>nostalgiabait
:|
>nostalgiabait (Japan)
:O

>>23347811 (OP)
People are gonna seethe because it’s the current thing but time will prove you right. People will forget about this shit fast while actually good gundam shows will be kept talking about.

A lot of people were letting the pandering in TFA slide until the next sequels came out. It wasn't until we saw how bad those were that TFA became worse by proxy.

yes

Based, we need to make people stop liking gcucks, bro

I feel like we are now in a parallel universe or something. Statistically it shouldn’t be possible for almost everything released today to be dogshit in some way. Even if a franchise today is lucky enough to have the original creators on board somehow the new entry or game or whatever it is STILL is shit.

>>23347831
>Statistically it shouldn’t be possible for almost everything released today to be dogshit in some way
It's because SSRIs are now in widespread usage and that includes the people making shit. I'm not being facetious. It is 100% the problem.

>>23347818
The last jedi was the line for star wars not tfa.

>>23347839
TLJ is the perfect comparison for GQux. Both had interesting ideas with bad execution

Tsurumaki and Enokido are Japanese JJ Abrahms and Filoni

>>23347818
>that TFA became worse by proxy.
TFA's initial reception was largely buoyed by lingering frustration with the prequels causing people to set their standard absurdly low

>>23347811 (OP)
Nostalgiabait was the least of the SW Sequel's problems.

>dude...just like...kill the past
>everything before is just nostalgia bait

Why do hacks use this trope so much?

>>23347877
I'm having trouble deciphering any meaning from this.

>>23347811 (OP)
TFA is fine, it's the other two movies in the sequel trilogy that are a complete mess

GQUAX has actually good mechanical design thoughbeit

>>23347882
TFA is terrible and the only reason normalfags tolerate it is their lack of critical thinking skills.

>>23347852
I hated the sequels because I compared them to the prequels. The prequels have a large fan base. the prequels basically set the standard for what people expect form a new star wars era. Each film needs to have new exciting places and planets. Lots of cool weapons and ships. Lots of cool new designs in general. each prequel film was a genuine expansion to the SW universe. Even if you don’t like the plot of the prequels people expected that sense of world expansion and creativity and they never got that. We got Donaldduck troopers vs not rebels in striped OT ships. With a cast that is not likable or memorable in anyway. boring planets. Boring costume design. shitty everything. Nothing that makes me say I want a video game of that.

>>23347831
How old are you?

>>23347894
I grew up with the OT in the 90s but I thought that the prequels added so much cool shit that I liked them as much as the OT. It’s just an objective fact that each prequel film was full of new things people actually were wowed or impressed by. That’s why we got so many popular video games people still talk about 20 years later. and I used that argument because I don’t really care about if you don’t like the PT plot or the PT characters, the actual universe expansion was rich. felt like it was doubled it scale in how much there was to discover or see.

>>23347811 (OP)
the force awakens did it better, the fact that it wasnt afraid to show bad things happening to the people in star wars makes the setting more compelling and interesting compared to the nonstop Gundam worship that GQUX did.

>>23347892
I think the problem was that they thought after the prequels people wanted the movies to be more like the original trilogy, unfortunately they went a little “too literal”. Not to mention the poor direction overall. The original plan for episode 9 wasn’t even terrible, Carrie fisher’s passing screwed it up

>>23347903
Bait.

>>23347902
Yeah I get you, NU Star Wars isn’t entirely all that bad, there’s still a few gems out there like the mandolorian and the critically acclaimed andor series, the fallen order games are pretty good too

>>23347826
we need to attack people who paid for the kits

>>23347882
It's only fine because it rips off A New Hope so much, it's very hard to fuck up that kind of story and they just barely stick the landing. The plane isn't gonna fly afterwards but nobody on board died. I genuinely think it's a better movie than Rogue One was, although I'd need to rewatch both to see how that opinion has changed. Solo was the only good Star Wars movie Disney made though.
>>23347892
Honestly I just wish the other two prequels were as good as Revenge of the Sith. The Phantom Menace isn't bad as an adventure movie but Attack of the Clones is such a slog until Geonosis, although the Kamino stuff was pretty neat.

>Gqux started development during the peak of the subversive slop era (2018-2021)
Makes too much sense.

>>23347882
It's an extremely by the book soft reboot (as was the style at the time) that introduced a bunch of plot threads that clearly (in retrospect) had zero thought put into how they'd actually be tied up. On its own, it's relatively inoffensive, aside from being a copy-paste of A New Hope that fails to move past the rebel-empire dynamic in spite of how the original trilogy ended. Taken with the rest of the trilogy, it's pretty bad.

>>23347892
I like the prequels, but the first two are not good movies by any means. George desperately needed a tard-wrangler/writer/director who actually knew what they were doing in the room. They did have some awesome setpieces though, and I am a big sucker for Obi-Wan. Also, like you said, they did serve as a good basis for EU material like books and vidya.

>>23347908
They obviously overdid it with the course-correction coming into the sequels, but it's still mind-boggling that Disney didn't have an overarching plan for the direction to take their billion dollar acquisition, especially since they were still enjoying the peak of the MCU.

>nostalgiabait (Tominoslop)
:O

>>23347924
Yeah Rota was the best no contest. But I think episode 1 and 2 still have their highlights. Naboo is a really cool looking planet with cool shit on it. We benefitted from those levels in games. Introduced battle droids and destroyer droids. What is as cool as a droideka in the sequel trilogy? Come on. Pod racing is cool in a lore universe sense. Darthmaul was a cool villain. Double sided lightsaber was impressive. Felt genuine not contrived. lots of interesting new ships in episode 1.

Episode 2 was boring at times but the city chase was really cool at the start. Coruscant is a really cool looking planet. Good place for levels and games. geonosis is awesome too. introduced clone walkers and clone ships. Kamino was cool. this all led to republic commando being possible. Legendary game. Then star wars battlefront 1 and 2 with like 20 maps. Jango felt was 50 times as cool than phasma and actually is integrated into the story. Dooku is an awesome character and charismatic. Sick lightsaber. Battle of geonosis was awesome in episode 2.


Yeah both films were slow but again the world building in one prequel film is like the entire sequel trilogy and maybe even a lot more than that.

>>23347931
If it was nostalgiaslop then there would be Zeta and ZZ references everywhere (instead of pretty much the only carryover being Astonaige) and Kai/Sayla would have major speaking roles

>>23347811 (OP)
TFA invalidated much of what the OT did. All the work done in OT gone.

>>23347811 (OP)

You know that little sequence of Lalah's original timeline almost makes me want a remake of 0079 in that animation style. Just some good solid 2d mecha action in a mostly CG show, it was nice.
>>23347939
Yeah all the stuff you mentioned is why it was so easy to spin off a bunch of EU comics and the two Clone Wars cartoons. Most of my complaints with those two movies is just the story and some of the dialogue more than anything. Qui-Gonn's a highlight in TPM, you can really tell that Obi-Wan took a lot from his master going forward. Like the negotiation with Watto about the pod race is such a well written scene and tells you everything you need to know about him as a character and as a Jedi. His death is in a way the death of the entire order as a whole because he was one of the few who wasn't so dogmatic to be blind to what was going on. I just find it really frustrating that the conversation about the Prequels so often boils down to
>GEORGE LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD AND I'M MAILING PIPE BOMBS TO HIS HOUSE
and
>GEORGE LUCAS IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND ALL INFIDELS WHO DEFY HIM WILL BE HANGED

Come the fuck on people, I grew up with the Prequels and all the marketing worked on me, but we can discuss these movies civilly. But then again there were people calling for George's head after Vader was revealed to be Luke's father back in the day. Maybe Star Wars fans have gotten exactly what we fucking deserve.
>>23347950
They even put them both in CGI.

>>23347950
Luke showing up and mercing some dark troopers was cool though. More RX-78 wank was not.

>>23347945
ZZ aired the year before
the nostalgiaslop is the gundam, gelgoog, and elmeth
i don't want to count how many nostalgiabait mobile suits are in gqux it's too much

>>23347946
It's not just that it invalidated the ending of RotJ plot-wise, it's that it didn't account for the emotions of the story at all.
As in ROTJ ends on a really high note, total victory and everything, and TFA picks up as if it's still in the middle of A New Hope tonally.
To say nothing of the fact that it was pretty much a soft reboot of A New Hope anyway.

Zero legwork is done to bring the audience from ROTJ to TFA's setting.
And then you have stuff like Leia ignoring Chewie like they don't even know each other, which is a bizarre mistake.

GQ is better than pretty much the entirety of Disney's Star Wars efforts just for having writers that actually care about and like their source material.

Creatively bankrupt hacks that can only do nostalgiabait and memberberries.

>>23347959
amen

>>23347959
You seem upset.
I used to be excited for new Star Wars until it was handed over to people who hate its fanbase.
No Gundam is comparable to what Star Wars has become.

There's also nothing wrong with referencing past works in a sequel.
Half of the seething about Gundam itt is people pointing at sequels, which naturally build on the foundation of the previous entries, and calling it nostalgiabait.

>>23347959
>nostalgia le bad
>post series that features mobile suits from previous series
Anon....

>>23347968
Star wars is in a better state than Gundam because it actually has creatives that arent afraid to take risks compared to Gundam that constantly references old slop that they wont move on from.

>>23347972
>Star wars is in a better state than Gundam
LOL
LMAO even

>>23347972
>because it actually has creatives that arent afraid to take risks
No one FUCKING CARES about the Clone Wars cartoon FUCK

It’s even worse when you realize gundam star wars AND halo are all at their rock bottom point together at the same time bros idk how this is possible to happen simultaneously with so many AAA franchises

>>23347984
Oh yeah the evangelion rebuilds happened too

>>23347903
I guess that's true but I think GQux is the only time we have ever seen Char die on screen which is pretty surreal, even if it was AU.

>>23347972
No, not in a million years, Disney's SW has zero redeeming qualities.

>>23347972
This is objectively untrue. Star Wars is in a terrible spot financially with merchandise whereas Gundam is not.
Subjectively I will say Gundam is in a better spot creatively because it's not openly hostile to fans and wondering why they keep dipping.

>>23347811 (OP)
>that arent afraid to take risks
If only they weren't afraid to take actual risks regarding their mecha designs.
Here's your new war machine meant to capture the minds of the youth like the prequels and OT did back in their day, bro!

>>23347984
Nothing compares to how badly Halo has fallen off man. Shit makes Call of Duty and Battlefield look like they're the result of divine inspiration.

>>23347984
GQuuuuuuX was pretty good imo. Hathaway was decent. Looking forward to the sequel.
WfM wasn't my thing, haven't watched it, but by all accounts it's a fine show for yuri enjoyers.
Gundam is the only one of the three you've mentioned that's managed to stay cool.

>>23347892
The prequels really suffered from early 2000s jank, and George trying to do a political space opera in a handful of hours.

>>23347811 (OP)
>soulless
>soul

it's easy to understand

>>23347972
>Star Wars is in a better state than Gundam
Planet retard tier post.

>>23347984
The singularity of "geek culture" occured, alongside The point where the materials became incredibly easy to access on the internet. This is is geeks who grew up on these franchise were able to assume control over them, and instead of being able to create projects within these franchises using their own life experiences and other undefeated media as inflhences, they became bogged down in details and trivia attempting to replicate the original franchise wholesale.

>>23348044
“Am I out of touch? NO it’s the nerds fault!”

>>23348043
imagine saying this when gqux is the worst gundam ever made lol

>>23348061
Read the thread retard

>>23347811 (OP)
>implying anyone likes this shit
come on man

It's weird because it's nostalgia bait but it looks like garbage moeshit
I watched some teaser and it was playing shitty music and the voice acting was annoying
I don't even know if I should watch it

>>23347867
same for gqux

>>23347811 (OP)
But the Japanese version is also dogshit here. Episode 12 had to be a new low for Gundam

>>23347811 (OP)
but gquuux is worse. we all know now what happened with Disney starwars but at the time all the first movie had to do was get normies excited for the brand again. there was still time for it to become good
gqux is over, ever seen the whole vision and the vision is shit

>>23348061
gqux is an AU. Disney did all their shit in the mainline series. Gundam can walk away from this, Star Wars can't move forward without burning everything and anything down. Gundam seems unstable, but can recover. Star Wars is supported by Disney but can't stand on its own.

>>23347811 (OP)
The difference, I think, is that the Star Wars sequels tried their very best to get rid of the old characters to sell you new characters and CONTENT. They despised all that came before.
Meanwhile Gquuux clearly had a lot of love and reverence for the old characters, to the point the story is really about them.
I honestly like Gqx's approach a lot better.
I still fucking hate The Last Jedi for what it did to Luke. Someone clearly had a grudge.

>>23347811 (OP)
>nostalgiabait
hardly, no one gives a fuck about seeing the most dogshit redesigns known to man and paper cut outs of familiar people acting like retards
this shows moebait, its tranime, it was made by people who hate the franchise and hate the fanbase and want to just take a big name and make it for THEM
gundams a girls brand now chud in that sense it is identical to nu-wars

>>23347811 (OP)
no one fell for the nostalgiaslop
also gundams pretty immunized against bad entries. qACKs is more like a bad episode of startrek. yeah it sucks, yeah maybe some existing characters popped back up and acted like tards, but soon well get the next episode and some proper sci fi again and we can all just forget about this
in fact once we have some good gundam again people will laugh about this and watch it out of curiosity

>>23348155
This, look how the Star Wars timeline has completely frozen. There is nothing after Rise of Skywalker, since there's no way of continuing from there.
It's fucking dead in the water.

>>23348156
I dunno, the fact that Lalah and Char were in an endless death loop because of some edgy OC, and Amuro got D.O.M.E.'d for real is a worse fate than just characters dying in a setting where the afterlife seems pretty chill.

>>23348182
Luke died of auto-erotic asphyixation after milking a giant sea-cow.

>>23348182
this shits fan fiction, it never happened anon and its easy to ignore.
starwars fans will have the shitty Disney movies impacting every project going forwards for the foreseeable future

>>23348200
Post Disney buyout Star Wars is even more concrete to define and also easy to ignore.

>>23348211
there's also very little hope of anything new or good coming out

>>23348211
They won't. They rather have it go down in flames than let the chuds win, Rey will haunt the franchise forever.
Meanwhile, GQX can be completely ignored if you don't like it.
Personally, I'm a sucker for the happy ending.

>>23347811 (OP)
Zeta is no longer the worst Gundam
>>23348214
Andor was good...

>>23347811 (OP)
This, but unironically.

>>23347811 (OP)
>Disney making nearly the entire Expanded Universe noncanon (asides from the really recognizable bits they could easily transplant in like Thrawn) so that they could have The Force Awakens be the official continuation
:|
>Bandai making a what-if story about what would happen if Char stole the Gundam and Zeon won the OYW
:O

>>23347811 (OP)
Tomato is cute unlike ray

>>23348229
>making nearly the entire Expanded Universe noncanon
Who actually gives a fuck?

>>23348226
Wow, two shit takes at once

>>23348234
The stories I gave a shit about all got discontinued in favor of trash. Yeah, I'm definitely bitter about it.

So let me get this straight, people(this board) are mad about gquuuuuux and it’s “pandering” because it reminds them of the faults made from the sequel trilogy?

>>23348226
andor was good

>>23348269
Rogue One still sucks ass though. No amount of reframing and additional context can save it, except retroactively making Cassian the most interesting character in it. Aside from K-2SO obviously but I'm a sucker for funny robot sidekicks so I'm biased.

>>23348273
I have no idea why they reused a character from that shit movie.

>>23348262
Goodness no. Even the sequel trilogy didn't have something as dumb as a time janitor who kept killing the girl he loved over and over out of pure sunk cost fallacy.

>>23348044
It's become very clear that the forced top-down geekification of western culture in the late 00's (bought on by stuff like Big Bang Theory, Disney's Marvel buyout, and the Star Trek reboots) was an attempt to bring "geeks" under heel, for the crime of having a subculture that wasn't under western corporate control.

>>23348273
Hot take: Rouge one’s events was better than the original version, somehow the girl of the team already knew who Han Solo was working with him multiple times and the operator who ran the topwara base was later killed by DOCTOR RAYGAR from the Ewoks cartoon. I’m sorry but even then I found that a bit weird, at least rouge one’s events felt largely distinct from the main cast

ITT this thread

I liked GQuuuuuuX.
It might have flaws, but underneath it all it's a sincere love story.
Disney Star Wars sequels seem like a hate story.

>alt UC
>gets all the OYW references out of the way before the first opening theme
Apologize.

>>23348234
The people who liked Star Wars, idiot

>>23348305
G-quack fucking ripped Amuro's fate from this too lol

>>23348305
Why apologize for a show that got cancelled and is the most hated AU in Japan?

>>23348305
It also didn't butcher newtypes. Though then again I'd even take SEED's interpretation of that idea over this one

I'd like to see a criticism of GQuuuuuuX that doesn't seem petty.
I had a few small problems with it, I didn't like some things about the Psycho Gundam (thoughts that would be complex to explain), I don't like the retcon about Minovsky particles enhancing Newtype psychic abilities (also for complex reasons), Shuji and Machu's romance didn't quite work for me...
But Char and Lalah's love story did.
Amuro undoing the death of Lalah by his sheer willpower, just like he diverted the Axis asteroid, did.
The show on the whole worked for me.
It had soul and heart, even if it was a hot mess.
And because of its alt-UC premise its very easy to just dismiss if you don't like it.

Complaining about its "nostalgia-bait" at this point is just like ...
Come on dude.

>>23348329
The funny thing is that its probably just a few guys doing this, everywhere else I haven’t seen much people complaining other than a few saying that maybe they should’ve toned down the call backs for newer viewers to understand, I think it’s forced cynicalism alongside the ENDLESS TRASH type posts to the point it’s very dishonest

>>23347852
The issue isn't actually regarding "pandering", the prequels also had tons of OT pandering, but TFA did a much bigger effort to attempt to recreate the original Trilogy's Aesthetics and atmosphere.

I think what really led to people souring on it though is both a combination of the pay off in the later two sequels being bad and that in order to bring back that OT style and atmosphere they complained about the prequels lacking they had to basically make the OT itself and its characters pointless or failures, which people only seemed to realize when the later movies came out.

>>23348295
Well it's certainly more coherent because the old EU couldn't keep it's story straight on how the Rebels got the Death Star plans. My personal choice has always been Kyle Katarn stole them in Dark Forces and everything else was irrelevant. If I can say one nice thing about Rogue One is that it's laser focused on the Death Star hunt from minute one. And the battle at the end because of course I liked the battle, it was pretty good. I'm bitter bastard but cool spaceships killing each other in cool ways still sparks joy.
>>23348329
I do think the pacing is whack, even if it's on purpose. The finale felt like a 23 minute infodump. Also the actual alternate timeline is underdeveloped I think, but that's probably because we missed some of the court intrigue that happened after the OYW. Artesia being Queen of Zeon feels like an asspull but they were intentionally being vague about her whereabouts so that was whatever. I don't like most of the music, the OP never grew on me, the ED's nice, the actual soundtrack though I don't remember any of it. Those are the ones off the top of my head.

>>23348156
>the Star Wars sequels tried their very best to get rid of the old characters to sell you new characters and CONTENT
I know that "let the past die" line from TLJ is very infamous but the reality is that those movies didn't try nearly hard enough to distance themselves from the OT. In fact, they didn't try at all. Even TLJ was still guilty of hardcore plagiarism after that line dropped. The sequels were more like one of those on rails ride or show at a theme park that encourage audience participation. Rey is very much a self-insert for the fans, she gets to be great at everything and briefly mentored by Han and Luke and Leia and the whole rebellion loves her and she fights "Darth Vader" and the emperor and is never in any real danger and gets to be the greatest Jedi ever for very little in the way of effort.
It's no different from Gquacks. By the halfway mark nobody gives a fuck about Machu, she's only here to ferry (You) from clapbait to clapbait.

>>23348343
NTA
It can also be argued that Disney's Star Wars isn't trying at all to be "Star Wars".
It's trying to literally bait Star Wars fans with "Star Wars nostalgia" into watching a Disney product.

>>23348399
If this is a Disney product where’s the musical numbers?

>>23348353
>Those are the ones off the top of my head.
I was listing my complaints as examples of petty issues that don't exactly matter.

>>23348400
The Star Wars sequels would be better if they had musical numbers.
But you know what I mean.
The Disney Star Wars movies aren't trying to be like "George Lucas' Star Wars", they're trying to be what Disney Corporation thinks Star Wars should be, then what they think "fans" want, power gap, and THEN a continuation of "George Lucas' Star Wars", in that order. Which if you're a fan of George Lucas' movies instead of Disney's Marvel is pretty fucking disappointing.

>>23348402
I mean that was kinda what I was doing too. Honestly I don't have any more substantial complaints yet because I just need to think about the show. It really was a lot in the final two episodes especially.

>>23348417
I forgot to include a picture of Vader holding up that guy on the ship, well joke ruined lol

>>23348436
lel

>>23347894
How young are you?

>>23347839
Only for the normalfags.

>This argument again
The plot structure was nothing like 0079; it just had a few significant call-backs. Sequel Wars was just a retread of the original trilogy with uninspired designs, that's why it sucks.

>>23348302
Nobody that animated gif rel loves UC Gundam

>>23348473
You're right, Gquuuuuux is more like Rise of Skywalker.

Endless meaningless references and callbacks but isn't retreading it's source material to a tee. It also failed to develop it's characters and conflicts properly like the sequels.

>>23348579
And what makes you say that?

>>23347834
You'd need to provide stats on SSRI usage in japan as well for me to consider it.

>>23347811 (OP)
It's literally okay when japan does it

>one is a continuation of a franchise that caused the audience to interests and many shows/series afterwards suffered from major flopped
>one is still doing just fine

>>23348693
>that caused the audience to interests and many shows/series afterwards suffered from major flopped
What?

>>23347892
The prequels didn't have a large fanbase until ironic appreciation through memes turned into unironic appreciation as the sequels came out.

>>23347908
It's funny and sad that they chose to kill off Luke and keep Leia, only for Fisher to die, so they had to resort to bringing back Harrison Ford one last time

>>23348726
The prequels made a bajillion dollars and the resulting flood of secondary material hooked anyone the movies didn't. You might not have been a big prequel fan, but you could've been a kotor fan or a pod racer fan or whatever. The sequels utterly failed to achieve this and they're just limping along with their shit never ending run of tv series.

>>23347811 (OP)
you're right but right is still better than most of TLJ

>>23348696
Star Wars fans are harsher towards the mediocre/bad shows, but every so often there's one good work that stops the franchise from totally sinking like Andor and S1 Mandalorian

>>23347892
>Nothing that makes me say I want a video game of that.
Was there even one besides the obligatory Lego tie-in?

>>23347892
this. I try to explain this to people as you described. I love the original trilogy because they are great films AND an exciting and imaginative setting. The prequels are a bit goofy as films but their setting is loads of fun; fanfiction, videogames, supporting cartoons, ship and soldier designs.
I like Gundam and StarWars as settings/"grand narratives", as well as individual projects. Gqux was fun to me and adds to my enjoyment. The sequel trilogy made me lose hope and become a racist.
sequels are just that stanky. >>23347867
yea this. nostalgia-bait IS a problem the sequels have, but it is overblown compared to the failure to deliver on ANY plot threads, the failure to stand on their own and failure to provide interesting world-building. Casino planet and salt-Hoth aren't enough new ideas for a feature-length starwars film. Also Luke astral projecting to death somehow isn't interesting or sane.
>>23347930
agree with all of this
>>23347968
and this. I've been on a star wars kick and just finished gquuuux and liked it. I feel like Gundam is in a better spot than star wars at the moment for this reason
>Star Wars was handed over to people who hate its fanbase

sorry to mass reply basically just agreeing but it is refreshing seeing non-retarded starwars takes. Sometimes I forget that Gundam fans are the coolest StarWars fans

>>23348473
>a few significant call-backs
The entire last third of the show hinges on Mobile Suit Gundam (1979)'s plot, the new characters barely matter to the story and are pathetically underdeveloped.

>>23348317
Really? You'd think the opening themes alone would elevate it quite a bit compared to stuff like AGE.

>>23347811 (OP)
>nustarwars
>nostaligiabait
Nigga you serious? Disney star wars has been all about anti nostalgia, it's about shitting on the lucas films.

>>23348795
>are pathetically underdeveloped
You didn't watch the show.

>>23348813
I was just thinking about this yea.
There actually is barely any "nostalgia bait" in the sequel movies. There IS a ton of it in the shows and spin off movies like Rogue One and Solo, but most of that stuff came after they tanked the brand with the sequels.
The sequels aren't nostalgia bait so much as they're simply bad sequels.

>>23348817
Rogue One was about retconning dark forces and with it the jedi knight series. It too was anti nostalgia. If it was about nostalgia baiting at the very least Kyle Katarn should have shown up somewhere.

>>23347848
Really funny how Fukui compared himself to Abrams but say what you will about Unicorn at least it’s original characters were relevant players in it’s plot.

>>23347931
>Having a flashback scene that’s meant for people who’ve only seen the theatrical movies counts as nostalgiabait.

>>23348821
Fuck. You're right. I forgot the point of it was literally to retcon Dark Forces.
I still say it's more nostalgia baity than the sequels proper, having all these classic ships, the embarrassing CG de-aging and Darth Vader wank, but you're right it absolutely is anti-fan.

>>23348834
Calling CCA nostalgia bait is one of the more egregiously retarded posts I've seen on /m/. It's direct sequel story.
It's like calling World War 2 nostalgia bait for World War 1.

>>23347811 (OP)
>:|
>:O
Get banned.

>>23348814
Something about the show resonated with you more than most people so you've invented headcanons and excuses to flesh out the skeletal characters that are present in the actual material.

>>23347972
>it actually has creatives that arent afraid to take risks
Yes, and jumping off of a plane without a parachute or running naked through an active war zone are also "taking risks" but that doesn't validate them as good ideas either

>>23348821
>Rogue One was about retconning dark forces
There were at least 5-6 different stories about how the Death Star I's plans were stolen in Legends, each of which were mutually contradictory with each other.
>Dark Forces game
>Star Wars X-Wing game
>Lethal Alliance game
>Battlefront II game
>Rebel Dawn book
>Empire at War game

>>23348851
Sure, but Rogue One took the name of Kyle's female sidekick Jan Ors, turning it into Jyn Erso. It was meant as a snub to Dark Forces.

>>23348814
Shuji is a noncharacter, dissappears for several episodes then returns out of nowhere at the very end as the BBEG. After killing Lalah countless times, resulting in the destruction of several universes, he completely changes his mind when some random girl he barely even knew gives him a kiss. If you think this is a good character in any way, shape or form, kill yourself.

>>23348851
It's more complicated than that. Most of those other instances of plans being stolen never actually see them make their way into the hands of the rebels. There are a couple that do, but they are never referenced outside of themselves and are generally considered non-canon even for EU stuff.

>>23348762
>gundam fans who are star wars fans are cool

you know when you think about it the storm trooper really is just a shrunk down zaku who can talk and walk around. it makes sense we would like both

>>23348761
I’m honestly not sure, I know when star wars battlefront EA 1 came out, half of that game was sequel content which is why I didn’t buy the dlc and never got the sequel. the sheer hubris to make the first star wars battlefront game in a decade and for them to omit clone wars battle in favor of sequel settings was too much for me.

>>23348891
Actually the first EA Battlefront was just Original Trilogy stuff, and Rogue One shilling with the Scarif map and characters. The second one had all three eras, and the Clone Wars got most of the love with all the differen Clone legions and shit. The only reason they didn't add more is because EA killed it so DICE could make the criticically acclaimed avant-garde masterpiece that is Battlefield 2042.

>>23348813
The sequels were kind of schizophrenic in its nostalgia baiting. There was a lot 'Hey remember X character?' and it was treated like some epic return only for the overall narrative to shit on those same characters and make them pathetic failures.

>>23349023
My favorite was them bringing back geriatric Billy Dee Williams and Denis Lawson just to give them like, 5 minutes of screen time in Episode 9. Why even bother at that point?

>>23349036
The funniest thing about Lando is that they planned to have a subplot about that ex-Stormtrooper girl being his long lost daughter but they cut out the entire subplot EXCEPT for the climax so at the end of TROS when he talks to her the movie treats it like an important moment when they meet.

The fundamental difference is that Gundam already has AU's and fans have accepted it.

What Star Wars needs to do is "tell the story of other Galaxies, far far away."

At least that's what Disney should have done. Create a different Mythos regarding the Force. Hell, they could've created a whole different concept that involved a role-reversal.

Or if they could not do that. Just do Zeta Gundam, but in Star Wars wherein the First Order is a Heroic faction and Ben/Kylo is there to purge the New Republic of the Extremist Resistance.

>>23348241
>all got discontinued
They're still there, retard

>>23349328
Sounds interesting, give the resistance a different name something like “the republic peacekeepers” based on the GAC’s from legends but also making them equivalent to what the titan’s are from zeta

>>23349410
Adding onto my post, the resistance could still exist a counter to the peacekeepers but are then helped out by the first order hinting at the Galactic Federation Triumvirate, alongside the Jedi showing up again

>>23347811 (OP)
This isnt twitter. Fuck off with your meme formulas

>>23347811 (OP)
I genuinely don't understand how Disney failed to have a cohesive vision BEFORE they started filming. Ep 8 shat the bed so hard that I never bothered going to the cinemas for Ep 9.

>>23347892
The prequels were cash grabs that Lucas shit out because he needed the money after his divorce. They were universally hated at the time and for good reason. People only act like they're good now because Disney managed to butcher the IP so much worse.

>>23349628
Nah dude you’re wrong. lots of people watched the prequels and liked them. My guess is there was a loud amount of fans who grew up with the OT decades earlier and they started tweaking out over how to them it wasn’t Star Wars. the average person thought it was an enjoyable movie even if it was flawed. The prequels were what got me back into starwars at an age where I was getting bored of it. just say you didn’t like the movies and stop being a revisionist. yeah I’m aware a lot of older fans didn’t like it. But they probably wouldn’t have liked just about any starwars film at that point.

If the next starwars movie had not been about Han like Leia, etc, fans would have gotten mad about a new cast. If it had been set in the same time period as the OT but had a different cast of characters, lots of people would have been bitching about it. the PT wasn’t a cash grab. There are way easier ways to do a cash grab. the world they built in the PT looks like starwars but in a way that’s also vastly different showing you a different era of that world. they could have been lazy but tried doing something radically different. Yeah of course older fans didn’t like it like I said either way they wouldn’t have liked it. But they did something cool that a lot of other people liked a lot. oh well you can’t please everyone.

>>23348931
Well either way it was boring, this was a decade ago but it shipped with like 4 maps of which they made some sub variants of the same area. to me the sequel stuff all looks the same. Rogue one as far as I’m concerned is just sequel era shit. just on principle I never gave them money for the second game. waited long enough for the first. Still never played the second one.

Yeah I never looked into the second game, all I remember was more insane shit like locking everything behind lootboxes to the point that for some reason Germany or some country banned the game or something leading to them taking out all the lootboxes. Honestly fuck that company and fuck modern starwars. The reason they shut the game down is probably because of the lootboxes getting removed. just a depressing time we live in. nothing can simply work or be made well.

>>23349628
>that Lucas shit out because he needed the money after his divorce
He divorced in 1983, and didn't remarry until 2013

>>23349588
Lucas gave Disney his plans for the sequel movies, but they completely ignored them and made up their own shit. He was understandable pissed off.

I miss the prequels era man.
I don't care if critics or 20 year old OT fans at the time thought the movies were bad.
It was a fun world to imagine.
Now it's hard to imagine anything fun at all, and I had to deal with what felt like all of Western culture saying "You were wrong to imagine things and have fun that way, child" with the RLM reviews, then the Disney buyout and their feministic sequels.
So fuck all of western culture I guess.

>>23349717
>with what felt like all of Western culture saying "You were wrong to imagine things and have fun that way, child" with the RLM reviews
Why are you retards so fucking dramatic about everything?

>>23349719
That was my experience.

>>23349719
The RLM TPM review did explicitly attack people who liked the prequels when they were kids.
https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI?feature=shared&t=28
I don't know anyone who likes the prequels who didn't also like the originals, so he's making up some kind of boogey man, but it's clear the reviews were written with hostility towards people who enjoyed the prequel movies as kids.

>>23349793
>>23349717
The prequels have been vindicated by the shittiness of more recent entries. Much like SEED

>>23349793
>did explicitly attack people who liked the prequels
>but it's clear the reviews were written with hostility
And? That's just how people talk about this stuff on the Internet, especially back in the late 2000s when those vids first came out. "You're wrong, and also you're a gay retard with shite taste," is hardly unique to RLM. A normal person responds by going, "fuck you too," and moving on with their day
The constant gravitational pull of this specific set of videos whenever the Star Wars prequels get talked about is just utterly bizarre

>>23349818
Yeah that would be real nice if it were true, except there is literally rlm threads up in this board right now.

>>23349804
It doesn't matter to me that the prequels ended up looking better than the sequels at all.
I've been thoroughly chewed out by mainstream western culture for liking the prequels when I was 5.
If the message is that "fun's over" message received.

>>23349818
RLM are spiritually ugly ingrates who have degraded mainstream cultural discourse past the point of recovery.

>>23349818
It's ok for people who are roughly the same age, and are friends, with the same sense of humor to call each other "gay idiot retards" and say "fuck you too!" and move on with their day, that's understandable.
But RLM were like in their 30, and I was in highschool at the time, so it was like having a 30 year old call me a gay retard.
That's NOT something you "just move on with your day" from.

I laughed at the RLM prequel reviews at the time (they are filled with crass and juvenile humor, ideal for people a decade younger than RLM were) and generally agreed with their opinions, even if a part of me was wincing and died. The part of me that enjoyed the prequels without a sense of shame or having to come up with excuses.
But then th sequels ended up being total fucking dogshit, while apparently following the advice of RLM and what Disney thought the "fans wanted"
If the critiques in RLM's reviews resulted in better Star Wars films, I wouldn't care half as much.
But they resulted in something awful.

RLM did something horrible.

>>23349845
>except there is literally rlm threads up in this board right now.
Yes, thus the comment on the bizarre way that nothing ever seems to be able to escape these 15+ year old videos
>>23349936
>But RLM were like in their 30, and I was in highschool at the time, so it was like having a 30 year old call me a gay retard.
>That's NOT something you "just move on with your day" from.
Are you kidding? A 30-something Star Wars neckbeard calling your taste bad on the Internet should not be a deeply affecting experience, man. Comic Book Guy calling some teenager a scrub for not having his autismo tastes is absolutely something they can just move on from
>and generally agreed with their opinions
>The part of me that enjoyed the prequels without a sense of shame or having to come up with excuses.
If you agreed with what they were saying, and were having to come up with excuses as to why you still liked the movies, then how are *they* the ones in the wrong here?

>>23349979
I mean apparently it was enough that lucasfilm used RLM’s playbook for the sequel trilogy if rumors are true

>>23349986
>that lucasfilm used RLM’s playbook
It is very silly to give RLM individual credit for just voicing the library of long-standing complaints which fanboys had been throwing out since the movies debuted

I'm kind of amazed the RLM prequel vidoes passed me by as a kid honestly, when the first one released that's around the time I started using teh interwebz frequently. In hindsight they're just an Internet relic I don't find all that interesting like old AVGN videos.

>>23349979
>If you agreed with what they were saying, and were having to come up with excuses as to why you still liked the movies, then how are *they* the ones in the wrong here?
I thought I agreed with them -- at the time -- but then the sequels came out and I realized they were not only COMPLETELY in the wrong, but they had successfully attacked my ability to enjoy things with the kind of carefree joy I used to have.
I DESPISE them.
>A 30-something Star Wars neckbeard calling your taste bad on the Internet should not be a deeply affecting experience, man.
I was a teenager.
It's actually not ok for 30 year old manchildren to berate high school students for liking fantasy movies wrong.

>>23347811 (OP)
GQ has the merit of being part of an entirely different continuity. The SHITquels on the other hand ruined every gain made by Luke, Han, and Leia during the OT.
Also, Bandai can milk GQ for shekels while the SHITquels are a unmerchandisable creative blackhole.

>>23350045
>I thought I agreed with them -- at the time -- but then the sequels came out and I realized they were not only COMPLETELY in the wrong
The later movies being shite didn't retroactively invalidate all of the complaints people had with the prequels. I mean, there are plenty of really dodgy takes throughout the RLM vids (and a more general structural issue where they're blending sincere points with throwaway joke points in such a way that it becomes hard to tell when they want you to treat an argument seriously or when they're just joking around), but the major substantive points that everyone brought up at the time still definitely hold true
>but they had successfully attacked my ability to enjoy things
That's just on you for being really easily led
>It's actually not ok for 30 year old manchildren to berate high school students
It's the Internet. He is, as you say, a manchild talking about Star Wars. Again, your response should not be for it to actually get to you, your response should be, "fuck you too, nerd"
You're talking about it like he's coming up to you personally in the street and giving you a dressing down, when this is just some guy making a YouTube video saying, "kids are fucking IDIOTS"

I understand that it’s easy to shit on the sequels, but let’s not forget that Legends also made the Empire come back with Palpatine resurrected and everything. And then right when that ended aliens from another galaxy came in and fucking killed everyone and they were basically the Tyranids from 40k. They also got an exponentially larger body count than the empire did (300 trillion)

>>23350233
...is this supposed to be bad?

>>23350238
The bad part is that they were a Mary Sue who are immune to the Force for some reason and also they use zero mechanical technology. EVERYTHING from their weapons to their ships is biologically engineered organisms. They don’t even use guns.

>>23350248
There were already species immune to the Force before and after the Vong.

I think part of the deciding factor if a new starwars entry or gundam entry is good is this simple metric: if teenagers and young adults watch the movie, and say “this is sick I want to own a bunch of figures of all of this shit” it passes the benchmark. Not just one or two designs but the majority of what gets introduced. If it gets them to say “this is fucking cool I want video games based on this setting so I can interact with this” it’s passed the benchmark. People want more of it. Yes on one level its consoomerism but if a new entry is not giving you constant a tier designs it probably was not given the level of attention and thought it needed and probably did not need to get made. So the designs to me are like a clue of what to expect. Now A tier or S tier entry of anything is only going to be giving you C tier and below crap with one or two b tiers and maybe one a tier in it. Just doesnt happen.

>>23350166
GQuuux is unrelated for now, but apparently its doing pretty well in Japan, and if Bandai gets too many yen signs in its eyes....

>>23349680
The divorce was settled in 1987 and the prequels were publicly announced in 1993.

>>23347892
the plot of AotC was about an army of Boba Fetts made to justify one throwaway line in the original movie. The sequels are awful but that doesn't make the prequels better

>>23350392
And Yoda is friends with Chewbacca because people like Chewbacca. Also the droids are in this story because people like them a lot too. There's as much cynical nostalgia pandering in the prequels as in the sequels, but the latter doesn't get to lean on heading towards the OT as a safety net. Honestly it is still hilarious how Palaptine just has an iconic movie villain outfit ready to slap Anakin into plus a Death Star for him and Tarkin to look over for a few minutes.

>>23350456
The Death Star at the end of Episode 3 could be a few years, that would explain both it being half finished and the fact that there are ISD's floating around. The suit though yeah that's really funny.

>>23350219
I am avoiding talking about why Star Wars was important to me.
But nothing about this situation is acceptable.
"Oh it's ok for RLM to be complete cocks because it's the internet" is no excuse for their behavior.

>>23350289
I actually fundamentally disagree with this, because I don't think healthy adults should watch any piece of media and think "this is so sick, I need to buy toys".
Star Wars was for children. Gundam was for children.
Both actually had appeal for young women, fujos, and (at least with the original Star Wars movies) both Star Wars and Gundam were interesting enough as stories that adult men could find them entertaining.
But they were primarily for children.

And I am starting to really despise media made by and for adults who have the mindset of children.

>>23347958
>And then you have stuff like Leia ignoring Chewie like they don't even know each other, which is a bizarre mistake.
Even Lego Star Wars had to poke fun at that.

>>23347811 (OP)
Did the new Gundam replace a more beloved EU?

>>23350670
This. Plenty of "child" media can ave great themes or writing. There's shows like Avatar Last Airbender which captured adults and kids alike. Kids aren't megageniuses but they aren't dumb and many can handle heavy themes.

>>23348061
Gquacks is an AU, Sunrise can just leave it hanging and lose nothing, Disney made the only canon Star Wars universe an unprofitable wreck.

>>23348285
Somehow…… Palpatine returned.

>>23350233
The Vong are better antagonists than the First Order and Shuji.

I thought /m/ would be the one board on 4chan to love the Sequels specifically because they shit on the OT and Prequels. We all know how /m/ feels about all media made before 2010.

>>23350821
There is nothing to like about the sequels, the only people that talk about them have some sort of vitriolic american centered agenda or waifufags.

>>23350821
Weird bait, but ok.

>>23350670
I didn’t use the word need I said the word want. And it isn’t about if the person actually buys the toys or buys the video game. (Are you going to say adult men can’t buy video games or play those too?) it’s about the designs and the universe being interesting enough and a high enough quality that the merchandise is appealing and not something viewed as trash to most people or junk that sits on store shelves because it’s mass produced crap destined for a landfill.


I have argued this with plenty of people that while starwars has an interesting story and that has its own appeal—- all of the most popular famous sci-fi franchises also have really good designs. People see darth vader or a tie fighter and they think wow that looks really cool I want to watch this movie. People see all of these great designs and they think wow this universe is really cool. The story is important but the universe being full of things that are well designed are a big part of hooking people enough that they watch an entire trilogy of films.

It isn’t just starwars it’s gundam or it’s evangelion. A big part of why these franchises succeed and entirely separate to the plot are designs that make people say wow I really like the way that looks a lot. I never said NEED. like a funko pop collector. I said want. As in wow I would not mind having this on a shelf. Or wow I would like a game of this so I can interact with all of these great designs and amazing set pieces and so I can use these awesome weapons or drive this fucking cool ships.

>>23350821
Fuck off retard

>>23350831
Like look at fucking warhammer 40k? How many people got into warhammer and the LORE of warhammer and the STORY of warhammer, because at some point they saw what a SPACE MARINE is? Don’t bother saying that isn’t what happened because it’s probably the most common entry point. Warhammer 40k has a bunch of different factions but the most important feature is if people think this shit looks cool or not. If the space marines looked retarded and the weapons didn’t look cool and the vehicles didn’t look cool and the factions didn’t look cool, what percentage of people who talk about how good the warhammer novels are would have even ended up reading those stories in the first place?

>>23350850
A lot of people like the Orks.

>>23350233
Dark Empire was controversial, with likers and dislikers, but it's commonly agreed to be better than Rise of Skywalker.

>>23350900
At least it had cool giant robots.

>>23350871
Orks are a weird exception (which is what the point of them are in 40k) but you already knew that when you posted. but even a lot of ork designs look cool for what they are with the aesthetic they have for some of their machines with the bolted on parts and sheet metal everywhere. It’s like a mad max approach. The orks are also a good foil to the other factions. If the orks existed in a vacuum I don’t think many people would have an ork collection, but as an opposing lolsorandomXD hahaha waaaagh faction in the setting of 40k which is overly serious, it has its own appeal.

>>23350665
You genuinely have severe autism and should not be on a site this volatile if even something as tame as movie criticism traumatizes you

>>23350248
>They don’t even use guns.
How old are you?

>>23350990
Anon, this might come as a shock you, but 4chan is actually one of the nicer places on the internet.
At least it's honest here.
I don't have to bend over backwards and self flagellate just to have a conversation like on normalfag sites.

Plus the RLM reviews came out like 16 years ago.
I was a highschooler when they came out, so you do the math.

>>23350248
Soulless aliens being immune to space soul magic sounds about right.
>EVERYTHING from their weapons to their ships is biologically engineered organisms. They don’t even use guns.
That sounds sick. I fucking love biotech.

>>23347811 (OP)
People actually liked The Force Awakens when it came out, its retrospect that makes it awful because now we know nothing it sets up had any direction at all. It sowed seeds which The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker failed to cultivate into something satisfying so when people look back at it now they rightly see it as the source of the issues. But at the time, when it came out, people fell for the nostalgiabait and lauded it.

GQ doesn't need a sequel(s) to make it satisfying, it isn't full of unresolved mystery boxes for future films to bungle, its self contained and satisfying as is, thus will be remembered fondly unlike the Star Wars sequel trilogy which will always be reviled.

>>23350665
>"Oh it's ok for RLM to be complete cocks because it's the internet"
Well, that and because it's an overall fairly comedic video where he pretends to be a mentally ill elderly person, and being rude and inflammatory is the joke. All the signs are there that you shouldn't be taking him too seriously when he says kids who like the movie are idiots

>>23348328
Doesn't SEED have newtypes they just aren't important or mentioned or anything, but they are there

>>23351492
Yes. Kira, Shinn and Mu are newtypes

>>23351433
>It's self contained
No it isn't, it is EXPLICITLY an overarching UC consuming plot

>who are you?
>Nyaan
>nyaan who?
>Nyaaan Ray

>>23351527
>Somehow, Char counterattacked

>>23351130
You being in your 30s doesn't change how embarrassingly sensitive you are

>>23349717
I'm going to tell you something.
Star Wars was a much more fun world to imagine before the prequels. When it was just the original trilogy and a few books, it felt like Star Wars could be anything.

Everything you have said about the series getting worse with the Disney trilogy also applies to the prequels.

>>23349936
>But RLM were like in their 30, and I was in highschool at the time, so it was like having a 30 year old call me a gay retard.
>That's NOT something you "just move on with your day" from.
I spent my teenage years arguing with grown men on forums, repeatedly getting called a stupid faggot by men who should have a wife and children.
Yeah, it's something you move on from.

Also you're genuinely insane if you think the sequel trilogy had fucking anything to do with someone watching fucking RedLetterMedia and going "yeah we should listen to these guys."

>>23349793
Those reviews are filled with bullshit and manipulative tricks. Take their "test". That entire segment is retarded. It's perfectly easy to describe prequel characters by character traits rather than biographical information, which anyone who's seen the prequels and has the capacity to think for themselves can figure out by thinking about it for two seconds longer than Plinkett wants you to. It's just one expression of a pretty common flaw with Plinkett's reviews - using comedy and delivery to cover for the relatively weaker points.

If the argument is that it's not that the character lacks traits like personality and behavior and mindset, but that the audience doesn't remember it as well, that's just a long-winded up one's own ass way of saying the movie as a whole isn't as good or memorable - which is true, but a pretty shallow point to take like ten fucking minutes to make for a review purporting itself to be in-depth and thorough. Which brings me, again, to why I don't like those reviews - they use comedy and delivery to pad out what are often pretty shallow points or nothing more than restating the premise..

>>23349717
The prequel era itself was a golden age in Star Wars. Not just massively financially successful sales but expanded universe material. Comics from Dark Horse, video games like KotOR, Jedi Academy and Battlefront, it was hype as fuck.

>>23351562
>I spent my teenage years arguing with grown men on forums, repeatedly getting called a stupid faggot by men
Hey man if you got daddy issuses this really isn't the place to talk about it.

>>23347811 (OP)
I hated both

I legit don't know if I give this show a 5 or 6. On one hand, I was entertained the whole way through. On the other hand..... yeah this kinda sucks on anything after the first movie.

>>23351562
Not him but there's at least some
>I'm afraid of them
involved

>>23351567
Definitely manipulative. I'm fucking baffled anyone could've earned a degree in that while not knowing basic fundamentals. Despite what the filmmaking failures at RLM would have you believe, going into preproduction without a script isn't a big deal and is extremely common. George had the ideas and general concepts realized, and already envisioned many of the scenes (the Podrace, Naboo exodus and return, the Maul duel) long before a single letter was typed out. The purpose of a script is to logically tie all the envisioned set pieces together, and if you faggots had actually written a script before, or at least studied script writing, you'd know the basic tool most writers use is to put their plot points and scene concepts on index cards and arrange them into a rough narrative so you know where you're going before you actually sit down to write the script, which is usually one of the last things you do during preproduction.

That out of context scene Stoklasa used in his PM review of George saying he doesn't have a script yet is disingenuous Michael Moore tier baiting. George didn't have a script written yet, but he had a table like pic related with the plot already created with index cards. Stoklasa either knew this and still tried to portray George as an incompetent buffon, meaning Stoklasa is a little weasel fuck intentionally tricking his audience, or he didn't know it, meaning Stoklasa is a stupid retard who didn't do his research.

Which just reiterates my first point. This is basic shit, you don't need to have the script 100% prepared to have a general sense of where each scene flows into the next. Preproduction is where script is finalized so this can be anywhere from coming into preproduction with a hundred prepared scripts or making or rewriting the script during this time.

>>23351589
Wow, thank you for sharing screencaps from some other forum, this is really enlightening stuff!

>>23349804
Something being worse than another thing that was bad does not make that bad thing retroactively good.

>>23351433
TFA hardly sowed good seeds.
>Reducing everything the OT cast fought for to another OT Rebels vs Empire
>the First Order's super weapon was destroyed in the first film and unlike the Empire, they're not the dominant galactic superpower before the start of the story and can feasibly take this casually
>Rey already defeats Kylo Ren without help in a lightsaber duel, begging the question where does she develop and why does she need training when she's already this strong
>Kylo allegedly injured but his movements show no sign of impediment, implying the choreographer didn't get the memo and he's healthy during the fight
>Finn is supposed to be a First ORder defector but shows no restraint killing his fellow stormtroopers
>Poe doesn't exist for most of the film
>everything Luke built is gone and Luke, even though his order's destruction was years ago, failed to warn the Republic about a dark side threat he knows exists and would surely threaten millions of lives
>brag about practical effects but had more CGI than TPM and less practical effects than any of the PT, thus clear willingness for false advertisement
It was the wrong foot on so many levels.

>>23347882
TFA's insulting in that even on release, I thought it was a bad clone that knew nothing about what ANH did right. Take politics. TFA avoids them like the plague even at the cost of the setting making no sense. ANH had the Death Star council scene explaining how the Death Star fits the Empire as a fearmongering tool to keep systems in line. When we have a 30 year old blueprint for what to do and still botch what the original gets right, there's no confidence to be had in this direction.

>>23351575
Don’t forget the immersive kino that was Star Wars republic commando.

RC, BF, KOTOR was a real triple threat. To this day RC is the gold standard as far as I’m concerned in how a franchise can make a spin off entry focusing on a small squad of troops. If halo had made halo ODST play closer to RC it would have initially gotten backlash — but once people played it they would have eventually agreed it felt more immersive than playing as a single ODST which ended up feeling like you are still masterchief. If you could give contextual commands to your odsts to take cover and to breach, snipe from X position, you would have felt like the leader of a real ODST squad. I liked halo odst but the point remains that it played too much like the original halo games and most of the time you still felt like a spartan. Just one that gets a red visual filter when you get hurt.

>>23351433
>It sowed seeds
It had the illusion of sowing seeds. Lost and now the sequels are proof that Abrams' mystery boxes never actually had anything in them.

>>23351661
JJ and his Hollywood faggot friends were always dogshit. If you see Kurtzman Orci on Lindeloff in anything it's guaranteed to be hot trash and I watched them ruin Alien, Trandformers, Star Trek and Star Wars.

>>23347817
The only people who like gcucks are shit eaters and contrarians.

>>23351654
>If halo had made halo ODST play closer to RC it would have initially gotten backlash — but once people played it they would have eventually agreed it felt more immersive than playing as a single ODST which ended up feeling like you are still masterchief.
True enough. Due to using the same engine and not removing crap like ripping turrets off tripods and punching boarded tanks until they explode, they created the most hilarious elite non-supersoldiers evert.

To the point where it's a joke in some places that Spartans are pussies next to ODSTs because Spartans need power armor to achieve feats of strength ODSTs casually do. And turret carrying s[peed is faster in ODST so it's easy to make jokes Spartans and their fancy augments and power armor are physical inferiors to ODSTs in some areas. What a money laundering conspiracy these supersoldiers are.

>>23351661
>>23351665

>>23351710

>>23351670
>scat and cuckoldry in a single sentence
Your porn addiction is starting to show.

>>23351661
>>23351665
>>23351710
>>23351714
This is actually a decent point about JJ's past record.

For background, the Star Trek films he did weren't meant to be one and done successes. It was meant to have growth into a franchise. The gold standard would be the MCU, where Disney thought it Age of Ultron was a failure not because it didn't make boatloads of money but because they wanted great growth like revenue charts are a flight of stairs. JJ did not set up Star Trek nor Star Wars on that direction. This isn't to say Rian has no blame but JJ's past record with Star Trek show he doesn't have much success giving the incremental movie franchise growth the execs want.

>>23347811 (OP)
It's amazing people thought Anno was the man for the job after Rebuilds controversy.

>>23351733
A bunch of teens shitposting on /a/ is hardly a controversy.

>>23351575
>>23351654
>we don't have enough source material
What was the point of purchasing this franchise with so much EU material if they were going to say they don't have source material? And it's not like their plots dont' steal from the EU.

Maybe they should've tried a Star Wars like Gundam AUs or something. Many shows have a huge problem with foregone conclusions and restrictions. At least something where the originals, the EU, and all the others are their own individual thing and intact even if you want to do your own take.

>>23347811 (OP)
I would've preferred a Star Wars Zeta Gundam over the ST. The Republic has become corrupt and created its own Titans, Leia is leading the AEUG Resistance, and the First Order returns like Axis Zeon. It'd be an original direction and be the Zeta Gundam to the OT's 0079. But I know the Mouse would never do this idea justice.

>>23351549
FUck it. You asked for this.
I grew up in an abusive household. I was physically abused, sexually abused, and this was all in the context of what was essentially a protestant Christian religious cult, growing up in which left me cripplingly sheltered.
The original Star Wars movies, and the prequels, which I were smack in the right demographic for (I was like 5 when I saw them) were, along with Lord of the Rings and extremely nerdy sci-fi shit like Issac Asimov, like the one really happy point in my extremely cucked existence.

So when the RLM reviews laid into those movies (a bunch of 30 year olds telling my suicidal highschool self why these movies that I loved and that fantasy world that was kind of my crutch for getting through life without wanting to kill myself were actually bad), and when I forced myself to agree with them because the reviews were popular (and to some extent I was self aware of how disadvantageously sheltered I was when I reached highschool, and thought to myself "I am sheltered: these guys must be more well adjusted than me + they're older so they must know what they're talking about) I was actually prepared to accept RLM's assessment and also that Star Wars was over. I now new the prequels weren't popular, and I accepted that George had made his 6 movies, told the story he wanted to tell, I liked it, normalfags didn't, but that's ok. I'm moving on with my life.

Then I hit college.
I was ready to move on from Star Wars but apparently Walt Disney corp. wasn't, and with their marketing wave they tried to make sure no one else was.
The sequels came out and they were terrible.
And not in a funny way, but in a way that felt like a hate campaign.
This made me re-evaluate the value of RLM's reviews which also came across in hindsight as degenerate and hateful.
And indeed, they have degenerated public discourse with their brand of self-loathing comedy "critique"

Don't be oversensitive when I tell you RLM were in the wrong.

>>23351787
>Here is my life story to explain why RedLetterMedia saying The Phantom Menace was bad deeply upset me
>"Don't be oversensitive"

>>23351788
Indeed.
Don't be.

>>23351787
>degenerate and hateful.
Their reviews carried more dishonesty and venom than some political hitjobs I've seen. I don't know what's their problem.

>>23347811 (OP)
At least the Disney Fanfic movies understood proper nostalgia pandering.

Just look at these overdesigned heaps of garbage. All they had to do was go with derivative designs of Zeta and Delta for a post-war UC AU world.

>>23351567
>with bullshit and manipulative tricks.
This always just reads like a cope from gullible people who are easily swayed by bad arguments, trying to desperately damage control and insist that these blatantly facile arguments were actually very sophisticated mind-games

>>23351824
>At least the Disney Fanfic movies understood proper nostalgia pandering.
Oh absolutely not. Nothing about its key jangling was sensical, and it was extremely disrespectful to both the OT and fans. They undid every sacrifice made in the OT and regressed the heroes to worse places than when they started off-screen just so someone else's mary sue OC could take all the credit while they all die in vain.

>>23351825
NTA, but one of the more manipulative things about the RLM reviews is the bad sense of humor.
All these jokes about Plinkett killing hookers in his bathroom, chopping up his dead wife, etc.
If the reviews didn't have that kind of stuff people would have called them out for being mouthbreather tier a lot sooner.
The RLM reviews are NOT a good-faith argument presented civilly, that an unaware person would be able to easily dismiss because of its low quality, they're presented as comedy.
You're laughing at the Plinkett character stuffing pizza rolls in his face and torturing hookers in his basement with Prequel action figures, you're laughing at his exaggerated comedy complaints about the prequels, and it helps dumbasses swallow the idea that trade disputes and senatorial politics were too complex for this children's movie.

>>23351868
>the idea that trade disputes and senatorial politics were too complex for this children's movie
Was it that they were too complex, or that they just weren't compelling?

>>23351870
It was compelling enough when I watched them. I can't relate to your inability to understand why the Trade Federation were bad, sorry.

TPM undermines any sense of urgency for Naboo's crisis by having its stopover on Tatooine depend on some kid's fucking soapbox derby. Also the Jedi suck at being the guardians of peace and justice if they can't even help one mother out of slavery. It'd be far more compelling if all their power failed to save Anakin's mom rather than leaving her in a bad place where of course she fucking dies.

>>23351892
>to your inability to understand why the Trade Federation were bad
They're bad because they send evil robots to shoot at the Jedi in the opening scene, the actual trade dispute has very little to do with it. Hell, it's only ever referred to twice in the entire movie, and one of those is in the title crawl ffs

>>23351904
>Also the Jedi suck at being the guardians of peace and justice if they can't even help one mother out of slavery
There's a reason they get genocided 13 years after the movie anon, the Jedi just suck in general at this point.

>>23351904
>Also the Jedi suck at being the guardians of peace and justice if they can't even help one mother out of slavery.
That's the point of the prequels.

>>23351911
>They're bad because they send evil robots to shoot at the Jedi in the opening scene
If this is your level of thinking you really deserved both the prequels and the sequels.

>>23351927
>If this is your level of thinking
It's what's actually in the movie, mate. 'They don't want to pay taxes to use these trade routes' isn't exactly heinous villainy. Sending a robot army to conquer Naboo and trying to gas Obi-Wan Kenobi is
>deserved both the prequels and the sequels
The Empire are bad because they blow up a planet and kill Luke's aunt and uncle, and their man dude is an evil samurai-wizard who strangles people with magic. They aren't especially complicated villains. The main difference is that ANH doesn't preface its big climactic battle with some fairly drawn-out scene about how there's no political solution

>>23351904
>Muh media literacy
They didn't stopover for fun, the hyperdrive got shot the fuck up when they escaped the blockade and they can't just fly normally to Coruscant. Watto had the T-11 and republic credits were no good there so Qui-gon had to improvise a way to get those parts. Anakin was just a bonus since they found out he had high Force bacteria.

>>23351941
Anon.
If you are arguing that the prequels weren't compelling because they weren't a simple black and white conflict, like you seem to be
You're a dumbass.

>>23351956
>arguing that the prequels weren't compelling because they weren't a simple black and white conflict, like you seem to be
No, I'm saying that the Trade Federation are a poor attempt at adding depth to what is ultimately a very simple faction of baddies. It makes allusions to deeper motives, but they don't especially matter and aren't very fleshed out. The extent of the trade dispute is summed up in the first 2 sentences of the title crawl. It's never elaborated upon. And the only relevance it has is in those senate scenes, the whole point of which is that the senate are useless and a waste of time, and the actual solution is to go and have a big battle with lots of special effects. What actually is relevant to the narrative is that they have an army of robots and have invaded this nice planet full of good guys
And that's probably why it then never gets brought up again in the next 2 movies. Even with the Trade Federation lingering on as villains, and getting new groups added like the Banking Clans and whatever, it never even makes an effort to hint at what their dispute with the Republic is supposed to be by the time of AotC. Because it doesn't fucking matter

>>23351825
We've had many posts like >>23351589 and >>23351598 both pointing out fundamental problems they have in their criticism which

There's much more. In The Phantom Menace review he goes on for a long time about the Trade Federation landing its ground forces on Naboo and gripping about landing their troop transports on the far side of the planet, thousands of miles away from Naboo's capital. He's not really thinking about military strategy, not taking into account of Theed having a major spaceport housing hundreds of military ships (with the city perhaps equipped with turbo laser emplacements and shield projections, making it more costly for a direct landing from space). And a siege of Naboo does make sense, even if Naboo has advanced technology and a massive power core beneath their capital city - with no supply ships coming to the planet, how could the Naboo fix the high maintenance power cores and more sophisticated factories without spare parts? In his review of Nemesis he has a tired, cliche' Nerd Rage about Admiral Janeway, he accuses her of allying with the Borg and shows footage of her executing hostages. In that instance he's being manipulative, I'm not fooled that easily -Janeway is not the most likable captain, but she broke a deal with the Borg because Species 8472 were the greater evil, a clear and present danger to the galaxy, they had to be stopped and even Picard would've done same thing in the same situation. And RLM seems to put up footage of the fake "evil" Janeway from "Living Witness" as primary evidence. Janeway's not particularily dashing, but you don't falsify evidence to incriminate a criminal even if he/she's a criminal. Those are a couple the bigger reasons why RedLetterMedia is an overrated critic (he's a talented editor, he puts effort into constructing his reviews, and is generally better than ConfusedMatthew and the Distressed Watcher).

>>23351904
In the film their ship had the hyperspace components damaged and took a gamble. Tatooine was a dangerous place with possible parts they need but also dangerous enough that it's hard to follow them into it safely. A calculated risk.

>>23351980

TPM starts with a conflict over trade issues, as described in the opening. Naboo is shown to be a very wealthy place, and Palpatine is shown to be an important politician on this wealthy planet (who is in secret contact with the aggressors in the conflict - he had orchestrated the conflict to gain sympathy for Naboo in the galactic senate, and gain a shoe-in in his bid to replace the sitting chancellor).
There's some adventure, and then Padme and the Jedi escape to Tatooine, which shows the poverty Anakin is coming from, the disparity between his life and the ease of life in the Republic.
Then they get to Coruscant, which is shown to be a decaying inefficient bureaucratic democracy, beholden to money. The chancellor answers to the Trade Federation, which of course answers to Palpatine. Palpatine used his wealth and power to bring the entire galaxy under heel.
The Jedi are also shown to be austere, essentially Buddhists or Amish in their non-attachment doctrine, ignorant to Palpatine's political movements, and establishing that they don't particularly care for Anakin: he's a disruptive element to them.
The audience knows Anakin is going to grow up to become Vader...
So when the movie takes us back to Naboo, you get a story where Anakin sees himself as the underdog hero in the conflict saving a whole planet with the help of his newfound Jedi mentors.
But you also know the entire conflict is orchestrated by Palpatine for his own personal gain.

This is not only a solid first act in a trilogy about the forces that created Darth Vader, it's a simple but effective examination of democratic politics, which, as in Greece and Rome, inevitably become beholden to the whims of the wealthiest citizens, who, if they become tyrannical in their ambitions, will bring about collapse of the system.

You seem to be stuck on the conflict not being simple enough for you to be able to enjoy.

>>23351994
Yeah, I'm not denying there's loads of shit points in the RLM vids. I'm just bemused by the way some people seem to talk about having been 'tricked' by these vids as though they were actually very sophisticated rhetoric. When really, they just weren't being very critical when they watched them lmao
It's like, everyone brings up the 'describe a character' test thing from the first Star Wars review. Unless you have a single-digit IQ, it should've been immediately obvious why
>guy making video about how he hates Star Wars prequels gets his friends to also talk about how they hate Star Wars prequels
isn't exactly stellar critique. Being charitable, they're obviously going to give him the answers he wants. Being less charitable, they probably agreed beforehand roughly what they'd be saying. If that segment somehow swayed you, that's reflecting poorly on you

On the PT's release, I found myself more critical about the critics than the film. Could people really not wrap their heads around a corrupt politician allying with terrorists to further his own position? A post 9/11 world and they've never heard of a single Bush/Bin laden pen pal conspiracy theory? Were 2000s people that innocent?

>>23352011
I'm one of the people who thought they sucked all along. I never thought about them as compelling but I have thought of them as manipulative the way they edit footage. The way they'd edit Behind the Scenes footage to look like it supports when when it says completely different shit is crazy. They really watched the BTS then said Mustafar didn't have complex construction.

IMO someone who never watched the material they're butchering can easily be fooled into thinking they're well-sourced rather than manipulating footage.

>>23347817
People still talk about zeta though

>>23352011
Anon are you trying to defend RLM by arguing that their videos are stupid "but so are their viewers"

>>23352017
The kind of person who can manipulate and lie to the uninformed that
>no complicated construction project
was going on in the Mustafar fight while he grabs BTS footage out of context surely would've found the making of documentary for pic. I think it's hard to accidentally miss this footage when editing. It's highly likely a deliberate lie.

>>23352012
>Were 2000s people that innocent?
2000's people definitely were not.
It was the olds who wanted another WW2 story that complained.

>>23351980
>And that's probably why it then never gets brought up again in the next 2 movies. Even with the Trade Federation lingering on as villains, and getting new groups added like the Banking Clans and whatever, it never even makes an effort to hint at what their dispute with the Republic is supposed to be by the time of AotC. Because it doesn't fucking matter
More than anything I think this is the greatest weakness of the Prequels. There's just a skeleton of wider galactic politics. It's a great thing to expand upon with side material but in the movies themselves I don't think they devote as much time to them as they should. Like there's that cut scene from Episode 3 of Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma talking with other senators about how the Republic is spiraling out of control. Cut for time I'm sure but it's a useful scene for establishing the political situation. Plus there's that damn 'heroes on both sides' line from the opening crawl that feels so at odds with the movies itself. What heroes do the Separatists have? Dooku being their charismatic leader who's secretly a Sith Lord and General Grievous who's entire screentime is being a bloodthirsty maniac? Does the Separatist public look up to Nute Gunray as a paragon of virtue? Hell even in the Clone Wars cartoon the closest we get to that is Senator Bonteri and she gets assassinated for her trouble. Literally every other major Separatist character we is some kind of assassin or war criminal, but to be fair Anakin and Obi-Wan are also war criminals with how much perfidity they engage in. I get that the true believers are being taken for a ride by Palpamemes, even the corporate bankrollers are, but it is a little silly.

I'm saying this as a Dooku fanboy who thinks the CIS was right to rebel in the first place.

>>23352009
>TPM starts with a conflict over trade issues, as described in the opening
Yeah, the Jedi are there to deliver an ultimatum from the Senate. Of course, that ends up not mattering, because the TF just immediately try and kill them.
>Palpatine... he had orchestrated the conflict to gain sympathy for Naboo
>The chancellor answers to the Trade Federation, which of course answers to Palpatine.
True, which is a big contributor as to why all the stuff about the trade dispute ends up being so inconsequential. It's all just pretext for the Not-Yet-Emperor to make a power grab and eventually become the Emperor. Again, the Trade Federation themselves are just an evil army for the Republic to fight against.
>You seem to be stuck on the conflict not being simple enough for you
I have explicitly said multiple times that it is a very simple story about baddies with evil robots attacking the nice idyllic planet and trying to kill the Jedi (who we know are good because these are prequels, so we already have the meta knowledge from the original movies). I don't know why you keep insisting that I am outraged at them not being simple enough, when I am repeatedly saying that they are far more simple than you are trying to present. My entire point is that the Trade Federation's motives, the trade dispute and the politics around it, it's an angle of the movie which is very shallow and not very interesting. The movie itself is barely interested in it, it is just offhand pretext to show the audience how useless the Senate is. You could swap it out for basically anything and it wouldn't impact the overall narrative

>>23352020
>you trying to defend RLM
>by arguing that their videos are stupid
Are you for real?

>>23352029
Are (You)?

>>23352031
I'm sorry if you feel embarrassed that you uncritically accepted the points made by some asshole on YouTube 15 years ago, but you cannot pretend that these fucking vids were some great manipulative performance, rather than you just being easily won over into switching off your own critical faculties by some decent editing and a few funny gags

>>23352024
>which is a big contributor as to why all the stuff about the trade dispute ends up being so inconsequential.
Anon, the title of the movie is "The Phantom Menace" not "The Obvious Villain"
Trade Federation are cartoon villains compared to the complexity of real life, but they're a pretty solid way to depict, in a way kids could understand, how Palpatine could use political alliances with various factions, and pitting them against each other, as a smokescreen for his own ambitions.
>I have explicitly said multiple times that it is a very simple story about baddies with evil robots attacking the nice idyllic planet and trying to kill the Jedi
That's not what the story is about.
It's a story about a villain, Palpatine, inventing a simple good vs. evil story "Poor innocent Naboo, attacked by the evil Trade Federation" to use as propaganda and his own political leverage.
And you keep repeatedly showing yourself to be mad about that.

>>23352047
>Palpatine, inventing a simple good vs. evil story "Poor innocent Naboo, attacked by the evil Trade Federation" to use as propaganda and his own political leverage.
The funny part is even Alex Jones understood this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKm4ueVuxpY

>>23352036
You've been defending the reviews by saying "even though they were bad, they managed to convince people and those people are stupid".
This reflects more on you than anyone else.

>>23352047
>Anon, the title of the movie is "The Phantom Menace"
>how Palpatine could use political alliances with various factions, and pitting them against each other
Yeah. And so; "the trade disputes aren't compelling." Because the trade dispute doesn't matter, what matters is Not-Yet-Emperor starting a war so he can gain power.
>It's a story about a villain, Palpatine, inventing a simple good vs. evil story "Poor innocent Naboo, attacked by the evil Trade Federation" to use as propaganda
Right, but that is actually what is happening in the movie. Naboo is a poor innocent planet, the Trade Federation are, as you say, "cartoon villains." Yes, this is the situation Palpatine has created for his own ends. No, that does not suddenly make the Trade Federation more complicated, or the trade dispute more interesting. It makes *Palpatine* more interesting, it means he's a character with deeper motivations and more complex ideas at play. It just makes the TF basic puppets. Which is why I mentioned the other groups joining them in AotC, who don't even get as much exploration of what's driving them as the basic, "taxation of trade routes," the TF get. They're just there as Palpatine's lackeys. You could replace that one line in the title crawl with anything, and it wouldn't make the least bit of difference
>And you keep repeatedly showing yourself to be mad
Oh, wow, I thought >u mad bro stuff died in like 2014, that's a blast from the past

>>23352064
>"even though they were bad, they managed to convince people and those people are stupid"
'They're convincing, if you're stupid' isn't a defense at all, what the fuck are you on?

>>23352079
>Yeah. And so; "the trade disputes aren't compelling." Because the trade dispute doesn't matter, what matters is Not-Yet-Emperor starting a war so he can gain power.
That's how he started the war so he can gain power.
Not reading the rest of your post if the rest of it is going to be this low quality.

>>23352083
"people fell for immature jokes and edgy commentary when they were teenagers" isn't a real insult either, so the only thing you could be doing is defending RLM.
Probably because of your own insecurities, related to your personally identifying with their brand of vitriol.

>>23352102
>"people fell for immature jokes and edgy commentary when they were teenagers" isn't a real insult either,
'You were a dumbass teenager' is definitely an insult
>Probably because of your own insecurities
Thank you, Mr Freud, tell me more about the workings of my mind

>>23352095
>That's how he started the war
>Not reading the rest of your post
I'm not entirely convinced you can read it, actually read it and understand it, if this is the best you can come up with

>>23352108
You're clearly a troll. Those are the inner workings of your mind.
Not very interesting.

>>23352109
So you want me to convince you I have the ability to read your stupid blithering?

>>23352194
Go on Anon, fire up that little brain cell, I believe in you! Ganbare!

>>23352205
Hm.
Let's see.
Let me imagine what the rest of your poost is like.
...
Nope.
Don't want to read it.
Nice try though

>>23352211
>Let me imagine what the rest of your poost is like
You fucking knuckledragger lmao. Embarrassing attempt to save face

>>23352215
>you're totally an idiot because you didn't read my inane ramblings about the Star Wars prequels!

>>23352224
>because you didn't read my
Nah, you probably did read it. You just couldn't come up with a decent enough response, so now you're just falling back on dumb ad hom
>my inane ramblings about the Star Wars prequels!
My man, you are in a thread about Star Wars, what other topic were you expecting people to be posting about?

>>23352233
I'll give you another chance to impress me and entice me into reading whatever bullshit you're on about.
I'll let you know whether or not I read it.

>>23352241
>I'll give you another chance to impress me
Wow, you're so cool and aloof(!)
>into reading whatever bullshit you're on about
It's the exact same bullshit you've been on about. The one you have similarly been writing long posts about ITT for the last 4 hours. Which is why the feigned disinterest just comes off as a very insincere attempt to disengage while saving face.

>>23352251
I actually decided to get something to eat.
You're also a fucking retard.

>>23352259
Doesn't actually have anything to do with what I just said, but okay
>You're also a fucking retard.
You're coping.

>>23352261
It's hard to cope with your idiocy, I'll admit.
Hence I am quickly losing interest in this conversation.

>>23352262
And yet you keep coming back for the last word
Really showing me how little you care ;)
>hard to cope with your idiocy
You're the one who had to resort to seething insults because you couldn't come up with a decent response lmao

>>23347811 (OP)
Nah, GCucks was painful to watch
So much shit was handwaved, so much was offscreened because they just couldn't find a way to explain it, it relied so much on memberberries because they knew it couldn't stand on its own otherwise
At least I got a few yuks out of it, especially at how the third act turned out

>>23352268
At some point you started insulting me and this makes you far less interesting than shutting off my computer and playing some videogames.
I'll summarize what I think your arguments are, based on what I've read:
>Your initial assertion was that the conflict with the Trade Federation was not compelling
If you really don't find it compelling I can't argue with that, you're allowed to have that opinion. I think you're dumb and a little insufferable for choosing this as your hill to die on, but you're allowed to make the choice to be that way.
At any rate I responded by asserting my view that what makes the conflict compelling is not that it's a good vs. evil story about the good Naboo people winning over the evil Trade Federation: it's a compelling tragedy about good people being duped by Palpatine, who was creating and manipulating conflicts for his selfish ends.
>You responded, I think, by doubling down on the idea that the Trade Federation weren't compelling villains and that they should have been
I posted a few times that I think you're mad that the story isn't as simple as you want it to be.
You've kept saying "No, it's actually really simple" and have essentially been arguing "well it's a simple story about how the Trade Federation are the bad guys and the Naboo are the good guys, but it's not very compelling" and I've responded a few times reminding you that this is a story about Palpatine creating and manipulating conflicts in order to gain power.
With every post you've made you've proven that you really are just mad it's not a simpler story

>>23347972
Both are nearing 50 and established a standard that has been dead since '85.

>>23352270
Xeno a shit.

>>23347811 (OP)
>Wahmen were a mistake

>>23352018
Zeta is a good series.

>>23352293
>I think you're dumb and a little insufferable for choosing this as your hill to die on,
This has been a conversation. An argument. If I'm being unreasonable by continuing it, so are you.
>At any rate I responded by asserting my view that what makes the conflict compelling is not that it's a good vs. evil story about the good Naboo people winning over the evil Trade Federation: it's a compelling tragedy about good people being duped by Palpatine
Right, and I said that the TF are not good people, are not interesting people, and the root of their conflict (because, remember, I began specifically by saying the aspect of the, "trade disputes and senatorial politics," were not compelling, without making any reference to all the other aspects of the plot you then brought up) was undercooked. I actually said that Palpatine himself was the interesting part, and that you could replace the TF with almost anything else, and that would not be diminished.
>You've kept saying "No, it's actually really simple" and have essentially been arguing "well it's a simple story about how the Trade Federation are the bad guys and the Naboo are the good guys, but it's not very compelling" and I've responded a few times reminding you that this is a story about Palpatine
The Trade Federation are lame baddies. The story is about Palpatine manipulating said lame baddies to his own ends. These two things exist together, without contradiction. I have described this, at length, multiple times, yet every time you come back and insist that it is some obscure take that I haven't quite reached yet
>At some point you started insulting me
Yeah, after you insulted me. (You) were the first to whip out the, "actually, you're just mad," nonsense. (You) were the one to call my posts, "blithering," "inane," "bullshit" etc. Don't you fucking tone police me when you're the first one to fall back on cheap insults, while I stuck to the fucking arguments, you conceited, illiterate fucking cunt.

>>23352427
>This has been a conversation. An argument. If I'm being unreasonable by continuing it, so are you.
I just think you're really fucking dumb for zeroing in on the Trade Federation vs. Naboo being an "uncompelling conflict" when that's not the central conflict of the movie.

>>23352432
>for zeroing in on the Trade Federation vs. Naboo being an "uncompelling conflict" when that's not the central conflict
The initial point, which you jumped in to contest, was that the trade disputes and senatorial politics were not compelling. That was the sole thing said. And your response was, "well I found them compelling, you were just too dumb to understand why they're bad". So clearly, you thought it was a point worth fucking talking about, dumbass

>>23352436
It's honestly really entertaining to watch you miss the point so much.

>>23347811 (OP)
Nostalgiabait is never a bad thing.

>>23347852
Early Gqux was soured by the trashfire last arc and ending

So many tears. Blessed thread and based OP.

>>23347811 (OP)
yeah no, no one likes qux try again

>>23354814
I liked it.

>>23354820
I mean so did I but I can admit it was heavily flawed and they wasted significant amounts of the runtime

>>23354826
I don't care.

>>23354871
I dont care that youre so sensitive either

>>23352332
True. I've been noticing the same sort of arguments coming from Xenofags and Gquuuuuuxfags as well

>>23354826
You would think this late in the game they would have the formula down but I can’t think of a single gundam show that didn’t waste run time on pointless shit that actively detracts from the potential of the show. It’s just that every gundam series does it to varying amounts and some are way worse than others. I haven’t seen g cucks because it looks gross but with 12 episodes you need to lock in and not add retarded shit to the story

>>23355078
honestly it makes them feel like they where made by comity or handed down mandates from bandai of shit they must include

>>23355078
it needed one main character and integrate the clan battle stuff into the plot better. fuze nyan and machu, have them in contact with challia and Xavier much earlier, have the clan battle people just be defectors and insurgents they face during a more zeon heavy plot. have challia be the connection to newtypes for the protagonist rather than shuji existing and it would have freed up a significant amount of episodes. also cut the flashback to just half an episode

>>23347972
For the audience, the joke is he's saying the opposite of what's true.

>>23347811 (OP)
This shit was somehow worse than Sneed Destiny. It's purely incompetent writing like something you'd see on AO3.

>>23347811 (OP)
No that was Unicorn/NT

>>23347972
Older Star Wars was willing tot take risks. Current one isn't.