Thread 24851315

A thread for writing literary fiction, non-fiction, and other genres, and discussion of literary craft.

Rococo edition

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Be polite and cordial. Do not feed the trolls.
Share your work, but retain some grace and limit yourself. Do not spam.
Follow thread prompts and discuss these exercises to enrich our understanding of the craft.

Thread prompt:
Write a scene where a small, ordinary object (a ticket stub, dented spoon, chipped mug) reveals a secret about the narrator. Begin in medias res with a sensory detail. End with a line that reframes the object’s meaning.

Post your favorite works!

A creased sticker clung to the cum stained shirt. Red and white, the text read "Hello, my name is:". Below that, "OP" was scribbled in black sharpie. This tells us that the owner of the object is a gigantic faggot.

>>24851431
>Red and white, the text read "Hello, my name is:". Below that, "OP" was scribbled in black sharpie.
This punctuation is the sign of a writer who cares about the craft.

How many times have I renounced you?
Not enough. Here you are before me.
How many times must I push you away?
Not enough. Here you are before me.
How many times must I walk away?
Not enough. Here you are before me.

>>24851438
>implying

>>24851315 (OP)

I have a fear of missing out lately, no, not of the late night parties and concerts filled with strangers you might never meet again, revolving like bright wheels of carnival cheese to come and delight. I fear there’s something beyond my scope of vision, the profound is happening that can only be captured from spending my remaining evenings sitting in a plastic lawn chair on the edge of a lake or swamp observing all life. Great cycles of birth and death happening over a matter of hours or days, creeping vines withering and birds flying from nests. Inside is the dead space, the silent tunnel where air stagnates. Even now, the loons under ferns wait out a gentle rain without me truly knowing. Starting tonight, surrounded by the sun’s nightly whimper over water, I will let a single piece of light bounce off a rock and enter my eye, where it will remain for 20 years or more.

>>24851531
idgi

>For me, though, it's all about...

Do you really need that comma?

Can you do this?
>For me though, it's all about....

absolutely riveting feedback

>>24851823
Flows better with the extra comma i-m-o

>>24851531
a lot of people get this close to having a significant experience/takeaway only for it to end up as pessimism and or hatred. and they live like this, fully aware of the consequences, deeming horrible things as "necessary evils", justifying their vile inconsiderate extremist behaviour towards the entire world including themselves.
i appreciate the ambiguity in this brother. theres no room for nuance in the world for most people, and that's a shame.

>>24851932
>i appreciate the ambiguity
People only appreciate ambiguity in poetry because it's either short or they expect to be left with a feeling, not an answer.

>>24852223
>t. John Wayne
Ambiguity is great

>>24851315 (OP)
>thread prompt

The Plotter

Her soft, red-painted lips pressed against mine. I'd gone in for a quick peck, something small and noncommital, my defenses still up. But when I brought my face close to hers, she closed her eyes, opened her mouth, and kissed me fully. My anxious tension melted away. Our tongues probed each other like our words had done in the days leading up, masking our mutual interest with casual chatter, searching for compatibility. After mentally deliberating and finding the extra movement potentially acceptable, I put my hand on her cheek. Suddenly, a character on the television made a loud joke, drawing our attention and breaking our fusion. She giggled.
"I love this show," she said.
My eyes couldn't stay on the screen. I looked at her face, at her bemused smile, at her sparkling eyes. But, while those eyes drifted from the screen to meet mine, disaster struck. I saw her gaze stop briefly on something behind me. Turning around would've been useless. I knew what she'd noticed. A large pinboard, currently empty, hung from my studio apartment's wall. She only stayed on it for a moment, but I could see her brow furrow with curiosity. I'd tried taking it down before her arrival, only to reveal a far more noticeable rectangle of paint left unfaded under the pinboard's shadow. Her eyes met mine, she smiled, and in the silence between us that followed, I left a wordless prayer that she'd forget her curiosity. God left it unanswered. When the episode's credits rolled, her interrogation began.
"What's that for?" she asked. My heart sank when she pointed at the pinboard.
"Just for... sticking stuff up on," I whimpered.
"Like what? There's nothing on it now."
"I use it to keep my thoughts organized."
"What kind of thoughts?" she followed up, relentless. When I hesitated, trying to think up a response, she added conspiratorially, "Are you a conspiracy theorist? Is that what you're keeping track of?"
"No, nothing that... deep."
"Aw," she said. "I like conspiracy theories."
"Me too, but that's not what the pinboard's for."
"Then, what's it for? Tell me," she begged with a pout and puppy-dog eyes, speaking over the next episode's theme song.
I sighed. The truth would have to come out eventually. Some overwhelming part of me knew it would ruin everything. If not immediately, then at some point later, when the exact nature of my endeavor's fruits became clear. She would discard me, disgusted. Of course, that didn't happen. The truth only strengthened our bond. She developed a keen interest in what I was doing, offering her help, which she gave with pleasure. She even managed to convince herself to join the tribe and went on to contribute her own voice to the world.
"I'm a writer," I reluctantly admitted. "I write fiction. I use the pinboard to plot narratives."

>>24851823
>>24851875

You need both commas. It’s not even a discussion about readability or flow.

>>24852603
>t. grammarly

>>24852603
No I don't.

>>24851419
This thread is for the discussion of writing and stuff we're writing ourselves. You can make a new thread if you want to talk about the things we've read.

>>24852603
I hate commas littering my sentences. They are UUUUGLY

>>24852906
Educate yourself.

>>24852223
Great works of fiction are always ambiguous. That's what allows them to be the subjects of papers and books. You need to allow the reader to interpret a work.

>>24852909
Education says that commas are a matter of convention (nothing having to do with grammar), which also means they can be dispensed with when unnecessary. Sometimes you need them to remove ambiguity, but there's no ambiguity in "For me though, ..."

>>24852250
>Neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity.
t. Sigmund Freud

>>24852914
In the case of commas, the thing that tells you that you have to use them is actually called "punctuation."

>>24852930
B-T-W, don't call it an "Oxford comma," call it a serial comma

>>24852930

>To my mother, Mother Teresa, and the pope.

>They went to Oregon with Betty, a maid, and a cook.

vs

>They went to Oregon with Betty, a maid and a cook.

>>24852967
Unless Mother Teresa were my mother, for the first one I'd write
>To my mother, to Mother Teresa, and to the pope.
Might be more wordy but it makes the serial extra clear.

>>24852967
>The Oxford comma is the final comma that comes before the conjunction in a list of three or more items. Its name comes from the Oxford University Press (OUP), where for over a century it has been standard in the Oxford Style Manual.

Just had a poem published in a large famous'ish magazine. I have no respect for the publication but it doesn't increase my chances of getting a book deal.
So woohoo!!!

>>24852977
Link it if it's online. I'll give it a read and become your fan if it speaks to me.

>>24852933
Source?

>>24853014
The source is my anti-institutionalism

>>24853016
So, you pulled it out of your ass. Never change, 4chan.

>>24852603
Isn't it similar to this case?

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/and-after-all-thats.3272036/

>Either is correct.

>And, after all, that’s the whole point of being a mother. – After all is a parenthetical phrase.

>And after all, that’s the whole point of being a mother. – And after all is an introductory phrase.

In other words, it comes down to it being an introductory phrase if you say "For me though, ..." in which case you do not need the comma. Unless you're going to argue that isn't an introductory phrase.

>>24852977
>doesn't
i guess that's a typo but yeah i hope other anons also understand that they have to write and submit poems as well as short stories if they ever want an agent or book deal

>>24852977
>>24853053
How do I do that too? Like what am I supposed to look up?

>>24853041
>having an opinion = pulling things out your ass
Change, retard

>>24853148
"Open submissions" plus your work's genre. That's how I found this.
https://publishedtodeath.blogspot.com/p/calls-for-submissions.html?m=1
They're mostly no-name online mags but we all gotta start somewhere

>>24851470
i'll never stop using quotation marks but i think most writers use too many commas. you only really need them before a conjunction and even then they can usually be dispensed with. semicolons should of course be purged from the english syntax forever

>>24853175
*Semicolons should, of course, be replaced by em dashes.
ftfy

>>24851438
what is the punctuation supposed to be

>>24853158
>>24852933 didn't appear to be stated as an opinion.

>>24853209
It's not a fact or an opinion, it's an imperative based on my opinion.

>>24853635
"as clear as clear" isn't a very interesting simile. Other than that I like it.

>>24853676
True.

>>24853635
other than the semicolons i like it

>>24853696
I'm not much of a poet myself but it seems like "about something said in class" ruins the alternating flow of stressed/unstressed syllables. I'd change it to "About something she said in class" if that doesn't ruin your rhythm. But overall, this has some neat emotions.

>>24851315 (OP)

Her photograph is pinned to the shredded upper-left corner of the bulletin board above my desk, like how an insect is in a display case. The photo itself is faded, a consequence of it being inches away from my bedroom lamplight; it depicts Marilda in the prime of her life, before she ultimately choose to end it all and become a recluse. In it, she is wearing a summer dress of a shade of blue that is still capable of bringing to mind a summer sky. She is half-turned towards the camera, her eyes sparkling in some mischief that I have now forgotten, the dark vegetation of the front yard that she was in framing her a Madonna. Numerous interviewers, inquisitive minds that are curious of when an international superstar was the exclusive muse of a relative obscurity like me, have always asked me about why I keep such a photo of her in such poor conditions. I always replied that the memories are too painful to keep it well, given her end. The picture of the aged woman on the desk below my bulletin board is actually the last photo that I took of her.

>>24853793
If you modernize it a bit, it would be better. also don't overdo it with the rhymes

>as she was
is not only correct but sounds better

>and I crawled back up the spout
>and made myself a mask
>and hung it up beside the shelf
>itsby bitsy I was and then
>I spoke it to the ether

etc.

Can I get some feedback on this opening?

>>24853872
>Power Rangers
Stopped reading there

>>24853872
Sorry, the massive artless run-on at the start put me off.

>>24853920
>psychic powers
You need to go back to your containment thread

>>24853164
>https://publishedtodeath.blogspot.com/p/calls-for-submissions.html?m=1

Gracias anon, te aprecio mucho.

>>24853920
Nitpick: "teaaaases" would work better as "teeeeeases."
This possible shitpost had me until the narrator begged me to keep reading.

>>24853872
This is not one sentence worth of content. I would encourage you to fix it but telling you to kys instead seems more responsible advice.

>>24853932
>This possible shitpost
>possible
Are you retarded?

>>24853927
Je ne comprends pas l'espagnol mais je pense que tu me remercies alors de rien, mon ami.

>>24853936
OP here. Not a shitpost

>>24853936
I like to assume anons post on this thread in good faith. Shitpost or no, someone did take the time and creativity to write that thing. Or, at the very least, a prompt to generate that thing.

>>24853934
>telling you to kys instead seems more responsible advice
Let's leave that kind of attitude on the webnovel general, okay? Stick to the critique and hit backspace on the insults, please.

>>24853940
Do you have a rational justification for that, erm... particular style or is it more of a creative impulse thing?

>>24853945
Is there a particular aspect of my style you’re asking about?

>>24853942
>I like to assume anons post on this thread in good faith
Holy shit, how new are you?

>>24853950
That piece's style seems infantile and immature, even despite the adult subject matter.

>>24853956
Keep in mind this isn't /wng/ or /wg/. We're trying to put together a graceful general here.

>>24853961
Curious what you mean - I don’t see it

>>24853945
>erm...
Do you have any justification for talking like a faggy redditor?

>>24853974
Erm, uh-oh, yikes, you'd really fit in better on the webnovel thread

Any thoughts?

>>24853981
The type of shit the Indian ESL kids write for an undergrad creative writing class

>>24853968
The piece has an extremely casual air. To cite specific examples:
>opening on a sentence with the verb "was"
>sentence fragments
>"mighta"
>"And man,"
>profanity
>lack of proper punctuation
>"teaaaases"
It's an interesting style and I'm curious how you came up with it.

>>24853964
Oh god you really are a giga newfag

>>24853942
>Stick to the critique and hit backspace on the insults, please.
Kys.

>>24853981
Swords are held in scabbards. Guns are held in holsters. I didn't finish this, but what I did read gave me a nice laugh.

>>24854012
That kind of malapropism is what gives it its charm.

>>24853981
I like it, it's pretty good. I love anal penises, the only thing I found out of place was her spreading her pussy lips, it just ruined the flow.

>>24854003
Hemingway and Vonnegut are my biggest influences

>>24853920
”I have psychic powers”
>here are two paragraphs of randomly placed and badly written erotica
>oh yeah…about my psychic powers
Kek. If this is a postmodern commentary on sexuality and modernity then it’s genius

>>24854035
Care to elaborate? What exactly do you think that piece has to say about sexuality and modernity?

/wng/ here. PSA: don't post in our thread. Some of you are, and we can tell who it is by your posts. I shall now cease to post or even think about this general. Have a nice day.

>>24854048
Thank you anon, will do.

>webnovel anon literally copy/pasted my post because he couldn't think of anything more creative
lel

>>24854046
Attention spans. Distracts you in the middle of the piece…Sex sells. What else sells? Shock. It’s fairly deep if you look below the surface, anon. I am an editor who works with many prominent publishers and I would give this a very close look if it ever hit my desk.

>>24854058
I'm not sure you understood my question because half of your post is boasting about your job and the other half just points out elements of the story and calls them "deep" with no elaboration. But I'm not sure how to rephrase the question. Sorry.

>>24854081
They’re deep because they drive at something fundamental…the prose is very strong. As I said, I work with very important publishers. I can’t even say exactly who. That’s how many NDAs I’ve had to sign. But I know writing, and this would be fantastic in the hands of the right team…I wonder if that anon can reach out to me if I give him an email address

>>24854029
Moby-DICK was an ..eye opener.

>>24854055
>something fundamental
But what exactly?
By the way, it's very cool to see an industry professional in the thread. Do you have any hot tips for those of us seeking to disseminate our works? How does one build an audience as a writer?
There's no need to deanonamize yourself to the thread, but I'd encourage you to set up a burner email account and post it for anon to reach out to you. Knowing the temperament of the average 4channer, you're unlikely to get an answer, but it's worth a shot. Whatever anon does, if you'd like, I'd be happy to reach out and make a connection with you.

>>24854086
>something fundamental
But what exactly?
By the way, it's very cool to see an industry professional in the thread. Do you have any hot tips for those of us seeking to disseminate our works? How does one build an audience as a writer?
There's no need to deanonamize yourself to the thread, but I'd encourage you to set up a burner email account and post it for anon to reach out to you. Knowing the temperament of the average 4channer, you're unlikely to get an answer, but it's worth a shot. Whatever anon does, if you'd like, I'd be happy to reach out and make a connection with you.

>>24854108
>>24854086
That would be great. 4chan isn't the best place to have a serious conversation.
I've set up a burner email jimgrindr67[at]gmail.com

>>24851315 (OP)
So what's the difference between this and /wg/

>>24854134
>no elaboration
>mail delivery subsystem failure
Tsk, tsk, tsk.

>>24854164
Class, sophistication, and tier in the natural order. The difference is night and day.
Not much if /wng/ stays up. I just made this thread to escape the webnovel cretins

>>24854179
>>Not much if /wng/ stays up.
>/wng/ got deleted mere moments after this post
The freaks who run this shitshow website are sick in the head.

>>24853906
I did try to split it up into two sentences but that didn't work either. It was just as clunky.

>>24854204
>>24854164

the extremely low quality of posts in these threads smacks of something artificial. i still remember when they started testing AI posts here in a big way and then it went away and then i noticed it again a while later on a different board where it was very subtle and almost nobody could tell it was AI. and now it seems like they are turning it on again with this schizo type posting, maybe to make the site unusable and drive everybody away.

>>24853980
Fuck off newfag, I have been around since /crit/

>>24854204
>>24854250
This thread is being conducted by one shitposter >>24854033 whose antics and even more pointless threads are conveniently ignored by janny.

>>24854323
Probably because I'm not basedposting and not shitposting.

>>24854250
Let's see your quality posts

>1 hour later: nothing
What a shame

>>24854680
fuck the wg thread economy rn man frfr

>>24854687
Do you have a rational justification for that, erm... particular style or is it more of a creative impulse thing?

>>24854695
i dont see how its different from a play for example? its a dialogue.

>>24854697
The first one is formatted similarly to a play. The second one is much more, erm... abstract.

>>24854715
ok well if i put those french ass --'s before every line im sure you'd be fine with it as a back and forth. yes i admit it's not capitalized or punctuacted, im aware of that. if this legitimately invalidates my piece then my bad lol. but honestly besides what seems like nit picking to me idk if u have anything else to say

>>24854723
My recommendation is to focus on clear, concise storytelling for now and get experimental with your style later. I have nothing else to say.

I’m stomping my boots and yelling but the rats sitting atop the dumpster bin knowI don’t really mean it. Even if I swing this black bag in my hands like some kind of unexploded club beating them to death with garbage it will only turn me into their god raining the apple cores, yogurt lids and coffee grounds that make up my week through the plastic slits in the bottom and onto their children engorging the night feeders til bright morning.

We stand in the alley behind my apartment building covered in bins and cardboard and
stare at each other. I don’t want to kill anything, just wish they never existed but they do.

>>24851531
Good stuff anon

>>24855195
Thanks anon, Just did another right above you. I guess it's micro fiction with an ambiguous poetic tinge, I really want to do a line break, but that just denotes poetry instead.

>>24853164
H-how do I make sure they're not one of those shady outfits that snags your copyright and squats on it?

>>24855777
Read the fine print. If the contract doesn't clearly state that you retain ownership, back out.

>>24851823
>>For me, though, it's all about...
>Do you really need that comma?
>Can you do this?
>>For me though, it's all about....
While I'm sure there is a strict grammar rule, I never forgot a HS English teacher's admonition on this very thing. If the sentence is fine and clear with both commas and what's added between them taken out, you (can) frame the drop in addition with commas. I had a strong tendency to do just that, though lately I've been taking them down to the "one comma approach" anytime I can. I was addicted to periods of ellipsis like a ghetto nigger on crack. After I slowly cured that, this was one of the next things I cast my net to haul in. My oft cited tense issues are on the chopping block and getting more diminutive with every passing project now. I operate more on flow and feel and sound reading through than any actual strict grammar rules.