Thread 24844887

Which do you prefer

>>24844887 (OP)
Baudelaire obviously. Rimbaud is one of the most overrated poets of all time.

>>24844887 (OP)
the one who subjugated natives in africa, not the one who got his asshole subjugated

>>24844887 (OP)
What is the best translation of Illuminations?
What else should I check out by Baudelaire other than his two anthologies?

>>24844893
Poetry is fucking gay anyway.

>Ah ! race d’Abel, ta charogne
>Engraissera le sol fumant !

>Race de Caïn, ta besogne
>N’est pas faite suffisamment ;

>Race d’Abel, voici ta honte :
>Le fer est vaincu par l’épieu !

>Race de Caïn, au ciel monte
>Et sur la terre jette Dieu !
Based!

>>24844887 (OP)
They're both great, but Baudelaire is really something special. I think the development of poetry would look more or less the same without Rimbaud, but I'm not sure that's the case for Baudelaire.

>>24844887 (OP)
Mallarmé

>>24844923
>Poetry is fucking gay
Just like Rimbaud.

>>24845135
he is the least gay frenchman

>>24844931
holy based

baudelaire, and it's not even fucking close.

>>24844913
cant help you,i read them in french.
rare win for the ESL bros.

Mallarmé > Rimbaud > Baudelaire
Baudelaire is just the easiest to translate, hence why anglos usually pick him. He is the weakest of the lot by far. Mallarmé reigns supreme though and thats not debatable.
>>24844966
It’s literally the other way around. Baudelaire’s influence on poetry is marginal next to Rimbaud’s. Les Fleurs du Mal was published AFTER Leaves of Grass btw, tells you how dusty Baudelaire’s stuff was.

oh and btw : Verlaine’s poetics still are, to this day, a LOT fresher than Baudelaire’s, but you guys aren’t ready for that conversation yet. Baudelaire is a modern in tone only.

Love Rimbaud - After the Flood is my favourite poem by any writer. I feel like our imaginations work in similar ways (mine far inferior ofc). I love the scope of his world, the hotels amid the polar ice, his Gaulish ancestors getting beaten up in the ancient forests, but it never feels epic and grandiose, it feels a fleeting glimpse of something bright and exhilarating, arctic breeze on your face.

Baudelaire I like in theory but found harder to get into. I think he's spoken about as a poet of 'sensations', as if a poem of his is a little draught of something intoxicating that slips into you and overwhelms you, but for me the poems evoke the more detached 'aesthetic' feeling of looking at a fixed tableau, an ornate object or gothic ruin or crime scene photo, which I have to contemplate and explore. Very cool in its own way, but also very different from the breezy immediacy of Rimbaud.

Mallarmé didn't write that much

homosex with Rimbaud

>>24846367
Basé et rougepillé

>>24844923
It's not meant to be read by non-white men like (You).

19th century French poetry is unparalleled, isn't it?
>Victor Hugo
>Stéphane Mallarmé
>Arthur Rimbaud
>Paul Verlaine
>Charles Baudelaire
>Gérard de Nerval
>Aloysius Bertrand
>Jules Laforgue
>Maurice de Guérin
There's probably a few more I can't remember right now.

>>24847577
18th century anglo poetry beats it

>>24848030
English poetry was born and died under Elizabeth

>>24847577
Sad you missed this absolute Chad. Proust called him the greatest poet of the century with Baudelaire.

rimbaud > mallarme > lautreamont > baudelaire
my secret pick is tailhade but im pretty sure he hasnt been translated yet

>>24848320
>but im pretty sure he hasnt been translated yet
good

>>24847577
16th/17th century England destroys it.

Sidney
Spenser
Chapman
Daniel
Marlowe
Shakespeare
Campion
Jonson
Donne
Herrick
Carew
Milton
Marvell
Dryden
etc.

>>24848578
Who is the English Baudelaire

>>24848595
translated Baudelaire. what a silly question.

>>24848595
his mentor
>And neither the angels in Heaven above
>Nor the demons down under the sea
>Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
>Of the beautiful Annabel Lee

>>24848600
Poe is American though. Well, I guess you mean English language.

>>24848739
yup one of the few times the frogs were inspired by lil bro

>>24848595
Swinburne? Yeats? I don't know.

>>24848595
Swinburne? Eliot?

>>24848750
>Swinburne
Wrote an elegy for the death of Baudie
>Eliot
Now we're talking

>>24848600
Baudelaire would pray to this nigga every morning lmao

Man free thinker! do you think that you alone
within this world is the only thing that thinks?

Man, free thinker! do you think that you alone
within this world are the only thing that thinks?

>>24848578
>16th/17th century England
overrated as hell

>>24846434
I honestly don't see Rimbaud's influence is so great. Even in France people don't actually care about him because of the poetry.
I am not saying this as an insult but as a mere observation.

>>24844887 (OP)
It's a tie. Baudelaire would have loved Rimbaud--does love Rimbaud.

>>24846442
Baudelaire goes very deep, why Weininger said he was the greatest French man. I don't think you can regard Verlaine as a great man in the same say. Maybe his effects are more exquisite because his form is more liberated

>>24849341
What is the definition of "great" here? He might have been a good poet but he was, ultimately, just a whiny bitch.

>>24848595
>Who is the English Baudelaire
Thomson

>>24844887 (OP)
Who's the lesbian on the right?

>>24849370
Greatness may be defined as the reverse of whatever you are, based on such a comment as that.

>>24849400
that's my wife

>>24849144
Rimbaud is hugely influential to 20th century poetry, particularly American and Latin American poetry. But he was probably even more influential as a persona. That being said, Baudelaire is the much better poet.

>>24846434
>Baudelaire is just the easiest to translate
No he isn’t, he actually can’t be translated because much of his poetry strictly adheres to French poetic metre, but of course you didn’t know this because you’re a monolingual retard that has only read him in translation. Rimbaud is the easiest to translate btw.

>>24847577
for me, it's 20th century german poetry
trakl alone mogs 90% of verlaine's circlejerk

>>24850748
yeah that bothered me too, as a monoglot who has access to a dual language rimbaud's season in hell, comparing the texts, it all seemed very simple, almost juvenile. i was a bit shocked that this was such a highly prized author by the french but i see now it was more about libertinism than anything else. not that he was nepotistically elevated for being willing to offer his bussy, but rather that he espoused the sort of ideas people were into, satanic posterboy

>>24850850
that is to say, rimbaud was the lil nas x of his age.
(search your heart, you know it to be true)

>>24850854
>the lil nas x
I don't know what that is

>>24850824
Trakl wasn't German

>>24850748
>much of his poetry strictly adheres to French poetic metre
just like that of most other french poets??

>>24848595
You might say Dowson or Swinburne, but the similarities are superficial, and really its Kanye West

>>24851763
some satan worshiper is about all that is necessary to know

>>24851965
Is being a faggot still considered satanic in year of our Lord 1973+152?

>>24850850
Season did not even become popular until like the 1930s

Who cares. French is a fucking joke language.

>>24852177
such pleb take doesn't belong on /lit/

Ok, so what are their best poems? Post your favorites, /lit/.

>>24854901
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Brise_marine_(St%C3%A9phane_Mallarm%C3%A9)_(1887)

>>24853709
>postal service is called La Poste
This is an elaborate prank, right? No way this is a real language and a real country. All of those people are made up. That would explain everything.

I cannot take seriously anyone who claims to like Rimbaud because I know that deep inside they are just faggots who wish he was their boyfriend.
>Wrong! My interest is purely scholarly.
Whatever you say, bro.

>>24844887 (OP)
> mogs both Baudelaire and Rimbaud
and he wasnt even french lol

>>24855724
not poetry sweaty

>>24855724
> childhood is thinking Lautreamont is a satanist
> adulthood is when you realize he is mocking and trolling satanism

>>24855724
>Lautréamont isn't french...uhhhh...because he was born in South America!
>>But he was the son of a French consulate and his French wife
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T BRING FACTS TO THE TABLE!!!

i think there's only one post in this whole thread that makes any effort to address the aesthetic experience of actually reading Rimbaud and Baudelaire, and i posted it. everyone else is just pontificating about rankings and greatness and the Correct Opinion. you're all ultrapseuds, it's undeniable. fuck me. why do i spend any time on this board. i hate you all.

>Pourtant, sous la tutelle invisible d’un Ange,
>L’Enfant déshérité s’enivre de soleil,
>Et dans tout ce qu’il boit et dans tout ce qu’il mange
>Retrouve l’ambroisie et le nectar vermeil.

>Il joue avec le vent, cause avec le nuage,
>Et s’enivre en chantant du chemin de la croix ;
>Et l’Esprit qui le suit dans son pèlerinage
>Pleure de le voir gai comme un oiseau des bois.

Baudelaire is harder to translate specifically for the parts of his work which don‘t adhere to French Alexandrines. The decadence in language is often expressed by deliberately getting things just slightly wrong to suggest the sensation of his moment in literary development at the apex of romanticism from which everything further would fall away. Eliot was influenced by this in his passages of The Waste Land which periodically establish and lose iambic pentameter.

This is also a good illustration of Baudelaire being a much better poet with a prescient ethos to offer, rather than a slightly-used catamite who gave up his art by 18.

>>24856076
/lit/ards don't even like poetry at all

>>24844887 (OP)
I like how misanthropic Baudelaire looks with his sunken eyes, furrowed eyebrows and his hair wet with sweat. Man is fucked up. It's nice to see that he appears to have mellowed out slightly in later portraits.

>>24846473
>but for me the poems evoke the more detached 'aesthetic' feeling of looking at a fixed tableau, an ornate object or gothic ruin or crime scene photo, which I have to contemplate and explore.
I can relate. Although I didn't savor Les Fleurs Du Mal as I probably should have; I just casually read most of it as I would with a book. If the right mood strikes I'll come back to it.

>>24856251
/lit/ards don't even like reading

Baudelaire gets kind of old after a while with all of the bleakness and morbidness and desolation.