Thread 126839758

Wagner edition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPlaz7e1wio&list=OLAK5uy_mwWbjHpeb73z1Hq0dYiq6uZ7Y0K7w7RTQ&index=1

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh

Previous: >>126814334

favorite Bruckner 8?
mine is Günter Wand

>>126839779
Szell with Cleveland Orch

Best Scriabin interpreter?

>>126839779
van beinum

>>126839791
Sofronitsky, Zhukov, Richter.

>>126839791
my Ouija board.

>>126839772
Left wing meme

>>126839791
Ignore everyone else, the answer is always Lettberg

>>126839791
Lettberg.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/big-boxes-maria-lettbergs-reference-scriabin-cycle/

“True music must repeat the thoughts and inspirations of the people and the time. My people are Americans and my time is today.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ8J-PXCSLU&list=RDkZ8J-PXCSLU&start_radio=1&ab_channel=BenjaminGrosvenor-Topic

>>126839772
im 5 pages in into this left wing meme
I hope it gets good

Scriabin is the MSG of classical

>>126839813
>My people are Americans
Ew

>>126839824
what's wrong with americans? an american made this website.

>>126839823
>MSG
which, message or monosodium glutamate?

>>126839823
*MGS

>>126839828
Cultureless, rootless, artless, shabbos goy: the nation. This website proves it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdg-DT8rTUQ

Why are jews such talented violinists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfwVim0EybY

>>126839846
And yet here you are??

A Wagnerian offers praise for Rhapsody in Blue:

How trite, feeble and conventional the tunes are; how sentimental and vapid the
harmonic treatment, under its disguise of fussy and futile counterpoint! …Recall
the ambitious piece on yesterday’s program and weep over the lifelessness of its
melody and harmony, so derivative, so stale, so inexpressive. And then recall, for
contrast, the rich inventiveness of the rhythms, the saliency and vividness of the
orchestral color.

>>126839894
Any alternatives? Thanks in advance.

>>126839883
Compare the two
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pocz2yoAcsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9GpKyKZSvo
Hahn’s is better.

>>126839948
>woman
no thanks!
>jew
no thanks even more, fine i'll listen to the woman.

>>126839779
>favorite Bruckner 8?
Karajan, Giulini, Maazel

>mine is Günter Wand
but why?

>>126839758 (OP)
My favourite melody in the whole Ring and it's only played twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZAvqg70i4c&t=480s

>>126839840
MGS is Magnesium Sulfide, a chemical found in meteorites and whores

>>126839957
There's no reason not to listen to Jewish or Womanish players other than prejudice

>>126839766
>he sleeps

Watched Das Rheingold, is the entire cycle just gonna be this constant recicative? I dislike the lack of any real melody in the voices

>>126839791
not Lettberg, they're memeing.
try Hammelin and Ohlsson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8gxyytqYk&list=RDaV8gxyytqYk&start_radio=1&ab_channel=AdrianoLedo

>>126839813
>True music must repeat the thoughts and inspirations of the people and the time
dumbest shit ever said

>>126839993
anon those are still melodies
but yes those short melodies changing into one another and avoiding cadences are the Wagner style

>>126839948
>>126839957
>Hahn
>green eyes
>dark curly hair
>plays violin
She is obviously jewish.

>>126840015
i can fix her

>>126840011
My issue is that they just feel like endless lines. while most of the actual melody is in the orchestra.

best Wagner Piano Sonata? :^^)

Richard Wagner once said of Johann Sebastian Bach’s music: “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.”

>>126840015
She doesn’t sound overly Jewish thoughbeit

What is some keyboard music that mainly or only uses lower notes?

>>126840130
my music

>>126840032
interesting how all the great ones say they love Bach

>Barenboim
>Cover art done by a child
>First comment on Youtube is "I listened to this and began crying over how much I love my mom, 10/10"

Let me guess you need 'more'?

>>126840166
An astute observation sister

>>126840189
That's not a Matisse painting? What a scam.

>>126840197
>sister
get away troon

>>126840213
do not provoke him.

>>126839993
You're meant to think of Wagner's vocal writing more as musically expressive dialogue than anything strict like recitative or aria, since it goes between all of them at random. Sometimes you'll get an entire melody in the voice.

>>126840335
It's like a precursor to rap he was the black Kanye West

>>126839779
Barenboim because he picks the exact tempos I would

>>126840021
>endless lines
well that's by design, Wagner himself called his style the "endless melody"
and yeah I didn't like it at first either, but for some reason fell in love with it later.

>>126840482
Chicago, Berlin, or Staatskapelle Berlin?

>>126840490
That anon is complaining that Wagner's vocal writing doesn't have any melodies.

>>126840589
yes that was adressed in the first reply

>>126840130
Why would you even want that? It would sound muddy. Or it would be nothing but bass notes, and maybe a second voice if handled with care

>>126840632
I don't think Wagner thought of his vocal line as 'endless melody'.

>>126840579
can I mix them? Chicago for the first two movements, Staatskapelle for the adagio, and Berlin for the finale

best chamber works composed between 1827 and 1900?

>>126840737
Siegfried Idyll

>>126840719
Very based.

>>126840737
see >>126830852

>>126839791
Sofronitsky, Richter, Szidon, Zhukov, Ashkenazy, Horowitz for the solo piano works. Ignore Lettberg and her emotionally and dynamically flat, uninspired recording; it's only popular because it's a complete set, not because it's any good.
Muti and Ashkenazy for the orchestral music.

>>126839922
www.talkclassical.com

>>126841149
That's a canuck website and I have to make an account. Not an alternative.

honestly the worst thing about the Solti Ring is how often he drowns out some instruments in favor of others. the harps and woodwinds suffer the most from this. I really wish that project had gotten a better conductor.

I love Mahler's 6th but god, this bit always annoys the hell out of me
https://youtu.be/yije5buYk2s?feature=shared&t=1339

Why the fuck is there a monke bass drum here out of nowhere (timestamp), with cheeky melody in major. Completely ruins the mood and sounds so fucking cheesy

>>126841248
Monteux was established to be the conductor, but Decca thought he was too old and would die before finishing the project

>>126841546
well he didn't
hope someone got fired for that blunder

>>126841546
Technically he wasn't established, just heavily considered. Culshaw respected him and his Wagner conducting a lot, but, yeah, figured he would die before hand.

Also, Windgassen wasn't supposed to be the Siegfried either. Ernst Kozub was. But he was too lazy to learn the role and the sessions were very unsuccessful. They brought in Windgassen last second.

>>126841965
Kozub had a perfect vocal timbre. Such a loss.

>>126842018
I think Windgassen acts the role perfectly, so it's alright in the end. It's really Solti's texturing that I have a problem with

>>126841171
You could always just not come here it would save you from being forced to endure a rootless, cultureless people or their websites

holy shit
10/10

>Remarkably, nobody has yet appreciated that my music, produced on German soil, without foreign influences, is a living example of an art able most effectively to oppose Latin and Slav hopes of hegemony and derived through and through from the traditions of German music. This has remained unnoticed, not only because my scores are hard to read, but, even more, because those sitting in judgement are lazy and arrogant. For it can be seen.

>But for once I will say it myself. My teachers were primarily Bach and Mozart, and secondarily Beethoven, Brahms, and Wagner.

>>126841486
It's all about building an exciting, chaotic, thunderous ending to the movement, which it completely accomplishes.

>>126842765
Yet slavic music is more commonly performed than his trite, lmao

>>126842757
Huh, thought Barshai only had the two wonderful, near-top-tier recordings of the 5th and 10th. Added, thanks.

>>126842757
I heard that years ago and wasn't really impressed. Why did you like it so much?

>>126842757
Is Rudolf Barshai one of the swans?

>>126842765
>Brahms,
https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft5t1nb3gn&chunk.id=d0e232&toc.id=&brand=ucpress

Don't click the IP grabber

Why are the sonata-allegro movements of concertos so much longer than those of symphonies? Like even with the cadenza cut of Brahms' piano concerto no. 1, it's still like 18 minutes which is longer than any one movement in any of his symphonies besides maybe the fourth movement of the first which isn't in sonata allegro form, so im very confused at the reason as to why

>>126842765
>produced on German soil, without foreign influences
>Is Jewish

you WILL keep listening to Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin and Cello Suites until you have every note memorized
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcWCkq1oa84&list=OLAK5uy_ljiuBeVj9NZ1aINjK9FOuT6-X9gLKQI3k&index=3

Do click the IP Grabber

>>126842793
But why the embarrassing monke beat. It's awful lol. Wish that bit didn't exist.

>>126842898
I will NOT

>>126842933
What u say abut monke

>>126841486
>>126842933
I guess that recording hits it kinda hard. Compare:
https://youtu.be/SUoQ-gvNcN4?si=rYb1HeSoJwqycPfz&t=1317
https://youtu.be/jkA7SqiaXx0?si=5qAy9EteKueZL-E4&t=1331

but idk sounds fine to me

>>126842946
You shan't? How can you listen to this and not be immediately hooked for the rest,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o4O1uMvI8U&list=OLAK5uy_mcY_ee8bYstMWqB3aWMjnu1fDloXgVnYs&index=1

God. Yes.

>>126842823
mostly the tempo. faster than usual without sacrificing the textual clarity. I feel this added some dramatic weight I always felt missing.

>>126843003
>mostly the tempo. faster than usual
Thanks but I prefer 'em slow, like this.

Brahms wrote three excellent piano quartets; other composers, the one who were able to write any at all, only wrote one, except Dvorak, but he was trying to copy his favorite composer and idol: Brahms! How can anyone compare?

>>126842878
The solos spaces things out more, I suppose. Condense/remove those and you've got the same length as the symphonies, ye?

>>126843084
oh. I guess if you're too busy memorizing every note of the Mass in B minor, the Art of Fugue, or the Goldberg Variations, then, well, it's okay.

let's get Motet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3a19AJKU0&list=OLAK5uy_nO0TXwfedd3OQYU4F-gnlRI9vaodxQwiU&index=1

>>126843095
https://youtu.be/pDMa6qnOJCw?t=23

>>126843132
I like the community Amazon review enthusiastically titled,
>Buy this CD yesterday!!!!
Alright, you've convinced me! Their ardor continues,
>Why has this not been recorded more widely? Well for whatever reason, The Latvian Radio Choir has made a recording of the year, and no matter who next records it, it will be this one recording that all in future must compare. In short the beauty you hear from the singers is so wonderful you will cry. It may be only the singers, but of course they require direction and in Sigvards Klava they have it in spades. And in recording this in the Riga Dome Cathedral,the sound is as close to perfect as on can imagine. Finally the Helsinki label, Ondine has the years winner in sheer perfection. Even if you hate all Bruckner, I guarantee this CD will be visited and heard again and again.It should be in every collection of any type of Classical Music, or any type of music. When you find and hear something this fine, this extraordinary, you should absolutely buy it yesterday!

And hey they're not wrong, gorgeous stuff.

Who is the bruckner of chamber music?

>>126843170
You're not really holding up your end of the clever banter, anon. Whatever. Carry on then.

>>126843181
Schubert maybe.

>>126843186
my replies have been better than yours

>>126843210
>/b/-tier reaction images and video link
Uh huh. No wonder you don't like Bach.

:p

>>126843237
Tell me more about the pieces by Bach you've memorised note for note

now playing

start of Dvorak: Piano Quartet No. 1 in D Major, Op. 23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGm2Y5RdU-k&list=OLAK5uy_mUW2Be3xDTAw7ry8ZUth3Ks2pqDdhtcp0&index=2

start of Dvorak: Piano Quartet No. 2 in E-Flat Major, Op. 87
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziK3ukE4QOE&list=OLAK5uy_mUW2Be3xDTAw7ry8ZUth3Ks2pqDdhtcp0&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mUW2Be3xDTAw7ry8ZUth3Ks2pqDdhtcp0

London Bridge is falling down, falling down... nah, looking up a review, it seems this trio is actually named after Frank Bridge, not, y'know, a bridge in London, lol.

>An intriguing aspect of the ensemble is its name. This is the trio based in London that is named after composer Frank Bridge, and not named after the connective construction linking one side of the Thames to another, a situation made even more confusing (or perhaps this is a photographic sleight that mirrors Dvořák’s playfulness in Op. 23) by the cover photo which shows a London bridge (Waterloo Bridge, in fact); that photo was possibly, even probably, taken from a location near London Bridge. Very good, if it is deliberate. ---- Colin Clarke

Normally this would be a silly thing to include in a review, but immediately when I came across their recording and read the name of the ensemble on the cover, I was wondering exactly that, lol, so I'm glad the reviewer did.

>>126842965
>>126842975
It just sounds corny as fuck no matter how many times I listen to it.

Listen Pavel Haas from Check Ripublick
String Quartet No. 2 Op. 7 From the Monkey Mountains
All monkes recumend
But he die of Hitler
Sad day for monke
https://youtu.be/NhG-ZAyCLSw
Listen here monke
https://youtu.be/NhG-ZAyCLSw?t=1460
Bang Bang
Wild night

>>126843317
It's not literal, anon. It's 4chan banter meant to convey how beautiful those works are, so great they should be listened to over and over until one is intimately familiar, until they have left a permanent imprint on one's memory and heart, that's all.

>>126843340
That's what's so Tragic about it.

>hmm, I feel like listening to X piece
>get up off bed, look it up, press play
>lay back down, start listening
>minute or two passes
>remember about Y recording
>oh I should listen to that one
>get up, look up Y recording, put that one on
>lay back down, start listening
>minute or two passes
>remember about Z recording
>oh WAIT, I should listen to that one
>get up, look up Z recording, put that one on
>lie back down, start listening

sigh, it can get tiresome. at least I'm set now. sometimes the cycle repeats another or two times!

>>126843503
wtf dude

Anon, we're all worried about you. Why aren't you listening to Dussek? What's wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo1XHgO8asU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgbhJrZTroc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QXDNEQW4t8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDCC2FjhFBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLZOJgz4jEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBIrH8XzxRI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03v_yujz2BY

>>126839791
Every reply you've gotten so far has been a joke. It's either Lettberg le funny trolls or hissing Sofronsky fanboys. A short time ago we curated and finally decided on the absolute perfect Scriabin listening experience:

Symphonies, Rêverie, Sonatas & Vers La Flamme: Ashkenazy
Piano Concerto: Postnikova+Rozhdestvensky
Op 54: Lokalenkov+Golovschin
Op 60: Argerich+Abbado
Symphonic Allegro: Moscow Philharmonic+Golovschin
2 Piano Fantaisie: Ponti+Leonardi
Scherzo & Andante for string orchestra: Hamburg Strings+Preyss-Bato
Everything else piano solo: Dmitri Alexeev

Happy listening.

>>126843610
Sweetie you forgot the Lettberg again. It's time to get back to the disciplinary chamber.

>>126839828
>what's wrong with americans? an american made this website
You just provided an excellent answer to your question (with the added irony that it's just a ripoff of a japanese site, just like everything americans credit themselves for is a ripoff)

>>126843181
Few but huge works that redefined the genre? Sounds like Brahms to me (before you challenge the "few" modifier, remember that even though he wrote for a number of combinations, none of them surpased the number of 3; 3 piano trios, 3 string quartets, 3 violin sonatas, etc)

Any pieces of classical music that make you think of spiders?

>>126843726
Every tarantella

>>126843181
Reger

>>126843726
>>126843744
fuckn beat me to it

>>126843559
>11 hours

>>126844022
take your adderall

>>126843401
Kek'd
>>126843726
Pretty much anything by Shostakovich. Try the violin concertos for extra spidery experience.

Wurtz's Mozart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf2DYGpel8g&list=OLAK5uy_k5h62bJQALghvO_52ZJPAhX7tG6Cta6qg&index=43

>>126843367
Pavel's ass

There's not as many complete Schubert piano sonata sets as I thought there'd be. There's a bajillion D. 960s and of the last few piano sonatas together, a ton of the Impromptus, then there's a handful of a couple of the other sonatas at random paired together or with a late sonata, but for the entire cycle done by a single pianist, there are fewer of those than you'd think for a composer of Schubert's stature. Hmm. I guess a couple of the earliest piano sonatas aren't too important, even though I like them. I am, however, tired of hearing recordings of just D. 958, 959, + 960. idk

>>126844735
You ever listen to Leonskaja's and/or Dalberto's sets?

>>126844789
Leonskaja, yeah. Solid, but ended up having less staying power and overall effect for me than I thought they would. Dalberto, no, never heard of, I'll check it out, thanks. Have you tried Jando's? That's another I see around a lot but I've only tried one of.

>>126844839
>Jando
Honestly only thing I've heard him play has been Schumann. Gonna keep it in mind

>>126844864
I think he's got a massive discography lol, and I know a lot of posters here used to like him. But yeah, curious if you had an opinion on his Schubert. I might give more of his a try. Anyway thanks for the Dalberto rec, gonna give the release with D. 946 and D. 958 on it a try later.

>>126843559
Dussek more like dude, sick

Similar symphonies to Tchaikosvky's Pathetique?

>>126845496
Tchaikovsky's 4th

>>126845496
>>126842757
>>126843019

>>126843049
Beethoven and Mendelssohn wrote three; Mozart, Schumann and Fauré wrote two. If we count Haydn's divertimenti as quartets, then there's six right there,

Boito

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WQ-YRD0sdc

thoughts on the pushing of clara/fanny/women etc into the mainstream?

>>126839779
Beinum
Bohm/BPO
Bohm/Cologne
Jochum/Bamberg (the top secret one)
>>126843003
Have you heard Kondrashin's Japan performance?
>>126844735
Why do you need a complete set?

>>126846271
>pushing

>>126839779
Tintner + Ireland National Symphony

>>126846347
Who hurt you as a child?

>>126846284
>Why do you need a complete set?
Dunno about the other guy, but I appreciate a consistency in sound and style of interpretation in sets of iconic works such as symphonies, string quartets, piano sonatas etc

>>126846360
I bet you think Barenboim is good

Which Mahler symphony would go down the best with an impromptu performance on the main stage at Glastonbury?

>>126846434
3rd because it's both the longest and the worst and I want those people to suffer

>>126843559
I'm really enjoying pic related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVZ6vbV46u4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS-UvB4PNBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbNo4ECyq9U

>>126845611
>; Mozart, Schumann and Fauré wrote two
Schumann has one quartet and one quintet! but yes I forgot about the rest.

>>126846284
I don't need a complete set, but I like the convenience and an overarching vision over it if possible. Plus, then I don't get that same ol' "damn, this is a fantastic D.960, let's see the rest of their Schubert... oh it's all they recorded." Of course I still listen to those one or two-offs, I just always prefer looking for complete sets when I can.

>>126846700
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPrWZrxQ9p4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDYoEDuRwt8

>>126846768
First one doesn't have an wikipedia article, doesn't count! Was probably written by Clara, pfft

>>126846781
ok retard

>>126846793
You were right, you were right. Happy?

>>126846808
never

>>126846825
Listen to Brahms' Piano Quartets, you'll attain a state remarkably close

>>126846838
what makes you think I'm not well acquainted with them already

>>126846851
>A man unfamiliar with happiness is a man unfamiliar with Brahms. ---- Me

I was just looping the convo back to my original post

>>126846877
well that is very selfish and unfortunate of you

>>126846886
Well, the critics have said self-reference is a hallmark of my style.

>>126846897
that's an unwarrantedly nice way of saying that you're a one-trick pony, but hey, at least you've got a trick I guess

>>126846914
I'd disagree, but considering I'm already drawing a blank on a clever response here, that doesn't bode well for me.

>>126846955
>I'd disagree
yeah on second thought I don't believe myself that you've got any tricks at all to be honest

>>126846284
>Bohm/BPO
>Bohm/Cologne
Interesting. Those are better than his most famous one with the VPO?

>>126846971
Now we're both unhappy.

>>126846984
Much better. That's not a very good performance IMO.

Wagner

https://youtu.be/VjmovQ2hHhQ?t=13

>>126847354
:O

>"Tchaikovsky was gay because... he just was okay!"
Do (((they))) really expect us to believe this?

>>126839823
He doesn't remind me of Michael Schenker at all desu.

How many hours of classical music do you listen to per day?
I try to keep it under 1 hour.

>>126847751
I walk for about 2 hours a day, so around that much.

>>126847738
Tchaikovsky was infatuated with his student—he called him "Kotik", Russian for little tomcat—and it has been conjectured by some (and asserted unambiguously by others) that they became lovers.

They certainly became physically very affectionate, as demonstrated in Tchaikovsky's 1876 letter to his brother Modest about Kotek: "When he caresses me with his hand, when he lies with his head inclined on my breast, and I run my hand through his hair and secretly kiss it ... passion rages within me with such unimaginable strength ... Yet I am far from the desire for a physical bond. I feel that if this happened, I would cool towards him. It would be unpleasant for me if this marvellous youth debased himself to copulation with an ageing and fat-bellied man."

>>126847738
He clearly wasn't okay

>>126847776
Music is a great way to drown out thought.

>>126847751
>under
why
>>126847861
>not thinking about music when listening to it
baka my head

>>126847971
lol, Mahler was such a faggot. most composers were just ordinary people who happened to have a talent for music.

>>126848020
everyone was that much of a faggot for wagner back then. Grownass "men" gathered to cry in eachother's arms when the old man croaked as old men are wont to do

>>126843019
I would rather kill myself

>>126847971
>his heart stopped beating
I'm sure it did, that's why he died and never got to compose a symphony
>>126848054
do it, faggot

>>126847866
>Why?
The number of outstanding recordings is relatively small. You must pace yourself, anon, or risk running out of good stuff to listen to.

>>126848060
why would I kill myself if I'm not yet being forced to listen to that though
I said I would RATHER kill myself but currently I can pick neither

>>126848078
>running out of good stuff
anon I don't know how to tell you this, but you're allowed to listen to something more than once, it's not even illegal

>>126843019
For me it's Giulini.

>>126848080
okay kill yourself though

>>126848092
It’s never the same the second time around.

>>126847971
What's the sauce for this?

>>126848020
In my years studying geniuses I've come to the conclusion that they really were exceptional human beings beyond the comprehension of ordinary mortals.

>>126843019
>>126848103
*teleports behind you*
psssh...nothing personnel....kid...

>>126848123
incel moment

>>126848136
>In my years studying geniuses
absolutely retarded

>>126848136
>What's the sauce for this?
Alma's memoirs, quoted in La Grange's Mahler biography

>>126848330
cool

>>126848103
I keep forgetting that Giulini M9 exists, I really gotta listen to it someday soon. For how much I love Giulini and Mahler, I'm ashamed of myself.

16 Nordic/Scandinavian Musical Masterpieces The Emissary of Satan Couldn’t Live Without
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNGTSiedEPw

>>126848330
Oh so it's lies

>>126848521
no one cares David

>>126848521
>Finland
>Scandinavian

>>126848184
Is there something unusual about slowly building up knowledge about artists and artworks?

>>126848570
disingenuously retarded

>>126848570
You don't "study geniuses", you just stan incels and fags, fanboi

>>126848537
Hurwitz went through thousands of CDs so that we don't have to. In this house Hurwitz is a hero. end of story.

>>126848695
go to bed David

>>>/lit/24499178
>>>/lit/24499178
>>>/lit/24499178

>>126848746
No one cares about your thread, litfag

>>126848616
>>126848654
The more I learn about the personality and life of Beethoven the more I begin to understand him, and this experience repeated with many other geniuses, I've come to a conclusion. What's with all the rage?

The most superb recording of Bach’s orchestral suites is undoubtedly Goebel & Musica Antiqua Köln:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R90LBM_cKdA

>>126848814
kill yourself

>>126848825
>undoubtedly
I doubt it

You guys are a bunch of meanies.

>>126848850
cry about it

Falling asleep to Hurwitz's music chats :)

>>126848850
go back to red dit.

>>126848850
But they have good taste…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCYSmmERltU

>>126848746
Is Wagner actually a good poet?

>>126848136
>In my years studying geniuses I've come to the conclusion that they really were exceptional human beings beyond the comprehension of ordinary mortals.
You should read Stefan Zweig's Hölderlin, Kleist, and Nietzsche: The Struggle with the Daemon, it'll be right up your alley.

>>126848943
gay
>>126849112
actually no

>>126849112
sometimes yes, sometimes not. but his dramas are all pretty well designed and original.

>>126849170
I didn't say 'dramatist'! and ah okay

In any case, Wagner isn't on that level. What's that TS Eliot quote?
>Dante and Shakespeare divide the world between them. There is no third.
There is no third, and if there is, which, it being the 21st century now I could be convinced, it certainly isn't Wagner; we don't live in a Wagnerian world, people aren't Wagnerian, and we don't view things in a Wagnerian lens

>>126849124
Is it masturbatory nonsense?

>>126849198
As stated, he wasn't actually a good poet. Not that TS Eliot's opinions on the matter are that important, since he divides the world into two poets whose most significant works are first and foremost narration anyway.

>>126849242
It's kinda like a poetic, impressionistic study and somewhat biography of those three men and their art/philosophy. If you love any of those three greats, you'll love it; if you love Zweig and/or great writing, you'll love it; if you love studying 'genius,' you'll love it. If you want dispassionate analysis, you'll hate it.

>>126849259
The original post I was reply to had Shakespeare and Dante on their triumvirate, hence the direct relevance of the quote lol. aka, the quote is for those sympathetic to that OP, the question being whether Wagner belongs. if you wanna disagree with even those other two selections, then that's a whole different topic

>>126849279
If you included Wagner as a tone-poet I would agree. Wagner's command of music as a language was undoubtably on par with the greatest writers who ever lived.

>>126849409
Music is not written words, no

>>126849409
Anon, I... let's just stick to calling Wagner a great even genius composer.

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmHTJv5pjYo

>>126849409
lol desperate

If we consider notes to be bricks and compositions to be buildings then Wagner was actually literally the greatest civil engineer the world has seen.

>>126849524
I prefer tone-engineer

Music uses formulas and laws much like science, ergo Wagner was the greatest physicist of all time

Rachmaninoff was the greatest chemist of all time since he invented the most addictive drugs known to mankind

speaking of Bruckner's 8th, this one is top-tier, I promise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4uO5t9EfSk&list=OLAK5uy_ndRkKR4jb30lAptuK0ZvulGYmzEGc3750&index=1

Do I have to explain how Wagner was very much the most amazing pastry chef to have ever lived, or are you not stupid?

>>126849743
Rachmaninoff invented nicotine?

Bach to Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQZSNlS1184

>>126849837
Yeah, it was called Piano Concerto No.2

>>126850036
Ugh, no wonder I quit smoking 10 years ago

>>126850074
You made the right choice. I've never smoked but I know it's a chemical equivalent of 2nd piano concerto

>>126849758
Based for using Haas
Cringe for being so soft and slow

Just found the most gorgeous picture of all time. A young Sergei Rachmaninoff sits pensively at his desk, his posture thoughtful, his gaze distant. Around him, the life of a reflective soul: flickering candles, scattered books, and a noble dog resting quietly on the carpet. Above, a slightly tilted portrait of Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky watches over the scene like a silent guardian. The atmosphere is steeped in nostalgia - a quiet homage to inspiration, memory and the weight of legacy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCkpIdYlM6I

>>126843610
>It's either Lettberg le funny trolls or hissing Sofronsky fanboys
What about the anons who mention three or more pianists? You conveniently left them out.

>>126850347
Nice ChatGPT, faggot. Can't think or write for yourself? I suppose we can't expect too much from Rachmaninoff fanboys.

>>126850362
I wrote it myself.

>>126850379
Sure you did, ChatGPTard.

>>126849198
Part of being a poet is in the overall conception and vision of the poem or drama. You cannot ultimately separate poetry in itself from the larger creation it constructs and belongs to. Sometimes, although rarely, Wagner has lines of poetry as great as Goethe or Shakespeare, and he also sometimes has some ridiculously eccentric and abstruse lines. Usually he's just an above average poet writing functional verse, although he deserves credit for having a thoroughly original metric language, whether he's reviving alliterative verse in the Ring, or borrowing Goethe's knittelvers for Meistersinger. It's perhaps no exaggeration to say that, like Baudelaire in French, and Whitman in English, Wagner broke the classical molds of German poetry. But his dramas, as the conception of a poet, are undoubtedly up there with the greatest creations of world literature. The Ring is a gigantic mythological portrayal of the modern world that never ceases to be relevant.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNdgkvHi8Tc

Wagner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IW3VsOqnQA

>>126850347
cute!

>>126850322
>Cringe for being so soft and slow
Just what I like >:)

Thanks for giving it a try tho

Organ is so bad for 3+ voice polyphony. It just sounds like mush. Bass is barely audible and middle voices blend into shrieking texture so you can't even tell what's going on.

Buxtehude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2A8UeiGiE

>>126851853
4 voices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wDJrKGDlR8

>>126851853
Probably one of those things you get used to.

>>126850347
Thanks for sharing!

>>126851853
> It just sounds like mush
> voices blend
> so you can't even tell what's going on
But enough about the piano…

>tfw Bach's Art of Fugue is secretly one of the greatest string quartet compositions of all-time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHz4_3kWjYA&list=OLAK5uy_kqXrl0hCxniRPYokuCjefVadfW4OS-JSg&index=12

How did he do it?

>>126852145
Art of Fugue works on every instrument.

Got to hear picrel live yesterday, it was an absolute treat. Neptune, with the offstage chorus, was particularly enchanting. According to Wikipedia
>The innovative nature of Holst's music caused some initial hostility among a minority of critics, but the suite quickly became and has remained popular, influential and widely performed.
> It was Boult's decision not to play all seven movements at this concert. Although Holst would have liked the suite to be played complete, Boult's view was that when the public were being presented with a completely new language of this kind, "half an hour of it was as much as they could take in".[19]
I don't get it, what's so innovative and transgressive about it? Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful music, but it seems to me to be completely in line with all the late 19th/early 20th tone poems

>>126852145
>>126852356
How do SQs plays Art of Fugue when some fugues have more or less than 4 voices? Do they play in unison or rest? Do they play 2 notes on instrument? If you guys have any idea, let me know.

>>126852484
Find out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLpJZWukDiY&list=OLAK5uy_me9d2cIco56aNbBOHhgHjiFrrRSUuVIRU&index=4

>>126852516
I'm listening to the other recording you posted and I can't tell. Spoonfeed me

thoughts on Cortot's Chopin?
https://youtu.be/wB4oj4sS3zA?si=19qsLJuGAhNxU2LN

>>126853113
new pianists suck, i'd prefer better playing even if it had terrible sound quality.

>>126853144
>new pianists suck because... They do okay???

>>126853162
this but unironically

>>126853214
>I'm stupid, unironically
Okay, tell us something else about yourself now

>>126853162
They suck because they have no good sense of rubato, rhythm, are very bad at left/right hand contrast, have no unique ideas on the music since they have to play everything and cannot achieve an individual idea of the music that is worth hearing, and most of all they are too homogenous in overall sound profile thanks to the proliferation of the concert piano sound, which is objectively not suitable for a great deal of pre-20th century music, and also hampers the range of playing capability due to the heavier key action

Just listened to Cortot's awful 3rd ballade and I'm about to puke.
>The hiss, horrible sonics, mic etc.
>tons of wrong notes creating awful dissonances, unstable distasteful rubato
>someone is actually enjoying it
>meanwhile we have godzillions of great recordings to choose from

>>126853289
There are many modern pianists that literally don't fit into this description.

>>126853317
There are, yes, but not really that many that live up to the standards of the golden age pianists. I'd be curious to hear who you think fits that description and why.

>>126853342
Depends for what, for example Zimerman is literally perfect for the ballades, he has perfect voicing, where you can hear everything, soprano doesn't drown, middle voices are perfectly audible and accented when necessary. Perahia is a close second and he has more of that rubato that oldfags are after. But he has some flaws. Those are my favorites by far, but I could name at least 10 great ones that aren't unlistenable wrong-note hiss bs. Few good ones include: Moravec, Harasiewicz (probably not modern, but listenable), Seong-Jin Cho (fresh and very good, dismissed only because he's popular blah blah). For Etudes, honestly I still have to hear anything better than Yuchan Lim's, and he's as modern as it gets. No, historical recordings don't come close.

>>126847971
>H-help someone please I can’t get my winter coat on!!
>I’m trying Wagner but I just can’t move agh!
>Nooooo
Mahler wakes up in a cold sweat once again

now playing

start of Grieg: String Quartet No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SofWLJ7AMgw&list=OLAK5uy_lsAlxO2Jc2EbF5naua86Bihd69v3V65TA&index=2

start of Grieg: String Quartet No. 2 in F Major
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiHAWFyRE8w&list=OLAK5uy_lsAlxO2Jc2EbF5naua86Bihd69v3V65TA&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lsAlxO2Jc2EbF5naua86Bihd69v3V65TA

>>126853749
kek

>>126848078
They’re all basically fine apart from the hiss ones. They don’t record the really bad ones- the high school band blundering their way through Mahler 2 forgetting half the notes and missing an entire movement. If they record it, they’re recording a really really talented musicians who’ve probably been forced by their psychotic Taiwanese parents into practicing the clarinet for 6-8 hours everyday. They all know what they’re doing and are playing exactly what the composer wrote down for them to play more or less

>>126852413
Hmm, one reason I miss the sisterposter is they knew the answer to these good questions. Hopefully someone else here does and can help.

>>126853304
Uh oh, the Cortot fan hiss sister won't be happy.

>>126847751
Too much. I've cut down recently though, so maybe like... 8 hours a day?

I’m not listening to the whole thing, I just thought this was interesting
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAFpF2gvKjw&pp=ygUTd2lsaGVsbSBrZW1wZmYgYXJpYQ%3D%3D

>>126853819
I think they’re back, I thought I spotted them last night

Liszt's Transcendental Etudes aren't as good as I remember, hmm.

>>126853913
Yeah, the Aria/primary theme is wonderful, of course.

>>126851853
Since we’re knocking instruments the cello is just awful should only be used in small amounts or in the background. Bach’s cello suites are horrible. They should play them to Islamic prisoners held in Camp Delta for as enemies of Israel to coerce confessions and/or actionable intelligence out of them

>>126853819
>miss the sisterposter
Idiot from North West America

>>126854052
How many times have I told you to stop building a profile on me!

>>126854000
He plays it without a trill which I haven’t heard before

>>126853749
LOL

>>126853913
Kempff's rendition just sounds so weird when you're used to the usual ornamentation

finally listening to Pollini's Debussy Preludes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Tjjf4OG-0&list=OLAK5uy_ku_zWx6FGIo0iFXop9OL8tqh0B3QmBqdE&index=5

>>126854066
>>126853913
>for almost 40 years this has been one of my favorite goldberg recordings; i was delighted to find it rereleased on cd at last. as written, the variation sections should be played A.A:B.B, but Kempff plays them A.A:B as a concession to the time limits of the vinyl format in which this recording was first issued. this has the effect of giving each section a sense of impetus and climax while retaining the baroque repeated textures and the expansive vista of musical variations.

>in the famous anecdote, the "goldberg" was supposedly composed to relax a wealthy patron before sleep. while that's likely mere legend, it does point to a style of interpretation -- refined, serene, subtle -- in which the legend can be taken seriously. it seems to me far less "historically objectionable" to apply the sostenuto or una corda pedals, as Kempff does, than to play the variations with the absurd speed, slapdash voicing and percussive, aggressive staccato that has become the modern "virtuoso" approach to this work. Kempff's touch is fluent, balanced and varied; his tempi in particular are beautifully judged (compare the opening aria to the manner in which it is usually performed today, dragging the tempo in the style of Glenn Gould's second recording). the voices are distinctive and clearly woven, and the tone of the piano is suitably clear, almost bell like. my one cavil is that DGG did not reproduce the original vinyl album cover of the patterns on a chladni plate.

>i was playing the vinyl version of this recording on a summer afternoon long ago, when a friend came over. she stopped in the middle of the room, listened transfixed, and said, "what IS that? it's BEAUTIFUL!" yes, it really is.

It's one of the best Goldberg Variations imo

>>126847971
i was the same when i met Wagner

>>126853656
>Zimerman is literally perfect for the ballades, he has perfect voicing, where you can hear everything, soprano doesn't drown, middle voices are perfectly audible and accented when necessary
His voicing is good, but I find that his sense of rhythm and tempo is too lax for me, especially in the 3rd Ballade where I prefer a more dynamic approach. Also, like many post-WW2 pianists he isn't that great at separating his hands, which is key for me in pre-20th century piano rubato.
>Perahia is a close second and he has more of that rubato that oldfags are after
They're more like gestures than a truly felt sense of organic tempo rubato. Flexibility in the moment, but not as an overall approach, meaning his tempo fluctuations are too obvious and showy.
>For Etudes, honestly I still have to hear anything better than Yuchan Lim's, and he's as modern as it gets. No, historical recordings don't come close.
Lim would disagree with you, considering his primary influences are historical recordings. It's a good Etude set, but still a bit too early for him. The few Etudes that really standout are aping his biggest influences, but in some others he shows that he doesn't really have a vision yet. His 25/6, for example, is shockingly boring and blurred. As with most modern pianists, he's too eager to record the great works too soon in his career. I imagine when he records these again in another 10 years, they'll be much better.
>>126853817
Being note correct and played by talented musicians doesn't make a performance worthy of being recorded, much less listened to outside of an incidental occasion. Yes, most recordings are "fine" in that they're note correct and played decently, but that's a base line for mediocrity. There's more than the just the notes, especially as you get into earlier and earlier music.

>>126839758 (OP)
bolero sucks

I think as far as ZImerman's Chopin goes, my favorite is still his early Waltzes, which may even be my benchmark as far as complete sets go, even if I have individual preferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s3a90mAyJ8

I'm not really sure why he hasn't given the OK on reissuing this digitally. I heard a rumor from a DG insider a few years back that apparently he hates these performances. I cannot for the life of me understand why.

These days I just listen to Bach and Mozart. Anyone else know this feel?

>>126854380
Currently I'm in a listen-to-the-ring-cycle-24/7 rut, up to my 54th listen of Das Rheingold.

>>126854407
Once you get to the point where you're listening to obscure broadcast recordings, there's no going back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_WJ90uJTY8

How many of you pretentious poofters knocking everything actually play the piano yourselves?

>>126853819
Why do you think he's Chinese tho? And his spam was awful.
>>126854193
>They're more like gestures than a truly felt sense of organic tempo rubato
I'm not sure how'd you say that when you posted Cortot, his rubato was all over the place. I'm surprised you don't like Perahia.
>His 25/6,
For reference, what would be the best 25/6?

And also, I know you'll likely disagree, but recording quality matters about as much as the interpretation. Because half of that interpretation (especially voicing and dynamics) gets lost in older recordings, and is clearly audible in modern recordings with good sonics. Even if interpretation is mid, you can hear everything clearly and your ears are satisfied.

>>126854407
That's legitmately the behaviour of a psychopath anon

any recommendations for monophonic music (I think this is the term for music with just one instrument or voice)

so far I’ve enjoyed Hildegard von Bingen and some lute music playlists I found on youtube

>>126854732
Gregorian chant. But it gets boring pretty quickly.

So who was the most important figure in transitioning the concerto from the ritornello form to the semi-sonata form it is now?

>>126854804
If by quickly you mean in 5 seconds I agree.

>>126854976
Dr Johann Sonata inventor of the Sonata form

>>126854649
>when you posted Cortot
I didn't. Even if I did it wouldn't really be an applicable comparison; they have different approaches to tempo rubato. Cortot can be quite persistent in his rubato, i.e. changes bar to bar. In that context, a sudden retard or acceleration during a climax doesn't stick out to me as much. Cortot's recordings are all over the place, he has some recordings where he's technically flawless and others where he's a mess. It's understandable. During the time of early electrical recordings, you maybe got two or three takes, max. It was too expensive to do retakes, so a lot of performances are essentially live. The idea of doing a studio performance that's almost entirely takes/retakes spliced together, like Zimerman's Liszt Sonata, was an alien concept to them. And, to be fair to Cortot, he was a teacher first and a concert pianist second.
>but recording quality matters about as much as the interpretation
I do disagree, but only with the "as much" statement. Sure, ideally I would like to have a great sounding recording, but I can usually hear more than enough to get something out of an aged interpretation, thanks to the piano being an instrument that's relatively limited in terms of frequency response. Remember, the piano's most audible frequency range is 27 Hz to 4200 Hz, with less audible (but still present) frequencies extending up to 8500 Hz. Depending on the piano, of course. Early electrical recordings could go up 5500 Hz. Depending on the recording, of course. That means that the vast majority of the piano's FR is captured, which leaves us with dynamics and balance, which, admittedly, can be highly variable, but is nonetheless usually acceptable enough to me to appreciate the interpretation.

For example, in my image I have Fischer and Koroliov. Two different approaches, but sufficient to show how in terms of dynamics they're both captured sufficiently. It's not as if the early recording is squashed dynamically in this case.

>>126853113
Old recordings sound better. They just do.

Brahms is boring

>>126855487
Wrong. Listen to 4th symphony, piano quintet and 2nd piano concerto. Brahms is literally peak of music.

>>126855487
you're boring

Stockhausen edition next or I'm not posting.

>captcha: STDSV

NEW THREAD

>>126855849
>>126855849
>>126855849

I just boughted a Roland fp30x digital piano.