Thread 42467018

>“We’re the greatest aerial team in the Everfree Forest.”

I understand that it may not have been known by the writers at the time this episode aired that there was only one pony settlement in the Everfree Forest, but knowing the lore we know now, would anyone not see this statement as an exaggeration of how well-recognized the Shadowbolts really were (or at least pretended to be)?

>>42467018 (OP)
Weren't the Shadowbolts a illusion? They're just saying stuff to try to break into Rainbow Dash's loyalty.

>>42467026
The point was they were giving themselves away by implying more ponies lived in the Everfree Forest than just those in Ponyville.

>>42467029
How? If you mean by them saving they're the greatest in the Everfree Forest, it's that they're the greatest by default if they're the only aerial team in the Everfree Forest.

>>42467042
Sure, it’s logically valid, but it’s just redundant. It’s like saying that something is the best of its kind in New York County, when in reality, the borough of Manhattan is the only settlement in that county. Why not just say “The best of Manhattan”, then?

You guys are overthinking it. Dash only saw cool pegasi in costumes and got excited. Didn'r even think about the details

>>42467018 (OP)
Those costumes look cool as hell.

>>42467060
this, dash is retarded and doesn't know shit about the everfree so she would believe anything.

OK that's cool and all OP but I'm hearing 'blank-eyed apparitions trying to lead me into temptation' and my heart is filling with terrible ideas.

>>42467018 (OP)
Did Nightmare Moon really have to spawn in two Soarins? I think one would have been enough for RD

>>42468232
two holes, two soarins

>>42467029
They just knew Dashie is a dum dum.

>>42467018 (OP)
If the one in the middle took off her goggles she would have had so much porn of her. That would have been Luna's alternate form.

ALSO WHY THE FUCK CAN NIGHTMARE MOON TURN INTO MULTIPLE BEINGS AT ONCE? Is it just an illusion or are they functional? I bet if she kept using them then they would have been functional just like the retarded power creep of the changelings.

Season 1 discussion? on /mlp/? in 2025 ??!?!?!! It's more likely than you think! :O Call now! and we'll throw in a Feeling Pinkie Keen atheists vs christians discussion for free!!!

>>42468913
we need moar

>>42468913
trust the (magic) science

The ponies have no idea what's in the Everfree Forest, whether there's other ponies or not would be completely unknown to them.

Even though it's not exactly related. The Everfree Forest had a specific lore in season 1. It was changed later; and when lore is changed, if the later lore can't be reconciled then forget, specifically if it's a whole different person making the lore.
Disney Star Wars is a great example where balance in the force is shown to be equal light and dark, but in George Lucas' version balance meant all light. These two things can't be reconciled so you have separation of lore. Which is annoying but I think you have to pick one.

The Everfree Forest was originally the border of western Equestria a massive land outside of Equestria that the ponies never went into, and didn't know what lied beyond it, and it was expanding towards Ponyville. All of that is referenced in season 1. And stayed the same even into season 3. But Hasbro's toy department changed it with their toy map and then I don't really know what they did in the later seasons but if it doesn't match then I personally could not care I would stick with what the Everfree Forest originally was when it was created. They do make the Everfree forest slightly less scary though by having the ponies visit Zecora like it's no big deal, mostly. And they only mention the expanding of the forest a single time. I think the Everfree is the saddest idea that wasn't carried through with.

>>42468281
Given that the middle one is the only one that talks, or really does anything other than just kind of stand there, they probably aren't very useful outside of creating the illusion of there being more people. It's especially telling that the only one that tries to physically block Rainbow Dash when she tries to tie the rope is the middle one.

>>42469229
>The Everfree marked Equestria's western border
What the fuck even was Equestria going to be begin with? A kingdom the size of Luxembourg or something?

>>42469384
>A kingdom the size of Luxembourg or something?
would actually be pretty based if little ponies had a little state like Liechtenstein

>>42469229
>but in George Lucas' version balance meant all light
Not a Star Wars crack, but isn't Luke himself supposed to be like some dark edgy Jedi considering he uses Dark Side Force abilities? So a balance of both?

>>42469384
Equestria was probably pretty small in Lauren's mind. in G1 Ponyland is tiny, and it has a population of about 10 ponies. In FiM they say that cloudsdale provides the weather to all of Equestria. The Pegasus also fly to gather the birds to get them back for winterwrapup which they seem to imply is a one day task, maybe. But the main thing is, and I'm stealing this from Peel-off videos, we went from small ponies in a big world, to later seasons big ponies in a small world.

>>42467018 (OP)
Haha it would be really funny if the mare in the middle was real and I could brush her mane and stuff haha that would be so funny somebody should draw that haha

Btw, isn't it weird that none of their challenges had to do with resisting to molest fillies?? I mean, Twilight did not have a trial, so I assume that would be hers.

>>42467018 (OP)
>, would anyone not see this statement as an exaggeration of how well-recognized the Shadowbolts really were (or at least pretended to be)?
I'm pretty sure it was just staying consistent with the rest of the two parter, since the Elements of Harmony were in the old castle where NMM was headed.

When she left, before she got there, NMM logically should have thought "This is the premier center of the Equestrian world!" because it's the castle of the two sisters and was THE place when they left. Sure, we don't get to see how massive it is until the NMM/Celly fight wayyyy later, but it just makes sense from a writing perspective to keep it consistent that NMM thinks that place is the more important castle then the one she just left, meaning she thinks Everfree Forest is the center of the pony world.

>>42469851
>reee why do mammals have sleep cycles
>thinks a dilapidated abandoned castle surrounded by a forest full of monsters must be the current capital of the entire world
Luna is a really shitty nonsensical character when you think about it. The only thing good about her is all the early fanon that pretends there's more to her.

>>42469851
Of course it was not in the Everfree forest originally. The Everfree forest took over the castle which Twilight implies when she says "The castle which is NOW located in the everfree forest."
The whole opening doesn't make much sense for Nightmare Moon to plot 1,000 years and be defeated so easily. Which is why Luna and Chrysalis being the same pony is epic and cool and a better idea. Luna changes her shape three times in the show. Chrysalis knows about the underground caves in Canterlot that she says most ponies have forgotten about. Luna is really just plotting her real revenge.

>>42470108
>Which is why Luna and Chrysalis being the same pony is epic and cool and a better idea.
Where would she have gotten the changelings?

>>42470221
from the Moon

>>42469835
Her trial was realizing the Elements of Harmony were embodied by her friends, was it not?

>>42470035
>Shits on the wall

>>42467018 (OP)
>>42467026
>>42467060
>>42467074
>Dash was completely willing to ditch her Wonderbolts aspirations in favor of joining a group she's never even heard of before because they offered her a high ranking position from the get-go, only declining once they added a stipulation that she abandon her world saving mission first
Element of Loyalty.

>>42473893
disloyalty*

>>42475125
sneedloyalty*

>>42475672
dashieloyalty*

>>42471944
the stain being behind her doesn't help much
>>42473893
many parts of the show is about mane 6 getting through the difficulties of their elements. that was just one of the cases

>>42476312
>about mane 6 getting through the difficulties of their elements.
I'm tired of this bullshit defense. This is just a copout people use to excuse the bare minimum. There's a difference between someone being a perfect paragon who never fails and being a flawed person trying their best. The problem is other ponies try even if they aren't perfect, but Dash doesn't. With the exception of a single episode, she basically does nothing notably loyal, and even most of her 'loyal' moments, like the shadowbolt thing, are still incredibly shaky if you think about them for 5 minutes. The problem isn't that Dash isn't perfectly loyal, the problem is that she just barely does what could be considered the barest minimum that every other character in the group easily exceeds, and that is treated as exemplary.

>>42467026
The episode is terribly written.
Why would nightmare moon care about those losers instead of rushing to the castle of 2 sisters.
Its fucming retarded.

>>42476463
She knows that they are the elements of harmony and they'll use the macguffins to defeat her

>>42476420
you can easily say the same about Applejack, the element of honesty. related to her element, she never did anything exceptional, not in the pilot, and not in the Leap of Faith, where her element was supposed to be shown: she just lied and then told the truth. wow
in the same season however, in Rainbow Falls, Rainbow Dash actually did have a hard decision
thing is when you're as ambitious as Rainbow Dash, wanting to join the Wonderbolts so much ever since your childhood, the loyalty thing may prove to be more difficult in this case

>>42477916
>Rainbow Falls
>Hard decision
Also, way to prove my point by once again immediately deflecting to other characters, and then doubling down and saying it's okay that Rainbow is barely loyal because she's ambitious.
All I'm saying is - if the extent of someones loyalty is that they maybe wont stab you in the back or ditch you to satisfy their immediate desires, then we're operating on a very low standard for 'loyalty'.

>>42477956
alright, at least i'm debating with somebody who actually watched the show
>immediately deflecting to other characters
it's showing that the elements don't have much value through the show. maybe Faust intended for that to be, but what value does laughter have? how much kindness is shown in the show? and magic is used by everyone
and loyalty isn't just about not stabbing in the back. fair, it's not shown much in the show, but it's way harder to remain loyal when you are in immediate danger. but that's not argument, since it's, well, not in the show
but even in casual situations it was hard to remain loyal to other ponies. from mane 6, take Party of One, where Pinkie felt abandoned by her friends for shitty reasons and grew hostile towards them until the truth was shoved in her eyes. again with PP, in Yakity-Sax, she literally emigrated
there may be more examples with M6, being unloyal and not fixing the mistake themselves (difference with RD is that she realised it by herself later), but outside of them i can think of Sisterhooves Social, where Sweetie Belle ditched her own sister

the thing with loyalty itself is that you can't display it when everything is alright. you can always be kind and it's easy to be generous when you have enough yourself, but loyalty can be proven only when it's necessary to be loyal

>>42478006
>but loyalty can be proven only when it's necessary to be loyal
I disagree with that. Going back to Applejack, there is a notable amount of people who think she and RD should swap elements and that AJ does a better job of representing loyalty, and I think the reason for that is specifically because AJ shows 'loyalty' specifically in situations where it's not super necessary.
Just for example, one of her defining traits is that she always tries to abide by a promise, and that trait is the primary cause of the conflict in episodes like Applebuck Season and TLR. While abiding by ones word is an example of honesty, it's also arguably a pretty good showing of loyalty as well. AJ always trying to help others and do by her word often times leads her to going to unreasonable lengths to fulfill her obligations, which often times feels closer to loyalty than honesty.
The main problem, I think, is that all of the mane 6 are loyal in rough situations. None of them stab the others in the back or ditch them in a rough spot, so Rainbow doesn't really stand out in this regard, meaning the only way she CAN stand out, is by being notably loyal in more casual circumstances where it doesn't matter as much. But the the problem arises where some of RD's defining traits are that she's lazy and pretty self-centered, which means she often does just blow off other characters if she isn't interested. As an example, Applebuck Season again has the moral of asking friends for help if you need it, but in the episode directly preceding it, Ticket Master, it's established that AJ did ask RD for help in doing something, and Dash blew off helping her in favor of napping. It creates a paradoxical situation where you can't really credit Dash for helping her friends when she's asked, because in doing so we would also have to condemn her for not helping when asked.
I think for Rainbow's 'loyalty' to actually feel earned, her exemplifying it in more casual circumstances is exactly what was needed.

>>42478035
>she and RD should swap elements
i hate to agree here. not only was AJ more loyal at times RD wasn't, but she was also less honest, like Suited for Success, when expressing opinions on Rarity's dresses
makes me think the writers just used the elements of harmony thing for the pilot episode setting and then forgot about it/ignored it for the sake of characters' personalities
Dash's childishness and carelessnes is my favourite thing about her, but the writers shouldn't have mixed it with loyalty unless they planned to make her grow more mature, which i'm glad they didn't, but still i somehow feel the writers wrote her off, not sure if on purpose or out of laziness
>exemplifying it in more casual circumstances is exactly what was needed
same for all characters
i mostly concede, here's a bleh dash

>>42476463
>why does villain have to get rid of the protagonists
Geez anon, ya think?

>>42467060
She's literally me. If you can argue with your heart boner, it doesn't mean you should, right?

>>42478307
>but she was also less honest
I don't really see that. Dash is way more dishonest than AJ is, just because she's more willing to insult people doesn't make her 'more honest'. Dash is incredibly quick to resort to underhanded tactics to get what she wants(FWF being the prime example), and in general is incredibly flippant and doesn't have very many qualms about going back on promises or obligations. By contrast, while AJ occasionally censors herself for the sake of not hurting someone else's feelings, she's still more meaningfully honest in other ways, like her aformentioned habit of always abiding by promises she's made, even to unreasonable lengths, and her general aversion to intentionally screwing someone over unprovoked. Rainbow Dash has a pattern of behavior where she's entirely willing to cheat in contests to get what she wants, where as the only time AJ has done the same was in retaliation for someone else doing it repeatedly to her first.
Basically, RD is only 'more honest' in a very superficial way, where it really only manifests in her being more willing to hurt other peoples feelings, which is exactly the type of thing episodes like Honest Apple said was a bad thing and dragged AJ through the mud for even though it was never a trait of hers. And AJ herself is still more honest in more meaningful ways that actually matter. AJ is both more loyal AND more honest.
I think the biggest with Dash as a character is that she's incredibly unbalanced. She has a lot of negative traits, but she doesn't have very many positive ones. The topcunt meme exists for a reason, she genuinely has an incredibly unpleasant personality, with her loyalty being the big positive trait that's supposed to make up for it. But when you take that trait away... there's basically nothing else there to bring her character up. The others at least have other good qualities that aren't their elements to give them something. Even if Applejack isn't the most honest, she's still generally friendly and easy going. Even if Pinkie isn't the most funny, she's still nice and upbeat. But with Dash, if you take away loyalty, there's almost nothing left that would make her a pleasant person to be around. She has too many negative traits and not enough positive ones to balance them out.

>>42470035
fucking FINALLY
someone had to say it. Luna is shit, and don't get me started when she tried to self-harm with what was essentially a magical nuke

The episode has a poor story structure where it just keeps mimicking the 1st episode, ticket master, applebuck season, best night ever and especially winter wrap up.
Its advantage is that it gives each of the 6 character something specific to do with its screentime fully dedicated to them which is 1 of the only unique things G4 MLP has going for it compared to other team-based shows.

The problem is that each event does not tell a bigger story since they're tailor made for each horse.
Perhaps somewhere in there this could be corrected to both tell a grander story of the everfree forest and keep the character's individual screentime. Ironically there's not that much chemistry between the characters since they don't really sit down and talk to each other, ironically at that part every other show has it beat ... and I do not count Look Before You Sleep as chemistry, ironically.

S1 kino bump.

>>42470035
She's not the one who said it's about ponies sleeping at night. Ever. That's told to us by Celestia, who later shows she neither understands, nor cares what Luna's job actually is.

>>42481081
>Falling for Solarchy-approved propaganda
Sunfags would never!

>>42473893
>uuuuhh I'm retarded how dare characters face temptation and not be boring paragons????
Did you want every trial to be shitty like Applejack's where she wouldn't get anything out of lying so her display of honesty is just stating the obvious?

>>42481081
>FAKE NEWS
kekked

Why do the fag artists always draw them doing some latex drone bullshit

>>42478006
You're debating with a resident Applefag who has a hateboner for Dash.
>>42478035
>While abiding by ones word is an example of honesty, it's also arguably a pretty good showing of loyalty as well.
First, that's a stretch. By that logic, you could say every element boils down to kindness.
Second, AJ's character flaw is stubborness. That means she abides by her promise out of principle, not necessarily always for someone else's sake. That's why she's honesty. The Applebuck Season and The Last Roundup see her hold on to a principle for the sake of it, even when the people for whose sake she's allegedly doing it want her to stop.
>It creates a paradoxical situation where you can't really credit Dash for helping her friends when she's asked, because in doing so we would also have to condemn her for not helping when asked.
You found one minor cherrypicked example of RD not helping when asked from an early episode. When else did this happen?
You also forget that RD is typically quick to jump to defense of her friends whenever they seem to be in danger. You could chalk it up to bravado and recklessness, but that can be part of her loyalty the same way AJ's stubborness is a part of her honesty.
>Even if Applejack isn't the most honest, she's still generally friendly and easy going. Even if Pinkie isn't the most funny, she's still nice and upbeat. But with Dash, if you take away loyalty, there's almost nothing left that would make her a pleasant person to be around
I don't see AJ as easy-going at all. I'd find RD more pleasant to be around than AJ because she's relaxed, actually easy-going, and doesn't nag. What now?

>>42470108
Or maybe the name of the forest changed over time.

>>42481286
>When else did this happen?
It also happened in that Applejack book, and a few of the comics.
>that's a stretch.
I'm just trying to find a way to explain why so many people ascribe to the idea of these two swapping elements.
>You also forget that RD is typically quick to jump to defense of her friends whenever they seem to be in danger.
What about Spike at Your Service? She wasn't quick to anyone's defense there.
>chalk it up to bravado and recklessness, but that can be part of her loyalty
But impulsivity isn't the same as loyalty. Trade Ya notoriously has her impulsivity having her act disloyally.
>I don't see AJ as easy-going at all. I'd find RD more pleasant to be around than AJ because she's relaxed, actually easy-going, and doesn't nag. What now?
Well, you're just objectively wrong. FWF and NCC are both chief examples of Dash being way more high strung than Applejack. Rainbow isn't relaxed at all. She's only 'relaxed' if she's doing something she doesn't actually care about.
As an aside, I don't even find Applejack all that stubborn desu. All the mane 6 can get stuck in their ways on things, and Applejack is actually one of the ones who most of the time is more prone to apologizing and trying to mediate. She's more of an extreme people pleaser than someone who's super set in her ways.

>>42479193
What protags?
For her its just some random shitters.
She wohld have 0 reasons to engage with them.

>>42476953
She doesnt even know that its them.
She got shocked when se realize its them and that was way later.

RD is more honest then AJ.
She is the one who doesnt beat around the bishes and tell others how she feels about things even when its negative.
AJ is like way more loyal.
Reminder that RD ditched Pinkie and got cheese sandwich instead.
AJ would have never done that.
She would have saidnthat pinkie is her friend and that she would want a party from her.

>>42482401
Poor, surface level take, for every time Rainbow Dash was "honest" is surface level at best, boiling down to "Rainbow Dash cannot read the room", and ultimately, can be countered with 5 other examples of her lying trough her teeth. And every example of Applejack being "loyal" is just people misinterpreting honesty, surface level, or can be countered by 5 other examples of her not being loyal at all. Very plebian interpretation of the show, almost like you learned trough memes instead of actually engaging with the episode and it's narratives

>>42482553
>Applejack being "loyal" is just people misinterpreting honesty, surface level, or can be countered by 5 other examples of her not being loyal at all.
Can you name them? I agree with you overall, but I really can't think of any examples of AJ being decidedly disloyal to someone. She's pretty staunch in her support, and I really can't think of any instances of her stabbing anyone in the back.

I find it funny how before Party Of One and Return of Harmony nobody noticed that Applejack is actually an EXCELLENT LIAR.

I don't even hate Applejack it's impressive how much "blackmail" I got on each character simply because I understand them at an intimate level and I actually pay attention to what I watch or rather my emotions and intelligence are in tune and I know how to judge without things going past me.

Applejack is an excellent projecting liar in Bridle Gossip. Also you get some Everfree Forest talk in here as well.
https://youtu.be/GAp1s1V3fUI?t=136

>>42482794
That's not really lying so much as it's just her being scared and projecting. It's a serious stretch to say she's an "excellent liar" because of one time when she was unintentionally projecting her own fears when she wasn't aware she was doing it. Especially when every other time she's lied she's been terrible at it. She's just overprotective as hell.
Besides, basically every character is a master liar by this metric, because they all project at one point or another.

>>42482821
>and projecting
Yeah that's lying. I find it impressive how I'm the opposite of an autist who can actually judge based on both emotions and intelligence rather than just intelligence alone without emotions. Or maybe it's the other way around.
>when she wasn't aware she was doing it.
Whatever makes you sleep at night. Oh she was aware, she was very aware. I mean the bitch wasn't drunk on apple cider or fermenting rotten apples so she has no excuse hahahah. I wonder if my subconscious would behave any differently if I was drunk or it would just reveal me...

>Besides, basically every character is a master liar by this metric, because they all project at one point or another.
Now I'm curious. Are you an autistic enough Anon to link me to each time the mane6 lie in general? (maybe even categorize the types of lying) Hmm I can already think of 1 scene... but that's Twilight she's intelligent, intelligent people lie, especially if it's to dumb people like Fluttershy and Spike. If it was money I would have told Spike to shut it , let alone apologize to the purple walking fetus.
https://youtu.be/4_AQAl_C9TE?t=949

>>42482848
>money
if it was me* heh I turned me into money. Bad subconscious typing, bad. -playfully slaps my own hand-

>>42482848
>Oh she was aware, she was very aware. I mean the bitch wasn't drunk on apple cider or fermenting rotten apples so she has no excuse
Ok, so now we're just assigning knowledge and intention based on jack shit I guess.
>link me to each time the mane6 lie in general
No, I'm not autistic enough to go dig up a bunch of links to clips, I'm just going to give you as shortlist.
Rainbow Dash projects onto AJ in Fall Weather Friends when she immediately assumes AJ is cheating in the race, despite this contradicting Dash's own preciously established standard for cheating. She also lies in Sonic Rainboom and Ticket Master.
Rarity spends all of Green Isn't Your Color projecting her desires onto Fluttershy, assuming she enjoys being a model as much as she herself would. All of Sweet and Elite is built around her lying constantly too.
Apparently you already have something in mind for Twilight, so I wont bother with her.
Pinkie Pie projects her own idea of a party onto everyone else in Best Night Ever, despite no one there wanting to participate in the kind of party she wanted.
Fluttershy spends most of Green Isn't Your Color lying to Rarity about enjoying being a model.
And all five of them lie to Pinkie Pie in Party of One, and of them all, Applejack was the worst at it.

>>42482903
Delicious. Thank you.

Ahem ... Cough out the Shadowbolt artwork.

>>42482553
>RD just cant read the room
She openly says to tank that she didnt want him.
She calls twilight egghead multiple times and openly says if she thinks youre lame.
Or that cheerleading is lame and that she rather do something else.
She is the mostnhonest about her feelings and lies the least about.
None of the mane 6 would be this open about what she thinks but her.
And you cant really just say "its just surface level" since its more then the others.

>>42482553
And really.
RD has more moments where she is disloyal more then anyone else.
The cheerleader episode on S9 i just mentioned?
She openly expresses how she loathes being there and ditches them multiple times.
So much about loyalty.
No one and ESPECALLY AJ would abandon their own team.
If anything it proves my point more because she is more honest then loyal.

>>42481278
real? may I have some pics? haha?

Why did Celestia leave the elements of harmony in an old ruined castle instead of moving them to canterlot where they are guarded?
People gonna shill S1 but then you have the first 2 episodes being trash

>>42484858
No you fool, you, just like S2, never understood: the elements were inside them all along, they didn't need those cheap trinkets. THEY COULD SUMMON THEM WHENEVER.

>>42468281
Nightmare moon can become 3 beings because Faust is a woman of culture who based her off of old mythologies of the moon, this part is specifically from ancient Greece
three Gorgones (= Hekatê Triformis), Medousa ‘the Ruler’ (= the King or Queen-moon), Stheinô or Sthenô ‘the Strong’ (= the general Nocturnal-potency), and Euryalê ‘the Wide-wandering’ (= the Moon ‘wandering companionless’ 5), a phase which corresponds with the solar...
This is an excerpt from "The Unicorn, A Mythological Investigation" by Robert Brown.

>>42485732
No they are not.
We saw how celestia used those trinkets to banish luna.
And she didnt had the elements inside her.
Celestia is just incompetent and left the most important artifacts in the open to be stolen.

>>42482568
The big ones would be The Last Roundup, where she abandoned Ponyville without letting anyone know why, and then tried to escape her friends in order to stay, and then Applebuck Season, where she abandoned all her other responsibilities just to prove to her brother she could handle it all by herself. There are smaller ones, like in Swarm of the Century, where as soon as the parasprites got out of control she went back to the farm to protect her apples, Over a Barrel, where she puts Bloomberg's comfort over everypony else's (this one's understandable) or in Cutie Mark Chronicles, where she abandoned her home in Ponyville to pursue a better life in Manehattan (even if that one's a stretch because she was just a little filly trying to find her place in the world).
>>42484246
See? You mistook "honesty" for being blunt, horribly surface level take, it's like you didn't engage with the show at all

>>42487158
Most of these are stretches desu, especially if we're comparing to Rainbow Dash to say she's less loyal. TLR goes more against her honesty frankly, especially considering her motive of not wanting to break the promise she made to the mayor. And what responsibilities did she abandon in Applebuck Season? Last I checked, the problems in that episode were caused by her assuming too many responsibilities that she couldn't handle, and refusing to back down from them. In SOTC, she already helped get rid of the parasprites once with no hesitation, so I don't really see anything wrong with her leaving to go protect her farm, especially since she sells food to the ponies in town, so losing all her product would be bad for everyone, and Twilight's second plan didn't involve her or require her at all.
As for Bloomberg, any of them could have gone in there to stay in the cart. That's literally what Spike does, it's not like they were forbidden by her. Speaking of Over a Barrel, Rainbow is actually way worse here, since she turns her back on her friends and AJ's family in Appleoosa and goes completely hardline for the buffalo, not bothering at all to try and get a better deal for her friend's relatives and expecting them to give everything. And her leaving for Manehattan as a filly is very weak, as you admit, and even kinda contradicts your SOTC example to, since it now makes that a catch 22 for Applejack. If Applejack not staying and helping her family farm counts as disloyalty, then in your SOTC example, you could easily make the argument that she's being disloyal by not going to help her family protect their crops.
These are all incredibly weak examples of disloyalty, and Rainbow would be just as or even more disloyal if you held her to the same standards across the episodes she appeared in too.

Are any of the m6 written good? Who is the best and worst written out of the m6? AJ might have the least problems just because she is the least interesting.. or maybe Rarity although she was accurately depicted as a whore before later writers turned her into a career woman.

>>42485832
>pic
kek

>>42467018 (OP)
What if they're the worst instead?

>>42487964
I don't really see what makes AJ the least interesting. She has plenty of things going on with her, more than the others do. She's the only one from a broken family, she has the least amount of power, she has the most money troubles, etc. Just because she doesn't act like a bitch or doesn't have a goal of becoming 'the best X in Equestria' doesn't mean there's nothing that can be done with her.

>>42488916
then they are the worst....

>>42467018 (OP)
I always assumed that the Shadowbolts weren't real. That they were created by Luna to stop the Mane 6 from discovering the elements.

>>42488997
Those problems have little to no effect in her episodes so they're largely superficial. Perfect Pear is good but it has zero impact on AJ's character, she didn't learn any lesson again, not that she could have because at no point in the show did AJ ever act like she lived in a broken family so there's nothing to fix that would serve as character development for her to grow. The simple fact that she has no parents holds very little weight alone. How often was her money troubles emphasized, once in a gag? She's only as deep as her archetype.

>>42490362
But that applies to the others too. What problems impact Dash's ability to join the Wonderbolts? What problems impact Rarity's ability to be a fashion designer? None of their flaws ever serve as major obstacles either, but no one calls them uninteresting
>she didn't learn any lesson again,
Bro, nearly every AJ episode is about her failing an learning a lesson. Applebuck Season, she fails. TLR, she fails. Somepony to Watch Over Me, Pinkie Apple Pie, Apple Family Reunion, Bats, Honest Apple, she fails. She fails and learns a lesson more than any other character. What lesson did Rarity learn in Suited for Success or Dog and Pony Show? What lesson did Pinkie learn in SOTC or FPK? What lesson did Rainbow learn in Sonic Rainboom?
Unlike the others, AJ doesn't start the series already being the best at what she does. Rainbow is already the fastest flier, Rarity is already the best designer. They're already at their peaks, AJ was the only one who did have room to grow.
>The simple fact that she has no parents holds very little weight alone
Except it does, because it very clearly effects her mental state and the way she interacts with others.
>How often was her money troubles emphasized, once in a gag?
No dude, it came up multiple times across season 1 and 2.
>She's only as deep as her archetype.
She unironically has more depth than anyone else in the mane 6.

>>42490393
>What problems impact Dash's ability to join the Wonderbolts? What problems impact Rarity's ability to be a fashion designer?
I was referring to 'problems' as in writing problems such as Dash and Rarity already being at their peaks like you mentioned. AJ has the least errors because her concept is the most one dimensional and thus hardest to fuck up.
>it very clearly effects her mental state and the way she interacts with others.
No, it doesn't, not a single time. She'd literally be the exact same with her parents alive.
>No dude, it came up multiple times across season 1 and 2.
It's one thing to say you have money problems, but it helps to actually see the consequences if you want me to care about it.
>AJ was the only one who did have room to grow.
To be fair, she's part of an Apple family farming empire. Her immediate family basically founded the town too, which makes her alleged poorness even harder to swallow.
>She unironically has more depth than anyone else in the mane 6.
I think I can agree on her having more depth than Fluttershy and Pinkie at the moment.
>nearly every AJ episode is about her failing an learning a lesson
I'll agree she learned 'stuff', everyone is learning something but the issue is why does it 'feel' like to people that AJ doesn't learn anything compared to others? I think it's because the stuff she learns are trivial and her farm went nowhere. Does AJ have any defining moments that changes how we look at her? What are AJ's greatest milestones in her journey worth praising? Other characters have obvious spectacles and accomplishments we can point to, AJ not so much.

>>42490519
>'problems' as in writing problems such as Dash and Rarity already being at their peaks like you mentioned. AJ has the least errors because her concept is the most one dimensional and thus hardest to fuck up.
Okay, wait, you're really losing me now. AJ lacks depth because she doesn't have a ton of writing problems? I don't follow the logic. And I still fail to see how AJ's concept is magically more one dimensional than everyone else's.
>No, it doesn't, not a single time. She'd literally be the exact same with her parents alive.
Somepony to Watch Over Me is all about how obsessive AJ is about keeping Applebloom safe, presumably because of their parents dying. And there are other instances where AJ similarly has an extreme aversion to losing anyone she cares about. I think it's pretty reasonable to say those traits are likely caused by the loss of her parents.
>but it helps to actually see the consequences if you want me to care about it.
Applejack lists off a bunch of things she could buy with the money she thought she would get from the Gala, that we never see her end up buying. The consequence was her not being able to improve her family's situation like she wanted.
>Does AJ have any defining moments that changes how we look at her? What are AJ's greatest milestones in her journey worth praising? Other characters have obvious spectacles and accomplishments we can point to, AJ not so much.
I agree with you actually, but I think that's exactly what makes her a good character with depth. She's the only one who doesn't get tons of success heaped upon her for doing the bare minimum. She doesn't just get everything she wants with almost no effort on her part. Yea, AJ doesn't have a lot of spectacle, because she's the only one who's actually realistic in her struggles and achievements. Rainbow Dash or Rarity accomplishing their goals with barely any effort because they're already the best and having these big celebrations doesn't give them more depth, it just makes their arcs lackluster. AJ's depth comes from the fact that she's the only one who actually fails in her pursuits and has to learn to accept failure, without any free hand outs for her trouble.

>>42490519
>>42490565
>AJ has the least errors because her concept is the most one dimensional and thus hardest to fuck up.
Okay hold on, coming back and reading this again, what I think you're saying is that characters like Rarity and RD have writing problems because they have more depth and AJ doesn't because her character is more simple. If that is your case, I disagree. Writing problems like this are a result of bad writing, not the result of complex characterization. A character can be complicated and well-written and not have these errors in writing. So these writing problems existing does not automatically mean they are by default more complex characters. Just because the writers fucked up and made a mistake doesn't make the characters they messed up on more detailed. If anything, writing errors like this only diminish depth, not expand it.

I would've liked to see EqG FG shadowbolts in the show.

>>42490184
How did you come to that conclusion?

>>42482401
>Reminder that RD ditched Pinkie and got cheese sandwich instead.
>AJ would have never done that.
But she literally did??
Everyone in that episode was hanging out around Cheese and ignoring Pinkie. Twilight was the only one who even checked up on her. I guess Twilight is the element of loyalty?

>>42471162
EVIL MOTH PONIES THAT FLEW TO THE MOON TO SERVE THE NIGHT MARE
IT WORKS

>>42490565
>Somepony to Watch Over Me is all about how obsessive AJ is about keeping Applebloom safe
Literally basic big sister/brother behavior, this does not require a death in the family.
>The consequence was her not being able to improve her family's situation like she wanted.
When was this emphasized in the show? AJ was never able to replace Granny's hip but she was doing just fine the whole time because it was only mentioned in a gag, that's what I'm talking about. Where do we see Granny struggling with her hip to do something, where does AJ's alleged poorness actually effects her in episodes and not in our imaginations?
>I agree with you actually, but I think that's exactly what makes her a good character with depth.
We have different ideas on what depth is I suppose. AJ just feels like she doesn't grow at all, she's largely the same from the beginning of the show to the end. She learns all these things at the end of every episode like you say but it's not really reflected in her episodes is it? I'm not only blaming the later writers here, early writers also have the responsibility to show the results of that growth within the same season that growth was allegedly made.
>what I think you're saying is that characters like Rarity and RD have writing problems because they have more depth and AJ doesn't because her character is more simple
You're right I was being hasty. I have no real argument other than complexity means more points of failure.

>people still trying to overanalyze how rainbow dash is a cunt

There is nothing to discuss here. She has no positive qualities whatsoever. You're just a waifufag.

>>42491663
She's plappable, that's the only positive quality she needs.

>>42491663
Then you've never read Peter Pan.

>>42491725
Its also shit.

>>42491677
That's what I've said, you're a waifufag. Simping for an unpleasant and obnoxious cunt because you want to fuck it.

>>42491660
>Literally basic big sister/brother behavior,
Ehh, I disagree. AJ is overprotective to a severe degree, more than other brother/sister characters in the show.
>We have different ideas on what depth is I suppose. AJ just feels like she doesn't grow at all, she's largely the same from the beginning of the show to the end. She learns all these things at the end of every episode like you say but it's not really reflected in her episodes is it?
It is though, it's just subtle. Compare her behavior in Applebuck Season, to SSCS6000, to Bats!. She completely refuses to get help at all in Applebuck Season until she basically has no other recourse. In SSCS, she doesn't go out of her way to ask for help, but this time when Twilight offers, she immediately accepts the first time instead of refusing her. Then in Bats!, as soon as she has a problem, she immediately goes and gets her friends for help. She doesn't even try to get rid of the bats on her own first, her first resort was to ask for help. AJ's attitude in Bats! Is a complete 180 from what it was in Applebuck Season. It's not flashy or grandiose, but she's definitely internalized her lesson here. She does grow, but her growth is all internal rather than being big achievements. As far as I can remember, I think this may actually be one of the few cases of a character permanently learning a lesson and not having to repeat it.

>>42491885
Chad bullied you in elementary school, faggot?

>>42491885
Rainbow Dash is more pleasant than Applejack (doesn't nag), Rarity (doesn't whine), Fluttershy (knows how to speak), Pinkie (is familiar with the concept of peace and quiet) and sometimes Twilight (doesn't overanalyze and nitpick)

>>42493177
>Rainbow Dash is more pleasant than everyone else when you ignore all her negative qualities and pretend they don't exist
The mind of a Dashfag, everyone.

>>42492110
>Compare her behavior in Applebuck Season, to SSCS6000, to Bats!
That's a good point, she very well did become more open to help. That flaw barely got time to marinate though since it only shows up for one episode, I'm not sure, did it appear in the previous couple episodes? We don't really get a sense of how important that flaw was to fix, but at least it establishes her stubbornness. Are there more examples of other lessons she took to heart?

>>42493209
>Are there more examples of other lessons she took to heart?
Well, after Somepony to Watch Over Me, I don't think there's really any more examples of her being super overprotective of Applebloom anymore, so you could say she calmed down a bit after that.
One thing I noticed personally was that it seemed like AJ was a lot quicker to anger in season 1. Applebuck Season, Winter Wrap Up, LBYS. It's minor, but she is a bit more hotheaded there than she is in the rest of the show. Show mellows out pretty noticably from season 2 onward, and just felt more patient and understanding than she did in season 1.
Actually, she seemed more excitable and energetic in general during season 1, now that I think back on it. She actually was probably the second most hyper, behind only Pinkie Pie, while RD was primarily characterized as being kind of a lazy slacker. It feels like they swapped a bit in season 2, with RD becoming more boisterous and energetic, while AJ became more calm and collected.

>>42493203
You can condemn every single character if you nitpick their actions this obsessively. Most of these things are not even framed as being wrong in the show, that autist was just deliberately looking for things to get offended at.

>>42490184
But my question was whether their sort of trickery was ever going to work at all. If Ponyville is the only pony settlement in the Everfree Forest, wouldn’t calling themselves the “greatest in the Everfree Forest” just be redundant if nopony else lives there?

>>42493452
>Most of these things are not even framed as being wrong in the show
>If the narrative doesn't declare it as bad that mean the character is completely fine and they aren't being a bitch

>>42492640
Projecting is not the gotcha you redditors think it is.

>>42493177
Wrong, she is a huge, unpleasant loser, a genuine bad friend on several levels. Maybe try watching the show?

>>42491104
I haven't seen the first episode in a while, sue me

>>42469229
>was originally the border of western Equestria
I'm going to need a sauce on this. S1 never indicates it's the western border. "Border" doesn't appear in dialogue until S5 and "western" never refers to the Everfree's location. It also doesn't make sense for it to be the border since the Castle of the Pony Sisters, the old capital of the country, is deep within it.

>>42469384
Equestria was always huge. They take an overnight train to get to Appaloosa. Even assuming the retarded stallion pulling thing's slower than a normal train, that's still hundreds of miles.

>>42493938
>a genuine bad friend on several levels.
NTA, but as a related aside, this is actually one of the main complaints I have about the show. In a lot of episodes, it really feels like half the mane 6 really aren't putting the same level of effort into the friendships as the other half are. Pinkie, Twilight, and Applejack all feel like pretty decent friends to me. They aren't perfect obviously, but they put in a good amount of effort in most occasions. But Fluttershy, Rarity, and Rainbow Dash just really don't feel like they put as much into their friendships as they get out in most circumstances. Rarity is the most borderline of them, but overall, I get the impression the three of them are more on the all take and no give side of a relationship.