Thread 126702897

The Greatest Scriabin Interpreter To Walk Upon This Earth Edition
https://youtu.be/Gvz39UIADLE

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh

Previous: >>126692964

Nelsons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNoFrfFZpQw&list=OLAK5uy_l55lBOM2SxuNQtyWgOVgVPc0WkVLdWVbw&index=9

Permanent reminder and reality check: Maria Lettberg was and is an Overrated Bloated Meandering Mess That Is The Soundtrack To The Fantasies Of Horny Ugly Trannies And LARPing Mutt Manlets Worldwide.

>>126702953
Seems harsh

Saint Saens Swimming Sea Creature Sisters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyFpZ5MZ7kk&list=RDIyFpZ5MZ7kk&start_radio=1&ab_channel=WROrchestra

I hate this shitty goddamn general. No one can make a single serious comment about music without a bunch of freaks deciding that it’s their cue to turn it into a crappy ironic injoke. Oh, you want to criticize Maria Lettberg on strict musical grounds? Now you have to contend with a month of ironic “Lettbergposting” and “whelpposting” for the crime of having expressed a sincere opinion and they’ll call you a transsexual for objecting. I’m fucking done.

>>126703122
based and lettbergerpilled

I always think that Celibidache should be the name of some sea urchin dish

>>126703122
She has sloppy fourths that's unacceptable to me

>>126703122
How about shut the fuck up no one asked you and discuss music instead of minor insignificnat differences between great recordings?

>>126703255
>instead of minor insignificnat differences between great recordings?
That *is* discussing music, anon.

>>126703122
Just gotta let it wash over you. I've appreciated your posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7RrK-9Ojc0&list=OLAK5uy_lE1kV7KwhEgE6-JFCZet20pwJjayNQq-Q&index=2&ab_channel=PierreCochereau-Topic

Saint Saens Organ Symphony. Starts strong but it does start to drag a little in places and has a descent ending, could have used more organ. The start sounds rather like one of the musics from Lost. A solid 3.6

saint säens is so boring and lifeless

>>126703174
cebiche...

>>126703487
Danse Macabre is the best thing he ever did

>Remember Karajan, remember your home another galaxy. You were chosen, remember?
>Yes! Yes I remember! The beginning, 500 years ago on the planet Zeist

>>126703487
why you gotta hate

>>126703337
3.6 sounds about right

>>126703255
>minor insignificnat differences
>between great recordings
Problem is Lettberg isn't very good and doesn't have a great recording lol but whatever

>>126703509
Followed by Aquarium

>>126703337
The slow movement is the best part though.

>>126702897 (OP)
Daily reminder that: She doesn't understand him or his vision, and even if she did, she lacks the insane technique to pull it off. Her playing is sloppy, rhythmically imprecise, full of pedal smearing, and bizarre rubato choices, and the recording is absolutely dynamically flat, not to mention emotionally dead and utterly uninspired. It's mechanical playing, driven more by academic ambition. Recording the complete works might be impressive as a logistical feat, but it's not a mark of artistic quality.

That is all. Now we can continue with the thread.

now playing

start of Brahms: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 77
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YmpHr9dUlM&list=OLAK5uy_mNuXqiXzgQ829fKy7bW9vsF7BiPmLYYPM&index=2

start of Bartók: Violin Concerto No. 1, Sz. 36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pOKVB0NQuU&list=OLAK5uy_mNuXqiXzgQ829fKy7bW9vsF7BiPmLYYPM&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mNuXqiXzgQ829fKy7bW9vsF7BiPmLYYPM

>Jansen s strong attack and rhythmic acuity created an engaging account of the gypsy-inspired finale, and she displayed exquisite delicacy and cantabile phrasing in her quietly impassioned reading of the slow movement. --Concert review of Brahms s Violin Concerto, Sydney, The Australian (March 2015)

Zelenka is fucking amazing.

>>126703574
>>126703574
Details? No link?

>>126703574
Great cover

>>126703550
yeah i'll just stick to sofronitsky, ashkenazy and trifonov.

>>126703574
>>126703585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aViv3NPEXEg

>>126703557
Tried her Mendelssohn because I saw people praising it but I find her playing kind of milquetoast and dispassionate, little energy or momentum. Not liking the sound of this either.

>>126703550
>>126703550
Lettberg wrote a Doctoral thesis on Scriabin-where's yours?

>>126703574
Telemann also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQFFLkuvans

>>126703657
Based. Haters BTFO.

>>126703653
Fair characterizations. I wouldn't rank her as a favorite but there is appeal in her intimate, lyrical style. You're right though, even though I may enjoy her recordings in the moment, I don't ever really revisit them.

>>126701540
Hint: Because she's not. Lol!

>>126703725
Figured as much.

>>126703574
>>126703585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB67thvWI0s

For me, listening to different and new recordings isn't about finding the best, the ultimate singular performance to rule them all, one to marry and stick with solely forever. Rather, I see it as the equivalent as attending classical concerts with different performers; instead of dismissing a recording because it falls short of the best previous experience, I instead appreciate it on its own terms. Of course there is comparisons and relative rankings, but just because something isn't the best, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.

Plus it aids in keeping the music fresh and allowing it to be explored in multiple dimensions, granting the existence of many interpretations, these distinct perspectives opening up new avenues of appreciating the music and enlarging it to an even greater multifaceted work of art. The result being instead of looking for THE Beethoven 9, you instead have Karajan's Beethoven 9, and Szell's, and Fricsay's, and Blomstedt's, and Bernstein's, and Honeck's, and so on, all with their own shades and moods and strengths and vision.

>>126703805
>aids

Stopped reading there

>>126703725
If, like me, you’d never heard of Maria Lettberg as a recording artist, then this might be partly because she seems to be developing a career several notches below the usual pianistic radar, eschewing international competitions and exploring the less conventional avenues of the piano repertoire alongside the work of Brahms, Schumann, Liszt and Schnittke

>>126703122
yeah I was thinking the same thing. too many forced memes. remember petzold spamming? it's like these people will die if they don't make jokes and simply smile instead of laughing.

>>126703255
discussing differences between recordings is musical discussion. other than analyzing pieces theoretically and asking about performance practice it is the only fucking way to discuss music, even.

>>126703737
Apart from the Scriabin set, which gets more attention because it exists, not because it's great, everything else is either obscure 20th century repertoire or ensemble recordings where she's one name among several. No major solo cycles, no definitive recordings, no interpretive landmarks. You don't usually see this with great pianists. The rest of her discography suggests she's not some misunderstood genius waiting to explode.

>>126703869
That's appropriate since Scriabin is a second or third rate composer

>>126703869
Scriabin should be so lucky that Lettberg deigned to perform him.

https://youtu.be/zYBfk1Vdlvw?t=2212

Vedernikov is underrated
fucking Denon why don't they upload his recodings on streaming

>>126703869
Yeah, the point about her potentially making more in the future would be a valid point if the one work in question actually showed greatness, but it doesn't really, just basic competence.

>>126703897
Quite. A truly great pianist doesn't need 100 albums, but they usually have at least one recording that's exceptional.

hit 'em with the Das Lied von der Erde
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMKScTSqp5o&list=OLAK5uy_nGkc8r0HYxLd_YAoorvcVb9ug7mY4rKBY&index=1

>>126703910
A good job her complete Scriabin is unparalleled.

Nielsen vln cto

https://youtu.be/b3LtytGgjgo?si=9UptrK53APJfzG2_

>>126703910
Exactly, and even if we grant her the benefit of the doubt (that she might have greatness in her), it hasn't surfaced yet. At some point, the burden shifts from speculation to evidence. If the set is her flagship achievement and it's already this underwhelming for so many listeners who know the repertoire well, then it's not unfair to doubt there's some undiscovered brilliance waiting around the corner.

Okay I prefer the shitposts to this fartsniffing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R_9K9vvdus .\m/etal

>>126703939
Right and frankly, that set only stands out because so few pianists have attempted the complete cycle. It's a vacuum, not a crown. People mistake the act of recording everything for insight, when in reality it's a feat of endurance, not interpretation.

The Lettbergcuck is falseflagging, I see.

>>126703943
Right, if any of you faggots wants to have a serious chat about music and recordings, go to talkclassical.com. Here, we pretend to be retarded, and we spam unfunny memes.

>>126703943
so true schizo sister

>>126703961
so true schizo sister

>>126703974
so true schizo sister

>>126703980
so true schizo sister

>>126703685
Telemann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYYl3kork3o

>>126703964
good-music-guide forum is unironically better

>>126703964
Not sure how a couple of people saying "Quite right, good sir" and congratulating themselves about a meme composer is a serious chat, maybe try >>>/reddit/ instead

thanks scriabincels

Now can we just be friends and move on? Discussion and sharing of opinions is good but this has gone too far.

>>126703943
Fartsniffing meaning... discussing music seriously? That's because you're a child.

>>126704039
so true scriabincel

A very recent recording

https://youtu.be/nvX1XnBbVEY?si=nQjC1cu-_8QeRnNv

>>126704008
so true schizo sister

>>126704077
thank you scriabincel

>>126704084
thank you schizo sister

>>126704092
Quite right, good sir

>>126703685
My cooking ost

>every time I listen to Bernstein in the majority of repertory he's a so-so conductor
>except for in Haydn and Schumann where he's one of the best
huh?

Music sounds best in 4/4. It's the most danceable beat, and you get cool phase shift effects when the official time signature is something different. There's no reason to listen in other time signatures. Save the counting for performance where it's actually useful.

3/4 is equivalent to 6/8 for listening purposes.
3 / gcd(3,4) = 3, so you get 2 bonus variations if you listen to it in 4/4. Look at how the timing lines up:
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Each measure of 4/4 cycles through one of three different variations of 3/4.

Philip Glass Anthem Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-EHT3N5sOI&list=RDg-EHT3N5sOI&start_radio=1&ab_channel=PhilipGlass-Topic

Timbre is the most important aspect of music. Genre is defined primarily by timbre. Most classical music ignores sound design entirely and just selects from the standard presets ("orchestration"), resulting in very boring timbres. The second most important aspect of music is the beat (not the same thing as rhythm as defined by classical musicians). Most classical music has no beat at all. An ostinato is a primitive form of beat, which is a vast improvement over nothing.

>>126704184
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>126704158
Yeah his Schumann and Haydn are stellar. Exciting, colorful, rich, dramatic, majestic. What's not to love? Perhaps if one prefers a little more suppleness, but there's none of the occasional Bernstein turgid approach in those performances.

>>126704184
Not a bad point

>>126704197
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>126704184
A bad point

>>126704170
>>126704184
Fuck off and stop shitting up the thread

>>126704233
Quite right, good sir

>>126704218
Well you see timbre is an aspect of music and classical is a type of music

>>126704242
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>126704246
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>listen to Vers la flamme
>realize it’s the musical equivalent of ego death on estrogen
Scriabin knew
he saw through the veil
he wrote music for the moment you realize gender is just another melody in the infinite symphony of the Self as God

>>126704283
Based tranny, Vers la flamme is so good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xka1fq_42fo

It's pretty silly how some of these anons say Scriabin or Wagner is 'tranny' music-it's so abitrary-"Wagner is tranny music beacuse, because he just is OK?."
On the other hand try listening to Mozart and imagining it being anything other than music for 18th princesses-you can't . And I know someone is going to say "uh bro what about Requiem". Let's say 90% of Mozart then, certainly all the major key stuff is prissy princess music

>>126704197
>>126704218
>>126704246
It's kind of a shame that these anons can't handle disagreement and engage in genuine adult discussion so they fall back on this rather puerile banter style of posting

>>126704327
Sister, I...

>>126704327
I don't think Scriabin or Wagner are 'tranny music' because 'they just are OK?', but rather because the fluidity, transformation and unresolved tension of the music resonates with queers and trannies and their own fluid gender whatever

>>126704345
so true sister

>>126704345
Quite right, good sir

>>126704327
The lady does protest too much

>>126704361
No it's cause you don't like the people who post about it or the music. So you made up a cheap baseless slander that you repeat ad nauseum like a child hoping it sticks

>>126704352
Holy shit one tranny liked it?! That must mean its tranny music!!!!

>>126704400
Explain this >>126704352

>>126704413
Not just one tranny, the king of trannies

>>126704400
Sister you have to calm down. This is actually a safe space for wagner loving transgender girls like us so there's no need to get insecure ^-^

>>126704416
If you could find for me reliable statistical data that shows idk 67% of Transgender listen to Wagner or consider him their favorite artist or 32% of Wagner's audience today are transgender, perhaps I'd believe you

>>126704327
>>126704400

Surely you listen to secular polyphony from Sevilla from time to time?

>>126704446
>UHM, SOURCE?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdUMNdUHBo&ab_channel=kademan13

Shostakovich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGCDcWHFE5I

>>126703337
you are literally listening to what is possibly the worst recording of that piece, not exactly a great way to evaluate it

>>126705241
yes :)

>>126705378
It's the K-man

Strange how Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde sounds good to me but opera doesn't. Probably because there's none of that incessant, unappealing talk-singing for exposition.

>>126705484
sounds like you need to listen to better operas

>>126705494
Suggest me on to listen to tonight. Prokofiev's operas any good? Never see anyone talk about them here.

>>126705484
just skip the recitatives

>>126705501
try something compact and free of bullshit

something like Bluebeard's Castle, Otello, Wozzeck, Turandot, From the House of the Dead,

Gaillard's Bach Cello Suites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiW14GAzUzQ&list=OLAK5uy_msEHafke5L4uJ0hqTOczzOZ5LPDbLjbzQ&index=13

Such a unique sound. Almost like a feminine Tortelier lol. Love it. Weird how this set isn't on Amazon but her newer 2011 set is; this one is better, but like, how do people buy this older one then? It was only by chance I found out about it. It's difficult to even find reviews on it.

>>126705534
I love Verdi's Requiem, does that count? :D

>>126704466
unfathomably based. if the Victorian era were a novel Wagner would be the main character.

>>126705519
Not bad advice. I'd certainly enjoy Bach's passions and cantatas more if I did that, but I'd feel too vulgar and philistine. Hell, even a bit disrespectful. Sacrilegious!

>>126705600
Verdi's Requiem is actually very operatic, so sure

>>126705548
Maybe I should learn to love her 2011 set more. I remember thinking it was alright but didn't quite get the hype for it. After loving her previous set though, maybe I'll see it in a new light. It's just as unique of a sound, I'll give it that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyR4Y8c4abQ&list=OLAK5uy_lBE-ikdT1ouev9Udl4kS25CwASW9weJYg&index=29

When you ever hear Bach like that!?

>>126705632
If only opera used that choral style of singing, sigh

Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin (Sei Solo) contain the secrets of the human condition, his Cello Suites the secrets of spirituality and God, and his Art of Fugue the secrets of the material universe.

>>126705692
let's hear em on guitar shall we
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXiNYQypals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOR-xiObYg

>>126705378
Who cares? You can tell whether you like it or not regardless of the conductor

>>126705971
complaining about "dragging" in one of the slowest, most lethargic performances of that work is certainly something that can be at least a little remedied with the recordings by either Paray or Munch, both of which are in the authentic French tradition of that work and take it at a much faster clip

in general it's a good idea to listen to good representations of a piece rather than poor representations, wouldn't you agree?

>>126705992
No because I listened to another version as well and my opinion was the same, the music itself was uniteresting after a while no conductor could fix that

>>126706012
ok

>>126705692
Utter nonsense

So, I found the answer to the question I asked in a previous thread: during opera performances in the past it was usual for the crowd to chat among themselves and only tune in during famous arias.
Is this a better attitude to music - listening compared to present day religious like reverence?

thoughts on CPE Bach?

>>126706124
his music sounds nervous like shostakovich
i blame bach

JC or JS? :^)

>>126705692
>>126705919
I get it now-the human condition is very boring and we spend a significant part of it asleep

best Baroque composers aside from Bach and Handel?

>>126706184
Monteverdi

best complete Mozart Sonatas? i'm fine with old recordings if the playing is better.

>>126706457
Honestly, kinda hard for me to go back to any other set than Robert Levin's now given how he plays the repeats with some improvisation and ornamentation. Really breaks up the monotony.

>>126706457
Haebler. Denon cycle preferred over Philips but both are good. Lili Kraus is also great if you're okay with the worse sound.

>>126706457
Gieseking

>>126706124
the thoroughbass elders had him murdered for revealing their secrets.

>>126704448
dk who the last one is, but he looks jewish, and you think too much about troons

>>126706705
the last one is Sorabji who was literally a gay schizophrenic Indian and a bunch of other things probably.

>>126704448
literally the opposite

P1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7u2NhayJ3IY&list=PLDHp-dZKD6X3XAucgM42RdVh9O_GuhITR&index=12&pp=iAQB8AUB
2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1qgJfT-OCgo&list=PLDHp-dZKD6X3XAucgM42RdVh9O_GuhITR&index=12&pp=iAQB8AU
3
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SpggBzHqM8&list=PLDHp-dZKD6X3XAucgM42RdVh9O_GuhITR&index=14&pp=iAQB8AUB

Might be a little fast

Is Dausgaard the best Mahler 10?

>>126706184
Someone made a good list in the last thread or one before.

>>126707084
I wouldn't say definitively, but it's a fine choice. Other good choices: Rattle/BPO, Inbal, Slatkin

>>126707084
>>126707212
Oh whoops, forgot about Chailly too

>>126707084
The best Mahler 10s are the ones that do the first movement and then peace out.

>>126707221
It's a very good symphony. You're missing out.

>>126707223
Very good is below the standard of Mahler. He wouldn't have appreciated people performing a skeleton of his thoughts. He was a perfectionist. Only the first movement is in an acceptable state.

>>126707235
Meh, as someone who doesn't listen to the four movement version of Bruckner 9s, Mahler 10 'completions' are in a pretty good state. For me, I really enjoy listening to it; I rank it as good as the 4th and above the 1st and 2nd.

>>126707295
Christ alive was there any topic on which this guy wasn't a total faggot

>>126707295
>Even the opening movement would be better honoured by our reading it in silence, rather than by being exposed to performances in which the unrealised becomes the imperfect.
That's funny, but meh, I gotta disagree. Plus Adorno was already dead before the current most popularly performed revision.

>As the American Mahler scholar Jack Diether put it: "It is much more important that what Mahler wrote should be heard than that which he did not write should not be heard." In this case, I prefer Diether's view to Adorno's.

https://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler10.htm

Look, all that matters is if it sounds good to you or not. If it doesn't, then I respect you dismissing it. It sounds great to me, and I think any Mahler fan (hell, even just fans of good classical music) should be interested in trying it out.

>>126707295
Wtf I love Adorno now

>>126704361
Associating harmonic fluidity with gender dysphoria is unbelievably neurotic and the musical equivalent of a repressed homosexual thinking everyone around them is gay.

Now this feels like a Beethoven 9 night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojXX77WP6lM

Neat video featuring the inimitable Christa Ludwig having a disagreement with Lenny Bernstein during a rehearsal of Mahler's DLvdE. Interesting stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f32bhICi-zI

>>126704361
>>126707501
What about the triumph of diatonicism in Parsifal and Meistersinger? There's absolutely nothing perverse about that.

favorite 21st century Beethoven 9th? pic possibly related

>>126707501
As usual the rigid and authoritarian expectations of masculinity render anon hysterical in his denial of the intuitive and immanent experience of the trans girl as she listens to Wagner and Lili Boulanger and sighs with gender slippage.

>>126706184
>best Baroque composers aside from Bach and Handel

Monteverdi
Schütz
Purcell
Rameau
F. Couperin
D. Scarlatti

>her face when she comes over and you play Satie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGR9LiTdxuA

>>126707295
stop spamming this retarded pseud on /classical/.

need to take my MEDtner
https://youtu.be/iObjXt7JWQI?si=2T8rOZjc4YMHyb_K

>>126707519
Based. Any Persian composers to honor Iran?

>>126708234
nobody cares.

>>126708413
I do. It's a pity US can't be nuked, their influence on arts, music and culture has been a disaster.

>>126708597
Fuck Iran. I don't like Israel either, but Iran is a brown Islamic shithole where you aren't even allowed to walk your pet dog.

>>126708618
False. Iran is one of the oldest nations and one of the most scientifically innovative today.

>>126708670
incredible. You lied twice in the same sentence. spoken like a true Iranian.

>>126708670
don't you have anything better to do on your lunch break, Abdul?

>>126708683
>>126708693
Not Iranian, cope seethe dilate etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_scientific_and_technical_journal_articles

>>126708697
go rape a goat.

>>126708683
Also you're extremely illiterate consider >>>/mu/ classical is for the literate, cultured people.

>why can't i repeatedly threaten to destroy a country and meanwhile develop nuclear weapons??
>why???

>>126708735
>>>/pol/

>>126708735
>why can't i deliberately genocide palestinians and then claim i'm the good guy while having stolen nukes and opposing other nations who also want to have them for self defence?
>why???
ZOGbots are lowest forms of life on the planet currently.

>>126707501
Not really. It's a very easy thing to connect if you're familiar with the internet and a particular composer's fanbase. Also, it's a joke.

>>126706184
>>126707807
T E L E M A N N

Z E L E N K A

>>126708768
Palestinians are brown and I hate brown
"people".

simple as.

>>126704327
It's a subtle joke. Wagner's philosophy was transcendental idealism hence why he's called a tranny composer.

>>126708908
>thinks palestinians aren't human
>insults transcendental idealism by associating it with trannies
I wonder what the ancestry of this poster is...

>>126708862
Despite all caps, neither are great.

>>126708919
it's British actually and I don't like Jews or Palestinians. in an ideal world neither would exist.

>>126708933
You may be delighted to learn that "Palestinians" don't exist. They are arabs.

>>126708925
Telemann is the greatest baroque composer. Handel himself said so and Bach made Telemann the Godfather to his son.

>>126708949
>Telemann is the greatest baroque composer

Keep dreaming.

>>126703025
Love the sense of mystique that saint saens builds- a lot of artificial harmonics. The sea is still very much a mystery to us

>>126708990
>artificial harmonics

shut up, pseud.

>>126708925
Wrong.

>>126707501
>>126704361
>transformative
i'm not that anon but, it's really about spiritual transcendence, """transgenderism""" is a purely material "transformation" (and not even a genuine transformation, it's an illusion) that is unrelated to any aspect of these composers' music.
being a """trans""" is like waking up in a prison cell and only being concerned about changing your prison uniform, finding comfort in something material like this is purely Soulless behavior.

>>126706124
he looks like me

best Medieval composers?

best australian composers?

>>126709055
music only starts to get good from the 1650s onwards.

>>126709060
nonsensical question.

>>126709127
no

>>126709127
>nonsensical question.
why? surely there is at least one?

Pachelbel and after.
Reger and before.

>>126709159
there are only two: Grainger and Sculthorpe.

>>126709055
Obviously Machaut. Dufay if you consider him medieval.

>>126709036
This, although it's really much worse than the metaphor you use, because it's actively the corruption of the material, much lower than the ordinary carelessness for anything beyond the material.

Scarlatti and before, Scelsi and after

Ockeghem and before, Nono and after
Josquin and before, Feldman and after
Palestrina and before, Lachenmann and after
Monteverdi and before, Boulez and after

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=eg9oP9UVnlE
Bach

>>126709055
King Henry VIII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B8aln6DpG0

>>126709626
Um, actually, Henry did not write Greensleeves[4][5][6] as the piece is based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death. Also, the medieval period ended in 1485.

>>126709633
it ended in 1517 you absolute retard.

>>126709633
So what music did he listen to while making the beast with two backs with Anne Boleyn?

>>126709667
John Bull.

>>126709673
Where does one start with John Bull?

>>126709710
at the beginning.

>>126709727
I started with Walsingham.
https://youtu.be/1byl3jJGJpc?si=SEL-TMDHDgk3_6xd&t=631
Not bad.

>>126706124
pretty pretty good
https://youtu.be/vWEtK7LqEmQ?si=FYBI5Z190lBHbCig

>>126703574
>>126703685
>>126703990
I hate how boring continuo playing is in basically all circles. Why is there no continuo player that does anything remotely creative with the chord voicings or, God forbid, improvise a countermelody or really anything?

It's such boring "improvisation" and I refuse to believe that this is how continuo was historically done
>look mom i'm IMPROVISING
>listen to these ARPEGGIOS
>Listen to me playing extremely basic harmony that is written down for me to play this is so SKILLFUL and IMRPOVISATIONAL

Bill Evans's piano playing is probably more close to what continuo would have actually sounded like than any of these recordings that try to recreate continuo playing in the modern day based on some academic writings from centuries ago by people who were critiquing others

>>126704327
Because Wagner was outdone in every way by Bruckner who was the Fuhrer's true favorite composer and created the pinnacle of classical music. The only people who would prefer Wagner are those who resonate with his degenerate lifestyle and philosophy.

Mahler, Schoenberg and Bruckner are the straight white man's classical music.

>>126710209
I'm the biggest Mahler+Bruckner spammer here and I'm (mostly) Asian tho

and I'm still pretty sure the sisterposter is Chinese

>>126710126
Maybe, but who genuinely cares about the continuo? It's just the harmony, it's not really the point.

>>126710218
What kinda asian? If you're Japanese I will assume you're the anime girl poster.

>>126710257
It's a display of improvisational skill and one of the only ones that is commonly practiced by classical musicians now (besides cadenzas on rare occasions). I don't like that Jazz is still outdoing classical at the moment on the grounds of improvisation when Classical music historically had some of the greatest improvisers who ever lived but sadly didn't live to record their improvisations.

>>126710258
Vietnamese. But I'm a quarter white so maybe your statement holds true.

>>126710218
>and I'm still pretty sure the sisterposter is Chinese
I don't know. Chinese tend to be pretty based and funny when it's actual citizens and not shills. Sisterposter doesn't really match that.

>>126710281
Damn, do they play Bruckner in Vietnam? I don't really know what daily life is like there. Just know americans attacked it in the 60s due to communism or something.

This is a picture of Hitler (Seated on the right side of the front row, next to the carpet) listening to Bruckner's 7th symphony. How do YOU look like when you listen to this symphony bros?

>>126710293
kek I've lived in America my whole life

>Just know americans attacked it in the 60s due to communism or something.
It's funny, from the point-of-view of Westerners, it was a pointless war the US never should have gotten involved in. From the perspective of my lovely, late grandmother, who was one of the rich aristocrats in the south civil warring with the communist north, the US abandoned them, committing a grave moral mistake when they left.

>>126710308
It was played outside??

>>126710316
It was a recording of the first movement that was played in the courtyard of the Zeughaus in Berlin

>>126710308
The first two movements are nothing short of orgasmic. Almost too pretty to exist, really.

>>126710326
They could probably only hear the brass lol

>>126710310
Well, most people just dislike their tax dollars going to unrelated wars overseas that will never actually reach them and only help the pockets of those in power. Which has been the consistent excuse for every single war America has fought since the 40s

>>126710347
That's a different argument, one I'm wholly sympathetic to. All I meant was, in this case, people in the south were grateful for the help. It wasn't roughshod imperialism.

>>126710332
My one issue with Bruckner's 7th is that the second half is really short for some reason. You got 2 massive movements followed by 2 movements squarely around 10 minutes. Did Bruckner run out of time when writing those? It's one of the main reasons I rate it below the 5th, 8th and 9th. The ending is just way too brief.

>>126710362
Ah, well I agree!

>>126710364
I completely agree, the second half is inadequate compared to the first, creating an uneven structure to serious detriment of the overall quality. The first two movements are so good I have trouble ranking it below third overall, but I definitely don't listen to it much anymore like I used to, and I for sure listen to the 5th more these days too.

>>126710364
It's famously top heavy, with the first two movements by far the most important. With symphony 8 it's the opposite, there the last two movements outweigh the rest

let's go through this Nelsons/BSO Strauss set

start of R. Strauss: Der Rosenkavalier – Concert Suite for Orchestra, WoO 145, TrV 227d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYy0OSy7KcA&list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww&index=6

start of R. Strauss: Don Quixote, Op. 35, TrV 184
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdsLuJFtTE&list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww&index=21

start of R. Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie, Op. 64, TrV 233
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19JICNAKk5I&list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww&index=44

start of R. Strauss: Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40, TrV 190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1HNmlIW4Dw&list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww&index=73

start of R. Strauss: Metamorphosen, TrV 290
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Gd-CLaC8s&list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww&index=78

among other pieces

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mEjLlGm8aGFFr6v0aCDXbi7HWBVACbKww

>>126710393
>With symphony 8 it's the opposite, there the last two movements outweigh the rest
I used to feel that way for a long time, but I've really come around on the first half of the 8th in recent times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P01EqXn7mik
Reminds me of the climate gýgr. I wonder if she listened to this piece on her recent Viking raid on the Holy Land.

>>126710418
>>126710393
I like the first half of the 8th infinitely more than i like the second half of the 7th symphony.

8 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 9 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1

>>126710680
Mahler or Beethoven?

:p

>>126710364
>>126710385
Not that it would completely fix that problem, but part of that is due to modern sensibilities in regards to tempo in Bruckner. It used to be common to perform the first two movements in under 20 minutes, usually 17 minutes or so. That approach does help in making it a little less top heavy.

>>126710695
That should be obvious.

9 > 6 > 4 > 8 > 5 > 7 > 3 > 1 > 2

>>126710698
17 minutes!? In my book, so they're so beautiful I'm happy if they last forever, which what makes the recordings with longer runtimes so good (eg, Giulini, Celibidache, Karajan, Sanderling).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghzevma-nyA&list=OLAK5uy_l1y2Kl2kImDWiAoACBe95ubnSsj0tuiOE&index=2

Hell yes.

>>126710698
uh you mean each of them in under 20 minutes right

>>126708697
>No.15
You tried Akhmed that’s the important thing, now off to the bomb shelter

>>126708234
I wouldn’t celebrate too soon- one sides missile strikes seem a hell of a lot more effective: didn’t this same thing happen twice this year with the same result? Only difference is this time Israel started it presumably to scupper the negotiations

classical pre-Wagner isn't nearly as colorful and vibrant. All of that is really Wagner's innovation?

>>126708990
Very much so

>>126709036
Well transgenderism is a spiritual triumph over the material.

>>126710783
What do you mean by color

>>126710823
Chromaticism

>>126710823
Diversity in orchestration and notes, perhaps.

>>126710827
Is that what it's called?

>>126710184
Who cares- he was a tyrant and mass murderer. If anything his endorsement of Bruckner and Wagner are knocks against them

All I know is, pre-Wagner classical sounds like they were painting with 8 colors (Brahms, Schumann) and Wagner and after sounds like they were painting with 20 (Strauss, Mahler). Don't know what it's called or whatever, but I can hear the difference. It's vibrancy.

>>126710838
>Is that what it's called

Yes. Adding notes, or adding color. Of course Wagner didn't invent it.

>>126708908
You have no basic human empathy, ergo you are not a human

Mozart worked within a very limited imagininarium

>>126710838
>>126710869
If you're referring to orchestral timbre, the French had more to do with the expansion of the orchestra, and Wagner even learned much of his orchestral color from Meyerbeer. Berlioz, Chabrier, and for a historical example, Rameau. Mahler is probably the biggest "leap" in terms of orchestration after Wagner and he said Espana was the piece that modernized the orchestra more than Wagner or himself.
https://youtu.be/Duw89dbC9iw

>>126710891
Dehumanization: a classic tactic of nazis and antisemites

>>126710698
Is there any stereo recording that follows these practices in Bruckner? I love Van Beinum but his Bruckner is mono.

>>126710878
>>126710906
Ah, thank you. See, I don't have know what these things are called to be able to hear the difference and effect, despite many anons trying to one-up me in arguments that way.

>>126710126
But how do you know what they would have sounded like? Maybe what they sound like now is what they sounded
Like back in the day

Mahler completed the symphonic form.

Today I try again to learn to appreciate and love the third part/book/year of Liszt's masterpiece Annees de pelerinage

these second part supplements are wonderful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnbAoMjS_do&list=OLAK5uy_nME_XVXqjIaMmiSFZg9v3dwt3NurbhOgg&index=18

beginning of the third part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8FsWLCFFWQ&list=OLAK5uy_nME_XVXqjIaMmiSFZg9v3dwt3NurbhOgg&index=20

>>126710999
What did Mahler add to the symphony that wasn't already in Beethoven's ninth?

>>126710218
*was Chinese

>>126710126
Have to agree with the Jazzer on this one tho it does not absolve jazz of pressuring these continuo players into the chord bullshit in the first place
They simply allow themselves to be heard in like cattle, as if learning one technique has damaged their capacity in another

>>126711043
Vibrancy.

>>126711043
Hammer

>>126711058
That has nothing to do with form.

>>126711061
That's instrumentation, not form.

My review of Liszts three concert etudes:
1: Eh
2: Meh
3: Masterpiece

Strange how it works out that way

>>126711097
I didn't mean he innovated the form, but rather reached the peak of the form.

>>126711097
The hammer is an important part of the piece anon

Bach and Britten are really the only two composers with solo cello suites? Lame. Were people really that intimidated by Bach? No one thought it was worth trying to compete and compare with his solo cello suites and solo violin sonatas and partitas? I guess I get it, but still, a shame.

>>126711139
I think Reger did solo cello suites.

>>126711139
Maybe there's something among this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solo_cello_pieces

>>126711039
>beginning of the third part
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8FsWLCFFWQ&list=OLAK5uy_nME_XVXqjIaMmiSFZg9v3dwt3NurbhOgg&index=20
Yeah, I still don't get it

>>126711152
Oh? Neat, will check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RYs3-7CjV0&list=OLAK5uy_koqal96crW-5_q-GqiIpQ_VXJh0R3M_yc&index=5

>>126711184
Well I'll be... which ones are good though?

>>126710951
Ormandy. https://youtu.be/NeYZI_tIp9E
I'm in public so I don't know if this upload has good sound, but he does the first two movements in 17-17.
I can upload the CD when I get home.

Now that's the good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfYd-nAYCMc&list=OLAK5uy_nRUBJwqtnVVtHg2x7el_iCaB77XDpncGI&index=1

>>126711220
>which ones are good though

That's for you to find out.

>>126711221
Much obliged.

>>126711234
now there's something I'm never listening to lol

>>126711220
>>126711240

The Kodaly sonata should be good. I see Hindemith and Honegger on the list, those are worth checking out.

>>126711184
>Franz Liszt
>Sonata in B minor for solo cello (transcription by Johann Sebastian Paetsch)

Good Lord...

>>126711276
I promise it's good. Celibidache's tempo on the other Bruckner symphonies is noticeably drastic, but on the 7th and 8th, stretching out those symphonies and their melodic lines doesn't actually change them too much. It works, I'm tellin' ya.

May Wagner keep us safe.

https://youtu.be/7OBlOXh3H7o
Super underrated 20th century symphony from a crazy Frenchman that died defending his homestead from the invading German force during WW1

>>126711139
I'm listening to Ligeti's Sonata for solo cello right now. Not bad!

>>126711384
Ligeti, eh? I'll take your word for it, I've liked some of his Etudes in the past. That's all I've listened to by him. Found a recording that also includes a Kodaly Violin/Cello duo piece, two birds with one stone.

It really is astonishing that Ligeti's Requiem can be utilized so many times and have such a hold on pop culture, and yet you still hear something new every time you listen to it. There’s a 50 year graveyard of pieces that try to emulate Ligeti’s micropolyphonic music, but can you imagine being the first person to write like that? There was zero precedent for music like that before Ligeti. He expressed emotions that had never been expressed before in art. It’s also astonishing that after centuries of Catholic tradition, a Transylvanian Jew came along and beat every previous composer at their own game. Ligeti wrote the greatest requiem of all time despite viewing the religious tradition behind the form as, at best, a fascination. If anything, that distance is key: Ligeti understood Catholicism as a vehicle for complex horrors, which is the perfect foundation for a work informed by his experience during the Holocaust. I don’t think a true believer could have done that as effectively.

>>126711196
>>126711196
Realy? You don't like that? Strikes me as immediately appealing

>>126711448
>Oh look another copypasta

>>126711221
Man, the movement II second theme becomes so lyrical when it's played like this. Really great.

>>126710209
>Mahler, Schoenberg and Bruckner are the straight white man's classical music.

>>126710951
>>126711221
Here's the Ormandy 7th. Kinda rare, had to import it from Japan:
https://litter.catbox.moe/vichbwe0c09yjp0x.zip
>>126711539
Right? Anyway, if you're fan of Beinum's Bruckner, you should check out some of Bohm's live 8ths. The one on DG is kinda slow and normal, but all the other ones are in a similar style to Beinum, with fast tempi. My favorite (and the best recorded) is the 1969 with the Berliners.
https://litter.catbox.moe/btgvmgpc078rjshw.zip
Very good live stereo.

>>126711675
Excellent. Thanks, anon.

now playing

start of Schubert: Sonata For Arpeggione And Piano In A Minor, D. 821
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qUd3cLeFqQ&list=OLAK5uy_kNdlyVTd_jMDZYeHcnYGEW3pjikR9WBYk&index=2

start of Schumann: 5 Stücke im Volkston, Op. 102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNeJocdmbfU&list=OLAK5uy_kNdlyVTd_jMDZYeHcnYGEW3pjikR9WBYk&index=5

start of Debussy: Sonata in D Minor for Cello & Piano, L.135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC9v4HSdIcw&list=OLAK5uy_kNdlyVTd_jMDZYeHcnYGEW3pjikR9WBYk&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kNdlyVTd_jMDZYeHcnYGEW3pjikR9WBYk

Excellent program/selection of pieces performed by some of the greatest musicians (Britten himself on the piano!), what's not to like?

The fact there are no symphonies which build off of the sound of Mahler's 10th is a stunning embarrassment for the 20th century classical musical establishment and its composers

>Unique to this album are the liner notes, written by Nike Wagner, the great-great-granddaughter of Liszt.

Man, Nike Wagner, imagine having a name like that.

>>126712048
Daddy Nike!

feels like a Debussy Preludes day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnkoRA04uPI&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcvLV7iFN0I&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeRP8rOyhZg&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQnVbN9bMsQ&list=OLAK5uy_l3-b2lwPmjl0Ufl23IoX7UWkjkbqbZHDg&index=22

four random pieces to see if you like the recording and get you hooked

Does the LOST soundtrack count as classical?

>>126712116
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>126712152
just say yes

>>126712116
yes

>>126712116
get lost

>>126712116
No.

proposition: the auditory experience of atonal music can only be framed tonally; i.e. your brain cannot help but attempt to find consonance and rational, sane harmony and melody in an otherwise thicket of confusion and mess. it is this oral challenge that the brain of the atonal music listener enjoys, even if they don't know it (a bit like someone who says they like spicy food for its flavor, when it's actually the experience of pain and the relief that comes after said pain).

atonal enjoyers are just tonal junkies engaging in consensual restrictive tonal foreplay.

>>126712391
>>126712391
>>126712391
Novy / Neu