>FM3R uses genAI to upscale assets
How can a bunch of impoverished Poles afford to use generative AI to fuck up assets so badly!?

In all seriousness though, FM3R feels the snappiest to play, which it should because it's FM3, but it's sad and hilarious how botched the entire trilogy is. Here's hoping the devs can be shamed into patching real assets into the game, it's not the first time a game has had to un-AI itself.

>Polish devs give us Terminator Resistance and RoboCop Rogue City
>Pole devs also give us the Front Mission Remake trilogy
The Polacks giveth and the Polacks taketh away.

>>23349794 (OP)
>FM1R
>Wanzers look completely stiff and soulless
>FM2R
>Unplayable bugfest
Can't believe people are actually buying FM3R

>>23350068
3R is actually shaping up to be the best of the bunch if the only problem is art assets that theoretically can be replaced with patches.
But it also illustrates the baffling thing about the entire project, how each game is so insistent on trying to preserve the jank of the original experiences when we would all probably be OK with just massively overhauling the gameplay loop of each game to build off of what was last seen in 5, or in other words being actual remakes of each game.

Still, I can't say I outright hate Front Mission: Slavjank Edition, but at the same time I don't really think it's right that Front Mission has now become an honorary slavjank franchise.

>>23350349
FM was always a kinda jank franchise, not a single game doesn't have something weird going on with it.

>>23350349
The Wanzers look like ass, and the animations are worse than the original's from 26 years ago. The upscales are the least of it's problems.
It's outsourced garbage. And a classic monkey's paw combined with a catch 22.
The only recent Front Mission thing worth supporting was the model kits.
Square Enix should just stick to merch and abandon video game publishing 100% at this point. Soulless cash grabs is all they have.
>>23350517
1,3, 4, and 5 are polished TRPGs for their respective times. Front Mission 5 is incredible for a PS2 game. 2 suffers from early 3d abuse, but is otherwise fine. All of them had top tier artists working on them.

Also, remember this? Why spend all that money on high end procedural IK and then never use it on an actual Front Mission?
https://www.siliconera.com/front-mission-wanzers-used-at-square-enix-gdc-2021-presentation/
https://www.famitsu.com/news/202107/20227789.html
https://gdcvault.com/play/1027234/Animation-Summit-From-Design-Full
We were robbed.

SE does not even promote these games on their social media, so that`s an indicative of the overall importance of the franchise. I guess they just wanted to make a quick buck and that`s it.

>>23351372
Well of course, if it isn't a liveservice game the shareholders running Squeenix don't care.
They're legit some of the most tone deaf out of touch suits in the industry and the fact that FF14 does gangbusters is the only thing keeping them from suffering the hubris of their actions.

>>23351324
FM5 kind of sucks. Sure it looks good and has a lot of content but eventually the systems start to collapse and don't work as intended and the plot is the worst in the series.

>>23351397
Them getting butthurt about FF16 not selling well when it was locked to the Nogamestation 5 is still really fucking funny to me.

Is it possible for old companies to just do this instead? Instead of taking game A and remaking it from scratch….turning it into game A2

Can they just update game A with new content turning it into game A version 1.1? then make it a download title they port to modern consoles? To my knowledge no modern company has done this.

>>23352118

That kind of stuff is rather common, although it depends on the company, and generally you see it more in collections, like the Megaman X collections that have ports of old games and a new boss rush mode.

SE themselves have that Final Fantasy Tactics game coming out that allow you to choose the original game or the new "enhanced" version.

>>23352145
what I’m asking for is something like a directors cut where they add an extra chapter to a game or another mission. Or some kind of content that is new like in a game like front mission maybe add a few new sets to the shop to buy and make your robots with. They can even have the same stats as other parts and just be brand new models for cosmetic customization. If you can think of more games that do this I would like to know. I think this is a superior option compared to shit like the starwars battlefront classic collection which was just an AI upscale cash grab for like 25 or 30 dollars. When in reality what people would have gone crazy for is if they added a few new maps to the game to play on instead of just ai upscaling the game. Maybe it isn’t a great example. Idk

>>23352118
If I had to be generous, it comes down to how to make the case for the project to the suits in charge of approving these things in the first place. With Front Mission I could totally believe if it stemmed from Forever Entertainment arguing that if they were allowed to remake 1st, then the assets and codebase could be extended to remake 2 and 3 with quick turnaround and reduced cost, which would be easier to do than something like packaging the PSX games into emulators and doing the hackery required to get them to modern standards like if this were an M2 restoration project.

Software restoration is kinda a fustercluck, and it's a small miracle companies like M2 and Nightdive make their living on doing restoration projects that preserve and even enhance the original experiences (by the way, SS2 remaster just dropped). I really can't hate Forever for their approach, but I can be a bit upset SE didn't back them up and maybe connect them with some of the OG talent to act as guidance or something.

I've been trying to play this series since the turn of the century starting with poorly translated romhacks emulated on zsnes and it's just always sucked. What's the appeal?

>>23352172
It just is something that I would expect to happen more often even if it’s still rare. So many companies port their old games as downloadable titles anyway, doing the same thing porting their old games to every console generation and even phones. Surely there is a handful of companies with the assets to try and make some new content for an old game before they rerelease it for the 20th time. and in the grand scheme of things I would imagine that could be cheaper in certain cases than paying for a studio to remake an entire game. but maybe it costs more to remake the game but it sells more so the net profit is higher. I don’t know. I just know that the newer versions of games are almost never as good to play as the older ones. And this is such a common damn problem I have been wishing that studios could just do what I suggested and make minor additions to older games even if it’s only an addition of 2 or 3% of a games content. Shit some people would be happy with 1% for some games. gives you an incentive to buy it especially if you have bought that same damn game like 5 times already in various systems.

>>23352059
They're stuck in the PS2 era where releasing stuff on a Sony console was a good idea.

>>23352178
Having 4 to 6 wanzers just unload on one dude is cathartic.

>>23352178
There's something really funny about watching two Wanzers try to shoot each other and nearly missing 90% of the time, at least in 1st.

>>23349794 (OP)
The recent preview they put out look sad. It lacks any of the charm of OG FM3, that they might has well have not have wasted any time or money changing the graphics and animations.

>>23352053
Couldn't get into FM5. Played FM3 than FM4 and than FM5. Which lead to the weapons in FM5 feeling like water guns compared to the previous games. The game also looked a little stilted compared to FM4.

>>23352118
Ninja Warriors Once Again and Wild Guns Reloaded from Tengo Project are probably the closest thing to that.
Both of those play exactly like the old game they're based on, but with some upgraded sprites, new playable characters, and widescreen.

>>23352330
I got filtered in the second to last mission in fm4 I feel like there are mechanics or something to that game I never learned about because I struggled a retarded amount with that game. I remember liking the map which is all shipping containers. I’ve been thinking of doing something like that for a /m/ diorama

>>23350047
As it turns out, not all Polacks are created equally.

>>23355094
As long as you set up and use Links properly it's not that hard.

>>23356443
I honestly didn’t like the link system and felt like it ruined the game. what attracted me to front mission was it seemed like it was some kind of semi realistic tactical game where you use line of sight, elevation, cover, etc to outmaneuver the enemies. No gimmick shit. The link system imo changes things in a cartoonish way where even when I won using it it didn’t feel good. it just got ridiculous how many attacks chained into other attacks I really think they needed to tone that down

>>23356447
>semi realistic tactical game where you use line of sight, elevation, cover, etc to outmaneuver the enemies

Any notion of this being true should have been put to rest as soon as you played a few missions of the first game. It's pretty much several missions back to back of people panick-spraying at each other until someone discovers the secret to aiming, followed by a marathon of wanzer dick shots and arm amputations as a mad Aussie goes on a search for his girlfriend's brain.

>>23349794 (OP)
All I hope is that they are speedrunning the release of remakes so audiences are up to date by the time a new game is developed.

>>23356447
Wanzer gangbangs are way more realistic than fucking anything in FM1, holy shit dude.

>>23355094
Isn't that the mission with mg duel wielding blond german russian spy? He was a pain since he deals a lot of dmg and FM4 seems to do 1 ACC check instead of what felt like 1 for each shot like in FM3. Which leads to you missing point blank ammo dumps. I might have broken his legs so he didn't dodge so much.

Is there a dash in FM4 it's in the intro but my wanzers never did it in game.

>>23356700
Like, goddamn man, this is still a Japanese franchise and shit gets wacky fast, just because you start with grunty shitboxes doesn't mean it's realistic, take FM3 for example, the game is a circus where usually one of three things happen in a fight, either you trigger zero skills and you feel bad, you trigger a billion tier 1 skills in a row and absolutely decimate whichever poor bastard you got into a fight with or you just yeet a dude out of his machine and then proceed to shoot him so you can take his ride, oh and said dude on foot can also randomly kick you out of your machine and then proceed to take it if you still don't feel like battles in 3 can get random enough.

>>23356592
I was saying that in terms of elevation bonuses, partial cover bonuses, weather effecting aim, etc. that was stuff that is objectively realistic and isn’t in a lot of games. But the link system imo is retarded because the game relies so heavily on it that it almost trivializes the other aspects of the game. If you have 4 wanzers attacking one helpless enemy, and they are link attack spamming, they should get punished by the enemies allies near you attacking you because you are turning your back to them. Can’t you get like 8 linked attacks or something in a row? It’s been so long I don’t even remember but it’s like half a minute of animation.

>>23356725
I can’t remember it was this mission where you start on a long street, and you are fighting a bunch of wanzers, but as you progress down the street past the first group of enemies there are one or two really large robots hitting you with really powerful attacks. it’s been years since I played it but I never beat it. Yeah I’m pretty sure it had that dude in it but I don’t remember.

>>23356726
I’m just saying that I think the link system was a bad idea. The game is already inherently complicated compared to the average video game. In terms of the customization you need to do and replaying missions over and over to figure out how to win. To add a gimmick like the link system into the game just makes the battles even more confusing as far as I’m concerned. And if I win or lose in a strategy game I want it to be because my guys were not placed correctly, the gear I used wasn’t logical, not because of something like the link system which is just (oh yeah we know we are spamming hordes of enemies at you so if you don’t abuse this you can’t win) it just ruined the appeal of the game to me.

Just started FM2 remake. The AP is really constricting as hell. Is the meta gonna be SMGs and long range bombardment? Feels like melee units are suicidal in this game. Also, the network system thing is entirely too many clicks to get the info I want.

Edit: Tanks hit like trucks wtf.

>>23352159
Ironic and depressing that you ask that. You describe the PSP remaster of Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions. It had additional party members, new classes, all-new FMV cutscenes, a fixed (and improved, depending who you ask) script, and I believe some minor balance fixes.

And this new "remaster" includes NONE of it. Literally un-making games. It's incredible how companies can get away with this so often these days, where even if an outsourced cashgrab re-release DOESN'T completely fuck up the game, it still pales in comparison to the SAME game's previous remasters.

>>23357059
As far as it were explained with FFT to me: it was due to PSP game additions not having the original director involved, and the new remaster is meant to be revisiting his original vision with updates and additions to the script from the original director.
Then again I shouldn't trust random youtube comments on their face.

>>23356872
You're just plain stupid. That's the issue.

>>23357121
I just checked WotL's credits; that seems to be correct. That said, I truly believe it's a cop-out excuse on Square's part to put less effort and money in and deliver a sub-par product. They're either lazy and passionless, or planning to double-dip and sell the WotL content as DLC, and I'm not sure which is worse. I don't think there's a soul alive who honestly thinks the game's better in its PS1 form.

>>23357183
Probably both, especially since they couldn't AI upscale the PSP cutscenes.

>>23357183
Well then you're wrong. I don't think any of the additions in the PSP version are worthwhile and the game is better off without them.

>>23357165
Watching 4 wanzers take turns shooting one guy for almost a complete minute while that guys team mates are standing there not doing anything in response looks stupid.

>>23357183
Actually, as I recall from my own time with WotL they cut out bits like units apparently chanting actual dialog when casting spells in the move to PSP.
Also, this approach is consistent with the stance taken in the Pixel Remasters, where erring on the side of "preserve as much of what was original as opposed to embrace all rerelease content" was the guiding principal (though in those games' cases I'd argue the bonus gallery acts as a compensatory bit of added value since it's like having a mini art book per game, but still it means stuff like getting the version of FF3 where the cast are all generic onion knight orphans rather than the slightly individualized characters of the DS remake, for example).

Honestly when playing FFT you've got bigger issues to worry about than whether you can recruit the clown suit protagonist from Tactics Advance. Like, yknow, surviving Wiegraf's Wild Ride.

>>23349794 (OP)
i wish someone revive this series
Fm1-5game and manga was really good

>>23357643
Look, buddy, you really don't have a leg to stand on after admitting to resetting most missions multiple times. I could explain to you how the Link system is good but it's clear it'd fly over your head.

>>23356949
Just stick to a single type of weapon for each character (Melee, Short or Long), be aware of the ev% for each tile and you'll be golden.
I don't know how much things have changed in the remake but Thomas and Cordy were MVPs on most battles because of melee. Prioritize the weight-to-output ratio by giving them knuckles instead of clubs or even sending them unarmed. Don't load them with backpacks but if you do, give them ammo refills for your Long users and then send them to finish off characters once they have spent that weight and can use tiles with high evasion better.
Mobile Weapons are bullshit, though. They are spammed in the late game and you have to use all twelve units on one at a time to spread damage taken and shut them down.

>>23358498
Most people who played the game if you read their reviews or watch them say that basically was their experience for half the missions or so.

>>23349794 (OP)
What's wrong with using gen AI on low-resolution assets from 20 years ago? You're not going to notice the difference.

>>23359554
You do
Ai upscaled image and texture look like clay
And they could just hand made these assets without any problem but they didn't

>>23359554
And genAi is not the only problem these demake have
https://youtu.be/o09OjHVDwro?feature=shared

>>23359587
Pretty fucked up how much worse this has been than if they just translated them and threw them on steam.

>>23352773
They also remade Pocky and Rocky the same way. These were some good rereleases. Their remake of Shadow of The Ninja is worth a look too. I'm hoping someday they get a chance, however small, to remake the old Natsume Power Rangers game and Gundam Wing: Endless Duel, those in widescreen with updated sprite work would be great.

Tengo Project and other companies just really show how much Forever Entertainment is just a cash grab studio, like if you think these FM remakes are bad you need to see how terrible their House Of The Dead remakes are. Holy shit it's just horrible.

>>23352313
FM1 is pretty much just missile launcher spam.

>>23359587
>pinned comment from uploader has them hyped for the newest trailer anyway

>>23356949
Tanks mobbing you is hell.

it looks like shit either way

>>23359421
That just means a bunch of people are barely sapient amoebas who don't get "park your melee wanzer next to the thing you plan on blowing up this turn, shoot at it, if one of your dudes looks a bit shredded have a mechanic top him off, repeat until everything is dead" gameplan, fucking FM 4 and 5 are games for babies that only require you to position your dudes properly and know which things to kill first.

>>23357643
Mate, FM 5 has plenty of stages where attacking the wrong dude from the wrong direction can get your dudes shredded, because unlike 4 they start adding links to enemies pretty quickly once you beat the first boss.

>>23361214
That doesn't happen at all.

>>23359554
In this case, because they're too low res to begin with. PS1 textures were designed to be displayed sharp and unfiltered, with low enough pixel counts that the end result has more artistically in common with pixel art than texturing in the modern sense. So instead of crisp pixels giving you an artist's attempt to convey a surface or detail, you get a blobby machine hallucination.
It's different when you use neural network tools for more modern titles. I believe the Mass Effect remasters did this, using upscalers to increase resolution of background elements so that the human art pass and higher quality source assets were focused on the areas they'd be most useful. Sharpening lines or inferring the intended shape of the curve of a decal a little more closely is different from handing it a PS1 texture and asking it to even recognise that it's looking at a warning stripe painted on concrete. Regardless of how you feel about the tools from any other angle, you're just not going to get good outcomes here.

It also looks like complete shit for stuff like character portraits. If Square isn't even providing them source assets for those, then I'm surprised they could even be fucked signing the legal paperwork to make the remasters happen.

>>23362547
Bold of you to assume they even have source materials, I don't think a single PS1 era Squaresoft joint had that luxury, let alone any game of the time really; no one was planning that far ahead in the industry to preserve production materials on the off chance of a future rerelease.

>>23363047
That's true for a lot of things but character art usually survives, and even if not in the form of raw assets then surely stuff like higher quality scans. It's possible, but I'd find it very hard to believe that the in-game portraits off the PS1 disc are the highest quality versions of that art in existence.

>>23359837
the expansion in the DS version got harder AI that makes more brutal. a true challenge, if you ask me...

>>23360357
just like IRL

>there is no modern 3D Front Mission
>FMO and Evolved are distant past
>this franchise got "revived" its corpse with crappy remakes
and no, that thing mixed with Metal Gear Solid (forgot the name) no such thing exists

>>23363436
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3446920/Mecharashi/

>>23363547
i don't support chinese thieves

>>23363718
They were originally contracted to develop FM 2089: Borderscape until Square-Enix backed out on the project and cancelled the game, so Blackjack had to rename and change all the assets to salvage the game. Then S-E approved those god-awful FM remakes.

>>23363547
>>23363727
that , with Muv-Luv Tactics, i hope something gud this winter 4 me...