Thread 23440608

I already played 1,2,3, GC, OG1 (GBA), J and A (PSP) and loved them. But I'm so underwhelmed with SRW V, the plot and the interactions are cool I guess but why is it soooo easy? I don't mind it being on the easy side but maaaan, it's so effortless, the terrain doesn't even matter and I think it would be easy to win using only one unit.

Does it get harder as it goes on? I'm on chapter 26 and I think I would have a better time just reading the dialogues somewhere so I don't spend 30 minutes effortlessly killing grunts. Also, are the rest of modern SRW like these? I was kinda hyped for the newer ones because they're translated but now maybe I'll prioritize some other ones

>>23440608 (OP)
>are the rest of modern SRW like these?
30 is so mindnumbingly easy and devoid of almost any not self-imposed challenge and strategic elements to the point that they even added an auto-battle function so the game plays itself.

All SRW after Z are pretty easy. You play it for animations and fanservice at this point.

>>23440638
>animations and fanservice
And sprite work, and all this has gotten worse with time.

>>23440638
That sucks to hear :(
When you say Z do you mean the Z line of games or only Z1?

>>23440641
Z2, 2nd OG and UX are the last games with good sprites.

>>23440608 (OP)
>I guess but why is it soooo easy?
Any SRW, except SRW 3, is easy, stupid nigga.

>>23440608 (OP)
SRW V is fun, youre just a faggot

>>23440608 (OP)
V has Full Metal Panic. It is literally unable to suck.

>>23440608 (OP)
I don't think it sucks, but I think V's the weakest of the trilogy. My big gripe is that it doesn't really do proper crossover shit a lot of the time. That and after Z3 and ACE R, I was pretty much done with multiversal shenanigans.

>>23440638
Z is the last time the staff were really firing on all cylinders.

>>23440608 (OP)
>are the rest of the modern games like this?
They're worse. Of the post Z series games V is the best by a long margin.

>>23440647
Nah, the HD still had some good looking sprites, but the animation was either mediocre to awful for many units. Stuff like the 00 units, and Geass units from Z2 should be the standard for animations.

A good example of units that suffered from both extremes where the Endless Waltz Gundams in Z3, the sprites looked great, but the animation was pathetic.

>>23440880
all the followup games would proceed to remove SR points and dumb down difficulty levels so much you can play the games on automatic now

>>23440761
I liked V's doomed future thing it had going on at first shame it gets dropped

>>23440959
Don't forget units will frequently be stuck with 2 attacks, and a map that reuses one of the 2 animations if they're lucky.

>>23440608 (OP)
Devil's advocate here, you might like SRW X on Expert mode. Just don't upgrade and use the Dogma system to the best of your ability

Also Chitose is hot as fuck so V doesn't suck

>>23440608 (OP)
MK3,4 and Moon Dwellers are the last 2 SRW that requires a working brain.

>>23440638
Z1 isn't that difficult outside of a few select maps and if you pick Rand then you're basically on easy mode for almost the entire game. The sequels have a handful of maps here and there that might be a bit rough if you don't know what to expect and aim for all SR points.
But overall, if you're looking for difficulty in this franchise, you're better off playing a NUR Challenge/EX Hard. This includes the "hard" games as well.

>>23440761
I'd argue it's the best of the trilogy. X's isekai bullshit was poorly thought out and T barely made any sense. V was the one that was willing to go balls out nuts.

>>23441759
>V was the one that was willing to go balls out nuts.
How? It was essentially Yamato The Game except you don't even get to play as it through the majority of it

>>23441771
he's nostalgic for that 2016 hype where we hadn't seen Mazinger ZERO in a game and having a Brave series other than GGG was unthinkable and it was coming off the heels of Z3, etc

That shit makes people able to overlook how some series had to be written into absolute nonsensical pretzels in order to work with Yamato, how the game is one of the absolute worst offenders of the alt world bullshit and how bad the pacing is.

I took my rose-tinted glasses off long ago. Still better than T though

>>23441780
>Still better than T though
Eh T had more series I like, I can't stand Cross Ange and its retarded "I watch this ironically" fanbase,so it edges it out BARELY. Fuck Please like Wataru The Game though.

>>23441780
I won't deny Zero is a big part of what I liked but that's also I think to my point. That they not only added Zero but gave us a pseudo sequel to Shin counts for a lot in my eyes in how they were actually willing to go in depth. They did that, they did FMP novel shit, they did a lot. And you can sit their and blame nostalgia but nostalgia is kind of a huge draw to the series upon entry. And yeah they had to tie the plot into a mobius strip but it's more than they did for X and T. So yes. It's the best in the trilogy.

>>23441683
Nah, Setsuko could get pretty dificult by combination of secrets, skill points and Zeuth points. If you went and maximized your investment by funneling your cash into upgrades before the major split (Gundam X, Impulse and MK-II), then you'll definately hit some snags. It doesn't help that one of your better units (Gravion) shits itself at the worst possible time.

>>23440647
Moon Dwellers has the best in the whole series.
https://youtu.be/4vYht5M5dhc?si=SH1uW7bqJHgWF8ZU&t=167
https://youtu.be/LYIy5S9qV2c?si=u8SqJwmQSjWxaTZn&t=137
https://youtu.be/66QSX06cq3I?si=oU8VFquT_tVFRZUi&t=380
https://youtu.be/qyIohLnHZGQ?si=BXZbaPQ-bTE5XOsM&t=287

>>23440608 (OP)
It has Hard and Expert modes. Did you try them?

>>23440638
Z3 was pretty hard

>>23440761
>but I think V's the weakest of the trilogy.
That would be T. It doesn't get good until halfway because the first half is just the characters fooling around aimlessly.
X has the better maps but Wataru is insufferable and everything about him is cringe fest and friendship is power garbage

>>23441803
>They did that, they did FMP novel shit, they did a lot.
They did that in Z3. Who cares

>>23441780
V at least had the decency to make the alt-worlds the crux of the game's plot and try to make a compelling story of how they tied into one another, instead of stuff like X where it's a dozen different worlds dumped into one additional world, or 30 just being a clusterfuck of alternate timelines to the point the OG units aren't even all from the same worlds.

>>23441780
>how the game is one of the absolute worst offenders of the alt world bullshit

All the alternate worlds in V are directly connected though, with the Yamato one being the original future of the UC/Eva world (with the past being changed due to the FMP characters) and the 00/SEED one having connections with the UC/Eva one due to using series lore through Cross Ange (the alternate world from Cross Ange being the UC world) and Might Gaine (Black Noir manipulating both worlds) and the Axis event actually being a portal that took Amuro and the Nu to another world, leading to the Psychoframe tech ending up in the 00/SEED World which is then used to perfect the Martian teleporting technology.

The pacing is kind of screwy (10 chapters of Yamato journey, 30 chapters going around the rest of the plot then back to Yamato for the last 10 or so). But those 30 stages all end up setting the other two alternate worlds needing to go in the Yamato journey too, so it feels like everything has a big pay off and lines up by the end, with the OG enemies also being integrated into the Yamato plot rather than feeling out of place.

>>23441780
T was "please like the OG plot" the game, because the OG plot got a lot more attention than anything else since the game didn't have enough assets to make anything else a major focus. And the OG plot was fucking garbage

>>23441803
>in how they were actually willing to go in depth.
But they don't? I'd be more forgiving if there was more to it, but there's very little that happens after Dr. Hell goes down. Kouji gets ZERO under control with Tetsuya's help, and then the Myceneans appear, and you kill them, and that's kind of it. X did it much better by making ZERO a persistent threat

>>23441888
>instead of stuff like X where it's a dozen different worlds dumped into one additional world
this is a case where "it's only bad when the game I don't like does this" because I would bet my ass that you don't criticize the Z series for doing the exact same thing
The approach works a lot better than having dimensional travel bullshit (or at least it has the potential to) because the different settings do all exist in the same space, and therefore can have actual meaningful interaction with each other, whereas when they're all sequestered like in V, there's no real potential for that and the best you can do is what >>23441889 mentions (and even that stuff is really kind of a dumb reach that doesn't make much sense)

>>23441899
>this is a case where "it's only bad when the game I don't like does this" because I would bet my ass that you don't criticize the Z series for doing the exact same thing

Not that anon, but X isn't like Z though. Yeah, you get a city from Might Gaine thrown in there and some space colonies, but in every other case (aside from the native series in X - Wataru, Gurren Lagann and Cross Ange that take place in Al Warth by default) it's just the characters thrown into X's world. They tie the Mycenae and Nadia's Atlanteans into Al-Warth too, but all other worlds are basicaly unrelated.

Their only ties is that 3 of the worlds are like mirrors in a cycle of war, peace and revolution and that powers of the OG villain, but even then there are characters that come other worlds aside from those three main ones, like even the OG protagonists are from an unrelated world, as well as Buddy Complex, another series that gets a lot of focus. They also have Tobia being from a future version of UC like in V, but here there's nothing tied to that plot-wise. It's just how things are and they don't try to excuse his tech not being better than the past suits in spite of him being from the future.

There's also a cycle of reincarnation, but it's just basically the explanation for some dead characters being around in Al-Warth.

Terrain hasn't mattered in a SRW in decades lmao

>>23441919
>him being from the future
Because he's not, he came from his own alt dimension, same for the G reco cast.

>>23441919
>the endless waltz explored in Endless Waltz literally powers the main villian
Fuck me, I must have forgotten how cool an idea that is. Really wish this series tied in the shows' plots to the game's OG plot more often.

>>23441919
>but all other worlds are basicaly unrelated.
which is kind of irrelevant because basically everything else was plotless anyway (and even for the plotless series, there was sort of the implication that Al-Warth was another version of Byston Well). Your complaint is akin to saying that Z didn't do enough to work in Daitarn 3's setting

>>23442009
Z is weird because they allude to the Meganoids but then Banjo apprently murdered them all offscreen before Z2 starts

>>23442086
He doesn't, he actually killed them between Z2.2 and Z3.2. He pretty much spent Z3.1 killing them off screen.

>>23440608 (OP)
Unfortunately, it's a mix of really easy enemies, really bad terrain, poor map objectives, and the game just handing you wildly high base power moves in the late game.
You can be doing a no upgrade run and still hit for 40k in the late game without breaking a sweat, and bosses do not have enough goddamn HP.

X is a little better about this, but T is worse, and 30 is only slightly less worse.

If you're looking to get more out of a game that's actually translated, your best bet is to play W (easy, but fun objectives), OGs (the PS2 OG games), or play one of the games that has a pretty solid LP like Z2 or something.
There's even a 5 enemy upgrade new game save for W floating around that gives the game some teeth.
(Or play Fantasy Maiden Wars when that comes out later this year.)

>>23442135
Oh, and Y might be based.

>>23440608 (OP)
You have to completely ignore every single method of powering up your stuff for VXT30 to even approach fun, that means no skills, no parts and no upgrades, and on top of that no ExC use outside of the ones mandated by SR points or using spirits on enemy phase.

>>23441922
Alpha 3's the last time terrain did much in the mainline games, mostly asteroid fields out the wazoo
The later handheld games were easy enough that you rarely needed to pay attention to terrain, but no SR points meant there was nothing stopping you from camping good terrain on most maps, of course that takes longer than stacking Mega Boosters on a battleship to ferry everyone to the new enemy spawns
OG likes island maps and giving half the cast B rank flight, and cities slow you down to a crawl on the ground too

>>23442009
The issue is that even in the case of the 3 worlds I mentioned their only connection is that they were always different stages of the "cycle". There was no actual character or tech relationships throughout the story. It's just a reveal that comes at a late point.

>>23442135
>(Or play Fantasy Maiden Wars when that comes out later this year.)
Didn't that come out like over a decade ago?

>>23441882
>Wataru is insufferable and everything about him is cringe fest and friendship is power garbage

You need to be 18 years old to post on 4chan.

>>23440761
>think V's the weakest of the trilogy. My big gripe is that it doesn't really do proper crossover shit
and X and 30 do?

>>23442254
Who cares? The three worlds are not the setting, they're the background for it. We never go to any of them.

>>23442324
That's kind of my point though? You have the characters from these unrelated worlds just thrown on X's world, so they have no real connections, unlike in V where you have the cast of 3 worlds thrown together and their stories are connected in various ways in spite of the different worlds. It's not as a good as a single world, but it's still superior to just throwing the characters from unrelated settings into a different world.

Honestly its a miracle this franchise even still exists.

>>23442258
Yes, but its getting an official English translation from the original team that worked on Scarlet finally. Which is insane, honestly.

>>23442135
>Fantasy Maiden Wars
OP here! Didn't know this existed and I love Touhou so thanks for telling me it exists :O

Such a shame about the newer games being crappy, but hey at least there are a lot of old ones I can still play (and wait until they get translated)

>>23442436
For more than 30 years. Until V, at least two games releases per year. While other franchises came and go in the meantime. Difficult aside, this is a franchise that dies hard.

>>23442436
>>23442606
BB Studio is incapable of making a good SRW game. They haven't made an impressive game since Z1. Banpresto was always the weakest studio and they completely failed to adapt to the HD era.

Original SRW? Developed by Winkysoft.

GBA/DS/NDS games? Developed by A.I Co., Ltd.

MX/OGS? Developed by Tose.

>>23442368
>but it's still superior to just throwing the characters from unrelated settings into a different world.
How? Why do connections between worlds that we don't see and pretty much only exist precisely for the purpose of not overcomplicating the backstory matter more than actual interactions happening in the present that are only possible because of a merged setting like Al-Warth?
Like I'm not even saying that X does it particularly well. But with V it's like the only parts of the setting that actually cross over are background details that don't even have a chance at actually mattering

>>23442820
BB Studios also makes OG now.

>>23441807
>GX, Impulse and MkII
That is your fault for trying to game the system and doing it poorly. The only unit that leaves prior to the split that you actually have to upgrade is GX (Setsuko) and MkII (Rand). Impulse has a very lenient deadline in comparison.
I still wouldn't call it a difficult outside of select instances such as Setsuko's Stage 15 on a blind run.

>>23442253
>>23441922
Terrain in the sense of camping on a forest or base tile generally does not matter in SRW because many of the games also feature SR points that encourage to just play aggressively instead of camping.
When we do get games where having B or worse terrain actually does matter (AP and K for example), people complain bitterly about it. Z also seriously clamped down on S Ranks since you'd actually have to unlock it for a pilot.

In the case of OG, the first three games are actually pretty lenient about it. Yes, even Ryusei's infamous water works also happen to give you a bunch of flying units and/or units with water movement. 2nd OG/MD is when they attempted to rein it in by adding a bunch of B Ranks all over the place, so you'd care about water jets and so on.

>>23443489
Didn't seem that way, I got 7 fully upgraded units for the price of 3, so the harder mid game did pay off.

>>23442135
>bosses do not have enough goddamn HP.
Do you really want to revert to the era where their idea of difficulty was give every boss 6 digit HP and HP Regen L only for it to not matter because you could still beat them in one turn?
Bosses are generally the least threatening part of SRW (and other SRPGs) because they might seem impressive on paper but they can't handle all of your guys smashing their best moves on them at once.

>>23443503
The endgame is generally considered to be the easiest part of Z1 though. So you made the midgame harder in exchange for a minor "boost" in the endgame.

>>23443498
People complain about AP & K for numerous good reasons.

>>23442135
>(Or play Fantasy Maiden Wars when that comes out later this year.)
Or Battle Moon Wars.

>>23440608 (OP)
I liked it. I thought T and 30 were worse.

>>23443570
>AP
The balance is sketchy in places but people really overblow shit like you being forced to use only one specific set of units.
>K
The story is a legitimate problem. The squad system is not entirely useless as many like to parrot. It is also extremely friendly to favoritism because you get free stats for feeding everything in your favorite character.

>>23443498
I wish people didn't hate K's terrain ranks mattering so much.
Complaining about B ranks in space when you have so many hybrid land/space maps feels like complaining about thoughtful map design.
I'll take that over any of the shit in VXT, and a large chunk of 30.

>>23443504
I will take that over killing a boss in half a turn. It sucks in V, and it sucks in Alpha 3 too.
Some SRW games have had bosses that work, because bosses aren't just a single dude you beat up, they're a feature of the entire map.
Z1 and Z2 have a lot of these, as does Alpha Gaiden and some of the better Alpha 3 maps.
You don't gotta go full Dark Brain or Don Sauzer.

K is overhated. I prefer it over W and think it’s a better game.

>>23443937
>Bosses that require more than half of your team to beat
If they dont have Prevail then that pretty much excludes them from the list unless they have comically large amounts of HP. If you're out of the early game, then many bosses tend to go down fast if you're support attacks. Even FMW has to use the spellcards as a way to get their bosses to last longer because if they had a singular health pool, many of them would struggle to keep up.
>There's a lot of bosses that are features of the entire map
Like who? I'll give you Gaioh, Z Master and the Overdevil.

>>23444183
You just gotta do the thing where you get jumped by multiple named characters at once. A bunch of tougher enemies coming at you together is more threatening than one guy with triple action.
And if a boss has to be on their own health gated casts of Wall is a crude but effective way of forcing the player to actually give them a turn to do something. Moon Dwellers actually started doing that again instead of giving bosses massive HP Regen, which only encouraged killing them without letting them get a turn.

>>23444661
>You get jumped by multiple named characters
Somewhat common on RR stages since they have more named enemies. I remember the map in Z2 where every named Gundam enemy up to that point attacked you.
>Enemies cast spirits
I remember MD making mind blast actually useful for once

>>23440608 (OP)
The new games are just...dull

Every unit you get is so power crept, there's nothing heroic feeling about anything you're doing, when you're a space defying, warping, unit that can fire a thousand beams

You don't have any feeling of heroism, from the stakes being high, when every single unit you have is God level, nor is there any true interesting plots that can come from any form of limitations what a hero can do

>>23444777
This leaks into gameplay

Why bother putting someone like Michiru Saotome in the game with the Command Machine?

The players would never choose to use her over a Shin Getter, unless they were essentially forced to.

But simultaneously, being made to use unusual units, and finding a niche for them is what could keep any particular SRW game a memorable experience, where you can't just rely on spamming SHINE SPARK 100 times

The game has focused on being a better cutscene collection, but it's gotten weaker and weaker on the front of being an actual role playing game

>>23444777
I remember playing 30 being so excited to use weak suits only for the FA Hyaku Shiki Kai and the Narrative to be given before the og gundam and getting Shin Getter Dragon when you have depowered Gridman and the Ichinana.

What's even the point? Why bother trying to revert to a lower power level when you're just gonna throw stupid high powered mechs at you at the same time or even before? I was really excited to finally have weaker mechs but then the game shits on that by giving you god tier mechs. There's no sense of restraint and mechs like Shin Getter become so goddamn lame when you don't get a frame of reference on how cool they are without a proper upgrade.

>>23445191
30's balance is just all fucked due to how open the game is and you being able to mess with the order of the stages.

Although the Narrative is actually oddly underpowered with its initial frames and the Hyaku Shiki Kai FA really clearly was supposed to be just a Hyaku Shiki that was slowly upgraded through the game. You still get that but just in the form of stat boosts it gets several times when events happen where you were clearly supposed to change from the OG to the Kai and then to the FA.

Shin Getter Dragon also is limited initially due to being solo piloted by Ryoma. It gets a big boost later on.

>>23445204
It just bothers me on principle. The entire game up until then has been selling you on the idea that the humans are the underdogs considering Majestic Prince's plot and it's actually somewhat believable until then. I can believe great exists and I can also believe there being decent Gundams but why throw Mid-UC tier mechs at us? At least the late uc victory mechs are based on the OG Gundam and are piloted by relatively inexperienced people like Uso. I just think throwing Shin Getter Dragon, even if gameplaywise it's nerfed compared to it's true power it just throws the entire feeling off in a way that makes the underdog story feel completely nonsensical. You can't be the underdogs when you have a mech above the tier of Shin Getter at your side. I just want some restraint for them to use weaker mechs and not just give us an insane top tier mech as soon as they say go.

>>23444748
>Somewhat common on RR stages since they have more named enemies.
I meant like using characters from different shows if they have to but also true.

>>23445219
I mean at this point you may as well be complaining about every SRW game after the first few. I find it no more believable that Zeon doesn't surrender the minute the player gets Gunbuster/Ideon/whatever on the team but we've been through this song and dance countless times

>>23445304
I like how the Zeon soldiers actually have combat quotes complaining about how unfair facing Super Robots is now. But, yeah, in the actual story the commanders seem to barely acknowledge you're throwing the freaking Gunbuster at them.

>>23445304
Yeah but back then there was SOME restraint where you'd get the more op mechs later. I'm not saying SRW shouldn't be a power fantasy, just that some buildup goes a long way to making the power fantasy feel good. My issue is vxt30 makes it so that you get the really OP stuff quickly and it defeats the purpose of the initial setup that you are the underdogs. I don't want SRW to be "oh always underdogs" I just want them to stick to the premise and not make it feel silly until the moment where you feel like you earned the power, if that makes sense. I'm fine with getting units that are OP early but upgrade into something even better later (mazinkaiser ova kaiser) I just want some restraint if you are trying to lower the powerlevel, even if briefly (I think it lends weight to the story well)

I'm super tired so I hope I am getting my point across and not sounding like a deranged lunatic.

>>23445314
>Yeah but back then there was SOME restraint where you'd get the more op mechs later.
Depends heavily on the game
Like Alpha 2 if you start with Ibis you get Daimos stage 1 and he never stops cracking bosses in half even after you get Mazinkaiser/Shin Getter back late game

>>23445336
Yeah, fair enough

>>23445336
>Daimos
IIRC she gets him about 8-10 stages in. Ibis gets Crossbone from the beginning and they're alright.

>>23445314
>There was some restraint
Even AP gives you three of the best units in the entire game within the first four stages. Meanwhile, Shin Getter Dragon is mediocre until when Ryoma finally gets Hayato and Benkei back.

>>23445390
It's stage 3
Ibis and Sanger get Daimos the earliest but he still joins on every starting route by stage 12

>>23445391
I meant moreso storywise and not gameplay wise. Gameplay wise OP units can be found even in the most unlikely places. Storywise is where my problems are.

>Storywise
>The unit was damaged and can't function at full power
>The unit is missing pilots and can't function at full power
>The generic mooks are stronger than they look because they have updated internals based on current tech
>The heroes have political problems sandbagging them
>A lot of the supposedly OP units arent that OP until near the end of their plots and said units have plot to do
You're doing it wrong to assume that in a crossover that everything is the same as their original settings.

>>23442318
It's more like V just has big stretches where you just do one show's plot at a time. Particularly Yamato. There's big 5 mission chunks throughout where it's just Yamato 2199: The Game. Which is fine, but also not all that interesting to play the plot so straight.

30's biggest problem is that the backstory sounds cooler than the actual plot

>Getter Team defending Jaburo
>Gai and Tetsuya butting heads

Etc.

X is a deeply flawed game for a bunch of reasons. Least of which was having only two fantasy mecha shows (Only one with plot) in their isekai game.

>>23444777
I didn't even bother to field healer units after a while in 30, with all the support spirits, flash, invincible, etc., the ability to cast them during the enemy's turn, enemies going down in one hit so they won't hit you, anyway, you being able to chain kills with zeal, ex-commands, etc.
It goes beyond power fantasy and straight into poor, easily exploitable gameplay territory.