What was the point of saving Rey and Flay (initially) if this was his end game? He hypocritically considers himself qualified to punish humanity because he was created from their hubris but he's just aggravating the cycle of hatred that he criticizes every other human for perpetuating due to his own personal trauma and dressing it up as some sort of grand judgement

>Fllay
Disposable asset to deliver crucial technological data to the Federation to further facilitate and escalate the conflict.
>Rey
Retcon, disregard his existence because he was not written when Rau was.

>>23361329
>Disposable asset to deliver crucial technological data to the Federation to further facilitate and escalate the conflict.
There was no reason he couldn't have gotten them the intel on the nuke stuff some other way.

>>23361324 (OP)
Rau's intelligence level is between a toddler and edgelord middle schooler. Don't expect him to be philosophically consistent.

It's easy to dismiss Rau as simply fucking crazy, because he is, but there's a bit more to him than just being evil. Part of him wants humanity to perish, but another part of him doesn't want that to happen.
>he gives genuine advice to Athrun and to Yzak, even directly saving Yzak's life at JOSH-A, and he has decent relationships with Durandal and Rey
>he sent out Flay with the NJC plans to leave a possibility that the world would be saved, rather than just transmitting them to Azrael directly
>he expresses that he'd be 'happy' to be defeated by Mu at Mendel
He wants to believe humanity can be good, that they can put their selfishness aside and do the right thing, but everything he sees in the war convinces him otherwise. He leaks Operation Spitbreak to the Earth forces, who proceed to nuke their own personnel. ZAFT retaliates with excessive brutality. When the Alliance gets the NJC plans, they decide to start launching nukes instead of using them for reconstruction.

>Flay
Rau only took her with him because she reacted with "Daddy?/Papa?" when she heard his voice, so he thought she may have been related to Al Da Flaga.
>Rey
Rey is a kindred spirit to Rau, and he wants him to have a better life than he had.
Ironically, the two people who could relate best to Rau were Kira and Mu in the end, and he detested them, but also didn't. It begs the question - was him grinning at the very end because he thought humanity would die, or because he was glad he might have been wrong?

>>23361386
I didn't just pull this out of my ass either by the way. From an interview with Fukuda in SEED Official Guidebook 3:
>Inside Rau, there was a part of him that wanted to destroy humanity, but also a part that didn't want to do so, and he saw that he had no future and his death was near. Sending Flay out was more like a gamble, tossing a coin, rather than a conscious opening of a door. He entrusted the decision on a crucial moment that would determine the fate of the world to a place beyond human understanding, and as a result, the data was passed on, so he had no choice but to go all the way.
>Though he hated Kira, he also loved him as a being who, like him, was artificially created for personal desires, and whose life had been distorted since birth.
From the December 2003 issue of Gundam Ace:
>He is truly a lonely existence.
>Among them, Kira and Mu are the ones he thinks are closest to him.
>From Rau's perspective, Kira is someone who could have come to his side.
>In the end, he wanted to believe in a bright world, but he was consumed by only unpleasant things.

>>23361386
All this just makes him crazy and stupid to boot. Which is good, that's what he should be.

>>23361386
>Ironically, the two people who could relate best to Rau were Kira and Mu in the end, and he detested them
I don't think he hated Kira, I think he hated that Kira didn't agree with his view of humanity despite being produced from the same "process" because he had a normal family life that Rau never did.
His 'argument' with Kira at the end isn't him trying to break his spirit it's him looking for validation from the only person he thinks is qualified to understand and endorse his world view

>>23361412
He hated Kira not as an actual individual (they barely know each other), but rather as the incarnation of of "mankind's hubris", an very abstract concept.

>>23361395
>Sending Flay out was more like a gamble, tossing a coin, rather than a conscious opening of a door. He entrusted the decision on a crucial moment that would determine the fate of the world to a place beyond human understanding, and as a result, the data was passed on, so he had no choice but to go all the way.
Fukuda does this bullshit all the fucking time: talking about his own show as if it wasn't his own doing. Let's imagine Kira rescues Fllay's capsule. Then what? We have no finale.
It's complete nonsense that nobody with two brain cells to rub together can possibly take seriously.

And no, this is him talking about his own show, not from the character's perspective. He did the same when he commented on how the Destroy is a lame unit because it gets destroyed too easily. You did that, dumbass! You!

>>23361429
He's talking about Rau's mindset, not suggesting that it was actually a coin flip as to whether Flay would be rescued by the Archangel or Dominion...

>>23361386
>He wants to believe humanity can be good, that they can put their selfishness aside and do the right thing, but everything he sees in the war convinces him otherwise. He leaks Operation Spitbreak to the Earth forces, who proceed to nuke their own personnel. ZAFT retaliates with excessive brutality. When the Alliance gets the NJC plans, they decide to start launching nukes instead of using them for reconstruction.
Speaking of "the writing undermining its own argument", this proves Kira to be in the losing side of this conflict. While there are some fleeting moments of actual human decency ("oh, look, some Earth Alliance ships joined our fleet after being destroyed en masse!"), the overall pattern of the Cosmic Era is of never-ending conflict. The scene that follows Rau's rant is a montage of bigotry from Kira's perspective. There's no point in fighting for a cause that will collapse with the next crisis.
May I need to remind you that the Earth Alliance tried to murder everyone on ZAFT for the third time after Break The World, a terrorist attack they outright refused to investigate? Imagine if the US had responded to 9/11 not with a low-footprint invasion/bombing campaign (yes, it was small: some 5,500 troops to take over a country of 25 million people) by launching ICBMs at every Muslim nation on the planet. That's the equivalent.

>>23361442
Don't feed it. This retard's been at this for a minute now.

>>23361444
Kira only loses if he stops believing that peace is possible. That's the whole point of the constant "SOREDEMO"

>>23361444
Are we really kickstarting this debate again?

>>23361412
Yeah, not outright hate, but he resented Kira for what he represented, and for his role in his birth. Rau exists solely as a means to raise funds for Kira's creation. His entire tortured existence, a clone to be used and thrown away by an absolute piece of shit, is all because a scientist really wanted to make a perfect 6 IV human.

>>23361451
>Kira only loses if he stops believing that peace is possible.
And you don't see the issue there? The world's peace, millions of individuals, cannot depend on the mindset of a single individual. There's no collective effort here, just one guy acting on his whim to "intervene" alone.

>>23361457
Nobody is asking you to reply, phoneposter. Leave.

>>23361448
Same to you.

>>23361465
Anon, what value do you see in repeating the same debate we just had last week, or in indulging a moron that can't even read quotes right?

>>23361386
>even directly saving Yzak's life at JOSH-A

Uh no he sends Yzak to his death by telling him the AA is there and implying he should attack it, which would have left him in the Cyclops radius which Rau already knew about. He wasn't expecting Kira to suddenly appear and send Yzak packing just in time to save his life.

>>23361469
The value is that I don't see any hope in the Cosmic Era, and I want you to see that. I detest Rau and everything that moron stands for, but the main cast of characters is hopelessly naïve about the world at large. They're only there to look cool, but nothing that they do can change the deep-set currents of the world.

This scene right here. This is the kicker. Nothing else is relevant.

>>23361462
You're missing the point entirely I think. It goes beyond Kira (Azrael and Zala are both stopped by those around them), but Kira and Rau are the ones having the argument.

>>23361476
Yzak tells Rau that he broke through two gates, and was going to tear apart the interior of the base the next time. Rau instead suggests that he go after the Archangel on the outside of the base. It seems he wanted Yzak to have at least a chance of surviving instead of throwing his life away.

>>23361481
>The value is that I don't see any hope in the Cosmic Era
That's not consistent with the setting though. Cosmic Era is objectively on an upward trajectory after SEED and after Destiny.

>>23361481
>A group of radicals immediately getting stopped for attempting to commit war crimes by a group that isn't even our protagonists
This is the kicker?

>They can do nothing about the world
There were at least five possible avenues for problem solving brought up in the CE last time. You made rebuttals to maybe two and ignored the rest.

>>23361386
>or because he was glad he might have been wrong?
I guess he was right to say "no matter what happens now, I've won" then.

>>23361492
>A group of radicals immediately getting stopped for attempting to commit war crimes
Except this isn't a "fringe group of radicals". These are the regular Earth Alliance forces, commanded and sent over by their political/military leadership with a mission to genocide Coordinators.
You want me to rant about chains of command and military responsibility? The orders from the top were to obliterate the PLANTs. From what we can gather, everyone from the Earth Alliance fleet was in on the task.

>There were at least five possible avenues for problem solving brought up in the CE last time.
What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>23361481
>another atrocity in response to an atrocity
We definitely have gone over this in a recent thread.
As far as anybody other than Djibril or Cagalli on Earth knew, ZAFT didn't even try to stop Break the World. The Alliance responded to an atrocity with an atrocity. That doesn't suggest that the setting is doomed, but that people are prone to make drastic decisions when faced with extreme injustice.

>>23361481
>The value is that I don't see any hope in the Cosmic Era,
unironically SOREDEMO!..

>>23361481
Rau, that still doesn't mean the solution is to just give up and let everybody kill each other.

>>23361510
>As far as anybody other than Djibril or Cagalli on Earth knew, ZAFT didn't even try to stop Break the World.
That's Durandal's fault (or rather, his "keikaku") for not showing the real footage. In fact, he could've shown that they were actively interfering with ZAFT's efforts to blast the damn thing.

>The Alliance responded to an atrocity with an atrocity.
The Alliance was barely affected by it. If your argument was to have any legs, then they wouldn't have added a fucking line that outright says "oh, the Earth Alliance is doing pretty good, all things considered!".

>>23361526
We've definitely talked about exactly this before. Let's just retread it I guess.
>That's Durandal's fault (or rather, his "keikaku") for not showing the real footage.
The photographs weren't tampered with and ZAFT admitted they were genuine.

>The Alliance was barely affected by it
Totally false. The entire world was affected by Break the World with specifically Rome, the Parthenon, Shanghai, Beijing, the Gobi desert, Quebec, and Philadelphia being annihilated, and the death toll was so catastrophic as to be incalculable. Public sentiment was overwhelmingly anti-PLANT worldwide.
Their initial military power was what wasn't significantly affected, because their entire space force was, naturally, in space.

>>23361486
>Cosmic Era is objectively on an upward trajectory after SEED and after Destiny.
Where's the "upward trajectory" you speak of? Earth is a wreck after two devastating wars and the effects of Break The World. Eurasia is actively unraveling. PLANT lost a couple of habitats, but it's more or less doing okay.

>>23361520
If you leave the people of the CE to their own devices, the end result is that hatred prevails and they end up killing each other. As fucked in the head as he was, the only thing Rau did was act to accelerate already existing trends.
Just like >>23361386 said, Rau "did things" to prove humankind wrong, and they failed in every step of the way. Nobody in a position of political/military power in either major faction did anything to stop the insanity. At that stage, you can only conclude that whatever actions they take aren't "the ideology of fringe radicals" as some people claim but, rather, have sizeable constituencies.
This is what I want you to consider: the popularity of extremist (ie. genocidal) ideas across the CE.

And a setting where the only bulwark is a handful of people is simply not sustainable. Imagine if Amuro and the "glowing T" psychoframe had popped in the Cosmic Era. The "light of the human spirit", where the collective will of humankind gathered in sync would've barely been a flicker, the Nu wouldn't have had any energy and Axis would've dropped on the planet.

>>23361539
>Totally false.
>and the death toll was so catastrophic as to be incalculable
IT SAYS SO IN THE SERIES. You are not contradicting me, but the SERIES'S OWN FUCKING WRITING, YOU DUMBASS. Yes, I know the line is juxtaposed with the footage on Phase 07, but that's what we have to work with, so take your complaints to Fukuda.
I agree this is beyond retarded, but that's only because it is the show itself that is dismissing your claims when it says that both Eurasia and the Atlantic Federation are "as healthy as they can be". What do you want me to do?

>the Gobi desert, Quebec, and Philadelphia being annihilated
I'm not considering anything outside the "main text" (Destiny). Stargazer is irrelevant to this discussion.

>with specifically Rome, the Parthenon
Djibril dismisses them as "very old structures", of little relevance to his plans.

>>23361544
Blue Cosmos has lost all institutional power and resorts to suicide bombing, even hitting Naturals. Coordinator supremacists in the PLANTs are a fringe group that are cracked down on immediately when they stage a coup. All of the greatest world powers throw their weight behind a peacekeeping force, and are willing to throw their own forces on the line in support of them. There are very few extant problems left, they solely need to keep stamping out Blue Cosmos when they crop up.
>If you leave the people of the CE to their own devices, the end result is that hatred prevails and they end up killing each other.
But that isn't true. The people of CE ARE willing to rise up against injustice. Most of the Alliance sides with ZAFT to depose Logos, much of ZAFT sides with Orb and the Alliance to stop Durandal.
Yes, Rau wanted humanity to prove his theory wrong. But they did. The war did not end in mutual extermination. By the end of Destiny, and especially by the end of Freedom, almost everybody is on the same page - the fighting needs to stop.

>>23361561
You sorely need to get a hold of yourself. Calling me a dumbass, when you missed the scene in that very same episode where Durandal talks to Meer and mentions all these locations that got hit hard and the resulting innumerably high death toll?
>Stargazer
???

>>23361539
>The photographs weren't tampered with and ZAFT admitted they were genuine.
They were genuine, but most definitely edited footage to make ZAFT's regular forces look like the culprit. You are ignoring the fact that a) ZAFT tried to stop the drop, b) Phantom Pain were an obstacle in the effort, and c) Djibril gets to spin the story to his liking, while Durandal does nothing to set the record straight.

>>23361576
>Calling me a dumbass
You are a dumbass because, when the series says in dialogue that the Earth Alliance is, to repeat myself, "as healthy as it can be" regardless of footage, you just refuse to acknowledge that line. Or the fact that the EA's combat power is, by all accounts, barely affected by Break The World.
Truth be told, I'm not really angry at you personally. I'm angry at this godfuckingstupid writing. I want events to have real consequences, not get dismissed as "that thing that happened some episodes ago".

>>23361564
>Blue Cosmos has lost all institutional power and resorts to suicide bombing, even hitting Naturals.
They did that even when in power, so no, this argument is moot.

>The war did not end in mutual extermination.
Imagine if the Three Ships Alliance had been defeated. Then the war ends in mutual extermination, no matter how you slice it.

>they solely need to keep stamping out Blue Cosmos when they crop up.
Compass could barely dent their forces across numerous interventions; the operation against their current head honcho only cut one head of the hydra, not eliminate them wholesale. And their ideology is justified more than ever before after a bunch of Coordinators destroyed a major city on Earth.
In case you weren't aware, ideologically-committed terrorists are almost impossible to eliminate. They will cause endless instability to a polity, as the examples of the Irish Troubles, Afghanistan and Burma prove.

>Coordinator supremacists in the PLANTs are a fringe group that are cracked down on immediately when they stage a coup
>much of ZAFT sides with Orb and the Alliance to stop Durandal
A bunch of ships join them in the final battle, but "much" is a bit of a stretch.
And the bulk of the fleet goes with Jagannath on his coup, which only gets stopped because he leaves the capital undefended to support Foundation. The only ZAFT forces in space that face him are the ones attached to the Eternal.

>>23361324 (OP)
>but he's just aggravating the cycle of hatred that he criticizes every other human for perpetuating due to his own personal trauma and dressing it up as some sort of grand judgement
people be like that irl

>>23361610
>They did that even when in power
When did they rely on suicide bombings and guerilla tactics to get what they want prior to Freedom?

>Imagine if the Three Ships Alliance had been defeated
And Axis would have been dropped on Earth without Londo Bell, what's your point?
>Compass could barely dent their forces across numerous interventions
Anon, they couldn't even fix the mobile suits that they were throwing out.
>only cut one head of the hydra, not eliminate them wholesale
Firstly, the main goal is to cripple their ability to fight and harm people. Seeing as they are out of funds to even repair their mobile suits even under leadership, things are on the right track. Secondly, you are literally imagining new problems for the cosmic era to deal with at this point.
>Their ideology is more justified than ever
A group of supremacists that gets defeated by compass (a group of coordinators and naturals) is not "more justification than ever." In the first place, Blue Cosmos has no place to talk following Berlin, which was only a year ago.

>A bunch of ships join them in the final battle, but "much" is a bit of a stretch.
This is getting ridiculous.

>>23361605
>You are a dumbass
No, you're worked up and confused.
The Alliance, as in the Alliance military, was largely unaffected by Break the World. The Alliance, as in the nations that make up the Alliance, were absolutely affected by Break the World. The line you're referencing is specifically about their military, the lines I'm referencing are specifically about their domestic situation.
As far as the average Alliance soldier believes, or even the average citizen on Earth, they're justified in retaliating against the PLANTs. Which would be why nobody tries pumping the brakes on Foxtrot November. You seem to be portraying it as "the Alliance randomly launches an unprovoked attack on the PLANTs just for the lulz" which isn't accurate.

>>23361610
I don't really wanna relitigate all of this, we just did it last week or so.
>They did that even when in power, so no, this argument is moot.
Not quite. People who are concerned that Coordinators are really dangerous are not realistically going to sign on to suicide bomb Naturals.
>In case you weren't aware, ideologically-committed terrorists are almost impossible to eliminate. They will cause endless instability to a polity, as the examples of the Irish Troubles, Afghanistan and Burma prove.
The better analog to Blue Cosmos would be ISIS. Yeah, they aren't technically gone, but the damage they can do has been massively curbed.

>>23361386
No seriously, why do SEED threads always seem to have a random anon or two show up who have all this in-depth info about the setting?

>>23361711
Already answered you on the other thread: >>23361703.
The other settings are more or less "solved", but the CE is a massive gulf of wasted potential.

>>23361713
Maybe he doesn't put much stock in the words of seething retards?
>>23361711
Honestly, it just seems to be part for the course in every Gundam setting. The second a series introduces lore, it inevitably becomes someone's mission to learn all they can about it.

>>23361726
Par*

>>23361667
>When did they rely on suicide bombings
What do you think the destruction of JOSH-A was, if not killing a bunch of Naturals in order to get to the Coordinators?

>And Axis would have been dropped on Earth without Londo Bell, what's your point?
Bad example. This is like if the Federation had fired the Solar Ray at Side 3 to end the war. And Londo Bell was a Federation task force, not a rogue third party with stolen MS.

>Anon, they couldn't even fix the mobile suits that they were throwing out.
>they are out of funds to even repair their mobile suits even under leadership
Only the Destroys (very complex machines that require dedicated pilots) were in visible disrepair. Their force of Windams was fully functional.

>The Alliance, as in the Alliance military, was largely unaffected by Break the World. The Alliance, as in the nations that make up the Alliance, were absolutely affected by Break the World.
These are not separate things. Do you actually believe an armed force's preparedness exists independently of its home nations? If the story is telling us that the Atlantic Federation and Eurasia are doing okay, then it means that the devastation on the cities enumerated by Durandal is "within acceptable parameters". Think of the effects of an especially bad earthquake or hurricane: even if a city like LA or Houston gets utterly devastated, that wouldn't affect the US as a whole.
You have to be a DUMBASS to even be typing this.

>You seem to be portraying it as "the Alliance randomly launches an unprovoked attack on the PLANTs just for the lulz" which isn't accurate.
No, I'm portraying it as "the Alliance launches an act of mass extermination", which makes them as awful as the Zabi family.

>People who are concerned that Coordinators are really dangerous are not realistically going to sign on to suicide bomb Naturals.
Official timeline says that Blue Cosmos sees its ranks inflate for the hundreds of thousands, so there's a good slice of extremists.

>>23361713
I saw it, I’m just bewildered anon.
Rau is a fucking loon and here some anon just types up a few paragraphs with specific examples and word of god backing suggesting he had some actual depth after all.

>>23361713
I just feel like it’s odd seeing it for SEED while I still see UC threads that just go braindead right away.

>>23361737
>Rau is a fucking loon and here some anon just types up a few paragraphs with specific examples and word of god backing suggesting he had some actual depth after all.
https://teruzuki.dreamwidth.org/684.html
And no, I don't give any credence to any fucking thing Fukuda says. He's well known for bullshitting. People are still repeating that old line that the druggies were "death row convicts" even after Destiny.

>I just feel like it’s odd seeing it for SEED while I still see UC threads that just go braindead right away.
UC is too sprawling and contradictory across side material to get any cohesion out of it.

>>23361734
NTA
>If the story is telling us that the Atlantic Federation and Eurasia are doing okay
It isn’t, get your head out of your ass already. The ZAFT council is questioning if the Alliance could attack them and assessing their military readiness which is completely different from whether a GLOBAL calamity hurt their people.

>>23361744
That’s just all /m/ creators though, Tomino literally wrote G-Reco to be in a different time than everybody else who worked on it thought

>>23361734
>What do you think the Destruction of JOSH-A was?
A mousetrap operation that BC literally duped its soldiers into fighting isn't remotely like the suicide missions of Freedom. How is this even a point of debate?
>Bad example
The conflict in CCA is far more thematically fitting for this and fits the existential threats of the end of Bloody Valentine besides. To go further, you literally brought CCA up just a few posts ago.

>Only Destroys
Those have been their go-to heavy hitters/main tool for devastation since their inception. And what does that leave them with? The outdated mobile suits Shinn was slicing through like butter a year ago? Even putting that aside, their numbers clearly pale in comparison to what they had for the second Bloody Valentine.

>>23361749
>It isn’t, get your head out of your ass already.
They seemed to be doing fine when the Minerva docked around Anatolia. You expect that a "global calamity" would make the whole place look like the Gaza strip with masses of people looking for food, not a tourist resort with quaint little bazaars.
This is what I mean with "consequences". Break The World should have visible repercussions on the planet and feel like "The End of the World", not toss it aside as "eh, that thing that just happened a few episodes back, no biggie".

>The ZAFT council is questioning if the Alliance could attack them
Not even that. They had already concluded that the Alliance was going to move to destroy them.

>which is completely different from whether a GLOBAL calamity hurt their people.
A global calamity that, from their own assessment, mostly affected areas around the Equator.

>>23361776
>To go further, you literally brought CCA up just a few posts ago.
Philosophically. As far as factions are concerned, it's closer to 0079 with Federation and Zeon analogues.

>Those have been their go-to heavy hitters/main tool for devastation since their inception.
That only happened once. On their second (Heaven's Base) and third (Arzachel), they were "outdated mobile suits Shinn was slicing through like butter".

>their numbers clearly pale in comparison to what they had for the second Bloody Valentine.
Yeah, because they were part of the regular Earth Alliance back then, rather than a rogue group.

>>23361795
>Philosophically. As far as factions are concerned, it's closer to 0079 with Federation and Zeon analogues.
The OYW Federation wasn't anywhere near as bad the Earth Forces in SEED. A better analogue would be the Titans.
>That only happened once. On their second (Heaven's Base) and third (Arzachel), they were "outdated mobile suits Shinn was slicing through like butter".
Firstly, I was alluding to the Windams with that line. My bad for not mentioning the Impulse for clarity. Second, the Destroys jobbing (like all Earth Forces mobile suits) has no bearing on whether Blue Cosmos is leaning on them. Every single battle Blue Cosmos enters of its own will has at least a dozen of them around.
>Yeah, because they were part of the regular Earth Alliance back then, rather than a rogue group.
So you're saying that Blue Cosmos has lost its institutional power.

>>23361830
>A better analogue would be the Titans.
The Titans are still a sub-faction of the larger Federation: Republican Guard, Waffen-SS, Kwantung Army; pick your own historical analogue. And there is one equivalent in Destiny, Phantom Pain.
In SEED, however, there's no distinction between the Blue Cosmos-following forces and the "regular" ones.

>Firstly, I was alluding to the Windams with that line.
I am aware. I was using your quote to refer to the Destroys, as they are (too) easily obliterated by the Destiny and Legend.

>Every single battle Blue Cosmos enters of its own will has at least a dozen of them around.
That was the regular Earth Alliance, of which Blue Cosmos was still a part.

>So you're saying that Blue Cosmos has lost its institutional power.
Well, of course it has. We see Logos being hunted down across the planet during Destiny. That isn't up for debate and I have never said otherwise. Even if we bring up the possibility of Eurasia supporting them, it is still a covert operation.
My argument is whether it can recover it in the aftermath of Moscow and/or if it can remain truly dangerous even as a rogue organization at some point in the near future. Again, getting rid of Colonel Michael is like slicing a head of the hydra (immediate military command), rather than outright killing the monster (the overall anti-Coordinator ideology, which has all the chances of becoming stronger after the Foundation conflict).

>>23361863
>The Titans are still a sub-faction of the larger Federation
I wasn't arguing otherwise, and to begin with this whole little thing is missing the forest for the trees. You said that without the Antiwar faction, mutually assured destruction would have been assured. My point was every Gundam story with similar stakes would have been able to say the same. Furthermore, if we're going to be doing what-ifs like this, are you not going to include Rau who actively worked to make every scenario worse?
>In SEED, however, there's no distinction between the Blue Cosmos-following forces and the "regular" ones.
The meeting scene between Azrael and the rest of the Earth Forces following the NJC leaks seem to show a division of interest. The regular forces want to use the regained nuclear option to ease their energy crisis. They also point out that nuking the PLANTs in the first place was his doing. Unless you were referring to visual/aesthetic distinctions, in which case never mind.
>That was the regular Earth Alliance, of which Blue Cosmos was still a part
Weren't the Alliance siding with ZAFT by Heaven's Base? And how does this really affect the argument? This is still the case in Freedom.
>My argument is whether it can recover it in the aftermath of Moscow
What reason is there to believe it can? We have the incident with Foundation to MAYBE stir a few retards into action, but getting people angry isn't synonymous with getting people ready to throw away their lives. Blue Cosmos is running out of weapons and even a couple thousand folks pitching in isn't going to be enough to realistically get them back on their feet. If people fear another Foundation, it's likely going to make more sense to the majority of give their support to the group that actually stopped them (Compass) rather than the dupes that got nuked. In that case, I don't see how Blue Cosmos could ever hope to meaningfully recover in time before they get beamed into even smaller shreds.

>>23361332
>>23361324 (OP)
Supposedly, there were plans of Fllay being turned into a human bomb

>>23361386
A lot of this is pretty easily gathered from the show proper, /m/ just doesn't like paying attention to their hobby

>>23361386

It is kind of a shame we never got a Cosmic Era Gihrens Greed-like title. Being able to alter some of the events of the Cosmic Era to get a hopeful Rau could be fun.

>>23362412
>CE Gihren's Greed
Zala's Zeal
Azrael's Avarice
Rau's Ragnarok

>>23362443
Durandal's Destiny

>>23362631

>Blue Cosmos, max chaos

Any ending where I get to smash the PLANTS is a good one.

>>23362443
Djibril's Deviance

>>23362637
>Any ending where I get to smash the PLANTS is a good one.
Instruction unclear, accidentally triggered MAD Ending where PLANT got nuked and Earth got GENESIS'd instead

>>23361329
>Fllay
Frey.

>>23361324 (OP)
He wants to wound the world in retribution for his own wounds and doesn't really care if he's massively overdoing it because he's bugfuck crazy.

>>23361561
It's still a lot of people, it just failed to hit a majority of important military targets.

>>23362023
I wonder what would have happened if they went through with that?

>>23362412
I'm more surprised Rau has never been redeemable in SRW. I guess because SEED proper never got adapted much.

>>23368903
Supposedly, Archangel was going to be destroyed. There should be SRW with Zambot that has this as a bad ending with Rau introducing Flay to his old friend Butcher

>>23362631
>>23362639
Izumi's Ignorance

>>23370782
More like Izumi's Idealism (Gone Wrong)