Which MS package would you choose for your military?

G - Busshi, Nobusshi, Fantoma
W - Serpent, Taurus, Virgo II
X - Balient, Daughtress Neo, Crouda
SEED - Gelgoog Menace, Gyan Strom, Murasame Kai
00 - Brave Standard, GN-XIV, Gaga Cannon
AGE - Clanche, Shaldoll Rogue, Danazine
IBO - Shiden, Hekija, Reginlaze
Witch - Dilanza Sol, Zowort Heavy, Heindree Sturm

>00 - Brave Standard, GN-XIV, Gaga Cannon
GN tech trumps everything else on that list.

>>23376914 (OP)
If we're power scaling 00 easily.

But if I'm picking favorites design wise probably the EFSF, Union, ZAFT, or ESF from AGE

>>23376925
Also the GN-XIV looks cool as hell with the full equipment package.

>Dilanza Sol, Zowort Heavy, Heindree Sturm
Not as powerful as 00 units but I like these designs.

>>23376927
EFSF? From UC? Doesn't count since the list only uses Alternative Series.

ESF is from 00. AGE is EFF.

>>23376914 (OP)
00 is the clear winner.
Witch is a close second.
SEED is good but they run on batteries.
AGE and IBO are ok.
G, W and X are weak choices.

>>23376914 (OP)
00 no discussion. GN Drives, even the pseudo ones, would be so useful it would make the military almost unnecessary. But it will stay because the glorious Union.

Armor so thick it shrugs off even bazooka rounds.
Can take multiple weapon shots before being pierced.
Large "Beam Cutters" that slice through battleships
Beam Rifle strong enough it neutralized a shot from the Virsago Chest Break's hyper sonic gun (that took out an entire NUNE fleet in another episode with one shot)

Only problem is that the other X grunts are nowhere near its level.

>>23377060
The Union (plus the AEU and HRL) stopped existing when the ESF was formed.

>beam units vs ibo suits
lol
it probably comes down to rock paper scissors between IBO, G and everyone else just from that alone

>>23377079
I remember beams not working but not the bazooka. Got a time index for the virsago CB shutdown? I wanna make a webm

>>23377126
just get sharper bro

>>23377126
GN beams are different from IBO beams.

>>23377126
IBO nanolaminate has a limit and can be overpowered.

>>23377188
>>23377210
GN particles are almost "magic". I'm pretty sure they will eventually bypass the nanolaminate or chip away at it.

>>23376914 (OP)
Aesthetically speaking either 00(although I would much prefer the original three superpower suits over the GN ones) or WFM

>>23377153
NTA
Episode 38 at the 14 minute mark. Virsago CB charges up a shot but a Crouda's shots are able to disperse the energy (though Virsago also dodges away at the same time).

>>23377299
Thanks for the assist. Unfortunately it's not quite as awesome as the other guy made it sound, it didn't overcome the Virsago's own attack, more like it disrupted the weapon's charge-up before it fired.

Exia is enough to take out Barbatos Lupus Rex.

>>23377809
Exia got buckbroken by a Tieren

>>23377126
G's grunt suits are pretty much normal MSes from what little we see of them

>>23376914 (OP)
ban 00, literally everyone has access to a temporary super robot mode in that era and it's just fucking unfair.

>>23378890
Tieren buttfucks Barbatos.

A-Laws curbstomp Gjallarhorn.

>>23376914 (OP)
>Shalldoll
>Danazine
>No Adele
>No G-EXES
>No G-Bouncer
>No chad Genoace

Get that pirate and vegan shit out of there!

>>23379599
They would be more effective than Gjallarhorn in taking out Tekkadan.

>>23376936
I like their color schemes. Very military.

>>23380869
Assuming their beam weapons work on them

>>23380893
It does. GN particles win over nanolaminate.

>>23377079
based Crouda

>>23380893
Not like they don't have physical weapons

>>23381000
The lances are enhanced by GN particles, which are basically magic.

People forget how overpowered GN particles are.

>>23381317
to be fair, 00 ain't exactly that well known at this point

>nanolaminate can block beams

Can't tank them forever and up to a certain point. Repeated beam strikes burn off layers of nanolaminate. More powerful beams will punch through all layers.

>>23376929
Also very intimidating.

>>23382331
too bad it's just diet qubeley

>>23383248
How is the GN-XIV a Qubeley? Very different design and function.

00 all day, every day.

>G - Busshi, Nobusshi, Fantoma
Shit

>W - Serpent, Taurus, Virgo II
Just ok

X - Balient, Daughtress Neo, Crouda
Crouda is good

SEED - Gelgoog Menace, Gyan Strom, Murasame Kai
Nice but may have low staying power compared to those with reactors

00 - Brave Standard, GN-XIV, Gaga Cannon
Overpowered

AGE - Clanche, Shaldoll Rogue, Danazine
Eh

IBO - Shiden, Hekija, Reginlaze
Nanolaminate is cool and all but it will get burned off quickly by beam weapons of more agile units

Witch - Dilanza Sol, Zowort Heavy, Heindree Sturm
My favorite. Visually appealing. They look like military machines.

>>23376914 (OP)
Assuming they came with the Dolls system, then Wing easily. The most expensive part of a military is the personnel, not the equipment. A machine that you can use indefinitely with no concern to losing a pilot is huge.

>>23386484
Useless against GN tech.

>>23386470
>Virgo II
>Serpent
>Just ok

These wall out everything that isn't AGE or IBO, with ease.

>>23382328
Says fucking who??? I agree that that would make sense and should be a viable way to make it less OP, but from what we see in the show, nanoelaminate armor doesn't even get warm when getting shot by a beam. At best it creates a force that can strip off armor plates that aren't connected very well
>>23376914 (OP)
If productivity is a consideration I'm pretty sure they are able to churn out hundreds of Virgos in just a couple weeks/months to the extent that they weren't crying at all when they lost any. That's some pretty high productivity and since we don't see anyone ever pilot a Virgo it can be assumed you get the doll system with it. Who knows if the electromagnetic shield will be able to work on GN particles, I'd say there is a nonzero chance but it really comes down to the author desu. It can block beams and conventional attacks to a degree. The Virgo is one of the most deadly and useful mass produced machine ever shown in a Gundam series

>>23390625
Funny thing is that WFM actually has a hard counter to automated MS like the Virgo but it isn't in the listing

>>23390651
I literally forgot about the fact this is the Virgo II and not even the basic Virgo. The Virgo II more or less fixes all the problems with the first Virgo and is even more versatile and deadly. The Taurus is a perfectly fine transforming MS by any series' measure and provide in atmosphere flight capabilities to your forces which is huge. The Serpent is basically a scarier Dom, and the Dom is an excellent ground MS for it's maneuverability. They seemed to do as good of a job as youd expect against the Gundams they fought and are also versatile machines with a good load out. You could easily throw mobile doll control systems into the Taurus or Serpent and use them as command units for a legion of Virgos. Likewise you can also use Tauruses as mobile dolls and I'm sure it wouldn't take much to modify a serpent to be a mobile doll as well. In any organized conflict, the Taurus and Serpents will provide excellent flexibility if you need fast moving units while the Virgos will be a plodding wall of death for most things they come up against. In any extended conflict the benefits of the mobile doll system will become even more pronounced as sides begin to lose experienced personnel. Meanwhile an entire campaign can be waged by 10 guys in a basement using the mobile dolls

>>23390625
>>23390655
also this is just about what you would choose, I don't think power levels matter, I do think the prospective wing military looks eh visually though

>>23382328
Most likely nanolaminate would do about as well a hyakushiki or anti beam cloak against the accelerated particle beams of UC and 00(and I think age?), since the plasma formed is just a byproduct of shooting a particle really really fast and that would still eventually punch through even if the heat is dissipated. It should only be truly effective against pure energy beams like those in SEED and of course IBO.

>>23390684
SEED uses superheated particles too, so it’s really just IBO beams.

>>23390655
That thing only disables drones linked via GUND and permet, which the Virgos don't use. Even if you use ECM to prevent a Virgo from communicating with its owner, it just continues following the last orders it was given and can defend itself or attack new threats as necessary based on its orders.

>>23391055
Begur Beu was used to disable drones before GUND was used for war

>it just continues following the last orders it was given and can defend itself or attack new threats as necessary based on its orders.
This is still a huge advantage, without being fed new info any autonomous machines are weaker and can be worked around with tactics.

>>23390837
My understanding is standard SEED beams are primarily energy based(likely entirely plasma, with no particle acceleration involved), hence why the whole akatsuki bullshit works(although it still makes no sense when it comes to interactions with positron beams). While IBO paint armor wouldn't have the reflection effect of the akatsuki, SEED beams would likely react to it similarly to Hasmal's. That said, it's also never been confirmed exactly what standard SEED beams actually are and it's just inferences drawn from basic physics knowledge.
>super heated
The core of UC and 00 beams is super acceleration(especially 00, where the beams are akin to a sand blaster in function), the heat is a secondary byproduct rather than the core function.

>>23391061
>Begur Beu was used to disable drones before GUND was used for war
That's just the generic ECM feature of the non-kinetic pods. It's not like ECM is the end-all and completely stops drones and guided missiles either. Even today we have anti-ECM missiles that home in on the strongest sources of ECM jammers. It's more of a plot thing that the spacians had overwhelming resources and even though counters to ECM existed, the earthians just weren't able to win the war.

>This is still a huge advantage, without being fed new info any autonomous machines are weaker and can be worked around with tactics.
Mobile dolls are not units that need to be constantly fed new orders to work well. 99% of the time in the show, they just let the dolls loose on the battlefield with basic "move and kill" orders without a human commander nearby, so battles didn't devolve into "we need to locate the commander and kill him" routine. Also, not being given new orders is not the same as not having info. The mobile dolls have their own sensors and cameras to see with and take in information by themselves.

>>23391098
>That's just the generic ECM feature of the non-kinetic pods.
Anon, the feature is the one that put a end to the war, we have no idea what the war was like, just that it was effective towards unmanned units.

The Beu we see in the prologue is just using a upgraded version to be used aganist GUND

>Mobile dolls are not units that need to be constantly fed new orders to work well. 99% of the time in the show
The entire point of Virgo II having a network system is because letting them run wild meant they were not capable of advanced tactics beyond what was programmed, anything that fell out of that caused issues, your own example here is proof of how limited their AI is >>23391055

It's the same deal on how the CIS in star wars work, yes Battle Droids can be used without a control ship, however that control ship makes them more effective, it is a disadvantage for them to lose that because their AI alone is incapable of being creative.

>>23390651
>Says fucking who
IBO official setting materials.

GN beam weaponry is the best.

>>23391142
>Anon, the feature is the one that put a end to the war
So they gambled hard on drones and didn't have enough ECM countermeasures. It might even be that their drones didn't have any AI capability and were just remotely controlled by human operators, because drones do not automatically mean AI. As you said, we don't know anything about the war, so I don't know why you're assuming it must have been super amazing anti-drone tech that should also apply against mobile dolls when they don't necessarily operate the same way. The anti-GUND tech couldn't even be used against the final boss of their own story.

>The entire point of Virgo II having a network system is because letting them run wild meant they were not capable of advanced tactics beyond what was programmed, anything that fell out of that caused issues, your own example here is proof of how limited their AI is >>23391055
>it is a disadvantage for them to lose that because their AI alone is incapable of being creative.
The Taurus MD was perfectly capable of tactical movements and that was long before before the Virgo II MD was hooked up to a copy of the Zero system. Virgo MDs seem to have been programmed to move around less often and rely more on their shields. The Zero system gave the MDs the ability to teamwork.

>It's the same deal on how the CIS in star wars work, yes Battle Droids can be used without a control ship, however that control ship makes them more effective
The problem with that in the show is that the MDs were already shown to exceed average human pilots on the first outing, without needing a human commander and not linked to a network. Whenever they need to job, the mobile dolls will move like molasses and require ten seconds to line up a shot on a motionless target. When they're fighting things that can afford to die in large numbers, suddenly they're dogfighting like aces and can perform advanced maneuvers in 3 dimensions that confused their human opponents.

>>23391160
No it fucking doesn't. It wears away like any other sort of coating.

>>23391197
>It might even be that their drones didn't have any AI capability and were just remotely controlled by human operators, because drones do not automatically mean AI
Well we DO know drones in WFM can have AI however, since that's what Darilbalde uses, a more advanced version of whatever was used prior that unlike previous generations is capable of self learning, though you are correct that we don't even know if it would be affected by those same attacks

>The anti-GUND tech couldn't even be used against the final boss of their own story.
Why does that matter?

>The Taurus MD was perfectly capable of tactical movements
Being able to dodge shots isn't particularly advanced AI though, that's exactly something you can pre program as a reaction, it's literally
>get shot at
>dodge
>fire back when behind enemy

Now if you showed them analyzing a situation to engage in a pincer attack entirely by watching the enemy that's actual learning AI, but what you're talking about past that is just how Wing is written, everything is badass until it needs to lose in that show at least on screen, I'm just talking about how the technology is described

>>23391227
>Why does that matter?
I was pointing out that the anti-drone tech was not as strong as you are making it out to be. It had limitations and could not shut down the idealized final evolution of the drone technology in its own story. I just don't think that ECM would do very much to a mobile doll because they were introduced without networking in the first place, so in my eyes it's not a disadvantage when it was just the base level of performance that was already faster to act than humans

>Being able to dodge shots isn't particularly advanced AI though, that's exactly something you can pre program as a reaction
>Now if you showed them analyzing a situation to engage in a pincer attack entirely by watching the enemy that's actual learning AI
I would never say the MDs are learning AI because they don't change over time, but in that scene the Taurus MD knows the capabilities of the Leos, it has a 3D display of battlefield to check their positions and keep track of them, and at the end it performed a flanking maneuver to attack them from behind because it knew the Taurus was fast enough to do it and the Leos wouldn't be able to turn around in time. You're telling me "nah it does that because it's programmed to do that" and it's not creative?

Man, I feel like we're just going to have to disagree.

>>23391288
GUND format is not the final evolution of drone technology, that's not really how it was presented, Darilbalde's AI is the one that's the ideal evolution of AI, GUND is more like a variant of psycommu, mind you for its repurposed design they DID manage to destroy most Gundams they encountered, it really isn't their fault that they had encountered pilots going to a level that was unprecedented.


>You're telling me "nah it does that because it's programmed to do that" and it's not creative?
Yes? That's literally how it's supposed to work, why would you NOT program the capabilities of a Leo and thus the preferred tactic to destroy them?

Give me Nemos, Leos and Windams

>>23391308
>GUND format is not the final evolution of drone technology, that's not really how it was presented
Actually I wasn't thinking of GUND alone, but Quiet Zero and Ericht in the Aerial Rebuild, generating the massive data storm and controlling all the drone MS.

>Yes? That's literally how it's supposed to work, why would you NOT program the capabilities of a Leo and thus the preferred tactic to destroy them?
So how would that be different from the pincer attack strategy?

>>23391327
Because one is analyzing the battle scenario, while the other is taking advantage of data.

It's pretty much EXACTLY how battle droids work, they know what they're fighting and work well if the combat is within that expectation, it is when things are abnormal that they struggle and may even be prone to error, hence why after considering the astro suit as a target they couldn't tell the difference between the one they wanted to kill and the guys they shouldn't.

It KNOWS that it's faster than a Leo but does it know how to handle battle scenarios that are outside of its programming? Considering how shocked people were when the Virgo II was being controlled by a commander I don't think so, they could instantly tell it wasn't how they fight

>>23391352
>Because one is analyzing the battle scenario, while the other is taking advantage of data.
It scanned the battlefield, it saw a suitable scenario to perform a flanking movement, and then it executed that strategy. Knowing a strategy is one thing, knowing how\when to execute it is another. Flanking attacks are not something they programmed the Tauruses to *always* do against Leos, and ANY tactic can't be applied effectively without knowing the battle scenario anyway. That's like saying if a group of Space Leos decides to fight with their back facing the wall of a colony, all they have to do is survive long enough for the Taurus MDs to randomly start crashing into the colony wall at high speed, trying to execute the same flanking maneuver.

>they know what they're fighting and work well if the combat is within that expectation, it is when things are abnormal that they struggle and may even be prone to error
This is incredibly vague, any fighting weapon will be worse off in an incompatible situation, even human beings can and will struggle in unfamiliar/abnormal/unexpected conditions.

>It KNOWS that it's faster than a Leo but does it know how to handle battle scenarios that are outside of its programming?
It doesn't care. It just keeps fighting. It's not expected to be the ultimate weapon to outsmart all enemies, all it ever has to do is be moderately better than the average pilot so Romefeller can steamroll any country that refused to join them, and they never bothered to upgrade it beyond that. The point about the Virgo II being networked was an a just a mild subplot to force the Gundam pilots to learn teamwork.

>>23391055
On the topic of ECM, people forget this but all of the Gundams in Wing have very high levels of ECM built in to achieve the level of stealth they all have. The Deathscythe notably just has the most since that it's whole deal and allows it to literally pop up behind grunts in almost all of its appearances, but this is also a feat that is achieved by the other Gundams as well from time to time because they all have pretty good ECM capabilities. I'm saying all this because none of these capabilities ever interfered with the mobile doll system and it seems to me that inferring with it is incredibly difficult and also fruitless, given how autonomous they are already. The MD system isn't just remotely controlling things, it's also a whole combat AI system that makes intelligent judgement calls in the moment. It working with the epyon system only enabled it to be used on the fly to compliment a lead MS or to enhance its strategic value in a battle
>>23391197
This reminds me that the MD are capable of maneuvers that would pulp a human pilot, another benefit of the system that greatly enhanced the capabilities of the Wing grunts in this theoretical battle for campaign. Even before the Virgos were rolled out the MDs were regarded as impossible to beat by anyone other than the Gundam pilots. A Taurus MD by itself is already a terrifying opponent for any of the other machines in OP's list to fight given how they move, let alone a bunch of them, let alone ones that could theoretically block all incoming attacks

>>23391206
Exactly. Repeated hits from beam weapons burn off nanolaminate layers. Basically just a better version of Hyaku Shiki's anti-beam coating.

>>23391206
Yes it does. In the Completion, Document, and Mechanics & World books.

>>23376914 (OP)
Brave, GN-XIV and Gaga Cannon have the best mobility out of that list. Most powerful weapons too.

GN-enhanced e-carbon >>>>> nanolaminate

>>23391616
Prove it. Show the line that says the paint has no wear and tear and doesn't need to be reapplied after being worn down. Show us were it says the paint magically ignores basic physics and never degrades.

>>23391614
Some people are so adamant on nanolaminate being impervious to beam weapons. It's like they didn't watch the show.

>>23391636
Huh? I never said it has no wear and tear.

>>23391640
>it burns away like any other coating
>nu uh, setting books say otherwise
>ok, show us where
>I never said it doesn't wear down
Bro....

>>23391641
NTA, I think the two of you
have some miscommunication.

The way I understood this anon:
>>23391616
>Yes it does
...wear down from hits

>>23376914 (OP)
So what are the differences in beam weapon tech between those AU shows? I only know 00 uses GN particles, which I assume are more powerful than Minovsky beams.