Mozart edition
https://youtu.be/wvouW4v8AII
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.
>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh
Previous:
>>126712391
Is Frederick the Great a good composer, bros?
>>126733144No he's not good
Glen Gould, Sonata no 5 Cкpябин
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-gPU8f-Vc&ab_channel=GlennGould-Topic
Tourist here, who are the metalfag's composers? Wagner, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Mahler, Scriabin? I like the cooler, sinister parts of Holst's Planets if that helps.
>>126733296There's a Scarlatti that sounds like metal , I can't really remember which though.
There's also these two pieces by Royer(the rest of his stuff is not worth it and it might be partly the player who makes it sound so thunderous)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMbBYR_lplE&ab_channel=MuzykawRaju
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxlMfUzqIM&ab_channel=WarnerClassics
There's the Iron Foundry music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-yl4aI6xzU&ab_channel=RoyalConcertgebouwOrchestra-Topic
Jon Leifs Hekla and Geysir maybe a few other things
Some of the Scriabin Sonatas 5 in particular are crying out to be played by multiple instruments but no one does this, they just keep playing it on the piano leaving it trapped in a very limited sonic register
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3fhzZSGFlU&ab_channel=BradSmith
>>126733505His music sounds surprisingly good on 8-bit.
Bless Rachmaninoff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxQRkYQ2m0Y&list=OLAK5uy_m7wL-YDk52jdI2btSSg9Rw48mPBYA4nhY&index=5
Scriabin my beloved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhAQjqfew2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCcTI4jRY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAIlO9w34o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_7nOxeFi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwj1cCL9Lsg
>>126733596By coincidence I'm listening to him as well, it just came on so I left it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRxHyZDU-Q&ab_channel=whiteocean78
>>126733650Heart-melting adagio. This one's even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_UvVwK1BI
Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Schubert. That's all.
>>126728578Neat, but I don't like that e natural passing tone around 0:19.
>>126734346Szymanowski, Faure, Poulenc, Medtner, Scriabin. That's all.
Piano is by far the greatest instrument, everything is better on piano.
>>126733296https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM6hgcTfceI
baroque composers
we are all fellow jews, here are we not? https://youtu.be/977xqcl8DnE?si=FWIsczssVRFfJmHi
Stravinsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOWaOfaewgg
>>126734553So much nicer than guitar. I always thought it was gay as a kid which I really regret now.
now playing
start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in A Major, D. 664
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuCgLv4vMQ&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=2
start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in E-Flat Major, D. 568
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4qRaNtO7xE&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=5
start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in A Minor, D. 537
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD601jSRDh8&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=8
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg
Paul Lewis' Schubert on a clear, sunny day? yes please
so now that the dust has settled, is this the best set of Schumann's string quartets?
>>126734622we aren't Jews but we aren't antisemites either.
>>126735068ah, the booba set
>>126734873in reality it's the guitarists who by and large, are faggots.
>>126733243blueballingly slow
Scriabin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74xmG0LvZdE
>3 am and still awake
I hate my insomnia. Classical for this feel?
>>126735503Schubert's D.959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCvIhO0Qrvg
>>126735503Fauré's Nocturnes.
Dinnerstein's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcyeUBhuqvk&list=OLAK5uy_kjLhPxTpbgujJ5AVN1FIpVdrjVZxMGs6Y&index=1
>>126735706Someday in the future, perhaps decades, this recording will receive the recognition it deserves. Hearing the Goldberg Variations performed like this has the potential power to end wars and cure mental illness.
favorite Dvořák 9 recording? so far mine is Kertesz London, but i haven't heard many others.
>>126735796Dvorak 9 is a piece almost everyone does well, so really just go with your favorite conductor for it. Giulini, Karajan, Kubelik, Dohnanyi, Szell. All great, I'd be happy to listen to any of these and more. That said, if I had to name the absolute best one I've heard, it's Bernstein's (sorry Karajan).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7YaiW6vmPk
>>126735796that one and Rowicki (also with LSO)
>>126735838nta -- That one isn't on YouTube Music so I still haven't heard it, sad.
>>126735842it's on regular youtube
>>126735796https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PQw15-69Tw
>>126735796Karel Ančerl/Czech Philharmonic, 1961
Dohnanyi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzFjT46lZQc&list=OLAK5uy_nquciNfq1GjqjKN4B0xt_P5ikpd9O14vI&index=1
>>126735882I'm convinced 99% of the critical acclaim for Ancerl is a result of his recordings being really good for their time, when his was often the only quality recording you could find at your local record store. His Prokofiev, Janacek, Dvorak, Mahler, Shostakovich... it's all so standard. Competently done, but standard. idk
>>126733505sounds like a soundtrack to some 1950s sci-fi film, but in a good way.
>>126733505me on the left
and yes orchestrated Scriabin sounds great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbzMPE8pVys
There was one recording which had a few orchestrated performances on it but I can't seem to find it anymore
>>126735503If you want to be put asleep just listen to Brahms.
>>126735918https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZ_cKD_6Z4&list=PL0kMNfJiOV4iZuYLY9Enmhflyw36DIrAA&index=38
>Symphonies you should know every note by heart
Beethoven 3
Beethoven 9
Brahms 3
Brahms 4
Tchaikovsky 6
Schubert 9
Dvorak 9
Mozart 40
Mozart 41
>>126735796Muti is by far the best in that one
>>126735796I like Klemperer because he brings out a lot of details that no other conductor does.
What's the difference between a Prelude and a Fugue?
>>126736376nta -- I'll be giving that one a listen, thanks
>>126737205https://www.google.com/
>>126737480I went there and the first result was 4chan.org/mu/classical/
>>126737205Prelude is just a short piece that serves as introduction. Fugue is a polyphonic form, which uses imitative counterpoint. Meaning it has multiple melodies of equal worth (not merely accompaniments, like chords) played simultaneously, imitating each other, with slight variations and development. They are harmonically dependant(sounding good together), but rhythmic and melodic contour is free so they differ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFt7FAxdaBM
>>126737593Thank you. So a Prelude can be and do anything?
It's already a quarter of a century. Where are all the new -isms? One hundred years ago we had so many new -isms. Did postmodernism engulf everything?
8-bit music from 1840 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVGcjBB3UlM
>>126737803>Where are all the new -isms? In the past. We're in decline now.
>>126737803Pluralism. That's it.
Yeah, we were all recommended that faggy youtube video about that garbage piece, no need to remind us
>>126737872>garbage(NTA) Why? I like it. Also kek it was recommended to me as well
>>126737913Idk, I just don't think pre-Chopin etudes are worth listening. They're always just an exercise/gimmick, but here, the "lyrical" parts sound uninspired, and the transitions are clunky.
>>126737927This etude is from 1840 whereas Chopin's op.10 is from 1932. I like it because it's so unique especially for its time. It's full of energy, hypnotic rhythm, and really sounds like 8-bit music. It's not very melodic but that's not the point.
>>126737944>1932.1832* bruh. Actually published in 33. So before Alkan's.
>>126737944What I meant with pre-Chopin wasn't necessarily tied to chronology, but method. Alkan was clearly on his own path, but composers that came after and were influenced by Chopin directly started writing etudes with more musical "substance". That's what I meant. But sure, while it's an interesting piece, it's one where I go "that's cool" and don't really want to listen to it anymore.
>>126733119 (OP)Best (album) versions of Il trovatore and La traviata? Just looking for audio recordings, so the stage performance and production (if there was one) doesn't matter here.
>>126737852>>126737823Are you telling me we'll never have another Apollonian period in music?
>>126738256Apollonians walked so that Romantics could run.
>>126738256We may, but in the far future. We are currently in decline, heading towards times similar to the dark ages or the middle ages. Renaissance-like period will follow shortly after.
>>126738363if by "decline" you mean an era of sorting out all the theoretical problems relating to music I would agree.
>>126738411I mean intellectual and cultural decline. We can barely solve anything anymore, let alone innovate.
>>126738451decline is a meme. The possibilities of music are very far from being exhausted and I have no trouble coming up with new ideas.
dutton
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>>126738483>decline is a meme.Only if you're ignorant.
>The possibilities of music are very far from being exhaustedNo one said they're exhausted.
>>126738500>Edward Duttonfortunately, none of my ancestors were from the lower classes and I can trace them back to the Victorian era but I doubt Dutton's theories are true anyway.
>>126738552>Dutton's theoriesThey aren't even his. He merely put them together. All great thinkers including Darwin have predicted intellectual decline. I suggest you read his book, and it will leave you with no doubts. You will be able to draw parallels to art, and how it affected music from every possible angle.
>>126738256What does that mean, in concrete musical terms?
>>126738586I doubt it because there is certainly a caste of European professionals (engineers, doctors, etc.) that has not degraded since circa 1900. That is the caste I belong to and if anything it has systematically weeded out its weaker elements since then.
read Bernard Shaw.
Is it me or does the first movement of Mahler 4 sound slightly mozartian at points? Was that intentional to facilitate a child character to the piece? If so, pretty smart if i say so myself.
hq720
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Why does he like CPE Bach, Haydn, and Rossini so much?
>>126738669he's also a big fan of Dvorak.
>>126738675That too, yeah.
>>126738669why do you keep posting him here
>>126738629>caste of European professionals (engineers, doctors, etc.) that has not degraded since circa 1900It actually has, but not in a way you'd expect. There is certainly some progress still, and even some innovation, but not to the extent of 19th century. And it is progressively worsening, the caste of European professionals you're refering to do not reproduce, or do not reproduce at the same rate as the lower, working class. When this happens for an extended period of time, we get less geniuses and highly intelligent people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXkr1YheXk
What's more interesting is how the class fertility changes, creativity and innovation per capita correlate strongly with simple reaction times, color discrimination, use of high-difficulty words, backward digit span, spatial perception and more (all very good proxies for general intelligence, and some of them, such as SRT are measured since 1800s).
>read Bernard Shaw.Which book you'd recommend?
>>126733119 (OP)>Ignores the repeatsShit ass performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cyGOXbxIw0
>>126738723brown people and lower-class whites are just leeches who will wither on the vine when the lights go out and they have no access to food.
>Which book you'd recommend?Major Barbara. It was not promoted as such, but it is a play about the future of industrial society and eugenics.
>>126738719I don't? This is only my second post ever regarding him.
>>126738719/classical/ is outer /hurwitz/.
>>126738669Because they're just as good as your Mozarts and Wagners and underrated, relatively speaking. No one means CPE when they say 'Bach'.
>>126739196>No one means CPE when they say 'Bach'Yeah because his father is much better.
>underratedThat word is overused. CPE Bach, Haydn, and Rossini are perfectly rated. They're not as good as Mozart or Wagner.
>>126739324CPE was just as good as JS, arguably even better. And Haydn is definitely the genius of classical era. He came up with the sonata form, so there's no contest. Only Beethoven outsmarted him by manipulating forms in more ways than previously imagined. No one is "perfectly rated".
>>126739324Haydn was better than Mozart at the symphony, piano sonatas, the quartet, and non-opera vocal music.
>>126739100that's double the lethal amount
>>126739394>CPE was just as good as JS, arguably even bettercomplete retardation
>>126739416>at the symphonystrong case for it
>piano sonatasdebatable, I disagree
>the quartetdebatable, I disagree 2
>non-opera vocal musicagreed. I love Mozart's masses but Haydn's are generally superior.
>>126739483Bach had decades to come up with something new, but did nothing except his usual fugues. CPE revolutionized harmony. How is that retarded?
Chopin's and Alkan's cello sonata. Dave really loves it, he has two videos about the record
Let's try both (Chopin first):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5B6B8LPks&list=OLAK5uy_mUhS9wR18zzcWgXrOOsPq50CTmZI4cqO8&index=5
>>126739496>quality=innovationlol
Man, why did so few symphonists do what Mahler and Bruckner did? If the symphony is truly a worthy artform then it should be as grand as the opera in scale and not be limited to light 40 minutes slop pieces
Bruckner 2 is a good symphony, why do people always say it's one of his weaker ones? I think it's way more consistent than his third.
>>126739394>CPE was just as good as JSHow so?
>arguably even better'Arguably' is a strong word. You're going to have to argue it very well
>And Haydn is definitely the genius of classical era. He came up with the sonata form, so there's no contestHaydn is very influential, a great composer, and highly regarded, mostly for inventing the symphony and string quartet. But he certainly didn't "cope up with the sonata form". He helped develop and standardize it, along with Mozart (balance) and Beethoven (expansion), but CPE Bach, JC Bach, and Stamitz were already using forms that resemble sonata form.
>No one is "perfectly rated".Those three are. It's completely fair and reasonable they're rated as being a tier below composers like Mozart or Wagner.
>>126739416This is all very debatable.
Putting Mozart on the same tier as Wagner is laughable
>>126740225I think B3 is the better work as a whole (definitely has a much better first movement) but I do really like the slow movement of B2.
>>126740455yes you need to really underrate Mozart to do that
>>126740455True, Wagner is trash
>>126740500>>126740506Come on, Wagner is good. I think he's as much a genius as Mozart in different fields. Just because he has an obnoxious cult around him shouldn't take away from his music.
>>126740543What's Wagner's best String Quartet?
I know it's very popular to hate Brendel, but when he was good, he was really good. RIP
>>126740176Intimated by their genius, presumably.
>>126740176Why does something have to be big to be good?
>>126740549His focus was on the Opera. A composer can be highly focused on one thing or he can do a lot of things well. I don't think the former is an issue if the composer makes genuine masterpieces in the form that he chooses, which Wagner did.
>>126740588More narrative space to express wider ranges of emotion. A Mahler symphony is truly like the world, as he describes himself
>>126740610He wrote 13 operas, 4 of which are good. That's a pretty bad ratio of success.
>>126740633he has 10 good operas
>>126740653Der Ring, Parsifal, Meistersinger, and Tristan are the only good ones. The rest are boring trash
>>126740657the ring is 4 operas
Dutchman Tannhauser and Lohengrin are good too
>>126740678>Dutchman Tannhauser and Lohengrin are good tooGood at putting people to sleep
>>126740682https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder
>be me
>feel like giving opera another try
>spend 20 minutes trying to decide on which one to listen to and which recording
>press play and start listening
>"Hey, this opening overture is bomb, there might be something to this..."
>second movement starts
>male opera singing
>pause and change to something else
sigh. maybe someday
>>126740394>How so?As I already explained, more forward thinking, less jerking off to the same rules.
Haydn is the godfather of sonata form as we know it. And I disagree, no one is perfectly rated - that is an impossibility.
let's get choral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAH1z7r3ags&list=OLAK5uy_mq1Fdg_6aDLq7EXB9XynA3aGywE7s30Is&index=1
Give me some wagner recordings in stereo with good singing that doesnt go
>AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAa
>>126741003Just listen to baroque opera. It's better anyway.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fMuZUC18gDs&pp=ygUTR2xlbiBnb3VsZCBzY3JpYWJpbg%3D%3D
>>126740920Happens every time, females are just as bad for me
Verdi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNSIhjMMdrA
>>126741059>Can you provide me with [thing]>no you should [other thing]
>>126737593What’s the difference between a toccata and a prelude?
>>126738629The pathetic loner is the son (or daughter) of an Indian doctor immigrant confirmed
>>126724591>>126713678>>126712758>>126712506Like dark chocolate, atonal music is an acquired taste.
>>126733296Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFG70gFbvOg
>>126741352There’s a Freudian subtext to this post
>>126740394We have lost the plot if we are now saying Wagner is better than Haydn.
>>126738723Just from a layman’s perspective this not a very fair chart since in 1900 the population was 1.6 billion which is just slightly more than todays Indian population. I’m fact the population increase is nearly entirely in Asia and it’s never happened in human history and it’s caused by innovation.
Secondly you have in 1400 you have horse drawn cart, 300 years later you: horse drawn cart. Whereas in 1900 you have engine on 4 bicycle wheels chugging along at 8 miles, slightly over 100 years later you have rocket ships deploying drones on Mars that link video back to earth.
Bach
Mozart
Bruckner
Scriabin
Webern
all I need
>>126741370Anything and everything in this thread has Freudian subtext.
>>126741001Renaissance polyphony is a world unto itself. Ponder the following quote:
>Few periods in the history of western music have produced so many composers of the first rank as the several decades before and after 1500
Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner.
Did Scriabin know you could use more than one chord
>>126741881No. Just like he didn't know you could do something other than a slavish attachment to sonata form
Yoshelot
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>>126741125>Glen Gould plowing your mum's ass
Scriabin sisters...not like this
thoughts on Haydn's Symphony no.45?
>>126742321why would someone so ugly show their faces online?
Cкpябин 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdug6iIsV1Q&ab_channel=ElinaAkselrud
>>126742390Been a while since I had a Sturm und Drang binge but I love it. I remember Scherchen having a particularly distinctive recording.
>>126740543Mahoanon, who's your top orchestral Mozart recommendation again? Was it Suitner?
>Playing Chopin Ballade No. 4 in F minor at an unhurried pace
What's your problem my guy?
>>126742581I had the same video recommended to me by jewtube. I skipped to his awful coda and turned it off immediately.
>>126742409He's not even close to being ugly for the internet, he's not bad looking
>>126743012bitch you're fucking blind
>>126743048NTA but if he's really that low on your scale for male attractiveness then I can only assume you're living in a eugenic colony.
Franck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLa-JVabSdY
>>126743107All the greats are here: Rachamaninoff, Debussy and F-Frank
IMG_1269
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Rest easy.
>>126743107Mengelberg was really the best accompanist of the 20th century. The Debussy is even better.
>>126743070I live in a world where people's pubes are on their balls, not their chin.
what Mass in B minor has the best soloists (no hiss shit, please)?
>>126740682They're easily his most entertaining operas. Who the hell finds them more boring than five-hour Meistersinger? Plus I like the pretty melodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWBA42pZ4-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96OD33aogRc
>>126741326I'll post a timestamp if you want. some of the posters here actually are upper-class whites believe it or not.
>>126743270RIP he had a good recording somewhere I'm sure
>>126743270literally who?
now playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jvoWyclwM
>>126744833i guess the Richter one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhVlcvlt2M
>>126744833i like scherchen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLyOdg6CrYM
Baloo, my babe, lie still and sleep;
It grieves me sore to see thee weep.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNshZQO2CO4&list=PLs2vq238vU6mmGdoT6vuWaUXu7A7ZG2ZA&index=1&pp=iAQB8AUB0gcJCdQJAYcqIYzv
Not quite sure what Baloo means
>>126747039Interesting but way too slow and diffusive.
best complete Haydn String Quartets?
>>126743270RIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFTre3vq6Tg
>>126740988>explainedWhere?
>more forward thinkingBach was extremely forward thinking in many aspects.
>less jerking off to the same rulesWhat 'rules'?
>>126733119 (OP)what does /classical/ think of Sculthorpe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqj1_ILyA
>>126741385Yes yes, Wagner bad, now clap.
>>126742529Karl Böhm is my favorite overall conductor of Mozart. Sadly he didn't do many of his piano concertos, so for those I tend to go for Kurt Masur and Annerose Schmidt's recording, that one is my favorite complete-ish set. If I feel a bit more HIP that particular day, maybe Hogwood and Levin as the improvisational angle of those recordings is fun.
Isn't Wagner rather underrated among the general populace? I mean, aside from Neo-Nazis and the occult circles that Wagnerians move in.
Are there any more symphonies formatted like Tchaikovsky's fourth or Mendelssohn's Scottish symphony where the first movement makes up the bulk of the symphony?
>>126748990Bruckner or Mahler probably did that at least once.
>>126748979He is a household name, even my rockist boomer dad knows who he is and he has almost no knowledge of classical music at all. As far as people actually listening to him, yeah that is difficult. Wagner's "no numbers" philosophy ironically lead to his work being a lot harder to appreciate by the general populace, even compared to symphonists who were inspired by him like Bruckner and Mahler.
Generally, people like musical works to be smaller sections of musical thought that make up a cohesive whole rather than a giant singular musical statement. Wagner decided to make 4 hour long works that can't really be split up into digestable smaller segments that you can isolate, even the individual acts have little to no musical seperation and are way too long to appreciate on their own. This also makes it difficult to use in concert settings, because aside from overtures/preludes, there aren't many ways to perform works by Wagner in a standard concert setting like you could for any other opera. Der Holle Rache can be performed individually inbetween two symphonies in a concert and it would work quite well, as can any other aria from that opera. Good luck trying to find something like that from the ring cycle that can do that besides MAYBE Ride of the Valkyries. It's why "wagner concerts" are a constant stream of preludes, interludes and more preludes.
I am not saying this makes wagner bad, just that it makes wagner harder to appreciate for most people.
>>126749032>He is a household name, even my rockist boomer dad knows who he isI'm really surprised to hear that. I've never met a single non-classical fan that knows who he is.
>Good luck trying to find something like that from the ring cycle that can do that besides MAYBE Ride of the Valkyries.What about the so-called 'bleeding chunks'? Entrance of the Gods, Magic Fire, Forest Murmurs, Siegfried's Rhein Journey and Death and maybe a few more. But in general I agree with you.
>>126749032Wagner (PBUH) is understood only by the most esoteric Logierians.
>>126741881>Scriabin, however, did not use the chord directly but rather derived material from its transpositions.
Who is the Bruckner of every country? I mean less in style and more in personality. I really like his unpretentious nature, and him just being a simple hick who wrote music because he loved God. It makes his work really endearing to me. Which I rarely find in most other composers. Especially from the east.
>>126749308>caring about biographical details over the musiccringe
>>126749314I care about the music. But the composer's life definitely impacts the music to some degree.
Take Schoenberg for example. Imagine, say, his string trio
So it being written by an autistic jew who wanted to advance the tradition gives it one vibe
Now imagine it being written by a serial killer and the piece is meant to capture the sound of his victims, the piece suddenly becomes way different in character
>>126734517>>126741500Supremely based taste.
>>126749308for America it's probably Roy Harris.
>Mahler
>Bruckner
>Chopin
>Wagner
>Grieg
>Mozart
Is the LoGH soundtrack /classical/ approved?
>>126749842Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya also contains Mahler excerpts. Japs seem to like his music quite a bit.
>>126749849>Japs seem to like his music quite a bit.I really don't know why.
>>126749881The colorfulness is quite Asian.
>>126749881Might be because his music has a sense of narrative progression to it which resonates with japs a lot. For example JPOP (I know, not classical) notoriously uses more complex progressions and modulation compared to any other nation's pop music. Their soundtracks are also war more often symphonic in the modern day compared to the west which has adopted Hans Zimmer fart noises.
>>126749899Sounds like a rather odd statement to me.
>>126749903But narrative progression in itself isn't necessary for complex progressions and modulations.
>>126749050>What about the so-called 'bleeding chunks'? Entrance of the Gods, Magic Fire, Forest Murmurs, Siegfried's Rhein Journey and Death and maybe a few moreThese often don't really feel like full pieces and don't work in isolation that well if you never saw the opera's they're from. At least an overture works well enough as a standalone symphonic movement that Liszt created an entire genre that's essentially just overtures without an opera. But the Ring doesn't have any real overtures either besides sorta half-overtures of 5 minutes max.
>>126749939>But narrative progression in itself isn't necessary for complex progressions and modulations.Yes, but that is how the Japs use it for their music. The average JPOP song utilizes it's complexity far better than, say, Jacob Collier
Though this is turning into a >>>/mu/ discussion. This'd better be a seperate thread
If I like Bruckner, should I listen to Meistersinger, Tristan or Parsifal?
>>126749966Probably Tristan, but don't take my word for it, I'm not a big fan of Bruckner or Wagner.
Mahler 7 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnVTw4m1dy8&list=OLAK5uy_niOJgm60_aTw_7IOnesT_j7RANXmHaUOI&index=1
>>126749966Parsifal imo sounds the closest to Bruckner, but then again Tristan was responsible for inspiring Bruckner to be a symphonist. Meistersinger is so comical and light-hearted and 'pretty', and does that describe any of Bruckner's music?
>>126750002>Meistersinger is so comical and light-hearted and 'pretty', and does that describe any of Bruckner's music?Depends, there are some parts in Bruckner where such a nature does come out.
>never listened to parsifal before
>click on random section
>it's the most beautiful music i have ever heard in my life
I am overwhelmed, destroyed, forced to worship at the shrine of Wagner. I understand now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3UsM8-JEwo
>>126750034get the Kubelik recording
Wagnerian Symphonists > Wagner himself
>>126733119 (OP)Piano: 2nd round @ II Rachmaninoff International Competition
just started
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQWSiylFC1c
>>126749998This is actually a really nice 7th. Gonna have to go through the rest of Dudamel's Mahler and recordings.
>>126748979No, prison sister
>>126749104A subtle distinction Wikipedia sister
>>126749636Kek read that as Rolf Harris at first
>>126742581kek, I have that in my recommendations right now.
I'm not really interested in hearing someone play Chopin's Ballade sans any technical chops, though
Does /mu/ think classical is dead as a genre, as whole?
i love Wagner's Rienzi Overture, is the rest of the Opera worth listening to? if so what is the best recording?
>>126751016>is the rest of the Opera worth listening to?no
>>126750980I'd guess most of the standard repertoire will be played for the next centuries to come, but it's hard to predict. As for new compositions in genres like the string quartet, the piano sonata or orchestral pieces... should we wish for those at all? Obsolete genres are obsolete.
>>126751094>. As for new compositions in genres like the string quartet, the piano sonata or orchestral pieces... should we wish for those at all? Obsolete genres are obsolete.So, you say yes?
Obviously the old music is still being performed so it's alive in that sense. But I really mean is good classical music still being created
>>126751168Maybe someone out there is writing great music right now. Since literally every era of western classical music has produced first rate composers it'd be naive to think none exist today.
>>126751232But you don't know of any?
>>126751259Kevin Puts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RIVIhRYGg
Carl Vine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcGBPjaeInI
Zhao Jiping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk6D9M4W4MA
Arturo Márquez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ynC1RB3kY
Per Nørgård (recently died, RIP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m30jiRNEKPc
Unsuk Chin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVSJtkNtTc
>>126751352The name Unsuk Chin amuses me
>>126750980It's not a genre.
went to lookup and listen to Bavouzet's Ravel set and turns out he's released a new one just this year, serendipitous timing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMOlsw2_P8&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ocsPwA7ReU&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTLKDJ3ukOI&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=4
Easily some of the best performances of these three famous Ravel pieces I've ever heard, and I'm sure the rest of the set will continue to deliver. Give it a try.
>>126751660i knew i'd get that response
>>126751352>Kevin Putswhat
>>126751752Zhao Jiping is the Chinese form of the name Kevin Puts
>>126751774Oh fug, I got the Kevin Puts and Zhao Jiping links mixed up, my bad.
Sokolov's Chopin Piano Sonata No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ztIJ42DBE
>>126751750So you know the truth, congratulations.
anyone else just mindlessly hate composers they've never heard of or just me?
>>126752600That reminds me, I should check out Sokolov's Chopin sonata no.3, I think it's entirely within "his style" and I expect nothing but a great performance
>>126753558Any modern composer. But I wouldn't say 'mindlessly'.
Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaphYIT6FMs
>>126753621>That reminds me, I should check out Sokolov's Chopin sonata no.3, I think it's entirely within "his style" and I expect nothing but a great performanceThere doesn't seem to be a traditional release with it, weird. The third piano sonata of Beethoven, Brahms, and Scriabin, yes, but no Chopin outside of some live recordings with dubious origins on Youtube. Sad. Still, if you don't mind that, then yeah, should be good.
>>126751728Not to go begging for (You)s, why is it no one has ever replied to any of my Ravel piano set posts outside of the one time someone vilified Perlemuter for being a J -- are there no Ravel fans here or something? I thought some of ya'll masturbated at the altar of Gaspard de la nuit and hummed Bolero and La Valse in the shower? No one here likes any of his stuff beyond those, particularly the stuff on solo piano?
>>126754722That's clever -- I am!
>>126750980absolutely not. people are just talentless, uninspired, and tasteless.
now playing
start of Dvořák: Symphony No. 5 in F, Op. 76
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqNGHs02j5c&list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4&index=23
start of Dvořák: Symphony No. 7 in D minor, Op. 70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1X1jyuzREg&list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4&index=26
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4
>>126754674I simply never listened to him. Do some mozart posting and I'll happily reply.
speaking of Mozart, looked up some Piano Sonata sets for some new ones to try and saw Hewitt just released another recording for her cycle. What an ugly cover for such a big name pianist. Hopefully it's good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU12io01Gwo&list=OLAK5uy_m27j5lZUQm8mWQYygEa34KSCIscCrlPDQ&index=1
>Hyperion presents the final volume in Angela Hewitt's traversal of the complete Mozart Piano Sonatas, recorded on her beloved Fazioli piano. This double-album's treasures include the K545 "Sonate facile," loved by millions of piano students worldwide. Alongside are the clever and witty Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je, maman" (known in the English-speaking world as "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star") and Mozart's very last piano sonatas. This is Angela's 50th release on the label, marking a monumental milestone in her 31 years (and counting!) as an esteemed Hyperion artist. 2 CD set.
Beethoven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvbPOq4-Cg
>mfw
What Made Alfred Brendel Larger Than Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZPltJ_l85E
I don't understand the importance of a good conductor. Can you guys give me examples of the same piece being conducted by a good and a bad conductor so I can hear the difference?
>>126755692Since good and bad vary from person to person, I'll instead post examples where the difference in the conductor and their vision is readily apparent and obvious:
Toscanini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKB80dZLxQU
Klemperer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DvRFpJha2k
Chailly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MpIHLtXm-A
Karajan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQOfydpwM8Y
DONNA
You can take your Pablo Casals, you can keep your Rostopovich, I say Yo-Yo Ma rules.
>>126748970>Annerose SchmidtAh right, that's why I vaguely remembered Suitner coming up. Thanks for the rec.
>>126755734I think I like Klemperer the most. The main difference I notice is the tempo. I don't know music theory, so I don't know what else to look out for.
>>126755979Tempo, the way the orchestra plays (though part of that is on the orchestra itself, the conductor plays a large part [note the fullness of Klemperer and Karajan versus Chailly]), repeats, and how they play specific notes, bars, and moments, which all add up to working in service of a specific vision, and the question is if their vision and their way of going about it works for you. So, no music theory knowledge needed, all that matters is which sounds the best to you and resonates in your heart and soul the most. That's the effect of the conductor.
>>126755997Why I like Klemperer's version is because whenever there's a build up, it just seems to have weight to it. It actually seems like an effort to get to the climax (or whatever it's called). Other versions sort of give it to you too easily.
>>126756101Yeah Klemperer's 3rd is an all-timer. But yeah, see, you get it, those are the differences the conductor makes.
And thus begins your journey of caring about the specific recording and the performers (conductor/orchestra/soloists) :)
Personally I think it's fine having multiple favorite recordings because sometimes I like hearing pieces done in different ways (for example, for the 3rd, sometimes I like hearing it performed with a faster tempo with taut and agile playing), so I don't see the purpose of listening to new recordings as to find the ultimate best one and discard the rest into the recycle bin, but most here are like that, so you do you.
>>126755734I wonder if Danny Elfman got some of his ideas for the 89 Batman theme from this
I wonder why that Russian uses a toothpick as a baton
>>126756284I wonder why you're so retarded.
now playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89h2Mk9U6tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U6VReqbZCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGY8dPYAts
>>126756454Never even heard of this composer but he’ll have to wait till later
>>126756809here you go
https://youtu.be/F3e0Nim9XuM
>Maya Beiser>Maya Beiser x Terry Riley: In C>For Those Who Like: Steve Reich, cellos, magic mushrooms>The Story: It's pretty gutsy to take on a revered, pioneering piece of minimalism designed for a couple dozen people to play and reduce it to only a stack of cello loops and a pair or percussionists. But cellist Maya Beiser has triumphed, releasing one of the most groove-laden and listenable renditions of In C, Terry Riley's enduring 60-year-old score. And it's fitting that Beiser deploys loops for her version, given that the seeds of In C were sown in Riley's earlier experiments in cutting and looping tape.>The Music: Beiser's vision is all about pulses, drones and the low C string of her instrument, which tends to ricochet off drummers Shane Shanahan and Matt Kilmer. She likes to unfurl long, singing cello lines over oscillating beats, creating grooves with the power to intoxicate or get you wired for an all-night road trip. In one section, she interleaves her voice with cello in a nod to the medieval vocal technique of hocketing. In another, she distorts her instrument and amps up the beat, creating a kind of headbanging grunge moment. Along the way, Beiser cuts the engine to provide a couple of calming rest stops.https://www.npr.org/2024/12/06/nx-s1-5220085/npr-best-classical-albums-2024
>>126756827Good stuff. In C is very fun to play with chamber groups. It's what made Chamber Music click for me.
>>126756881>It's what made Chamber Music click for meYou didn't like any string quartets or the like by Mozart or Beethoven until you heard Terry Riley's In C?
>>126756922Also I didn't just hear In C. Actually experiencing it with a Chamber group will give you a whole new sight on how much of a masterpiece it is.
>>126756967I'm not much of an RYMsister so I'll have to take your word for it.
>>126756881>>126756967I imagine all of that would also be true for Messian's Quartet of the End of Time
>>126757282I like his autistic obsession with birdsong.
>>126753558The entirety of this general does this.
>>126749947>These often don't really feel like full pieces and don't work in isolation that well if you never saw the opera's they're from.Didn't Wagner successfully perform them in concerts all around Europe? I remember reading about Tchaikovsky hearing Wagner conduct the Liebestod and later being disappointed when he heard it in performance with singing.
explain why rach is bad without using slurs or being nationalistic
>>126760645uhhhh he just IS OKAY???????
>>126760645How can you explain that something good is bad? The common fallacies when criticizing Rach include: bad counterpoint (he can handle 4 voice counterpoint perfectly btw), bad form (his form is as good as Mozart's, the "problem" is not that it's bad, but not innovative for modernist circlejerk), and no innovation, which is quite laughable, as any sort of innovation after early 20th century has led to nothing but ugliness and downfall of classical music pretty much. Rachmaninoff is god tier (high S tier) melodist, and that alone scares the krautslopper who probably jerks off to Simon Sechter. His structural brilliance and seamless harmonic flow exceeds expectations from 20th century sloppers. To claim otherwise is no different than to claim late Beethoven isn't good, you are moving into post-modernist, subjective nonsense territory. Both can be justified by pseudo-reasoning, but neither can be justified by logic and common sense.
List of the greatest composers:
Bach
Mozart
Wagner
Rachmaninoff
Schoenberg
>>126760771>post-modernist,Philosophical movement is implied.
>>126760784Bro tried to sneak Rachmaninoff in there, LOL!
List of the greatest composers:
Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Scriabin
Rachmaninoff
Schostakovich
>List of the greatest composers:
>Chopin
>Tchaikovsky
>Mahler
>Sibelius
>Rachmaninoff
>>126760645>overreliance on formulaic lyricism>limited harmonic language>excessive emotional directness>virtuosity as an end in itself>historical redundancy
>>126760784Bro tried to sneak Schoenberg in there, LOL!
>>126760912>>overreliance on formulaic lyricism>>excessive emotional directnessLyricism is the soul of music. Might as well criticize Mozart, Chopin and Schubert for the same reasons. Nonsensical argument.
>>limited harmonic languageScriabin's harmonic language isn't better, original =! better.
>>virtuosity as an end in itselfIf that was the case, Rach could write unplayble music and 12ths all over the place. A lot of his music is actually pretty easy for beginners (e.g. his famous c# minor prelude). And same argument can be applied to any other composer, Beethoven's sonatas are excessively virtuosic and sometimes harder than most Rach.
>>historical redundancyAs is all music today? Lol. There is no great innovation anymore, we are in cultural and intellectual decline. Modernists did not innovate in any serious manner. It's safe to say Beethoven and Wagner were the last major innovators.
He is criticized because he's more popular than his contemporaries. It's like if SaIieri (Schoenberg) had fans that were jealous of Mozart's (Rachmaninoff's) supremacy
How can you listen to this and not believe in God?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPAiH9XhTHc
>>126761164Bach himself was an atheist
IMG_2592
md5: d0c9f486afcb2874f6a837e12a09daa7
🔍
>>126761213Nope, you're lying for whatever reason I don't know.
>>126761229I'm not lying.
>>126761237You are, which is proven through the pic I posted, a photo I made in the museum of Bach's birthplace in Eisenach. And even without such information: you just have to listen to a single Bach note and already realize that that was not composed by an atheist man.
>>126761256That pic proves absolutely nothing though?
>such informationThe information can be inaccurate, dummy.
>single Bach note and already realize that that was not composed by an atheist man.Shostakovich was as atheist, or are you denying that too? His music can be equally as charming. I know you're trolling, but still.
>>126761327It's a reputable source, a much more trustworthy source than an anonymous atheist shitposter like you.
>>126761335>It's a reputable sourceAny "reputable" source can be wrong.
>than an anonymous atheist shitposter like you.It's not just me. There's concrete logic to support it.
>>126761351You have made a claim (Bach is an atheist), provided absolutely zero sources or proofs for said claim. I made a counter-claim and provided a reputable source. I will let others decide who to trust.
>>126760985>Nonsensical argument.Not at all. Lyricism is a part of music, but I'm talking about OVERRELIANCE. It's a valid critique. Mozart, Chopin, and Schubert never fell into that trap because their lyricism is integrated into highly sophisticated forms, motivic development, and structural variety. Rachmaninoff too often leans on broad, sweeping, sentimental melodies without the same level of developmental rigor. Too much of one device, however beautiful in isolation, becomes repetitive and uninteresting across works.
>Scriabin's harmonic language isn't better, original =! better.The question isn't simply "better" or "worse", that's quite subjective, but rather about variety and exploration. Rachmaninoff largely remains within a narrower late-Romantic idiom. Scriabin is basically Rachmaninoff but more = clearly more interesting and varied. Rachmaninoff = less varied = limited.
>c# minor preludeFirstly, you don't know what "for beginners" means. Try an early Mozart minuet, not that. As for virtuosity: you're missing the point. It's not about writing "the hardest possible music", but using virtuosity as a gesture and substance, as a kind of content in itself. Compare that with Chopin or Scriabin, where virtuosity is more tightly fused to the musical substance rather than being a self-repeating surface effect.
>>>historical redundancyI'm referring to his position within his own time, not today. He was already redundant back then. And no, Beethoven and Wagner were not the "last major innovators", whatever that means. Entirely new developments occurred in orchestration (this is a big one), rhythm, harmony, and texture well into the 20th century. Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Schoenberg, Bartók, and others radically expanded the language of music.
>>126761381>provided absolutely zero sources or proofs for said claim.You never asked.
Educated and knowledgeable biographers like John Eliot Gardiner and Christoph Wolff support the fact Bach was a devout Christian and not an atheist. To quote some passages from their biographies respectively:
>Religion was central not just to his upbringing and his education but to the locus of his employment and to his general outlook on life. For him it went beyond dogma, having a practical as well as a spiritual application, and was underpinned by reason.
>The dedication of his art to God’s glory was not confined to signing off his church cantatas with the acronym S[oli] D[eo] G[loria]; the motto applied with equal force to his concertos, partitas and instrumental suites.
(from Bach : Music in the Castle of Heaven)
>Bach annotated in his study Bible Abraham Calov’s commentary... writing in the margin: ‘NB. A splendid demonstration that… music has been mandated by God’s spirit.’
>...the ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ at the end of Bach’s scores provides vivid testimony to his own stand in this respect.
>He also grasped the metaphysical dimension of music, as we can deduce from another marginal comment in his Calov Bible... ‘As the glory of the Lord appeared upon the beautiful music’... Bach added his own comment: ‘NB.
(from: Johann Sebastian Bach : the learned musician)
Did wagner write any operas in the same style as Hollander in his late period?
>>126761462>Educated and knowledgeable biographers like John Eliot Gardiner and Christoph Wolff support the fact Bach was a devout ChristianNo shit. Sky is blue as well. Who is dumb enough to argue the contrary in the first place that motivated you to make this post at all?
>>126761417>OVERRELIANCEDefine it.
>their lyricism is integrated into highly sophisticated forms, motivic development, and structural variety. Absolutely same goes for Rachmaninoff. Your lack of exposure to his music and some other biases are showing.
>without the same level of developmental rigor. Rachmaninoff's contrapuntal development is far superior to Schubet's and farily superior to Chopin's. You are pulling all this out of your arse.
>that's quite subjective,I disagree.
>Rachmaninoff largely remains within a narrower late-Romantic idiom.Except it isn't narrow at all. It's like saying Bach's harmony is "narrow". This is all pseudointellectual nonsense. And you fell for it.
>you don't know what "for beginners" means. Try an early Mozart minuet, not that. I'm just pointing out how beginners often start with Rach pieces and succesfully pull them off.
>but using virtuosity as a gesture and substance, as a kind of content in itself. Except that isn't the case with Rachmaninoff. He uses advanced techniques to develop textures. This is not merely a "virtuosic show off". And doesn't explain his orchestral output, where is virtuosity in his symphonies? In Isle of the Dead? In the Bells? Your argument falls apart right there.
>I'm referring to his position within his own time, not today. Many great composers weren't recognized in their own time either. Anyway, this has nothing to do with the quality of his music anyway.
>Beethoven and Wagner were not the "last major innovators",Oh yes they were. The innovations that occured after were not nearly as substantial.
>>126760645Emotionally dishonest
>>126761213There were no atheists back then
>>126761823There were atheists since Ancient Greece.
>>126761960Historically inaccurate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagoras_of_Melos
Furthermore, I'd also argue and die on the hill that Democritus, Leucippus and even Epicurus were all atheist. Protagoras was technically agnostic (like Epicurus, in some sense), but that can be translated to "atheist but not informed enough". Furthermore, atheism existed in Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia.
feels like a Schubert 9 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_v-cywSjng&list=OLAK5uy_lFSSUjLDDiHWSC9D4gSKefsNEiQGZBp4k&index=1
Between his symphonies, string quartets, and piano sonatas, man, Schubert really loves his repeats. It's fine because his themes and melodies tend to be among the best ever composed, but man, when he likes something he wrote, he tries to get everything out of it, and then some!
>>126762058Historically illiterate
>>126755692A good way to think about it is comparing a conductor to a translator of literature. I'm sure you'd agree different translations have a completely distinct result, even if the underlying source material and meanings are the same, the equivalent of performing from the same notes. Every translation and performance comes with myriad decisions, all of which affect the color, mood, flavor, meanings, music, rhythm, emotion, and length of the text and music.
Got-DAMN this is a leisurely, slow tempo performance of Beethoven's 7th String Quartet, never heard anything like it lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7FYWwFJGYM
Generally, performing these middle quartets are all about emphasizing the verve and dancing melodic lines, so hearing it performed this way is quite a shock. Gotta respect it tho
>>126762539>no uI accept your concession.
Any suggestions for a highly expressive, romantic set of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas? Barenboim's and Gilels' are in the right vein, but looking for others. Please and thank you.
>>126762750https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-6pIa-33lE&list=OLAK5uy_lMxOHq5YqpzvBpY6aBGmpTESxItA-CQoA&index=4
>>126762750Schnabel or Fischer maybe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRGp4emJjms&list=OLAK5uy_mReC5ncKqG-2fP493DSU8omT9cD2-s2NE&index=5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1nRXxE0oPI&list=PLdY1CsVLZQ3VVcbVzakiTt6auovd6hifO&index=2
>>126762734>No evidenceI accept youjr retardation
>>126762857th-th-thanks...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNkFwOPNxj0
I like painting and listening to Mozart. It makes me feel all classy. :)
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