>retcons Cima's death
What an actual fucking cop-out.

>retcon
Stop using this fucking word. You don't know what it means. Kill yourself, newfag.

>>23278345
>changes the circumstances of the Gerbera Tetra getting impaled AND allows Cima Garahau to live, effectively ruining the tragedy of her death as a victim of circumstance
that is a slasher sequel tier retcon and you know it

>>23278345
fuck you it's canon now so I hate it

>>23278359
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A RETCON IS

>>23278338 (OP)
>Retcon
It's not canon to the UC as a whole, it's a self contained thing.
And the overall story is much much better than the OVA, so i'll take it.

>>23278556
>It's not canon to the UC as a whole, it's a self contained thing
the OVA or the comic?

>>23278588
Both, while 0079 and Zeta are both canon to 0083, 0083 is not canon to 0079 or Zeta. Same deal with the comic.

>>23278360
No, at least no more than a SRW is canon.

>>23278338 (OP)
it's a remake.
the writer is the one who who directed the second half of the OVA too

>>23278338 (OP)
>cima survives
>kelly survives
>gato survives
What the fuck is this shit

>>23279061
nigga you got trolled

>>23278338 (OP)
She's hot and Kou is a little bitch so I'm fine with it

>>23279180
>mommyfags in a nutshell
Hope you like your chocolate dumps.

>>23279061
Gato died, the other guy is a schizo pretending to be Gato. Even Kou says he's not him.

>>23279021
It's still kinda lame that the director wrote this to retcon his waifu's death.

>>23282882
It's not a retcon, you inbreed.

>>23278338 (OP)

Cimas death is cannon.

0083 didn't even happen.

>>23278338 (OP)
Why did this shitty non canon shit got so much budget for its animation?

>>23289143
basically to make you mad

>>23289143
What the fuck are you talking about with budget?

>>23289098
she does get pwned by a cannon for getting Burning killed

>>23283198
Basically another branch timeline. Wonder if Rebellion is connected to Zeta Define, which has its own gallery of changes to the original Zeta... Also, where are some changes for ZZ to adjust to the changes made to Zeta? I really wish they retcon lots of things like Kamille running his hospital early and be a bit more prickly for a first impression before giving Judau a boost to his Newtype ability, or Leina being rescued by a Puru instead of Sayla, who would discover the two after landing on a nearby Fed base.

>>23278556
I disagree. The few improvements are nothing compared to all the padding, pointless changes and complexity retarded things added.

>>23290531
Zeta had many weird moments between the transition to ZZ and I'm not even sure why some of them happened.

>>23278338 (OP)
The thing about side stories is that you can just ignore them if you don't like them.

>>23291103
Except Rebelion is a retelling of Stardust Memories that extends past the OVA with the early days of the Titans.

>>23291114
Why the fuck would that mean you're not allowed to ignore it? Just fucking stop reading it.

>>23291151
I not the anon who is pissed off over the retcons, just saying that it's not a side story, but it's true that since it isn't animated it's easier to ignore.

>>23291114
You can literally just ignore it, only your autism is preventing you from doing it.

>>23291199
Read, nigga, READ>>23291187

>>23280328
So Gato got his own Full Frontal, so to speak?

Cima should survive because she is sexy

>>23295447
Cima shouldn't survive because she's a tragic and her death is just the cherry atop the shit sundae that is her existence.

That said, Nina should have died too.

>>23280328
>Gato died, the other guy is a schizo pretending to be Gato.
Didn't the manga implied he survived as they only found his helmet and an escape pod?

>>23278338 (OP)
0083 should be rewritten unfortunately 0083 Rebellion doesn't fix major issues.
0083 is flawed on a fundamental level.
Let's just take a step back and observe the year 0080 . Outside of the random stragglers here and there on earth and in space. It was known that a fleet sized force of Gihren loyalists withdrew from the Battle of A Baoa Qu and the status of the fortress Axis was unknown. Something like Operation Stardust or some kind of grand conspiracy isn't needed to justify the creation of what started as a autonomous branch of the military that dealt with counterinsurgency ie Titans.
0083 should have featured Titans from the start in their smaller form, factionalism and rivalry with the regular EFSF.
EFSF fuck up badly this causes the Titans to be favored post 0083
Instead of EFSF fucks up because of a conspiracy to create the Titans.

>>23300976
Gundam 0083 should have been set in 0081 instead of 0083 which gives us this really crammed timeline
As a result we got these side stories set in 0080-0083 that deal with counter insurgency and special ops except these units are efsf instead of titans because of 0083.

>>23301007
being set in 0081 would be even more fucked and make the technology reversion leading up to Zeta even more hard to believe

>>23301082
he's a retard, he said he wanted a "really crammed timeline"

>>23301082
>being set in 0081 would be even more fucked and make the technology reversion
Bingo its most likely set later because they wanted to have more high tech mobile suits.

>>23300976
Incidents such as 0083 would have resulted in something far worse than Titans. Novels also mentioned that the Earth restoration project was going fine, I doubt that would be a thing if Gato nuked the granaries.

>>23278338 (OP)
dont care. stay mad

>>23300976
>Something like Operation Stardust or some kind of grand conspiracy isn't needed to justify the creation of what started as a autonomous branch of the military that dealt with counterinsurgency ie Titans.
>0083 should have featured Titans from the start in their smaller form, factionalism and rivalry with the regular EFSF.
>EFSF fuck up badly this causes the Titans to be favored post 0083
>Instead of EFSF fucks up because of a conspiracy to create the Titans.
Zeta implies that the "Anti Earth-Federation Organization" (反地球連邦組織), with their Contolist-inspired demands for spacenoid representation and mass migration to space, had existed before the Titans were organized. The whole Stardust conspiracy was dumb.

>>23307236
fully agree it also fucks up 0081-0082, what exactly could a side story set during these years be about?
Gee I dunno counterinsurgency?
Well sorry Stardust Memory told us Titans were created in 0083.

>>23308639
>The whole Stardust conspiracy was dumb.
It really wasnt. The AEUG before titans was just fringe political movement before they became an act militia. The titans were proposed at a time where that initiative didn't have a purpose at all because things were quite and Zeon had basically fucked for most part. It makes since that they would need to stage something like Stardust in order to be given the free reigns the Titans are none to be given in Zeta to do what ever the fuck they want.

>>23308659
>It really wasnt.
It was because the show was clearly written without it before the reveal and everything in it could have gone wrong at so many junctions.

>>23308659
>Zeon had basically fucked for most part
>Stragglers here and there still left on earth
>Ditto for space making it a more viable den for insurgency because well you know space is much vaster and supplies can be obtained through piracy
>Fleet sized force of Gihren loyalists pulled out after the armistice was signed
>The status of Axis was one huge question mark
Dude Titans would have been created very quickly in a post-oyw world. Oh and keep in mind I don't mean they would have had the jurisdiction they have by the time of Gryps war instantly.

>>23308662
It's one of those the conspiracies where the worse it gets, the better chances the intend outcome will happen. The more of shitshow Cima and Delaz cause, the stronger Bask's case for establishing the Titans will be. Of course he was panicking when the colony still fell and miraculously missed. But that just show you how easily certain people and factors can fuck up entire plans.

>>23308686
Basque isn't the creator of the Titans it's Jamitov.
Once Jamitov retired from military matters to focus on politics and command was handed to Basque that's when Titans started getting much more heavy handed.

>>23308682
They wouldnt have it all Stardust didn't happen. That's the point of Stardust. You forget that the colonies for the most part just wanted to be left to themselves so and the aim was to get a tighter grip on ALL the colonies, not just contain Zeon. Ultimately there needed to a strong example of Federation corruption existing even before the Titans, and Stardust provides just that.

>>23308696
>>23308696
>They wouldnt have it all Stardust didn't happen. That's the point of Stardust
Stardust Memory completely bungles this by not having the Titans created prior to 0083. Hell even for the sake of pure show telling it would have been better to have early Titans personnel and EFSF interacting and them being backed by various different warring horses.
Black and White GM rivalry.

>>23308705
Oh on that note you are right. I mean, you could still fit it in a side story prior to 0083, explain as the Titans being on trial run, but that rivalry being shown would make Stardust memory being a conspiracy hold way more weight too.

>>23280328
The fake Gato died, the real one got away and was never seen after he got to Earth. They literally fucking say someone already rescued him when they got to the escape pod. Read the damn manga before discussing it you illiterate imbecile.

I will never understand how Cima became some popular tragic heroine. She’s just an irredeemable bitch in Stardust Memory.

>>23312548
a combination of inexplicable simping and scat doujins

>>23312548
She is just a typical commander in war, what "irredeeemable" about it? She kills enemy soldiers? C'mon anon.

>>23312677
She risks killing her own men and doesn’t care about their lives and has no loyalty to anybody but herself (yet yells at Uraki for attacking them after they defect).

>>23278338 (OP)
>Cima is alive and keeping low profile
Based. I like it.

>>23312695
>She risks killing her own men and doesn’t care about their lives and has no loyalty to anybody but herself
Imagine caring about survival of anybody in a fucking war.

>>23308696
This is some weird circular logic of "Stardust needs to happen because the OVA happens" than anything related to Zeta that needed explaining. In fact Zeta is more incompatible with 0083's story than people realized.

>>23312695
retconned by the manga btw

>>23312723
She literally nearly crashes her ship into another, endangering all of them, as a joke

>>23312777
Sounds pretty based if you ask me.

>>23312548
It was her Clan that took the fall for the first Colony drop. Everyone in Zeon denounced her and her clan, after she was told to do it by them in the first place. That's why she was totally fine with snaking Delaz for a spot in the Titans.

>>23312777
>>23313120
I regularly wreck several cars a year just flexing on other people on the highway

>>23313205
Where was this in 0083?
I know she got made more sympathetic after the fact, I question why she got any sympathy in the first place. Everything we see of her suggests she’s more of a villain than Gato.

>>23313364
The bonuses they included in the DVDs for Stardust memory.

>>23313382
She was not some sort of slasher movie villain. Cima was an anti villain, she has likeable qualities while serving as a secondary villain of the show, not necessary an irredeemable monster since she is not the type that would make human chimera then boast about how pathetic her test subjects are. She was a leader and soldiers themselves expected to die for her, it is basic hierarchy.

>>23313888
I didn't claim she was, i was the one who brought up her back story and how she was betrayed by zeon.

>>23313888
>she has likeable qualities
like what, her titties?

>>23313888
To Kou, she was a standard mid-level miniboss, a tougher enemy than usual. She was dangerous to Kou, but not much more interaction than that.

To Gato, she acted like a cunt and laughed at him for it. She did the space equivalent of cutting you off on the road in her expensive SUV and when you honk your Toyota's horn at her in frustration, she's laughing out the fucking window at your shitheap.

To Delaz, she swore loyalty but it turned out to be lip service and even Delaz said he regretted it when she held him at gunpoint and killed his ship's bridge crew in front of him.

To the Feds, she sold out to them to try to screw over Delaz and other Zeon-fanatics.. twice. She had a secret meeting with Admiral Wyatt that got interrupted and then later Wyatt got nuked at the naval review, so she makes another deal offscreen with Jamitov\Bask, to switch sides during the colony drop escort mission.

Other actions? When one of her goons died against Kou, she complained about the Gelgoog being irreplaceable rather than feeling for his death. Well when she went to go pickup Kelly and the Val Varo as a messenger for Delaz, she switched the plan around, she was going to get one of her goons to pilot the Val Varo instead and ditch Kelly on the moon.

At the root of all of this, we find out that the reason she acts this way is because she got used as a scapegoat for colony gassing operations and her reputation among Zeon forces went to shit, so she doubled down and embraced it, acting like a shitty person to match her reputation.

I get it if you feel sorry for her, but what did she even do in the story that was enjoyable, likeable, commendable, impressive? She's not a monster because Mayfly of Space tells us she obviously had normal empathy since she has PTSD, but frankly there's not a lot here, Cima was a wildcard antagonist who defaulted to being sneaky and opportunistic, I wouldn't really frame her as an anti-villain as if she were just an anti-hero on the other side.

>>23314036
Good post; you nailed what I was getting at.

Is there a single writing trope worse than a character doing something while asking "why am I not doing the obvious thing?" and the audience is also asking why they aren't, and then they just continue with no real explanation?

Like he might as well just look at the audience and say "I'm real sorry but the script says I save him here." Yeah man, I wanna know too. Why is this happening? This is basically the one survival case for him in this scenario, literally every other result other than "and then kou just saves him for some reason" is that he dies.

>>23314074
japan got a hardon for those moral quandries, so much that sometimes I just want a straightforward protagonist who knows what he's doing and doesn't waver. I don't want a edgelord who does the worst thing possible for the sake of being bad, I don't want a "never does wrong" idiot who always wants to do the right thing, I just want a competent person who is aware of the risks but is skilled enough and determined to see the mission through to the end.