Stocky edition

https://youtu.be/qHVgAQR72qM?list=RDqHVgAQR72qM

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh (embed) (embed)

Previously, on /classical/: >>126884684

First for Wagner

>>126901536
good morning wagnersister

Third for National Socialism, Wagner, Bruckner and Beethoven.

>>126901559
The last thread was ruined by antisemetism

>>126901559
good morning wignatsister

>>126901687
Wagner would not have allowed his discord kittens to grow so unruly.

7th for philosemitism, Alkan, Mendelssohn and Mahler.

>>126901687
No. It's completely normal and healthy to have "off topic" discussion as long as it comes from a music discussion. It is stupid and unnatural to keep the entire thread "on topic". Last thread was ruined by an uppity spammer and we all know that.

>>126901721
*meant to say Glass, Gershwin and Reich

>>126901740
so true wignatsister

>>126901204
Can you imagine coming across as autistic on 4chan?

So it has come to this. Truly it is dismal that /classical/ clings even today to nonentities. Haydn and Mozart? Pop for noblemen. Beethoven? Kitsch for Jacobins. Schubert? The wojak composer who today would court his audience on /r9k/. Wagner? He is the MCU of the 19th century. Brahms? You may as well put on a Disney OST and host a hootenanny at your trailer park for all it will edify you. With his satirical La Valse, Ravel humiliated the whole soi-disant "classical tradition" formed since the upstarts of the eighteenth century took the luminous glory of the baroque and made it into a festival of FARTS (see the second movement of Haydn 93 if you dare defile your ear... your good taste may not recover).

Simplicity, vulgarity, poopy parpy bassoon sounds, dippy whistling fagflutes, and swoony superficial strings so dizzied the lethargic libidos of both the degenerated aristocrats and the rising tide of dull-minded common stock that a century was not sufficient to exhaust their ignorant hunger for this tripe. And yet, even today, when no barrier prevents the worthy pilgrim from seeing what dwarves are those composers, compared to their baroque predecessors and to the modernists who finally put a plug in those tooty little poots, still /classical/ concedes to the nonentities.

The unique characteristic of this writer's soul that he never recognized the validity of the music designated as Classical and Romantic even as a child. Puzzlement and concern were his response to the claims of journalists that this was the acme of art music. Yet when I held in my ear the rich and lofty counterpoint of Bach or soaked in the profound and advanced sonorities of Ravel, Debussy, and Scriabin, my heart was set to rest at the cost of a mind put to flame by the injustice of the situation. Were it not for this injustice, I would take no notice of those composers who are beneath the dignity of consideration for any truly musical person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDk2RUaoEJQ

Hississippi Suite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6-UnfjhK0&list=RDLJ6-UnfjhK0&start_radio=1

>In Paris in 1858, Wagner listened to Berlioz reading the libretto of Les Troyens with a mounting anxiety, so that "I really found myself wishing that I might never see him again since, in the end, to be so utterly unable to help a friend can only become unbearably painful. The text is clearly the pinnacle of his misfortune, which nothing now can surpass."

>Six years earlier, in a letter to Liszt (Wagner considered Berlioz, Liszt and himself the three most important composers of the day), he had written: "If ever a musician needed a poet, it is Berlioz, and it is his misfortune that he always adapts his poet to his own musical whim, arranging now Shakespeare, now Goethe, to suit his own purpose. He needs a poet to fill him through and through, a poet who is driven by ecstasy to violate him, and who is to him what man is to woman." But the poet Wagner had in mind for this job of violating Berlioz was Wagner himself. He thought that Berlioz ought to set the story of Wieland the Smith, a German legend of which he, Wagner, had written the prose outline.

Schumann is a highly gifted musician, but an impossible man. When I came to see Schumann I related to him my Parisian experiences, spoke of the state of music in France, then of that in Germany, spoke of literature and politics,—but he remained as good as dumb for nearly an hour. Now, one cannot go on talking quite alone. An impossible man!"

>>126901901
>Wagner and Schumann saw a lot of each other in Dresden in 1845-46, when Schumann was, in Wagner’s words, “busying himself with the drafts of opera libretti, which finally led to his Genoveva”. Hanslick, who had dealings with them both in the 1840s and was quite supportive of Wagner at that time, wrote an amusing memoir on how they regarded each other. He once asked Schumann whether he had much to do with Wagner, to which Schumann replied: “For me, Wagner is impossible; there’s no doubt that he’s an intelligent person, but he never stops talking. You can’t talk all the time.” On the following day Hanslick met Wagner and asked what he thought of Schumann. “On a superficial level we’re on excellent terms” said Wagner, “but you can’t converse with Schumann: he’s an impossible person, he never says anything.”

15th for La Monte Young

>>126901929
Bitch above ruined my post :(

MM A night on bald mountain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by4khgR7Q5k&list=RDLJ6-UnfjhK0&index=2

What else did Mussorgsky write that was good apart from A night on Bald Mountain and Pictures at an Exhibition?

>>126902044
Uh, not much. Even by Russian standards he's kind of the noble savage of classical music.

>>126902044
Boris Godunov. The original first version is quite good and was a major inspiration for Debussy.

best Matthew Passion recording? no children's choir please.

>>126902085
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqfPsSZS4jM&list=OLAK5uy_k0tcyE6fuUWkc0xZMcMBzT_1rHVzDUHaA&index=2
I like Lutz

Wagner was possibly the worst human being who ever lived.

>>126902293
Bait should be believable
Dogma should be defensible
Ritual should be repeatable
Liturgy should be legible
Belief should be beautiful
What fulfils these conditions in the decadent modern world in which "God is Dead"? Answer: the holy poetry of Richard Wagner and his "Sacred Festival Stage Play" which transforms and supersedes religion.
https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg?list=PL_Cf5Xxn5OZY1gE9zsWHAjXz6MVz9IZYS

>>126902320
I don't like Opera so I doubt I'll ever listen to Wagner fully. It's kind of a shame but what are you going to do?

>>126902399
Not an opera nut myself but this is a blind spot worth getting over.

>>126902399
Such a retarded excuse. It's not some great feat of strength to sit through an opera you fucking child.

Wagner should have written symphonic poems instead of opera. Opera is actually Wagner's weakest genre

>>126902645
It is when it's as boring as Parsifal

>>126901478 (OP)
>(embed) (embed)

this is such an insanely well played and well recorded performance of Mahler's 2nd symphony that i almost don't care of all the liberties that Stokowski takes with the orchestration and tempi

almost

dude was like 100 years old at this point i have no idea how he got the seedy London Symphony to sound so good

>>126902828
Stokowski was just an orchestral magician. It was a commonly observed facet of his style that he was able to get practically any orchestration to play well from him. I still think of that Bernard Hermann quote about his rehearsals:

>I remember the first time he conducted the New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra. At the first rehearsal he said 'Good morning , we will play Brahms, gentlemen.' They started to play the First Symphony, and I would say the first movement was rather mediocre playing on the part of the New York Philharmonic, the second was much better, and by the third movement, it was really the New York Philharmonic at its very best. But in the fourth movement right from the beginning it stopped being the New York Philharmonic and became the Philadelphia Orchestra. And he never said one word to them.

>>126902870
Sounds fake

>>126902645
I disagree, I think not liking opera is a perfectly valid reason to not listen to opera.

>>126902886
It's was directly written by Bernard in:
>“Stokowski: essays in the analysis of his art” (Ed. Edward Johnson, Triad Press, London 1973)
It's probably exaggerated like many anecdotes about old, legendary conductors, but the fact of the matter is is that he was able to get excellent results from nearly everyone. I have broadcast recordings of him playing with third rate ensembles and making them sound first rate.

>>126902085
I don't know about best, but I listened to Dijkstra's the other day and it was marvelous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf6awaf0RIo&list=OLAK5uy_kh9nOZKhr9pstyccGa8-VwCaDOPvaUz58&index=39

>>126902828
will peep, thanks

>>126902085
Rudolf Lutz

I asked my kitty who's her favorite pianist and she said "Arrauw!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-rsfmwKFDw&list=OLAK5uy_mgcxeWRckHc6JIZBB5G7J-8AmQClZuUDo&index=77

Any Sibeliiusfags here? What's the best recording of the 7th?

>>126904216
Berglund

>>126904216
I like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_pfItF0y0&list=OLAK5uy_mIMG8tFoqClEnNd1Zpn7i2AnziiwOaz24&index=32
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5et2iVXXg&list=OLAK5uy_lIyeQi32WxtqljX2CvYTTrFnT9Wd6yUM4&index=12

Plenty of good ones out there though, including >>126904230

>>126902664
Only the first act is boring, but when the Grail Scene gets going, oh boy, you're in for an exciting opera!

>>126904348
An entire act is boring? Dropped

>>126901478 (OP)
https://vocaroo.com/12n9BLo7CDsi

dead thread
dead genre

>>126904681
5, 6 are my favorite, sounds mysterious.

>>126905894
Kill yourself.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNEwlM0aHCI

>>126905894
but enough about metal.

>>126902085
Why are you listening to St Mathew Passion when it isn’t Easter?
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lCplrNYqReA

>>126907513
>Easter
No one cares about some fairytale holiday.

>>126907513
>Why are you listening to St Mathew Passion when it isn’t Easter?
isn't that what
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjRsNsTJPAQ
is for?

>>126907572
Why are you listening to Christian music?

>>126907624
>Christian music
No such thing, music is just music. Why are you listening to music composer by an atheist?

>>126907624
>Christian music
No such thing, music is just music. Why are you listening to music composed by an atheist?

>>126907635
I take it you don’t understand German! KOEK!

>>126907653
I do!

Zehetmair's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM80Mt9eAX4&list=OLAK5uy_mZcD3Z_wpY80TqyaRndOXBhCL7IJiBQ-Y&index=1

If Chopin was so good, why didn't he compose any symphonies?

>>126907722
Because he was good

>>126907624
Because it sounds good.

>>126907600
The passion of Jesus Christ is obviously intended for Holy Week

>>126907674
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdd8hOSVUbg

>>126901901
>Now, one cannot go on talking quite alone

But Wagner loved a good monologue.

>>126902044
Boris Godunov is the best thing he ever did. In fact, it's the greatest music the Russians ever did

>>126907733
>Hes good because he didn't compose in the greatest form that would show his genuine artistic capability

>>126907572
>>126907750
gb2reddit

now playing

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in D major, op.53 D.850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkhmDBXAYHE&list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8&index=2

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in G major, op.78 D.894, "Fantaisie"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lB4p1KGYCw&list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8&index=6

start of Schubert: Vier Impromptus, op.90 D.899
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmH8UveXfVo&list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8&index=10

start of Schubert: Piano Sonata in C major, D.840, "Reliquie"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aMB6jZ-ayg&list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8&index=14

start of Schubert: Drei Klavierstücke, D.946
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLVMGKO1CY&list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8&index=15

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_krj4qAOC2D3qSX2wBZwTPvfW8sHQ5odg8

>Mr. Lewis, the superb English pianist who has spent much of the last decade performing and recording Beethoven, is now focusing on Schubert. In this set he offers richly nuanced, soulful renditions of the Sonatas in C (D. 840), D (D. 850) and G (D. 894), the Impromptus (D. 899) and the Klavierstücke (D. 946), all fine examples of his compelling artistry. --The New York Times

>Every now and again a recording comes along that makes you want to dance in the street, handing out copies to complete strangers. This is one of those instance... Time and again, you marvel at the confidence and sureness of Lewis's playing, combined with the finesse and musicality that he has always displayed. It's the kind of playing, in fact, where comparisons cease to matter. --Gramophone, Recording of the Month

>Firmly in the company of great contemporary pianists... His magisterial account of the C major Sonata (D840) challenges all other recorded interpretations... --The Sunday Telegraph

Love that Gramophone excerpt. And Paul Lewis' piano playing, of course. Check it out!

Ya know what would be a fun idea? Creating a playlist where it's anywhere from 7-15 different performances/recordings of the same piece. It'd be a great way to learn the piece intimately and appreciate all of its nuances, and to do the same for the interpretations. Nothing like immediate comparison to highlight the differences, subtle and obvious alike. Something like one of Chopin's Nocturnes or a movement from a Beethoven symphony or the first movement from Beethoven's 9th Violin Sonata or the first movement of one of Brahms' cello sonatas or a Bach Prelude/Fugue, and so on.

It's interesting that most of Barenboim's recent recordings with the Staatskapelle Berlin orchestra have him indulging in his Teutonic and dramatic instincts the furthest we've ever seen, something easily noticed with composers and pieces he's recorded before (ex. symphonies of Schumann, Brahms, Elgar), yet his Bruckner is the complete opposite. His latest and third cycle sees him at his most agile and lean. His first movement of the 4th, as one example, is a taut 17:38! I wonder if he felt he had no where left to go in that style for Bruckner after his previous traversals with the Chicago Symphony and Berlin Philharmonic, so opted going for a different direction to justify the new set, or if there's just something unique to his interpretive feelings about Bruckner which lead to his decisions. Whatever the why, it's fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAPkvpEOvQQ&list=OLAK5uy_mVUKQsfUnNJrVduVZh2wacLPwqmI5bf4Y&index=13

>>126907931
Can you identify a performer by ear?

>>126908114
Some, sure. Not with 100% certainty but a high confidence inference, sure. I'm sure most here could if they really tried, especially with music they're deeply familiar with. Knowing the piece very well -> you can identify all of the interpretive points -> determine what interpretive decisions are being made -> match the interpretive style to the performer

Of course you'd have to be familiar with the styles and approaches of the performer(s) as well.

>>126908114
>>126908148
And at the very least, I'm sure I could score very high on determining which performers the recording is NOT by. ex. on first listen this could be Pires or Hough, but it certainly isn't Barenboim or Lisiecki or Arrau.

>>126908169
That makes sense. Some performances are almost indistinguishable. I was once listening to some Bach organ music, and I thought it was Walcha playing, but it was Marie-Claire Alain.

>>126908114
Anyone familiar with classical music could identify Gould playing the Goldberg Variations.

>>126908114
A good performer? Yeah. It's pretty easy to tell apart Fritz Reiner's style of conducting from Szell's, Szell's from Jochum and Jochum from Karl Bohm

>>126907778
He did compose in sonata form with dominant harmony pre-coda (a.k.a. ballades) though? Who else composed? Exactly. Chopin is literally the GOAT bar none.

>>126907786
Thank you peasant

Scheibe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTmvC0GGyjs

3rd greatest coda ever composed (you guessed it, all 3 are Chopin):

https://files.catbox.moe/a0mymd.mp4

R8 and H8

>>126908317
I kneel

Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd03e7MKzX8

any recs for microtonal / spectralism that sounds dreamlike, mysterious and magical like LMY

How do people enjoy Debussy, I don't get it. Clair de Lune is nice, but nothing else does it for me. It's so hellishly boring

Tchaikovsky's Fourth is a genuinely great symphony. Why do I rarely hear it praised among other greats? Tchaikovsky is so often known for lighter styles of music that I forget that he is a genuinely capable symphonist. My only real grip with it is the "fate" theme pausing the symphony every time it's restated and never gets developed. Just feels like a forced idee fixe.

It's also an example of the (relatively) rare format of the first movement taking up the first half of the entire symphony, with later movements being shorter and more concise. It's a good way to pace it and I wish it was more common. Allows for large scale sonata form development ala Mahler or Bruckner while keeping the other movements nice and concise.

>>126909248
>never gets developed

Tchaikovsky in a nutshell.

>>126909403
That's simply untrue.

>>126908040
yeah I love his Bruckner but don't care about him outside of that lol

>>126901803
I never knew La Valse was satirical.

I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that there are no good recordings of the Ring. We'll have to wait for AI to let us recreate old voices.

>>126909429
Point me towards some of Tchaikovsky's development sections please!!

>>126909248
Because it's kind of washy and bad.

>>126909980
Literally any of his symphonies, concerto, chamber music. Anything in sonata form has development section.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEZterVLkXc

>>126907206
Name a classical masterpiece written in the last 75 years

>>126904681
>>126905894
>3hour gap
What killed it?

>>126910616
Berio's Sinfonia

>>126907931
I want to mislabel random works by Schumann as being by Schubert and vise versa. Not famous ones obviously

>>126909468
Gotta give him props for having such a distinctive, consistent style and vision though.

>>126909248
>Why do I rarely hear it praised among other greats?
wat

It's always Tchaikovsky 4, 5, and 6, invariably as a trio of great Tchaikovsky symphonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sb8WCPjPDs

Tchaikovsky was the connoisseur of melodies. I expect that he imagined castles, paintings and nature during his compositions. Listening to a Tchaikovsky piece makes you transition into a different gender. https://youtu.be/2Sb8WCPjPDs?t=122 This gay emotional surge that is brought by such a sublime piece of art. How can our generation even compare to such excellency? Just look at the state of current art, be it paintings or music, it is all degenerate and godless.

It is better to just kill yourself than remain in such a stagnant and sterile world.

>>126902081
>>126907775
Unfortunately I don't really like Opera

St Francis of Assissi was a sister poster:
>Francis told his companions to "wait for me while I go to preach to my sisters the birds."

>>126911141
Just train yourself out of it.

now playing

start of Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1 in B-Flat Minor, Op. 23
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h_0cr7CiCU&list=OLAK5uy_n6BNfRAwWwBoMBLwQeUcD93tE2zDO0g_o&index=1

start of Mendelssohn: Piano Concerto No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z8_GPLP0L8&list=OLAK5uy_n6BNfRAwWwBoMBLwQeUcD93tE2zDO0g_o&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n6BNfRAwWwBoMBLwQeUcD93tE2zDO0g_o

>Barely out of his teens on this recording, Lang Lang demonstrates plenty of virtuoso finger dexterity, but also places his personal stamp on the music. In the Tchaikovsky, a barn-burner of a piece that some pianists use to show how fast and loud they can play, Lang stresses the layers of intimacy alongside its more extroverted passages, which he plays with plenty of pianistic pyrotechnics. If his first movement seems disjointed, more a fantasia than a cohesive entity, he makes a virtue out of necessity through sharp accents that highlight its episodic character. Barenboim and the Chicago Symphony's brilliantly played accompaniments are in synch with Lang's approach. The Mendelssohn is a work that replaces bombast with elegant sparkle well suited to Lang's strengths. Lang is in his element here, sprinkling notes without breaking a sweat. There's stiff competition from classic performances by Argerich and Cliburn among many others in the Tchaikovsky, and Serkin, Schiff, and Thibaudet in the Mendelssohn, but Lang is well worth hearing. --Dan Davis

Random note, but looking at Lang's hair on the album cover here triggers me because every time I get a free haircuit from my super asian half-aunt, she always tries to cut it on that horrific style because it's all she's used to and it pisses me off. I don't want it that short! I don't want that shape! Sorry. Anyway...

This is an excellent Franck recording.

>>126911286
>Lang Lang
>Barenboim
>Tchaik
hellish

>>126911305
Yeah, Chamayou is pretty good. Didn't know about that one, thanks, added. Check out the rest of his recordings.

>>126911318
It was the highest result on Amazon that I hadn't heard before. Perhaps I should have gone with the Trifonov/Gergiev instead. Oh well. Next time.

>>126911319
Yes, I first heard his Liszt, which is good, but a spotty composer.

>>126911332
Gergiev vs. Barenboim is the choice of torment the devil gives you in hell

>>126911374
lol

First off, Gergiev owns for Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and Scriabin symphonies. And secondly, I'm ten minutes into the recording now and it sounds solid to me. Afraid of some hyper-indulgent, passionate playing, anon? Embrace your inner sensuality. Everything is kinda broad and spaced out, as you'd expect from a combo of Lang and Barenboim, but it's fun and different.

>>126911420
Gergiev is significantly worse than Barenboim, who is usually just a poor man's Furtwängler. He's not sensual or indulgent; he's clumsy, bloodless, and flatfooted.

>>126911490
Fair criticisms. Hey, I'm not looking for my new favorite recording every time, sometimes I just wanna hear a familiar, beloved piece performed in a different way and then enjoy that recording in itself, even if I never revisit it again.

Why did Chopin not publish his best Waltzes? I find that ridiculous. Like
>Hey, this is my best work in this style. It's too good. Burn it.

>>126911556
Sisterposter was right when he said that you care too much about things being different for their own sake. Simple bad musicianship from the likes of Barbirolli and Gergiev isn't passion or sensuality. A conductor like Munch who isn't awkward and sloppy is a hundred times more sensual than Gergiev.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n91Vhdrrkss&list=RDn91Vhdrrkss&start_radio=1&ab_channel=FranciscoLizama

>>126911646
Whenever I read reviews from critics or community members on other sites, they all seem to be fine with the idea of multiple favorites, with another tier below that of recordings still worth revisiting. Only here do people seem to think you have to be lifetime monogamous with a recording if you truly love music. Then there's the sisterposter who thinks there's only one good recording that comes out every decade, if that.

Look, listening to his Lang/Barenboim recording, sure I could point out all the flaws, point out all the aspects and moments where it's inferior to recordings I've loved for years and much more. But again, just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. Hell, I probably won't listen to this recording ever again. I can still enjoy it for what it is while listening though, like I would when attending any live performance, each one a unique experience.

>>126909874
There are plenty of good ones. Just no perfect ones. That's because it's impossible to play perfectly throughout an entire 13-14 hr piece.

>>126911719
I do have multiple favourite recordings of single works, but they are all good recordings. There's no value in wasting time on crap. Life is short and art is long.

best Scriabin interpreter? no women or americans please.

>>126911767
Lettberg.

>>126911767
>no women or americans please.
Well you're writing off the best ones then

>>126911773
i already have hers, that's why i said no women.

>>126911746
The problem in your analysis of me is you're missing the fact a) I generally spend a solid amount of time deciding which recording to listen to in the first place; I'm not picking these things at random off of YouTube search, meaning I'm picking recordings where already I'm at a better chance of enjoying it than normal, and b) just because I'm posting a recording under 'now playing' doesn't mean I ended up enjoying it or even listening to it all the way through; I post these recordings as soon as I decide which one to listen to; many times it doesn't work out.

>>126911787
there is literally no reason to waste precious time on a Gergiev recording no matter how much deliberation over Amazon reviews preceded the listening

>>126911826
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwwdmm0rnuA&list=OLAK5uy_l8ZB6ju_V-dVDbs_08ch9EkBtTEak358k&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AafzRDmuPs&list=OLAK5uy_nXOruHYfQmbOXU0IEOI8UIr4vPQxnfHeA&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G3BYTpZy6k&list=OLAK5uy_m-dNXt4Xd6qv6ZHcFuaWtNIkeDu7sXZ_o&index=9

All of these cycles are good. Best of the best? Nah, but among the better ones to come out in recent times and worth revisiting? Absolutely.

>>126904058
Mine said "Meeeoooww Glen Gould" then hurled up a hair ball

Cats don't say Arrau either my guy, that's Beagles

>>126911907
You're just not pronouncing it right. Meow -> Reuw -> Arrauw!

>>126911860
I don't even fucking like Tchaikovsky and that proved godawful within minutes. Slack, plodding, mushy waste of time, no tension or momentum. No reason to listen to or revisit this hack when e.g. Markevitch exists.

wtf I had no idea Philip Glass could compose good music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN8fqQDxolQ&list=OLAK5uy_mcqO2x_EzriNNafhALeuMS7y40ay9tp-8

>>126911953
yeah yeah yeah, no one's made a great recording of anything in 60 years, we get it

>>126911967
Literally posted a recording I like from 2010 in this thread >>126911305 and there are plenty of great artists out there e.g. anything from the Pavel Haas quartet. Gergiev is just terrible.

>>126911967
>no one's made a great recording of anything in 60 years
They have. Just not Gergiev. Do you know how much of a hack he is? He's one of those conductors that comes in last second and takes credit after the orchestra is already fully prepared without him.

There's so very few things better in this life
https://youtu.be/H0x_dCrKd4w?si=WueLtMITyhP27saF

>>126912050
>>126912068
Well, you guys do you. I think Gergiev does those three cycles well.

>>126911746
>Life is short and art is long.
This is so pathetic. People say this and then waste their life on 4chan

>>126912221
Non sequitur. 4chan does not impede my ability to access art.

>>126901478 (OP)
>Stockhausen
Not music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bHnGorNTT0&list=RD4bHnGorNTT0&start_radio=1&ab_channel=GhostCapital

https://youtu.be/sAy-5j3pcfM?list=RDsAy-5j3pcfM&t=789
Luv it

The attribution of the Toccata and Fugue in D minor to Bach has been challenged since the 1970s by a number of scholars. There are atypical features throughout the piece and even frankly broken chords. For some time there were theories that it was the product of a young and adventurous Bach, or that it was in fact a piece meant as an organ test.. There's the name -- Bach's generation would have called it "Praeludium et fuga," not Toccata and Fugue -- and a progression of notes Bach never would have allowed.

"Bach's greatest inspiration is invariably revealed through his complete mastery of the 'rules,' "
The evidence of rule-breaking includes doubling at the octave and the curious minor cadence that ends the Toccata, both not heard elsewhere in Bach's organ output (usually even a work in a minor key concludes with a major chord). The Toccata also brims with harmony and counterpoint bordering on simplistic for the masterful composer.

"No other Bach fugue contains such feeble part-writing," writes Fox-LeFriche, citing the "complete absence of contrasting rhythm, contrary motion or a least a few notes that don't slavishly follow the subject."[twat]

In short, the Toccata and Fugue approaches nothing Bach ever wrote for the organ, or ever wrote at all.

"It is certainly very different than any of his organ works," says Don Fellows, organist at St. Paul Cathedral in Oakland. "There are parts that don't fit the hands."

So if Bach did not write the Toccata and Fugue, then who did?

>>126912595
Idk but Bach always seemed too complex and daunting to listen to for me, whereas toccata and fugue is an easy listen. So there's that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wjbLH2LNTo
Graun

AH Symphony 8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTe2zhNGWrw&list=RDcTe2zhNGWrw&start_radio=1&ab_channel=SergioC%C3%A1novas

>>126912595
Petzold

Listening to Chamayou's Liszt, performers like this, like Bohm, might have it right: unleash and let loose with classical era works by playing them more romantically and rein in romantic era works by playing them with more of a classical sensibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyGgErRqrOc&list=OLAK5uy_my0dL6Yv_wDPNxppRfxGULpqSTIX6Z4_E&index=4

How can one tell if a piece is being played/conducted "well"? I've listened to classical music all my life, enjoy it tremendously, yet I am incapable of pronouncing such judgements. To me, 99% of the conductors/soloist play roughly the same (at least technique-wise), and if I ever have a criticism of something, it's almost always the tempo (usually that it's too fast). People have these ferocious arguments here or elsewhere about how X plays/conducts Y badly, but Z does it right, and while it's not like any two sound interpretations of anything sound identical to me, I can never go "yep, this is being played badly". I'm sure professional musicians can and do detect more than I do and from their mouths such statements sound valid to me, but IDK, it's just hair-splitting to me by that point. Maybe I'm just an unrefined pleb.

>>126913091
They should make a Conductor Hero

>>126913091
Some things are obvious, like whether the orchestra is actually together, whether the lines are clear. Although tempi are important, more critical are questions of articulation, intonation, and dynamics. If you listen to that Gergiev Tchaikovsky upthread and compare it to Markevitch conducting the same piece, the former is clearly sloppier and lazier despite being played at a similar tempo: mushy articulation and the pulse is non-existent. It sounds like the musicians are on autopilot and there's practically no effort to shape or direct the piece.

What should I think of John Rutter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnq66IoWVDM&list=PLQfgRwXKucg6uuLDvMiYj7--3bVC_Hy5V

Barenhoven Sonata 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25BCBH9tNaw&list=RD25BCBH9tNaw&start_radio=1&ab_channel=OndaCC

>>126913091
Tempo is the most obvious and important aspect of any interpretation, but once you're familiar with a piece there's certain moments that you simply want to hear in a particular manner, or balance/dynamic decisions which bring out parts that a composer specifically wanted or likely wanted. With pre-romantic music it's even harder since instructions as far as dynamics/balance were generally pretty sparse. The more familiar you are with a work, the more these little details will stand out to you on repeat listening. They may be small in isolation, but their culmination is usually what separates a good interpretation from a great one.

For example, I'm always on the look out for a good tam-tam crash during the climax of Mahler's 9th symphony. Most conductors totally skip it, despite Mahler's indications.

Or how about the string tremolos in the 1st movement development section fugue of Beethoven's 9th:
https://youtu.be/3dHWa17dOYM?t=418
You practically never hear it conducted that way, it totally changes the shape of the music. Here's how it's usually heard:
https://youtu.be/sYm9u45lGC4?list=RDsYm9u45lGC4&t=375

Or how about Siegfried's Funeral March in Gotterdammerung, where the Sword and Siegfried motifs keep trying to rise up triumphantly, but are supposed to be stamped out and pulverized by the Death motif.
https://youtu.be/OvAS-Oee93E?list=RDOvAS-Oee93E&t=160
Janowski nails this, the balance and articulation is perfectly conveyed with the Death motif truly crowning itself as the King of the movement. Now compare it to Solti.
https://youtu.be/LjkT2JYucZQ?list=RDLjkT2JYucZQ&t=169
This is not bad, but Death does not sting here. It's rather ho-hum. The other motifs stand out as more victorious than death - it all sounds rather empty.

>>126913399
>once you're familiar with a piece there's certain moments that you simply want to hear in a particular manner
Yeah, but that's completely subjective and has no bearing on "objective" quality
>inb4 all criticism is subjective
to an extent, but there are some universal sentiments

Why do I keep seeing Paul Kletzki's recordings posted for Beethoven's symphonies? Are they particularly good?

>>126913576
>Yeah, but that's completely subjective and has no bearing on "objective" quality
The poster I'm replying to is saying that they're unable to hear the difference between interpretations overall (99% of the time), this isn't really about whether or not something is objectively or subjectively better. Obviously what details you want to hear in a performance varies from person to person and that's part of the fun is figuring out your own tastes. And, of course, if Mahler writes down that he wants a triple forte crash on the tam-tam, I do want to hear that be loud as fuck in the recording.

>>126913622
don't know about his Beethoven but his Mahler 4 is the absolute standard as far as I'm concerned

>>126913664
Both of your replies are to my posts, anon, and I'm not seeing I hear no difference between interpretations (I do), what I'm saying is no particular interpretation sounds to me in any objective way better or worse than any other "serious" interpretation, i.e. by a group of professional, seasoned musicians. There are no markers of quality that are known and discernible to me, is what I'm saying, which is why I don't understand these fights about who did what best. It ultimately comes down, like you said, to what one wants to hear from a given piece, and these expectations are usually shaped by the consumption of many different interpretations. Ultimately, what I'm saying, musical criticism seems to me infinitely more amorphous and meaningless than, say, literary or film criticism

>>126913771
Which is why it's interpretation.

now playing

start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 13, TH 24 "Winter Daydreams"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_gC8Z3drK0&list=OLAK5uy_kRM17TNS4oC68B7F1BQehv6Z1TKfjEOTY&index=2

start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 2 in C Minor, Op. 17, TH 25 "Little Russian"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEny7ZNovuc&list=OLAK5uy_kRM17TNS4oC68B7F1BQehv6Z1TKfjEOTY&index=6

start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 3 in D Major, Op. 29, TH 26 "Polish"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONIURQftapc&list=OLAK5uy_kRM17TNS4oC68B7F1BQehv6Z1TKfjEOTY&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kRM17TNS4oC68B7F1BQehv6Z1TKfjEOTY

One of the greatest Tchaikovsky cycles.

>>126913771
>To me, 99% of the conductors/soloist play roughly the same
That's what you said. I gave examples of a few cases where that's not the case at all, including two where a composer specifically desired a specific effect that's often glazed over or skipped. Whether or not you find that to be an objective or subjective judgement is dependent on how much you value the art of interpretation and adherence to the letter. While you can certainly make out a good interpretation from a bad one without music education, you're always going to be missing part of the conversation.

Here's something I've brought up in this general a few times now, going back to Wagner. Pic related is the beginning of the Siegfried Act 3 Prelude. It starts piano, builds a crescendo, climaxes in a forte. Objectively speaking, we can say that there should, on the part of the orchestra and conductor, be an attempt to reflect Wagner's dynamic intentions during this piece. How pedantic you want to be is up subjective perhaps, but Wagner's intentions here are clear.

For example, Barenboim:
https://youtu.be/BLfTvcqwf1E?list=RDBLfTvcqwf1E&t=9
I wouldn't really say that this has the dynamics nailed. It sounds a little too dynamically flat for me; there's no true rise from piano to forte. Therefore I do not consider it an accurate portrayal of the artist's intentions.

Now compare it to Bohm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vbnv768gVE&list=RD3Vbnv768gVE&start_radio=1
This *is* dynamically correct. We get a true forte and the tactility of this Prelude comes together in a way that I consider superior to the previous recording. Whether or not you consider this important is up to subjectivity, but when reading the score it's pretty obvious what the composer objectively wanted. If music criticism seems too amorphous to you, then you're likely reading too many critics that refuse to elaborate their opinions with a basis in the score, and with a shallow view of the discography.

>>126913622
>Why do I keep seeing Paul Kletzki's recordings posted for Beethoven's symphonies?
Hurwitz's influence is immense.

>>126913959
>One of the greatest Tchaikovsky cycles.
Admit it: 4, 5, 6 is better.

>>126914771
I meant the overall set is one of the best, the performances of the 4th, 5th, and 6th included. I just felt like listening to the first three at this particular moment.

>>126910347
Not Tchaik's!

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQ3MPSfPBw

I really don't care for Lang Lang's Bach Goldberg Variations.

Raff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCGldoGlFIY

>>126915464
no one here does I think

>>126912595
It was most likely J L Krebs. Krebs may have transcribed a Bach violin piece for organ.
https://www.ccarh.org/publications/cm/15/cm15-07b-vankranenburg.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63dg3keD-5A

>>126912595
my theory is that the Toccata and Fugue is from Bach's imitation of Italian music in his early years as a composer so of course it's unusual when compared to the rest of his works. You should also compare it to another of his early keyboard pieces: the D major toccata bwv 912a.

https://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=35805#google_vignette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=GLJbcBh3I9g

>>126916067
The teacher-student chain was the primary method of passing on copies. Works by a student may be mistaken for works of the teacher. Krebs was a student of Bach. Statistical analysis supports the notion that BWV 565 is stylistically Krebs’s work.

>>126916291
I guess it sucks to be Krebs then.

>>126916325
For the reasons you state, it may actually be by Bach. I may be overstating the case for Krebs.

>>126916407
BWV 565 is slop for the masses. There is no way that Bach composed it.

>>126916470
>popularity bad
Bach’s genius literally enabled him to anticipate horror movie soundtracks.

>>126916519
If it wasn’t Krebs, then it may have been Mendelssohn. I wouldn’t put it past a Jew to try to pass off one of his works as Bach’s own.

>>126916552
Retard

Josef Seger - 7 Toccatas & Fugues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOwd6mUF8uU&list=RDlOwd6mUF8uU&start_radio=1&ab_channel=vanille_chose

>>126916723
>Norbert

such a funny sounding name.

>>126911767
trifonov, sofronitsky, richter

ch-ch-ch-cherish my love~

let's welcome July 4th with...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOpyrOq2zo&list=OLAK5uy_kU4ZV-yKPUB5umE9Uurd1daEsFrB4jbms&index=1

>>126916582
I am just ahead of my time. In 200 years people will believe that a secular Jewish Lesbian wrote all of Bach’s music.

A yes...the fourth of July-nice job Ives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TxDFCUtgK8&list=PL6bLSbq1os-V8JUPHpc1frjMJdjEMVc9B&index=4&ab_channel=MichaelTilsonThomas-Topic

who the fuck is Mendelssohn Bartholdy

>>126916582
I am just ahead of my time. In 200 years people will believe that a jewish lesbian (and an Atheist) wrote all of Bach’s music. Exhibit A: Christopher Columbus.

>>126917090
Christopher Columbus wrote Bach's music?

>>126917090
Are you insinuating that Bach was secretly a Jewish lesbian atheist? A fictional Jewish character hasn’t replaced Christopher Columbus; researchers have uncovered documents that shed light on his ethnic background.

Liszt : Deux Légendes for orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO1hMen2ZNQ&list=RDYO1hMen2ZNQ&start_radio=1&ab_channel=Rodders

>>126917118
>>126917131
Christopher Columbus was as much a Jew as Bach was an atheist. The Lesbian part was my attempt at humor. However, in all seriousness, I wouldn’t be surprised if these ‘researchers’ produce ‘clandestine’ documents revealing that Bach was a transgender atheist.

>>126917172

There was a great deal of incentive for Columbus to hide his background; the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, and they faced increased persecution before then. Also, no one with a brain believes that Bach was an atheist.

>>126917308
shut up, retard.

>Americans can’t make good classical mus-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5a2RXA2Jn8&t=198s&pp=2AHGAZACAQ%3D%3D

Apologize

>>126918204
I apologize for not shitting on americunt classical music enough. It's so irrelevant I don't even care.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nunk9fRaZZs

>>126905894
Classical isn't a "genre".
>>126910616
Poulenc's sonatas for clarinet, oboe, flute, and Stabat Mater.
Messiaen's Réveil des oiseaux, Oiseaux exotiques, Des Canyons aux étoiles..., Livre du Saint-Sacrement, Méditations sur le Mystère de la Sainte Trinité, Catalogue d'oiseaux, the list goes on...

>>126918873

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-5NXj2DJA&list=RD7r-5NXj2DJA&start_radio=1&ab_channel=olla-vogala

I've not finished but that's really good so far, never even heard of Poulenc

best recordings of Goldberg Variations & Art Of The Fuge?
preferably on Piano

>>126913637
>>126919315
mfw I listen to Barcarolle's coda by Zimerman

Saint Saens loved his hautbois

>>126919670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecc5FV26mvE

>>126919329
>Goldberg piano
Vladimir Feltsman. Don't forget to close it off with Bach's very own 14 canons based on the main theme of the variations, and for that I recommend Daniel-Ben Pienaar
>Art of Fugue piano
Charles Rosen easily, except for Contrapuncti 5, 13, and 14, for which I'd pick Joanna MacGregor (Rosen is still good though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRBUA5rgaLs&ab_channel=BuskaidSouthAfrica

>>126913622
They're OK. As Hurwitz says they bring out the bass lines pretty good and are well balanced on the whole, but I do feel like they lack a little bit of drive/energy.

>>126920051
>drive/energy

I though that was what Kletzki was known for? Aren't his recordings usually on the swift side? Anyway, Hurwitz has this love affair with the Czech Philharmonic and seems to praise them no matter what. That's certainly a big part of his advocacy for Kletzki.

Now how's that for an album cover?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=102&v=W0Whv5waUMU&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.classicfm.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDEzOTExNywyMzg1MQ

>>126913622
Kletzki's cycle is perfect and there's nothing wrong with it, I really haven't heard better 3,5,7,8,9s

Pavane For A Dead Princess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUri7-cClc0&list=RDvUri7-cClc0&start_radio=1&ab_channel=OrchestreNationaldeFrance%28ORTF%29-Topic

>>126919707
Does Dave like hautbois as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQcQVGEGAGE&list=RDoQcQVGEGAGE&start_radio=1&ab_channel=thenameisgsarci

>>126920221

did Scriabin ever finger A-minor?

Do you think Glenn ever had a Gouldfriend?

>>126920289
>really haven't heard better 3,5,7,8,9s

That's quite something

>>126920792
Why

>>126920936
For one cycle to have the best (or among the best) recordings of symphonies 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9 would be truly remarkable

>>126921056

For one composer to have the best (or among the best) symphonies would be truly remarkable. Beethoven can only have 1 great symphony.

>>126921099
What is it you don't understand?

>>126921124
Your reasoning (there is none).

>>126921122
We're talking about recordings though, not compositions. The extraordinary claim (and that's what it is) here is that Kletzki's Beethoven cycle contains second-to-none revordings of all the important symphonies (except 6). If that's correct it would make Kletzki's cycle pretty much the best of them all. Curiously, it's not a very famous cycle at all. I'm not saying anon is deginitely wrong, I'm just saying it would be remarkable.

>>126921166
>We're talking about recordings though, not compositions.
No difference. Not in this context.
>Kletzki's Beethoven cycle contains second-to-none revordings of all the important symphonies (except 6).
No, I just dislike the 6th. I also think his 6th is the best but admittedly I haven't listened to many 6ths.
>it would make Kletzki's cycle pretty much the best of them all.
He is. When it comes to Beethoven symphonies, absolutely. It's not really remarkable, great conductors and orchestras often record entire cycles, and those tend to be better than individual recordings.

>>126921202
>orchestras often record entire cycles, and those tend to be better than individual recordings

That does not compute at all.

>>126920289
>I really haven't heard better 3,5,7,8,9s

How many have you heard?

>>126921241
Hard to say. From start to finish, at least 5 different acclaimed ones of 3rd I guess, is that too few? I can't tolerate hiss, those are excluded.

>>126921278
>is that too few

Not necessarily, but at least it puts your "I haven't heard any better" in context

>>126921278
>I can't tolerate hiss, those are excluded

It also seems pointless to discuss classical music recordings with someone who will not even consider anything from the golden age of recording (guess what? it's called that for a reason)

>>126921381
Why do you keep posting these

>>126921391
>anything from the golden age of recording (guess what? it's called that for a reason)
Clearly not for the quality of the audio

>>126920289
That's interesting because I foudn the best of Kletzki's Beethoven to be symphonies 1 and 6...I just feel like his style fits stuff like the 2nd movement (a movement I have a sentimental attachment to) of the first so well. The whole cycle is good but yeah those two only are the standouts to me

>>126922060
Ok who has the best 3rd and 7th

>>126922122
I have no idea. For the 3rd my preferences are inconsistent and it totally depends on my mood. People will point and laught at me here but I really like Gardiner's, and sometimes I don't want that at all and would rather listen to Leinsdorf. As for the 7th I like basically every performance of it I listen to so it's hard to care

>>126921278
Kletzki's recording has hiss tho
Unless you're listening to the really bad modern remaster that actually makes the recording sound way worse
>>126921428
Eh, wouldn't exactly call the Kletzki cycle an audiophile's dream either. Those CPO recordings all kinda sound weird.

>When he scored Night Falls on The Gods, he had accepted the failure of Siegfried and the triumph of the Wotan-Loki-Alberic trinity as a fact. He had given up dreaming of heroes, heroines, and final solutions, and had conceived a new protagonist in Parsifal, whom he announced, not as a hero, but as a fool, armed, not with a sword which cut irresistibly, but with a spear which he held only on condition that he did not use it: one who, instead of exulting in the slaughter of a dragon, was ashamed of having shot a swan

>>126922350
So, a pussy

>>126922348
>Kletzki's recording has hiss tho
No it doesn't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnCdHzXdrBs

What's your favorite conspiracy theory, /classical/

>>126922429
Please give me a Vivaldi banjo concerto waow

>>126922405
>AAD STEREO

Analog recording inevitably means tape hiss is present to some extent

>>126901803
once again proving my point, Fuck Brahms and Mozart.

There is only Bach, Debussy, and Ravel with Scriabin as the supreme God

>>126922405
Yeah that's the really bad remaster that denoised the crap out of it.
Ugh it sounds worse than I remember

>>126922547
>Ugh it sounds worse than I remember
Delusional. It sounds better than hiss. And it sounds better/is better played than most modern recordings.

Koroliov's Bach Goldberg Variations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L9SYt9rED8&list=OLAK5uy_lBcr4WW5-mYp1RmDD64lC9atQnOTfawow&index=1

>>126922574
Denoising always removes room ambiance, makes the recording sound emptier than it actually is, and is generally not preferred for remasters. It's trying to make a recording into what it is not. It's like taking a 4k scan for a classic film and de-noising the crap out of it to make it more like a digital video; sure you lose the noise, but a lot of details get taken away with it.

now playing

start of Brahms: Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 68
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-FbVgZceE&list=OLAK5uy_nBcfyXMgmx18ubPSWTjOdGcrXnCYQ0NR0&index=1

start of Brahms: Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op. 73
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJnpTrGJqA&list=OLAK5uy_nBcfyXMgmx18ubPSWTjOdGcrXnCYQ0NR0&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nBcfyXMgmx18ubPSWTjOdGcrXnCYQ0NR0

>The combination of the incomparable sound and musicianship of the Berliner Philharmoniker and the iconoclastic, visionary approach that has characterized Sir Simon's music-making over the past thirty years is likely to result in a set of recordings that will challenge, invigorate, and refresh this well-known and cherished repertoire.

> In the words of Die Zeit, "Simon Rattle has finally dared to tackle Brahms with the Berliner Philharmoniker. He combines Furtwängler's monumentality with Karajan's beautiful sound . . .". Rattle confirms that performing these works with the Berliner Philharmoniker, which has been hailed as the world's greatest Brahmsian, orchestra "gives you a possibility of colours that you have almost nowhere else. . . . I can say to this orchestra, `I need a different sound' and the sound changes immediately."

>>126922675
>and the iconoclastic, visionary approach that has characterized Sir Simon's music-making over the past thirty years

>>126922675
>He combines Furtwängler's monumentality with Karajan's beautiful sound

So which is it??

>>126922718
combining them *is* the innovation :D

>>126922731
Oh please...

>>126922429
mozart illuminatti (real btw)

>>126922737
>t. rattle'd

>>126922759
At least it wasn't Rattle who wrote those asinine blurbs

The four best Tchaikovsky cycles: Jansons, Muti, (small gap), Karajan, Haitink

Agree/disagree?

>>126922778
Blame the marketing execs at Warner, I suppose.

>>126922574
>>126922630
Anyways compare for yourself, the remaster sounds significantly more veiled and less detailed, especially in the tuttis (less so in the more quiet moments, but still noticeable)
>old straight tape transfer
https://litter.catbox.moe/9443s5twcatmm8vg.mp3
>new remaster
https://litter.catbox.moe/olvnzh2ean5097uf.mp3
Headphones/in-ears recommended. There's a reason why many modern remasters started going back to straight tape transfers with minor fixes, because keener listeners realized how the post-processing was actually removing details from the music and making it sound less natural than the older unprocessed tape transfers. I can really only see preferring the latter in its more tubby, veiled sound if you're THAT allergic to tape noise.

Young-to-middle-age Lenny has such a pleasant, mellifluous voice and cadence, dude should have been a talk/radio show host. Old Lenny is tough, the nasality and the cigarette rasp wear on the ear.

Schumann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-pS8JkLvu8

more Brahms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW67fF8_RbE&list=OLAK5uy_kGqF4eXcYC4mJokfRecFOmPq391kwrTPc&index=1

Goddamn do I love these piano concertos.

what do you all think about this recording?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0icOAihIKc&list=OLAK5uy_lYcjatHBOJ9raY_ysy_miCCz9jWtweHlI&index=48

>>126922788
Mravinsky, Markevitch, and Jurowski are my favorites for cycles.
>but Mravinsky isn't a complete cycle!
Yeah, but no one cares about the first 3 symphonies.

Favourite and least favourite of the Ring cycle?

Favourite - Rheingold
Least favourite - Walkure

Walkure has so much FAT in it, if it were just act 1 alone and the Farewell+Magic Fire were the prelude to Siegfried, the whole cycle would be so much tighter

>>126923044
Trifomeme

>>126923151
I agree with that ranking. Walkure has an excellent first Act and then it kinda goes down hill from there, somewhat saved by the tail end of Act 2 and Act 3. It's easily Wagner's most inconsistent part of the Ring cycle.

>>126923151
I hate all of Walkure act 1 except for the beginning up until the voices start, that beginning is great

>>126923151
I've listened least to Siegfried

>>126922788
>>126923053
This.

>>126923175
It's the one where I most find myself waiting for the next "good bit".

>>126923182
Siegfried is so underrated on a musical level - I agree with those who say Siegfriend is an extremely unsympathetic hero, so it can lag a bit dramatically, but the forging song, forest sequence, "heil dir sonne" are all so amazing it's totally redeemed

>>126923162
noooo

i've been demolished

does Bach have any melodies? in his solo piano music especially

Schubert. Yet to be disappointed by Monteux.

https://youtu.be/QA8WEuwiVHQ

>>126923615
He has melodies. But they are almost all diatonic (read: boring) for the sake of combining it with other similar melodies. Listen to Chopin.

>>126923846
so true chopincel

>>126923615
Yes lol

>>126923846
Ah, so that's why it sounds the way it sounds.

>>126924052
hmm

>>126923044
Now this is bomb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQ-Y0b3Ajs&list=OLAK5uy_lYcjatHBOJ9raY_ysy_miCCz9jWtweHlI&index=36

>>126923846
Chopin's got beautiful melodies but I like Bach melodies even more

adorno hits a lot less when you realise he was a failed composer

>>126924346
I suspect people's perception of Schoenberg and the SVS would be substantially different were it not for him.

>>126924346
Irrelevant. You don't need to be a great artist to be a great critic, theorist, and/or philosopher. They're different roles. Hell, many great artists make for poor critics and theorists.

>>126924424
it explains his whole energy. good composers don't care about jazz music or supermarkets or sibelius. bad ones do

>>126924424
I think it's relevant in Adorno's case given he was not only a critic but had strong opinions about the overall direction of music and was influential in curating and shaping perception of what music ought to be. This was a conversation he failed to participate in musically.

now playing

start of Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 35, TH 59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHw-oPS9KM&list=OLAK5uy_nzQTIle3RBJr3usrQvQVqJUJw8g3UyVXY&index=2

Tchaikovsky: Sérénade mélancolique, Op. 26, TH 56 for violin and orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-GRgBOtxo&list=OLAK5uy_nzQTIle3RBJr3usrQvQVqJUJw8g3UyVXY&index=5

Tchaikovsky: Valse-Scherzo, Op. 34, TH 58 for violin and orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxxTqm9QVQw&list=OLAK5uy_nzQTIle3RBJr3usrQvQVqJUJw8g3UyVXY&index=6

start of Tchaikovsky: Souvenir d'un lieu cher, Op. 42, TH 116
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWcnvqpkRlM&list=OLAK5uy_nzQTIle3RBJr3usrQvQVqJUJw8g3UyVXY&index=6

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nzQTIle3RBJr3usrQvQVqJUJw8g3UyVXY

>>126924467
Again, different fields, different skillsets.

>>126924467
>>126924424
>>126924346
So was Nietzsche also a failed composer or did he just dabble on the side

>>126924129
This is incredible. Someone else please give it a listen.

>>126924500
Not really. He could not inspire by example so he instead used other composer's music as a vehicle to make moral arguments.

>>126924567
*composers'

>>126924567
Yes. Artists are distinct from historians, critics, theorists, philosophers, and the like. Adorno could not have been Beethoven but Beethoven could not have been Adorno. They're both necessary and contribute different things to culture, thought, and life.

>>126924617
There's nothing necessary about primitive clerical moralism.

>>126924625
Example?

>>126924262
>I like Bach melodies even more
Foul

>>126924262
>I like Bach melodies even more
Fair

>bach's melodies

>chopin's melodies

gonna go through this Beethoven String Quartet set by the Alexander String Quartet. anyone familiar? The praise I'm reading from those who enjoy it is effusive and superlative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vmX0-rN-Gc&list=OLAK5uy_mYAXEXSH_3TEsIFHHTbI87fz82dzH6ybo&index=37

>To summarise: the ASQ provide a most natural feel to their interpretations. I admired their splendidly matched phrasing together with an intuitive grasp of structure. The dynamics are rarely overstated and their choice of tempi feels just right. The exceptionally clear and dry sound is closely caught. I loved the quite exceptional essays from musicologist Eric Bromberger. These add appeal to the overall presentation. The ASQ can take considerable credit from these superb interpretations. Their dedication and insight has paid off as this set is one of the very finest available. The Takács on Decca are now no longer clear first choice in the catalogue. This Foghorn set is unquestionably one of my ‘Records of the Year’ for 2009. ---- Michael Cookson

>>126924774
Honestly if you listen to the St. Anne prelude and fugue and it doesn't make you feel like your third eye just opened then there is a missing part of your spirit.

>>126924795
Sorry for the doublepost -- I'm going through the set starting from the very beginning, as I often do, and I gotta say, I haven't heard the first string quartet, Op. 18, No. 1, sound so good in a long, long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEm7u43rZsU&list=OLAK5uy_mYAXEXSH_3TEsIFHHTbI87fz82dzH6ybo&index=1

Certainly bodes well for the rest of the set!

>>126924788
This clearly belongs to Beethoven.

I remember still the first time I saw the Vagner meme.
It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.
Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"
/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.
I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.
They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.

>>126924129
It's a valiant effort but I don't think it works terribly well in transcription.

>>126923151
>Walkure has so much FAT in it
That's because it carries a pretty hefty amount of plot explication and development in act 2. But IMO act 3 is perfect, of course everyone loves Ride of the Valkyries and Wotan's Farwell, but everything between that is just great drama and music as well.

new
>>126924931

>>126924931

>>126924931

>“[...] he played me the Fourth Prelude and Fugue (C-sharp minor). Now, I knew what to expect from Liszt at the pianoforte; but from Bach himself, much as I had studied him, I never expected what I learnt that day. For then I saw the difference between study and revelation; through his rendering of this single fugue Liszt revealed the whole of Bach to me, so that I now know of a surety where I am with him, can take his every bearing from this point, and conquer all perplexity and every doubt by power of strong faith.”

>During his studies with Weinlig he had tried to discover the secret of Mozart's fluency and lightness in solving difficult technical problems. In particular he tried to emulate the fugal finale of the great C major Symphony, 'magnificent, never surpassed', as he called it years later, and at eighteen he wrote a fugato as the finale of his C major Concert Overture, 'the very best that I could do, as I thought at the time, in honour of my new examplar'. In the last years of his life he liked to call himself the 'last Mozartian'. He played Brünnhilde's E major passage from the last act of Die Walküre, 'Der diese Liebe mir ins Herz gelegt', and lamented the general failure to appreciate his sense of beauty which, he believed, made him 'Mozart's successor'.

>The beauteous naked man is the kernel of all Spartanhood; from genuine delight in the beauty of the most perfect human body - that of the male - arose that spirit of comradeship which pervades and shapes the whole economy of the Spartan State. This love of man to man, in its primitive purity, proclaims itself as the noblest and least selfish utterance of man's sense of beauty, for it teaches man to sink and merge his entire self in the object of his affection. . . . The higher element of that love of man to man consisted even in this: that it excluded the motive of egoistic physicalism. Nevertheless it not only included a purely spiritual bond of friendship, but this spiritual friendship was the blossom and the crown of the physical friendship. The latter sprang directly from the delight in the beauty, aye in the material bodily beauty of the beloved comrade.

>Again, of Beethoven and Mozart Wagner said: “As far as fugues are concerned, these gentlemen can hide their heads before Bach. They played with the form, wanted to show they could do it too, but he showed us the soul of the fugue. He could not do otherwise than write in fugues.”

>>126924976
>>126924986
>>126925001
>>126925014
vagner...

>About Mendelssohn, Wagner said: “Mendelssohn is a great landscape-painter, and his palette has a richness that is unequalled. No one else transposes the external beauty of things into music as he does. The Cave of Fingal, among others, is an admirable picture. He is able, conscientious, and clever. Yet, in spite of all these gifts, he fails to move us to the depths of the soul: it is as if he painted only the appearance of sentiment and not sentiment itself.” On February 8, 1876, Wagner’s wife Cosima wrote: “In the evening an amateur concert, Mendelssohn’s Reformation Symphony, the second movement makes Richard think of Tetzel: “When the money in the cashbox rings, the soul at once to heaven wings.” Tezel was a 15th Century Catholic monk who sold indulgences. This rhyme was a popular saying satirizing Tetzel.

>>126924976
>>126924986
>>126925001
>>126925014
>>126925031
what did Vawgner think of Mawler?

>>126925833
They were not composing contemporarily unfortunately for us in the peanut gallery

>>126925849
i just meant as a person

what did Wagner think of The Beatles (the boy band)?

favorite Liszt Concerto recording?
also Sonata.

>>126926131
ask in the new thread
>>126924934

>>126926562
thanks, i somehow didn't realize there was a new thread.