Edwin Fischer Edition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PAbLuLpBBA
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.
>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh
Previous:
>>126733119
Looking for music that is both historically redundant and emotionally dishonest. A reliance on virtuosity as an end in and of itself is preferable but not required
For me, it's Julia Fischer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWWVUkbK_QQ
For me it's Jenna Fischer
>>126762969One more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ec_DnPL578
>>126762989not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try posting on >>>/tv/ instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS-0USAYVuA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I8b51AlY3g
Lisning to Lully
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_uFihnXJc
>>126756454Only listened to the first one but very intriguing
>>126763000Good point, basement virgin
>The difference between Beethoven and Mahler is the difference between watching a great man walk down the street and watching a great actor act the part of a great man walking down the street. Those who dislike Mahler do not enjoy play-acting.
julia f
md5: 965676eabafc911868f465fb35f214e2
🔍
>>126763379>mfwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRpIlP7to_k
>>126762842The evidence is plenty. If you are rejecting historical facts, accepted by every historian in the world (feel free to point out if someone disagrees), that's a (You) problem.
Huh, this Giltburg Beethoven is actually turning out to be quite nice. Sounds about what you'd expect from a Russian pianist famous for his Rachmaninoff performances:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_xRDnQzbM&list=OLAK5uy_keTAlVwFgiDYrGu1e5Z8bgL-e1plgQ1qE&index=11
Probably not good for those who prefer their Beethoven heroic, limpid, and/or classically-influenced, but if you don't mind some color, moodiness, and romance, give it a try!
What are we discussing today: a shaky hissing barely audible recording from 1906 of Shekelberg playing the cello or the old fallback who has the Mahler X again?
>>126763517>If you are rejecting historical facts, accepted by every historian in the world (feel free to point out if someone disagrees), that's a (You) problem.Bait should be believable
>>126763924how did you know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BiELdANq0
Wonder if the imbecile obsessed with atheism is also the one polishing Rachmaninoff's cock every thread.
>>126763931Dogma should be defensible
Ritual should be repeatable
Liturgy should be legible
Belief should be beautiful
What fulfils these conditions in the decadent modern world in which "God is Dead"? Answer: the holy poetry of Richard Wagner and his "Sacred Festival Stage Play" which transforms and supersedes religion.
https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg?list=PL_Cf5Xxn5OZY1gE9zsWHAjXz6MVz9IZYS
>>126763932For me, it's Levine's. The usual consensus pick and certainly a worthy choice is Bernstein/Vienna.
Those two aside, you should also keep on your radar to eventually try Karajan's, Abbado/Berlin, Chailly/RCO, and Tennstedt. Barbirolli if you want something entirely idiosyncratic and indulgent fun. But yeah, the first two I named.
>>126763932>>126764048I'd put Klemperer on that list above Karajan or Abbado.
>>126764048>>126763932>>126764068Not Klemperer, my head was in the clouds (was staring at my music client and his name was in front of me). I meant Thomas Sanderling.
>>126764068Huh, didn't eve know Klemperer had a M6. Oh, one 'standard' approach recording that's really good which I forgot is Thomas Sanderling's. That's if you find other's too indulgent and affected.
>>126763932>>126764088oh lol
>>126760351If only they still did this, I find most Opera singing indeed most classical singing super gay
>>126763931Again, I accept your concession.
Nelsons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxZFwhjuJwk&list=OLAK5uy_m9tI-DAt1-nP6lKRJh37cxDl2KcyH_O1Q&index=7
>>126764120Either fuck off with your constant off-topic debatefagging about religion or alternatively don't fold the second any one of us points out your completely superficial understanding of the topic, only to resurface a few threads later with the same stock lines like you weren't humiliated, as has happened repeatedly for months now.
Later Scriabin, even though he only used one chord managed to convey an incredibly wide range of emotions and colours in his music ranging all the way from discordant, tense and mysterious to mysterious, tense and discordant and everything in between.
Haydn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5m20wxOv5Q
>>126764157You can either show with logical reasoning thar I'm wrong or continue slopping your meds, your extreme schizophrenia is showing. Delusional freak
>any one of us >like you weren't humiliated,Case in point. Get back to your asylum
>>126764339>asylumthank you indian child
>126764120
The irony is this anon has presented evidence Bach was an atheist. It just came to them in a dream
>>126764345Thank you insane retard
Perlman's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsmJK_xOLsQ&list=OLAK5uy_m_vxakBa9Zb0tVzqAsWLUx1F9ApR5PAaU&index=22
>>126764157why are you seething like a faggot
let's get Transcendental
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBe_LKngwys&list=OLAK5uy_mVXWXvQVF6TDFcLV1dRR4z5irWzTPBPj8&index=4
>Pianist Daniil Trifonov, whose playing the New York Times called "simply electrifying," plays Franz Liszt's complete concert etudes on his new two-disc album, Transcendental, released by Deutsche Grammophon. Trifonov recorded his visionary interpretations within the space of five days, a feat in keeping with the tireless energy and superhuman spirit of Liszt himself. In addition to the Transcendental Etudes, the recital includes the Paganini Etudes and five Concert Etudes.
>Daniil Trifonov proves himself an heir to Liszt --Washington Post
where do i start with Schoenberg?
>>126764480String Quartet.
>>126764480Throwing him in the trash
>>126764489i don't even know where he is
>>126764474With this, this what people mean when they say Schoenberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tkfiqUtXRE
There is earlier stuff like Transfigured Night but you want to listen to classic 12 tone Schoenberg
>>126764544a transcendental error, my anonymous Gould Ghoul friend
>>126764480String Quartet No. 1, Pelleas und Melisande, and Verklärte Nacht (I prefer in orchestral form, but up to you)
>>126764572I like Verklarte Nacht but when people talk about not liking Schoenberg they don't mean that they mean the 12 tone stuff.
>>126764604I meant you replied to my post by mistake instead of the other anon's
now playing
start of Mozart: Sonata For Piano And Violin In B Flat, K.378
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXohBEMKVxo&list=OLAK5uy_naQOuvGnGZLoz2KB4HuAsWZx-ohfcbfLc&index=18
start of Mozart: Sonata For Piano And Violin In G, K.379
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYhPgF-t7-M&list=OLAK5uy_naQOuvGnGZLoz2KB4HuAsWZx-ohfcbfLc&index=21
start of Mozart: Violin Sonata in F Major, K. 376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB-SzCtI97Y&list=OLAK5uy_naQOuvGnGZLoz2KB4HuAsWZx-ohfcbfLc&index=23
start of Mozart: Violin Sonata in F Major, K. 377
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1IMSxX5UVY&list=OLAK5uy_naQOuvGnGZLoz2KB4HuAsWZx-ohfcbfLc&index=25
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_naQOuvGnGZLoz2KB4HuAsWZx-ohfcbfLc
Are there any sub K.300 Mozart pieces worth listening to? For a non-Mozart superfan
Will I ever come around on these Bax symphonies? or are they truly meandering, indistinctive slop?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwS20neKvVM
A lot of people talk about the transition from Classical to Romantic music like it’s this huge cultural victory — like music used to be stiff and mechanical, and then Beethoven came along and made it emotional and human. I don’t really buy that narrative. I think something more complicated happened, and honestly, I think we’re still living with the consequences.
Before Beethoven, music wasn’t just about self-expression. It was a craft — something made to serve a purpose. It celebrated beauty, order, nature, or the divine. It was functional in the best way: it was made for ceremonies, churches, salons, and dances. And composers worked within shared forms that were so well developed, you could take a strong little melodic idea and grow it into an entire piece almost organically. That wasn’t limiting — it was liberating. You didn’t need to reinvent the wheel every time. You worked within a tradition that gave your ideas structure and meaning.
Then comes Beethoven, and everything changes. He’s still using the old forms, but now the struggle with the form becomes the emotional content. Music becomes about the composer’s inner life — their pain, their vision, their uniqueness. The “tortured genius” idea takes hold. And from that point on, Western art music starts to shift away from being something shared and rooted in tradition, toward something personal, emotional, and eventually even chaotic.
To be clear — I love Beethoven. This isn’t a knock on his music. But I do think he marks a turning point where we moved from creating in service of something greater, to creating as a way to assert the self. That shift set the stage for a lot of what came later — Romanticism, modernism, postmodernism — each generation trying to “break free” from the last, often by tearing down what came before.
I sometimes think of it like a fire: in the early days, we had this solid, beautiful house of musical traditions. And over time, we started pulling pieces off — throwing the carved woodwork and furniture into the fire just to keep it burning. And now, we’re down to the baseboards.
I’m not saying we should all go back to writing minuets and fugues and pretending the last two centuries didn’t happen. But I do think it’s worth asking: what did we lose when we stopped seeing music as a craft, and started seeing it mostly as a personal statement? Could we swing the pendulum back a little — bring back the idea that structure, function, and beauty are not enemies of expression, but actually make expression more powerful?
That won’t happen unless people realize it’s even an option. And that’s the part that really matters to me: not saying one era was better than another, but pushing back against the idea that the only way forward is to keep burning what came before.
>>126764911the Kantian Copernican Revolution
yymbac
md5: 5e30f2d1e13293ca9fbe0aeaf0ec9dae
🔍
Yo-Yo Ma's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnjvtSShi4c&list=OLAK5uy_nFPO3ImIXC-I74ZFZYSwVsJXMKlRPBjYE&index=7
>>126764911>the form becomes the emotional contentThank god. What drew me into classical music in the first place, was the emotional appea Everything, the form, harmony, timbre serves the purpose of evoking emotion. Before Beethoven,the emotion was there yes, but it was not as expressive and powerful. Music notation got progressively more sophisticated, along with classical instruments(e.g. piano), both of which allowed more expressiveness. Best music was made in 18th and 19th centuries. Greatest, and largest number of geniuses were born in that era. obviously some were born before and after, but vast majority are from 18-19th century, the golden age of culture.
>moved from creating in service of something greater, to creating as a way to assert the self.I could probably agree with that.
>>126764911>the form becomes the emotional contentThank god. What drew me into classical music in the first place, was the emotional appeal. Everything, the form, harmony, timbre ideally serves the purpose of evoking emotion. Before Beethoven,the emotion was there yes, but it was not as expressive and powerful. Music notation got progressively more sophisticated, along with classical instruments(e.g. piano), both of which allowed more expressiveness. Best music was made in 18th and 19th centuries. Greatest, and largest number of geniuses were born in that era. obviously some were born before and after, but vast majority are from 18-19th century, the golden age of culture.
>moved from creating in service of something greater, to creating as a way to assert the self.I could probably agree with that.
>>126764810the 25th symphony and his 9th piano concerto are the best of his early works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6lOObdTX14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Pxh-J6f7I
why do people here dislike Schoenberg? because he was jewish? he wasn't even religiously jewish.
>>126765463Well that doesn't really make sense because none of that applies to Schoenberg
Favorite recording(s) of Bach's French Suites? Gavrilov? Hewitt? Perahia? Zhu Xiao-Mei? Gould? Schiff? Haebler? Other?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAR3Dzp5wAk&list=OLAK5uy_k9ADT1kAWki2t7hRjoR5H_P20Tnc7yMTs&index=3
Listening to Gavrilov's now. I've always loved the French Suites, it's the kind of music that's easy to love on first listen and impossible to dislike and miss the appeal. This recording takes a rather extroverted, almost romantic approach, so it won't be for everybody, but I'm loving it so far.
>>126765487>invents an intellectually seductive dead end that derails the development of music for the next 100+ years >does it in the name of giving the common man a voice or some communist gobbledygook, but you have to be highly educated to be retarded enough to get anything out of it
>>126765606Be angry at academia for forcing it onto everyone, and more specifically at sycophants that saw it as the only way forward. Schoenberg never forced serialism onto anyone, and was actually quite upset when he learned that it had taken over France. He promoted and composed tonal music even into his late years.
>communist gobbledygookSchoenberg was a monarchist. Webern was a Nazi. Berg was apolitical.
You should probably direct your anger more towards Boulez, who more aptly fits the description of "throwing the carved woodwork and furniture into the fire just to keep it burning" since he actively used serialism as a political weapon.
>>126765517colin tilney set puts me to sleep
kirkpatrick set is good minus the instrument
newman set is fast
>>126765443>he wasn't even religiously jewishHe converted back to Judaism and became a Zionist after the nazis rose to power. But no, I don't think that's why people dislike him. Serialism is just polarizing.
>>126765443Have you listened to him?
Circe gets my thumbs up-I'm starting to like this Hovhaness fellow
>>126765606>>126765693blame people for ɓeing too stupid to enjoy good music
>>126764449you are confused: he's seething like a normal guy because the other anon is a faggot
>>126762916 (OP)he made the mimic
>>126763400Surprisingly based opinion from Copland.
What Mozart piece is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNkFwOPNxj0
The fiddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU7lUGOOUoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdMd6UdKHtQ
What's your ranking of Mahler's symphonies? Personally I don't understand why people rank the 6th so highly.
>>126765517> Gavrilov> Zhu Xiao-Mei> Hewitt> HaeblerWho?
>>126764968https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkR6T3Gc_VM
This general has always eschewed Bach’s stand alone keyboard works like the chromatic fantasia and fugue in D minor, preferring to listen to the WTC or the Goldberg variations for the n’th time, no doubt because the latter has an associated album that they can collect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zvyIv7uwyE
>>126768382>no doubt because the latter has an associated album that they can collect.You got me. I prefer long pieces and cycles over standalone pieces for every form and composer. Debussy's Preludes over the Deux Arabesques, Liszt's Annees de pelerinage over his Liebestraum and Etudes and Consolations, and the Bach examples you named. Though I do have recordings I love which contain all of those shorter pieces, I do listen to them less for the reason you named, so again, I'm guilty, I've been called out.
>>126768382What's the best albums that just collect Bach's stand-alone pieces?
>>126767958The YouTube diversity algorithm carefully curated Lil bro's musical tastes.
>>126764048>Bernstein>Vagina Innuendo artwork>>126764412love that little nigga
>>126766995He's not. You're another seething faggot lol
>>126767947Here's mine: 5 > 2 > 9 > 6 > 4 > 3 > 1
Still haven't gotten into 7th and 8th. It feels more like a chore to me, unfortunately.
>>126767947Mahler symphonies tier list
S: 9th, 6th
A: 8th, 5th
B: 3rd, 7th, Das Lied
(this is the masterpiece line)
C: 4th, 10th
D: 1st, 2nd
I'd be open to swapping the 4th and the 7th depending on my mood.
>>1267679478 = Das Lied von der Erde = 9 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7
Leaving the first three unranked because they all have the same kind of issue of being a little formally diffuse and I don't care enough. First movement of 3 is great enough to deserve mention.
>>126767930i've been picking up fiddle recently. fun instrument.
but those links ain't fiddle
I just learned that Richard Wagner’s father was jewish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Richard_Wagner#Paternity
>>126767947>Personally I don't understand why people rank the 6th so highly.On a purely surface level and cursory view, it is dense as fuck. Like so many different ideas happen in it it's kind of mind-blowing. Obviously complexity on its own doesn't make something good, but when you add that to the sheer emotional power, gorgeous melodies, and original sound, well, now we're getting somewhere. It's a sublime experience. It's so potent I try not to listen to it too often anymore because it Rattles my entire day.
>>126768775BWV 539 is known as ‘the fiddle’; more accurately, the fugue is known as Bach’s ‘fiddle fugue’.
>>126768808the more you know
>>126768642Judaism is a matriarchal cult.
>>126768777His real father (Carl Friedrich Wagner) wasn't Jewish and his adoptive father (Ludwig Geyer), who was suspected of being Jewish by Wagner biographers, has been shown to in fact not be Jewish either. At least all of the ancestral evidence disputes the claim.
>>126768971It would make sense if Wagner had Jewish ancestry. Jews have always numbered amongst the most prominent antisemites.
>>126766975Thing is, the general population had very good reasons to turn away from the slop that was post-romantic tonal music. Yes, there was plenty of great stuff there, but also tons of meandering, unlistenable garbage. And it's not like the alternatives to Serialism (and later total Serialism), were any good. Minimalism is complete trash, spectralism is just boring, and aleatoric music was just memes. You can certainly say that Serialism tainted the waters that led to those alternatives, but the fact of the matter is is that we were already in a doomed landscape from the 1910s on.
>Why was the greatest art in history of western civilization produced between 17th and 19th centuries?
>why are we incapable of producing great music anymore?
>why are we flocking to memes like serialism instead of "innovating"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSQFKrbFZp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnSfiglhMTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXkr1YheXk
https://books.google.nl/books/about/At_Our_Wits_End.html?id=lnaFDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y
>>126769212thank you indian child
>>126769218Thank you illiterate brainlet. Why are you posting on /classical/? >>>/mu/
>>126769212>reaction times as a proxy for intelligenceI knew having played three different video games at a competitive level meant I was a genius.
>>126769233Intelligent =! genius. Also yes, it positively correlates with IQ. All those traits correlate with general intelligence and they have been observed to decline at nearly the same rate. Read the book.
>>126769254Oh I was being sincere.
>Read the bookAdded to my books-backlog, thanks.
>>126769271>Added to my books-backlogYou did that once before, Mahlerkun. I think it answers most of our questions about contemporary art. And it's interesting to look from that perspective.
>>126769341lol yeah, I opened it on Amazon and saw the Opera bookmark heart was already there lol. I just downloaded it then to read tomorrow, there!
What was the consensus on Pichon‘s B minor here? I remember at least one anon counting down the days to its release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICjPtGfJGw
Satan’s emissary says it is sensational
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT5RpZTgoQM
It certainly was a refreshing and innovative approach. There may be hope for humanity yet.
Which Hurwitz video is the Satan's emissary thing from exactly
>>126769212Fuck off, Thierry!
>>126769411He's also hinting that Bach could've been an atheist ;)
https://youtu.be/_6jrRXQi1Wg?feature=shared&t=516
>>126769378Have fun. And share your thoughts about it if you will.
>>126769452I thought this story was quite revealing.
https://youtu.be/zrxgZGqiUTY?si=47Fssjli7z5Uj2we&t=162
>>126769398All of Pichon's recordings are worth listening to.
>>126769212if you can't appreciate serialism I just immediately disregard every artistic opinion you have
>>126768707Anon, that guy was seriously trying to argue atheists "didn't exist" back then. What do you call that guy except for a faggot?
for the record I do think that claiming Bach was an atheist is pretty retarded as well
>>126769593>i was rooting for the jewskek
>revealingIn what way? Jews are taught to gain the victim status (muh holohoax, muh jewsus) and that's how they manage to stay under the radar. Good thing about Hurwitz is that he probably doesn't even realize that. And he's a secular, intelligent guy.
>>126769758>opinionThank you illiterate memealist sister.
>>126769770To be honest, I'm half trolling about Bach being an atheist. There's a pretty good chance, but it's impossible to know.
>>126769780yes, "opinion". do you not know English? I can link you a definition of the word.
>>126769786It's an observable, demonstrable, irrefutable fact, but your ignorance is getting in the way.
>>126769773The part where he celebrated that the son ended up with a jewish girl…
>>126769831The antisemite’s bloodline was successfully infiltrated and subverted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoX9YMzhaYU
>>126769860The Magnificent Mr. Handel
>>126769865Probably more relevant :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B50ed6qaHbU
thoughts on Ivan FIscher? good conductor?
>>126770101Very good. Great Mahler (most of them, at least), Dvorak, Beethoven, and Bartok. So-so Brahms. That's off the top of my head.
>>126770101>>126770109fug, one correction: his recording of Brahms' Hungarian Dances is one of the best, a nice alternative to Abbado/Vienna.
Wagner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oC6HLS0as0
>>126767545https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jf7y1F4gH0
>>126764190He didn't "only use one chord". He extracted material from its transpositions. It's practically just a scale.
Relistening to Mahler's 6th, I think I love it more than I remember. But I bet I'll fall asleep during the last movement, which is 30min long for some reason. Ehh.
>>126770362yeah, I can sing along with the first three movements almost note by note but the finale is just too dense. I've considered listening to it on its own sometimes lol, like Mahler's version of Strauss' Metamorphosen
Dvorak is my fav Romantic composer. Nothing tops 8, 9 and Slavonic Dances
>>126770382have you checked his string quartets, quintets, and piano trios/quartets/quintets?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_xrrBz1c3M
>>126769593Hurwitz was permanently scarred from the Antisemitism he experienced as a child.
Bach is God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTnN5rPpdwE
>Jean-Sebastien Bach
They slaughtered my boy. His name is JOHANNES SEBASTIAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPmLk7E5SFg
>>126771200Johann Sebatheist Bach
![510JUCWe38L[1]](/thumb/mu/1750437673831133.jpg)
now playing
start of Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 61
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b41-Y_hGe8&list=OLAK5uy_m2OtWJdE40wDmR5bZLWTmVvv5R3_t8Mds&index=2
Romance for Violin and Orchestra No. 1, Op. 40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztAmcQ3e0c&list=OLAK5uy_m2OtWJdE40wDmR5bZLWTmVvv5R3_t8Mds&index=5
Romance for Violin and Orchestra No. 2, Op. 50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jgdrxg2560&list=OLAK5uy_m2OtWJdE40wDmR5bZLWTmVvv5R3_t8Mds&index=5
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m2OtWJdE40wDmR5bZLWTmVvv5R3_t8Mds
>To violinists, studying and performing the Beethoven Concerto is the ultimate challenge and achievement. Vengerov says that recording it, especially under Rostropovich, his friend, mentor and frequent collaborator, is the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. Among the Concerto's innumerable recordings, this must be one of the greatest. Vengerov and Rostropovich are considered specialists of the romantic literature, especially that of Russia, but their Beethoven is a paradigm of classical nobility: calm, simple, elegant, inwardly expressive. Vengerov's tone is ravishing, pristinely pure, with a silvery shimmer and a golden glow; his bowing is seamless, letting him spin long, finely shaped phrases, his vibrato is focussed and intense. Playing from deep inside the music, he needs no external effects, not even slides, and gives musical meaning to every note, even in the accompanying passages. He uses his own brilliant, stylistically apt cadenzas.
>The first movement is stately and quite slow, as if the patrician conductor were restraining his youthfully fiery soloist; the second is serenely celestial, the third sprightly and mercurial. The Romances have a natural, lyrical flow, the dramatic sections balancing the meditative ones perfectly; the treacherous double-stops are impeccable. The orchestra is excellent, but the dynamic contrasts are excessive: the tuttis explode, so keep your finger on the volume control. --Edith Eisler
There is no classical music that one can really listen on a sweltering sunny day
>>126769212I enjoy early 20th century music quite a bit more than 19th century music tbqh
Also serialism has been dead for, like, 70 years. Don't you mean flocking to pop music?
Was Adam Neely right that music theory means the harmonic style of 18th century European (German) musicians?
>>126771776Beethoven/...Apocalypse Now?
>>126773246Ugh why did you remind me of that insanely bad video. I had already purged it from my memory
Anyways, no, he isn't right
>>126773064Sure there is. Haydn and Schumann.
now playing
Borodin: In the Steppes of Central Asia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ8quMO4srk&list=OLAK5uy_ntu6yYZoTnqXpuggpnaSc3p9Hd6wAmRYQ&index=2
start of Borodin: Symphony No. 1 in E-Flat Major
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqu54IpoCY&list=OLAK5uy_ntu6yYZoTnqXpuggpnaSc3p9Hd6wAmRYQ&index=3
start of Borodin: Symphony No. 2 in B Minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZgyNg0vx8Q&list=OLAK5uy_ntu6yYZoTnqXpuggpnaSc3p9Hd6wAmRYQ&index=6
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ntu6yYZoTnqXpuggpnaSc3p9Hd6wAmRYQ
>>126769212>>126769222Excellent posts Utter Pradesh sister-7000 rupees have been sent to your account
>>126769452>>126769593I can't be bothered watching Hurwitz at all
>>126769212Edward Dutton (AKA The Jolly Heretic) is a British YouTuber and proponent of pseudo-scientific “race science”, which purports that intelligence and other characteristics are almost entirely biologically determined, and varies significantly between “races” of people. Dutton taught at University of Oulu in Finland but was removed after an investigation by the university found him guilty of plagiarising a student’s dissertation.
Beethoven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=632yZbDJ7q8
is this the best violinist on the planet or what
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW6N0BDAnN0
Is it true that Glen Gould is the king of playing Bach fugues?
>>126774168https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg7ovviljsk
king of shitposting maybe
>>126774184The guy took arftistic chances that's what a true artist does.
>>126769212Physiognomy is real, therefore I will not be taking the opinions of someone who looks like THAT seriously.
>>126773128Memealism has the last blow dealt to already dying art music. Popular music has always been out there, but yes it's more popular than ever today, which can be explained by the decline.
>>126773691Thank you illiterate brainlet. Why are you posting on /classical/? >>>/mu/
>>126774258kek. thanks bait brother
tenor
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>One thing I like to talk about because it's so funny is figured bass
>>126774296thank you indian child
RF
md5: e70935e9e4c8484b4f2e0300bc7ef8af
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>Thank you illiterate brainlet. Why are you posting on /classical/? >>>/mu/
>>126774321>>126774331Thank you illiterate brainlet. Why are you posting on /classical/? >>>/mu/
Jesu Juva help me Jesus, help help me Jesus
help me Jesus, help help me Jesus
Help me Jesus yeah-get her out of my heart!
JS BACH
md5: 89c112617fc82983bea8353e881c51a1
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Bach was an atheist
https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Bach-Atheist.htm
Bach was Mexican
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWQjCcP2fyU
>>126774395>which proves yet another time that astrology can't be right as no two composers could be further apart in terms of personal integrity and aesthetic value than these two Two German Baroque composers? Seem pretty similar to me. He'd have a point if he said Bach was born the same month as the Notorious B.I.G
>>126774395tldr: You can't prove that Bach wasn't secretly an atheist and just didn't tell anyone
Biber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2h8yhU1_Ls
This Hewitt Mozart set kinda blows. Why is it these Bach specialists, even if they're good at Bach, are almost always so dull at other composers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uSRNxggaBc&list=OLAK5uy_m27j5lZUQm8mWQYygEa34KSCIscCrlPDQ&index=2
I don't think I've ever switched off a recording of K. 457 or any of these masterpiece late piano sonatas this fast before.
>>126775611Mozart kind of blows anyway
>>126775611well that's a bad recording
>>126775861That's what I said! Glad you agree
>>126775873https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U87PNgLKBc
yeah, have some arrau
>>126776015Arrau really nails the demonic energy here damn
oar2
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>>126776142>Mozart>Demonic energy
>Along with Clementi, Dussek may have been a source of stylistic inspiration and influence for Beethoven, whose expansion upon the idiomatic innovations of the London school led to their rapid penumbration with the appearance of Beethoven's own keyboard works. Stylistic, melodic, dynamic and structural similarities exist between Beethoven's Sonata Opus 10, No.3 and Dussek's Sonatas Opus 31, No.2 and Opus 35, No.2. Similarly, the opening of Beethoven's Sonata Opus 10, No.1 quotes directly Dussek's Sonata Opus 39, No.3. It is also possible that Dussek's influence can be seen in Beethoven's famous Sonata Opus 81a, les Adieux: "both the program and the realization owed a great deal to Dussek's Opus 44."
>Dussek introduced one noteworthy stylistic innovation to the piano concerto form. In variance with the prevailing classical concerto style, exemplified by Mozart's piano concertos, Dussek eliminated the soloist cadenza in the opening movement in all of his concertos written after 1792. His Concerto in C major, Op. 29, published in 1795, starts with an introductory Larghetto in 3/8 time, a solemn thematic declamation that is unique to the classical concerto. His last surviving work in the genre, Op. 70 in E-flat major, was one of the first to lengthen substantially the opening movement: at 570 measures long, roughly a third longer than previous contributions, it foreshadows the practice of a dominant opening movement in concertos, as in the concertos of Chopin and the Opp. 85 and 89 by Hummel as well as Beethoven's fifth.
>Dussek is important in the history of music because of his friendship with John Broadwood, developer of the "English Action" piano. Because his music demanded strength and range not available in then current pianos, he pushed Broadwood into several extensions of the range and sonority of the instrument. It was a Broadwood instrument with Dussek's improvements that was sent to Beethoven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo1XHgO8asU
>>126770380>almost note by noteYou'd need to have several lungs, throats and mouths for that to be true, anon. It's a symphony, not a monody.
>>126768642>Vagina Innuendo artworkwe see what we want to see
>>126764911>A lot of peopleWho?
sg
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>>126776593as in "semen demon"
>>126776675Great choice that's not the usual expected suspects
>>126776675>>126777050>Ben Zander comes to the rescue: His recording includes both the duple and triple hammer blows. You get to choose which finale you want to hear. As usual, Zander is perfect for following Mahler’s precise instructions in the score: a sforzando here, a ritardando there, a subito piano or a purposeful mix-mash of rhythms there. Now make the clarinet sound like a dying cat, now let the violins swoop with a portamento. Zander obeys where most other conductors smooth it all out to make pretty. This should not be a pretty symphony.
Chopin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4FPwuAJ10
>>126774395https://www.bachbijbel.nl/english/bach-writes-in-his-bible/
>>126777222what kind of christian scribbles all over a bible
>>126774395>>126777222Holy checked and debunked
essential works of François Couperin?
is the Brilliant Classics Telemann Edition any good?
>>126777118>The finale suffers from the same problems described in detail above regarding Zander’s clipped phrasing of the march music and lack of sensitivity to proper balances and dynamics. The opening pages don’t bode well. Already at measure 28, Zander disregards Mahler’s call to increase the tempo (“gradually more flowing”) through measure 40, where we then have two bars of “dragging once again”, and then “Più mosso”. Mahler asks the oboes and horns to “take time” in their horrific shrieks and moans. They surely don’t, and I miss the bass drum rhythm and suspended cymbal strokes a few bars down the road. Check out Bernstein (DG) to hear how terrifying this music should sound. As might be expected, Zander pegs the two hammer blows in the development section, but his approach to them is very weak and ineffective: the orchestra simply fails to achieve a loud enough crescendo before they kick in, with the result that they sound pasted onto the texture rather than logically placed.>The return to the music of the introduction suffers from the same problems as the first time around, and adds to them an excessively slow tempo that fails to make an effective transition to the “grazioso” oboe tune at figure 147. The mad dash to the recapitulation, beginning at figure 150, almost gets away from Zander entirely, with strident trumpets and horns, careless dynamics, oddly impact-less triple-forte timpani, and one apparently very lost triangle player (the cloudy recording makes it difficult to tell). The same tonal coarseness afflicts the remainder of the movement. Where the music ought to sound rugged and powerful, here it simply comes across as noisy. Zander includes the third hammer blow, and also Mahler’s original orchestration of the seven following bars. With the exception of a single exposed clarinet note that sounds like a mistake (doubtless the reason Mahler removed it when he revised the orchestration), you’d never notice. Oof
Top ten baroque composers besides Bach (and sons), Vivaldi, Handel, Buxtehude, Rameau, Lully, Sweelinck, Purcell, Scarlatti, Telemann, Pachelbel, Corelli and Albinoni?
>>126778079I don't know who wrote that, but it feels disingenuous, or as if they were listening to a completely different recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-q4ty0Stis
>>126778142>(and sons)His songs wrote during, and in the style of, the classical period. Indeed C.P.E. in particular was instrumental in shaping it. That said: Frescobaldi, Pergolesi, the Couperins, Zelenka, and Gibbons (or is that technically late renaissance? Can I include Monteverdi too?)
>>126778182Oh, also Froberger
>>126778142>CorelliTorelli
>>126778182>or as if they were listening to a completely different recording.Why? Seems quite accurate to me listening to that recording.
>>126778423>Seems quite accurate to meI'm sure it does
>>126762916 (OP)/clssical/
Old school ice cube is classical
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD8kBjTm7YM
Only stupid bitches can't appreciate this.
top 10 composers of all time besides all of them (and sons)?
>>126778142J L Krebs (who may have been better than Bach), Vincent Lübeck, Praetorius, Böhm, Bruhns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GRjABfaFSs
>>126778142Monteverdi
Schütz
Carissimi
Torelli
(G.B. Vitali)
A. Scarlatti
Purcell
(Legrenzi)
(Caldara)
D. Scarlatti
Transitional:
C. H. Graun
J. A. Hasse
C. W. Gluck
Baroque except J.S. Bach, Handel and Scarlatti is not worth wasting your time on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIgCMjuia0
You can just feel all your sorrows melt away.
Classical except J. Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven is not worth wasting your time on.
>>126779416>>126779459Both indubitably correct.
Romantichads winning like never before.
Lousadzak By Alan Hovanhess
Lousadzak By Alan Hovanhess
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GZCNMMGV7w&pp=ygUTaG92aGFuZXNzIGxvdXNhZHpha9IHCQm-CQGHKiGM7w%3D%3D
file
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Eduard Hanslick on Mahler’s First Symphony Nov. 20, 1900
“One of us must be mad — and it’s not me!” So concluded one of two stubborn scholars at the end of a long dispute. “It’s probably me,” I thought, with honest humility, after recovering from the terrifying finale of Mahler’s Symphony in D major. As a sincere admirer of Director Mahler — to whom both our opera and the Philharmonic concerts owe so much — I hesitate to rush to judgment on his peculiar and grandiose symphony. On the other hand, I owe my readers honesty, and so I must admit, regretfully, that this new symphony belongs to that species of music which, to me, is simply not music. Perhaps I might have formed some closer relation to it (though surely not a love affair) had we not been denied the knowledge of its origins and meaning. At its first performance in Weimar, the symphony bore the title “Titan” and came with a detailed program. The critics found it “preposterous,” and so the composer erased both title and explanation.
cont
file
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In general, poetic instruction manuals for music are often either a nuisance or a red flag. Our great symphonic masters — from Haydn and Mozart to Brahms and Dvořák — usher us into their celestial realms without requiring such an entrée ticket. Even so, I doubt Mahler’s symphony would have delighted us more with a program than it did without. But we were not indifferent to what a clever man like Mahler might have imagined with each movement. In this darkness, we lacked a guide to show us the path. What, for instance, are we to make of this apocalyptic finale crashing in out of nowhere? What is the funeral march with the old student canon Bruder Martin [Frère Jacques] doing there — and what’s with the so-called “parody” section interrupting it? The music itself would have gained neither charm nor depth from a program — that’s certain — but the composer’s intent might have become clearer, and the work more comprehensible. As it was, we had to make do with the occasional flashes of wit and Mahler’s dazzling orchestral craftsmanship.
The performance of this fiendishly difficult novelty was admirable, and the applause — at least from the youth, packed into the standing room and the galleries — was nothing short of feverish. They could not stop calling Mahler back again and again.
I hope to write more — and perhaps more generously — if I hear this symphony again. For now, what I lack in offering a full appreciation of it is what sometimes deserts even the most inspired composers: “the grace of God.”
Is he sisterposter's ancestor? Must be the case, all this lacks is brevity and it'd be a sistershitter message
Romantic except Bruckner, Mahler and Wagner is not worth wasting your time on.
>>126780030Chopin > all those 3
now playing
start of Elgar: String Quartet in E Minor, Op. 83
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g7CLJ-Ktz4&list=OLAK5uy_mUmf2-APlk99T5Afzkpg8e3MgQyRBNmsk&index=1
start of Elgar: Piano Quintet in A Minor, Op. 84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVT-WGUukp8&list=OLAK5uy_mUmf2-APlk99T5Afzkpg8e3MgQyRBNmsk&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mUmf2-APlk99T5Afzkpg8e3MgQyRBNmsk
>To sum up, these dramatic, edgy accounts by Roscoe/BQ give us the intensity of Elgar’s Indian summer in full measure and that’s why if I could only have one recording, this would be my preference. Yet you can see I found much to savour and sometimes prefer in Donohoe/MQ. ---- Michael Greenhalgh
>>126779935The sisterposter is not capable of that kind of writing: they would have called it dogshit and left it at that
>>126780104Imagine being this mentally broken
>>126779416Corelli
Monteverdi
Couperin
Rameau
Zelenka
Telemann
>>126779459Schubert
Gluck
“It's a hobbyhorse of mine and a major worry, this Mahler cult. There are people who come to a concert only if Mahler is played. Once, after a performance of Mahler's Third Symphony, I received a letter, telling me: 'I was so moved, I wept through the whole piece. " I almost wrote back: 'You need to see a psychiatrist.' I didn't, of course. These are isolated instances, but Mahler is not well served by this cult. Maybe, after the anniversary year, it will all die down”
Exquisite. Alisa Weilerstein’s interpretation of the Bach Cello Suites is for me nothing short of transformational. I'm an amateur cellist and have CDs of all the major cellists playing the suites – three by Yo-Yo Ma, two by Janos Starker, two by Pieter Wispelwey, and versions by Pablo Casals, Pierre Fournier, Paul Tortelier, Jacqueline Du Pre, Maurice Gendron, Lynn Harrell, Mischa Maisky, Anner Bylsma, Jaap Ter Linden, Yuli Turovsky, Ralph Kirshbaum, Antonio Meneses, Truls Mork, Maria Kliegel, Mstislav Rostropovich, Steven Isserlis, Daniel Muller-Schott, Jean-Guihen Queyras, Zuill Bailey, Matt Haimovitz, and others – and Weilerstein’s is now my desert island choice. I was skeptical going in, having been distracted by her extravagant in-person body motion. But this great music is to be heard, not seen. It is uniquely gorgeous and gripping, technically brilliant and well-recorded. The preludes, allemandes, and sarabandes are especially moving, and most of the rest is joyous. Her phrasing and use of rubato do with these suites what Murray Perahia and Simone Dinnerstein do with Bach's Goldberg Variations for keyboard. Her work here moved me to tears on first hearing, and continues to engage me on subsequent hearings. I look forward to enjoying it again and again for years to come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFY3GoCx_sM&list=OLAK5uy_kM_ZxEAoco4I844xNlSvDl4nNYR_q0hbU&index=14
Baroque is really closer to Jazz than it is to Classical or Romantic, it's basically Proto-Jazz
another month, another set of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin (or Sei Solo) to try, this time by the talented and enjoyable Kyung-Wha Chung.
>After a career break of more than a decade she has announced the decision to return to the recording studio. With this album she fulfils a lifelong dream of recording the complete violin solo works by J. S. Bach, a project very close to her heart. The album, recorded at St George's Bristol, will show case Kyung-Wha Chunga the maverick of the violin that she is with her inimitable and timeless sound. Kyung-Wha Chung her words.. "I'm delighted to announce that I am so happy to be returning to the recording studio after many years for a series of exciting artistic projects. The first of these is the solo Sonatas & Partitas of J. S. Bach: a monumental task. This is the unending quest of my musical journey. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZEYnpiGMKM&list=OLAK5uy_n8gDc0eQe-UOy1acArETs-7odl2HAsPI4&index=6
Kinda yikes about the hair on the album cover, and I'm skeptical about Asian soloists performing Bach, but those aside, Chung's recordings have almost always been great -- she's got recordings of the entire standard violin repertoire which ranges from great to top-tier -- so I've got hope for this one.
>>126780330Bach would have loved Coltrane, Monk, Dolphy, and Mingus no doubt.
>>126768382>no doubt because the latter has an associated album that they can collect.You know the uploads of those pieces came off a recording too, right? You just listen to random, isolated Youtube uploads all day?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTf3JntsH8w&list=OLAK5uy_lqlhPwq2pIWNIrUDPdAO0G48HGd02ixNo&index=6
Look at that, a great performance of BWV 903 as part of a larger album containing more to enjoy, as part of an intentional context, and for ease of availability.
>>126768528Depends on the piece. Just search for recordings of the more famous ones and you're bound to find something, like with this recording for example. Similar recordings exist for Richter, Nikolayeva, Koroliov, Kempff, and more. Most great pianists have some Bach somewhere, and some have enough to make an album out of it. Otherwise, look up your favorite Bach specialist (eg Hewitt, Schiff) or prolific great pianist (eg Kempff, Brendel) or just the piece itself and find recordings it belongs to.
>>126768528Pic rel is a nifty assortment of preludes and fugues not part of bigger collections
>>126776712>>126763174I'm a bit of an outsider to classical music, but I'm genuinely curious. I can get the historically redundant part, but how could you call Rachmaninoff emotionally dishonest? Is what he's playing incongruent to his emotional state while doing so? How can one tell? When I watch clips of Wes Montgomery and Derek Trucks playing beautiful lines they look as if they're just brushing their teeth. Whereas the most banal blues shit that Johnny Depp plays looks "deep and soulful" with his motions and grimaces (no shit I know he's an actor).
>>126780526It's a troll/bait.
>Is what he's playing incongruent to his emotional state Not at all. He was probably the most depressed, neurotic composer to ever live
awnd0823
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Angela Hewitt's Bach Art of Fugue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwljcrWhw8&list=OLAK5uy_ldbQuu2l6uueuBCYNLSrbLHoYNmjYUjcI&index=8
Been forever since I heard this recording. It was actually the first Art of Fugue I ever listened to but at the time I didn't really get it or Bach, so I'm curious how I feel today. If it ends up not good, I'll switch to Koroliov's inimitable recording, but we'll see.
>Basically, what we have here is a reboot of Bach’s BWV 1080 which relegates pretty much every other recording on piano to ‘also-ran’ status. ---- Dominy Clements
>‘Hewitt’s eloquent exposition of each fugue’s “formula”, the result of a lifetime’s immersion in Bach’s music, could hardly be bettered’ (Financial Times)
>‘… playing of unusual distinction…This Art of Fugue is marvellous. The variety and beauty of tone alone make compelling listening, bringing contrasts, clarity and warmth to Bach’s intellectual marvels… radiant majesty and humanity’ (Geoff Brown, The Times)
High praise. And to cap it off with a quote from Hewitt herself, from the Clements review
>Angela Hewitt’s extensive booklet notes for this release open with her prevarication with regard to learning and performing Bach’s The Art of Fugue. “What I had heard of it never seemed to excite me very much. Neither could I believe that Bach in his final years had at last managed to write something boring.”
which continues in the same opening paragraph,
>All of these recordings have fine qualities and there are of course many more versions to explore, but Angela Hewitt’s now very much represents the top of the evolutionary tree. When it comes to Beethoven’s late piano sonatas I had the feeling that Igor Levit was giving us the ultimate ‘Software Update’ in opening the window on these works in terms of interpretative clarity. The Art of Fugue reaches comparable heights with Angela Hewitt, rendering Bach’s late enigma into something richly satisfying, deeply enjoyable, and movingly poetic.
>>126780330Bait isn’t meant to believable
I find it odd when people say "X composer doesn't have good counterpoint." Is that not the same as just saying they don't have good melodies/themes? Or are they really suggesting that while the composer does have good singular melodies, the contrapuntal ones aren't good, and since those are more difficult, they are more important and substantive for a piece?
Similar to when I've seen people attack others by saying they don't know how to listen to counterpoint. What? There's a special way? Someone enlighten me.
>>126761552Look, buddy. The point is that I originally replied to the guy who said "explain why Rach is bad without using slurs or being nationalistic". I took it as an exercise in laying out possible rational arguments about Rachmaninoff's weaknesses as a composer. I've done that. They are mostly valid, debatable points. This was never about some fanboy war. No composer is perfect, everybody has faults. I've listed several you COULD argue for. You don't need to autistically defend him like your life depends on it.
>Define itIt's a matter of balance. Overreliance = depending too heavily on a narrow set of devices. In this case, broad, sentimental lyricism repeated across many works.
>Your lack of exposure is showingYeah, whatever. Of course I'm biased, everyone is. But I don't even dislike Rach. I'm simply continuing the exercise.
>Beginners often start with Rach pieces and successfully pull them offBut this is actual horseshit, though. Beginners don't "successfully" pull off Rach pieces. That's delusional. They start with elementary pieces; simple Bach and Mozart minuets, Clementi, etc., not fucking Rach preludes. This is ridiculous. Listen to yourself.
>Many great composers weren't recognized in their timeTrue, but Rach isn't quite on that level. He's popular, yes, but not "great" in the sense of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, or Wagner. Greatness tends to combine both academic esteem, historical significance, and popularity. Rach isn't as interesting, unique, innovative, or deep as the highest tier. This isn't even about 20th century direction either, just depth and originality within his own late Romantic idiom.
>Oh yes they wereDebussy's and Ravel's innovations in orchestration, early 20th century harmonic innovations, and Stravinsky's, Bartok's, and Messiaen's rhythmic innovations were substantial. You just happen to not care about those. Innovation isn't one single vague thing. Beethoven and Wagner were monumental, but not the end of major innovation.
>>126780330I wouldn’t say it’s closer to jazz than classical or romantic, but there’s definitely some parallels. I used to follow John Mortenson really closely and he uses a combination of 16th-18th century treatises and modern jazz pedagogy to teach partimento and general baroque improvisation. You can definitely riff on La Folia or the Goldberg in the same way you can with Autumn Leaves and Fly Me To The Moon once you understand all the idiomatic rules about setting up and resolving dissonances and so forth.
>>126780766Probably the second option. When people talk about not knowing how to listen to counterpoint, it’s because it’s not a fixture in modern popular music so it can just sound like chaos til your brain learns how to hear it as two+ distinct melodies interacting with each other. It took me probably 6 months to a year of basically forcing myself to listen to Bach and reading about counterpoint til it finally clicked
huh, Yannick Nézet-Séguin has a full Bruckner cycle with Grand Montreal Metropolitan Orchestra from the mid-to-late aughts/00s, who knew? Do I dare give it a try? Am I that bored?
here's the first movement of the 4th and link to the entire cycle playlist if anyone wants to peep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WJA0adRh7A&list=OLAK5uy_kkTnCAm0_ZVolLZAMbsJo3oMJNJyF45QU&index=13
>>126780262>Rameau>Zelenka>TelemannSupremely based.
>>126780868This... sounds surprisingly very good. goddamn it, guess I'll have to listen to the whole cycle now!
>>126780883too late, I'm hooked :( I gave his Rachmaninoff another listen and I ended up loving it, so now I'm more open to listening to his recordings (fuck his Brahms tho)
>>126780766Counterpoint means two or more melodies are being played simultaneously, following a set of "rules" of harmony. In true counterpoint, all melodies are of equal value, meaning there's not just one "main" melody. Great contrapuntists have large set of skills, e.g. ability to write invertible counterpoint (meaning the two melodies will work together no matter in which voice they are played - soprano, bass, tenor or alto - allowing composers to play those melodies across different voices), canond, fugues etc.
>>126780843>No composer is perfect, everybody has faults. True, but that doesn't excuse your debatable (your own words) points.
>broad, sentimental lyricism repeated across many works.Your point could be valid if you had said "samey". Rach tends to be neurotic and depressing, yes, that has nothing to do with quality or objective criticism. Lyricism is not exclusive to Rach either.
>not fucking Rach preludes. Not all of them, but my point was that Rach wasn't deliberately " virtuoso for the sake of virtuosity" type as some like to claim, except when he was writing Etudes.
>You just happen to not care about those. I do. Speaking of historical significance, where's that chart of consensus about innovation? It was right on point. I'm not denying nor disliking Debussy, Ravel or Bartok, in fact I love Bartok.
>>126780903No, I get that, it just seems strange to single those lines out specifically as opposed to just saying they don't have good melodies.
>>126780856Fair enough. And yeah, same.
>>126780918No, they can have good melodies, but may choose to not add any counterpoint to them, instead opting for accompaniments (chords,harmony). Or simply being unable to add counterpoint. "Good counterpoint" implies skill of combining melodies(not necessarily great ones), and not writing a great melody.
>>126780957Hmm, fair enough, well stated.
dnawi02
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speaking of Bruckner 4, Chailly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uck58ZbsDxo&list=OLAK5uy_mo1TzlLQeVyfs5TMTJkvTeDpMuDLvctYM&index=1
What does mu think of Virgil Thomson?
>>126780903>True, but that doesn't excuse your debatable (your own words) points.They're perfectly legitimate criticisms.
>Your point could be valid if you had said "samey". Rach tends to be neurotic and depressing, yes, that has nothing to do with quality or objective criticism. Lyricism is not exclusive to Rach either.I already explained the point about lyricism in depth. I feel like Rachmaninoff over relies on it, and sometimes other parameters suffer. That's it. It isn't hard to grasp. But sure, "samey" works fine.
>Not all of them, but my point was that Rach wasn't deliberately " virtuoso for the sake of virtuosity" type as some like to claim, except when he was writing Etudes.None of them, you fucking idiot. No beginner starts out with Rachmaninoff preludes. Not a single one. If they do, they fail miserably and either quit or find something easier. But this is a different point from the "virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity" point.
>Speaking of historical significance, where's that chart of consensus about innovation?I don't care about some fucking chart. These things aren't exactly quantifiable.
We could go back and forth on this, but I think the exercise has reached its ending point. I'm a big fan of Etudes-Tableaux, to be honest.
I love this recording so fucking much
Glen Gould said Mozart became a bad composer; here's why SCIENCE says he's wrong
>>126781580I like to think Gould recognized Mozart's extraordinary talent but was disappointed that Mozart didn't use that talent to go where he, Gould, wanted him to go
>>126781749no, Gould was just a retard
>if you're impressed by Gould's thoughts on music, chances are you haven't read much music theory or music criticism. Some of his comments are just asininely ignorant of historical processes (like praising the "quasi-serial" properties of mediant relationships in Beethoven op. 109; in such a vague manner that it is almost impossible to relate his commentary to the music), some display a lack of sensibility for tonal process in general (his main complaint about the first movement of Mozart's c minor concerto? that it has a clearly established secondary tonic), others praise parts of Mozart that are quite conventional (the succession of diminished seventh chords at the onset of the great g minor symphony's finale development section) because they somehow point forward to Schoenberg. Gould trivialized the rest of the movement, which is far more complex and far less conventional (successions of diminished seventh chord are at least as old as Bach).
>>126781790Fair enough. Nobody's without fault. Clearly Mozart was his blind spot.
now playing, in honor of Brendel's passing
start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 12 in A-Flat Major, Op. 26 "Funeral March"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOHTfectD-o&list=OLAK5uy_nezqo6LWYy50kbYTMhsc8w58jQ6GtGfCk&index=41
start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 13 in E-Flat Major, Op. 27 No. 1 "Quasi una fantasia"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g0iu0JZumc&list=OLAK5uy_nezqo6LWYy50kbYTMhsc8w58jQ6GtGfCk&index=45
start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 27 No. 2 "Moonlight"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxnhJvjmqig&list=OLAK5uy_nezqo6LWYy50kbYTMhsc8w58jQ6GtGfCk&index=48
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nezqo6LWYy50kbYTMhsc8w58jQ6GtGfCk
RIP
>>126781749That's exactly what he says in his famous video, it's just autists don't watch it and put words in his mouth
>>126781790>Glen Gould said Mozart became a bad composer; here's why EXPERTS say he was wrong
The Prague String Quartet's Dvorak set is so far and away the best recording of Dvorak's string quartets, it's kinda disappointing for the rest of the ensembles who have also recorded some or all of those pieces. The recent Vogler Quartet shows some promise, except their overly mellifluous sonority verges into sugary annoyance if listened for too long.
Herreweghe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IxsFEZTsco&list=OLAK5uy_l7LO50FVvklhC_o-IvZFz1T6RtwJvxVLU&index=18
i can't stand cover art that is just a pretentious image of the conductor looking overly pleased with themselves. i guess it's much harder to create a piece of art that genuinely represents the music instead of just some boring, self-congratulatory image. it also takes the focus away from the real artist, the composer. sadly, a lot of great recordings have these types of covers, but i always appreciate how nice Solti covers are.
>>126783532It's generally the smartest or at least easiest way to market the recording, because the primary differentiator between recordings is the conductor. Why buy one release over another, what makes it better? The conductor. So we put them on the cover so it's easy to tell. etc.
So I don't mind pictures of the conductor. It's certainly not as nice as some good artwork or design, but I don't mind it.
>>126783532>>126783568Sir George Solti looks like this so that's the better options
Rachmaninoff > everyone else
>>126784948in terms of shittiness maybe
The ending to Bach's St. Matthew Passion is so beautiful it hurts, bros...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn6hKinnZKM
i think it might be the single most beautiful classical piece to exist
>>126784948in terms of greatness maybe
Why do there seem to be so few Dutch composers? Did they spend all their mana on visual arts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R798oIha2Jk&list=OLAK5uy_mGsg2KRQYYxMUHEnVaWYwk6fipMoCZ4aM&index=4
>>126785062For me its the ending of the mass in b minor
>>126785147Who cares? We have many Germans and Austrians, and there's little difference between them and the dutch.
>>126780870this but Telemann isnt even that necessary imo but Lully is
>>126785220Just thought it was curious
Handel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fejFH6lHpk
One day people will come to recognize Elgar's Op. 61 as the greatest violin concerto of all-time. When that day comes, we will know we have entered into an enlightened era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9G3aNpJD_I&list=OLAK5uy_leg1WeB81EL0NuFFG1alXScpVXthdcKZk&index=1
>>126779416>>126780262>>126780870>>126785222>no Vivaldiactual pseudo-intellectual plebeians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4XOkQijIE0
music for WW3?
https://youtu.be/mczvfByofiw?t=188
>>126785837If you're in the West, Beethoven's 9th. If you're in Iran, Shostakovich's 7th.
>>126785623why the fuck is it always lovers of middle-tier composers like Shostakovich and Vivaldi that call others 'pseudo-intellectuals'?
>>126783532I love looking around for paintings that best fit my idea of the music haha.
Abbado!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQy2h1NwpZ4&list=OLAK5uy_lP-i9kXg005GhuWXbCeaB6jxZFgpAve0o&index=1
>This recording was listed second as one of the four best of this work by critic Stephen Johnson in his feature "Building a Library" for the Feburary 2010 issue of THE BBC MUSIC MAGAZINE. His other choices were, first, Klemperer's 1957 recording on Testament, third, Furtwangler's 1951 take on Naxos and EMI, and Toscanini in 1952 on RCA.
Rimsky-Korsakov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzOpOLjKNVA
so now that the dust has settled, what's the best recording of Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony?
>>126786203https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdekTYj7_Ao
okay I was wrong, this Giltburg Beethoven piano sonata sucks. avoid.
I mean just compare this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9E-gGat-0&list=OLAK5uy_lMxOHq5YqpzvBpY6aBGmpTESxItA-CQoA&index=1
with an actually good performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vOaHhrVio&list=OLAK5uy_mjl_6sr5wHicSLQphYBf2J0xp1u5jheb0&index=57
I was beginning to think "oh maybe I just don't like any of these earlier Beethoven piano sonatas anymore" but when you get to Pathetique and it doesn't sound good, when you get above the 10th and it doesn't sound good, when you get into the teens and it doesn't sound good, when you get to the 16th and it still doesn't sound good... yeah, might be time to try a different set, ya feel? Need to clear my ears out.
>>126786269this Giltburg Beethoven piano sonata set* sucks
now playing
start of Rachmaninoff: Symphony No. 3 in A Minor, Op. 44
www.youtube.com/watch?v=puWhkWjBjX0&list=OLAK5uy_k1FyqFypkEFOSvth5pGvN57L20dSaQRXU&index=1
start of Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances, Op. 45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7akwYeVjhe0&list=OLAK5uy_k1FyqFypkEFOSvth5pGvN57L20dSaQRXU&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k1FyqFypkEFOSvth5pGvN57L20dSaQRXU
>>126786269>actually good>barenboimI appreciate your subtle trolling, so here's a >you
I didn't know Pollini had a complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas set. Is it good?
best recording of Handel's Water Music?
>>126781406Thank you for the rec.
Bach
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6ssangufk&si=8TZ9slSpSDR9EWHg
>>126785062Out of the way for the king of Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20UP2vE0Ig
>>126785222Further proof that Telemann is underrated...
>>126788702Name 10 of Telemann’s best pieces…
>>126780316> desert island choicehello Dave
i think we can all agree this is the best Beethoven cycle.
i think we can all agree this is the best Beethoven cycle.
>>126788816>>126788792No one listens to beethoven.
>still obsessing over complete cycles
You haven't been listening to classical music long enough
>>126788792>>126788816Kletzki with Czech Philharmonic is personally my go-to for any Beet symphony.
>>126788958i get multiple cycles instead of individual recordings usually, i like having multiple different recordings for all symphonies.
>>126788936“Wand does not take listeners to the heights reached regularly by Karajan”
>>126788721Quartetto in G major, TWV 43:G2
Concerto à 4 in G major, TWV 43:G1
Ouverture-Suite in E minor, TWV 55:e1
Ouverture-Suite in B-flat major, TWV 55:B1
Flute Sonata in B minor, TWV 41:h4
Sonata à 4 in D minor, TWV 43:d1
Sonata à 4 in E minor, TWV 43:e2
Trio Sonata in D major, TWV 42:D5
Oboe Sonata in G minor, TWV 41:g6
Trio Sonata in E-flat major, TWV 42:Es1
>>126789420You're welcome.
CHOPIN IS THE BEST ARTIST
CHOPIN IS THE BEST
>>126788721start here:
https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/telemann/telgp.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocWPF8mW-dQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip_-8dTu4aQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWs7CzIgzX4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTM8k91dSts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4BjXibc3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvgJSchkyJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ShCoGb3RFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySdqDf7COQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD5KYMHUEiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srYBmX70ws
Is this the place to ask about equipment to begin playing keyboard/piano? I live near the physical Sweetwater HQ building and the room with all the synths looks so cool but i have no idea what I'm doing or where to start out and what a fair price point for a beginner's equipment would be.
>>126790218>synthsthis is a respectable joint. get the fuck out of here and never return.
>>126790225I don't mean to disrespect the original physical instruments but it's not currently feasible for me to play something that would have to make a lot of physical noise.
>>126790244go away, peasant.
>>126790218Talk to an AI.
If you want to play classical, you'll need something with weighted keys/hammer action. But that might cost you 500$+, whereas an upright piano will be much cheaper, only downside is that you'll have to tune it every now and then. If you don't want to play classical, I concur with
>>126790254
>>126790244>physical noisewhat about spiritual noise?
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