Thread 23396398

the normalization of cgi in anime has really been a disaster. even a "high quality" movie looks like shit. can the japs please just learn how to draw again? or is it a forgotten talent in 2025

>>23396398 (OP)
>or is it a forgotten talent in 2025
Correct. We have had this discussion numerous times already.

https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2023/09/30/systemic-lack-of-training-convenient-technological-advances-and-the-destruction-of-technique-knowledge-in-the-anime-industry/
>Specialized animation is by definition more susceptible to fade away from that pool of shared knowledge, and given its massive decline, few cases have been felt as strongly as this one. Although there are clearly other factors at play here, like mecha anime becoming less prevalent for starters, it’s once again that combination of lacking mentorship and a convenient alternative [ie. 3DCG] that has led to a loss of traditional technique.
>As Gundam’s series producer Naohiro Ogata has noted multiple times, especially when he has to justify his studio’s decision to opt for 3D mechs, it’s a shortage of trained in-betweeners that gets in the way of more traditional robot productions. While enough specialized veterans have stuck around and could be in leading roles, all these years opting for the less cumbersome [...] CG alternative means that it has become near-impossible to build an entire team to support such a production. With barely any in-betweeners acquainted with the specificities of 2D mecha animation, often demanding to juggle both perfect volumetry and natural movement, you either sacrifice quality or opt for a 3D alternative

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-12-22/sunrise-producer-were-the-only-studio-that-can-make-hand-drawn-robot-anime/.141134

>>23396398 (OP)
I used to think so too until Eva movies and Hathaway proved there was genuine potential there. Then GQuX came and matched the 90s OVA animation quality, shit felt surreal.
However going back from 10/10 animation to what could at best be 7/10 in Hathaway is gonna be jarring.

>>23396436
>to what could at best be 7/10 in Hathaway
You do understand that the trailer is in no way representative as to how the final product is going to look, correct?

>>23396439
Sure, but if the first movie is any indication it's not going to be on par with GQuX. It COULD be, in theory, but I really doubt it. And if the stuff in the trailer is looking like this I can only suspect it's all still WIP, and they really don't have that much time left...

>>23396436
>I used to think so too until Eva movies and Hathaway proved there was genuine potential there. Then GQuX came and matched the 90s OVA animation quality, shit felt surreal
How does it feel like to be fucking blind?
https://youtu.be/vLOCl4V7OpY?si=PZGlM7uOdvn1wGs2

>>23396445
>it's not going to be on par with GQuX. It COULD be, in theory, but I really doubt it.
You are being hysterical. TV and movie production are two different beasts. You can't possibly compare the workflows.

>>23396449
Are you being illiterate? I wouldn't have said it was "potential" if it reached the peak. There's stuff like that, but there's also stuff like start of movie 3 which was the single best piece CG animation in anime at the time.
>>23396452
Do you seriously think your post is coherent? What point are you even trying to make here? All I'm saying is that it's unlikely Hathaway 2 is going to be on the same level of animation quality as GQuX precisely because of these reasons. It's made by different people in a different situation and with different goals. YES it's a different beast, are you having a stroke?

We're done here, if you people can't behave I'm not going to play kindergarten teacher with you.

>>23396461
>All I'm saying is that it's unlikely Hathaway 2 is going to be on the same level of animation quality as GQuX precisely because of these reasons
And this is a ridiculous idea to even contemplate. Sunrise has Studio 1 and DID (their CGI shop) working on it. It's a flagship title, to be premiered on theatres. You have to be delusional to think its actual release is going to look as obviously incomplete as what was shown on the trailer.
And you using GQuX as a counterexample will not help your argument in this board.

>We're done here, if you people can't behave I'm not going to play kindergarten teacher with you.
Fuck off and good riddance, then.

>>23396398 (OP)
Hopefully China can save the anime industry. I don't think the answer is India, that's for damn sure.

CGI anime can look amazing, but it requires a high budget, a lot of care, and people with skills+experience. That's not what we get.

>>23396449
At least watch the movie before you try to nitpick a scene.

Its the same story that has been told for over a century at this point: If you want good content then it is going to cost money.

Look at riot with Arcane, that show is going to be a hit for decades and it set a lot of standards for animation but it will always going to be a financial miss for them.

at this point the only way out is likely to go through and hope that AI assistance will bring CGI animation costs down and quality up to reach 90s OVA Standards. In 5-10 years it will probably be possible to train AI on a functional 3d model and then have it animate in the old 1990s style.

>>23396848
>Chinks
>Saving anything
Fuck off Chinkshills

>>23396436
Marza studio exist. They just need to go back to Jap exclusive content

>>23396848
I just found out about Ravages of Time, 3BP, and Feng Shen Ji cutting Edge 3DCG so Fuck off you Chink cockscuking piece of shit

>>23396926
>arcane
>AI
Zoomers are a blight.

>>23396948
Say whatever you want but you can't really deny the acclaim that it received fot its high quality animation. And you can frown at AI all you want but we all have seen how fast new technologies progress now. What we are currently seeing AI produce in 2025 is like seeing super mario bros in the mid 80s.

>>23396398 (OP)
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-12-22/sunrise-producer-were-the-only-studio-that-can-make-hand-drawn-robot-anime/.141134
"The number of animators who can draw mecha is dwindling, especially among in-betweeners. There are not many young people who learn how to draw mecha, and the veterans are aging to the point where drawing an intensive amount by themselves could lead to health problems. This limits what many studios can do, including Sunrise."

>>23396398 (OP)
Read manga, you troglodyte.

>>23396948
Stop being such a whiny bitch.

3D only /m/ is somewhat like raytraced lighting; stumble out the gate but once everyone settles in fully it will be superior. The hard part is creating emulations for various effects that 2D would normally have by default, since they come from artists intentionally drawing something inaccurately, but it will happen eventually. Go all in on 3D and we will reach that point quicker.

>>23396449
eva was too avant garde for my taste.
on my good days i'd call it a very personal movie for anno, he definitely didn't make it for mass consumption
on my bad days i'd say it's just some meaningless visual vomit

>>23396398 (OP)
>2025
>somehow can't draw pic related anymore.

Lmao. Sounds like Sunrise is just being lazy.

>>23397117
*shin eva

It wouldn't be so bad if TV anime didn't have so many time/budget constraints so they could actually make the CG look good.

Anyone talking about it being mostly a budget problem is being disingenuous. Other high profile, high revenue IPs like Fist of the North Star and Dragon Ball still look like total shit when done with 3DCG and, for some reason, they -all- look like they're animated like Star Fox SNES at 20FPS. This is a talent problem. Directors either don't give a shit or the animators just aren't good enough.

>>23397362
>Other high profile, high revenue IPs like Fist of the North Star and Dragon Ball still look like total shit when done with 3DCG
Just because they rake in lots of money, doesn't mean they aren't cheaply made as well in order to maximize profits.

>>23397119
Not lazy, greedy. They want to churn shit out faster and at a lower cost, traditional animation is too expensive and slow to make.

>>23397371
>They want to churn shit out faster
>Still took them 5 years to release a trailer for Hathaway 2
Pick one

>>23397362
Toei is famously known for not giving a shit and only allocating shoe string budgets to shonen adaptations, and "MANime" like Berserk and FotNS have been selling merch regardless so they don't need anime adaptations to drive the marketing, so the production committees get the cheapest studios available for them for muh profits. In comparison, moeshit and haremshit needs good looking characters in well animated anime to attract customers to the merch, which has to be sold within a few months of the anime, before they get forgotten.

>>23397362
Using Super as an example of 'adapting manga that's famous around the world' is disingenuous

>>23397507
The second part of the meme is wrong too, what fucking harem anime are you watching that are well animated beyond the fan service scenes?

>>23396848
Chinese animation is just jangling keys for people with poor attention spans.

>>23397381
It could've taken them 10-15 years if the movie was done entirely by hand.

>>23397381
It would've taken them 10-15 years if the movie was done entirely by hand.

>>23396398 (OP)
https://youtu.be/WsMk-yAQtoQ?si=d7RR7w4fleeN5001
we couldve had this... a single fan animation brings more soul to hathaway than both movies so far

>>23397100
>>23397117
>>23397362
I know it's a retards gathering thread but where do these people immigrate from?

>>23396926
No art labor-saving technology has made things actually cheaper or better yet, what makes you think the slop machine will?

>>23396398 (OP)
It's not that I have an automatic predisposition against CGI but I can't help but feel like it's only gotten WORSE instead of better. I do find it interesting to look back in the early 00s. Studios like Gonzo were using a lot of CGI and while I would hardly say it's aged gracefully there's something about the stuff then that comes off as far less lazy.

>>23396398 (OP)
Funny how they managed to do it with CGI Tachikomas in the early 00s, then there is a rift of a decade and a half where almost all CG mecha (or CG in anime in general) was shit, and it's only now that we are kinda catching up to how fluid and coherent with the 2D art they were back in two thousand fucking two.

>>23397941
>>23397942
It's not s matter of how much time has passed.

>>23396398 (OP)
Really, this is the one thing in modern anime I really can't stand a lot of the time.

Many anime directors seem to see no issue with

3d models that are shaded differently from everything else around them.

3d models moving in low framerates - but not specifically chosen frames, like you'd see in 2d animation, with focus on impact. They seem to do a standard fluid motion and then just go with a low framerate.

And the worst part is that aside from some specially horrible cases it doesn't seem to bother Japanese audiences, so the staff working on these shows don't even seem to realize how much it's all disliked in the West.

>>23397946
>It's not s matter of how much time has passed.

It kind of is. By all accounts people should have learned the tricks by now.

>>23397999
You can't learn what isn't passed down. That's really a problem with how japan does things in general. You are expected to watch and learn shit instead of being taught. Except that doesn't work in shit like animation ESPECIALLY when everything is done digitally.

>>23396398 (OP)
I remember faggots on this site whining about the CG in SEED Freedom when the trailer came out. Where are those faggots now? This came later and somehow even more atrocious. Kek.

>>23397942

The cgi in gits sac is miles above the stuff they crap out now despite its age.
It really should be embarrassing that a show from the early 2000s did it so much better than the ones now despite all the training, advancements and inclusion of cgi in animation they have at their disposal.

>>23397960
>And the worst part is that aside from some specially horrible cases it doesn't seem to bother Japanese audiences
You sure about that?

>>23396398 (OP)
We're firmly in the age of media decay. The blinders have been pulled off and reality is laid bare before us without filter and pretense. It will only get worse from here on out. Worship the past and collect every scrap of the old ways you can, maybe one day that knowledge will be useful in the future to people who want to actually create art again.

>>23396948
Old man here. Arcane is a fucking visual masterpiece even if the story is just OK. I've never played LOL and know nothing about the characters but the show was definitely entertaining.

>>23397999
The fault lands on the art directors.

>>23396398 (OP)
Japan only wants to draw girls.