Thread 127013981

Rachmaninoff edition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p9hGtIO0Fk&list=OLAK5uy_maujJ0b4rUGiI5O8jjNfDrWk0btnRURcM&index=1

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFeh

Previous: >>126976536

Handel > Bach
seethe, cope, cry

>>127014000
We heard you the last time.

Haydn > Mozart

anyone know how this set is? feel like listening to a new Shostakovich cycle, but I know his music isn't really one that benefits from 'complete cycles' anyway so this is really the only one left lol

what are the spiritual ramifications of listening to non-classical music?

>>127014028
>I know his music isn't really one that benefits from 'complete cycles'
Why?

>>127014037
You're promoting garbage and encouraging the behavior, wasting your time listening to inexpressive dull music, tricking your brain into thinking this shallow music is "art", list goes on.

>>127014049
His symphonies don't really benefit from a unifying vision, and many benefit from different things. In other words, there's no Shostakovich fan who would say any one set or even conductor does all or even most of the symphonies the best. Maybe Vasily Petrenko but I'm trying to stay away from his because I already am familiar and love his.

Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and Handel all enjoyed consuming alcohol and pork.

>>127014074
i've heard of people getting AIDS from pop music also.

>>127014078
I think that's just exteme nitpicking. Conductors can have "unifying vision" as well as complete opposite of that. It's not like they're hardwired to conduct in just one style.
>>127014082
lol. very insightful post.

>>127014078
What about Leonard Bernstein's renditions?

>>127014112
My point is conducting a great Shostakovich 4th is way different than a great 8th which is way different than a great 11th and 12th.

>>127014119
He only has a handful of the symphonies.

how do you pronounce Brahms?

>>127014112
Do you think it is merely a coincidence that the greatest composers ever drank beer and ate bacon?

>>127014177
they also inhaled Water and drank Oxygen
i wonder if there is a pattern here

>>127014185
Oy vey

Scriabin

>>127014028
I'm listening to Rostropovich's Complete Symphonies of Shostakovich and am enjoying it.

listening to the ring cycle in one sitting, currently on Siegfried

>>127014028
I'm listening now. Barshai's No. 7 is competent; but it sounds much softer to other recordings. It feels much more subtle and sweeter.

best recording for each Shostakovich symphony?

>>127014209
I do like that one quite a bit.

>>127014177
you are forgetting about Mahler, the greatest composer of all time.

>>127014256
Depends on what you want. Live or studio?

>>127014242
I always thought the 7th would benefit from a softer interpretation. Make it more Mahleresque if you get me. Take it from the anxious, thundering storm of Shostakovich into the kaleidoscopic, habitable universe of Mahler.

>>127014273
I'm cool with whatever. Just saying I really enjoy that Rostropovich cycle, and I'm glad you are too.

>>127014246
Ask me in a few months.

>>127014257
What did he write?

>>127014224
Your brain will be cooked. I can't even take on a Mahler symphony in one sitting without dozing off at the last movement. That's why I'm listening only to the finale of Mahler 6th rn, I'm too familiar with the rest of the symphony, whereas I feel the finale still has things to offer.

Wagner's ring is meant to be experienced daily in a span of 2 weeks, at least

>>127014246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8L6q6ODgKw
This was my all time favourite a few years ago but the other interpretations ITT are better for different reasons.

>>127014303
>I can't even take on a Mahler symphony in one sitting without dozing off at the last movement. That's why I'm listening only to the finale of Mahler 6th rn, I'm too familiar with the rest of the symphony, whereas I feel the finale still has things to offer.
damn I know this exact feel too well

>>127014335
Are you the Mahlerkun?

>>127014306
well that doesn't really answer my question at all, but thanks anyway.

What's the greatest 21st century recording of Beethoven's Eroica?

>>127014335
>>127014303
short attention spans

>>127014352
Chailly

>>127014360
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jruN-ZTIdak

>>127014355
The first 3 movements amount to 40 minutes of quite complex music, is the problem really our short attention span or is Mahler just pushing us to the edge? If it's not that long, why didn't Mahler write longer symphonies? Why didn't Bruckner or Beethoven?

>BernSTEIN
nope, no thanks, not in my classical.

>>127014372
yeah they really are too short aren't they? that's the only problem with them.

>>127014303
>>127014335
I put it as I know 95%+ of the first third of every symphony, 75-80% of the second third, and 40-60% of the last third lol. I should listen to just the finales more often too.

>>127014352
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNoFrfFZpQw&list=OLAK5uy_l55lBOM2SxuNQtyWgOVgVPc0WkVLdWVbw&index=9

>>127014379
LOL. Excellent cop out.
>>127014384
>I should listen to just the finales more often too.
Yup. I take it you're the Mahlerkun, I saw you made a similar comment long ago, if I recall correctly. I'll listen to the finales of Mahler symphonies now

Best classical bops for a lit TikTok?

>>127014430
>bops
not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/mu/?

>>127014476
chill out, boomer

now playing

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 4 in C Minor, Op. 43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXobjfwFTD8&list=OLAK5uy_nVlRzpJlULP7F5Zfwr7-1k_hKBEqmpn44&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nVlRzpJlULP7F5Zfwr7-1k_hKBEqmpn44

>Completed in 1936 but withdrawn during rehearsal and not performed until 1961, the searing Fourth Symphony finds Shostakovich stretching his musical idiom to the limit in the search for a personal means of expression at a time of undoubted personal and professional crisis. The opening movement, a complex and unpredictable take on sonata form that teems with a dazzling profusion of varied motifs, is followed by a short, eerie central movement. The finale opens with a funeral march leading to a climax of seismic physical force that gives way to a bleak and harrowing minor key coda. The Symphony has since become one of the most highly regarded of the composer's large-scale works.

>Gramophone Recording of the Month, November 2013

>Perhaps the best of Petrenko's much-praised cycle, then, and a strong contender for 'best in catalogue'. The skewed logic of the piece is made gripping, the disparate and the enigmatic reconciled. --Edward Seckerson, Gramophone

>I heard the first London performance of Shostakovich's Fourth Symphony way back when, the Philharmonia conducted by Rozhdestvensky. Though the details have faded from the memory, I recall the audience's response. From the xylophone's dancing skeleton at the beginning to the hushed pedal-point an hour later, this terrific performance by the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic under Vasily Petrenko will leave you equally overwhelmed. --Gramophone

>>127014430
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTeTaXJruhU

The most memorable recording of Peer Gynt was this Vidya game soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-VKrwqdctg

>>127014653
What's this?

>>127014804
>A psychologically probing, compulsively readable novel about dogged love and the unpredictability of human relationships―from the Nobel Prize–winning author of Disgrace. Exacting yet maddeningly unpredictable, J. M. Coetzee’s The Pole tells the story of Wittold Walccyzkiecz, a vigorous, “extravagantly white-haired” Polish pianist who becomes infatuated with Beatriz, a stylish patron of the arts, after she helps organize his Barcelona concert. Although Beatriz, a married woman, is initially unimpressed by Wittold, she soon finds herself pursued and ineluctably swept into the world of the journeyman performer. As he sends her letters, extends countless invitations to travel, and even visits her husband’s summer home in Mallorca, their unlikely relationship blossoms, though, it seems, only on her terms. The power struggle between them intensifies― Is it Beatriz who limits their passion by controlling her emotions? Or is it Wittold, trying to force into life his dream of love? Evocative of Joyce’s “The Dead,” The Pole is a haunting work, evoking the “inexhaustible palette of sensations, from blind love to compassion” ( El País ) typical of Coetzee’s finest novels.

>>127014028
>>127014078

Have you seriously not heard the Kondrashin cycle?

>>127014866
Too raw, aggressive, anxious, discordant, and Russian for my taste. Perhaps that's more accurate, more true to the spirit, heart, and intention of Shostakovich's music, but I go where my ears take me, and they prefer his music smoothed out.

>>127014896
Fair enough.

>>127014807
Sounds fantastic, thanks. How much does music feature in it?

>>127014413
Let us know which ones you end up enjoying the most! I'mma guess the finales of the 2nd, 6th, and 10th.

>>127014866
How are his 8th, 10th, 11th, and 12th? The serene or atmospheric of Shostakovich's symphonies.

>>127014991
I absolutely love his 11th. There's a lot of competition for 10, so Kondrashin's probably wouldn't be my first pick. His cycle is consistently good though.

Koroliov's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20X5DXj1_as&list=OLAK5uy_nrlaSVUcYOA9UfNoUXJyOnbSDUFMGnIVk&index=44

Ralph Moore's recommended recordings of Bach's Goldberg Variations from his survey:

>Historical mono: Gould 1955 in the Zenph recreation
>Live: Lifschitz 2012; Nikolayeva 1983, 1986, 1987
>Studio: Gould 1981; Lifschitz 1994; Perahia 2000; Levit 2015; Tharaud 2015; Rana 2016

https://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/May/Bach_Goldberg_survey.pdf

Three Nikolayeva recordings! But not her studio one, odd. I'm deducing it was written in 2016 so Wurtz, Lang Lang, and Ólafsson weren't out yet, so who knows how he felt about those. Thoughts?

>>127015180
The Goldberg variations again…
I bet you haven’t even listened to 1/4 of the BWV catalogue.

>>127015180
>Historical mono: Gould 1955 in the Zenph recreation
>Recreation
>Historical

what a pleb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrKqbG5-Wf8

>>127014955
It's loosely based on Shostakovich's playing style from what I can tell, as Coetzee took inspiration from the Chopin competition that Shostakovich failed at.

>>127014896
Wanting the edge taken off of Shostakovich of all composers...

Let me read you this from the Dresden Anzeiger of Februrary the 14th, 1883:

"A heavy and altogether unexpected bereavement has befallen musicians of every race, country, and degree. We learn by telegraph from Venice that the greatest of contemporary composers, Richard Wagner, the second husband of Cosima Liszt, died there at four o'clock of yesterday afternoon. He occupied a loftier station than king or kaiser, pope or president. No monarch was ever more enthusiastically served than has been Richard Wagner. Infalliability, embodied in a Roman pontiff, has never been more implicitly believed in by the most orthodox Catholic than it has been in the person of the Bayreuth Prophet!"

Put well, do you not think? Put well....

>>127015449
I'd rather get to know every itch of his greatest works, yes.

>>127015449
I'd rather get to know every inch of Bach's greatest works, yes.

>>127013981 (OP)

https://vocaroo.com/1koxBsWZeUid

Am I any good? I want to start posting some stuff to youtube but I want to check with you guys first.

>>127015827
Well, I don't live under Stalinism. Listening to severely anxious and gloomy music isn't cathartic, it only makes me feel anxious and gloomy. So yes, I prefer conductors and musicians who instead emphasize the formal musical aspects of Shostakovich's music, while smoothing out the dramatic narrative so it becomes enjoyable rather than overwhelming.

>>127014257
>But, as Mahler never tired of explaining to them, he felt a very real sense of horror at the thought of eating meat. Each evening he would order a vegetarian dish for the next day, and the restaurant staff would prepare it as best they could. His first course would usually consist of a roux soup, the second was an omelette followed by a vegetable dish, and finally a dessert and some apples or pears. One day, «the stage manager, who was a particular jokester, slipped the cook a tip and persuaded her to spice up Mahler’s vegetable soup with some chicken. The next day Mahler had nothing but praise for her vegetarian cuisine, everyone wanted to try it and his bowl was passed around, before finally arriving back empty at Mahler’s place. Delighted he ordered a second helping. He had not yet finished it when the buffo bass began to sing a variant of Marcel’s aria from Les Huguenots: “Piff, paff, pouf, murder them, murder them, cock-a-doodle-do”. Everyone was doubled up with laughter, and Mahler fled in horror.»

>>127016481
Doesn't sound like a made-up story at all.

>underplaying shostakovich

Why bother? I've heard performers prettify the great passacaglia from the first violin concerto - it loses EVERYTHING.

>>127016686
For you.

>>127016429
You're just singing, right? Because pianist doesn't bring out the bass melody.
As someone who doesn't like vocal music much (I listen to Liszt's transcription of that lied), it's not bad. I guess recording could've been better, but performance is very convincing, great job.

>>127016696
Sure, to each their own. But still, it's like saying you enjoy expressionist painting, only with the colors toned down a bit.

"In this palace /
the souls hear /
the last breath of Richard Wagner / perpetuating itself like the tide /
which washes the marble beneath"

It would be cool if more people posted vocaroos of their performances here, even if they're terrible, would be hilarious.

>>127016447
The edge is part of the musical aspects. Even after Stalin died Shostakovich may have had a brief moment of respite but his works moved more towards focusing on death and his regrets. Most of his late works (which are his best) tend to be heavily focused on death, which he was obviously afraid of. I don't think you can take away the edge and terror from Shostakovich's music without taking away half of its musicality. His last quartet is one of the best works in the genre but it's also the kind of piece that makes you want to consider ending it all. That's just the kind of musician he was.

>Aaron Copland has said that 'The difference between Beethoven and Mahler is the difference between watching a great man walk down the street and watching a great actor play the part of a great man walking down the street'. It is easy to see what Copland is driving at - the manifest element of impersonation in much of Mahler's music - but he does not go deep enough to explain why this should be. There is nothing superficial or insincere about Mahler, but only an underlying psychological instability. The real difference between Beethoven and him is that between watching a great man walk down a street in which he feels himself secure, and is therefore perfectly at ease with his greatness, and watching a great man walk down a street in which he feels himself totally insecure, and is therefore obliged to act out his greatness, self-consciously and defiantly - because he's scarcely able to credit it in his heart of hearts, uncertain whether the street will not suddenly cease to be a reassuring background and become hostile territory in which he will be an outcast.

The Mahler-as-outcast trope is becoming pretty stale. Yes, antisemitism was very real, and disgust ing, but Mahler held some of the absolute top jobs in the European music scene, and was mostly a celebrated conductor. He was invited to the USA to conduct. Most of his symphonies were performed in his lifetime. The victimization appears exaggerated to me.

>>127017032
Cool story bro

>>127013981 (OP)
Boy, look at that dog!

Need or keep?

I, for one, do not believe that Shostakovich had a beef with Stalin. He was a member of the Bolshevik party, and they were both intelligent, reasonable men (especially Stalin, and also yes, Hitler too. Unlike Churchill). I think their beef is purely fabricated to fit within both western and post-soviet propagandas, there are other examples which will be too off-topic to discuss so I'll stop here. I genuinely think they were buddies and/or just collegues, and Stalin did like to put on shows for the masses. Whereas Shostakovich was a neurotic guy who liked to play with dark and ironic themes.

But then again, I think majority of history is faked/misinterpreted, especially 20th century history.

>>127017115
I think you should be on medication.

>>127017104
Keep. No question about it.

>>127017115
A great deal of it comes from Testament, which has been called into question over the years. What's not up for debate is thay Shosty's music took a rather dramatic turn after the Lady Macbeth controversy and he hid his 4th symphony away for a very long time. Stalin did not care for that kind of music and obviously had an influence on him.

I personally think Testament is largely bogus, that there's no hidden message of tyranny in the 5th (or many of his works), and that Shostakovich was largely a patriot and supporter of the USSR. But I'm quite certain he did not like Stalin very much. Which isn't really that strange - Stalin is often remembered by his contemporaries rather poorly.

NP this remarkable recording of DSCH 10 by Karajan

Antoine Forqueray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz3yr6Fgcw0

>>127017115
Adolf Hitler, famously intelligent and reasonable man

>>127013981 (OP)
Newfag here. Fix the pastebin please

>>127016686
the idea that classical music ought to be "pretty" has ruined so many recordings.

>>127017269
Tbh the Macbeth controversy was well deserved for its plot alone. But yes, Shostakovich was obviously influenced by him to some degree, negatively or not would be impossible to tell. And even if they weren't total buddies, I highly doubt he was "living under the shadow hurr durr" or there are "le hidden messages!" In his music.
As for Stalin, he industrialized USSR from literal nothing to warmachine which defeated Hitler, and later acquired nukes, on which Russia's sovereignty relies on to this day, not one sane contemporary of his remembers him poorly. Of course, if you go by the popular, wikiepia-tier narrative, he's a bogeyman just like Adolf

>>127017484
You're talking about accomplishments of power and foreign policy. Yes, he had many successes there. But I don't think his contemporaries that lived under him particularly thought highly of those achievements when famine and social/cultural suffocation were still fresh on their minds. There's a reason so many famous artists and celebrities tried and succeeded to flee from the USSR. Even Stalin's favorite pianist (who was one of Shostakovich's best friends) hated him and thought he was a horrible person. So I am saying by these metrics, it would not be unusual for Shostakovich to think poorly of him when so many of his fellow artists did.

>>127017484
>Macbeth controversy was well deserved for its plot alone

So you're offended by a FICTIONAL woman who kills her husband because she wants to fuck a stud, yet believe that Stalin and Hitler were completely reasonable men? Is this the "trad" zoomer mindset? Do you get all your "information" from Joe Rogan podcasts?

This is off topic but the book The Court of the Red Tsar gives an interesting insight into the lives of those around Stalin and of course Stalin himself.
Fun fact: Stalin's favorite composition was Mozart's piano concerto No. 23

>>127017646
>You're talking about accomplishments of power and foreign policy
you can clearly tell the Anon you replied to is a sociopath so those are probably his only measures for what makes a person good

>>127017652
>Do you get all your "information" from Joe Rogan podcasts?
You're talking as if joe rogan is some radical figure rofl

>>127017765
Not at all, merely a bullshit seller. An age-old phenomenon.

>>127017646
Well, that's the job of a leader, so yes, those accomplishments are more relevant when you judge him. I'm sure even Shostakovich would agree. That doesn't mean he was a just leader and never did anything wrong obviously, this false dichotomy is exactly what blinds us from reality. But the Shosta / Stalin beef just sounds like cheesy propaganda to me. You have to keep in mind, Stalin was quite anti-semitic, oy vey.
>>127017652
You're misinformed about both men. And yes, that plot is indeed shameful.

>>127017953
And Shostakovich was pro-Jew, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZYB0yWYISc&list=RDmZYB0yWYISc&start_radio=1
This is amazing

Can you rec me comtemporary?
I'm struggling to find composers I'd like.
I like Ades, some stuff by Norman...
Adams is a bit old-fashioned, sometimes sounds like film music but can be fun at times.
Any good rec is appreciated.

BWV 6 ACH BLEIB BEI UNS

https://youtu.be/Vsp0h7dr64c?si=Ta9OEEb-pOCrljU4

vivaldi is clearly superior to bach, the german cult is so tedious

>>127016447
>he wants to turn Shostakovich into princess music

how do you pronounce Brahms?

>>127019512
the B, H, M & S is silent

>>127016447
anon, you're fucking gay

>>127019512
Stop asking the same stupid question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmGmjxP-PJo

>>127019580
Don't bully the Mahlerkun or else

>Rachmaninoff edition
Best recording for Scherzo in D Minor?
Is it Ashkenazy?

>>127019583
this video does not help

>>127019653
I've never listened to that piece, it has no opus number! Oh well, I'm probably still missing out on few gems like this.
>>127019669
What do you want?

>>127019743
>I've never listened to that piece
He composed it when he was only fourteen.

>>127017215
idk I think I need it.

>>127019512
Like pic rel but with an m.

>>127018246
Lera Auerbach

>>127017300
Excellent example of the superiority of warm, smoothed over Shostakovich.

>>127020338
nice

so we can mostly all agree MOST baroque solo keyboard works sound better on Piano, but what about Keyboard Concerti? or any orchestral piece with keyboards?

what is the best composition that has yet to be recorded?

Three years later, King Ludwig walked into the lake, arms up, drowning, seeking redemption, died. Cosima held the dead body of Wagner for 25 hours, so I'm told, but herself lived on for another 47 years. While the theater, the temple, on a hill outside Bayreuth, like that other hill outside that other city, so long ago. A temporary structure, still temporary, still there.

And Wagner?

Well....

>>127019315
Bach's legacy is not merely German, it is pan-European.
His crowning compositional achievement was to synthesise the most advanced features of the prevailing regional European musical traditions of his time, those being the Dutch/German, French and Italian, into one complete and superlative idiom representing the Occidental spirit.
In that respect his contribution to European music is similar to Marx's contribution to European philosophy, wherein the latter marshaled the insights of French political thought, British (Scottish) economic theory, and German metaphysics into a combined method (methodology) of the European Subject.

>>127020512
Probably the Messa Alta Sinfonica

>>127017300
excelent example of utter garbage just like his Mahler 6

now playing

start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 12 in E-Flat Major, Op. 127
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfos4PSGGY&list=OLAK5uy_nR6ZmHBBSiJFPO93ULE6CK0fomm-0Upys&index=2

start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 13 in B-Flat Major, Op. 130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwkL4plpkU0&list=OLAK5uy_nR6ZmHBBSiJFPO93ULE6CK0fomm-0Upys&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nR6ZmHBBSiJFPO93ULE6CK0fomm-0Upys

>The celebrated Dover Quartet, the young, Grammy-nominated ensemble brimming with prestigious awards and residencies, concludes it's critically acclaimed, three-volume Beethoven cycle with the composer's five monumental, revolutionary Late Quartets and imposing Grosse Fugue. The triple-album release comprises Beethoven's very last compositions - remarkable and often daunting works that upended the concept of the string quartet. Many critics and scholars consider them the ultimate expression of Beethoven's artistry. At the same time, lyrical, songlike "vocal" writing pervades the Late Quartets, delighting the same audiences who flocked to Rossini's operas. The Dover's first two Beethoven installments were greeted with ecstatic reviews: "Beethoven would find it hard to believe that his quartets could be played with such perfection of execution, such beauty of tone, such nuance of expression, and such keen understanding of his music's meaning and intent." (Fanfare) "Their Beethoven is, simply, perfection." (Classical CD Reviews)

>>127017032
Seems to have more to do with the state of modern intellectual man vs. classical man in general.

>>127020631
Non-Germans and atheists claim Bach as their own because they have an inferiority complex.

>>127021271
It's a stupid comparison anyways since Beethoven was as neurotic as they come. It would be a more apt comparison with someone like Haydn.

>>127017032
> Aaron Copland was born in Brooklyn, New York, on November 14, 1900. He was the youngest of five children in a Conservative Jewish immigrant family of Lithuanian origin.

>>127020631
you couldn't have made a worse case for bach if you'd tried

now playing

start of Janacek: 1.X.1905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQGAz8-o8yY&list=OLAK5uy_m73uMl72OTQif5ZkuYtte1YXPNUw_r6PY&index=2

start of Janacek: On an Overgrown Path
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8fZ1kePjAg&list=OLAK5uy_m73uMl72OTQif5ZkuYtte1YXPNUw_r6PY&index=4

start of Janacek: In the Mists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFM-3wYmVI8&list=OLAK5uy_m73uMl72OTQif5ZkuYtte1YXPNUw_r6PY&index=18

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m73uMl72OTQif5ZkuYtte1YXPNUw_r6PY

to paste a community review which serves as a nice blurb,
>Profound, moving Janacek!
>Alain Planès interpretation of the music of composer Léo Janacek (1854-1928) is extraordinary as represented on Oeuvres Pour Piano. The liner notes to this recording state: "It was around the turn of the last century, at the age of about fifty, Janacek (b. 1854) found his own original, inimitable style and thus, with Debussy, Satie, Stravinsky, Schoenberg and others took part in the creation of what we call modern music." The pieces presented here are 1905 Sonata - Mort/Death; Sur un sentier Recouvert/On An Overgrown Path; Dans Les Brumes/In the Mists; and Souvenir/Memory. This is brooding, moody, haunting, unsettling music for late nights and to get you through difficult times. Alain Planès plays beautiful, expressively. The music is wonderfully recorded and presented on the Harmonia Mundi label.

I'm getting sick of this /pol/tard
I've seen him spamming on multiple boards, it must all be the same person

>>127017032
>a great man walk down a street in which he feels himself totally insecure, and is therefore obliged to act out his greatness, self-consciously and defiantly - because he's scarcely able to credit it in his heart of hearts, uncertain whether the street will not suddenly cease to be a reassuring background and become hostile territory in which he will be an outcast.
Jewish neuroticism, everyone.

>>127021297
Personal suffering and doubt is overcome by Beethoven in his own music, it's not a cake walk for displaying all of his fears. And it's not like he ever doubted the fact that he was the greatest composer of the era. He firmly knew his own worth when compared with other people, meanwhile Mahler was always ranking himself lower compared with other people.

>>127021976
0200, let us rendezvous where Prokofiev became a man, and we'll go egg the /pol/tard's house

>>127017484
Lol, American funding and support was what made the Soviets an unstoppable war machine that defeated Hitler. Their total and humiliating failure to defend against Hitler's invasion was solely due to Stalin's retarded leadership.

Is Murray Perahia good at anything besides Bach?

>inb4 he's not even good at Bach

>>127022049
>>127022004
>>127021976
>>127020631
> [The Celt] loves bright colours, he easily becomes audacious, overcrowing, full of fanfaronade. The German, say the physiologists, has the larger volume of intestines (and who that has ever seen a German at a table-d'hote will not readily believe this?), the Frenchman has the more developed organs of respiration. That is just the expansive, eager Celtic nature; the head in the air, snuffing and snorting; A proud look and a high stomach, as the Psalmist says, but without any such settled savage temper as the Psalmist seems to impute by those words. For good and for bad, the Celtic genius is more airy and unsubstantial, goes less near the ground, than the German. The Celt is often called sensual; but it is not so much the vulgar satisfactions of sense that attract him as emotion and excitement; he is truly, as I began by saying, sentimental.
> All tendencies of human nature are in themselves vital and profitable; when they are blamed, they are only to be blamed relatively, not absolutely. This holds true of the Saxon's phlegm as well as of the Celt's sentiment. Out of the steady humdrum habit of the creeping Saxon, as the Celt calls him,--out of his way of going near the ground,--has come, no doubt, Philistinism, that plant of essentially Germanic growth, flourishing with its genuine marks only in the German fatherland, Great Britain and her colonies, and the United States of America; but what a soul of goodness there is in Philistinism itself!

>>127022082
Congrats, whoever wrote that, broke the pseud meter.

>>127021988
>He firmly knew his own worth when compared with other people, meanwhile Mahler was always ranking himself lower compared with other people.
That's not true at all, Mahler was extremely confident in his gifts as a conductor and composer, almost to the point of arrogance. He firmly believed that he'd be recognized as a genius after his death.

>>127022187
I've read about Mahler doubting the correctness of his own compositions quite often, like that one time when Strauss critiqued the orchestration in one of them. I don't think Beethoven would ever have tolerated something like that.

>“Don’t bother to look, I’ve composed all this already.”

>Gustav Mahler, to Bruno Walter who had stopped to admire mountain scenery in rural Austria.

>>127022012
Just like Ukraine, sister!

>>127022211
>I don't think Beethoven would ever have tolerated something like that.
maybe not, but Beethoven certainly had his moments of insecurity too. he famously said he did not care for his works before the Eroica, and he did feel the shadow of Mozart pretty heavily, and he was at least hesitant enough in his skills late in life to publish the Grosse Fugue separately after its bad reception during its premiere.

obviously they had major personality differences, Mahler did suffer from the usual Jewish neuroticism no doubt, but I sympathize with Mahler's situation since he had many more shadows lingering over him than Beethoven did. the amount of international music that Mahler was exposed to, as one of the most famous performers of his day, was significantly greater than Beethoven, and his immediate contemporaries were also generally more talented than Beethoven's.

>>127022319
>he famously said he did not care for his works before the Eroica
That's a rather bad example, because he only said that out of pride in his mature compositions.

>he was at least hesitant enough in his skills late in life to publish the Grosse Fugue separately after its bad reception during its premiere
Isn't that the case where he called the audiences cattle? I'm pretty sure he just removed it to increase the commercial viability of the work, not because of any doubts about it.


>I sympathize with Mahler's situation since he had many more shadows lingering over him than Beethoven did
I really can't think of a composer that suffered more, perhaps unnecessarily, than Beethoven. Are you referring to the death of Mahler's children?

>>127022219
Very arrogant. I would rather look at the Austrian mountains than listen to Mahler's 3rd.

>>127022358
I think he's talking about the accomplishments of the predecessors that he was tasked with matching/surpassing.

>>127022219
>‘Do you have to be there in person when you become immortal?’ This was Mahler’s answer when he was asked by a friend why he did not do more to ensure that his works were performed and better known: ‘Sooner or later, they themselves will do whatever is necessary.’
>Mahler himself seems not to have doubted that his time would come, only about the date when this process would begin. And so we find him writing to a French journalist in 1906 when the latter offered to promote his works in Paris: ‘I sometimes feel I shall not live to see “my time”; and then an echo from an unknown world comes just at the right moment.’ A third remark, again taken from a letter to Alma, is strangely moving and prophetic. Mahler was preparing for the first performance of his Fifth Symphony in Cologne in October 1904. However valiant, the Gürzenich Orchestra inevitably had problems with the Scherzo, prompting Mahler to comment: ‘Would that I could perform my symphonies for the first time fifty years after my death!’ And it was indeed about fifty years after his death that his works finally entered the repertory.

>>127022367
>>127022219
Greatness is aware of itself.

>>127022365
Yes.

>>127022375
>Mahler was clearly disenchanted by the whole aura surrounding Strauss: “Rather live in poverty and walk the path of the enlightened than surrender oneself to Mammon, don’t you agree? One day people will separate the wheat from the chaff – and when his day has passed, then my time will come.”

>>127022363
Agreed, but mostly because I associate Mahler's 3rd more with space than mountains.

>>127022409
>space
I don't see how you could ever make that association. Unless the first time you heard it was in Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

>>127022440
>Unless the first time you heard it was in Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
Yup.

>>127022440
NTA, I see it for his 10th and maybe his 9th. Not the third though.

>>127022440
>>127022442
Thank you, anime sisters

Greatest Japanese classical composer?

>>127022485
>Mao Fujita follows up his 'acclaimed' debut album on Sony, the complete Mozart Piano Sonatas, with a similarly ambitious recording project, 'Preludes'; three complete sets of 24 preludes by Chopin, Scriabin, and 20th century Japanese composer Akio Yashiro. This album represents a fascinating exploration of three different but intricately connected worlds, each full of poetic diversity, volcanic energy and atmospheric stillness. Each of these three sets are in perfect symmetry with each other, each containing 24 short preludes, one for each major and minor key. But it is Chopin's preludes that form the axis around which these other two sets of preludes orbit. Chopin's Preludes, Op. 28 (1839) broke all expectations of the term 'prelude', elevating the form from small, often-improvised, introductory pieces to singular works in their own right, and in this Op. 28 set, presented as a spinning constellation of self-contained ideas and emotions, and some of the most enduring and loved piano pieces in the repertoire.Scriabin's Preludes, Op. 11 (1888-96) echo Chopin's set in so many ways - the number of preludes, the ordering of the keys, the concept of the prelude as a short, but significant work - but is certainly no copy, rather more a descendant, an extension, hyper expressive, each prelude an intricate miniature world of it's own. The third set of preludes is perhaps the most intriguing. A world premier recording of the 24 Preludes (1945) by Japanese composer Akio Yashiro. Taking Chopin's model even further, Yashiro creates a highly idiomatic and original work, written when only 15 years old. This is the most personal work on the album for Mao Fujita, with a relationship to the composer's widow, and presenting the work for the first time as a commercial studio recording.Or as Mao puts it, "the Chopin and the Scriabin are the fish and the rice, the base, but the Yashiro is the wasabi, just as vital, and that special kick to create something delicious."

It’s over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kguaGI7aZg

>>127022656
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>127022704
Go listen to the Goldberg variations again

>>127022704
NTA
I saw the title and assumed it was the Bach piece lol

>>127022656
I've felt for a long time that Bach's Prelude/Fugue (mostly the Fugue) in E Flat Major from the 3rd Clavier Ubung (preferably the Schoenberg orchestration) would have fit that scene perfectly instead of this campy pop trash. Anno is such a fucking pseud. Apparently he was considering using Borodin for the opening of the original TV series too.

>>127022716
thank you schizosister

>>127022755
Thank you, ESL-sister

>>127022857
Too baroque for me, I can't into it.

‘Kopf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN8yFDfYGSw

>>127023021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2hQBdq0ED4

Alkan. Feinberg. Ornstein.

>>127023040
This but Medtner instead of Alkan

>>127022716
>>127022793
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSdLAZ8tR08&list=OLAK5uy_kkNvPsP_it5NsuIbSRRHn4AQDsqYIeslE&index=1

>>127023138
>Medtner
Insufficiently jewish.

damn Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 16 sucks

>>127023264
ok Godowsky then

Rostropovich!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-RhE4HFLU&list=OLAK5uy_no0P7_hLarp8ucwuJfdERI9rfZu1JqxCU&index=1

>>127023040
>>127023264
You remind me of Ted Cruz.

>>127022363
I'd rather do both

>>127022440
I did and even I associate it with mountains and nature regardless
Mahler 9 is the space one

>>127022049
His second D.959

>>127022857
one of my favorite Bach pieces

>>127023906
That explains why his Schubert collection has so many multiples of the same piece. Thanks.

Vivaldi's Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZCfydWF48c

Reading Lolita to Chopin's Nocturnes

It goes on, it goes on: Time and space fail us even to make passing reference to the literary labors with which his busiest years were in great part occupied. A free thinker in matters religious, a democrat in matters political, of a surpassingly combative temperament, Wagner could scarcely fail to involve himself in the revolutionary agitations of 1848, in Dresden, where he held some minor musical appointment.

Minor!

In the light of Wagner's future, perhaps, but Kapellmeister to King Friedrich August II of Saxony was a post!

To those of us here in Dresden, a respected post. Irksome to have to visit the king in his castle at Pillnitz,a song in one's pocket, to have to make music in praise of one of those very princelings one's political soul cried out against. But that was the condition of Germany in the 19th century.

Insignificant city states.

And it was a post!

>>127024633
Why wasn’t this made into a film?

A friend of mine told me that if he was into classical music, which he isn't, he would never admit that because others would think he was pseud and a midwit.

>>127025103
Your friend sounds incredibly insecure.

That being said, I also rarely admit it. Not because I'm afraid of what people think of me, but because I often get completely moronic responses or stupid attempts at feigned interest. "Oh, I love classical! Chopin's Nocturne!"

Disgusting.

>>127024503
Reply twice if Mossad has hacked your account, brother

>>127025125
Yes, it's useless to discuss classical music with people who are unfamiliar with it. When people ask me what music I listen to and I tell them I listen to Mozart they usually give me this look of complete incomprehension.

>>127025169
Hogwash. I recently saw a camgirl listening to a Mozart playlist.

Everyone knows Mozart

>>127025178
So that person is not unfamilar with classical music.

>>127025195
99% of people are

Okay, I realize my mistake. When I say complete incomprehension, I don't mean to say they never heard of Mozart, I mean that they cannot possibly comprehend WHY I would listen to Mozart.

>>127025207
Have you tried explaining it to them? You may come across as a pretentious git.

>>127022012
That's just mutt cope.

Handel essential works?

>>127025400
Rinaldo
Giulio Cesare
Concerti Grossi op. 6
First eight Clavier Suites

>>127014078
Love Vasily Petrenko. Fantastic to see in person as well.

>>127025505
>Concerti
Ew. Gross.

>>127025582
why

>>127025400
Messiah (Handel’s magnum opus)
Water music
Music for the Royal Fireworks (HWV 351)
Harmonious blacksmith HWV 430
HWV 432
HWV 437
Coronation anthem
Salomon (Arrival of the Queen of Sheba)
Organ concertos, Op. 4, HWV 289–294
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoiXvQhWrKY

>>127025505
>Clavier Suites
>Handel

>>127025697
best or favorite recording for Messiah and Water Music?

>>127025666
Because... It's concerti GROSSi. Get it?

>>127025697
Also: Organ concertos, Op. 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLHSAVLYEnEoym44

>>127025730
?

>>127025745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-K3vwkVUCE

>>127025795
so Pinnock? what about Water Music?

>>127025745
King's College Choir Cambridge

>>127025745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_uKSwmn3Y

>>127025828
yeah someone already posted that

>>127025807
>Water Music
Marriner

if you listen to anything other than classical (not the classical period, i mean classical music in general) EVEN if you MOSTLY listen to classical you are not welcome here.

>>127025840
They are different videos. Hurwitz runs through most of the big names.

>>127025893
so Pinnock?

>>127025788
They are not known as ‘Clavier suites’.

so, Pincock?

is Touhou classical?

>>127025903
Pedantic much? Keyboard Suites then, or Suite de Pièces pour le clavecin.

>>127025937
i call them finger suites

>>127025908
>>127025899
Hurwitz is capricious, and you would be better off going through all the albums he lists to see which you like best.

>>127025937
Oh, sorry, sister, I forgot that only you are allowed to play the role of pedant here…

>>127025953
he's literally a schizo one time he said Liszt is trash then he recommends recordings for his works, fucking make up your mind.

>>127025978
In my experience, he has good taste, but I take his “greatest recordings ever” with a grain of salt.

>>127025978
He was literally trolling you sad retard. But Liszt IS trash, but he is still great, why can't he be both?

>>127026006
i see

>>127025968
Klavier and keyboard are obviously interchangable, you clueless dipshit

best Sonata for whistle?

>>127026017
>Klavierwerke
>Clavier Suites
You have exposed yourself as an ignoramus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdd8hOSVUbg

>>127026061
Suites FOR klavier. Are you really this fucking stupid? It seems almost impossible.

>>127025828
>>127025795
i bet this guy gets so much pussy

>>127026085
No one calls them “THE clavier suites”, except you.

die acht großen Suiten “the 8 great suites”

>>127026098
Around as much as you do!

>>127026098
He is gay

Does Hurwitz have a wife?

>>127026229
yeah, You.

It never crossed my mind that he was gay until someone here pointed it out. I need to get my gaydar checked.

>>127026139
>No one calls them “THE clavier suites”, except you

Sure mate, sure..

>>127026229
He has a boyfriend.

>>127026272
You called them “Clavier suites,” not “Klaviersuiten.” This is not correct in German or English. If you want to use German, you should write it like on that album. Your confusion likely arises from the fact that Bach has keyboard works known as “ Clavier suites” in English, while Handel does not. You are an ignoramus who speaks some bastardised English-German pidgin language.

>>127026266
I didn’t know Mahler wrote The Sound of Music.

Thoughts?

>>127026620
ew gay flag

>>127026620
Further proof that Wagner is underrated.

>>127026620
Overrated: Debussy
Underrated: Schumanm

But maybe we're all wrong, and this poll concluded the truth... who knows

>>127020395
Thanks

>>127026620
I like that Tchaik outplaced Mozart because it kinda decredits any kind of "popular opinion" on classical, lol.
Shost outplacing Mahler is also... interesting.

>>127026620
Confirms my opinion that Mahler is the favourite of the masses.

what does /mu/ think of Dave? i recently discovered his channel for myself, his
>heeeeelloooooo frieeeeeends
is stuck in my head now

>>127027000
>Mahler in the top 10
>Schoenberg 35th
>Reich
>Copland
>Bernstein
>Glass
>Gershwin

>>127026620
>Mahler in the top 10
>Schoenberg 35th
>Reich
>Copland
>Bernstein
>Glass
>Gershwin

>>127027249
Does it? Tchaikovsky was probably the greatest melodist of all time (Mozart is not far behind though). Melody is not something you can analyze as well as the form, but it sure does speak about the composer's inherent talent and musical skill.
>>127027301
He can be entertaining, at times interesting, but he can be grumpy and dogmatic just as well. I like his channel.

>>127027439
>Tchaikovsky was probably the greatest melodist of all time (Mozart is not far behind though).

>>127027354
Agreed, Schoenberg should be much higher.

>>127027553
Thanks for your input, Cruz-missile sister

>>127027553
LOL
>>127027606
>Cruz-missile sister
What?

Sorry for always posting Bernstein, but his Faust Symphony by Liszt is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le8BdI8C-_E

>>127028201
>eternal feminine.png

anyone have thoughts on the conductor Michael Sanderling?

>>127028201
don't worry, no one did that symphony better

>>127027990
aw, which one?

>>127014560
If anyone is curious, this is *the* definitive recording of the 4th.

>Listening to a recording
>someone is always coughing
Why?

>>127028365
Which is why you should, more often than not, opt for studio recordings. If you go for live, then that's simply the cost of doing business.

>>127028365
That's not a studio recording, but a l*ve performance.

Did the Wagner autist get banned?

>>127028365
the coughing is kino and adds to the performance by making you feel like you were really there watching your composer in person in a grand hall

>>127027301
He's silly but he does know a lot. The recordings that he does recommend are always worth it, in my experience

Did anyone take music in high school? What were your experiences? The IB programme for music seems better than local, state-based education certificates.

Guten Morgen, Sirs.
What are your favorite Bach organ pieces?

https://youtu.be/GwzQLq1jsU0?

>>127028722
Schmucke dich o liebe Seele

>>127028722
Bach’s “Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBXZ__LN_M

now playing

start of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 in E Minor, Op. 11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dogTbiTDRxY&list=OLAK5uy_l7e583MqYElE0cOgO2-WlnWA-uAWMqHBE&index=2

start of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 2 in F Minor, Op. 21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3jJiTk54nE&list=OLAK5uy_l7e583MqYElE0cOgO2-WlnWA-uAWMqHBE&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l7e583MqYElE0cOgO2-WlnWA-uAWMqHBE

Also added Yundi's recording of Chopin's Nocturnes. Hopefully all of these live up to the steep hype and acclaim.

>Das Rheingold WWV 86A - Vorspiel
>Solti and Vienna Philharmonic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EucdXGHAwXM
Does it get any better?

>>127028852
>Does it get any better?
What about Bruckner and Mahler

>>127028722
BWV 548 and 552

Brandenburg Concerto No. 3

>>127028852
It really is foreplay with no climax. Brucker actually goes somewhere.

>>127030531
*Bruckner

>>127030531
This is a common critique of the kind of music I like. Do people really need finales and climactic cacophony par excellence?

>>127030593
>Do people really need finales and climactic cacophony par excellence?
Plenty of people like Wagner so apparently not.

>>127027000
wagner was a god that deserves #0 slot and always forever will
germant won ;_;

>>127030680
Shut this down

>>127030713
well nietzsche was sadge and a manlet, he wrote some ok stuff tho
yitler tried very hard despite being retarded

>>127028582
>Did anyone take music in high school? What were your experiences? The IB programme for music seems better than local, state-based education certificates.
deletion of knowledge
dealing with theater fags
getting gatekept in college because of more dykes
just sit at a piano or guitar instead

>>127030789
What would Wagner do if he was isekai'd into 2025 and had to deal with uni dykes?

>>127030713
what did that funny mustache guy compose?

>>127031078
Hitler wrote an opera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieland_der_Schmied_(Hitler)

>>127028852
Siegfrieds Rheinfart
RoundFuck Orchester

>>127031078
hitler had better taste than nietzsche desu
he was probably a decent musician inside, but he was very lazy a lot of the time

Since this thread has quite a bit of Shostakovich discussion, I figured I'd go ahead and post this:
https://litter.catbox.moe/pxwbt6785axqhss2.zip
Stokowski's live performance of Shostakovich's 10th from 1966. It was the only time Stokowski ever conducted the piece, and it was previously only available to CSO subscribers/insiders as part of it being self-issued by the orchestra and its committee.

Of course, it has the usual Stokowski-isms of fucking around with the score a bit, but it's an incredibly exciting performance. Excellent stereo sound - during this period Chicago had one of the best in-house recording setups of any orchestra.

>>127031370
ty as always

>>127014037
you may suffer mild to severe spiritual consequences depending on the genre and artist

>>127014037
Formally simplistic and creatively shallow music prevents you from thinking in complex and creatively deep ways; read Adorno for more information.

>>127031572
>read Adorno
Dont google his pic in swimming gear though

>>127031572
It most certainly does nothing of the sort.
First of all it depends on your level of intentional noetic engagement with the material. You can have Bach playing in the background your entire life and you'll never derive any cognitive benefits from its intricacy if you don't engage in close listening.
On the other hand, Glass or Cage are arguably very formally simplistic, and perhaps not very creative in terms of the pure musical content, but the radically novel approach to composition as such, can, in itself, foster and stimulate creative thinking by virtue of the very exposure to a core break with previous tradition and a drastic shift in perspective towards the function and form of music as a medium.

>>127013981 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBNDnrS8HY
Maybe around once a year I remember that this piece exists and I listen to it, and I get scared of one day knowing what such a loss feels like.

petzold

>>127032138
>but the radically novel approach to composition as such, can, in itself, foster and stimulate creative thinking by virtue of the very exposure to a core break with previous tradition and a drastic shift in perspective towards the function and form of music as a medium.
Precisely one of the things Adorno was getting at, yes. Artistic innovation inspires political and life innovation.

Adorno falls into the typical barbarism of assimilationists in believing that art exists to make you a better person and society more advanced.

new
>>127032529
>>127032529
>>127032529