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Thread 24856635

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Anonymous No.24856635 [Report] >>24856642 >>24856646 >>24856656 >>24856681 >>24856710 >>24856755 >>24856881 >>24857284 >>24859631 >>24861536 >>24861905 >>24861906
Martin Luther
Honest thoughts on him? Please avoid strawmaning him as being responsible for modern evangelical/non denominationalism. He is responsible for traditional Protestantism which are the best churches theologically.
Anonymous No.24856641 [Report] >>24856647
The synthesis of the puritanical John Calvin and the scatologically-obsessed Rabelais
Anonymous No.24856642 [Report] >>24856655 >>24857533
>>24856635 (OP)
He wasn't the best thinker, he was just first. With the insane amount of corruption (even you trad caths have to admit) in the church including simony, digging up corpses to put on trial and the incest loving pope Rodrigo Borgia, there was bound to be some kind of protest-and revolution eventually.
Anonymous No.24856646 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
Pretty based. BTFO of stinky Papists, made based poo jokes, called out the Jew and weren't afraid of anything.

Statue-worshipping cucktholics will seethe.
Anonymous No.24856647 [Report]
>>24856641
John Calvin was 10 years old when Luther put his thesis on that door
Anonymous No.24856655 [Report]
>>24856642
That is what made him great, he didn't want to start his own church, he wanted to reform. After his excommunication he started his own church built on the gospel with a touch Saint Augustine's thought (the best theologian).
Anonymous No.24856656 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
He unintentionally created our modern secular world so I'm kinda grateful for it.
Anonymous No.24856671 [Report]
Is this really all so unreasonable? Worth Killing millions in war for? The Popes were just the Mafia of their time.

When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, ``Repent'' (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.
This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.
Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.
The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.
The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.
God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.
The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.

https://www.luther.de/en/95thesen.html
Anonymous No.24856681 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
He created individual conscience in literature. An immense genius. Not one element of his personality comes down to us clouded by the culture of his times, his personality is as fresh and real to us today in his writings as it was in his own.
Anonymous No.24856701 [Report]
https://ergofabulous.org/luther/
Anonymous No.24856710 [Report] >>24856716 >>24856729
>>24856635 (OP)
Instead of addressing any of the actually root causes of the problems with catholicism, IE the social, geographical, and political realities that stemmed from and were enabled by its hunger for power that originally manifested in the split from the orthodox church, and arguably dates back to the church fathers engaging in clearly politically motivated curation of the early gospels, he just threw a tantrum over the surface level symptoms and ultimately made it worse by instead doubling down on what ultimately amounted to his own politically motivated, power grabbing curation of the already crippled gospel.
Anonymous No.24856716 [Report] >>24856720
>>24856710
Anonymous No.24856720 [Report]
>>24856716
kek Luther was a great writer.
Anonymous No.24856729 [Report] >>24859348
>>24856710
Catholicism is the leftover state religion of the Roman Empire.
Orthodoxy is the leftover state religion of the Byzantines.
Lutheranism is not effected by geopolitics, each country has its own church governance.
Anonymous No.24856740 [Report]
one of the first thing i did as a christian was read Luther's letter to his barber, and memorize the ten commandments, Apostle's creed and Lord's prayer and adopt that style of praying.

his eccentricity, wit and humor endeared him to me. he'd probably be a 4chan shitposter were he alive today.
Anonymous No.24856755 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
love em, simple as
Anonymous No.24856770 [Report] >>24856873
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2StKxMKWfbU
Anonymous No.24856873 [Report]
>>24856770
Sproul was based. I just watched his course on Western philosophy and am about to read the book.
Anonymous No.24856881 [Report] >>24856919
>>24856635 (OP)
Luther <<<< Calvin < Arminius
Anonymous No.24856919 [Report] >>24856924
>>24856881
Uhhh
Anonymous No.24856924 [Report] >>24856928
>>24856919
>t. doesn't believe in free will
Anonymous No.24856928 [Report] >>24856973 >>24859342
>>24856924
We Calvinists believe in free will, we just can't explain how it works lol

Your post just seemed to imply you may hold some affection for Calvin, which I thought was weird.
Anonymous No.24856973 [Report] >>24857025
>>24856928
What's wrong with Calvin? He's far better than Luther in my eyes. The only problem is that I believe in free will, and that humans freely choose to accept or reject God's grace.
Anonymous No.24857013 [Report] >>24857023 >>24857026 >>24857116 >>24857128
He should have stayed in communion, bowed his head, and repented when the excommunication came down.

He could have been one of the great reformers like Francis and Dominic.

But he was too proud and too arrogant.
Anonymous No.24857023 [Report] >>24857155
>>24857013
Stop being so greedy and arrogant next time.
Anonymous No.24857025 [Report] >>24857092
>>24856973
I didn't say there was anything wrong with Calvin, only that it's unusual for an Arminian to hold any regard for him.
Anonymous No.24857026 [Report] >>24857155
>>24857013
You are confusing pride with conscience.
Anonymous No.24857092 [Report]
>>24857025
Arminianism and Calvinism aren't that different, actually.
Anonymous No.24857116 [Report] >>24857155
>>24857013
>But he was too proud
*too great
Anonymous No.24857128 [Report] >>24857155 >>24857160
>>24857013
>O God, Almighty God everlasting! how dreadful is the world! behold how its mouth opens to swallow me up, and how small is my faith in Thee! Oh! the weakness of the flesh, and the power of Satan! If I am to depend upon any strength of this world – all is over... The work is not mine, but Thine. I have no business here... I would gladly pass my days in happiness and peace. But the cause is Thine And it is righteous and everlasting! O Lord! help me!

I've never read something more arrogant. This Luther fellow must've been some kind of deranged narcissist.
Anonymous No.24857155 [Report] >>24857163 >>24857173 >>24857221 >>24857451
>>24857023
>>24857026
>>24857116
>>24857128
There is only one Church that has mattered, and will ever matter.

Luther had multiple opportunities to submit to it but he was too proud.

How could he not have seen what an incredible thing the Catholic Church was, how strange and wonderful it was, how beautiful it was?

How could he have chosen to break communion?

I must consider the possibility that he was possessed by some devil. Maybe even Satan himself.
Anonymous No.24857160 [Report] >>24857166
>>24857128
>I've never read something more arrogant.
Literally the most sincere and harmless expression of Christian faith such as has been demonstrated in every sect. Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you need to project every sin imaginable onto him. Catholics should be ashamed for how unbelievably ill-intentioned they are when talking about Luther.
Anonymous No.24857163 [Report]
>>24857155
It's strange alright, I'll grant you that


The simple answer to your question is that his allegiance was with Christ, not a corrupt institution
Anonymous No.24857166 [Report] >>24857188
>>24857160
I was being sarcastic, you are correct. The only reason you didn't immediately recognize my sarcasm was because of how deranged and uncharitable Catholics are when it comes to Luther.
Anonymous No.24857173 [Report] >>24857220
>>24857155
Ask Peter Waldo, Jan Hus and John Wycliffe. The truth of the matter is that even if you remove Luther from the equation, the reformation was inevitable. Or do you think the likes of Melanchthon, Calvin, Zwingli, Menno Simons, or John Knox would have simply disappeared?
The simple matter of truth is that Catholic Church was corrupt and indolent, splitting itself with Avignon and Rome, allowing Medici bankers and Borgia's to run roughshot over it, and willingly committing simony. Small wonder god had the landsknechten plunder Rome together with the Spanish.
Anonymous No.24857188 [Report]
>>24857166
Lol yeah that's true. I've seen so many TradCaths make insane posts like that without a hint of sarcasm. I don't expects Catholics to agree with or even like Luther, but the virulent hatred they have towards him is utterly indefensible and really un-Christian.
Anonymous No.24857220 [Report] >>24857224 >>24857233 >>24857234 >>24857259 >>24857264
>>24857173
But we are still here.

Do not speak of us as conquered, because we have endured. Do not speak of us as defeated, because we still remain.

After all the Reformation, here we are. You didn't beat us. Rather, we took your critiques to heart, and improved upon them.

You should have rejoined us long ago. We could have all been one Church again, as the Apostles wanted.
Anonymous No.24857221 [Report]
>>24857155
Catholics will sell indulgences and demand you worship Mary or be damned to hell. Man made doctrines alien to the apostles and Christ.
Paul tells us, quoting Isaiah, "how beautiful are the feet if those that bring good news." How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the Gospel.
Anonymous No.24857224 [Report]
>>24857220
Well enjoy the presence of an Islamic prayer rug devoted to Baphomet and the Antichrist.
Anonymous No.24857233 [Report] >>24857239
>>24857220
Unironically idolising the current Pope epitomises everything wrong with modern Catholics. And are you intentionally trying to reddit post?
Anonymous No.24857234 [Report] >>24857239
>>24857220
Do you believe in papal infallibility?
Anonymous No.24857239 [Report] >>24857261 >>24857271
>>24857233
I don't idolize him, I actually have some critiques of Leo already. But he IS the Pope, I am bound to him with a certain level of obedience. It is precisely the fact that I will obey him, and not betray him, that allows me to critique him in a spirit of honesty. But push comes to shove I am Leo's man.

>>24857234
I believe in what Papal Infallibility actually is: with the Pope speaking Ex Cathedra, specifically invoked. It's only been used a handful of times.
Anonymous No.24857259 [Report]
>>24857220
>Rather, we took your critiques to heart, and improved upon them.
But would that have still happened had Luther just shrugged his shoulders and backtracked?
If yes, then the Church was so deeply corrupt and astray that the reformation was indeed inevitable and therefore Luther was right to condemn the Church and it's practices at the time. It would be straight up sinful and hypocritical for him to backtrack on the very criticisms that the Church later too to the heart.
If no, then Luther's unrepentant opposition was indeed vital for the restoration and improvement of the Catholic Church.

So there's simply no scenario in which Luther caving in to the Church prosecution would be the proper course of action. Overall the whole situation's contemporary relevance boils down to Rome remaining extremely averse to admitting it's past wrongdoing towards people who criticized and harmed it, even if it was done quite rightfully in hindsight.
Anonymous No.24857261 [Report]
>>24857239
>It is precisely the fact that I will obey him, and not betray him, that allows me to critique him in a spirit of honesty. But push comes to shove I am Leo's man.
Explain tho.
Anonymous No.24857264 [Report]
>>24857220
We shall do no such thing, Augsburg and Westphalia ensured that Protestant liberty triumphed over papist tyranny by breaking the hold of the pope over politics
Or in other words
>The Holy See was very displeased at the settlement, with Pope Innocent X calling it "null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time" in the papal brief Zelo Domus Dei
But nobody listened.
Anonymous No.24857271 [Report]
>>24857239
>But push comes to shove I am Leo's man.
What if he was secretly a satanist attempting to sabotage the church?
Anonymous No.24857284 [Report] >>24857294 >>24860140
>>24856635 (OP)
>"Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven Thus, let us drink beer!"
He sounds very German.
Anonymous No.24857294 [Report]
>>24857284
Is it even a real quote?
Anonymous No.24857451 [Report]
>>24857155
I mean, Catholics did it first.
Anonymous No.24857533 [Report]
>>24856642
Borgia was a fairly popular pope because he ended the ability of indulgences to grant amnesty for actual crimes in the Papal States, something rich guys loved
Anonymous No.24858384 [Report] >>24859008
Is it true that Luther was fundamental to the development of the German language?
Anonymous No.24859008 [Report]
>>24858384
Yeah, he grew up speaking French and decided the German people should have their own language.
Anonymous No.24859092 [Report]
If Luther could see the state of modern Protestantism he would admit the Catholics were right all along.
Anonymous No.24859342 [Report] >>24861894
>>24856928
>Can't explain it
That's because the discussions and opinions calvinists have on it are retarded philosophical bullshit that have no place in Christendom, the prattle of useless clerics.
Anonymous No.24859348 [Report]
>>24856729
Lutheranism is the leftover state religion of Germany
Anonymous No.24859631 [Report] >>24860268
>>24856635 (OP)
we had to study him in university history classes. (minor in history here). I liked him. WHen he finally got married later than usual for his day, he was a normal guy. Contemporaries were amused he was bragging about his bedroom conquests with his new wife like any normal. I remember the quote someone wrote down. "I now know what the fresh hay is for", lol. (a single guy doesn;t need fresh hay in his bed, hint hint)
Anonymous No.24860140 [Report]
>>24857284
He sounds based as FUCK
Anonymous No.24860268 [Report] >>24861881
>>24859631
>I now know what the fresh hay is for
what
Anonymous No.24861536 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
At the bare minimum, he was a courageous man who broke the stranglehold of the Catholic Church on all of Christianity, exposed the corruption of the Catholics, and destroyed papal infallibility as well as various extrabiblical traditions supported for centuries by the RCC.

He made me proud to be a Protestant.
Anonymous No.24861881 [Report]
>>24860268
Fuckins juice is absorbed by the straw and makes it stinky.
Anonymous No.24861894 [Report]
>>24859342
You talk like you wear a fedora
Anonymous No.24861905 [Report]
>>24856635 (OP)
Evangelists COMPLETELY missed his opinion of kikes
Anonymous No.24861906 [Report] >>24861917 >>24861994
>>24856635 (OP)
Anonymous No.24861917 [Report]
>>24861906
The less fanatical are more susceptible to adopting new ideas , especially less conservative and more liberal concepts
Anonymous No.24861946 [Report] >>24861970
came here to post a thread about this

worth reading?

is it safe to buy online?
Anonymous No.24861970 [Report]
>>24861946
>is it safe to buy online?
Stop worrying about EVERYTHING you do and use you brain: if it was safe then it wouldn’t be available to buy , not to mention it is in the public domain and available on Jewpedia in full.
Anonymous No.24861994 [Report] >>24862002
>>24861906
>But Neetcheese said-
Dogshit philosopher. Can't for the life of me figure out why you incel retards suck him off so hard.
Anonymous No.24862002 [Report] >>24862005
>>24861994
Because he suggests one to replace old defunct living rules (old stone tablets) with new ones: everyone creates their own ideologies , dogmas, doctrines, theologies, virtues , vices..
Anonymous No.24862005 [Report] >>24862010
>>24862002
And then laments what he called "the death of God" and also worshipped the Jew.

Fuck off.
Anonymous No.24862010 [Report] >>24862015
>>24862005
>worshipped the Jew
Elaborate. Btw why you seethe and lament— I’m genuinely asking? Why can’t you control your thoughts and you let others stir your emotions?
Anonymous No.24862015 [Report] >>24862026
>>24862010
You overestimate my amount of mental energy that I'm actually investing here. I just rightfully called you an idiot.
Anonymous No.24862026 [Report]
>>24862015
You project YOUR own personal DEFECTS onto others.
Anonymous No.24862091 [Report]
He’s the reason why we have people like kirk and walsh in America trying to reconcile nazi ideology with Christianity.