Why didn't COMPASS just slap a Destiny Silhouette on the Impulse instead of sticking him in the Justice then?

>>23356389 (OP)

My assumption was to make it look like Athrun is currently with COMPASS and not doing spy shit in the background.

>>23356389 (OP)
because Fukuda forgot it exists

Who was the bigger MVP, Athrun saving everyone from the nuke and gearing up everyone, or Shinn's autism obliterating their aces and doomsday weapon.

>>23356467
Unironically this might be the answer. Fukuda is entirely oblivious to the existence of anything and everything outside the show itself. Hell, sometimes not even that since he's on record saying and seething at how he didn't know that the Red Frame has a katana (despite having an OVA, several cameo appearances in Build, it's own manga that was remastered too, several toys and being a staple in every SEED related vidya)

>>23356389 (OP)
>>23356467
>Why didn't COMPASS just slap a Destiny Silhouette on the Impulse

This was mentioned in multiple Interviews a few times. Japanese fans kept asking about Destiny Impulse. Fukuda and the staff considered it.


But Fukuda decided against making the Destiny Impulse for the movie for several reasons:


1. Fukuda felt it would take away from the attention of bringing back Destiny Gundam...which he wanted to be one of the main focuses.

2. Fukuda felt that it was impossible for Destiny Impulse to be battery powered. He said the power consumption would be simply too high and not realistic. Especially since Destiny Gundam needs a nuclear reactor.

3. Fukuda felt that an incremental upgrade (enhanced battery + upgraded Silhouette packs) was a better for Impulse Gundam.

4. Fukuda said that Impulse's greatest strength was versatility, and being able to rapidly switch packs in the middle of combat. So the focus was placed on that idea for the movie. Hence that's why Impulse Gubdam rapidly changed through all packs in the film while fighting different enemies.

5. He said that the Destiny pack is a combination of all Impulse packs. Fukuda said he felt the pack would be too heavy for the battery powered Impulse Gundam. It would carry too much weight and use too much power. Fukuda compared it to the Perfect Strike Gundam situation in the remaster. Mwu La Flaga stopped using Perfect Strike after the Battle of Orb because it was too heavy.

>>23356389 (OP)
Cause the Destiny Sillouette is too fuckin power hungry. It gets gassed in like 3 minutes usually, the impulse just cant maintain it for that long. If Luna'd used it in the movie then Shinn would have had to make out with he---i mean give her juice like 5 or 6 times mid battle.

>>23356687
Maybe I'm just misremembering but is there a reason why the silhouette packs don't recharge the Impulse in FREEDOM? I thought they did in the main series

>>23356719
Structural limitations from making all the Silhouette packs being able to fly independently on Earth and in space.

So the recharging system was moved to the forehead and Deuterion beam wireless energy transmission was created.

>>23356389 (OP)
Real question is, why was Orb working on the Impulse and Destiny if they're ZAFT creations?

>>23356877
Because Shinn and Luna aren't part of ZAFT anymore?

>>23356662
All that sounds like excuses because he forgot about it or doesn't want to admit he doesn't like the best thing to come out of that shotshow of a series.

>>23356877
Zaft lost the final battle in Seed Destiny. So the Destiny and Impulse were recovered by Athrun and Orb first before Zaft could find them. Essential winner take all.

Also since Durandal died, Shinn and Lunamaria lost their biggest backer. They had no political allies. Most of the military hated the Minerva crew because Durandal gave them special treatment and special mobile suits. So the surviving military officials were more than happy to toss away Shinn and Luna.

The databooks say that the Impulse Gundam project was canceled due to immense cost and budget concerns. Shinn wasn't the only one using Impulse Gundam. Multiple Impulse Gundams were used across many battlezones, and Zaft said I the logistics and budget necessary to keep them running was too much. Especially with all the various Impulse spare parts.

What Orb recovered was basically leftover scrap in the eyes of Zaft officials.

I still think Shinn should've fought Shura instead

>>23356897
the idea that there's an entire subset of ZAFT who legitimately thinks that the Minerva crew's accomplishments are just fake news that never happened is one of the best things to come out of the movie

>>23356897
>>23356944
I wouldn't be surprised if they also blame Shinn for Durandal's defeat or seem him as a traitor for joining the people that defeated him.

>>23356926
How would Shura have reacted to naked ghost monster Stella?

>>23356926
Shinn should have tried to fight Orphee, almost winning due to how autistic he is, and then Orphee bombards Shinn with the armada of ships he has.

>>23356719
The Impulse was always recharged from the Deutrion emitter and not the packs

>>23356944
Durandal edited the Minerva out of Berlin footage. Meer was fake. Why wouldn’t the Minerva be a giant psyop?

>>23356960
Without those Drone meteors and Shura backing him up, Orphee is surprisingly weak. His suit is just 2 beam sabers, a beam rifle and a chest cannon.

Destiny laughs at it and makes 200 clones.

>>23356893
Lol cope harder

>>23357109
Did you forget the Dragoons? It's essentially monoeye Strike Freedom, and we all know Shinn's track record against the Strike Freedom.

>>23356897
>Most of the military hated the Minerva crew
I'm so glad Shinn was redeemed in Freedom and eventually Freedom.

>>23356926
I thought that was where they were going with their swordfight

Is Shinn going to do anything in the Freedom prequel film?

>>23357137
Didn't Kira shoot down like half of Orphee's funnels before upgrading to Mighty Strike Freedom? Seems like something Shinn could do since he fought a 4 v 1.

I question how good of a pilot Orphee actually is since Ingrid was controlling all the remote weapons. I think Shura is actually better than Orphee in terms of piloting skill.

>>23357387
>I think Shura is actually better than Orphee in terms of piloting skill.
I'd say so. Orphee fights on the front line as a morale/pride thing, and while he's competent as a pilot he'll use tech and a copilot to make up for not being the best pilot, similar to a commander like Lelouch.

.

Compass didn't use Impulse at all until the final battle even though it wasn't nuclear.

>>23359255
Impulse is a bit dated by the time of Gundam Seed Freedom. Even with the Type 2 upgrade, Impulse was getting physically pushed back by the Gyan Storm. Which indicates that Gyan had more power and mroe thrust.

>>23359255
Wasn't there a point when Impulse gets onto a METEOR and uses as-is? I don't think they particularly gave a shit about the performance logic

>>23359340
They upgraded the Meteors with their own reactors so pretty much anything could use them.

>>23359340
The databooks say that the Original meteors had power issues. The Justice and Freedom's nuclear reactor was only barely enough to power Meteor. Kira and Athrun couldn't repeatedly spam beams or overload the Meteors too much. Otherwise the nuclear reactors of both suits would overheat and shut down. Later on, both Meteors were uograded with internal nuclear reactors to help solve the power issues.

>>23359370
Wasn't this also how they were able to straight up Requiem's relay station up in GSD or am I misremembering?

>>23356662
>2. Fukuda felt that it was impossible for Destiny Impulse to be battery powered. He said the power consumption would be simply too high and not realistic. Especially since Destiny Gundam needs a nuclear reactor.
When are you people going to learn to NEVER believe anything Fukuda says? He doesn't understand the shit he's writing and just does whatever seems "the coolest". There's no consistency or internal logic, and "databooks" are only there to patch up his shit post-fact, like the fact that he entirely forgot why or how the mecha were battery-powered after the war.
For fuck's sake, he didn't even care about what Sting's block word was until he was asked about it on Twitter a decade after the show was over. Or how Tusk and Momoka survived a seemingly fatal drop (also explained on Twitter!).

>>23356877
Looting

>>23359469
Are you disagreeing with the idea that Destiny Impulse uses too much power?

>>23356877
>>23356897
>>23356889
>why was Orb working on the Impulse and Destiny if they're ZAFT creations?
Short answer is COMPASS. Orb and ZAFT are working hand in glove in weapons development: Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were a joint project.

>>23359469
>For fuck's sake, he didn't even care about what some jobber's block word was
Was I supposed to enter some tardrage upon reading this?

Did some new SEED hater crawl out of the reddit muck or something?

>>23359501
Zaft had nothing do do with Orb confiscating Impulse and Destiny. Those units were taken as war trophies by the 3 ships alliance.

>>23359387
English please.

>>23359545
Straight up *cut apart* Requiem's relay station
Sorry anon

>>23356389 (OP)
1: Compass doesn't have Destiny or Impulse. Orb does.
2: Given that Orb had Destiny, why would they give Impulse some failed equipment pack instead of giving him the Destiny?
3: Immortal Justice is superior to Destiny in terms of most specs, but Destiny was straight up designed to suit Shinn and he has more experience with it, while he's still getting used to Immortal Justice.

>>23359542
>Orb confiscating Impulse and Destiny.
>Those units were taken as war trophies by the 3 ships alliance.
Stop making shit up. All four units (SF, IJ, Destiny and Impulse) were passed to Orb's Morgenröte for overhauls.

>>23359571
>Compass doesn't have Destiny or Impulse. Orb does.
Same thing in practice.

>instead of giving him the Destiny
I assume you mean Shinn. And no, it was Lunamaría unit at that stage. What reason would Shinn have to use that thing?

>>23359609
>I assume you mean Shinn.
That's what OP was asking. 'Why wasn't Shinn using the Destiny Impulse?'

>>23359618
Why would he use Impulse with a Destiny pack if the actual, nuclear powered Destiny was right there?

>>23359571
>Immortal Justice is superior to Destiny in terms of most specs

Yeah no matter how many times that comes up I just cannot believe that. Immortal Justice has literally nothing going for it, given it existed solely to get wrecked with minimal weapons vs Destiny's various weapons and WoL. Even in the movie it's clearly outsped and overpowered by the Rudra where as Destiny is not.

>>23359622
Bro, I'm not OP. He's the one asking that. As for why he's asking that, it's because he's retarded.

>>23359622
It would make more sense to give Destiny Impulse to Lunamaria.

>>23359640
It would make more sense to give Destiny Impulse R to Lunamaria.

>>23359625
There is honestly no reason why an enhanced Destiny, Impulse and etc shouldnt be capable of keeping up with the latest generation of mobile suits. Especially when the Astray variants upgraded by backwater hicks were shown capable holding their own against the latest generation of mobile suits and even winning against them.

>>23359625
Immortal Justice isn't lacking in weapons, the shield in particular is strong enough to go right through a Destroy's positron reflector.

>>23359609
>Stop making shit up. All four units (SF, IJ, Destiny and Impulse) were passed to Orb's Morgenröte for overhauls.
Anon wtf are you talking about. We see at the end of Seed Destiny that Zaft lost. The three ships alliance were floating above the moon and the wreckage of Destiny and Impulse. Shinn and Luna aria were not rescued by Zaft. Athrun took them.

>>23359640
>It would make more sense to give Destiny Impulse to Lunamaria.
Fukuda said in an interview that the idea was discussed while planning for the movie, but felt that Destiny Impulse was too heavy (has 2 swords and beams cannons + wings), and used too much energy for a battery powered suit to handle.

>>23359710

Impulse Gundam is a last generation suit. Even with some upgrades, it's core design is still one generation behind the latest designs. Impulse can kill older Windams easily.

But it would struggle against the latest Seed Gelgoogs and Seed Gyans. Especially since Gelgoogs have beam shields. And Gyan's heat weapons can break/melt Phase shift armor.

Remember that Lunamaria needed 2 full packs of Impulse Silhouettes and a full battery recharge just to beat Agnes in Gyan. And even then, Luna was struggling for a while and barely won because of psychological warfare, and insulting Agnes about her failed love life and making her hot headed.

>>23359730
>>23359625
>Immortal Justice has literally nothing going for it, given it existed solely to get wrecked with minimal weapons vs Destiny's various weapons and WoL. Even in the movie it's clearly outsped and overpowered by the Rudra where as Destiny is not.

Didn't you watch the movie? Athrun makes fun of Shinn. He says hes very disappointed in Shinn for trashing Immortal Justice, and that Shinn was still 10 years too early to be able to properly pilot Immortal Justice.

>>23359839
To be fair, Shinn lasted the longest in Immortal Justice. Kira in Rising Freedom was shot down first. Mu, the Dom trio pilots were also defeated first. Shinn was the last to fall.

>>23359828
>>23359710
>>23359695
>>23359640
>>23356662

Did none of you fools even read the databooks about Destiny Impulse?

It's said that during testing the Impulse Gundam frame couldn't handle the stress of using the Destiny pack.

The WoL was too much and the frame cracked.

>>23359851
Don't worry, Fukada can just counter it.

Why are anti-SEED fags always hilariously retarded nowadays? It’s like everybody intelligent who disliked SEED just vanished over the years.

I don't think you guys give Fukuda enough credit. Did anyone else notice Shinn got defeated the same way Kira got defeated? Stabbed in the stomach with an anti-ship sword while distracted and defending the Archangel. It's like poetry.

>>23359861
That cant be it. Shinn just wasnt use to the Justice like he claimed.

>>23359861
The parallels were 100% intentional. Poor Shinn.

>>23359861
I don't understand this scene. How is Justice getting cut but the shield is fine?

>>23359571
>Immortal Justice is superior to Destiny in terms of most specs, but Destiny was straight up designed to suit Shinn and he has more experience with it, while he's still getting used to Immortal Justice.

I don't think this is quite right. Immortal Justice has some new features that the Original Destiny Gundam didn't have. But Its not 100% more powerful.

Its like the difference between a 2005 Lamborghini VS a 2025 Budget car. The budget car will have newer features like new electronics and infotainment center.

>>23359861
Kira wasn’t “defeated” though

>>23359911
Huh? Yes he was. It's the same circumstances. Kira was distracted. Shinn was distracted. Both got defeated.

>>23356655
I have heard about this a lot but I haven't found any source around the katana thing. I only found the "he hasn't read and doesn't really care about Astray and tries to not interfere with it" tweets. Do you have the source?

>>23356655
>>23360000
You didn't find the posts where Fukuda said he doesn't consider Astray as "Real Gundam Seed" ? I think he said it while doing promotional interviews for the Seed Movie before it came out.

>>23360035
No I had the tweets, just not the katana one

>>23360035

Was that the same one where a fan asked him about the origins of Mighty Strike Freedom's Katana and if it was related to Red Frame Astray Katana?

Then Fukuda sounded a little annoyed and said the Katana has nothing to do with Astray and he doesn't consider Astray as true gundam seed?

If I were Fukuda I would be annoyed too. Seed Astray is so weird and keeps coming up with weird stories and ideas like hillbillies being able to upgrade the latest military weapons and beat newer gundams.

>>23360047
To be fair, the staff were saying a lot during the lead up to movie release.

>>23360047
He's retarded if he doesn't think people would assume there's a connection.

>>23360047
That's literally exactly how they retroactively incorporated the Voiture Lumiere from Stargazer into Strike Freedom. It's not weird for fans to assume the sword on Mighty was something similar to that, but with Astray.

Are Kira and Shinn's suits from the beginning of the movie supposed to be weaker than SF and Destiny?

>>23360258
No, the opposite.
>But they're battery-
That's what the novels say

>>23360258
>supposed to be weaker than SF and Destiny?

Yes they are weaker.

Sure...Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice have some nifty newer weapons that can counter beam shields - like those improved drill beam saber shields that can cut through Destroy's Gundam beam shields. But overall their combat effectiveness is still weaker than SF and IJ. The limiting factor is still the battery. That means weaker battery powered phase shift, and no Wings of Light.

>>23360283
>>23360334
They aren’t technically battery powered are they? I thought their power source wasn’t known.

>>23357137
Fights are won and lost in SEED based on protagonist status, not tech level, unless Fukuda needs an excuse for a suit upgrade.

>>23360336
Compass doesn't use Nuclear powered mobile suits.

>>23360358
How do you know? They use three that are nuclear by the end.

>>23359911
Still lost like a bitch in a Suit more powerful than Impulse and survived by chance
Official power levels in Destiny is thus Athrun > Shinn > Kira

>>23360365
>How do you know?

Fukuda was asked about it. Fans asked him if using nuclear powered suits at the end of movie violates the Treaty. Fukuda replied that no one will know if there are no witnesses left alive. Fukuda said Kira, Shinn, and Athrun killed every enemy that saw their suits during the final Moon battle. No one was spared.


>They use three that are nuclear by the end.
Those are aren't official Compass suits. And Compass was disbanded by that point anyway.

>>23360389
>Fukuda replied that no one will know if there are no witnesses left alive. Fukuda said Kira, Shinn, and Athrun killed every enemy that saw their suits during the final Moon battle. No one was spared.
I can't tell if you're joking or not

>>23360389
The Junius Treaty was just a ceasefire treaty between Alliance and PLANT, and shouldn't still apply by the point of Freedom regardless.
Sort of like how the Antarctic treaty doesn't apply by CCA so the Feds can fire nukes at Axis.

>>23360398
What do you think happened to that entire enemy fleet when Kira unleashed that lightning attack from Mighty Strike Freedom? You think it was some "nice and gentle" EMP that only disabled enemy ships? Nope. Fukuda said those ship crews are dead. All of them.

Fukuda even mentioned how standards have changed since the first season of Gundam Seed. These days, Bandai won't let him show people's bodies exploding on screen anymore. It's considered too graphic now. So he has to settle for the second best option of just saying they all died.

>>23360389
The SF, IJ, and Destiny shouldn't need NJCs anymore regardless, given they're equipped with fusion reactors now.

>>23360410
>The Junius Treaty was just a ceasefire treaty between Alliance and PLANT, and shouldn't still apply by the point of Freedom regardless.

True.

But I assumed there was at least a "gentleman's agreement" that all factions needed to de-escalate the situation. So they all stopped making nuclear powered weapons as a show of good faith. And that's also why Compass was allowed to operate freely in everyone's territory. Because they had battery powered suits and could be controlled if they went rogue.


>Sort of like how the Antarctic treaty doesn't apply by CCA so the Feds can fire nukes at Axis.

I always thought Bright just didn't care about following the rules anymore by that point. So he just fired nukes regardless of the consequences. Even if he was arrested or killed for his actions. Bright did it to save that Earth.

>>23360410
>Sort of like how the Antarctic treaty doesn't apply by CCA so the Feds can fire nukes at Axis.
It does still apply. Cameron was arrested. Bright got away with it because he was a war hero and insanely popular with the public. So he got a pass.

>>23360334
>Yes they are weaker.
The Immortal justice is stated to be more powerful that the Destiny
It's also why the Black Knights act like the Destiny is some archaic joke when they see it's being launched

Only in Seed does a mobile suit instantly become obsolete if it's a generation old. Definitely not because Seed pilots ain't that skilled.

>>23360571
A generation difference in SEED is like 3 generations difference in UC

>>23360047
>Fukuda doesn't like it when his Gary Stu character (ver. Jesus Christ) is outdone by the other Gary Stu character (ver. Junkyard hobo)

Love to see it

>>23360514
Cameron would get in trouble for handing over nukes to Londo Bell, that doesn’t mean nukes are off the table. The Antarctic treaty was between the EF and Principality, which is why in 0083, the EF is making a nuclear MS.

>>23356389 (OP)
Because you touch yourself at night.

>>23360625
Fuduka does like to self-insert himself as Kira while his wife is the self-insert of Lacus. I am honestly surprised he didn't voice Kira himself.

>>23360783
Did he self-insert as Tusk as well?

>>23360545
>The Immortal justice is stated to be more powerful that the Destiny
No it's not. They only say the Immortal Justice is more "advanced" than the Original Destiny. Which is technically true since it's newer and has the latest control system. But IJ not more powerful than Destiny.

>>23360759
>The Antarctic treaty was between the EF and Principality, which is why in 0083, the EF is making a nuclear MS.
That was a violation of the Antarctic Treaty. It's why it was such a huge scandal and why the Federation tries to bury and delete all the related information. Then claim Zeon remnants made Gp02 themselves and the Federation had nothing to do with it.

>>23361072
It was a huge scandal because the GP02 got stolen and used against them. The Antarctic Treaty stopped applying on January 1st of 0080 when the war ended.
Delaz considers it a violation of the treaty because he’s an ideologue who believes Zeon didn’t lose.

>>23361298
The Granada Treaty was signed between the Republic of Zeon and the Federation at the end of the war. It had the same clauses as the Antarctic Treaty.

Delaz was aware of this but refused to acknowledge the Republic of Zeon and thought they were cowards and traitors. So Delaz only referenced the Antarctic Treaty in his speech because that treaty was signed by the only legitimate Zeon government in his eyes.

>>23361318
Okay, fair enough.

>>23360000
>>23360035

The Fukuda comments and interviews for promoting Gundam Seed Freedom are really all over the place. Its split between...officially released interviews, social media posts, X, other production staff members commenting on what Fukuda said during meetings, unfilmed fan events for Seed Freedom, behind the scenes interviews on the Bluray disc, Japanese fans providing partial transcripts of these promotional fan events where Fukuda would answer questions from the audience (but these events were not filmed), and a few other sources.

You will never find a centralized database of everything Fukuda has ever said. Some websites I bookmarked that contained some transcripts of Fukuda interviews from fan events no longer work anymore. Error 404. So if you see a Fukuda quote, make sure to screenshot it. The website may not even survive for long.

>>23363893
Char_Tweet still has a decent of them

Does Impulse Gundam Type 2 still have the core splendor system? I'm arguing with people on another website. They say it's impossible for Impulse to have the core splendor anymore since it now has a 360 degree sphere screen, and the Impulse launches fully assembled. Is there any data about this? Any confirmation?

>>23365300

>>23365300
>They say it's impossible for Impulse to have the core splendor anymore since it now has a 360 degree sphere screen

Impulse still has it's original cockpit. Only SF IJ and Destiny were upgraded to the 360 one.

>>23365351
So why do they launch Impulse fully assembled?

>>23363893
Why even care about what he says? If it's not in guidebooks/official Gundam materials, it's not relevant.

What's the deal with Luna and Agnes relationship? One minute Luna is happy that Agnes is still alive but the next minute Luna is like "Bitch I hate you" and shoots Agnes with a gun. Are they friends or not? Someone explain this to me.

>>23365496
Because the Millenium doesn't have the special launch Impulse in parts launching catapult that the Minerva had since Impulse wasn't supposed to be one of it's Mobile Suits.

>>23365512
Do you really expect consistency from a man who ruined Shinn's character in Freedom and turned him into a joke moe-moe retard?

I wished that Destiny II wasn't just a complete recolor. Even a minor modification like SF to SFII would be better.

>>23365523
Shinn being happier and willing to follow Kira isn't that inconsistent with how he's portrayed in Destiny, but it's very clear Fukuda treats him as a sideshow to Kira/Athrun. I mean:
>SF gets a gold inner frame
>IJ gets a silver inner frame
>Upgraded Destiny gets a bronze inner frame (although to be fair it looks more like red in action)

>>23365512
>anon somehow missed the part where Agnes betrays Compass and joins the enemy
SEED haters are retarded

>>23366134
Did Kira ever tell anyone about her betrayal or was too upset about Lacus? Luna even seemed surprised to see her so maybe everyone else thought she was dead.

>>23366151
Keep in mind, Luna was on the Millennium and was thus separated from Kira, Shinn, etc. after shit went down. She also thinks Shinn is dead until he pulls that stupid stunt on her.

>>23360035
what a fucking chad

>>23356655
>>23360035
Astray fags are so pissy
When Tomino said he didn’t like or care about Unicorn, nobody gave him shit
Fukuda says the same about Astray and these people lose their minds

>>23366134
Technically, Agnes never betrayed Compass. She was following orders to shoot down Kira and the Archangel. The rest of the Compass team technically went rogue.

>>23365674
Athrun was 100% the sideshow in Freedom though.

>>23366559
The order was to stop Kira, not kill him. She attacked after his MS was already out of power.

>>23366605
>The order was to stop Kira, not kill him.
Which none of Compass actually obeyed - - - except Agnes. Technically.

Even funnier, Shinn just started shooting the Black Knights and disobeying orders. The Black Knights didn't even do anything to Shinn yet, and he just opened fire on the first chance he got.

So Shinn had to get shot down too.

>She attacked after his MS was already out of power.
Freedom was still standing. The order was to bring down Freedom completely. Kira wouldn't surrender. Agnes simply deliver the finishing blow.

I love how you overlooked the fact that Kira killed dozens, if not hundreds, of innocent EA pilots, soldiers, and ground troops.

>>23366634
EA is never innocent.

>>23366634
>Even funnier, Shinn just started shooting the Black Knights and disobeying orders. The Black Knights didn't even do anything to Shinn yet, and he just opened fire on the first chance he got.
He newtype'd that Kira was in danger even though Mu couldn't sense it

>>23366634
So, you're saying Foundation are the true heroes of the movie.

>>23366724
I'm saying that, before Foundation threatened the world with Requiem, the Foundation could have branded Kira and most of Compass as renegade traitors. Legally, there's nothing Kira could do about it.

Everyone has recorded video footage of Kira disobeying orders and killing EA troops. Shinn going crazy and attacking Foundation. Etc.

If Foundation was smarter, they could have played the long game and branded them traitors for a while. Then once they are sure Kira and Compass was dead Foundation could act.

>>23366767
So, they were like Durandal in that regard.

>>23366767
To be fair to them, they wanted to lean on coordinator outcry against "Naturals" nuking them for support, and that battle was probably the best opportunity.

>>23360047
>Then Fukuda sounded a little annoyed and said the Katana has nothing to do with Astray and he doesn't consider Astray as true gundam seed?
Isn't this a weird stance since those same astrays was gonna show up in SEED originally?

>>23366826
Unless that’s fake information.

>>23366937
I mean I guess if stuff like this was faked years ago https://youtu.be/bIeaQriBJ7w

>>23366767
Nobody in Foundation was willing to play the long game. They wanted to rule immediately.

>>23366767
Foundation was already rather stupidly convinced Kira and co were dead after the Nuke. They'd have no reason to start a witch hunt for people that were dead as far as they knew

>>23360514
>>23360759

No, it was replaced by the Granada accords, and Neo Zeon's not a signatory to them, plus "space object drops" also void the treaty. The only way to enforce any arms control treaty absent a more powerful nation to cry to is to counter-violate them.

>>23360416
We don't actually know what effect N jammers have on Fusion, they might even make it easier, but there is a chance they still interfere and the canceller is still needed.

>>23361072
Delaz bitches about it being a violation of the Antarctic treaty because he refuses to recognize the Granada Accords which superseded them,
>>23361298
>>23361318
There's no indication the Granada Accords actually had any hard ban on developing new nuclear delivery methods.

>>23366559
There was no order to destroy AA. The Black Knights just started attacking them when they caught them where they weren't supposed to be because they wanted to silence everyone.

>>23366956
>We don't actually know what effect N jammers have on Fusion
The Archangel uses laser fusion engines, so I believe NJCs aren't necessary to sustain fusion reactions. Which would seem to make some sort of sense. If a neutron jammer functions by inhibiting the movement of free neutrons, a fission reactor would be stopped cold, but a fusion reactor should still be able to function.

>>23366634
>Which none of Compass actually obeyed - - - except Agnes. Technically.
No. The order was to stop him, not kill him. He was stopped before she attacked.
>Freedom was still standing. The order was to bring down Freedom completely.
Lacus explicitly said "stop Kira" and then comms were immediately jammed by Foundation. Nobody ever said "annihilate the Freedom and kill Kira".
>Even funnier, Shinn just started shooting the Black Knights and disobeying orders.
They moved to intercept him from getting Kira and getting out of there - which would be in line with those aforementioned orders. They attack Hilda unprovoked 10 seconds later too.
>I love how you overlooked the fact that Kira killed dozens
Ah yes, the infamous Kill 'Em All Kira.
You have no evidence that he killed even one EA soldier. Eurasia's complaint against Compass later is just that he "broke the agreement and crossed the military demarcation line", not that he committed mass murder.

>>23366652
After watching Destiny I had a theory that a SEED user spending enough time around, or in combat with, a La Flaga would allow them to develop Newtype senses, and Seed Freedom somehow supported that.

>>23366984
>No. The order was to stop him, not kill him. He was stopped before she attacked.
How do you stop a target that refuses to surrender? There's only one Kira Yamato that can shoot with pinpoint accuracy and disable mobile suits instead of killing. Everyone else are just normal people.

>>23367006
>How do you stop a target that refuses to surrender?
His machine was completely powerless and she went to attack even after he got out of the cockpit.

>>23366583
Athrun also aint a potential Newtype like Shinn is.

>>23367063
While he doesn't get a moment where he senses anybody, he is able to use Strike Freedom's Dragoons, albeit not as well as Kira.

>>23367034
>His machine was completely powerless and she went to attack even after he got out of the cockpit.
>powerless

No. Absolutely wrong.

1. Headvulcans still there.
2. One beam saber still available
3. One wing beam cannon still available.
4. Self-destruct and creating a massive explosion and huge crater was still an option.

>>23367086
>nuh uh his machine that had 0 power left and that was riddled with giant needles to the point the cockpit itself was completely trashed was still a huge threat!
The webm is right there, man. Lmao

>>23367097
Phase shift down doesn't mean a mobile suit can't still self-destruct.

>>23367125
How about a ruined cockpit? How would Kira even be able to punch in the self-destruct sequence?

>>23367079
Unless it got retconned, Strike Freedom and Legend had some sort of computer system onboard that allows pilots without 'enhanced spatial awareness' to use DRAGOONs, albeit not as well as a pilot with that ability. Apparently Destiny's beam boomerangs use a variant of this system because they're quasi DRAGOONs.

>>23367086
>>23367125
By this logic, nothing short of complete atomization counts as “stopping” him.

>>23367145
>How about a ruined cockpit? How would Kira even be able to punch in the self-destruct sequence?

You mean other than Kira moving his right hand pressing the buttons next to him?

>>23367086
1. Headvulcans aren't doing anything to any machine in proximity.
2.You need power to use Beam Sabers
3. Again, you need power to use beam cannons
>>23367218
We have nothing indicating anything in that cockpit is working. There's even less reason to believe that after Agnes comes in with her attack. And in the first place, what motive does Kira have to self-destruct?

>>23367263
>We have nothing indicating anything in that cockpit is working.

Well Kira fought in Strike Gundam with half the cockpit ripped and melted away, and the suit still didn't stop. Gundams are tough.

>>23359851
>Did none of you fools even read the databooks about Destiny Impulse?
>It's said that during testing the Impulse Gundam frame couldn't handle the stress of using the Destiny pack.
>The WoL was too much and the frame cracked.
Now I wonder if the Destiny has phase shift running through the frame like the SF.

One of my biggest issues with the mechanics in the Seed universe is how absurdly fast the tech development is. Like every 6 months there is some massive leap in tech being shown off.

Think about it. It's been only ~5 years since the first Earth-Plant war to the end of Seed Freedom. And yet in that ~5 years, they in the Seed universe went from Ginns, Dinns, Astrays, and Daggers to Mighty Strike Freedom, Destiny Spec II, and Infinite Justice Spec II.Went from the breakthrough of miniaturized beam weaponry to spamming beam weapons with abandon not even a year after beam weapons are first fielded with the 5 G weapons.

IF it was up to me, MS development would have been like this:

ZAFT:
Seed -- Ginns, Dinns

Seed Destiny -- Still mainly Ginns, Dinns with tacked on miniaturized beam weaponry to boost combat power; limited run of GuAIZs

Seed Freedom -- Ginns and Dinns being replaced rapidly; GuAIZ quickly becoming ZAFT's new standard mobile suit; ZAKU Warrior series in testing phase


ORB:
Seed -- Astrays

Seed Destiny -- Still using Astray but with some minor upgrades

Seed Freedom -- Still using minor upgraded Astrays; Murasames added into their forces


EA:
Seed -- Mobile Armors; Strike Daggers

Seed Destiny -- Upgrade Mobile Armors with beam weapons (think Moebius Zero to Exus); Strike Daggers with slight improvements like EMP shielding; 105 Daggers

Seed Freedom -- Upgrade Mobile Armors with beam weapons (think Moebius Zero to Exus); Strike Daggers being phased out; 105 Daggers still in service; Windams in late stage of development and rolled out in limited number for testing

>>23366985
My personal headcanon is just that Shinn is genetically as close to "Kira's aptitude/potential for combat" as Durandal could find which is why he shows him favoritism from the start and if you accept the "Shinn, Luna and Agnes at the military academy" short story as canon from around when SEED Freedom came out as canon had Rey grooming him from even back then
Considering that Kira didn't unlock his ability for spatial awareness until the second war/aging a bit more it's not surprising that Shinn wouldn't either

>>23367437
But is that not consistent with a universe where you have genetically modified super-geniuses?
Both PLANTs and Orb have Coordinators working in advancing tech, while EA with it's Naturals lagging behind.

>>23367325
I considered what happened with the Strike, but the difference is damage seemed too drastic to call things even.

>>23367730
>while EA with it's Naturals lagging behind.
Not necessarily. They do have some Coordinators working for them, and do make some wild advancements by the time of Destiny.

>>23367437
For me, rapid replacement isn't inherently the problem if it's ultra-high intensity like WWII and enough shit gets destroyed that there's fewer to refurbish. There's still rear-line people using GINNs and Daggers, not to mention new treaties shaping MS development. As of Destiny, we still see tons of GINNs like the Zala faction remnants dropping Julius 7, and Freedom has GINNs and DINNs used by the Foundation and Strike Daggers used by Blue Cosmos.

The big thing IMO is what tech progressed. There were ZAFT Ion weapons but it looks like few needed to invest in them before Daggers existed. Within 3 years, they were relatively battery-powered 0079 with GINN physical swords to relatively Zeta or further during Destiny, and beam shields like Crossbone Vanguard mechs on the Strike Freedom.

>>23367730
>Both PLANTs and Orb have Coordinators working in advancing tech, while EA with it's Naturals lagging behind.
EA made Phase Shift and Mirage Colloid.

>>23367998
I was under the impression all the G Project tech was a collaboration between EA and Orb

>>23368002
NTA but I just looked into it.
Mirage colloid was developed independently by both ZAFT and EA, and phase shift armor’s theory had already existed but was made practical by an engineer named “Murrue Ramius”.

>>23368002
Yes, a collaboration, but Orb isn't considered the inventor of most of the tech in the G project. E.g., In Astray, Morganroete couldn't figure out the PS armor in time while secretly working on their first batch of prototype Astray models so they had to go without it. As Astray's story continues, the different models get upgrades that imply Orb's understanding and reverse-engineering of the stolen tech gets better, e.g., the Blue Frame gets trashed in a battle and as part of an overhaul, receives a layer of trans-PS armor for the cockpit, and at another time, they analyze the Blitz's severed arm and are able to reproduce the mirage colloid system and have it work on the Gold Frame despite not having been designed for it.

All of this is separate from the animation, though. There's the fact that the mechanics on the Gamow and Vesalius are able to instantly manufacture replacement limbs and repair the Gundams despite only having the Gundams in their possession for a couple of days while chasing the Archangel, so they were already able to understand and reproduce the PS armor tech from their own shipboard facilities.

>>23368200
>the Blue Frame gets trashed in a battle and as part of an overhaul, receives a layer of trans-PS armor for the cockpit, and at another time, they analyze the Blitz's severed arm and are able to reproduce the mirage colloid system and have it work on the Gold Frame despite not having been designed for it.

I can see why Fukuda really dislikes Astray and doesn't consider it real Gundam Seed. These Manga authors always trying to weasel in their special Mary Su Gundams with their weird upgrades. Gundam manga is always so weird.

Why can't Seed manga authors just tell cool stories with existing suits? Why not tell an awesome story with a Ginn, or a great story with one of those mass produced Strike Daggers that have 20 different variants?

Why must these manga authors always create some super special Mary Su mobile suit that gets infinite upgrades that never make any sense when you spend more than 10 seconds thinking about it?

>>23368216
>Why can't Seed manga authors just tell cool stories with existing suits? Why not tell an awesome story with a Ginn, or a great story with one of those mass produced Strike Daggers that have 20 different variants?
They also already do that

>Why must these manga authors always create some super special Mary Su mobile suit that gets infinite upgrades that never make any sense when you spend more than 10 seconds thinking about it?
They want money. If it didn't sell, it wouldn't still be ongoing after 24 volumes of Astray manga over 23 years.

>>23368238
>They want money. If it didn't sell, it wouldn't still be ongoing after 24 volumes of Astray manga over 23 years.

1. They could probably tell the same stories using mass production suits or mass production variants.

2. The Astray Manga is just a vehicle for extra gunpla sales. Even if the manga sold poorly, Bandai only cares about gunpla sales. Not whether the manga books sell as much.

>>23368240
>1. They could probably tell the same stories using mass production suits or mass production variants.
Again, they also already do that.

>2. The Astray Manga is just a vehicle for extra gunpla sales. Even if the manga sold poorly, Bandai only cares about gunpla sales. Not whether the manga books sell as much.
So what does it matter if they sell a kit of a gundam or a mass production model?

>>23368243
Because maybe Fukuda would be more inclined to acknowledge these mangas if they don't step all over the story with Orb Gundams and use mass production units instead.

>>23368245
Why would he need to acknowledge these mangas in the first place? They're not his stories to begin with.

The problem with /m/ nowadays is that you all want your franchises to get acknowledgement. If it isn't bitching about Fukada's thoughts on Astray and SRW, then it's about Tomino and his thoughts on the greater Gundam continuum. Or the original creators of Yamato and whatever is out there. You need to understand these people are not beholden to the property and nor does the quality of a story depend on the input or opinion of these people.

Let it go... enjoy it for what it is.. don't base your happiness on what someone else thinks..

How do you know they aren't paying homage to Fukada by emulating Fukada's style of creating super gundams with super upgrades?

>>23368261
>Why would he need to acknowledge these mangas in the first place? They're not his stories to begin with.
Not me. It's the Japanese fans who always ask Fukuda what he thinks about Gundam Astray and if Mighty Strike Freedom's katana was designed by Lowe or is related to Red Frame from the manga. Then Fukuda gets annoyed.

>>23368276
Then you should tell that to >>23368245

it's also fukada's fault for giving katanas to the ginns at the beginning of destiny

>Astrayfags mad when told Fuduka doesn't consider Astray canon to Seed.

Knowing how weird Gundam Seed Astray is, it would not surprise me in the future if we see Astray Red Frame running around with some prototype "Proud Defender" and we we Mighty Astray Red Frame. Or even maybe people in the Astray Manga running around with a bunch of Destroy Gundams claiming they bought it at auction or something.

Why is crossing state lines considered more of a conflict of interest than a terrorist everyone wants eliminated getting away.

>>23356662
Meta crap like this is fucking stupid. Fukuda should write a better script if he wanted to show all of this off.

>>23356662
>1. Fukuda felt it would take away from the attention of bringing back Destiny Gundam...which he wanted to be one of the main focuses.
This just sounds like the real reason, the rest could just be written around by having a new variant of destiny impulse that can handle those things.

>>23368748
New new variant of Destiny Impulse would just be a Destiny Impulse with additional batteries on it's backpack or removal of the Wings of Light's afterimages while retaining the boost effect.

>>23368748
Is Destiny Impulse really that important to you? I mean think about it for a second. Even if they could get Destiny Impulse to work, it would be an weaker inferior version of the Destiny Gundam. Not even Destiny Gundam Type 2. But inferior to Original Destiny Gundam.

All you would get is Impulse Gundam with some weaker smaller wings of light. Probably equal to or slightly inferior to a Black Knight. Like how a Black Knight suit has an energy cape that generates after images too, but even Shinn mocks it and says it's a joke.

No it's much better to rely on Impulse Gundams strengths with its quick switching back. Have several scenes with the Blast Impulse pack. Shoot some enemies. Boom boom boom. Swap to sword impulse. Slice up more enemies. Bam bam bam. Swap to Force Impulse. Switch to dogfighting with agile enemies. It's more visually interesting than having Lunamaria be a cheap clone of a Black Knight suit.

>>23368715
>Meta crap like this is fucking stupid. Fukuda should write a better script if he wanted to show all of this off.
Fukuda says he likes being subtle and paying attention to details. He likes when fans spend time looking and analyzing details. For example, he said that the pilots of the Archangel and Millennium ships are different in experience levels. He tried to show that during the visit to Foundation. When landing, the Archangel was smooth and graceful on the water. Meanwhile the Millennium slammed into the water when landing and kicking up a bunch of waves on the water. This wasn't some random thing the animators did. Fukuda said it was a deliberate choice he made to quietly show the audience the difference in experience between the two ships. Fukuda even gave several YouTube anime channels a Like on social media when some of them pointed this scene out, and caught on to the differences between the two ships.

>>23368855
>Is Destiny Impulse really that important to you?
I'm not the one who asked about it, I'm just saying the rest of his reasoning is bullshit because the movie itself is full of new variants of existing MS, all he needed to say was that he didn't want it to overshadow Destiny's return and it would fix everything.

>>23368889
I do agree with Fukuda that Destiny Wings of Light use too much power for batteries. Activating the WoL once would drain all the power after like 60 seconds. If the WoL are turned off, then the huge wings are just extra deadweight. Better to use Force Impulse pack.

>>23368942
>not just handwaving the battery issue by upgrading impulse with the same battery tech as the black knights

>>23366339
Astray has been hard carrying SEED for years. Without it, CE would be yet another barebones setting that gets dropped and ignored like literally every other setting that isn't UC. Cope and seethe.

>>23369147
But the Black Knights absorb the beam and recharge themselves.

>>23369180
it's like all you fucks forgot the deterion beam system

>destiny impulse would have a crippling battery problem
>even though destiny gundam can supply power now
>and the two of them are on the same battlefield and had enough time to recharge even in the middle of a fight against named aces

besides, this is fukada we're talking about, the mechs in his show ignore the rules of their setting all the time and when questioned by people in person, half the time he just tells the fans to fuck off when they asked him technical questions and the other time it's just *laughs*

>>23369147
That would require basically rebuilding the entire frame from the cockpit up because it's their armor that allows for that

>>23369213
pfft other people were able to shove nuclear reactors into the meteors and battery powered gundams, this is minor stuff

>>23369224
The Meteors getting nuclear reactors are believable. Those things are huge with lots of interior space. Just remove a handful of missiles and you now can fit a nuclear reactor. Where are you gonna put it inside of Impulse? It already seperates into 4 different pieces.

>>23369242
In it's backpack. Duh. Just slap a buttplug or something on it with a reactor in it.

>>23368714
Politics in CE largely exists to stop all the non genocidal crazies from siding with Kira and Lacus all the time.

>>23369259
More like exists to force everyone to go along with them, because their ideals are so fucking stupid that no one otherwise would.

>>23369211
If you rewatch the movie carefully, you will notice that Destiny Gundam's power/temperature meter goes up as the battle goes on, and is almost in the red (higher is bad). Almost redlining. Recharging Impulse Gundam just once and the BK battle had made the temperature rise a lot for Destiny Gundam. It needed to power down and cool off soon.

During a Fan Q&A, Fans asked Fukuda about Destiny Gundam's Energy/Temperature meter going higher as the battle against the Black Knights dragged, and if supplying power to Impulse is extra burden on the reactor. Fukuda replied that he was very happy fans paid attention to the small details like that. He did it on purpose. Then another staff member said yes it does. That Shinn was fighting the Black Knights while keeping one eye on Lunamaria as she fought Agnes.

I suppose that's why Shinn didn't try to finish off the Black Knights until he recharged Impulse at least once. He didn't want to overload Destiny Gundam (like in Season 2 against Strike Freedom) until he knew Lunamaria was safe and recharged. Shinn's fighting style has matured, and he was more careful. Shinn doesn't try to immediately to push his suit to limit and finish off enemies quickly. He breaks them down slowly bit by bit.

>>23369262
What's so stupid about their ideals?

>>23368714
I wonder if we'll get a sequel building on that. Zero could too, potentially.

>>23369406
Earth Alliance- "Lets genocide all those people because they are genetically enhanced humans! Also ignore us while we perform inhumane experiments to create our own genetically enhanced not coordinator humans!"

ZAFT- "Lets nuke the Earth with our giant space laser! Lets drop a really really large asteroid onto the Earth and cause an extinction level event!"

Both the EA and ZAFT need babysitters because both their leadership are outright insane.

>>23369424
Would Kira and co. side with Orb if not for Cagalli?

>>23369424
Yeah, that part makes sense. I thought you were talking about Compass.

>>23369433
Assuming Cagalli just never existed? In SEED, yes. In Destiny, I think they'd just lay low for most of the series, then join the Alliance in opposing Durandal at the very end,

>>23369406
>yeah bro, lets all come together and koombaiya with the other faction
>lets just ignore all the horrors we inflicted on each other
>lets just let this random pink bitch become supreme leader of the world
Lacus is as always the real villain of the setting, and of course she wins. Shit is basically mind control tier. It's nonsensical and completely ignores how humans think.

>>23369557
>Let's just ignore all the horrors we inflicted on each other
As opposed to what? Hyperfixating on them while Blue Cosmos runs free? In the first place, the ideals of compass are coming from the exact opposite direction.
>lets just let this random pink bitch become supreme leader of the world
Are you retarded or just trolling?

>>23369570
As opposed to just wiping the third faction out and playing the war out normally, like any sane setting would do. Lacus and company should be treated as the international criminals they are and publicly executed.

>>23369607
>As opposed to just wiping the third faction out and playing the war out normally
So it's trolling then.

It's kind of weird how Stargazer have nanomachines for self-repair while none of the modern mobile suits that came after Stargazer are equipped with nanomachines for self-repair.

>>23369682
It's not on the level of Turn A or Turn X where it can auto-repair in hours or deal with massive damage, it'd probably be more like long term self-repair in weeks or months from small damage like impacts like if it gets pelted by interstellar dust or something like that.

>>23369570
>>23369630
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. SEED haters are retarded. They’ll literally ignore the source material in favor of referring to random message board posts for their info.

>>23369682
Extremely high cost for extremely low benefit. Stargazer is designed to be unmanned for very long stretches of time in deep space, so it needs some means to maintain itself. It doesn’t stitch itself together like it’s made of DG cells, it just keeps it in working order.

>>23369224
It's one thing to swap out a battery for a reactor and another thing to install a system that requires absorbing energy through a state of the art armor system that's completely different from the Phase Shift it's equipped with. They'd basically need to completely scrap the exterior frame and build a brand new one out of Femtek Armor.

>>23369630
It's trolling to consider that the entire idea of the three ships bullshit soloing two entire armies(twice!) and then both armies just shrugging and going yeah, guess the pink bitch can be queen is fucking retarded? Then I guess I guess I'm owed a fuck ton of bridge tolls. More realistically there wouldn't be a single place in the world willing to shelter them and they would be public enemy number one. But no, can't do that because she is the a self insert for brain cancer bitch.

>>23369737
I mean it’s worth noting that Lacus was basically forced into all of this, she just wants to hang out at home but in both cases she got dragged into the war against her will. Even becoming queen for he world wasn’t something she actually wanted, everyone just forced her into the role

>>23369833
I doubt it. Even if she was offered the chance to truly stay away, she wouldn't take it. It's her Accord Queen genes. She subconsciously WANTS to rule. No matter how much she says otherwise.

>>23369737
>soloing two entire armies(twice!)
Never happened even once
Watch the shows, retard

>>23369869
>Even if she was offered the chance to truly stay away, she wouldn't take it.
That’s exactly what happened in SEED Freedom. She was offered to rule and refused.

>>23359609
>ZGMF naming scheme used by many of ZAFT's amphibious mobile suits
I believe that is NONE of ZAFT's mobile suits, they are UMF.

>>23367437
It does not need to follow the arbitrary timeline standards of UC, and no subsequent universe will have toy gimmicks reintroduced at the rate they came up with them in the first 15 years of the franchise. That's also frankly ridiculously slow for Earth spanning genocide wars, you know WWII started with biplanes and ended with jets?

>>23368216
It is a format that Astray created because selling one basic RX-78 reinterpretation except instead of three colors it's three different kits with one of the colors is not exactly the way to sell Gunpla and SEED was successfully planned out in a way that the hobby magazine model build sidestory was fully integrated with the manga sidestory. The Astray itself is a design handed down to them then originally as part of the anime planning turned into 2 modifications to differentiate the others and one given a katana because uh katanas are cool. 00F and friends are a straight copycat and Astraea isn't even slightly trying to hide it's Astray ver.00 (nor is Astaroth for IBO, at least Lfrith isn't following the same naming pattern)

Also as it happens within the actual main Astray manga up until Princess of the Sky over 12 years later there is only Red Frame Flight Unit, Blue Frame Second L, Gold Frame Amatsu, and Gold Frame Amatsu Mina. All the variants come in the Gunpla photo novels or other spinoffs.

>>23369894
Dude what are you talking about? She was already the leader of Compass and had considerable sway with Zaft and EA. I can't remember exactly but she may have even been Zaft chairwoman at one point.

Didnt this whole thing with Fukuda not liking Astray started decades ago? It was because the Astray Manga made Kira get saved by Lowe after his battle with Athrun. And Fukuda didn't like that one bit. Even telling fans that Kira wasn't involved with the Astray Manga.

>>23369282
>Shinn's fighting style has matured, and he was more careful. Shinn doesn't try to immediately to push his suit to limit and finish off enemies quickly. He breaks them down slowly bit by bit.
Nice, Shinn is best boy.

>>23369954
Dude what are you talking about? She stepped down from being on ZAFT’s council to be the leader of a peacekeeping force, turned down Orphee’s offer to start a dictatorship with him, and fucked off with Kira in the end so hard that the novel says they’re never seen in public again

>>23370117
>Orphee’s offer to start a dictatorship with him
>with him.
She doesn't need Orphee. She killed Orphee, and took his place as sole Shadow Empress with Kira as her loyal knight. Lacus does not share power.

>they’re never seen in public again
Watch the remaster. They are literally chilling in Orb. The cast knows where they are.

>>23370123
That’s just Darth Lacus bullshit contradicted by literally every action she ever takes.
>Watch the remaster
I said that was only the case in the novel, retard.

>>23370131
>Darth Lacus
Is canon.

>>23370131
>That’s just Darth Lacus bullshit contradicted by literally every action she ever takes.
Except all her actions support it? Her troops call her Lacus-sama with undying devotion, she run an underground shadow organization with enormous resources that has infiltrated ZAFT and the EA, and she gives weapons so powerful to Kira that nothing can match it. Kira literally killed thousands of people in the blink of an eye to protect Lacus.

>>23370123
Orphee's one mistake was thinking Lacus needed him. At best, Orphee was just some sex toy to Lacus. He could arouse her sexually with his telepathy powers, but nothing more. Orphee has nothing else to offer. Lacus has a better army, resources, and connections than Orphee.

>>23370138
She has a following in-universe due to her actions to avoid the worst possible outcome, she doesn’t run Terminal as we see onscreen at multiple points in SEED Destiny (and it has far stronger ties to Orb than her by Freedom), and Kira does not “kill thousands in the blink of an eye”. Retard SEED hater, try actually watching any of these shows.

>>23370137
That isn't correct. From the SEED Destiny Perfect Phase Fan Book:
>Fukuda: " Lacus watches over others with her charisma . That's why the chairman created a fake one, because this type of person is the most troublesome. Even if Lacus and Durandal met, they wouldn't be able to resolve anything through discussion (laughs). But that's not what Lacus wants to do, just like Kira. In reality, she wants to live an ordinary life. Rather than giving speeches, she'd rather spend her days cooking, cleaning and doing laundry and living an ordinary life."
>Interviewer: No, I don't think that's possible (laughs).
>Fukuda: "Lacus has been like this since the beginning of 'SEED'. She doesn't like to be in the spotlight, and she can handle all kinds of household chores."

>>23370152
>Kira does not “kill thousands in the blink of an eye”. Retard SEED hater, try actually watching any of these shows.
Oh my sweet summer child...What do you think happened when Kira used Mighty Strike Freedom's lightning attack on the enemy space fleet? You think everyone in those ships just floated helplessly in disabled ships? So naive.

>>23370170
>She doesn't like to be in the spotlight
>chooses to be Singer and Zaft Superstar

Hmm...something doesn't add up here.

>>23370170
Fukuda can say whatever he wants, the show tells a different story. She isn't charismatic, she is a psychopath who uses brute force to bend the entire setting to her will. She sure forces herself upon the world a lot for someone who "doesn't like to be in the spotlight."

>>23370152
>Kira does not “kill thousands in the blink of an eye”. Retard SEED hater, try actually watching any of these shows.

1. Kira flies into already disabled and defeated Messiah.

2. Unloads Meteor full burst.

3. Everyone dies.

Explain this.

>>23370185
>Oh my sweet summer child
lol
>Kira used Mighty Strike Freedom's lightning attack
He didn't use it, Lacus herself used it. If you watched the movie, your complaints would be even better.
>You think everyone in those ships just floated helplessly in disabled ships?
Yes, the Proud Defender's discharge attack is deliberately designed to disable and not kill. Because that's what its intended pilot is known for having a preference for doing. You have as much evidence for everybody on every one of those ships dying as you do for anything else you've said - none.

>>23370187
Pretty obvious from the context that 'the spotlight' is taking an active role in politics. I've seen Fukuda suggest she'd rather go back to singing once things settle down.

>>23370188
What he says is perfectly in line with the show.
>she is a psychopath who uses brute force
lol

>>23370221
>You have as much evidence for everybody on every one of those ships dying as you do for anything else you've said - none.
Fukuda said they are dead. If the DIRECTOR of Seed Freedom says they are dead, then they are dead.

>>23370210
>1. Kira flies into already disabled and defeated Messiah.
It fired Neo-GENESIS immediately before that, it wasn't disabled or defeated. He hits it with missiles from the METEOR, then fires a full burst to make sure it can't fire again.
>3. Everyone dies.
We see literally three dead ZAFT soldiers after that, in Messiah's command center of all places. How can you say "thousands" were killed when the area that should have been the most densely populated had a whopping three visible casualties?

>>23370240
By all means, post the quote where he says that it killed everybody on every ship in that scene. The movie shows that it doesn't even damage Dragoons and only disables them.

>>23370240
The best part of that interview answer was Fukuda saying he wanted to show exploding bodies when Kira used MSF's lightning blast. But Bandai won't let him do it anymore because they think Western audiences will get offended.

>>23370185
>>23370240
At the very least, the vast majority of those ships weren't manned. We see Orphee onscreen controlling them to attack. Foundation primarily uses unmanned units for the bulk of their forces.

>>23370251
>By all means, post the quote where he says that it killed everybody on every ship in that scene.
Does this mean you are admitting you're wrong?

>>23370260
It wasn't due to western audiences, it was due to
certain women's groups in japan lobbying for "think of the childrens" laws in the time since seed aired and the movie.

>>23370264
That screen is just for controlling the remote control drone Ziggurats. She's not controlling the entire fleet.

>>23370266
Produce the quote. Though given how completely full of shit you were about everything else, I'm not holding my breath.

Especially given so far, I'm only finding quotes from Fukuda that he originally planned for MSF to have a miniaturized GENESIS/Cyclops on it, before thinking better of it and settling for something less destructive "like Mothra's scales".

>>23370260
>>23370274
That's bizarre, considering what happens just earlier in the film.

>>23370251
Not an argument. Concession accepted.

>>23370264
>blurry 1080p picture as evidence
At least use the 4K version!

>>23370279
>Lacus being an aspiring or actual dictator
Debunked.
>Lacus running Terminal
Debunked.
>Kira being a mass murderer
Debunked twice.
>SEED haters
Eternally retarded.

>>23370251
Anon isn't lying. It's from a Japanese fan event where Fukuda was answering questions from an audience about the movie.

The same event where Japanese fans asked Fukuda whether the world will be upset at Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice returning because the suits break the Treaty regarding nuclear reactors.

Then Fukuda responded that the world will never know they broke the Treaty because everyone who saw Mighty Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice are dead. The entire enemy fleet at the Battle of the Moon was destroyed. No survivors to report back what happened.

You aren't going to find a video of Fukuda saying this, or see the quote published in a databook because event was never video recorded.

We only have some partial transcripts provided from some Japanese fans who attended the event. They shared a few quotes and highlights from the event.

>>23370241
>I only saw a handful of dead bodies. Like 3 or 4 tops. Not enough dead bodies for me to be convinced. Needs more dead bodies.
What kind of retort is that??? You think the giant Messiah asteroid is automated, and all those ships docked inside were empty??

>>23370299
It seems very bizarre that we have transcripts of Fukuda taking questions from audiences, giving speeches at screenings, giving all sorts of interviews for guidebooks and fanbooks, but on this one point, which contradicts the film pretty explicitly (SF and IJ are using new reactors that don't need NJCs, we see the electrical discharge doesn't even destroy Dragoons) we rely purely on hearsay from "some Japanese fans". Okay.

>>23370302
I think a battle, the final battle, was unfolding outside and the vast majority of combat personnel either sortied or deserted.
>You think the giant Messiah asteroid is automated
1. It's not giant.
2. Why couldn't it be automated?
3. I'm not saying nobody died, it's just obviously bullshit that it's "thousands".

>>23370314
>1. It's not giant.
This has got to be the biggest cope response in the entire thread. First it's not enough dead bodies. Now the massive Asteroid base isn't giant enough.

>>23370314
>SF and IJ are using new reactors that don't need NJCs, we see the electrical discharge doesn't even destroy Dragoons
For all we know Fukuda is right. The electrical discharge could fry any organics that come into contact with it. We've seen it before with Cyclops and Nibelung.

>>23370321
That's the part you hone in on?
It's big, but it's not like it's some Death Star-sized base. It might not even be as big as Jachin Due.

>>23370314
>It's not giant.
So what qualifies as giant in your eyes?

>>23370299
>>23370314
>>23370323
Both can be true at once. Everybody who gets a good look at the Freedom, Justice, or Destiny is dead, because that's just Orphee, Ingrid, the Black Knights, maybe Aura. The electrical field takes out the sensors and comms on every ship, and I stand by most of Foundation's fleet being unmanned. But then, even after really searching hard, I can't find shit on these.

>>23370314
We never said Fukuda was consistent with his answers. Only that he said it. How you personally square away Fukuda's answers is up to you.

>>23370336
Well... Being wider than this

Where did this idea that it was a non-lethal EMP attack come from? The Mighty Strike Freedom databooks and lorebooks never say it's an EMP. It's described as an electrical attack. So Kira is literally hitting everyone with lightning.

>>23370351
That can't possibly be to scale. Those Ziggurats are only slightly bigger than Meteor. But We saw entire Zaft ships docked inside Messiah.

>>23370353
From it visibly not damaging anything it hits other than missiles. Moreover, the novel suggests it just renders ships and dragoons inoperable.
>With a mere wave of her hand, Lacus initiated a brainwave sync with the Defender, which instantly targeted all missiles, DRAGOONs, and enemy battleships in range. The instant they exploded, lightning surged out from the Freedom. After countless bolts raced across space, the missiles detonated without reaching them, the DRAGOONs fell, and the battleships were rendered inoperable.

>>23370342
Those are just the Ziggurats.
Technically the whole Foundation-ZAFT fleet isn't near the Freedom though. So sure, it's possible they never actually saw it.

>>23370343
>Only that he said it
*allegedly

>>23369869
>>23369954
Lacus’ position in COMPASS is entirely dependent on the consent of its member nations to her authority, whereas Foundation would have made her an absolute ruler. This is literally the plot of the movie, not sure how you miss it

>>23370251
>By all means, post the quote where he says that it killed everybody on every ship in that scene. The movie shows that it doesn't even damage Dragoons and only disables them.
We all know how this plays out.

1. You get into a Seed argument.
2. You start losing.
3. You change the subject and demand source.
4. Fukuda is shown.
5. Either you insult Fukuda for being a hack director, or you just don't respond anymore.

>>23370406
Lacus is also the leader of Terminal and has huge influence in Zaft. The citizens worship her like a demi-god.

>>23370278
I'd think that "standards of broadcast" or whatever it is they have in Japan would probably be different between prime time TV (SEED / Destiny) and a movie (Freedom).

>>23356389 (OP)
fuckin hirai mouth. ridiculous picture

>>23370463
Lacus doesn’t lead Terminal.

>>23370424
That's not at all how this keeps playing out.

1. Anon posts bullshit
2. Gets called out and refuted with evidence from the shows and sourced quotes
3. Picks some minor shit to autistically fixate on instead of their main claims (i.e., how many people Kira killed takes over the Darth Lacus discussion)
4. Can't even defend that minor point and just disappears
5. Anon makes a new thread to post more bullshit in much later

>>23370210
>nyooo, you can't destroy the death star!! Millions of people were on it!

Meanwhile on Alderaan...

>>23371071
The difference is Luke wasn't some sort of Jesus figure who makes a point to never kill people. Which is also mostly wrong, Kira kills a ton of people earlier as well. Any of those ships he sinks through out the series and most of the suits he disables in space are kills. You think the people drifting in a crippled MS are magically gonna be rescued? No, most of them suffocated. Especially since everyone who could rescue them was blown the fuck up when their ship was shot down. It's not that Kira doesn't kill people, it's that he is a hypocrite who pretends to not kill people.

>>23370969
This really is how it always goes. Shout out to the anon who says Break the World didn't kill anybody because the Alliance military was still intact.

>>23371119
Kira never vows not to kill anybody, nor does he stop any of his allies from doing so.
You think you're making a profound point here... but you're really just retarded.

>>23371119
>make up a scenario
>get mad about it
Classic /m/

>>23370937
>Lacus doesn’t lead Terminal.
Lmao.

>>23370368
There is absolutely nothing in this novel quote that says the lightning blast is non-lethal. It's entirely your head canon.

>>23370342
>I stand by most of Foundation's fleet being unmanned.
We see people on Foundation ships though. Even the Capital ship.

>>23371183
She doesn't.
>Lacus has to go into space at great personal risk to investigate the situation in the PLANTs rather than having "her spies" do it
>when the Dom Troopers show up, Lacus expressly says that they're "offering us a helping hand, so please regard them as allies", instead of just saying "they're with us"
The case could be better made that Orb controls Terminal, if anything.

>>23371190
Contrarily, there's nothing, anywhere, to suggest that it's lethal. The best you could come up with is a Fukuda quote that nobody can actually produce. Even then
>everybody who saw MSF is dead
>the battleships that got their systems fried weren't even in visual range, so they aren't dead

>>23371216
Orb, in particular Cagalli, were the ones funding Terminal, weren't they?

>>23371225
Pretty much everybody anti-war is involved with Terminal in some way. They receive a lot of ZAFT and other (DSSD for sure, possibly Junk Guild) support as well.
Beyond that, Orb straight up lends personnel (Athrun, Meyrin) and machines (Infinite Justice, Cavalier Aifrid) to Terminal, and Morgenroete is given possession over Strike Freedom, Destiny, and Impulse. By Freedom, they're pretty closely tied.

>>23371216
Lacus likes taking a personal hand in guiding things. That's why she goes to space. She can supervise and use her influence more directly with people. Not to mention she just had an assassination attempt on her life and it was safer to go to the Terminal base than staying on the Archangel and constantly getting in battles.

Orb is, at best, a secret ally of Terminal. And that's only when Cagalli came to power. Not when people like Yuna Seiran controlled Orb.

>>23371225
>Orb, in particular Cagalli, were the ones funding Terminal, weren't they?
Terminal is not lacking in funds, and organization existed long before Cagalli came to power.

>>23371279
>Orb is, at best, a secret ally of Terminal
Agreed. There's just a better case to be made for them running Terminal by the end of Destiny than Lacus. Lacus has a lot of influence within Terminal, but they don't follow her command and we see them operating completely independently of her.
>it was safer to go to the Terminal base than staying on the Archangel and constantly getting in battles
Ehhh I don't agree with that. She's nearly defenseless out in space, with just Waltfeld and DaCosta to help her if things go wrong (as they do). There's probably no safer place in the world than being on an unsinkable ship with the ultimate coordinator defending you.

>>23371241
>Beyond that, Orb straight up lends personnel (Athrun, Meyrin) and machines (Infinite Justice, Cavalier Aifrid) to Terminal,

What nonsense headcanon is this?

Athrun chose to be with Terminal because he didn't want to join Compass or the Orb Military. In Compass, Athrun would have to take orders from "General Kira" (which is probably another slight annoyance for Athrun). Athrun likes to lead or have independence if he can't be leader. Athrun is basically 007 James Bond for Terminal. Secret missions and spy craft.

Meyrin is like Athrun's trusted assistant like Q for James Bond. I don't think she belongs to Orb or Zaft anymore. But she's found a new purpose is helping Athrun with his secret missions and Terminal. And since Lunamaria is nearby with Compass, she can visit and say hello often.

Orb didn't "lend" Infinite Justice. They never built it. Infinite Justice was a Terminal built suit that was theoretically "given" to Athrun (once Lacus approved it). So it's Athrun's to do with as he pleases within reason. Unlike Kira, Athrun likes to keep his suit near him at all times and doesn't give af about any Treaties or rules. So he disguises it as a Zgok for fun to help with his missions.

If Infinite needs any repairs or modifications, he can ask his trillionaire girlfriend Cagalli for help. Cagalli will happily say yes and is the leader of an entire nation. What is Orb going to do? Say no to their leader? Lmao. If Cagalli says to secretly fix Infinite Justice, then you damn well believe Orb will repair Infinite Justice. The greatleader said so. If Cagalli says to build a new backpack for her boyfriend's mobile suit, then you believe it's gonna happen no questions asked.

>and Morgenroete is given possession over Strike Freedom, Destiny, and Impulse. By Freedom, they're pretty closely tied.

Well yeah. Terminal and Orb have been friends for a while. They aren't the same organization, but they are allies. Destiny and Impulse are war trophies.

>>23371287
>Lacus has a lot of influence within Terminal, but they don't follow her command and we see them operating completely independently of her.
If Lacus snapped her fingers and asked for something, Terminal would obey her every command. It's just that Lacus is so busy with Compass and other public responsibilities that she leaves Terminal to be run by Walfield and his loyal troops. Lacus trusts him to handle things.

>Ehhh I don't agree with that. She's nearly defenseless out in space, with just Waltfeld and DaCosta to help her if things go wrong (as they do).
You are forgetting that Lacus had those 3 Dom ace pilots. Especially their leader Hilda who seems absolutely obsessed with protecting Lacus. Terminal also had the Eternal ship which is arguably more unsinkable than the Archangel.

I'm more concerned about why Orb hasn't made their own nuclear powered suit, and only upgrades Destiny, Freedom, and Justice.

At the very least they should upgrade Akatsuki to nuclear power!

Even ancient suits like Duel and Buster got nuclear upgrades. Hell even the Meteors got nuclear upgrades.

>>23371310
>What nonsense headcanon is this?
They're straight up just the actual facts. Athrun and Meyrin, with their machines, are officially on loan to Terminal.

>>23371331
They try in SEED Eclipse, but it ends up going very poorly. Beyond that, it may be seen as unnecessarily risky.
As of Freedom, Morgenroete is experimenting with fusion reactors for mobile suits.

>>23371316
The DOM Troopers didn't help when the Eternal got attacked though.

>>23371346
Minor thing but I really like these faction logos now that I look at them, I don't know what it is.

>>23371346
>They're straight up just the actual facts. Athrun and Meyrin, with their machines, are officially on loan to Terminal.

That's not what the Chart says at all. Why are you trying to lie to everyone?

>>23371353
>The DOM Troopers didn't help when the Eternal got attacked though.
Lacus ordered them not. She didn't want to expose their existence just yet. It was Lacus' choice.

>>23371360
That's exactly what it says. See how Orb points to Terminal? See how the box on the arrow says this? See Athrun and Meyrin listed with Terminal? Don't be silly.

>>23371316
>>23371353
The Doms were still in final adjustments when the Eternal gets attacked.

>>23360416
>The SF, IJ, and Destiny shouldn't need NJCs anymore regardless, given they're equipped with fusion reactors now.

Fusion reactors still involve nuclear power.

While Fusion reactors produce more power than standard nuclear reactors, we don't use them normally because of several reasons. One of which is the temperature required for a fusion reactor is 3x times higher than standard nuclear reactor. So there's a lot cooling challenges involved and a lot stress on components.

Which is probably one major reason why Strike Freedom Type 2 overheated during the movie. More power available, but more cooling challenges.

>>23371368
That's not what the Chart implies and you know. At best, you can interpret those few words as Athrun wanting to work for Terminal instead of Orb. It says NOTHING about Orb owning Infinite Justice or any nonsense like that.

>>23371353
Zaft spies only discovered the Enternal. Not the rest of Terminal's base. The Doms could have launched, but Lacus said no. She didn't want to expose the Terminal Factory or the Dom suits yet. So she chose to launch the Eternal and draw Zaft's attention away.

(and Fukuda wanted to set up a scenario of Kira rescuing Lacus)

>>23371387
Neutron jammers don't seem to affect fusion reactors - the Archangel uses laser fusion propulsion just fine, long before the NJC. I posted about it a couple of days ago. >>23366967


>>23371391
There is literally nothing else it could possibly imply. It's very cut and dry.
>It says NOTHING about Orb owning Infinite Justice or any nonsense like that.
Regarding Infinite Justice, "it's Athrun's to do with as he pleases within reason", isn't that right? So it was an Orb suit, now seconded to Terminal.

>>23371404
>>23371387
Forgot to also say - I agree with the rest of your post. I like the idea that the SF just wasn't able to properly handle extra heat output until Proud Defender docked and presumably had plenty of extra coolant.

>>23371404
Not that anon but the impression I got from the movie is that Orb is just a gas station for Athrun's suits. Athrun can go wherever he wants. Doesn't matter if it's Space or Earth. He's welcomed by a lot of secret allies.

>>23371387
Gotta hand it to Fukuda. Even though some people on this board say he's an inconsistent hack, he does pay attention to small details. The US military said railguns require significant amounts of electrical power. It's one reason why they abandoned railgun development in favor of lasers and drones. And Strike Freedom Type II uses FIVE railguns. I bet a fusion reactor is necessary to power all of them.

>>23371417
There's a lot to criticize him for, but I can't say he's not passionate about his work.

>>23371407
This was actually directly mentioned by Fukuda. He said his intention was to show that SF Type 2 coolant systems couldn't keep the reactor cooled down, and SF had to temporarily shutdown the reactor due to overheating. When Proud Defender docked with SF, the Proud Defender's onboard fusion reactor shared some coolant with Strike Freedom's fusion reactor. However this was only supplementary and could not bring Strike Freedom back to full strength. Fukuda said if fans paid special attention to smaller details, they would notice the temperature meter only goes back to 75% when Proud Defender docks. Not the full 100%. He specifically wanted to show the audience that Freedom was still not at full strength even after docking with Proud Defender.

>>23371433
got screencaps?

>>23371450
Diff anon here. You'll need to buy 4K Remastered Edition of the movie. Then look at the exclusive behind the scenes/making of videos.

>>23371346
What went wrong with Eclipse?

>>23371433
>MSF @ 75% can obliterate a fleet of ships
What can 100% do!?

>>23371450
NTA but I have this

>>23371463
>>23371433
So Erica was literally making Kira and Shinn into guinea pigs?

Are Hyper-Deuterion Engine and Nuclear Fusion Reactor the same thing?

>>23371460
Eclipse Unit 2 is stolen by terrorists and is nearly used to nuke Alliance territory (through self-destruction). It just invites trouble.

>>23371466
no, hyper-deuterion is seed season 2, fusion is seed movie

>>23371465
To be fair, it doesn't seem like she was expecting them to show up and ask for them.

>>23371466
Hard to say. The Hyper-Deuterion Engine is a fission reactor paired with a high-performance battery. We don't know if the fusion reactors just replaced the fission reactors, or the whole assembly.

>>23371466
Funny you ask this. A few days I just spent and 2 hours reading a bunch of the Seed Destiny databooks about it. They are a little vague but I'll share what I read and my thoughts. If the old databooks are to be believed, Hyper Deuterion is a "power transfer" technology. Not a direct upgrade to a nuclear reactor. My best interpretation of what multiple databooks vaguely say is that...

One the main problems with suits in Seed Destiny compared to Seed was that there was a lot more beams, and newer more power hungry weapons. The old power transmission systems within the suit couldn't keep up with the power demands of the new weapons and new systems. They couldn't transmit enough power fast enough from the nuclear reactor to the new more powerful weapons. So the old power cables were replaced "laser" hyper Deuterion transmission systems which could handle the higher power load and transmit power faster.

So a good analogy is that it's like internet cables. The old copper wires (used for DSL and Cable speed ) were replaced with newer fiber optic wires which can handle much higher speeds and broadband.

There's also some mentions in books that the power demands of so many new systems and new weapons can temporarily exceed the power output of the latest nuclear reactors that Zaft had. To solve this, they created new "Hyper Deuterion Capacitors" which are like batteries which can provide power during times when the suit demands more power than the nuclear reactor can provide. That's the solution Zaft engineers came up with. All that technology went into Destiny Gundam and Legend Gundam.

Destiny Gundam was particularly notorious for using tons of power with its Wings of Light. So a temporary limiter was placed on Destiny Gundam to prevent the pilot from ovetdraining the suit. The pilot can disable it and enter what's called "Hyper mode" which forces all weapons and systems to 100% output, but drains power quickly. This is what Shinn used against SF in Orb.

>>23371528
So basically is the same thing as 00 Gundam with their GN drives, GN Ribbon power cables, and GN Condensors. Got it.

>>23371587
NTA
Best analogy for the hyper deuterion system I can think of is a faucet (nuclear engine) and a bucket beneath it (battery). For the most part, you can get by with just the faucet, but you might need more water than the faucet outputs quickly, at which point you'd use the bucket. If the bucket runs dry, the faucet refills it, and if the faucet stops, you can rely on the bucket for a while.

>>23371465
>>23371494
Infinite Justice Type 2 was already upgraded with the fusion reactor and was a success. So it's not like Erica was experimenting with no prior data.

Why does every seed thread turn into the same two guys arguing about stats from the data books

>>23372020
Autism.

>>23372037
>>23372020
par for the course for gundam, honestly

>>23372020
I've seen it all. When one side is losing the argument, they scream for sources. It's their last attempt to avoid admitting they are wrong. Then 2 things can happen.

1. Source is not provided - then the guy laughs and claims the entire argument is invalid.


2. Source is provided - but then gets insulted or discredited with various statements.

>Director Fukuda is a hack and doesn't know what he's talking about!

>That databook was from 10 years ago!

>I don't care what the databook says! It doesn't match what I've seen in the anime.


No matter what choice you make, it doesn't matter. It's just one larger strategy to avoid admitting they are wrong. Best not to respond to trolls.

>>23372020
Better question would be “why are SEED haters retarded?”
Because if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be SEED haters.

>>23372065
>Best not to respond to trolls.
But anon, you thrive off the attention

>>23372020
This literally only happens because of the one autists that relies on quotes from fukuda but never provides source/proof like over at >>23370278 he literally just claims it. Just skimmed through most of the thread and it's just constant "In an interview..."-esque claims.
The only reason a few anons ever just take what he says is because of his sheer confidence in whatever he posts.

>>23372967
You have Google and social media. It shouldn't be hard to confirm these quotes or do independent research.

>>23372020
Director Fukuda and several staff members have said to not put too much stock in databooks. They are fun fan service, but the information inside the databooks changes often depending on the needs of the anime. For example, the origin of Strike Freedom which has changed often across several databooks.

Or the origin of the Millennium ship in Seed Freedom. Some staff members have said they had numerous meetings about but still haven't decided where the ship came from or who made it. So their solution is to just have character dialog in the movie avoid mentioning it. Characters do not discuss the origin of the ship or where it came from. The characters just accept the ship and move on with life. Director Fukuda doesn't want to be tied down, and may change the origin of the ship again while making the Seed Freedom prequel anime. This is how Director Fukuda operates.

>>23373066
I always found it weird how some fans expect staff members to 100% follow everything written in the databook. Fans need to realize the databooks follow the anime. Not the other way around. If something changes in the anime then the databooks must change with it.

>>23373093
It's like that one databook that was released in 2001 before Gundam Seed aired on TV. The book said Seed beam sabers don't clash.

So for 25 years we've had one anon screaming about how beam sabers don't clash in Gundam Seed.

Dude refuses to adapt and is insane.

He makes crazy videos about seed production staff don't understand their own universe.

I swear...some of you fools don't even pay attention the movie you are watching. You don't even need Fukuda or databooks to tell you things. All you need is a little common sense and attention to detail. Yet so many of you lack even that!

>>23373124
You mean Wackymodder?

>>23373247
I have no idea what the dude is called. All I know is that he screams about beam sabers not touching in Seed and being mad at the staff for not following a 25 year old databook.

>>23372967
That just isn't true. I try to always give a source, like for >>23370170
See also, the Rau thread >>23361395

I like trying to answer questions and clear up misinfo about SEED, it's a cool setting and I like how I get to learn more and more about it by finding answers.

>>23373247
That's 100% Wackymodder. He constantly screams in his videos.

Granted, it is part of the setting that beam sabers in SEED don't clash, but that was ditched by Destiny.

>>23373527
*after Destiny

>>23373505
>>23373505
Yeah, that's definitely him. I hear he's mellowed out since then.

>>23373557
>I hear he's mellowed out since then.
Lmao. No. He just took his rants to semi-private places now like chatrooms and such.

>>23373577
There was a post here on /m/ that compared him to Chris-Chan that he seemed quite offended by, around the time he stopped being active on Youtube iirc. I feel bad for saying it now.

>>23373557
He's very active on reddit and still yells about beam sabers clashing and how much he absolutely despises the seed freedom movie.

What's the big controversy with beam sabers clashing anyways?

>>23373587
Yeah, thought as much. It was funny for a bit, but now it's just overwhelmingly pathetic. Why he was made into a voice of wisdom among the fandom during the 2010s, I'll never know.

>>23373598
Some random dude spent 20 years yelling at the Gundam community that seed beam sabers can't clash or touch eachother. They just pass through eachother.

>>23373542
*during Destiny.

It's could be argued during Seed since we still have a few scenes of beams touching. But the idea was definitely discarded by Destiny since we have direct scenes of it happening.

>>23373635
I couldn't think of any saber-saber clashes in Destiny. I know that SEED episode 11 was changed in the remaster to remove the saber clashing, and I know of a few instances of it in Destiny, but I wasn't sure.

>>23373633
Sounds like a very reasonable thing to fixate on for decades. What's the big deal whether they do or don't though?

>>23373667
...Although I do wonder, why wouldn't they clash?

>>23373635
Where is there even an explicit example of it in animation, all I can even come up with is that one Destiny/SF art by Shigeta that I feel like might have shown up in an OP or ED but I can't remember which.

Oh right it is OP3 how fucking stupid of me, but this is inconclusive on its own for a number of reasons being
1) it's a fucking OP
2) it's a still shot
3) it's a beam saber and an anti-ship sword, and while say Sword Calamity's frigging laser beams shouldn't clash with anything, in principal the solid sword behind could block things anyways
These beams also don't appear to actually be in contact with each other so make of that what you will

>>23373673
>...Although I do wonder, why wouldn't they clash?
Out of universe, I think it's to make shields more valuable. You have to either dodge the saber or use your shield to block it.
In universe, it's something to do with mirage colloid being the tech behind the beam sabers. Like, it generates a field to keep the saber in its shape, but it's not strong enough to repel other fields, so they just pass through. Like a flashlight beam trying to clash with another.

You actually might think this is a saber clash, but the Black Knights use whatever the same tech as their levitator cloaks/wings for their beam blades for one thing, and both the sparks and sound effects imply they are actually contacting armor to armor here despite the beam blade proximity. There's actually a shot where they imply beams crossing which just results in IJ losing an arm.

>>23373673
It's sort of iffy because how is the beam blade solid enough to bounce off of a shield still

>>23373701
What if the shield produces some sort of physically repelling force?

>>23373707
It is some sort of mirage colloid magnetic field. Effectively like an I field but come to think of it, doesn’t mirage colloid usually just bend beams instead of blocking them? Maybe the saber tries to maintain the saber’s shape enough that it doesn’t let it distort when it hits something anti-beam, like you can’t physically push it through because the EM field is resisting it, but it passes through other beam sabers because they have no mass?

Idk it’s late as fuck

Now Sword Impulse SpecII and GYAN actually do pink on pink, but these are both solid weapons with beam blades so you can still argue the axe is actually being blocked by the body of the sword and not the beam part.

>>23373707
It's not the part that hits the shield being reflected that's an issue as such, it's the blade as a whole retaining sufficient integrity to stop the mobile suit's hand rather than it just "breaking off" and going behind the shield. Blocking beam sabers along the blade always suffers from the "forbidden move" issue but as soon as you start treating them as not functionally fully solid entities it becomes even more weird.

oh damn this was the better frmae

>>23373673
>>23373675
>>23373667
>I couldn't think of any saber-saber clashes in Destiny.

Here. Legend vs Freedom. And yes it's from the remaster. So Fukuda approved it.

>>23373618
>Why he was made into a voice of wisdom among the fandom during the 2010s, I'll never know.
Secondaries and newfags latching onto the most vocally confident retard and taking their bullshit as gospel. Tale as old as time.

>>23373701
Nope. We see Athrun saber clash with the Black Knight beam cape. So we know for sure that sabers clash.

>>23373732
Blowing up those 10 pixels to 1700x1500 doesn't mean I can see fucking shit.

>>23373693
One thing is in a real sword fight you would always prefer to block with a shield rather than clash blades because blocking with a sword fucks up your blade, while in Gundam it has always been better to use your own saber rather than a solid shield which has less resistance to beams. Bringing shields to gun fights is pretty niche and involves shields proportionally much larger than anything but the RX-78 so it did make the presence of shields rather odd. That line of reasoning works for SEED because nothing had a standard shield until beam melee weapons.

>>23373738
The broad side of it hits Justice's arm, it's not drawn far enough down to be touching the blade of the beam saber.

>>23373766
>complaining about the animation quality.

Nibba it's a direct screencap from the remastered episode. If you have complaints, then go complain to Fukuda.

>>23373773
The HD remaster isn't at whatever retardo resolution you prnt scrn'd it from youtube thirdie, but if you want to base your world view off of one frame in the middle of two MS flying past each other where you can't actually see anything I'm not going to waste my time stopping you.

>>23373780
It's a screenshot from the official Gundam channel. Dont be upset that your cheap phone can't stream 4K resolution. Lmao.

>>23373766
>>23373714
>>23373713
Only a donkey like you would use 1080p pictures when the movie was released in 4K.

>>23373834
Fukuda could make an anime about genocide being bad because he's never met your race.

>>23373675
>asks for examples from the anime itself.
>gets shown examples from the anime itself
>NoOOOoOoooO thaT doEsn't coUnt!
This is why no one likes seed threads and seed fans.

In case you're wondering, this is this brownoid's "evidence"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne8TWBw1pLA#t=10m17s
A scene where SF and Legend charge at each other with their beam shields out, the intern that composited it had them overlap for 1 frame where their beam sabers maybe overlap instead of their beam shields but you literally have to stop the video to even guess, and even then it does not show proof of beam sabers actually deflecting each other because of the angle and continuing to move past each other, then they turn around and clash beam shields while doing nothing with their beam sabers.

But clearly this means all the effort they made to storyboard elaborate poses using shields every other time across 25 years was just a coincidence.

Looks like Wackymodder invaded the thread again.

You posted a 6 hour rant about how much you hated Seed Freedom to your private followers.

We get it. You really hate Athrun's Z'Gok, you really hate Murrue not dying, and how much you REALLY hate that the animators made beam sabers clash in the movie.

Was 6 hours of ranting not enough? Do you really gotta come here and shit up the thread?

If you were a real man then you wouldn't have tried to hide your rant and keep it to private followers only.

>>23373947
Lot of words just to say, "I don't like it therefore doesn't count."

>>23373701
Are you stupid? The Black Knight suit doesn't use dual emitters for the leg beam saber. It's a single emitter from the foot.

>>23373886
>>23373947
>>23373971
Could you sperg out harder?

Are people really still this autistic about the beam saber clashing thing? What does it matter if they do or don't anyway?

>>23374332
It doesn't matter at all, it just happens the people who think they changed it when Freedom is still elaborately choreographed around shield or limb blocking sabers and seems to explicitly show them pass through each other are retards looking for something to bitch about.

>>23373057
Except that for what I have searched, they never show up.
If you weren't retarded you'd know they have the burden of proof after that, otherwise it's obviously a lie.

Isn't it nice to have such heated SEED debates more than 20 years after it's airing date?

>>23374551
Bro you straight up get given citations but can’t find the source? Are you an imbecile?

>>23374442
>limb blocking sabers
You seriously are trying to push this nonsense? It's clear that black knights and and Infinite Justice clashed beams.

>>23374854
About as clear as your poop stained muddy skin, your understanding of the English language, or which rapists go on your family tree.

>>23374854
It's pretty funny. He's trying to argue that they are slapping the sides of their legs together. As if Athrun is that incompetent when it comes to beam sabers. Lmao

>>23374886

It doesn't make sense either.

That theory requires both pilots to actively AVOID clashing their sabers together.

Which neither of them were doing.

Not to mention the animation doesn't support it at all.

>>23373673
>...Although I do wonder, why wouldn't they clash?

They do clash. Gundam seed battles are based on high speed air plane ¥dogfights" with inspiration from high speed racing thrown in (Which makes sense since Fukuda directed the Cyber Formula anime). Seed duels have quick moments where heroes and villains clash, then fall back and try again. Fukuda isn't interested in super long and elegant sword duels, or moments where characters stand there, rest, and talk. Things must always be moving and kinetic. Fukuda must have a rhythm going during battle. Remember that Fukuda famously called Gundam X boring. There's a lot of standing still and talking in thst anime.

If Fukuda directed live action, his movies would be very similar to Top Gun Maverick, Rush, or several other racing movies. Constant movement, cockpit reactions, and quick cuts.

In Seed, you have a shield because it's still important to block incoming long range beam attacks. And if you don't attack an enemy's shield, then they can use it as a weapon to bash you. Strike Gundam did it, Aegis Gundam did it, Freedom Gundam did it, and Justice Gundam did it. Shield bashing happens multiple times in Seed. In group battles, shields help defend against multiple targets. Like Freedom fighting against the Druggies. Kira used his shield a lot.

By Seed Freedom, Fukuda has chosen to make shields even more active in battle. Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice have remote control beam saber shields.

To Fukuda, shields aren't just disposable chunks of metal. Fukuda thinks shields are cool and a big part of a suits overall "look".

>>23374551
It's cringe that you don't know how to use Google, check social media, and put in a little bit of effort. One anon told you it was on the behind the scenes videos for the 4K Special Edition, and another anon said it was from Xwitter. Why are you still complaining. Go buy the 4K Special Edition with exclusive interviews if you care so much.

>>23375172
I'm not even whoever anon your talking about, That post was my first in the thread. Some anons here just know a select few are full of shit.
Learn to fetch your sources.

>>23375256
>Learn to fetch your sources.
If you ask nicely then *maybe* someone will take pity and tell you. But no one is under any obligation to spoonfeed you. This isn't reddit. You can't downvote us. We aren't your maid servants.

>>23374964
Does this mean we're likely never getting i-fields in the Cosmic Era like picrel?

>>23375422
That's basically what Geschmeidig Panzer is.

>>23375422
-Do you mean I-fields as weapons?
If so...probably not. It's a little too futuristic and vague. Closest you'll get is Impulse Gundam using it's beam shield to ram enemies and short circuiting them for a few seconds

-Do you mean like I-fields as shields? Beam shields sorta fulfill that role.

UC Gundam creators always been obsessed with making invincible Gundams with super shields and I-fields that can't be broken. With it getting so bad with Gundam Unicorn even making beam sabers pointless.

Fukuda doesn't work like that. He's always maintained that every defense has a weakness. And Gundam Seed Freedom made this even more clear. Physical shields get smashed with enough hits. Beam shields getting cut through. Phase Shift fails. And even Femto Tech armor also has weaknesses.

Fukuda has always be consistent that beam sabers always win when the saber isn't blocked by a shield or another beam saber. There is no armor defense against beam sabers.

And now we have Heat weapons too that cut through phase shift armor.

>>23375422
That's what Geshmeidig Panzer is used for. Units like Forbidden Gundam, Impulse Gundam, Forbidden Blue Gundam, Destroy Gundam, and the suits from the Freedom movie that use it.