Thought on Gyan in general? I find it interesting that Gyan capable to face Gundam considering M'Quve isn't really a pilot

>>23379579 (OP)
I never thought much of it, but it's showing in Gcucks actually warmed me up to it

>>23379579 (OP)
Gelgoog is better

>>23379611
Zeonic hands typed this post

>>23379611
I'll always love Zeon having their late production MS fight alongside their early production Zaku Is, like every resource had to be used up.

Aces in Gyans and new pilots in Doms would've been a better strategy

>>23379579 (OP)
Original Gyan looks great with a Gelgoog shield.

>>23379667
The Dom (Rick Dom) should've been the model to become main workhorse.
Its got enough space inside it to do whatever, got beam weapon compatibility.
The amount of thrusters that apparently fit into that frame is truly big. Gelgoogs are not worth the increase in cost when you already have a driveable, proven design

>>23379783
I don't get why a zaku 1 can be upgraded to have an external power source for beam weapons but this never gets considered on a larger scale.

>>23379579 (OP)
Easily my favorite suit in 0079. Maybe top 5 in all of Gundam, at worst top 10. Despite watching so many mech shows I'm not really gay for the mechs themselves, but once in a blue moon something will really speak to me and the Gyan was one of them

>>23380456
carrying a generator backpack weighs you down and end up being too bulky to dogfight newer MS effectively

that and you already had MS in the OYW capable of using beams without needing external generators, so it doesn't really become widespread when it was never really needed in the first place

Dropped from the movies for a reason.

>>23381047
Just like Psycho Gundam Mk-II.

>>23380456
>>23380952
Rick Dom should be able to use beam weapons as soon as the tech is matured.
They already have hardware ports adapted to beam weapons. If the question is the quality of the reactor, they can always be outfitted with stronger reactors like the ones used by gelgoog

Using a proven design and simply improving it would've been a better option. Put more expensive tech in the thing your pilots already know how to pilot, and from which industrial lines you already have scale production going.

Energy weapons tech is not some magical technology. I can understand early war Zakus not being capable, but later models of Dom should easily be able to handle the tech.

So, what was the Gyan's excuse for being able to use beam sabers, but not beam GUNS. The one thing everyone was asking for it to do.

>>23381232
Who's everyone?
The idea behind Gyan at the time was to use it together with already built hordes of Rick Doms supporting them from range, assuming MIP won't figure out how to make a beam rifle.
But then again, it's not like it actually went seriously against Gelgoog, as Zimmad was involved in development of both and afterwards Zeonic helped to make Gyan Eos, which probably would've been mass produced for the royal guard if Zeon won OYW.

Always stood out among the crowd to me. Not surprised it seems to get a good amount of variants.

>>23381123
The problem is that the OYW pretty much compressed WWII's 6 years of tech development into a 1 year period. Zeon MS and MA development basically copies Nazi tank development while the Feds basically copy the US's pacific theater plane development for their MSs.

>>23379579 (OP)
chivalry zaku lol

>>23381232
Because M'Quve is an idiot.

>>23379611
Kinda funny that Gelgoog originally was named Gyan during the production and Gyan was originally named Hakuji

>>23381123
Refitting the Dom/Rick Dom with the Gelgoogs engines should have been a major push I agree, you can excuse the Gelgoog being made due to Zeon's travesty of jealous competition between factories resulting in not properly sharing the better engine until they had a rival suitin the running.

>>23381550
The best Gelgoog is still Gyan.

>>23381633
Oh, yeah, MIP really sucks for not sharing the Z'Gok's amazing engine with Zeonic and Zimmad losers.
For real though, Rick Dom was only adopted because of how cheap it was to produce as an interim upgrade to Zaku II, because its competitor, Zaku II High Mobility Type was too hard to pilot for non aces. Upgrading Rick Dom would just strip it from its main advantage, considering that it wasn't nearly as good in space as it was on the ground, at least before UMP.
That and Gelgoog was almost ready for mass production at the time as well, the only bottleneck was being able to make a beam rifle.

>>23381755
I wonder what a "what if" dream zeon mech where all the different development teams shared their data and cooperated would be capable of.

>>23379579 (OP)
I love the knight aesthetic on mecha so much. Build Fighters has some great variations of it too

>>23381503
Zeon mirrors IJN/IJA aircraft development as well. The Zaku is mostly analogous to the Zero fighter
>>23381755
The Zaku 2 HM is not a real new platform. It has no room to grow and mostly gets performance due to being expensive.
The Rick Dom, while not being maneuverable/agile, still has an amazing amount of horsepower and a clear idea of having space "saved" on the hull for future energy weapons developments.
You really don't need more than a T72 in space.

>>23381755
>considering that it wasn't nearly as good in space as it was on the ground
I wonder if that was another big point of divergence between UC and GQ that's not talked about. Qux's Dom seems to be a model that was developed for space from the get-go, with design decisions like the three legs providing high thrust vectored straight through center mass and claims of matching Gundam's performance despite heavier weight, unlike UC Dom that was developed to hover over terrain first and then retrofitted for space operations by swapping its foot engines.

>>23381941
It also got bigger main thrusters, not just a feet swap.
In any case, the amount of thrusters and rocket engines on the thing is significant in and of itself. The fact that it has so much space on the frame for extra boost means there's really nothing stopping you from utterly ricing up a dom

>>23381954
Full Kerbal

>>23381873
There is one. It's called Gelgoog.
Zeonic provided the base, Zimmad worked on the thrusters and MIP graced Zeon with miniaturized beam tech.
And then it was taken further beyond with Galbaldy and its numerous variations.
The bad blood between Side 3 MS production companies is greatly exaggerated, they collabed all the time and that's even before UMP made it easier.
>>23381925
Um, ackshually, Rick Dom is based on Dom, which is based on Gouf, which is based on Zaku II, meaning it isn't a true new platform either.
HiMo Zaku II might have more in common with Gelgoog than the base Zaku II.

>>23382114
High mobility Zaku is the best the Zaku will get. Its got clear limitations inherent to the frame. Any more upgrades and you can forget any cost savings from upgrading old suits.

The point is that the Rick Dom clearly has room to grow.

>>23382154
>High mobility Zaku is the best the Zaku will get
What about the ACT Zaku?
>magnetic coating
>luna titanium
>beam weapons

>>23382154
>>23382293
HiZack exists you know

>>23382114
Is the Dom really based on the Gouf, and not just that they used a Gouf to test some of the Dom's systems?

>>23382293
If you count Act Zaku, why not count the Hizack or the Zaku 50 then? At what point do you draw the line and say "it's just a name, technologically these things are two different machines that are unrelated to each other"

>>23382435
Nah, Act Zaku is a direct modification of the Zaku 2, whereas Hizack is a completely new suit that takes design cues from the Zaku line.

>>23382686
>Act Zaku is a direct modification of the Zaku II
>looks completely bespoke other than some shared visual cues with markedly different chest, shoulder, elbow, head heat pipe forms entirely plus the later bulged calves, basically scratch redesigned at Pezun and about as much of a Zaku as the Gelgoog and its HiMo "Zaku" R-3S prototype
>Hizack is a completely new suit that takes design cues from the Zaku line
>looks like somebody gutted the base or F2 series' internals to replace with mixed new Feddie+modernized Zeek components and postfacto bodykitted some of the exterior with new chest vents, thrusters, heat pipes, bulged calves, easily could've been made as a rebuild from existing stocks or freshly on much of the same tooling
huh?????

>>23382154
No, I'm pretty sure that HiMo Zaku never intended to be a refit program using the old mobile suits. It was a program to make new high performance mobile suits without the regard to cost and how extensive the rework is.
Hell, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons that it lost to Rick Dom was because you couldn't just reuse Zaku II production lines.
At some point M'Quve even wanted to shut that program down with how antithetical it was to UMP.

>>23382811
You're way too hung up on aesthetics, I can pull all the panels off a ford focus and hammer it into the shape of a F1 car, but its still a ford focus. I can put those panels onto a similarly gutted Lamborghini but its not gonna turn it into a ford focus. Act Zaku is a zaku 2 that has been given a full glow up, but its still a zaku 2 at its core.

>>23382435
>Is the Dom really based on the Gouf, and not just that they used a Gouf to test some of the Dom's systems?
You can argue Ship of Theseus, but there's a bunch of Zimmad prototypes made based on Zaku II and Gouf that eventually became Dom.
You can actually track how Zaku's head got morphed into Dom's, for example.
And final version of Gouf itself recycled tech from one of Zimmad's prototypes, so it was an obvious base for the further development of ground-only mobile suit for them.
>>23383360
I was going to say the same thing, even if you're underselling how big of an improvement Act Zaku is here.
Also, a better UC example on aesthetics would be early Oldsmobile MS, such as RF Zaku, which look like Zaku II, but Geara Dogas inside.

>>23383360
the aesthetics are indeed part of what's leading me here but you can't really tell me that the main line grunt suit that looks and acts like a Zaku after massive iterative improvement is less of a Zaku than a sidereal (pre)production series starting from completely different mechanical concepts with visibly more limited parts sharing that happens to have the Zaku name applied to it and a couple outer casings retained

you could get to the Hizack, obvious engrish for High (Performance) Zaku, by cut and weld and some outright replacements externally with new drop-in internals in what otherwise began as an ordinary Zaku II from any nonspecialized letter series- playing around the other anons' Ship of Theseus reference regarding the Dom's development this is far less of an evolution- but you probably can't start with a base production Zaku frame and gut it in the workshop into an Action Zaku even if some specifications are still shared

>>23383947
For the Act Zaku, you have a ship of Theseus scenario, you've started with a Zaku II base, and then the question is how much can you replace before you draw the line and say "thats no longer a zaku".
In the case of the Hizack, you have a new MS built from the ground up, if you get the shipwrights who built the ship of Theseus to build a new one, it will probably look similar since that's how those guys build ships, but it definitely isn't ever going to be the same ship.

>>23384296
but that's what I'm saying, the original Hizack looks absolutely like it could've been made by major rebuilds of existing Zaku stocks in line with the Ship of Theseus concept as well as built anew, whereas the Act Zaku looks like so little survived of the original MS it was initially patterned on that it couldn't possibly be made with almost any of the same tooling or components, I would say that it's like it has M14 syndrome. Yes, it looks like a Garand, acts like a Garand, yet has a parts commonality of 20%. But then the BM 59 exists, and it IS a Garand, except they cut a detachable magwell in and tacked fresh goodies on.

This applies less if you look at the Advance of Zeta prototype & production Hizack- much more blocky and Feddie-ized- but you could easily have the OG Zeta & alternate AoZ models coexist by saying the former is rebuilt stock while the latter is all new chassis, both using composite armor & all or most of the same internals otherwise to meet the same final performance specifications primarily designated Hi(gh Performance)-Zaku, with some as of yet unwritten miscellaneous detailed ordnance codes to differentiate the two.

With the 'space T-72 reference' above, it's like if you were to say that if the Zaku I is a T-44 or 54, and the Zaku II is a T-55, then the Hizack would be a T-62 while the Action Zaku is more like a T-64 or some miscellaneous Objekt prototype, yes they rhyme in many of the same ways and both are elaborations on the same starting concept going in the same direction, but one is visibly evolutionary and the other is revolutionary.

It doesn't make as much sense to me the other way around, even considering the chronology of development, but maybe I'm just headcanoning too hard. The parts that especially irk me are the Act Zaku's "field motors" blurb and its having a slightly stronger generator spec of 1440 kws versus 1428 in OYW versus postwar, it feels far more like the Zaku in name only.

>>23382154
>High mobility Zaku is the best the Zaku will get.
Okay, hear me out, what if we give the HiMo Zaku a Psycho Zaku backpack WITHOUT the quadruple amputation?

>>23384461
Fuck I hate Thunderbolt.

>>23384426
>The parts that especially irk me are the Act Zaku's "field motors" blurb and its having a slightly stronger generator spec of 1440 kws versus 1428 in OYW versus postwar, it feels far more like the Zaku in name only.
Considering that we got an example of Gelgoog Uma Lightning Custom, I'd say that field motors modification doesn't need an extensive rework of the mobile suit. Generator swaps are a norm for the new versions of the same mobile suit in general.
The point is, even though the armor is different, underneath it, Act Zaku looks fairly typical of Zaku II.

>>23384472
Mind elaborating? Thunderbolt is fucking great

>>23384426
I think we need to rely on the word of god in this scenario, Act Zaku's design fluctuates a lot depending on the artist and medium its in, and can look like a complete offshoot or just an edgier Zaku 2.

>>23379783
Rick Doms are not capable of using beam weapons. The beam weapons you do see them using have their own reactors attached to them and was an expensive stopgap measure to give Zeon MS at least some kind of beam capability. The Gelgoog was absolutely necessary to stand up to the GM especially as the federation was beginning to produce ace pilots of their own. If Zeon wanted any hope in a long term war where MS combat was increasingly taking center stage, they most certainly needed the Gelgoog. It's just a shame it took so long to produce

>>23384518
NTA but Thunderbolt would have been perfect if it was just "what if the OYW never ended and kept going, aren't the nightmares of war terrible?" instead of "what if the OYW didn't end but also who fucking cares lmao check out these goofy space Buddhist terrorists or whatever lol"

>>23384528
he's implying something like the rick dom being fat enough to accommodate the reactor from the slimmer act zaku or the similar-sized Gelgoog so he thinks they should have kept the rick dom body shell and just put in a better reactor instead of designing the entirely new act zaku and gelgoog

>>23384561
Most of those buddhist were Zeon remanents led by a feddie cyber newtype, don't be reductionist. Do you hate War in the Pocket or Stardust Memory?

>>23384583
TB Gyan is good but TB Gelgoog is better

>>23384648
Specially the feddie one

>>23384578
I see, the issue with that though is that it doesn't necessarily matter if you have the space to crank the reactor into the MS, it's how you pipe the power from the power plant through the MS. Those gas cables on the Zaku II are there because they couldn't figure out an effecient way conduct that much power through the Zaku II, a problem that would continue to exist on alot of Zeon style MS going forward(to a much MUCH lesser degree). Sticking a stronger power plant in the Dom may not have been that simple, and thus the need for MS like the Gelgoog or the theoretical Galbaldy Beta

>>23384583
NTA but aside from mech designs and music I despiste Stardust Memory.
Federation incompetent as fuck, all Japan...I mean Zeonic fanwank, even Nukeing America...I mean the Federation in retaliation to losing a war they started 3 years after the fact.
Feddies commit no war crimes compared to the massive ones Zeeks do in every show that everyone ignores because muh space taxes Feddies bad.

>>23384509
I don't know. I think the part that bugs me most is the restructured chest, it's like a blocky Gouf, but then that was ultimately Zaku-derived too and pretty immediately so. The Hizack just screams F2 rebuild with chest vents added, which was probably an intentional retcon visual echo.

I'll concede wholly on the Act Zaku being closer than I give it credit for but I'll still die on the hill of the Hizack being as much rebuild as bespoke. I think it's cooler that way, to have ordinary surplus Zaku IIs thoroughly gutted after the fact to be capable of keeping up with late OYW suits and postwar requirements. It's exactly what the cheapskates in the Fed procurement apparatus would do and has echoes of Soviet and post-Soviet surplus getting filled out with third party western electronics.

>>23384524
that's true, the Origin 3D model is less disparate relative to its continuity's Zaku II than the original lines in particular

>>23384528
>>23384670
Rick Dom already has the hardware to accommodate beam weapons, which is what the port on the chest is for.
Maybe you'd need a form of tubing apparatus to make sure the weapon got the juice required, but this is part of the genius of the design.

The logic of making an enormously expensive late war design in low numbers is what I'm firmly against, when you already have an adaptable frame that is combat-proven and easy to pilot.

>>23384875
I think the best argument against Hizack being refitted OYW Zakus is that they use titanium alloy for the construction, rather than the Zaku's high tensile steel.

>>23385488
>Rick Dom already has the hardware to accommodate beam weapons, which is what the port on the chest is for.
I feel like this is obsolete lore. Like, at first it was intended for that but later it was renovated into the beam scattering emitter instead, so nowhere in the animation has it ever been actually used to connect to a beam weapon, and there isn't even any beam weapon designed and built that can connect to the Dom's chest to receive power. Not even the Rick Dom's one special beam weapon, the rare beam bazooka, connects to the chest.

Also gonna go on a tangent here, the beam bazooka is also a poorly powered beam weapon, not only does the beam bazooka rely on a small generator built into the weapon, it also still requires additional energy from the suit to work via the energy plug in the hand. IIRC:
>beam bazooka can't be fired by itself since it doesn't have enough power from the built-in reactor
>beam bazooka can't work with the standard Zaku F-type since those units top out at less than 1000 kW (Doms have just under 1300 kW reactor output)
>beam bazooka is not really worth using with Gelgoog because Gelgoogs already have proper beam rifles that fire more frequently and is smaller and easier to handle while still retaining one-hit-kill power

All of that means the Rick Dom beam bazooka was an early weapon that was really unwieldy, not really practical, and the extra firepower compared to a regular beam rifle didn't amount to much, the only thing it'd be useful for was shooting at ships or fortresses. The Feds did have plenty of the former but not much of the latter for Rick Doms to shoot at. Both Zeon and Fed just give up on the beam bazooka idea so hard that beam bazookas\launchers don't reappear until a couple of years later when MS start to have beefier generators with power to spare, and still don't become super common (available for grunts) until decades later.

>>23385497
Feels like a non-argument in many ways. The issue is that power plants and hardware to use energy weapons in no way is bespoke or unique to single models, but rather a form of technology which, when adequately understood and mass produced, would ensure you could use the weapons you want and so on.

The idea that it's better to make an entirely new suit instead of adapting the thousands and thousands of extant suits to use the new tech you finally mastered makes no sense.

The existence of the beam scattering gun means that measures were taken to incorporate beam weaponry into the Dom platform. It should've been the GM of Zeon

>>23381066
Funny, Gyan is my favorite 0079 MS and Psycho MK II is my favorite Zeta MS.

>>23384661
It’s a heinous crime that they killed the Thunderbolt HG’s

>>23385497
Man I need to play 0081 but I can't seem to find the ISO anywhere.

>>23385491
that is true, but if we assume the titanium composite is only built in where it counts on the most obviously new components- chest, shoulder armor and shields, backpack, vambraces, calves- and elsewhere has been left in cheaper preexisting high-tensile steel or legacy GM titanium, and/or is all-composite on the AoZ scratch builds while being left piecemeal on rebuilds, it can still be reconciled.

do not underestimate the power of speculative fill-in gymnastics nor the psychosis of schizophrenic refits anon. If obsolescent early Cold War tubs can get entire modern MBT turrets kludged on, or unrecognizable external composite screens that look like them on top of the original turret and hull, or enough ERA to blow up half the neighborhood, then we can easily do the same with a Zaku II.

>>23385497
nta, I don't think I've ever seen material suggesting the chest port as a plug-and-play system for external beam weaponry, but I'll offer more reconciliating speculation: the Rick Dom's chest port is capable of acting as a standalone beam scattering emitter as it is depicted in various material, but theoretically with the necessary weaponry and minor additional equipment plugged to the port- a very compact Minovsky APU or a focusing element or both?- also act as a Minovsky particle compressor to adequately supply beam weaponry.

Speculatively, a derivative of the Gelgoog beam rifle or a Pezun beam gun of the Act Zaku sort with external cabling strung between gun and chest to double up on power ports between this and the hands, just like the 'zook (possibly) using its generator plus the Rick Dom's hand port. As an aside, wiki blurb insists the beamzook operates fine on its generator alone and instead had a primary flaw of generator explosions, but conflicting sources exist and I'll disregard that in this moment, it don't matter.

In practice these didn't really reach the front lines in numbers, and with the Rick Dom's focus on bringing heavy firepower to bear the integral generator Musai main battery derived Beam Bazooka intended as a substitute solution became the mainline beam weapon for the platform. I have no source, not even whatever that anon is going on for the chest port allegedly supporting other beam weapons in the first place, but it's a cool idea and sounds like exactly the kind of thing somebody would bullshit into existence for a side story.

>>23384583
I hate every part of Stardust Memory that isn't the music or mech combat animation.

>>23386323
>nta, I don't think I've ever seen material suggesting the chest port as a plug-and-play system for external beam weaponry, but I'll offer more reconciliating speculation: the Rick Dom's chest port is capable of acting as a standalone beam scattering emitter as it is depicted in various material, but theoretically with the necessary weaponry and minor additional equipment plugged to the port- a very compact Minovsky APU or a focusing element or both?- also act as a Minovsky particle compressor to adequately supply beam weaponry.
I think that comes from the MSG novelization where the Rick Dom was the final Zeon space unit, none of the Monster of the Week suits exist, and Armuro dies and Char joins the White Base crew

>>23386269
Fair enough, it's something you can stretch to being believable. I still think it's a very fitting thing for feddies to decommission any captured OYW stockpiles and put their best and brightest into designing the first generation of post war MS, only to wind right back with a Zaku.

>>23386517
it's even more fitting to decommission all of those stocks, design half a dozen successor mobile suit lines you dead end at the finish line after getting lots of scam MIC contracting money out of them of which the main surviving one is building a better Zaku with ex-Zeek help

only to then have some corrupt pencil pusher decide to recommission everything that was decommissioned and stuff them to bursting with everything that's supposed to go in the new better Zaku because he pushes a party line that this will totally save the EFF a dime but it actually ends up costing as much or more per unit while he has stock in the specific Anaheim subsidiary behind rebuilding the old surplus Zaku Cs and Fs and F2s to the Hi-Zack Mark B standard and maybe has one clandestine foot in a Titans black budget project meant for funding "Neo-Zeon" falseflag attacks for which the Better Zaku that can pass for a OYW Zaku is necessary (just why do you think the Titans' Hizacks are in standard Zaku Green while the EFF is in Titans colors?)

>>23386479
Checked but couldn't find anything about the Dom's chest port. In fact, the description says the beam bazooka is driven by a (particle?) accelerator built into the Rick Dom's arm, which implies it doesn't need any extra connections such as a chest port. The novel Rick Dom doesn't have any other weapons besides a beam saber.

>Char joins the White Base crew
That's a Gihren's Greed scenario. The MSG novels are somewhat different, they have Char's entire newtype corps team up with the White Base, pretending to have captured White Base as a prize and are escorting it into the heart of Side 3, so they can all get close to Gihren and assassinate him.

>>23386548
>old surplus Zaku
That implies that it's a thing, but actually only a few of them survived the war and even fewer of them fell in hands of EFF as most were in hands of usually hostile remnants.
Speaking of surplus, Federation did turn nearly all of their GMs into GM II and then reused them for GM IIIs, yeah.
Hizack is Federation's answer to the question of what is the cheapest new mobile suit they can make that is still viable. It should be cheaper to make than Act Zaku, Galbaldy Beta and GM II, while also being easier to pilot and containing as many new improvements in internal design as the three mobile suits mentioned are ~5 years old at the core (even if they are better in some other ways, like being able to use more than one beam weapon at a time, kek).

>>23387001
>Hizack is Federation's answer to the question of what is the cheapest new mobile suit they can make that is still viable.

You should reword your answer as:

"What is the cheapest mobile suit we can make that can dominate Gelgoogs and Zeon remnants?"

>>23387018
No, I shouldn't, because it can't DOMINATE Googs, exactly.
What it can do is to help bolster the numbers of regular mobile suits that were spread so thin that the money eating Titans were forced to lend EFF their Quels at some point.
In certain ways, Hizacks were just a stop gap, until the arrival of the next generation of MS, not unlike Rick Doms.

After the random massacre in Tokyo, a Gyan and an Exia were offered at the scene. I was intrigued to see that there was someone out there who had a deep understanding of the Gundam story.

>>23386548
As much as the totally zeon remnants atrocities guys green works I really do like the blue better for the Hizack. If I had my way zeta would've been a complete shirt swap with AEUG sticking with monoeye designs from sympathetic ex zeon suppliers and the titans having the blocky GM aesthetic the whole way through. Essentially I just want to shout at the marasai to get it's shit together.

>>23386814
Its a complete head anon thing, but it would be cool having Doms operate in heavy weapons teams with a gunner Dom operating a large beam cannon and a "loader" Dom diverting his suits power to the gun itself. Probably nigh useless in high mobility conflicts but still cool.

>>23386814
The thing with the port is that it's evidence of hardware leading energy from the reactor core to the outside, hence an early attempt to facilitate usable later developments in energy weaponry.

The Beam scattering gun is almost entirely useless by itself- It doesn't merit design space on its own.
But viewed as an attempt at making future upgrades more easily worked into the design, and its inclusion makes sense.
Whether this is by redesigning the chest with more tubing or something else, one can easily get the image that the future Dom would be energy weapons viable.
>>23387001
>as the three mobile suits mentioned are ~5 years old at the core
I wish the timelines were more realistic. Mobile suits (especially matured, post-war suits) should be serving for 20+ years *minimum*, with continuous upgrade work in software and hardware enabling them to still compete.
The F-16 and Su27 are from the 70s and still relevant in wars today.

>>23387699
>I wish the timelines were more realistic. Mobile suits (especially matured, post-war suits) should be serving for 20+ years *minimum*, with continuous upgrade work in software and hardware enabling them to still compete.
At least some of them did serve for ~20-40 years. The point was that none of them were really post-war and that in few years during Zeta the second generation of mobile suits would be introduced with heavy MS development during the Gryps and Neo Zeon wars. Then everything cooled off until around UC0110s when it all became about miniaturization.

>>23387699
>>23387795
Its either everything moves super fast like Gundam, or things last literally hundreds of years like Battletech.

>>23387699
>I wish the timelines were more realistic. Mobile suits (especially matured, post-war suits) should be serving for 20+ years *minimum*, with continuous upgrade work in software and hardware enabling them to still compete.
>The F-16 and Su27 are from the 70s and still relevant in wars tod
Agreed. The OYW tech development makes a lot more sense spaced out over like 5 years at a minimum, maybe even a decade.

>>23384866
That's one of the reasons I like Thunderbolt, the feddies also commit their own warcrimes

>>23389123
Never happened and they deserved it.

>>23379611
I do not care for googs. They look bland and unfinished compared to Zakus.

>>23379579 (OP)
I love it.

Two things

1 M'quve would have won if Amuro weren't the main character

2 It's pure form over function. Like the Gelgoog is better, but the Gyan looks cooler.

In Ghiren's Greed I think you can make it your main next gen mass production suit.

>>23379579 (OP)
hate it, its always been an over rated MoTW

>>23389238
Consider >>23384661

>>23389123
I liked in Victory when Uso tried to blow up the Zanscare main colony and kill all the civilians living there.

>>23389276
>In Ghiren's Greed I think you can make it your main next gen mass production suit.
you can, the final Gyan Krieger is even a bit better than the Gelgoog Jaeger although all of the intervening models are a bit worse and obviously more melee biased

I'm going to come in with a fringe opinion again and say that neither the Gyan nor Gelgoog were worthy to be the next generation mainline MS, since the former was an exceptionally specialized fast close attack platform with gimmick equipment, retrocontinuitively a Zudah successor, the latter was a mass production zeek budget Gundam minus Luna Titanium, and both were difficult to pilot professional soldier-worthy units that needed to be piloted by aces and blooded troops to be worth a shit over the Zaku any old conscriptee could learn and couldn't be expected to entirely replace them on the battleline, only to fill out fully reequipped elite units and to give capable NCOs some extra hitting power in a composite unit leading Zakus

instead, both should be batch produced and pursued down their full development line while innovations are ripped out and plugged into a better Zaku like the FZ or predecessors to the much later Zaku III, before ultimately being hybridized into the Galbaldy series for the best most balanced mass production shock attack MS unit. Honorable mention to the Xeku which was supposed to leapfrog all of the above as a visibly Zaku-Dom inspired hybrid heavy grunt. Can't help but wonder what it looked like while the OYW was still going on and development at Pezun was still in the early stretches.

>>23389286
The reason why that Gelgoog looks so good is the return of the external cables on the side of the face

>>23389405
I don't mind cables being intergrated in head, especially when you can see where they are supposed to be inside, so the silhouette of the head is similar.
You could have external cables that wouldn't do the head any favors. Looking at you, GELGOOG Menace.

>>23389405
Gelgoog has cables that have been covered in armor plates, you can still tell they're there

>>23379579 (OP)
needed a better ranged weapon the the needle shield

>>23389399
IIRC the Xeku is a new Fed design, just based on Zeon data, so it didn't really exist that far back. I think the closest OYW equivalent would be the Dom Barrage. Both are heavy units yet retain high mobility with addon booster, and carry heavy belt-fed guns for continuous firepower.

Anyone interested in the Ghoul from the same the same story as the Dom Barrage? It's as close to a OYW Gyan-concept successor as we'll get (that isn't the R-Jarja). It carries twin shields equipped with rockets and two beam spike emitters on each shield.

>>23389974
>It's as close to a OYW Gyan-concept successor as we'll get (that isn't the R-Jarja).
Or Gyan Kai, or Gaz-L/Gaz-R, or Galluss-S.
Yes, Axis made THREE Gyan successors and there's a version of their other close combat MS that uses Gyan concept as well.
As for Ghoul, I'm not feeling it. Twin Beam Emitter shields look like an awful close combat weapon.
>small reach
>mounted on wrists
>second beam would make it harder to use effectively if you'd take it in hand
Like what the fuck? A mobile suit that sucks in both close and ranged combat, while looking like a twink Dom with an ugly mug? I'd stick with Efreet, thanks.

>>23389974
I don't know, if the wiki history is to be considered accurate some kind of nominal X Series was already underway at Pezun to then be looted and redesigned into the Xeku- something else complete enough to be subject to redesign existed in the first place. There's a possible unexplored Galbaldy Alpha-to-Beta dichotomy going on here.

>>23390609
It could also be based on Marasai.

>>23390654
>look inside original prototype X Series, expect fatfuck evolutionary Dom-Dwadge variation
>it's just the more or less unmodified base model Marasai
>Developed Into successors coincidentally start getting Xeku energy by coloration or heavier equipment or deliberate hybridized-looking rebuild
this makes too much sense, bloating an existing suit to near unrecognizability by both deliberate gavage and maybe scope creep is exactly how the Xeku Zwei was made from the Xeku Eins

>>23391584
I mean, I'm pretty sure that Xeku Eins got movable frame and uses Gundarium.
Whatever Pezun engineers originally cooked, would have to be heavily redesigned or rebased on a newer MS and since Anaheim was seemingly involved Marasai is an obvious choice.

>>23385719
it's on romsfun.

>>23391809
Latest retcons belittle movable frame to the point of it being possible to retrofit to older MS, which is absurd to me but whatever, like at that point you're just building a new MS that looks like the old one.

The Pale Rider was captured by Zeon forces and later converted from semi-monocoque to movable frame with Anaheim's help.

Movable frame origin has also been backdated to the Alex NT-1 limbs instead of the GM Quel forearms

>>23392475
I believe that this retcon isn't new, looking at Gaz-L/Gaz-R, but yeah, it's absurd.
BTW, where is this Pale Rider example came from?

>>23393200
Pale Rider Dullahan II from a magazine. It's an absolute baller in GBO2

>>23393206
Wait, DII was captured by Zeon forces and got movable frame?
I mean, it would make sense if it had at least partial movable frame like Quel.

>>23393276
>>23393206
>>23393200
DII wasn't captured by Zeon and modified with movable frame. >>23392475 is talking about the Pale Rider from Missing Link that was customized into the Todesritter, which included movable frame.

https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/AMX-018%EF%BC%BBHADES%EF%BC%BD_Todesritter

mass-production gyan would've been based. those zabi fuckers deserved to lose for failing to recognize the genius of lord M'quve.

>>23379579 (OP)
Original is the best one.

>>23387028
>because it can't DOMINATE Googs, exactly
Hizacks wreck Gelgoogs. Hizack is 7 years newer. Don't be a Goog fanboy.

>>23401462
do we have proof of this on screen

>>23401691
In Zeta, the mobile suit technicians working on an old Gelgoog make fun of it and call it an antique.

>>23401714
unnamed grunts are highly unreliable narrators for this purpose but in absence of better evidence I agree
this does mean that we need to chalk up the Gelgoog's performance against the ZZ crew as gross incompetence on their part however

>>23401717
Ok. I agree that fighting on the ground gives the Gelgoog a chance. With the right weapons and right Terrain, then a Gelgoog can still stand a chance to inflict harm. As long the enemies can fly. Earth's gravity is the great equalizer.

The problem is using a Gelgoog in space. Fighting Zeta era suits, It will struggle in space environments and inside Colonies. It's simply not maneuverable enough. Gelgoog was top of the line in 0079, and still solid in 0083. But that's as far as you can push it. We saw Gelgoogs struggling to fight some newer GMs in 0083 Stardust memory. GM II (which was an upgraded GM) couldn't fight newer Zeta suits. The pilots complained it wasn't agile enough and targeting computer was too slow.

If you want to use Gelgoog in Zeta era, then you at least need Refined Gelgoog. Upgraded by Neo Zeon to extend the life of the old Gelgoog.

UC technology advances so quickly. I'm actually a fan of using older technology and giving it upgrades. I'm honestly surprised we don't see more "refined" versions of older suits. We need more refined Zeta Gundam, more refined Gundam Mark 2, etc. It's much cheaper than mass producing brand new suits every 2 years. Axis had the right idea in that regard.

>>23401462
The gelgoog is worse on the stats I can find than the hizack, but its not a laughably big difference, seems to be around 20% higher. Then you have the Gelgoog Jager with its paradoxically high acceleration that BTFOs even CCA ace units somehow despite being a OYW mech with some tuning. That has to be an error.

>>23401767
>>23402269
The Hizack was made around late 0083/early 0084. It's an older suit by the time of Zeta. If you want a real comparison with Zeta era, then compare the Gelgoog to the Marasai or Nemo.

>>23401767
the entire line of refined MS when it comes to the feds are still newly manufactured MS like Re-GZ or ReZEL. They're just based off data from older higher performance MS

>>23402331
Why isn't there anything like Re-Nemo or Re-Gundam Mark II or Re-Gp02 or Re-Dendrobium?

>>23402331
For the feds it was a case of "we have this ace suit but we don't want to break the bank, can we trim the fat and keep what makes it good within a reasonable price range" while for axis zeon it was "oh fuck we don't have the manufacturing capabilities to make new suits for everyone, can we bring our leftover OYW suits up to modern spec?"

>>23402361
Depends on the situation and point in time.

Nobody has ever bothered to rebuild a Nemo because it was kinda so-so in the first place and the Feds already have no shortage of GM III and Jegan just a few years later. Jegan supposedly has Nemo lineage anyway.

Mark II and GP02A were nice for their time but they're either highly niche and/or surpassed already. GP02A has so few uses and stigma attached to it that they haven't really bothered to build any more nuke-capable delivery MS afterward. Mark II was the demonstrator for movable frame but never really had much else going for it other than the Gundam name, there isn't anything it does that couldn't be done by another MS.

>Re-Dendrobium?
Well.. there's this cursed thing, pic related.

>>23402408
Wtf? That looks like a giant toy. And it doesn't have an I-field generator it seems.

Why not just give the Gyan a beam cannon as a ranged weapon and have it wield heat hawks or even heat rods for melee and call it a day.

Was it really that difficult.