump's face something like "you're not in charge" or something like that?

>>24828422
I'm gonna pop a vessel if i hear some kosher right talking head mention "judeo-christian values"

>>24829236
Trvthnvke. Western Civilization was never Judeo-Christian, it is and has always been Gallo-Roman Germanic.

>>24818340
most delusional post on 4chan currently

>>24820462
>that the society, law, institutions, etc, are all just holograms of the publics mind/volksgheist etc etc (best example is the mathematics chapter.)

Marx's interpretation makes far more sense to me

>>24815368
Local book stores are almost always owned and operated by liberal women. Giving Bezos money is the better option.

>>24826047
A Caesar delivers spectacular victories and captures the public consciousness with them. Musk does this. This inspires something very different than what trump inspires in his base.

Trump is merely extremely (almost unbelievably I grant you) resilient, which has allowed various political have-not groups to accrete in his orbit that were hitherto successfully repressed. This is not a Caesar.

A Caesar has no need of people who say “that guy! Finally a guy who advocates for people like me!”, he has no need of people who say “that guy… at least he’s not the other guy!”, nor does he need the “well he’ll make things easier for our sort later on…” types. These are things a politician needs.

A Caesar needs only one thing: Belief.

>>24829370
I'm sorry but modern West is well past the age Caesarism can occur. We have to keep in mind Caesar was born during the times the Roman Republic was still a thing, the Roman Republic I say, this marvellous government created by ancient Latin genius. This was a time in wich things were still kind of in order. A time in wich the Latin people, if not completely homogenous, still pretended like they were. If the old Republican form was, after so many Centuries, abolished, it was done either in favour or in reaction to a growing movement of progressivism; a movement wich, however, during the days of Caesar, had yet not even managed to rip the traditional Roman government apart, the best government Rome has ever had and wich, under Caesar, had to go in order to suit the needs of plebs and foreign immigrants (or in order to prevent them from usurping too much power).
Us, the modern Westerners, we no longer live in the last days of stable, traditional government. We live in the unhappy Late Imperial Age, the times in wich governmental form has already changed many times, the time where everything has been abolished and in wich the immigrants have become an integral part of it.
Caesarism has already happened; at best, Napoleon may be called Europe's Napoleon, he usurped power right after the abolition of traditional feudal government.

>>24829405
Why bother engaging with a thread about spengler if you've never read him?

>>24829564
Is that all your peanut brain could cum up with? Then my reply is correct.

>>24829564
Not the op but I'll bite.
It's because I read the novel about it playing a major part in a coup in a fictional African country in the 60s and I'm desperately trying to get other people to read it so they can agree with my opinions about it.

It's a wild read though it's about a French fascist in the 60s who gets betrayed by the cowardly ideologues who tricked him into Africa in the first place. He has a couple cool rants about bugmen in Asia and he drags his thick ass copy of spengler all through the bush with him. It's like a much more political Dogs Of War by Forsythe. It's by David Caute.

>>24829281
Ukraine is part of 'Russia' in this context. Maybe even Central Asia.
Also Spengy said so.
>>24829642
Title?
Though imo you should read the actual book. Almost guaranteed to enhance your experience. Because now you know what Uber-chud is babbling about.

>>24829742
Decline of the West.
Yeah I feel like the ending might hit harder for someone whose read the whole philosophical underpinning but I enjoyed it nonetheless it's not overly on about theory it's just as much about torturing Africans who think they want independence. But hey from what I can glean that's what spengler was really writing about.
Either way unless you're really vibing with this author's style id recommend skipping all the Jason chapters they just exist so the author can bring up the new hot button issue of his day, civil disobedience to segregation in the south. Well that and hamfist in some musings about westernized blacks and native Africans.

>>24829755
>But hey from what I can glean that's what spengler was really writing about.
Not really. Disregarding the last section in the hour of decision + Man and Technics (Which were more about fearing the colored world would recover from their state at the time and strike back against the white one).
Decline itself contains a lot more art criticism than it does stereotypical chuddisms.

Aside from that, the MC sounds like a chimera between the proto Nouvelle-Droite and the OAS.

>>24829907
Yeah the initial conflict driving him to Africa was the failed Algiers putsch, he's an interesting mc I'm sure there's plenty of real world analogues to a teenaged stalinist turned mid thirties French ultra with a French wife and a Vietnamese mistress and kid he's never going to see again because he's dedicated his life to keeping west Africa Western.

>>24829370
> Musk does this.
For example? What Victories has he delivered? To whom?

Caesarism is the stage in which institutional and symbolic forms become impoverished and stripped of meaning. Replaced by mere factual power. Every Culture has it's very own Caesar-form. In the Magian world, this was the sultante. In China it was Qin Shi Huang and the Han emperors.
They don't need necessarily popular support.

Spengler defines the term as such:
>By the term "Caesarism" I mean that kind of government which, irrespective of any constitutional formulation that it may have, is in its inward self a return to thorough formlessness.

>>24830071
>what victories?
Are you dumb?

I’m sorry anon, I really don’t have time for the kind of conversation I can see this becoming.

>>24815359 (OP)
I had the same problem on amazon. Eventually I went to ebay and bought an old Folio Society hardcover for $20.

>>24829405
>>24829584
>Then my reply is correct.
You haven't read Spengler and don't understand the words you're typing, dumbass.
"Caesarism" doesn't refer to Gaius Julius Caesar, but the prolonged period of history where Roman Emperors (titled Caesar, as in 'The Twelve Caesars" by Suetonius) were in power. It's not predicated on a single individual.
The real front-running Caesar-man wasn't even Julius in Spengler's analogies, but Octavian. He's the person Spengler compares alongside men like Alp Arslan and Qin Shi Huangdi (personally, I think Emperor Gaozu and the Han are a better choice).
>We live in the unhappy Late Imperial Age, the times in wich governmental form has already changed many times, the time where everything has been abolished and in wich the immigrants have become an integral part of it.
Not even close.

>>24830301
I guess? I seriously don't know what victories you are talking about. That he allows you to say Nigger in his social media platform? What he did was comparable to buying a newspaper (the common expression of Faustian democracy in Spengler's time, as you know).
For what he little he is, Trump is corroding the forms and institutions to his benefit. He has an actual coalition of supporters united only in following him.

>>24830386
But credit where credit is due. Musk is not an unlikely candidate to follow in Trump's footsteps, you are right in that. The businessman is the caesar-type of Faustian culture.

>>24830302
Which one? Link? All I see on Ebay is some Indian made leather bound editions that probably have garbled AI shit inside.

>>24830369
Yes, Octavian opened the age of Caesarism because he secularized the Roman government, and whence the republican government by many heads was replaced by the Imperial system. Europe has already been through those stages. The age of Caesarism is no else a period where the virile element of the society establishes an authoritarian government in order to gain momentum and secure, at least temporarily, it's rule over the degenerates who have become too numerous to tolerate democratic government (like was the case in the Roman Republic).
Both Octavian and Caesar were prime men of their race (l'homme de race par excellence). But soon Emperors appeared who were no longer natives to the Latium, in the same way the US had a Afro Emperor, and the two "conservatives", Vance and Trump, can barely be considered native Anglo-Saxons. Neither do they have any loyalty to their race. They no longer dream of the eternal archontat.
We are in the Late Imperial age, where even the Emperors themselves are total degenerates too.

>>24830428
>Octavian opened the age of Caesarism because he secularized the Roman government
No he did not.

>>24830428
>whence the republican government by many heads was replaced by the Imperial system
This is also not true, public offices were still temporal and voting for Caesars, even if their parents were Augusti, still had confirmations up through the 3rd and most of the 4th century AD.

>>24830433
Yes he did, and a couple generations later, atheism and vain theism became the norm on Roman territory. In fact many authors have considered Augustus to have been "the last man" on Roman territory.
>>24830434
All Emperors after the barrack Emperors were not Caesars, they were not great men, they were abortions, rightfully crushed on their ridiculous throne by the invading barbarians.

>>24830428
Octavian did not do any of that. Stop listening pop history podcasts.

>>24830439
> The city of Rome was utterly transformed under Augustus, with Rome's first institutionalized police force, firefighting force, and the establishment of the municipal prefect as a permanent office
Hmmm ahhh yeah, the establishment of government subsidized police and fire fighting force, great things about to come to us in the new Caesarian era. Vae Victis, our greatest day are about to come. We are sooooo VIRILE

>>24830433
Didn't he get deified shortly after his death? That does not sound like a secular ruler. He was also Pontifex Maximus iirc.
>>24830436
>All Emperors after the barrack Emperors were not Caesars,
Correct. They were Caliphs. From Diocletian onwards the Arabian spirit overtook what remained of the Greek and puppeteered it. Then the dregs of Apollonian civilization were crushed by the Germanics (though some still remain in France, Spain, Italy) while the middle east thrived onward.

>>24830452
> They were Caliphs
They were fat degenerate gluttons, trying to please the needs of the population in the fashion of retarded capitalocratic populists. Inherently meek, multicultural, cowardly and retarded and pleasing the needs of a population without religion, without morale, without ideas and without identity.

>>24830436
>atheism and vain theism became the norm on Roman territory. In fact many authors have considered Augustus to have been "the last man" on Roman territory.
Pagan shrines in the very senate remained until Gratianus had them removed at the urging of Pope Damasus in the middle 4th century AD. It is not until Theodosius that the traditional iconography and ritual sites are removed wholesale.
>>24830436
>All Emperors after the barrack Emperors were not Caesars
Nearly agreeable. Julian and Diocletian were good.
>>24830452
>Didn't he get deified shortly after his death
So did Jesus.