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Thread 126733119

323 posts 86 images /mu/
Anonymous No.126733119 >>126738120 >>126738782 >>126748834 >>126750201
/classical/
Mozart edition
https://youtu.be/wvouW4v8AII

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh

Previous: >>126712391
Anonymous No.126733144 >>126733187 >>126733235 >>126751188
Is Frederick the Great a good composer, bros?
Anonymous No.126733187 >>126751188
>>126733144
No he's not good
Anonymous No.126733235
>>126733144
Probably not.
Anonymous No.126733243 >>126735190
Glen Gould, Sonata no 5 Cะบpัะฑะธะฝ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-gPU8f-Vc&ab_channel=GlennGould-Topic
Anonymous No.126733296 >>126733404 >>126734565 >>126741363
Tourist here, who are the metalfag's composers? Wagner, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Mahler, Scriabin? I like the cooler, sinister parts of Holst's Planets if that helps.
Anonymous No.126733404
>>126733296
There's a Scarlatti that sounds like metal , I can't really remember which though.

There's also these two pieces by Royer(the rest of his stuff is not worth it and it might be partly the player who makes it sound so thunderous)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMbBYR_lplE&ab_channel=MuzykawRaju

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxlMfUzqIM&ab_channel=WarnerClassics

There's the Iron Foundry music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-yl4aI6xzU&ab_channel=RoyalConcertgebouwOrchestra-Topic

Jon Leifs Hekla and Geysir maybe a few other things
Anonymous No.126733505 >>126733554 >>126735918 >>126735938
Some of the Scriabin Sonatas 5 in particular are crying out to be played by multiple instruments but no one does this, they just keep playing it on the piano leaving it trapped in a very limited sonic register

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3fhzZSGFlU&ab_channel=BradSmith
Anonymous No.126733554
>>126733505
His music sounds surprisingly good on 8-bit.
Anonymous No.126733596 >>126733650
Bless Rachmaninoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxQRkYQ2m0Y&list=OLAK5uy_m7wL-YDk52jdI2btSSg9Rw48mPBYA4nhY&index=5
Anonymous No.126733611
Scriabin my beloved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhAQjqfew2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCcTI4jRY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAIlO9w34o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_7nOxeFi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwj1cCL9Lsg
Anonymous No.126733650 >>126733781
>>126733596
By coincidence I'm listening to him as well, it just came on so I left it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRxHyZDU-Q&ab_channel=whiteocean78
Anonymous No.126733781
>>126733650
Heart-melting adagio. This one's even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_UvVwK1BI
Anonymous No.126734346 >>126734517
Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Schubert. That's all.
Anonymous No.126734517 >>126749495
>>126728578
Neat, but I don't like that e natural passing tone around 0:19.
>>126734346
Szymanowski, Faure, Poulenc, Medtner, Scriabin. That's all.
Anonymous No.126734553 >>126734873
Piano is by far the greatest instrument, everything is better on piano.
Anonymous No.126734565
>>126733296
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM6hgcTfceI
baroque composers
Anonymous No.126734622 >>126735065
we are all fellow jews, here are we not? https://youtu.be/977xqcl8DnE?si=FWIsczssVRFfJmHi
Anonymous No.126734849
Stravinsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOWaOfaewgg
Anonymous No.126734873 >>126735078
>>126734553
So much nicer than guitar. I always thought it was gay as a kid which I really regret now.
Anonymous No.126734945
now playing

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in A Major, D. 664
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuCgLv4vMQ&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=2

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in E-Flat Major, D. 568
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4qRaNtO7xE&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=5

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in A Minor, D. 537
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD601jSRDh8&list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg&index=8

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nvBJ-cuM-Ehc_rUknP8nCcByd76MVYEPg

Paul Lewis' Schubert on a clear, sunny day? yes please
Anonymous No.126735050 >>126735068
so now that the dust has settled, is this the best set of Schumann's string quartets?
Anonymous No.126735065
>>126734622
we aren't Jews but we aren't antisemites either.
Anonymous No.126735068 >>126735074
>>126735050
no
Anonymous No.126735074
>>126735068
ah, the booba set
Anonymous No.126735078
>>126734873
in reality it's the guitarists who by and large, are faggots.
Anonymous No.126735190
>>126733243
blueballingly slow
Anonymous No.126735351
Scriabin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74xmG0LvZdE
Anonymous No.126735503 >>126735511 >>126735563 >>126735689 >>126735953
>3 am and still awake
I hate my insomnia. Classical for this feel?
Anonymous No.126735511
>>126735503
Xenakis
Anonymous No.126735563
>>126735503
Schubert's D.959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCvIhO0Qrvg
Anonymous No.126735689
>>126735503
Faurรฉ's Nocturnes.
Anonymous No.126735706 >>126735768
Dinnerstein's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcyeUBhuqvk&list=OLAK5uy_kjLhPxTpbgujJ5AVN1FIpVdrjVZxMGs6Y&index=1
Anonymous No.126735768
>>126735706
Someday in the future, perhaps decades, this recording will receive the recognition it deserves. Hearing the Goldberg Variations performed like this has the potential power to end wars and cure mental illness.
Anonymous No.126735796 >>126735824 >>126735837 >>126735838 >>126735877 >>126735882 >>126736376 >>126736640
favorite Dvoล™รกk 9 recording? so far mine is Kertesz London, but i haven't heard many others.
Anonymous No.126735824
>>126735796
Dvorak 9 is a piece almost everyone does well, so really just go with your favorite conductor for it. Giulini, Karajan, Kubelik, Dohnanyi, Szell. All great, I'd be happy to listen to any of these and more. That said, if I had to name the absolute best one I've heard, it's Bernstein's (sorry Karajan).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7YaiW6vmPk
Anonymous No.126735837
>>126735796
that one and Rowicki (also with LSO)
Anonymous No.126735838 >>126735842
>>126735796
Anonymous No.126735842 >>126735846
>>126735838
nta -- That one isn't on YouTube Music so I still haven't heard it, sad.
Anonymous No.126735846
>>126735842
it's on regular youtube
Anonymous No.126735877
>>126735796
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PQw15-69Tw
Anonymous No.126735882 >>126735898
>>126735796
Karel Anฤerl/Czech Philharmonic, 1961
Anonymous No.126735898
Dohnanyi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzFjT46lZQc&list=OLAK5uy_nquciNfq1GjqjKN4B0xt_P5ikpd9O14vI&index=1

>>126735882
I'm convinced 99% of the critical acclaim for Ancerl is a result of his recordings being really good for their time, when his was often the only quality recording you could find at your local record store. His Prokofiev, Janacek, Dvorak, Mahler, Shostakovich... it's all so standard. Competently done, but standard. idk
Anonymous No.126735918 >>126735996
>>126733505
sounds like a soundtrack to some 1950s sci-fi film, but in a good way.
Anonymous No.126735938
>>126733505
me on the left

and yes orchestrated Scriabin sounds great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbzMPE8pVys

There was one recording which had a few orchestrated performances on it but I can't seem to find it anymore
Anonymous No.126735953
>>126735503
If you want to be put asleep just listen to Brahms.
Anonymous No.126735996
>>126735918

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZ_cKD_6Z4&list=PL0kMNfJiOV4iZuYLY9Enmhflyw36DIrAA&index=38
Anonymous No.126736028
>Symphonies you should know every note by heart
Beethoven 3
Beethoven 9
Brahms 3
Brahms 4
Tchaikovsky 6
Schubert 9
Dvorak 9
Mozart 40
Mozart 41
Anonymous No.126736376 >>126737218
>>126735796
Muti is by far the best in that one
Anonymous No.126736640
>>126735796
I like Klemperer because he brings out a lot of details that no other conductor does.
Anonymous No.126737205 >>126737480 >>126737593
What's the difference between a Prelude and a Fugue?
Anonymous No.126737218
>>126736376
nta -- I'll be giving that one a listen, thanks
Anonymous No.126737480 >>126737487
>>126737205
https://www.google.com/
Anonymous No.126737487
>>126737480
I went there and the first result was 4chan.org/mu/classical/
Anonymous No.126737593 >>126737672 >>126741284
>>126737205
Prelude is just a short piece that serves as introduction. Fugue is a polyphonic form, which uses imitative counterpoint. Meaning it has multiple melodies of equal worth (not merely accompaniments, like chords) played simultaneously, imitating each other, with slight variations and development. They are harmonically dependant(sounding good together), but rhythmic and melodic contour is free so they differ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFt7FAxdaBM
Anonymous No.126737672 >>126737676
>>126737593
Thank you. So a Prelude can be and do anything?
Anonymous No.126737676
>>126737672
Pretty much.
Anonymous No.126737803 >>126737823 >>126737852 >>126741288
It's already a quarter of a century. Where are all the new -isms? One hundred years ago we had so many new -isms. Did postmodernism engulf everything?
Anonymous No.126737814
8-bit music from 1840 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVGcjBB3UlM
Anonymous No.126737823 >>126738256
>>126737803
>Where are all the new -isms?
In the past. We're in decline now.
Anonymous No.126737852 >>126738256
>>126737803
Pluralism. That's it.
Anonymous No.126737872 >>126737913
Yeah, we were all recommended that faggy youtube video about that garbage piece, no need to remind us
Anonymous No.126737913 >>126737927
>>126737872
>garbage
(NTA) Why? I like it. Also kek it was recommended to me as well
Anonymous No.126737927 >>126737944
>>126737913
Idk, I just don't think pre-Chopin etudes are worth listening. They're always just an exercise/gimmick, but here, the "lyrical" parts sound uninspired, and the transitions are clunky.
Anonymous No.126737944 >>126737950 >>126738115
>>126737927
This etude is from 1840 whereas Chopin's op.10 is from 1932. I like it because it's so unique especially for its time. It's full of energy, hypnotic rhythm, and really sounds like 8-bit music. It's not very melodic but that's not the point.
Anonymous No.126737950
>>126737944
>1932.
1832* bruh. Actually published in 33. So before Alkan's.
Anonymous No.126738115
>>126737944
What I meant with pre-Chopin wasn't necessarily tied to chronology, but method. Alkan was clearly on his own path, but composers that came after and were influenced by Chopin directly started writing etudes with more musical "substance". That's what I meant. But sure, while it's an interesting piece, it's one where I go "that's cool" and don't really want to listen to it anymore.
Anonymous No.126738120
>>126733119 (OP)
Best (album) versions of Il trovatore and La traviata? Just looking for audio recordings, so the stage performance and production (if there was one) doesn't matter here.
Anonymous No.126738256 >>126738341 >>126738363 >>126738621
>>126737852
>>126737823
Are you telling me we'll never have another Apollonian period in music?
Anonymous !aFl5Iovz7M No.126738341
>>126738256
Apollonians walked so that Romantics could run.
Anonymous No.126738363 >>126738411
>>126738256
We may, but in the far future. We are currently in decline, heading towards times similar to the dark ages or the middle ages. Renaissance-like period will follow shortly after.
Anonymous !aFl5Iovz7M No.126738411 >>126738451
>>126738363
if by "decline" you mean an era of sorting out all the theoretical problems relating to music I would agree.
Anonymous No.126738451 >>126738483
>>126738411
I mean intellectual and cultural decline. We can barely solve anything anymore, let alone innovate.
Anonymous !aFl5Iovz7M No.126738483 >>126738500
>>126738451
decline is a meme. The possibilities of music are very far from being exhausted and I have no trouble coming up with new ideas.
Anonymous No.126738500 >>126738552
>>126738483
>decline is a meme.
Only if you're ignorant.
>The possibilities of music are very far from being exhausted
No one said they're exhausted.
Anonymous !aFl5Iovz7M No.126738552 >>126738586
>>126738500
>Edward Dutton

fortunately, none of my ancestors were from the lower classes and I can trace them back to the Victorian era but I doubt Dutton's theories are true anyway.
Anonymous No.126738586 >>126738629
>>126738552
>Dutton's theories
They aren't even his. He merely put them together. All great thinkers including Darwin have predicted intellectual decline. I suggest you read his book, and it will leave you with no doubts. You will be able to draw parallels to art, and how it affected music from every possible angle.
Anonymous No.126738621
>>126738256
What does that mean, in concrete musical terms?
Anonymous !aFl5Iovz7M No.126738629 >>126738723 >>126741326
>>126738586
I doubt it because there is certainly a caste of European professionals (engineers, doctors, etc.) that has not degraded since circa 1900. That is the caste I belong to and if anything it has systematically weeded out its weaker elements since then.

read Bernard Shaw.
Anonymous No.126738666
Is it me or does the first movement of Mahler 4 sound slightly mozartian at points? Was that intentional to facilitate a child character to the piece? If so, pretty smart if i say so myself.
Anonymous No.126738669 >>126738675 >>126738719 >>126739196
Why does he like CPE Bach, Haydn, and Rossini so much?
Anonymous No.126738675 >>126738679
>>126738669
he's also a big fan of Dvorak.
Anonymous No.126738679
>>126738675
That too, yeah.
Anonymous No.126738719 >>126739100 >>126739134
>>126738669
why do you keep posting him here
Anonymous No.126738723 >>126738834 >>126741437
>>126738629
>caste of European professionals (engineers, doctors, etc.) that has not degraded since circa 1900
It actually has, but not in a way you'd expect. There is certainly some progress still, and even some innovation, but not to the extent of 19th century. And it is progressively worsening, the caste of European professionals you're refering to do not reproduce, or do not reproduce at the same rate as the lower, working class. When this happens for an extended period of time, we get less geniuses and highly intelligent people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXkr1YheXk
What's more interesting is how the class fertility changes, creativity and innovation per capita correlate strongly with simple reaction times, color discrimination, use of high-difficulty words, backward digit span, spatial perception and more (all very good proxies for general intelligence, and some of them, such as SRT are measured since 1800s).
>read Bernard Shaw.
Which book you'd recommend?
Anonymous No.126738782
>>126733119 (OP)
>Ignores the repeats
Shit ass performance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cyGOXbxIw0
Anonymous No.126738834
>>126738723
brown people and lower-class whites are just leeches who will wither on the vine when the lights go out and they have no access to food.

>Which book you'd recommend?

Major Barbara. It was not promoted as such, but it is a play about the future of industrial society and eugenics.
Anonymous No.126739100 >>126739473
>>126738719
I don't? This is only my second post ever regarding him.
Anonymous No.126739134
>>126738719
/classical/ is outer /hurwitz/.
Anonymous No.126739196 >>126739324
>>126738669
Because they're just as good as your Mozarts and Wagners and underrated, relatively speaking. No one means CPE when they say 'Bach'.
Anonymous No.126739324 >>126739394 >>126739416
>>126739196
>No one means CPE when they say 'Bach'
Yeah because his father is much better.
>underrated
That word is overused. CPE Bach, Haydn, and Rossini are perfectly rated. They're not as good as Mozart or Wagner.
Anonymous No.126739394 >>126739483 >>126740394
>>126739324
CPE was just as good as JS, arguably even better. And Haydn is definitely the genius of classical era. He came up with the sonata form, so there's no contest. Only Beethoven outsmarted him by manipulating forms in more ways than previously imagined. No one is "perfectly rated".
Anonymous No.126739416 >>126739483 >>126740394
>>126739324
Haydn was better than Mozart at the symphony, piano sonatas, the quartet, and non-opera vocal music.
Anonymous No.126739473
>>126739100
that's double the lethal amount
Anonymous No.126739483 >>126739496
>>126739394
>CPE was just as good as JS, arguably even better
complete retardation
>>126739416
>at the symphony
strong case for it
>piano sonatas
debatable, I disagree
>the quartet
debatable, I disagree 2
>non-opera vocal music
agreed. I love Mozart's masses but Haydn's are generally superior.
Anonymous No.126739496 >>126740121
>>126739483
Bach had decades to come up with something new, but did nothing except his usual fugues. CPE revolutionized harmony. How is that retarded?
Anonymous No.126739922
Chopin's and Alkan's cello sonata. Dave really loves it, he has two videos about the record

Let's try both (Chopin first):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5B6B8LPks&list=OLAK5uy_mUhS9wR18zzcWgXrOOsPq50CTmZI4cqO8&index=5
Anonymous No.126740121
>>126739496
>quality=innovation
lol
Anonymous No.126740176 >>126740576 >>126740588
Man, why did so few symphonists do what Mahler and Bruckner did? If the symphony is truly a worthy artform then it should be as grand as the opera in scale and not be limited to light 40 minutes slop pieces
Anonymous No.126740225 >>126740469
Bruckner 2 is a good symphony, why do people always say it's one of his weaker ones? I think it's way more consistent than his third.
Anonymous No.126740394 >>126740988 >>126741385
>>126739394
>CPE was just as good as JS
How so?
>arguably even better
'Arguably' is a strong word. You're going to have to argue it very well
>And Haydn is definitely the genius of classical era. He came up with the sonata form, so there's no contest
Haydn is very influential, a great composer, and highly regarded, mostly for inventing the symphony and string quartet. But he certainly didn't "cope up with the sonata form". He helped develop and standardize it, along with Mozart (balance) and Beethoven (expansion), but CPE Bach, JC Bach, and Stamitz were already using forms that resemble sonata form.
>No one is "perfectly rated".
Those three are. It's completely fair and reasonable they're rated as being a tier below composers like Mozart or Wagner.
>>126739416
This is all very debatable.
Anonymous No.126740455 >>126740473 >>126740500 >>126740506
Putting Mozart on the same tier as Wagner is laughable
Anonymous No.126740469
>>126740225
I think B3 is the better work as a whole (definitely has a much better first movement) but I do really like the slow movement of B2.
Anonymous No.126740473
>>126740455
Because?
Anonymous No.126740500 >>126740543
>>126740455
yes you need to really underrate Mozart to do that
Anonymous No.126740506 >>126740543
>>126740455
True, Wagner is trash
Anonymous No.126740543 >>126740549 >>126742529
>>126740500
>>126740506
Come on, Wagner is good. I think he's as much a genius as Mozart in different fields. Just because he has an obnoxious cult around him shouldn't take away from his music.
Anonymous No.126740549 >>126740610
>>126740543
What's Wagner's best String Quartet?
Anonymous No.126740552
I know it's very popular to hate Brendel, but when he was good, he was really good. RIP
Anonymous No.126740576
>>126740176
Intimated by their genius, presumably.
Anonymous No.126740588 >>126740615
>>126740176
Why does something have to be big to be good?
Anonymous No.126740610 >>126740633
>>126740549
His focus was on the Opera. A composer can be highly focused on one thing or he can do a lot of things well. I don't think the former is an issue if the composer makes genuine masterpieces in the form that he chooses, which Wagner did.
Anonymous No.126740615
>>126740588
More narrative space to express wider ranges of emotion. A Mahler symphony is truly like the world, as he describes himself
Anonymous No.126740633 >>126740653
>>126740610
He wrote 13 operas, 4 of which are good. That's a pretty bad ratio of success.
Anonymous No.126740653 >>126740657
>>126740633
he has 10 good operas
Anonymous No.126740657 >>126740678
>>126740653
Der Ring, Parsifal, Meistersinger, and Tristan are the only good ones. The rest are boring trash
Anonymous No.126740678 >>126740682
>>126740657
the ring is 4 operas
Dutchman Tannhauser and Lohengrin are good too
Anonymous No.126740682 >>126740828 >>126745088
>>126740678
>Dutchman Tannhauser and Lohengrin are good too
Good at putting people to sleep
Anonymous No.126740828
>>126740682
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder
Anonymous No.126740920 >>126741135
>be me
>feel like giving opera another try
>spend 20 minutes trying to decide on which one to listen to and which recording
>press play and start listening
>"Hey, this opening overture is bomb, there might be something to this..."
>second movement starts
>male opera singing
>pause and change to something else
sigh. maybe someday
Anonymous No.126740988 >>126748832
>>126740394
>How so?
As I already explained, more forward thinking, less jerking off to the same rules.
Haydn is the godfather of sonata form as we know it. And I disagree, no one is perfectly rated - that is an impossibility.
Anonymous No.126741001 >>126741730
let's get choral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAH1z7r3ags&list=OLAK5uy_mq1Fdg_6aDLq7EXB9XynA3aGywE7s30Is&index=1
Anonymous No.126741003 >>126741059
Give me some wagner recordings in stereo with good singing that doesnt go
>AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAa
Anonymous No.126741059 >>126741219
>>126741003
Just listen to baroque opera. It's better anyway.
Anonymous No.126741119 >>126741125
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fMuZUC18gDs&pp=ygUTR2xlbiBnb3VsZCBzY3JpYWJpbg%3D%3D
Anonymous No.126741125 >>126742052
>>126741119
>m.
>Gould
0/10
Anonymous No.126741135
>>126740920
Happens every time, females are just as bad for me
Anonymous No.126741138
Verdi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNSIhjMMdrA
Anonymous No.126741219
>>126741059
>Can you provide me with [thing]
>no you should [other thing]
Anonymous No.126741284
>>126737593
Whatโ€™s the difference between a toccata and a prelude?
Anonymous No.126741288
>>126737803
Autism
Anonymous No.126741326 >>126745514
>>126738629
The pathetic loner is the son (or daughter) of an Indian doctor immigrant confirmed
Anonymous No.126741352 >>126741370
>>126724591
>>126713678
>>126712758
>>126712506

Like dark chocolate, atonal music is an acquired taste.
Anonymous No.126741363
>>126733296
Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFG70gFbvOg
Anonymous No.126741370 >>126741682
>>126741352
Thereโ€™s a Freudian subtext to this post
Anonymous No.126741385 >>126748838
>>126740394
We have lost the plot if we are now saying Wagner is better than Haydn.
Anonymous No.126741437
>>126738723
Just from a laymanโ€™s perspective this not a very fair chart since in 1900 the population was 1.6 billion which is just slightly more than todays Indian population. Iโ€™m fact the population increase is nearly entirely in Asia and itโ€™s never happened in human history and itโ€™s caused by innovation.
Secondly you have in 1400 you have horse drawn cart, 300 years later you: horse drawn cart. Whereas in 1900 you have engine on 4 bicycle wheels chugging along at 8 miles, slightly over 100 years later you have rocket ships deploying drones on Mars that link video back to earth.
Anonymous No.126741500 >>126749495
Bach
Mozart
Bruckner
Scriabin
Webern
all I need
Anonymous No.126741682
>>126741370
Anything and everything in this thread has Freudian subtext.
Anonymous No.126741730
>>126741001
Renaissance polyphony is a world unto itself. Ponder the following quote:

>Few periods in the history of western music have produced so many composers of the first rank as the several decades before and after 1500
Anonymous No.126741849
Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner. Wagner.
Anonymous No.126741881 >>126741890 >>126741957 >>126749104
Did Scriabin know you could use more than one chord
Anonymous No.126741890
>>126741881
maybe YOU can
Anonymous No.126741957
>>126741881
No. Just like he didn't know you could do something other than a slavish attachment to sonata form
Anonymous No.126742052
>>126741125
>Glen Gould plowing your mum's ass
Anonymous No.126742321 >>126742409
Scriabin sisters...not like this
Anonymous No.126742390 >>126742519
thoughts on Haydn's Symphony no.45?
Anonymous No.126742409 >>126743012
>>126742321
why would someone so ugly show their faces online?
Anonymous No.126742458
Cะบpัะฑะธะฝ 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdug6iIsV1Q&ab_channel=ElinaAkselrud
Anonymous No.126742519
>>126742390
Been a while since I had a Sturm und Drang binge but I love it. I remember Scherchen having a particularly distinctive recording.
Anonymous No.126742529 >>126748970
>>126740543
Mahoanon, who's your top orchestral Mozart recommendation again? Was it Suitner?
Anonymous No.126742581 >>126742830 >>126750767
>Playing Chopin Ballade No. 4 in F minor at an unhurried pace
What's your problem my guy?
Anonymous No.126742830
>>126742581
I had the same video recommended to me by jewtube. I skipped to his awful coda and turned it off immediately.
Anonymous No.126743012 >>126743048
>>126742409
He's not even close to being ugly for the internet, he's not bad looking
Anonymous No.126743048 >>126743070
>>126743012
bitch you're fucking blind
Anonymous No.126743070 >>126743891
>>126743048
NTA but if he's really that low on your scale for male attractiveness then I can only assume you're living in a eugenic colony.
Anonymous No.126743107 >>126743161 >>126743865
Franck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLa-JVabSdY
Anonymous No.126743161
>>126743107
All the greats are here: Rachamaninoff, Debussy and F-Frank
Anonymous No.126743270 >>126744993 >>126745718 >>126745727 >>126747922
Rest easy.
Anonymous No.126743865
>>126743107
Mengelberg was really the best accompanist of the 20th century. The Debussy is even better.
Anonymous No.126743891
>>126743070
I live in a world where people's pubes are on their balls, not their chin.
Anonymous No.126744833 >>126745940 >>126746058
what Mass in B minor has the best soloists (no hiss shit, please)?
Anonymous No.126744993
>>126743270
rip
Anonymous No.126745088
>>126740682
They're easily his most entertaining operas. Who the hell finds them more boring than five-hour Meistersinger? Plus I like the pretty melodies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWBA42pZ4-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96OD33aogRc
Anonymous No.126745514
>>126741326
I'll post a timestamp if you want. some of the posters here actually are upper-class whites believe it or not.
Anonymous No.126745718
>>126743270
RIP he had a good recording somewhere I'm sure
Anonymous No.126745727
>>126743270
literally who?
Anonymous No.126745762
now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jvoWyclwM
Anonymous No.126745940
>>126744833
i guess the Richter one
Anonymous No.126745960
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhVlcvlt2M
Anonymous No.126746058
>>126744833
i like scherchen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLyOdg6CrYM
Anonymous No.126747039 >>126747175
Baloo, my babe, lie still and sleep;
It grieves me sore to see thee weep.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNshZQO2CO4&list=PLs2vq238vU6mmGdoT6vuWaUXu7A7ZG2ZA&index=1&pp=iAQB8AUB0gcJCdQJAYcqIYzv

Not quite sure what Baloo means
Anonymous No.126747175 >>126750336
>>126747039
Interesting but way too slow and diffusive.
Anonymous No.126747611 >>126749791
best complete Haydn String Quartets?
Anonymous No.126747922
>>126743270
RIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFTre3vq6Tg
Anonymous No.126748832
>>126740988
>explained
Where?
>more forward thinking
Bach was extremely forward thinking in many aspects.
>less jerking off to the same rules
What 'rules'?
Anonymous No.126748834
>>126733119 (OP)
what does /classical/ think of Sculthorpe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqj1_ILyA
Anonymous No.126748838
>>126741385
Yes yes, Wagner bad, now clap.
Anonymous No.126748970 >>126755889
>>126742529
Karl Bรถhm is my favorite overall conductor of Mozart. Sadly he didn't do many of his piano concertos, so for those I tend to go for Kurt Masur and Annerose Schmidt's recording, that one is my favorite complete-ish set. If I feel a bit more HIP that particular day, maybe Hogwood and Levin as the improvisational angle of those recordings is fun.
Anonymous No.126748979 >>126749032 >>126750253
Isn't Wagner rather underrated among the general populace? I mean, aside from Neo-Nazis and the occult circles that Wagnerians move in.
Anonymous No.126748990 >>126748997
Are there any more symphonies formatted like Tchaikovsky's fourth or Mendelssohn's Scottish symphony where the first movement makes up the bulk of the symphony?
Anonymous No.126748997
>>126748990
Bruckner or Mahler probably did that at least once.
Anonymous No.126749032 >>126749050 >>126749077
>>126748979
He is a household name, even my rockist boomer dad knows who he is and he has almost no knowledge of classical music at all. As far as people actually listening to him, yeah that is difficult. Wagner's "no numbers" philosophy ironically lead to his work being a lot harder to appreciate by the general populace, even compared to symphonists who were inspired by him like Bruckner and Mahler.

Generally, people like musical works to be smaller sections of musical thought that make up a cohesive whole rather than a giant singular musical statement. Wagner decided to make 4 hour long works that can't really be split up into digestable smaller segments that you can isolate, even the individual acts have little to no musical seperation and are way too long to appreciate on their own. This also makes it difficult to use in concert settings, because aside from overtures/preludes, there aren't many ways to perform works by Wagner in a standard concert setting like you could for any other opera. Der Holle Rache can be performed individually inbetween two symphonies in a concert and it would work quite well, as can any other aria from that opera. Good luck trying to find something like that from the ring cycle that can do that besides MAYBE Ride of the Valkyries. It's why "wagner concerts" are a constant stream of preludes, interludes and more preludes.

I am not saying this makes wagner bad, just that it makes wagner harder to appreciate for most people.
Anonymous No.126749050 >>126749947
>>126749032
>He is a household name, even my rockist boomer dad knows who he is
I'm really surprised to hear that. I've never met a single non-classical fan that knows who he is.

>Good luck trying to find something like that from the ring cycle that can do that besides MAYBE Ride of the Valkyries.
What about the so-called 'bleeding chunks'? Entrance of the Gods, Magic Fire, Forest Murmurs, Siegfried's Rhein Journey and Death and maybe a few more. But in general I agree with you.
Anonymous No.126749077
>>126749032
Wagner (PBUH) is understood only by the most esoteric Logierians.
Anonymous No.126749104 >>126750253
>>126741881
>Scriabin, however, did not use the chord directly but rather derived material from its transpositions.
Anonymous No.126749308 >>126749314 >>126749636
Who is the Bruckner of every country? I mean less in style and more in personality. I really like his unpretentious nature, and him just being a simple hick who wrote music because he loved God. It makes his work really endearing to me. Which I rarely find in most other composers. Especially from the east.
Anonymous No.126749314 >>126749335
>>126749308
>caring about biographical details over the music
cringe
Anonymous No.126749335
>>126749314
I care about the music. But the composer's life definitely impacts the music to some degree.

Take Schoenberg for example. Imagine, say, his string trio
So it being written by an autistic jew who wanted to advance the tradition gives it one vibe
Now imagine it being written by a serial killer and the piece is meant to capture the sound of his victims, the piece suddenly becomes way different in character
Anonymous No.126749495
>>126734517
>>126741500
Supremely based taste.
Anonymous No.126749636 >>126750262
>>126749308
for America it's probably Roy Harris.
Anonymous No.126749791
>>126747611
Tatrai
Anonymous No.126749842 >>126749849
>Mahler
>Bruckner
>Chopin
>Wagner
>Grieg
>Mozart

Is the LoGH soundtrack /classical/ approved?
Anonymous No.126749849 >>126749881
>>126749842
Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya also contains Mahler excerpts. Japs seem to like his music quite a bit.
Anonymous No.126749881 >>126749899 >>126749903
>>126749849
>Japs seem to like his music quite a bit.
I really don't know why.
Anonymous No.126749899 >>126749939
>>126749881
The colorfulness is quite Asian.
Anonymous No.126749903 >>126749939
>>126749881
Might be because his music has a sense of narrative progression to it which resonates with japs a lot. For example JPOP (I know, not classical) notoriously uses more complex progressions and modulation compared to any other nation's pop music. Their soundtracks are also war more often symphonic in the modern day compared to the west which has adopted Hans Zimmer fart noises.
Anonymous No.126749939 >>126749957
>>126749899
Sounds like a rather odd statement to me.

>>126749903
But narrative progression in itself isn't necessary for complex progressions and modulations.
Anonymous No.126749947 >>126760351
>>126749050
>What about the so-called 'bleeding chunks'? Entrance of the Gods, Magic Fire, Forest Murmurs, Siegfried's Rhein Journey and Death and maybe a few more
These often don't really feel like full pieces and don't work in isolation that well if you never saw the opera's they're from. At least an overture works well enough as a standalone symphonic movement that Liszt created an entire genre that's essentially just overtures without an opera. But the Ring doesn't have any real overtures either besides sorta half-overtures of 5 minutes max.
Anonymous No.126749957
>>126749939
>But narrative progression in itself isn't necessary for complex progressions and modulations.
Yes, but that is how the Japs use it for their music. The average JPOP song utilizes it's complexity far better than, say, Jacob Collier

Though this is turning into a >>>/mu/ discussion. This'd better be a seperate thread
Anonymous No.126749966 >>126749985 >>126749991 >>126750002
If I like Bruckner, should I listen to Meistersinger, Tristan or Parsifal?
Anonymous No.126749985
>>126749966
Probably Tristan, but don't take my word for it, I'm not a big fan of Bruckner or Wagner.
Anonymous No.126749991
>>126749966
Parsifal
Anonymous No.126749998 >>126750252
Mahler 7 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnVTw4m1dy8&list=OLAK5uy_niOJgm60_aTw_7IOnesT_j7RANXmHaUOI&index=1
Anonymous No.126750002 >>126750008
>>126749966
Parsifal imo sounds the closest to Bruckner, but then again Tristan was responsible for inspiring Bruckner to be a symphonist. Meistersinger is so comical and light-hearted and 'pretty', and does that describe any of Bruckner's music?
Anonymous No.126750008 >>126750015
>>126750002
>Meistersinger is so comical and light-hearted and 'pretty', and does that describe any of Bruckner's music?
Depends, there are some parts in Bruckner where such a nature does come out.
Anonymous No.126750015
>>126750008
Such as?
Anonymous No.126750034 >>126750066
>never listened to parsifal before
>click on random section
>it's the most beautiful music i have ever heard in my life

I am overwhelmed, destroyed, forced to worship at the shrine of Wagner. I understand now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3UsM8-JEwo
Anonymous No.126750066
>>126750034
get the Kubelik recording
Anonymous No.126750183
Wagnerian Symphonists > Wagner himself
Anonymous No.126750201 >>126750261
>>126733119 (OP)
Piano: 2nd round @ II Rachmaninoff International Competition
just started
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQWSiylFC1c
Anonymous No.126750252
>>126749998
This is actually a really nice 7th. Gonna have to go through the rest of Dudamel's Mahler and recordings.
Anonymous No.126750253
>>126748979
No, prison sister
>>126749104
A subtle distinction Wikipedia sister
Anonymous No.126750261
>>126750201
neat, thanks
Anonymous No.126750262
>>126749636
Kek read that as Rolf Harris at first
Anonymous No.126750336
>>126747175
Didnโ€™t ask
Anonymous No.126750767
>>126742581
kek, I have that in my recommendations right now.
I'm not really interested in hearing someone play Chopin's Ballade sans any technical chops, though
Anonymous No.126750980 >>126751094 >>126751660 >>126754789
Does /mu/ think classical is dead as a genre, as whole?
Anonymous No.126751016 >>126751042
i love Wagner's Rienzi Overture, is the rest of the Opera worth listening to? if so what is the best recording?
Anonymous No.126751042
>>126751016
>is the rest of the Opera worth listening to?
no
Anonymous No.126751094 >>126751168
>>126750980
I'd guess most of the standard repertoire will be played for the next centuries to come, but it's hard to predict. As for new compositions in genres like the string quartet, the piano sonata or orchestral pieces... should we wish for those at all? Obsolete genres are obsolete.
Anonymous No.126751168 >>126751232
>>126751094
>. As for new compositions in genres like the string quartet, the piano sonata or orchestral pieces... should we wish for those at all? Obsolete genres are obsolete.
So, you say yes?
Obviously the old music is still being performed so it's alive in that sense. But I really mean is good classical music still being created
Anonymous No.126751188
>>126733144
>>126733187
...He's GREEAAATT!!!
Anonymous No.126751232 >>126751259
>>126751168
Maybe someone out there is writing great music right now. Since literally every era of western classical music has produced first rate composers it'd be naive to think none exist today.
Anonymous No.126751259 >>126751263 >>126751352
>>126751232
But you don't know of any?
Anonymous No.126751263
>>126751259
That's right.
Anonymous No.126751352 >>126751431 >>126751752
>>126751259
Kevin Puts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RIVIhRYGg
Carl Vine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcGBPjaeInI
Zhao Jiping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk6D9M4W4MA
Arturo Mรกrquez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ynC1RB3kY
Per Nรธrgรฅrd (recently died, RIP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m30jiRNEKPc
Unsuk Chin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVSJtkNtTc
Anonymous No.126751431
>>126751352
The name Unsuk Chin amuses me
Anonymous No.126751660 >>126751750
>>126750980
It's not a genre.
Anonymous No.126751728 >>126754674
went to lookup and listen to Bavouzet's Ravel set and turns out he's released a new one just this year, serendipitous timing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMOlsw2_P8&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ocsPwA7ReU&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTLKDJ3ukOI&list=OLAK5uy_kxRCVsAWOYrWbqkBGD8e7yXCclbF7WrcA&index=4

Easily some of the best performances of these three famous Ravel pieces I've ever heard, and I'm sure the rest of the set will continue to deliver. Give it a try.
Anonymous No.126751750 >>126752629
>>126751660
i knew i'd get that response
Anonymous No.126751752 >>126751774
>>126751352
>Kevin Puts
what
Anonymous No.126751774 >>126751786
>>126751752
Zhao Jiping is the Chinese form of the name Kevin Puts
Anonymous No.126751786
>>126751774
Oh fug, I got the Kevin Puts and Zhao Jiping links mixed up, my bad.
Anonymous No.126752600 >>126753621
Sokolov's Chopin Piano Sonata No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ztIJ42DBE
Anonymous No.126752629
>>126751750
So you know the truth, congratulations.
Anonymous No.126753558 >>126753621 >>126758066
anyone else just mindlessly hate composers they've never heard of or just me?
Anonymous No.126753621 >>126754585
>>126752600
That reminds me, I should check out Sokolov's Chopin sonata no.3, I think it's entirely within "his style" and I expect nothing but a great performance
>>126753558
Any modern composer. But I wouldn't say 'mindlessly'.
Anonymous No.126753943
Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaphYIT6FMs
Anonymous No.126754585
>>126753621
>That reminds me, I should check out Sokolov's Chopin sonata no.3, I think it's entirely within "his style" and I expect nothing but a great performance

There doesn't seem to be a traditional release with it, weird. The third piano sonata of Beethoven, Brahms, and Scriabin, yes, but no Chopin outside of some live recordings with dubious origins on Youtube. Sad. Still, if you don't mind that, then yeah, should be good.
Anonymous No.126754674 >>126754722 >>126755258
>>126751728
Not to go begging for (You)s, why is it no one has ever replied to any of my Ravel piano set posts outside of the one time someone vilified Perlemuter for being a J -- are there no Ravel fans here or something? I thought some of ya'll masturbated at the altar of Gaspard de la nuit and hummed Bolero and La Valse in the shower? No one here likes any of his stuff beyond those, particularly the stuff on solo piano?
Anonymous No.126754722 >>126754727
>>126754674
unravel
Anonymous No.126754727
>>126754722
That's clever -- I am!
Anonymous No.126754789
>>126750980
absolutely not. people are just talentless, uninspired, and tasteless.
Anonymous No.126755149
now playing

start of Dvoล™รกk: Symphony No. 5 in F, Op. 76
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqNGHs02j5c&list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4&index=23

start of Dvoล™รกk: Symphony No. 7 in D minor, Op. 70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1X1jyuzREg&list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4&index=26

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lYU2QnL2o4Aisf6tJyZ4K-eV8dOUzQMs4
Anonymous No.126755258
>>126754674
I simply never listened to him. Do some mozart posting and I'll happily reply.
Anonymous No.126755325
speaking of Mozart, looked up some Piano Sonata sets for some new ones to try and saw Hewitt just released another recording for her cycle. What an ugly cover for such a big name pianist. Hopefully it's good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU12io01Gwo&list=OLAK5uy_m27j5lZUQm8mWQYygEa34KSCIscCrlPDQ&index=1

>Hyperion presents the final volume in Angela Hewitt's traversal of the complete Mozart Piano Sonatas, recorded on her beloved Fazioli piano. This double-album's treasures include the K545 "Sonate facile," loved by millions of piano students worldwide. Alongside are the clever and witty Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je, maman" (known in the English-speaking world as "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star") and Mozart's very last piano sonatas. This is Angela's 50th release on the label, marking a monumental milestone in her 31 years (and counting!) as an esteemed Hyperion artist. 2 CD set.
Anonymous No.126755334
Beethoven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvbPOq4-Cg

>mfw
Anonymous No.126755683
What Made Alfred Brendel Larger Than Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZPltJ_l85E
Anonymous No.126755692 >>126755734 >>126762598
I don't understand the importance of a good conductor. Can you guys give me examples of the same piece being conducted by a good and a bad conductor so I can hear the difference?
Anonymous No.126755734 >>126755979 >>126756284
>>126755692
Since good and bad vary from person to person, I'll instead post examples where the difference in the conductor and their vision is readily apparent and obvious:

Toscanini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKB80dZLxQU

Klemperer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DvRFpJha2k

Chailly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MpIHLtXm-A

Karajan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQOfydpwM8Y
Anonymous No.126755850
DONNA
You can take your Pablo Casals, you can keep your Rostopovich, I say Yo-Yo Ma rules.
Anonymous No.126755889
>>126748970
>Annerose Schmidt
Ah right, that's why I vaguely remembered Suitner coming up. Thanks for the rec.
Anonymous No.126755979 >>126755997
>>126755734
I think I like Klemperer the most. The main difference I notice is the tempo. I don't know music theory, so I don't know what else to look out for.
Anonymous No.126755997 >>126756101
>>126755979
Tempo, the way the orchestra plays (though part of that is on the orchestra itself, the conductor plays a large part [note the fullness of Klemperer and Karajan versus Chailly]), repeats, and how they play specific notes, bars, and moments, which all add up to working in service of a specific vision, and the question is if their vision and their way of going about it works for you. So, no music theory knowledge needed, all that matters is which sounds the best to you and resonates in your heart and soul the most. That's the effect of the conductor.
Anonymous No.126756101 >>126756161
>>126755997
Why I like Klemperer's version is because whenever there's a build up, it just seems to have weight to it. It actually seems like an effort to get to the climax (or whatever it's called). Other versions sort of give it to you too easily.
Anonymous No.126756161
>>126756101
Yeah Klemperer's 3rd is an all-timer. But yeah, see, you get it, those are the differences the conductor makes.

And thus begins your journey of caring about the specific recording and the performers (conductor/orchestra/soloists) :)

Personally I think it's fine having multiple favorite recordings because sometimes I like hearing pieces done in different ways (for example, for the 3rd, sometimes I like hearing it performed with a faster tempo with taut and agile playing), so I don't see the purpose of listening to new recordings as to find the ultimate best one and discard the rest into the recycle bin, but most here are like that, so you do you.
Anonymous No.126756284 >>126756411
>>126755734
I wonder if Danny Elfman got some of his ideas for the 89 Batman theme from this
Anonymous No.126756369
I wonder why that Russian uses a toothpick as a baton
Anonymous No.126756411
>>126756284
I wonder why you're so retarded.
Anonymous No.126756454 >>126756539
now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89h2Mk9U6tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U6VReqbZCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGY8dPYAts
Anonymous No.126756539
>>126756454
Never even heard of this composer but heโ€™ll have to wait till later
Anonymous No.126756809 >>126756827
Terry Riley
Anonymous No.126756827 >>126756881
>>126756809
here you go
https://youtu.be/F3e0Nim9XuM

>Maya Beiser
>Maya Beiser x Terry Riley: In C

>For Those Who Like: Steve Reich, cellos, magic mushrooms
>The Story: It's pretty gutsy to take on a revered, pioneering piece of minimalism designed for a couple dozen people to play and reduce it to only a stack of cello loops and a pair or percussionists. But cellist Maya Beiser has triumphed, releasing one of the most groove-laden and listenable renditions of In C, Terry Riley's enduring 60-year-old score. And it's fitting that Beiser deploys loops for her version, given that the seeds of In C were sown in Riley's earlier experiments in cutting and looping tape.
>The Music: Beiser's vision is all about pulses, drones and the low C string of her instrument, which tends to ricochet off drummers Shane Shanahan and Matt Kilmer. She likes to unfurl long, singing cello lines over oscillating beats, creating grooves with the power to intoxicate or get you wired for an all-night road trip. In one section, she interleaves her voice with cello in a nod to the medieval vocal technique of hocketing. In another, she distorts her instrument and amps up the beat, creating a kind of headbanging grunge moment. Along the way, Beiser cuts the engine to provide a couple of calming rest stops.

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/06/nx-s1-5220085/npr-best-classical-albums-2024
Anonymous No.126756881 >>126756922 >>126757282
>>126756827
Good stuff. In C is very fun to play with chamber groups. It's what made Chamber Music click for me.
Anonymous No.126756922 >>126756946 >>126756967
>>126756881
>It's what made Chamber Music click for me
You didn't like any string quartets or the like by Mozart or Beethoven until you heard Terry Riley's In C?
Anonymous No.126756946 >>126756956
>>126756922
Overrated
Anonymous No.126756956
>>126756946
Just checkin'
Anonymous No.126756967 >>126757070 >>126757282
>>126756922
Also I didn't just hear In C. Actually experiencing it with a Chamber group will give you a whole new sight on how much of a masterpiece it is.
Anonymous No.126757070
>>126756967
I'm not much of an RYMsister so I'll have to take your word for it.
Anonymous No.126757282 >>126757314
>>126756881
>>126756967
I imagine all of that would also be true for Messian's Quartet of the End of Time
Anonymous No.126757314
>>126757282
I like his autistic obsession with birdsong.
Anonymous No.126758066
>>126753558
The entirety of this general does this.
Anonymous No.126760329
petzold
Anonymous No.126760351
>>126749947
>These often don't really feel like full pieces and don't work in isolation that well if you never saw the opera's they're from.
Didn't Wagner successfully perform them in concerts all around Europe? I remember reading about Tchaikovsky hearing Wagner conduct the Liebestod and later being disappointed when he heard it in performance with singing.
Anonymous No.126760645 >>126760770 >>126760771 >>126760912 >>126761775
explain why rach is bad without using slurs or being nationalistic
Anonymous No.126760770
>>126760645
uhhhh he just IS OKAY???????
Anonymous No.126760771 >>126760805
>>126760645
How can you explain that something good is bad? The common fallacies when criticizing Rach include: bad counterpoint (he can handle 4 voice counterpoint perfectly btw), bad form (his form is as good as Mozart's, the "problem" is not that it's bad, but not innovative for modernist circlejerk), and no innovation, which is quite laughable, as any sort of innovation after early 20th century has led to nothing but ugliness and downfall of classical music pretty much. Rachmaninoff is god tier (high S tier) melodist, and that alone scares the krautslopper who probably jerks off to Simon Sechter. His structural brilliance and seamless harmonic flow exceeds expectations from 20th century sloppers. To claim otherwise is no different than to claim late Beethoven isn't good, you are moving into post-modernist, subjective nonsense territory. Both can be justified by pseudo-reasoning, but neither can be justified by logic and common sense.
Anonymous No.126760784 >>126760860 >>126760918
List of the greatest composers:

Bach
Mozart
Wagner
Rachmaninoff
Schoenberg
Anonymous No.126760805
>>126760771
>post-modernist,
Philosophical movement is implied.
Anonymous No.126760860
>>126760784
Bro tried to sneak Rachmaninoff in there, LOL!
Anonymous No.126760866
List of the greatest composers:

Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Scriabin
Rachmaninoff
Schostakovich
Anonymous No.126760883
>List of the greatest composers:
>Chopin
>Tchaikovsky
>Mahler
>Sibelius
>Rachmaninoff
Anonymous No.126760912 >>126760985
>>126760645
>overreliance on formulaic lyricism
>limited harmonic language
>excessive emotional directness
>virtuosity as an end in itself
>historical redundancy
Anonymous No.126760918
>>126760784
Bro tried to sneak Schoenberg in there, LOL!
Anonymous No.126760985 >>126761417
>>126760912
>>overreliance on formulaic lyricism
>>excessive emotional directness
Lyricism is the soul of music. Might as well criticize Mozart, Chopin and Schubert for the same reasons. Nonsensical argument.
>>limited harmonic language
Scriabin's harmonic language isn't better, original =! better.
>>virtuosity as an end in itself
If that was the case, Rach could write unplayble music and 12ths all over the place. A lot of his music is actually pretty easy for beginners (e.g. his famous c# minor prelude). And same argument can be applied to any other composer, Beethoven's sonatas are excessively virtuosic and sometimes harder than most Rach.
>>historical redundancy
As is all music today? Lol. There is no great innovation anymore, we are in cultural and intellectual decline. Modernists did not innovate in any serious manner. It's safe to say Beethoven and Wagner were the last major innovators.
Anonymous No.126761050
He is criticized because he's more popular than his contemporaries. It's like if SaIieri (Schoenberg) had fans that were jealous of Mozart's (Rachmaninoff's) supremacy
Anonymous No.126761164 >>126761213
How can you listen to this and not believe in God?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPAiH9XhTHc
Anonymous No.126761213 >>126761229 >>126761823
>>126761164
Bach himself was an atheist
Anonymous No.126761229 >>126761237
>>126761213
Nope, you're lying for whatever reason I don't know.
Anonymous No.126761237 >>126761256
>>126761229
I'm not lying.
Anonymous No.126761256 >>126761327
>>126761237
You are, which is proven through the pic I posted, a photo I made in the museum of Bach's birthplace in Eisenach. And even without such information: you just have to listen to a single Bach note and already realize that that was not composed by an atheist man.
Anonymous No.126761327 >>126761335
>>126761256
That pic proves absolutely nothing though?
>such information
The information can be inaccurate, dummy.
>single Bach note and already realize that that was not composed by an atheist man.
Shostakovich was as atheist, or are you denying that too? His music can be equally as charming. I know you're trolling, but still.
Anonymous No.126761335 >>126761351
>>126761327
It's a reputable source, a much more trustworthy source than an anonymous atheist shitposter like you.
Anonymous No.126761351 >>126761381
>>126761335
>It's a reputable source
Any "reputable" source can be wrong.
>than an anonymous atheist shitposter like you.
It's not just me. There's concrete logic to support it.
Anonymous No.126761381 >>126761421
>>126761351
You have made a claim (Bach is an atheist), provided absolutely zero sources or proofs for said claim. I made a counter-claim and provided a reputable source. I will let others decide who to trust.
Anonymous No.126761417 >>126761552
>>126760985
>Nonsensical argument.
Not at all. Lyricism is a part of music, but I'm talking about OVERRELIANCE. It's a valid critique. Mozart, Chopin, and Schubert never fell into that trap because their lyricism is integrated into highly sophisticated forms, motivic development, and structural variety. Rachmaninoff too often leans on broad, sweeping, sentimental melodies without the same level of developmental rigor. Too much of one device, however beautiful in isolation, becomes repetitive and uninteresting across works.
>Scriabin's harmonic language isn't better, original =! better.
The question isn't simply "better" or "worse", that's quite subjective, but rather about variety and exploration. Rachmaninoff largely remains within a narrower late-Romantic idiom. Scriabin is basically Rachmaninoff but more = clearly more interesting and varied. Rachmaninoff = less varied = limited.
>c# minor prelude
Firstly, you don't know what "for beginners" means. Try an early Mozart minuet, not that. As for virtuosity: you're missing the point. It's not about writing "the hardest possible music", but using virtuosity as a gesture and substance, as a kind of content in itself. Compare that with Chopin or Scriabin, where virtuosity is more tightly fused to the musical substance rather than being a self-repeating surface effect.
>>>historical redundancy
I'm referring to his position within his own time, not today. He was already redundant back then. And no, Beethoven and Wagner were not the "last major innovators", whatever that means. Entirely new developments occurred in orchestration (this is a big one), rhythm, harmony, and texture well into the 20th century. Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Schoenberg, Bartรณk, and others radically expanded the language of music.
Anonymous No.126761421
>>126761381
>provided absolutely zero sources or proofs for said claim.
You never asked.
Anonymous No.126761462 >>126761523
Educated and knowledgeable biographers like John Eliot Gardiner and Christoph Wolff support the fact Bach was a devout Christian and not an atheist. To quote some passages from their biographies respectively:

>Religion was central not just to his upbringing and his education but to the locus of his employment and to his general outlook on life. For him it went beyond dogma, having a practical as well as a spiritual application, and was underpinned by reason.
>The dedication of his art to Godโ€™s glory was not confined to signing off his church cantatas with the acronym S[oli] D[eo] G[loria]; the motto applied with equal force to his concertos, partitas and instrumental suites.

(from Bach : Music in the Castle of Heaven)

>Bach annotated in his study Bible Abraham Calovโ€™s commentary... writing in the margin: โ€˜NB. A splendid demonstration thatโ€ฆ music has been mandated by Godโ€™s spirit.โ€™
>...the โ€˜Soli Deo Gloriaโ€™ at the end of Bachโ€™s scores provides vivid testimony to his own stand in this respect.
>He also grasped the metaphysical dimension of music, as we can deduce from another marginal comment in his Calov Bible... โ€˜As the glory of the Lord appeared upon the beautiful musicโ€™... Bach added his own comment: โ€˜NB.

(from: Johann Sebastian Bach : the learned musician)
Anonymous No.126761470
Did wagner write any operas in the same style as Hollander in his late period?
Anonymous No.126761523
>>126761462
>Educated and knowledgeable biographers like John Eliot Gardiner and Christoph Wolff support the fact Bach was a devout Christian
No shit. Sky is blue as well. Who is dumb enough to argue the contrary in the first place that motivated you to make this post at all?
Anonymous No.126761552
>>126761417
>OVERRELIANCE
Define it.
>their lyricism is integrated into highly sophisticated forms, motivic development, and structural variety.
Absolutely same goes for Rachmaninoff. Your lack of exposure to his music and some other biases are showing.
>without the same level of developmental rigor.
Rachmaninoff's contrapuntal development is far superior to Schubet's and farily superior to Chopin's. You are pulling all this out of your arse.
>that's quite subjective,
I disagree.
>Rachmaninoff largely remains within a narrower late-Romantic idiom.
Except it isn't narrow at all. It's like saying Bach's harmony is "narrow". This is all pseudointellectual nonsense. And you fell for it.
>you don't know what "for beginners" means. Try an early Mozart minuet, not that.
I'm just pointing out how beginners often start with Rach pieces and succesfully pull them off.
>but using virtuosity as a gesture and substance, as a kind of content in itself.
Except that isn't the case with Rachmaninoff. He uses advanced techniques to develop textures. This is not merely a "virtuosic show off". And doesn't explain his orchestral output, where is virtuosity in his symphonies? In Isle of the Dead? In the Bells? Your argument falls apart right there.
>I'm referring to his position within his own time, not today.
Many great composers weren't recognized in their own time either. Anyway, this has nothing to do with the quality of his music anyway.
>Beethoven and Wagner were not the "last major innovators",
Oh yes they were. The innovations that occured after were not nearly as substantial.
Anonymous No.126761775
>>126760645
Emotionally dishonest
Anonymous No.126761823 >>126761925
>>126761213
There were no atheists back then
Anonymous No.126761925 >>126761960
>>126761823
There were atheists since Ancient Greece.
Anonymous No.126761960 >>126762058
>>126761925
Nope
Anonymous No.126762058 >>126762539
>>126761960
Historically inaccurate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagoras_of_Melos

Furthermore, I'd also argue and die on the hill that Democritus, Leucippus and even Epicurus were all atheist. Protagoras was technically agnostic (like Epicurus, in some sense), but that can be translated to "atheist but not informed enough". Furthermore, atheism existed in Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia.
Anonymous No.126762529
feels like a Schubert 9 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_v-cywSjng&list=OLAK5uy_lFSSUjLDDiHWSC9D4gSKefsNEiQGZBp4k&index=1

Between his symphonies, string quartets, and piano sonatas, man, Schubert really loves his repeats. It's fine because his themes and melodies tend to be among the best ever composed, but man, when he likes something he wrote, he tries to get everything out of it, and then some!
Anonymous No.126762539 >>126762734
>>126762058
Historically illiterate
Anonymous No.126762598
>>126755692
A good way to think about it is comparing a conductor to a translator of literature. I'm sure you'd agree different translations have a completely distinct result, even if the underlying source material and meanings are the same, the equivalent of performing from the same notes. Every translation and performance comes with myriad decisions, all of which affect the color, mood, flavor, meanings, music, rhythm, emotion, and length of the text and music.
Anonymous No.126762709
Got-DAMN this is a leisurely, slow tempo performance of Beethoven's 7th String Quartet, never heard anything like it lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7FYWwFJGYM

Generally, performing these middle quartets are all about emphasizing the verve and dancing melodic lines, so hearing it performed this way is quite a shock. Gotta respect it tho
Anonymous No.126762734 >>126762842
>>126762539
>no u
I accept your concession.
Anonymous No.126762750 >>126762783 >>126762813 >>126762857
Any suggestions for a highly expressive, romantic set of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas? Barenboim's and Gilels' are in the right vein, but looking for others. Please and thank you.
Anonymous No.126762783 >>126762846
>>126762750
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-6pIa-33lE&list=OLAK5uy_lMxOHq5YqpzvBpY6aBGmpTESxItA-CQoA&index=4
Anonymous No.126762813 >>126762846
>>126762750
Schnabel or Fischer maybe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRGp4emJjms&list=OLAK5uy_mReC5ncKqG-2fP493DSU8omT9cD2-s2NE&index=5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1nRXxE0oPI&list=PLdY1CsVLZQ3VVcbVzakiTt6auovd6hifO&index=2
Anonymous No.126762842 >>126763531
>>126762734
>No evidence
I accept youjr retardation
Anonymous No.126762846
>>126762783
>>126762813
ty
Anonymous No.126762857 >>126762860
>>126762750
Barenboim
Anonymous No.126762860
>>126762857
th-th-thanks...
Anonymous No.126762915
bump limit
Anonymous No.126762929
New
>>126762916
>>126762916
>>126762916
Anonymous No.126763531
>>126762842
>>126763517
Anonymous No.126765388
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNkFwOPNxj0

I like painting and listening to Mozart. It makes me feel all classy. :)