Thread 126814334

Antoine Busnois Edition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPoaNhE_FC4

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh

Previous:>>126790715

first for brahms

Which is the better version of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg: Kubelik or Solti?

why are modern opera singers so much wobblier than old ones? does ANYONE like this?

>>126814506
Sawallisch

Agricola

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJy6plHOAF0

>>126814948
>does ANYONE like this?
Kek, no. But pseuds who don't know any better just force themselves to listen to it.

Schumann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8d_xb6N0Kc

Stefan Mickisch was the most based pianist of the century.

>>126815429
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCYrLlbV3Uo
F

>>126814504
Kek

Do people really enjoy listening to fugues?

>>126814948
Bad teachers
Young people ruining their voices too early (eager to fill the big roles)
Less specialist singers, more generalized singers (master of none)
Larger orchestras requiring louder singing
Less talent coming in since opera isn't the celebrity magnet it used to be
The decline of chest singing in favor of head singing (comes back around to teachers being shit and larger orchestras requiring louder singing)
Moronic producers chasing off talent because the productions are so ludicrous and embarrassing

There are so many reasons as to why opera singing has gone down the drain and there is basically a 0% chance we'll even get the quality of the 90s back, let alone the 80s or 70s. We have a better chance of AI becoming good enough that it can revive Melchior in stereo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjpZ1RGsaIg&list=RDmjpZ1RGsaIg&start_radio=1&ab_channel=ElectroDreams

>>126815776
>The decline of chest singing in favor of head singing (comes back around to teachers being shit and larger orchestras requiring louder singing)
But isn't chest singing louder than head singing?

>>126816085
When opera makes up a significant portion of classical masterpieces and great works, it's kinda important. If R. Strauss appeared to me in my dreams tonight and I mentioned how much I loved his orchestral music, he would reply, "thanks but what do you think about my operas?" and if I replied I didn't care about opera, he would be very disappointed.

>>126816108
An intriguing hypothetical homosexual sister

>>126816108
Strauss was a money grubber. fuck his opinions.

>>126815993
Yes, but it generally requires for technical finesse and proper teaching. Head singing is easier, especially for higher pitched music (concert pitch has raised since the early 20th century, though it depends on the region). At my Conservatory most vocal teachers focused on mixed/head singing and didn't really teach proper chest voice technique, I think the perceptual brightness from head voice is a tempting way to stand out from a large orchestra. Yes, your voice isn't as loud per se, but it projects outwards more since higher/brighter voices are always going to zip through the other frequencies. This is why most modern tenors sound nasally as fuck btw, they're all singing in their head.

And was there something a little Jewish about Strauss? So said the anti-Semitic French journal La Libre Parole. It did not go unnoticed that Strauss enjoyed the company of Jewish millionaires. Arthur Schnitzler once said to Alma Mahler, with ambiguous intent: "If one of the two, Gustav Mahler or Richard Strauss, is a Jew, then surely it is ... Richard Strauss!"

>>126816252
Funny but I swear you wignats just make this anecdotes up.

>>126816733
That's a passage from Alex Ross' "The Rest Is Noise".

>wignats
I'm a philosemite if anything.

now playing

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 15 in C Major, D. 840 "Reliquie"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDboFTiIT24&list=OLAK5uy_mAFsRLqmjaoJUTZfIM0WDxcgnJ1b8aFIE&index=2

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 18 in G Major, D. 894
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Sq1MlVgic&list=OLAK5uy_mAFsRLqmjaoJUTZfIM0WDxcgnJ1b8aFIE&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mAFsRLqmjaoJUTZfIM0WDxcgnJ1b8aFIE

Why does Brendel have haters? He's not my favourite pianist, but I don't see anything excessively bad about him that's deserving of hate.

best recording of Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex?

>>126815749
If they have a nice theme

>>126814504
>>126815675
go back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F734PyD3NAw&list=RDF734PyD3NAw&start_radio=1

>>126815776
>Less specialist singers, more generalized singers (master of none)
Why do I constantly read stuff like
>he specializes for Verdi's roles
>she focuses on Puccini operas
etc.
Because it makes it seem like there are still a lot of specialists, but none of them are actually any good.

Bruckner's original versions or revisions? Which ones are better? Was listening to his symphony no. 4 performed in the original version and it's surprising how different it is

Scriabin, my beloved...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhAQjqfew2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCcTI4jRY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAIlO9w34o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_7nOxeFi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwj1cCL9Lsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpKiFAF19I

>>126817931
his revisions of course. stop asking stupid questions.

>>126817941
>Scriabin, my beloved

that's a bit gay, m8.

>>126817931
his original versions of course. stop asking stupid questions.

>>126817944
>Gutmann's version of Bruckner 7
>Schalk version of Bruckner 5
>Löwe version of Bruckner 9
I don't know man, I like the Nowak versions and the like as much as the next guy. But don't pretend that the revisions made in Bruckner's lifetime were 100% on point and not at all messed with

>>126817931
listen to both at the same time

Best Scriabin interpreter?

>>126818150
Karl Richter

>>126818172
But he never played scriabin though?

>>126818187
Precisely

>>126818150
Lettberg.

I didn't know Bruckner made 3 versions of the scherzo of the ninth. There should be a recording available on the Bruckner society. Anybody have a link to these?

>>126818258
Richter is better, I agree with anon

>>126818150
Hammelin, Ohlsson, Ashkenazy, Szidon

>>126816085
you quite literally don't like classical and have simply yet to realize it

Other romantic pieces with a strong sense of nostalgia like Waltz 2 - Shostakovich?

>>126818514
I gotchu senpai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sj5wq4EIRg&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD

>>126818150
Ignore everyone else, the answer is always Lettberg

>>126818514
There's bunch. Are you new? If so, pick up a Chopin collection and start there, that's enough to keep a nostalgiafag full for months.

>>126818562
stop spamming this

>>126818858
Why would I, when Lettberg is the best Scriabin interpreter?

why couldn't classical composers (generally speaking) be bothered to come up with titles for their works?

"form number # in xyz major". the only logical reason is you specifically don't want your shit to be known by the wider public.

>>126818865
because that opinion had already been shared a few posts ago, and repeating it adds nothing of worth to the Anon's request. but much more importantly, your "advice" to "ignore everyone else" shows me that your counsel is, at best, a detrimental one for the sake of a forced meme and, at worst, simply spamming

What are the best 18th century lieder? Did Mozart write any good ones? I've already listened to Beethoven's.

>>126818973
Well, it's clear this place is full of bad actors who want nothing more than to denigrate Lettberg, so it's for the best that I warn anon against them.

>>126817931
Ultimately it depends on the symphony but if you can identify whichever edition Bruckner himself put in his will I would start with that. Hurwitz did a video on it.
https://youtu.be/C8zjw-pEmDM

reminder that if you are listening to a recording made after the 1940s you are literally listening to pop music.

i love Choppin :)

>>126819409
Scriabin shouldn't be played by hylics like Lettberg

>>126819409
the only "bad actors" here are meme-addicts who would rather force their snarky opinions veiled with humor down the general's throat at the expense of other people's musical discoveries

>>126818150
Sofronitsky, Zhukov, *Sviatoslav* Richter, Ashkenazy, Horowitz, Alexeev isn't bad.

>>126819649
Yes, a shame that Scriabin is being gatekept by hiss-addicted meme freaks with a campaign of hatred against Lettberg.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBJmi3wDw0

good tempo

>>126819183
>Did Mozart write any good ones

Abendempfindung

>>126819755
This

Might add vinyl hiss to Yuja Wang performances and upload them as rare historical recordings.

>>126820071
Top kek. So many retards will fall for it.

>mfw I listen to classical

>>126817257
Too plain and middle-of-the-road, I suppose.

>>126817603
I like Ozawa.

>>126817931
I think there are some nice recordings of the originals (eg Tintner, Nagano) which are fun to listen to for some variety, but c'mon, we all know the answer.

>>126817000
As time goes on, Uchida might be my favorite performer of Schubert's solo piano pieces. Only Paul Lewis comes close.

Literally the only time Offenbach is mentioned is to rhyme and contrast with Bach. Did he compose anything truly great?

damn, I am in love with Arrau's Beethoven Piano Sonatas cycle. Don't know why I waited so long to finally try it. It definitely already ranks with my other favorites of Gilels and Backhaus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihP5n4sBVus&list=OLAK5uy_mgcxeWRckHc6JIZBB5G7J-8AmQClZuUDo&index=96

Beethoven performed in the tragic vein with hints of metaphysical depths, of divine transcendence. That said, I can see why someone wouldn't like it, and it explains why the sisterposter had a apoplectic fit even time Arrau was mentioned, spewing vitriolic abuse that was extreme even for them.

>>126820632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsBlL-oHAj8
operettas

>>126821044
perhaps a better sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzkSPQ_HioA&list=OLAK5uy_mgcxeWRckHc6JIZBB5G7J-8AmQClZuUDo&index=52

>>126821064
his late beethoven recordings are good, especially the slow movemens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqLUp7Rv98&list=OLAK5uy_lhrtmuKsLs7X_-9Qh2ulJJEIqbV0XZm4k&index=6

feels like a Shostakovich 5 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y95Tl_tjOQc&list=OLAK5uy_kVSWk1pUivUxdC3oSh40mZK3INnx_ESOY&index=2

We now listen to one of Hovanhess's earlier symphonies; the oft maligned "Exile"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ITnukC88fg&list=RD2ITnukC88fg&start_radio=1&ab_channel=SergioC%C3%A1novas

>>126821177
Oh damn, I had heard he recorded the sonatas again in his old age, but I couldn't find the set. Damn, all of those movements for the Pastorale add at least 30 seconds and up to a minute to the runtime! Wild. Fortunately I like the contemplative, tragic approach.

>>126821221
Good stuff. Let's get textured
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uadqlg6CPo&list=OLAK5uy_mSB95RPTTw59jnlKe3EEemgGCLIciMiRE&index=5

You got any thoughts on his string quartets and solo piano music?

>>126821472
Haven't heard them

>>126818468
It does tickle me when people tell me about what I do and don't like

>>126818468
I listen to classical music every day, think about it when I'm not listening, study scores, harmony, form, analysis, learning music theory to appreciate those pieces even more. And you're telling me I don't like classical music because I dislike vocal music? I am likely more obsessed with it more than you ever were.

>>126821472
Yeah sorry I've only started listening to him so I haven't heard. I think I like Lousadzak the most

favorite Piano Concertos?

>>126821216
You have my condolences my guy

The curiously titled "And God Created Great Whales"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJOBhi2IYRQ&list=RDRJOBhi2IYRQ&start_radio=1&ab_channel=SeattleSymphony-Topic

>>126822233
Mozart's, obviously.

>>126822233
Brahms' two piano concertos are the peak of the form. That aside, Beethoven 3-5, Tchaikovsky's 1 and 2, Rachmaninoff's 1-4, Chopin's 1 and 2, Dvorak's, Prokofiev's 1-5, Bartok's 1-3, Schumann's, Grieg's, and more.

>>126822233
Objectively speaking, this is how the ranking goes:

Rach 2 = > Brahms 2 = Rach 3 = Schumann = Mozart 23 > Prokofiev 2, 3 > Mozart 20 > Mozart 24 > Chopin 1 > Rach 1 > Mozart 21, 25 > Rach 4

Honorable mentions: Grieg's, Beethoven's 5 and Tchaikovsky's 1st, Brahms 1, Ravel's, Bartok's 3

There are more, very good ones in fact, but they're all below the above. Except Saint-Saens', I feel those can rank quite high but I still have to get into them properly.

Piano concerto is the greatest genre.

>peak of the form
Piano Concerto no.2 by Rachmaninoff, obviously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2xQodIz01s&list=OLAK5uy_lgVzHhxfdv3NXjHGu_2cb1jEuh7RdahIQ&index=33

now playing

start of Dvořák: Piano Concerto in G Minor, Op. 33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH1W3xZt_O8&list=OLAK5uy_nJD6BoalC9AdY1f1qAqaESPOuTCHeeIgE&index=2

Schumann: Introduction & Allegro Appassionato, Op. 92
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD-ghxIO_U8&list=OLAK5uy_nJD6BoalC9AdY1f1qAqaESPOuTCHeeIgE&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nJD6BoalC9AdY1f1qAqaESPOuTCHeeIgE

>Andras Schiff's dazzling performance of the Dvorak Concerto, like Sviatoslav Richter's classic EMI version, has me marvelling that this is a neglected work. ---- Gramophone

>>126823248
This Dvorak one gets overlooked imo, particularly if one is a fan of Dvorak otherwise. If one doesn't like Dvorak, however, then it probably won't shine, similar to the case with liking Chopin's.

>>126823248
What do you think of Liszt's two piano concertos?

>>126823302
I like some Dvorak, let's see.

>>126823248
slavsloppers embarrassing themselves again

>>126823312
I think the 1st is quite good. Not great, but that theme from 1st movement is super catchy lol. Not sure about 2nd, if you have recording recs I'll listen to it.
>>126823339
Thank you kraurslopper sister

>>126823339
Feel free to post your own opinions. Otherwise, don't hate :D

>>126823248
cute

>>126823248
How did I forget to include Medtner's 2nd bruh. That one is amazing as well, somewhere between Mozart 24 ane Chopin I guess.
>>126823354
He probably wouldn't be able to name more than 5 concertos without searching it up.

>>126823302
lol those pics of Dohnanyi and Schiff.

>my parents' face (Dohnanyi) they walk in on me (Schiff) and my gf going at it on their bed

What is the slowest Meistersinger overture recording? No hiss please

>>126823511
Cobra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYI2gDTy5cc

>>126823511
Celibidache maybe

>>126823511
>No hiss please
don't worry, most old Wagner conductors were too idiomatic to conduct it slowly

>>126823696
Almost forgot about that geriatric. It's a bit on the slow side, but I expected slower, disappointed.

Where's the Vagnerposting? It was the sovl of this general. Did Wagnersister finally unalive itself?

now playing, more piano concerti

start of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 in E Minor, Op. 11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yhUqqVb118&list=OLAK5uy_kMPrxsKDeRkMmPX2Fi4gqWqz40_CJJb9A&index=2

start of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 2 in F Minor, Op. 21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tlJqdDJ-Ok&list=OLAK5uy_kMPrxsKDeRkMmPX2Fi4gqWqz40_CJJb9A&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kMPrxsKDeRkMmPX2Fi4gqWqz40_CJJb9A

These are some nutty runtimes, never seen these piano concertos take so long to play, so presumably these will have very slow tempi. Also, poor Inbal and the London Phil., can't even get their name on the cover :(

I am still a bit confuse with concertos in terms of form. What is the textbook explanation of concerto -first movement form vs the traditional sonata allegro form for the other types of instrumental music present?

>>126824674
>ARRAUW!!!!

>>126824674
that album sucks, i like this one for chopin concertos, the 1st with klemperer and the 2nd with busch, well if you can stand some hiss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwAF9ZWqxz4&list=OLAK5uy_mfYZZ5O7mAIis6QvBeATHWUvCz4tlaYr8&index=4

>>126824866
Funny, that's what Jed Distler says too,
>Claudio Arrau's meditative and weighty traversals of the concertos pale compared to the dynamism and note-to-note intensity of his live fifties versions. Eliahu Inbal's deferential, soggy leadership doesn't help either. Both musicians, though, rise to the rarely played Krakowiak's formidable challenges. --Jed Distler

Meh, at that point, if I end up not liking it, I'd rather just listen to a more recent recording, like Lang Lang/Mehta, Zimerman, Argerich/Dutoit, Cho/Noseda, etc. Though I'll give that one a quick peep, thanks.

>>126824866
yeah okay, that one I posted is pretty dull lol

>>126823816
>enjoyer of forced memes says "sovl" too
not surprising

Chailly!
https://litter.catbox.moe/sci0w5f11kaul3nf.flac

>>126821915
yes, that is what I'm telling you

>>126821915
>I am likely more obsessed with it more than you ever were.
oh shit, get 'em!

Jian Wang's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGyUsJEEZBE&list=OLAK5uy_kge6CokvVLURNgGs0qsvF8KhuE1ZL8e1Y&index=28

This music makes no sense to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305DUJINGWo&list=RD305DUJINGWo&start_radio=1&ab_channel=ViolinPlayAlong

>>126826159
the Brahms fog filtered you.

>>126823248
thank you indian child

>>126823816
I remember still the first time I saw the Vagner meme.
It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.
Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"
/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.
I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.
They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.

>>126826248
>Brahms is nonetheless now so advanced that all truly insightful, good musicians, unless they want to make fools of themselves, must acknowledge him as the greatest of living composers. . . . Even if Lessman takes such pains to disperse Brahms and the Brahms fog [Brahmsnebel ] (to use Tappert's term), the Brahms fog will remain. And I much prefer it to the white heat [Gluthitze ] of Wagner and Strauss.
- Reger in 1894

The Prelude, and by extension the whole opera, begins with a musical moan: a hushed woe-filled rising minor sixth played by the cellos. The phrase to which it belongs is sometimes called the Liebestrank or love potion motif. In his first complete sketch of the Prelude’s opening seventeen-measure unit, Wagner used, rather than the sixth from A to F, a tritone from B to F.[27] The tritone conveys the extreme tension of the erotic will, but it lacks the moodiness of the minor interval and mutes to some extent the shock of the Tristan chord, which contains this same tritone. Wagner must have realized that the sixth was better suited to Schopenhauerian gloom and to what the opening of his opera musically and dramatically required. The haunted sound of this sixth is love’s dark longing rising out of the depths of the soul. It is the felt onset and intimation of what Isolde calls the böse Ferne or “evil distance” that separates lovers. But the sixth also has a cosmological meaning. In mythic terms, it is the infinitely sad emergence of the phenomenal world out of the depths of the Will. At the very moment that the cellos complete their phrase on a G-sharp (the raised seventh of A minor), bassoons, clarinets, English horns, and oboes join the cellos to form the Tristan chord. Sounded mostly by wind instruments, the chord is the first breath of the newborn world of things, the burst of the World Spirit into Baudelaire’s brumeuse existence, gloomy existence. World and Woe come on the scene together. In a letter to Mathilde Wesendonck, Wagner puts forth this very connection between the opening of Tristan and the Buddhist story of creation as the primordial “troubling” of the originally cloudless heaven.

Rautavaara

https://youtu.be/XOVNYHkTeEk

Is Stokowski's Mahler 8th any good?

>>126826677
holy pseud. even my posts aren't that cringe inducing.

>>126826913
what else did you expect from "Catholic intellectuals"? lmao.

>>126826677
>>126826974
>Richard Wagner’s Tristan and Isolde should prompt us to search for an antidote to the lovers’ death wish—to pursue a love that preserves rather than destroys, celebrates rather than abolishes individuality, and seeks life rather than death.
Kek, it reads the exact opposite moral into the story than Wagner intended.

>>126827302
the reviewer was wrong for assuming an artwork is inherently low brow if it is nothing more than entertainment. In fact, music is often better when it has no literal message.

>>126827374
I do resent the word 'entertainment' being applied to great art. I agree that music doesn't necessarily have to 'express' anything specific in words, or art have to have some philosophical meaning, for it to be great, but then referring to it as 'entertainment' is already pigeonholing it in the opposite direction.

>>126827512
I don't deny that Wagner's ring cycle is capeshit but it is the best capeshit ever made.

>>126827552
Is all opera capeshit?

>>126827564
just the ring cycle.

>>126827603
What about Lohengrin?

>>126827606
alright, Lohengrin and Tannhauser too but you know what I mean.

>>126827631
But there's no capes in Tannhauser.

I WILL NOT BE SEATED NEXT TO THIS EMISSARY OF SATAN

>>126827739
what is it like having crippling autism?

>>126827954
you are mad cause he has a bigger collection than you
many such cases

>>126828151
Don Giovanni has a cape.

>>126828162
has Hurwitz ever said how many CDs and box sets he owns? It must be around 100,000 or something. I wish I had a collection like that.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbAaM9tIYhs&pp=0gcJCf0Ao7VqN5tD

these pianists who only record book I of Bach's WTC but not book II are such a tease, especially because it almost always ends up really good too

I am still a bit confuse with concertos in terms of form. What is the textbook explanation of concerto -first movement form vs the traditional sonata allegro form for the other types of instrumental music present?

>>126828400
a concerto is a multi-movement work for a principal soloist and a supporting orchestra.

>>126828414
but then what's a Concerto for Orchestra :O

>>126828292
Very nice

>>126828431
an in-joke.

>>126828414
I know that part, I mean the first-movement FORM. Like it's supposedly a variation of sonata form except instead of a repeat the soloist repeats the themes. But the developmental style of a concerto is way more akin to variations than traditional sonata form development. So I want to know what's the textbook way people describe the form of a concerto compared to the symphony in terms of their form and development.

>>126828451
there are textbook definitions but they aren't strictly followed in practice so what's the point?

>>126828466
Ugh, CUNT. Sure the textbook definition is not ALL ENFUCKINGCOMPASSING, it's a good way to understand the form easier. Like with Sonata-Allegro form. The style of development is mainly about fragmenting the musical material, utilizing the rhythms to make new melodies, generally just not exactly restating the theme (Unless you're a slavic composer). Concertos I generally hear more exact restatements of the melody with embellishments or with a line by the soloist over it. This feels more like variations than traditional development. So in TEXTBOOK form, what do composers change in their approach when composing a concerto vs a sonata?
>DURRRRRRR THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS
And the sky is fucking red sometimes, if you do not have anything of value to say, don't say anything at all and kill yourself while you're at it you fucking FAGGOT

just go through Schoenberg's textbooks and practice playing/improvising on an actual fucking instrument. according to textbooks symphonies should have the following layout:

Sonata Allegro - Tonic
Binary Adagio - Parallel Tonic
Ternary Scherzo/Dance - Dominant
Finale/Fugue - Tonic

>>126828592
meant for:

>>126828550

>>126828592
>>126828601
>What is the textbook way to describe this form?
>*Gives every answer except the textbook definition of the form*
At this point a LMGTFY would have been more useful, and googling has not even given any results.

>>126828619
the problem is you think composing is like pouring jelly into molds but to answer your question I think the techniques of overlapping phrases and call and response are some of most important elements of a concerto. The soloist and the orchestra should work together harmoniously.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYXsIFER9jk

>>126827552
the ring has nothing to do with capeshit this is just gibberish

>>126828876
the ring cycle was 1870s capeshit.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdvmZjeQE8

>>126823248
>Rach 2
>good
Lol!

.

What causes this?

>>126829261
>>126829270
your memes are bad and you should feel bad.

>>126829272
They're not my memes, though. Just images I've gathered through the years.

>>126829287
well we'd really prefer if you didn't post them. we don't like humor or laughter

Why is Mahler so imitated in movie soundtracks? What makes his music more suitable to films than Bruckner, Strauss, Wagner or Liszt?

>>126829380
It's schmaltz

>>126826708
Very good, yes. Just has limited mono sound. Stokowski was an excellent Mahler conductor, I wish he did more than the 2nd and 8th.

What is the fastest set of recordings for Mozart's piano concertos ever recorded?

best Shostakovich 4 recording?

>>126829227
True. It's great. Greatest of all time. And that ranking is 100% objectively correct!
>>126829380
Wagner is the godfather of epic movie soundtracks

>>126830305
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5TrxxEaXU4&list=OLAK5uy_mydSYwnGV34SwzziNfP55LtTmmepAuESA&index=1

There's lots of great ones though. Just pick your favorite Shostakovich conductor and go from there.

>>126829380
Video game soundtracks too. That's just the power of genius, it defines an era.

Almost every film and game soundtrack composers credit Wagner, and rarely Strauss or anybody else. Look up interviews from those film composers.

>>126814506
Solti recording lives permanently in my heart.

Wagner.

>>126830352
inoue, but i cant find it now

What do we think of Bylsma's 1992 Bach Cello Suites set?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUvY3AtUP2k&list=OLAK5uy_k9XDfFjl5DQ1oOBGMsPz3vK_KfxRiSCtw&index=31

Any recs for lesser-known string quartets or other string ensemble pieces from the romantic era to early 20th century? I already know and love Beethoven's, Schumann's, Mendelssohn's, Dvorak's, Elgar's, Franck's, Grieg's, Atterberg's, Tchaikovsky's, Glazunov's, Myaskovsky's, Schubert's, Brahms', Ravel's, Debussy's, Borodin's, Janacek's, Sibelius', Faure's, Smetana's, Nielsen's, Britten's, Shostakovich's, and Bartok's. Surely there's got to be more?

>>126830852
Oh, and Zemlinsky's, before someone recs his, which are great and worthwhile.

>>126830852
Pfitzner, Georg Schumann

>>126830902
Pfitzner wrote string quartets/ensemble music? Huh. Neat, thanks.

Also I'm downloading that Glazunov String Quartet cycle performed by the Utrecht SQ, should be good!

>>126830920
>Glazunov String Quartet cycle performed by the Utrecht SQ, should be good!
It is. Those string quartets are too beautiful. Surprisingly not on Youtube, but it was on Rutracker - for anyone else curious.
>>126830852
Are there even any good ones left?

>>126831049
>Are there even any good ones left?
That's my worry :( Then again I only recently discovered the Atterberg ones and those were solid, so, y'know, holding out hope lol. But do I think there is some still undiscovered Beethoven SQ 14 or Schubert's Death and the Maiden out there for me to listen to yet? Nah. Something decent though for variety? I hope.

by this point Mozart is the only music that doesn't sound pretentious to me

now playing

start of Dvorak: String Quartet No. 10 in E-Flat Major, Op. 51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpxwNdDFRU&list=OLAK5uy_l0QZL1ZOHuvCx40_eHSoYOlTJK0p9h7bI&index=2

start of Dvorak: String Quartet No. 11 in C Major, Op. 61
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hAs_O6zr1I&list=OLAK5uy_l0QZL1ZOHuvCx40_eHSoYOlTJK0p9h7bI&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l0QZL1ZOHuvCx40_eHSoYOlTJK0p9h7bI

Dvorak's 12th String Quartet gets all the attention, and for good reason, but his other late string quartets, the 10th, 11th, 13th, and 14th, are almost as incredible, and the even earlier ones ought not be neglected if you're into Dvorak.

Speaking about Bach's music seems quite impossible for me. It's like speaking about the Milky Way or the Michelangelo's Pietà - they simply exist for ever and charm for ever without any need to explain them. Bach's music is overwhelming and all-embracing by itself, as a mysterious Universe unceasingly pulsating and breathing so much humanity. You can only marvel at it and let it traverse you without any other comment. Its logical and mighty structures - apparently monotone but so full of substance - unfold Bach's consummate knowledge of the sounds' science. But there is more than science or even art. It is a point of departure for a fabulous inward travel in searching ourselves, our most intimate thoughts, feelings, acts. Its apparent simplicity gets mere transcendence and mediates rather a mystic ecstasy. However, this giant of the baroque music, also known as the "modest cantor at the Thomaskirche in Leipzig", composed permanently watching God. Therefore, his music gathers solemnity, fervour, serenity, passion, humility and much love.

>>126831645
>Speaking about Bach's music seems quite impossible for me

You should have stopped there.

>>126831645
>>126831696
Solemnity, fervor, serenity, passion, humility, and much love.

You disagree?

Handel > Bach

>>126831800
roflol

Which of these recordings of the Gigue from Bach's Partita No. 5 in G Major, BWV 829 sounds best to you, anons?

Perahia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9cf2HaD6js&list=OLAK5uy_ni8Su1qHncZGRz-sfej8LeyU8lsaHYIPY&index=13

Hewitt 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34AWc6UfQvo&list=OLAK5uy_mew7jhNlDEffD-0ESex9d6Cp87Y1XmYfk&index=33

Levit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoVjejzXx24&list=OLAK5uy_k9zkiCHsoGl3LbAIJSvZp5CGUAVfEnqdU&index=33

Hewitt 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_V9tvLbOhU&list=OLAK5uy_mP5wAnRj0lMepXBacnQxKpJopB1PmkxiA&index=33

Zhu Xiao-Mei
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_GROQAKEkM&list=OLAK5uy_myfj_bpgik7XmScP7jCsjRcqi4yCJvh_o&index=20

Schiff 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_FefJnwnw&list=OLAK5uy_lARmgH23fzdMxaWTJDjAwpbGIiAPgdOAA&index=7

Koroliov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FM_8x3DRHQ&list=OLAK5uy_ns0y7TLxy9sL-VvFDIXJz8pnurKEFweL4&index=21

Curious what you all think. Much appreciated in advance

>>126832141
Perahia's sounds the least mannered to me, so that's the one.

>>126832350
It is a nice one.

>>126823267
I'm enjoying Black mana cocks concerto

>>126823267
LOL

>>126823267
Yes.

>>126829345
t. Average Brahms fan

>>126823267
Livin' alone
I think of all the friends I've known
But when I dial the telephone
Nobody's home

>>126832670
We can be best frens forever, anon.

>>126831311
Dvorak Souls 2: Paint Peeling Off Wall Edition

Prelude and Quadruple Fugue whatever that means
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxiYziQ-q9Q&list=PLDRWlWQtH7blUf_A1ZZe59DPl0ugTc6Mq&index=5&ab_channel=SeattleSymphony-Topic

Symphony no. 3 Alan Hovaness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2zuMJf-840&list=RDC2zuMJf-840&start_radio=1&ab_channel=SergioC%C3%A1novas

>>126823267
im trans btw

An American in Paris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQzNjsI18yY&list=RDxQzNjsI18yY&start_radio=1&ab_channel=LeonardBernstein-Topic

I am drinking Tchaikovsky right this moment

Bach I'm trying to listen to music not do math

"I was about to play the [Funeral] March when, suddenly, I saw emerging from the half-open case of my piano those cursed creatures that had appeared to me on a lugubrious night at the Carthusian monastery. I had to leave for a while in order to recover myself, and after that I continued playing without saying a word."

>>126832141
i like vedernikov, he plays like gould whitout autism
https://youtu.be/QAJXiz6cCv4?list=RDQAJXiz6cCv4&t=1054

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BBk-7ZAJl0

Chopin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1iX7KUjMUU

>>126830764
Genuinely torturous

>>126833581
American music is so disgustingly provincial. Even Australian composers aren't as bad as this.

>>126830515
Is it really good? I've only heard bad things about Solti.

>>126830344
>Wagner is the godfather of epic movie soundtracks
>>126830497
>Almost every film and game soundtrack composers credit Wagner

I know Wagner is "important" to soundtracks, but in the actual sound of movie music Mahler seems to dominate. They seem to prefer it in expressing visual emotions and moods. Is this because Mahler was more expert at expressing specific emotions or moods, or because, as the other anon said, he's schmaltz and that fits movies? As an example, just take the orchestration in your average orchestral movie soundtrack, and it's closer to Mahler than to Wagner.

Do you think Rhapsody in Blue resembles Rach’s 2nd piano concerto in places?

>>126836773
well they are both slop so yes I suppose.

>>126836481
>I've only heard bad things about Solti.

From who?

>>126836942
From this general.

>>126836473
Sculthorpe has a very unique sound. he likes to use chromatic chords with lots of semitones and major thirds to create a harsh and alien soundscape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucgYOMS7Kro

>>126837232
I'm sorry but composers using elements of 'aboriginal music' is just ridiculous to me and I can never take Sculthorpe seriously as a result.

>>126837512
I don't think that is a sufficient reason to not take Sculthorpe's music seriously Stravinsky used primitive/tribal textures in the Rite of Spring and that work is regarded as high art.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vw-fy-Gfl8

Gotta give Glenn Gould some credit, if he recorded a piece, his recording appears at the very top of the Amazon results every time. Now that's a successful legacy.

>>126838047
Gould's trademark was to play everything staccato so even a tone-deaf man born without ears could clearly hear all the SUBTLE! details of a piano piece.

>>126838096
Can't blame the man for having a winning strategy.

best Mahler 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 recordings?

just realized for all the Rachmaninoff I've listened to, I've never really listened to these Variations pieces. Well, it's time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcLgbNMnHPE&list=OLAK5uy_n0iqZ3wQcGlBpkO65w1cpKF_tr11TgrB4&index=19

>>126838182
so just the Chailly cycle except for 1, 2, 6 & 8?

>>126838190
And Chailly is pretty good on those ones too! Especially the 6th and 8th.

That said, as much as I love Chailly's two cycles, I think probably the best starter set is Abbado/Berlin. Start with that, fall in love, then branch out from there. But really, do whatever works for you. You have a whole lifetime to listen to Mahler recordings if you like his music.

>>126838182
i'm guessing the Kubelik 2 is the Symphonieorchester Des Bayerischen Rundfunks one right?

best Mahler pieces besides his symphonies? :^)

>>126838212
Where do you see Kubelik Mahler 2? Go with his Audite cycle though, because his DG set has production issues, with the exception of the 1st.

>>126838233
holy shit i'm retarded, nevermind.

>>126838224
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJNaKMgvXRA

:^)

these might be his best symphonies, for me it's a tie between these and the Paris symphonies, i love the Pinnock recordings, what are your favorites?

The Goldberg Variations Vikingur Olafsson
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=utkmiE7PXUI&list=PLbzO-CZAiyNXi4ycxGxTysM8ajI-fX2Sf&index=2&pp=iAQB8AUB

After staring at him long enough he did seem to strike me as resembling Val Kilmer playing Tom Ripley

Bums me out there isn't more orchestral lieder out there. It's just Strauss' Four Songs, Mahler's few song cycles, and Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder? All among the very best of classical music too. Lame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxB6DoEUXs

>>126838318
This is the best piano recording of the 21st century.

>>126838282
I've only really heard the London symphonies.

>>126838354
It's not even the best Goldberg Variations of the 21st century, but I respect your opinion.

>>126838354
I haven’t heard too many but I’d believe that

>>126838318
>After staring at him long enough he did seem to strike me as resembling Val Kilmer playing Tom Ripley
lol

>>126838365
What is then?

>>126832141
>Mary worship
>Hewitt twice
Subtle

>>126838398
I like Dinnerstein's, Rana's, Wurtz's, and Tharaud's more. But that's just me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z800_PX6q3w&list=OLAK5uy_lHdPJoAwZeyCbrUE1BnRLWIq0kaA74SMg&index=26

That said, Olafsson's is a fine choice and I wouldn't buck at someone choosing it.

>>126838177
I'm surprised you haven't listedn to it, the 18th's variation is probably his most famous tune. Also did you know 18th's melody is the inversion of the Paganini melody? As in, it's literally played upside down. It's genius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwYGbYF9r6U
>>126838182
I made a mistake there, 5th should've be Leinsdorf/Boston:
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/123663438/#123681567
Glad that post's still useful though lol

The best Goldbergs:

Karl Richter
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=FLLKIuZvOBo&si=6FVzN4OTmYYMYWyC

Helmut Walcha
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=fMH_OSi8td8&si=SxjHKG5SX_QxdKkT

Ralph Kirkpatrick
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lcNjrUv2hqU&si=KgmJc3KcJFUF6zhA

Gustav Leonhardt
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=EZQBDtxJafU&si=ec3TwZd6sGHNBiVY

Trevor Pinnock
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ24C1KUSv0&si=8DLS5_nR2C2lJUf7

Kenneth Gilbert
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=fXmUWX8dhYs&si=wkP9pZPtsj7wUXZp

Ton Koopman
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=mrkEzsWJlwA&si=qf9zRmB6mCUK75yt

Anthony Newman
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=CIJ2kHAzKH4&si=DWJSdzmfOCEsiPGf

>>126838541
I already told you, if I wanted to feel like I was playing Runescape, I'd just play Runescape.

20 minutes is a good length for a piece of music, doesn't matter what it is. no need to make anything longer than that.

>>126838923
Wagner disagrees.
Mahler disagrees.
Tchaikovsky disagrees.

>>126838173
they're all shit. all mahler is shit. your taste is shit. you wouldn't know a good piece of music from a bout of flatulence.

>>126838945
tired of those names. tchaikovsky's by far the best of them, and think of how little there is to say about him.

>>126838950
i haven't even listened to Mahler yet, i was asking for recordings because i haven't listened to them yet, i'll see for myself.

>>126838984
>i'll see for myself
no you won't. you're too diseased already, you're too suggestible. it's over.

>>126838998
how do you know? i might hate them.

>>126838923
>>126838950
Are you so bored you post inane trolling nonsense in this general of all places?

>>126838984
Hope you enjoy :) Are you gonna listen to a symphony tonight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe8P71n8nLo

Oh yeah, that's the stuff.

>>126839010
they hated him because he told the truth
>this general of all places?
what's so special about it?

>>126839020
>what's so special about it?
That there's like 8 regular posters here with the occasional tourist, we're all good-natured, and it's for a somewhat niche topic (on 4chan), so trolling here is just inconsiderate, pointless, and... sorry, pathetic

>>126839020
>what's so special about it?
we don't allow bl*cks here

What are some of the lowest piano/keyboard pieces?

favorite Show Pan works?

>>126838580
You seem like the type of pervert who is intimately familiar with the sound made by two skeletons copulating on a tin roof.

>>126839034
Idiot from Northern America

>>126839034
This general gets shitposts constantly what are you talking about

>>126839034
no different from the kpop threads desu

>>126839034
>somewhat niche topic (on 4chan)
only on /mu/ funnily enough, Classical music is more popular on most other boards, /mu/ always did have the worst taste in music.

>>126839080
I don't mind people being rude but honest or insincere but funny; it's insincere and rude I can't stand.

>>126839096
shame that your musical standards are not as exacting

i'm listening to classical for the first time right now, i'm listening to a beethoven playlist on youtube, it's just boring old movie music, when do the lyrics and drum beat start?

>>126839120
Ayyy, nice one

>>126838945
I’m sorry Wagner but I’m not listening to a 5 hour Opera, that’s part 1 of 4make some cuts my guy

>>126839131
what about a 15 hour opera?

>>126839122
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VimNTQ6cU7s

>>126839158
wow this was written in the 1500s or whatever? that's pretty ahead of it's time.

>>126839055
Top 3 would be: Ballade no.4, Piano sonata no.3 and Cello sonata. Tempting to not include Barcarolle but eh, top x lists are never accurate anyway.
>>126839122
You're retarded and need to fuck off. Or behave like a human and ask for rec nicely. Listening to random playlist in the background is antithetical to what Classical music actually requires (LOT of attention). And it is objectively the most rewarding genre of music, do what you will with that info.

>>126839230
Says the chopincel

Now that the dust has settled what was Bieber thinking ( in the 2nd mov)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BqR10olVCOo&pp=ygUNYmF0dGFsaWEgYSAxMNIHCQnDCQGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

>>126839247
Says what, the truth?

The emissary of Satan larping as AI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FmIR6tAwq0

>>126839247
nta but please don't be mean to Chopin

>>126839131
People who can't withstand the length of Wagner are without exception midwits. Shakespeare's greatest dramas are just as long, and a great deal else of the greatest achievements of the performing arts. There is nothing quite like a 5-hour enervation of the spirit after the long, wearisome days of ordinary life. For those 5 hours do we find the home long searched for.

>Not in entire forgetfulness,
>And not in utter nakedness,
>trailing clouds of glory do we come
>From God, who is our home

>>126839387
>enervation

>>126839405
Yes, as in Aristotle's catharsis.

>>126839387
based, if you haven't listened to the entire Ring Cycle in one sitting you are not a Wagner fan.

>>126839613
No one but schizos and retards listen to the entire ring cycle in one day. All true Wagner connoisseurs listen to it one per day, or two at max.

favorite Bruckner 5?

>>126839613
Wagner is like crystal meth. 15 hours would vaporize your brain and nervous system.

>>126839655
>>126839666
you have no attention span, you must have ADD or ADHD, it's just 15 hours.

>>126839387
the brilliance of the music doesn't change the fact the structure behind the brilliant music is basically pre-cinema Lord of the Rings gibberish.

just give me the hits

>>126839680
Wagner fried your senses and dopamine receptors. now you can endure 15 hours of anything.

>>126839692
can someone translate this post

>>126839692
most people don't understand the true meaning of Wagner's opera's, they shouldn't be taken at face value, they are very deep.

>>126839680
>it's just your entire fucking day
Nice. You fucking retard. Learn what ADHD means

>>126839713
>Opera's
*Operas
oops

>>126839707
La brillantez de la música no cambia el hecho de que la estructura detrás de ella es básicamente un galimatías precinematográfico de El Señor de los Anillos.

Solo dame los éxitos.

>>126839096
no one here is funny (and it's not for lack of trying either)

Chopmaninoff

>>126839715
>Anon doesn't know how long a day is

>>126839715
>entire day
oh okay, apparently 15 hours = 24 hours

>>126839680
dude, 15 hours, no way

has anyone ever listened to all of Haydn's symphonies in one sitting?

>>126839740
I do it every day

>>126839656
Sinopoli, Karajan, Maazel (BRSO) are my top 3

>>126839758

>>126839758

>>126839758

NeWagner

>>126839732
>>126839734
16 hours is an entire day. You sleep for the remaining 8 hours. Idiots.

>>126839766
oh shit, you're right, i forgot about sleep, i rarely sleep anymore anyway.

>>126839773
Explains your posts desu.