Fauré edition
https://youtu.be/SOazIUdrmvI
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.
>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://rentry.org/classicalgen
Previous:
>>127032529
First for Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbl5SBepVo
now playing
start of Mendelssohn: String Quartet No. 1 in E-Flat Major, Op. 12, MWV R25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dDrLhJh35g&list=OLAK5uy_lWevQAAD3BEHJZb-QZb1CrXamug_S8IC4&index=2
start of Mendelssohn: String Quartet in E-Flat Major, MWV R18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTCgbvYmHOw&list=OLAK5uy_lWevQAAD3BEHJZb-QZb1CrXamug_S8IC4&index=6
start of Mendelssohn: String Quartet No. 4 in E Minor, Op. 44 No. 2, MWV R26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNCLWJndxQY&list=OLAK5uy_lWevQAAD3BEHJZb-QZb1CrXamug_S8IC4&index=9
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lWevQAAD3BEHJZb-QZb1CrXamug_S8IC4
>>127059145My favorite Christian composer after Bach
anyone familiar with Godowsky's solo piano music? Worth checking out?
>>127059145The one guy with the bowtie...
>>127059042 (OP)>FauréOccitans invented Western music, didn't they? Can't believe Simon de Montfort wanted to wipe them all out.
>>127059171i never got super into godowsky but one of his most esteemed solo piano works is the Java Suite, which is absolutely worth a listen c:
Wagner
md5: 9d64affb60a74469c4bc52f47a3259d2
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>>127059042 (OP)Wallpaper made from an old opera poster.
>>127059170Bach was an atheist
>>127059170This is appeal to emotion and not an argument. There's no need to pretend. There is great art, produced by geniuses who are characterized by extraordinarily high intelligence and very specific personality traits (such as conscientiousness, which typically is in positive correlation with general intelligence, but is low in geniuses) necessary to revolutionize and make exceptional art. Most composers were atheists. But atheism was frowned upon in 17th century and pretty much throughout the entire history, so those who expressed atheistic views were either either ignored or executed. In short, you had to keep your mouth shut and pretend you were part of the herd. Furthermore, I'd also argue and die on the hill that Democritus, Leucippus and even Epicurus were all atheist. Protagoras was technically agnostic (like Epicurus, in some sense), but that can be translated to "atheist but not informed enough". Furthermore, atheism existed in Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. These topics can be explored and studied in Edward Dutton's books. I gave you the redpill, you're giving me the same cliche every pop slop faggot does. You have a poor understanding of how IQ tests actually work. IQ tests correlate with Spearman's g factor. It measures the g factor, although it is not a perfect measurer of it. And g factor is the best measurer of general intelligence we have. In fact, g factor itself uses musical abilities among other cognitive abilities to measure intelligence, and although it is not as strongly correlated to intelligence as maths, there is a considerable correlation. Actually, quick glance at Dutton's book and I found a source showing correlation between general intelligence and musical preference, that should really end the argument right here. I really don't care, not reading your pseudo historical slop further as it's making me nauseous. March onwards to psych ward you useless shit stain. Go argue with ChatGPT, it's more in line with your takes.
>>127059528Why do you need Bach to be an atheist?
>>127059534Atheism was tolerated in the Netherlands in Bach’s day. Bach could have moved to the Netherlands if he had felt strongly about Christianity. Instead, he chose to spend his life in Saxony and Thuringia in service to the German church.
The problem is that you are a bigot who can’t tolerate people with a different perspective from your own, or that people who you despise should have produced great men.
Of Beethoven's thirty-two(32) piano sonatas, how many would you say are masterpieces?
>>127059534The Germans are a deeply honest people.
If Bach were an atheist, he would have blurted it out. Yet there is no record of such an event occurring…
>>127059534So Bach was a liar?
>>127059778At least 5-10 absolutely are
>Hammerklavier>31st>Waldstein>Appassionata>30th
>>127059934I tried getting a huge music nerd friend into classical by getting them to listen to Waldstein and they said while it was good, it was too repetitive. Sigh.
>>127060148Lol. Then introduce him to the late sonatas
>>127060184They haven't hung out with me since. I think I said something they took as derogatory towards... let's say, sisters, because they are one. Oh well.
I've been left on delivered for 2 hours and I want to kms
Classical music for this feel? No romantic piano slop please
>>127060191>let's say, sisters, because they are one.Did you reallu call someone a sister IRL?
>>127060220https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V4-Z3fksjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXtXLAVgkE
>>127060220https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y44JnN-tJgY
>>127060229No, I just thought it'd be a good replacement instead of saying "trans" here.
>>127060220https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2az8ch_EIU
>>127060243So you had a tranny friend? Good riddance, anon.
>>127060250Living in Portland, it comes with the territory. Plus we were good friends in High School before they showed any hint.
finished listening to and ended up souring on the Levit set, good riddance, never have to listen to that again. decided to go through Scherbakov's Beethoven piano sonatas set now. I've been a fan of his since his wonderful Shostakovich 24 Preludes and Fugues recording, among some other things. Liking it so far. His approach is on the sensitive, expressive side while maintaining some classical restraint without descending into full mawkishness like, say, Barenboim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD51u2PrpEM&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=77
Definitely not heroic or fiery Beethoven, which is exactly what I'm looking for right now.
>>127060258Now I'm curious, how did you offend him? Was it because of different musical tastes?
>>127060258>>127060250>>127060243>>127060220>>127060191>>127060148not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/lgbt/ instead?
>>127060301Calm down retard.
>>127060296No idea. I thought we had a nice hangout, so I can only theorize since they've been giving me excuses as to why we can't hangout ever since. Maybe the thing about how I didn't understand why [deleted].
>>127060301Point taken. Back to music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUZfOkqr2nA
Karajan and his sense of humour
>>127060370A regular class-clown, the K-man
>>127060370I didn't understand his humor but I smiled
>>127060478Kempff has better consistency, but Backhaus' heights are the peak of all piano performance. His Beethoven Op. 111... what sublimity. But to someone unfamiliar with either and choosing between their Beethoven cycles, I'd recommend Kempff.
i have a Jewish friend even though i am anti-semitic, Classical for this feel?
>>127060562Karajan conducting Mendelssohn
>>127060562Bernstein conducting Wagner
Rostropovich's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZJ4iMkHbw&list=OLAK5uy_kv8--oGFP9zVe7a7MLfuTOne4VbP-4h5w&index=8
now playing, got recommended this set so let's try it
start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 1 in F Major, Op. 18 No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5cuuVo-Wk&list=OLAK5uy_mKFRg3EsBnWhsKwSFp_d_CjKgZtSTGmVI&index=2
start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 4 in C Minor, Op. 18 No. 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzwk54CdB1I&list=OLAK5uy_mKFRg3EsBnWhsKwSFp_d_CjKgZtSTGmVI&index=6
start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 6 in B-Flat Major, Op. 18 No. 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0_FPoJgV0&list=OLAK5uy_mKFRg3EsBnWhsKwSFp_d_CjKgZtSTGmVI&index=9
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mKFRg3EsBnWhsKwSFp_d_CjKgZtSTGmVI
>The New York Times hailed them as "one of the most impressive of the new generation of string quartets," and has described their Beethoven performances as "organic... riveting... engrossing... brilliant."
Oh no, I have become a hiss sister...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lH6H4ksPnc
It is true that older pianists were leagues better in technique, but I still have strong preference of modern recordings where I can hear full harmonic spectrum of the piano
>>127060764Not to be rude but it sounds like it's being performed on a kid's toy.
>browsing news while listening to classical
>read: Navalny's widow leads calls for Italy to cancel concert by Pro-Putin conductor
gee, I wonder who that could be referring to. It'd be Gergiev's first performance outside of Russia since the (unjust) invasion of Ukraine.
>>127060770Listen to the 4th ballade, how he brings out the inner voices and makes the piece sound polyphonic just by voicing. Modern pianists don't do this
>>127060796Fair enough. Is it really better though?
>>127061181In some parts it is absolutely better, see 1:00:26, the beautiful descending alto melody or the inner melody here 1:04:25 - 27, and especially the part around 1:04:48 sounds like Bachian polyphony in style of Chopin, all the melodies freed from accompaniments by proper voicing. There's also great deal of tasteful rubato there. But what I loathe is what comes right after that last bit 1:05:07 till coda (which is a bit whacky too) is just noise to me.
I wish there were modern interpreters who combined Zimerman's technique with older, Hofmann and Cortot -like techniques.
>>127061283>...is just noise to me.For the record, I think this is mostly because of the recording quality not necessarily the interpreter.
>>127059354>OccitanShit meme, fake an invented.
t. from a small village in southern France
>>127061283You've tried that many modern recordings and none of them fit the fill?
>>127061577I haven't heard that much polyphony in modern recordings yeah, have you?
>>127061759>>127061759Have you tried Jonathan Plowright? (yes it's his actual name) I don't think he ever recorded chopin but he has some very good brahms and possibly the best recording of Paderewski's piano sonata
>>127062212Nop. I'll check out his Brahms
Give me some music to listen to while playing KSP.
My favourite piece is Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 and I have yet to find anything that matches the emotions I get from listening to this piece.
>>127062922Have you considered the rest of the Hungarian Rhapsodies? Or the rest of Liszt's music?
>>127062922Chopin > Liszt
Listen to Liszt's B minor sonata if you haven't already
What's the best recording of Bach's Arias?
>>127059042 (OP)Listening to Swept Away: Concerto for Violin and Chamber Orchestra (2023) by Alyssa Wang.
I listened to it live, with composer conducting. It was way better than the recording, but unfortunately I cannot find anything better.
This concerto is on the topic of the death (specifically for her - father), with the first part being about the process of dying, second part was about grief, and the third and final part about continuing living with a death of someone close to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9C0DBVr_k
>>127065098/classical/ isn’t your personal Hurwitz, anon
>>127065431> This concerto is on the topic of the death (specifically for her - father), with the first part being about the process of dying, second part was about grief, and the third and final part about continuing living with a death of someone close to youWhy can’t the left make vivifying art?
>>127059354>Musician’s understanding of the politics of medieval France
THIS IS MEDIEVAL MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YSCgKsvUeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDTK6vLhzd4
THIS IS RENAISSANCE MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdqoLEyFG-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gVapS7XeAM
THIS IS MANNERISTIC MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnTjhQkgCD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7QJr2xsVyM
THIS IS BAROQUE MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tCzmyy2Cc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=773F18XhaTo
THIS IS ROCCOCO MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jio1HP94R8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGfaoiHL6i4
THIS IS ILLUSTRISTIC MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1-TrAvp_xs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbf1LVE4UKM
THIS IS ROMANTICISTIC MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4ImL0Rblk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891JUSQplzU
THIS IS MODERNISTIC MUSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnXTHUU4ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ2Hz53wzuA
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS «CLASSICAL MUSIC».
>>127065691https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx-RUBQxMQ
>>127065978CLASSICAL refers to the standard set of instruments (orchestra), rather than a specific style. Although of course there's a classical period in music.
>>127066002IN EVERY ONE OF THE MUSICAL PERIODS LISTED IN MY POST, THE STANDARD INSTRUMENTAL ARRANGEMENT WAS DIFFERENT.
>>127065978>There is no such thing as "name"!>There is only "8 names"!
>>127065978not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>127061446Where in Occitània? I’m guessing Provence since they hate being called Occitan for some reason.
>>127066002>CLASSICAL refers to the standard set of instrumentsNo. It refers to the musical tradition which started with medieval music, which is preserved in scores, extensively studied and performed by classically trained musicians.
And yes, it borrows its name from the classical era, which was the height (Beethoven) of any human musical endeavour.
>>127065978False.
Brahms' violin concerto is so comfy and epic at the same time. I need moar recordings. Heard the big names already, what are some great recordings by 19th century violinists, with tasteful bel canto and all
>>127060289>ended up souring on the Levit setHow come?
Brahms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbww8l79mKA
Huberman, 1944, let's see how it compares to modern interpretations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKmMplYZnbQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrfrlaNI-5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMar_7AGLrA&list=RDDMar_7AGLrA&start_radio=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfuoY90jMek
>>127066271>>127066277Thanks! How do you search for these older recordings?
>>127066287by violinist or by specialised label: biddulph, naxos historical, Music & Arts of America, Preiser, Marston, etc
Vivaldi essential works?
Clementi essential works?
>>127065978My point was that 4channers have a tendency to condense history into caricature. I call this tendency the ‘weebification’ of history.
IMG_6992
md5: e3ab9db37ab989efe59db026cd498032
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To wit
>>127066549>4channershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music
Did 4channers write this article? Touch grass, retard.
>>127066620Sorry, I assumed you were his an0n
>>127059354
Yes, de Monfort just didn’t care for Occitans, and the politicking of the Catholic Church and the French king had nothing to do with it…(SARCASM)
>>127066645??
And I assumed you were replying to your own post. I guess we're both confused
>>127066743There are only 3 people who post in this general
IMG_6993
md5: 47b585897547ca7e79d057ec26b28edb
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>>127065993not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/lgbt/ instead?
>>127066763There's probably less than 10 which is still sad.
>>127066811Shermanposting is an excellent case study for the weebification of history.
>>127065978Hello Mr Hurwitz. No, the Beatles do not count as classical music.
hurwitz
md5: 1d4cffb0dcb1d8861f65be2cec8ec464
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>THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS «CLASSICAL MUSIC».
>>127066811Sorry, got the boards mixed up. Based on the post quality, I thought I was already there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSSHlWTRflk
Mendelssohn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfC0IRqe5bw
>>127067200‘The Jeremy Clarkson of classical music’
>>127066589ew that bitch on the left is ugly, the right is much cuter.
>>127060764That Waldstein sonata from that recital is simply on another planet from just about any other recording I've heard of the piece. The sound quality is so garbage, but holy shit the performance. Really one of those cases where the meme about old performers being leagues above new ones is actually true.
>>127067844This. I'd never heard a Waldstein like that before.
Opinions on Gliere's Ilya Muromets?
>>127066195I can't quite put my finger on the why because I really wanted to like it, all I know is when listening my ears would so often tell my brain "not feeling this, change this to something else" which is not something one should ever feel when listening to Beethoven's piano sonatas. There was the occasional movement of brilliance, no doubt, and his approach was unique, but yeah, simply put, it didn't sound good, didn't work for me, wasn't the Beethoven I'm into.
Wagner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ssR4T4MeDI
I wonder if I could be friends with the kind of person who'd enjoy Schiff's Bach. Not because of their liking Schiff, but because of the kind of person they'd need to be.
>>127068844>the kind of person they'd need to be.Which is what? Besides having poor taste obviously.
watching a show and character says...
>>127068918Boring, stiff, parsimonious, fastidious, bland, vanilla
probably does the numbers for an insurance firm
watching a show and character says...
>>127068918>>127068933oh and they're probably a snitch too
favorite recording(s) of Chopin's Preludes?
>>127068962It is your duty to snitch on criminals.
Bach
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=B43rvdIrn7o&si=Sq7YcxLolpoJUAFu
>>127068936He means it gets you pussy.
>>127069266It was in the context of being a presidential candidate. Which explains why whenever I've looked up the favorite music of several of the last US Presidents, none of them have expressed any like for classical music; aka, they were faking to not look wimpy for the electorate.
>>127069225I tend to go for Arrau, Sofronotsky, Moravec, Cortot. Sometimes Argerich if I just want to hear someone tear into it.
>>127069356The context is irrelevant. The statement is true when you use my interpretation.
best recordings of Bach's solo keyboard work?
>>127069406depends on the piece
but if you want a one-stop shop, then Angela Hewitt is fine
>>127069410this one? also how are her Bach concertos?
>>127069406The recording quality makes little difference if you are listening to the structure of the music rather than for the auditory sensorial experience and associated dopamine. So, if you are not a gooner, any recording will suffice.
>>127069459>recording qualityi'm not talking about the sound quality, i mean the "best" or a highly regarded recorded performance.
>>127069438yeah
and great
>>127069459I rolled my eyes irl at your post
>>127069438>>127069476Also I just wanna make it clear none of my personal favorite recordings of any of the pieces are Hewitt, though she would rank highly on some. I'm only suggesting her for a general collection of the works. On that level, hers is great, and if I ended up on a desert island only with Hewitt's Bach to listen to, I wouldn't be dismayed.
>>127069471Why do you care so much about what other people think? You strike me as a conformist.
>>127069476Have you tried a kpop thread, lil sis?
>>127069494that's fine, i'm still exploring Bach's Keyboard works, so if i really like a specific piece i'll search out to find a recording that i personally like
>>127069512i just want a good starting point, a good box set where all or most of the performances are good enough, then i can go from there.
>>127069512They aren't asking what others think is the best so they can automatically agree, but because there's so many recordings of classical pieces, without some kind of guidance, it's impossible to know if you're starting off at a good spot. Stop being cringe and trolling.
>Have you tried a kpop thread, lil sis?Why would I want to run into you more often than I have to?
>>127069528>i just want a good starting point, a good box set where all or most of the performances are good enough, then i can go from there.It doesn’t matter unless you are a sensualist gooner.
>>127069529> Why would I want to run into you more often than I have to?Well you rolled your eyes at me so I assumed you were a teenage girl…
>>127069580>Well you rolled your eyes at me so I assumed you were a teenage girl…The point was it was something I never, ever do, yet somehow your post managed to provoke that reaction from me. Congrats.
>>127069601>Tells me they rolled their eyes>Claims to never ever roll eyes Oh, I didn’t realize it was your first time
>>127069614You're special.
Händel
Forgot this gem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waTzBd5lTHQ
what's your favorite recording of Chopin Nocturne in C minor, Op. 48 No.1?
https://youtu.be/o5K3Aea-s0k?si=92X4spCjH0mOWByl
>>127070809Arrau's is great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GCUvYuB5gY
>>127070809https://youtu.be/h_vZtpjNKVE?si=K1mcH4-iSc2mNUQs
>>127070823is there anything Arrau CAN'T play extremely well?
>>127070809https://youtu.be/107Iwx5RKSM?si=tQ4f7BzCnnYc4CRf
>>127069958That falls under coronation anthem, lil bro
now playing
start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 25 in C Major, K. 503
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FkDOSOaa_I&list=OLAK5uy_nMZM7DldUT9IUYbYzMImzrckl2_pAWUJs&index=2
start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 26 in D Major, K. 537 "Coronation"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjohVFuCcLU&list=OLAK5uy_nMZM7DldUT9IUYbYzMImzrckl2_pAWUJs&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nMZM7DldUT9IUYbYzMImzrckl2_pAWUJs
IMG_4678
md5: 830ffeb080d41a4d2de239f276e16860
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https://music.apple.com/au/album/philip-glass-einstein-on-the-beach/637056287?l=en-GB
>>127072003oooh, that's where the name Kafka on the Shore comes from
>Paul McCartney has an oratorio, apparently
wtf? is it any good? if yes, are there any other rock/pop musicians who have successfully branched out into classical forms?
>>127072099Not quite what you're looking for, but Spiritualized/Jason Piece is kinda choral+gospel+space rock. The influences from sacred music is stark.
>>127059474that's awesome, got any more of this kind of stuff? Mucha's posters for Strauss' operas would make for great posters
>>127059934Good start, then adding No. 32 and Les Adieux for sure, maybe Pastorale and Tempest and The Hunt and No. 28. Pathetique and Moonlight and No. 27? Perhaps.
essential works for the Czech gang? I've heard Dvorak's Slavonic Dances and 9th Symphony, loved both
>>127072170Listen to Janacek's Glagolitic Mass, both String Quartets, Sinfonietta, and In The Mists.
>>127072170At minimum, all of their works which appear on this page:
https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/compilation-of-the-tc-top-recommended-lists.17996/
ctrl+f the composer, of course
>>127060289getting to the middle of the cycle now if anyone wants to try
No. 11, Op. 22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856HUJkOq6w&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=37
No. 12, Op. 26 "Funeral March"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYzJTn55BDI&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=41
No. 13, Op. 27 No. 1 "Quasi una fantasia"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhzAi13KiBA&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=45
No. 14, Op. 27 No. 2 "Moonlight"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz30D7-lV6w&list=OLAK5uy_nnGkkuJ4lQTqShj3fWwz8RjEOICSW9RF0&index=48
>>127066195>>127068625Or to put another way, there was simply a fundamental disagreement with how he interpreted and performed some of the pieces which resulted in them becoming, to my ears and sensibility, lifeless and stilted and drab.
Wim Winters bros....
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GUlUbtzZ3B4
Our defense?
>>127072003>Phillip Glass I bet Epstein listened to that on his island…
>>127072605He doesn’t deny musicians sped up.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZT25GlVWNbg
>>127072731they all simultaneously, across the board, sped up -- conveniently right as audio recording was introduced, and none of them mentioned this in their writings!
>>127072742The Industrial Revolution.
>>127072788Think about it.
>>127066458It looks like a collection of PS1 demos
>>127066458It doesn't really deserve to be called Scriabin when he wrote maybe 1% of it
>>127072731>>127072742sRT(simple reaction times) have been measured since 1880s and it appers that it has significantly decreased since the. 19th century. And through other proxies we know it reached peak in 19th century, this is why they were playing the music so fast and effectively
>>127073400>and it appers that it has significantly decreased since the. 19th Has spelling decreased since the 19th century as well
>>127073400Also I may be a complete layman, but my suspicion is those studies from the late 19th and early 20th centuries had worse methodology and smaller sample sizes than modern studies
>>127073613Those methods have been shown to be perfectly adequate for the job, and research has been published in leading psychology journals (which have been replicated since). The decline has also been observed in another study, with sample of more than 7000 people, which found that sRT had slowed by between 3 and 16 milliseconds between 1959 and 1985.
And as I said, there are other proxies (backwards digit span, colour discrimination, use of high difficulty words), and it aligns perfectly with the overall decline. The evidence is overwhelming. And yet another evidence might be the video anon posted, I might look into that
All music comes from the voice. Human singing is the basis for almost everything. Double beat fanatics cannot overcome the simple fact that sung music falls apart with their moronic theory. Beethoven didn't leave us metronome markings for the Missa Solemnis but we do understand his general preferences for tempo from the works that he did leave us markings for. Simply put, there are many stately moments in the Missa Solemnis which are slow enough as is, and to interpret it through the lens of the double beat simply brings one to the point of breathlessness. You cannot reconcile this theory with vocal music. Are we supposed to believe that Don Giovanni took upwards of 4.5 hours? It's stupid and nonsensical.
>>127073741>overall decline...of cognitive abilities*.
>>127073748It falls apart when you listen to this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jzx-bw6nBqo&pp=ygUWd2ltIHdpbnRlcnMgcGF0aGV0aXF1ZQ%3D%3D
https://youtu.be/HHjAFTJS-_4?t=889
/classical/: The Album
>>127073797Yes, but the arguments that double beaters often use is "Beethoven's metronome markings are impossible to play, and therefore he could not have intended for it to be played at that speed."
Obviously this sounds like dogshit but coming at it from another angle, it's even more impossible to sing Beethoven's choral works through the lens of the double beat than it is to play the Hammerklavier at its intended tempo.
>>127073821Holiday Harpsichords for violently hallucinating schizophrenics
chops
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>It is apparent that Chopin's contemporaries were incapable of remaining on the level of material reality when speaking of him.
How did he spellbind everyone bros
>>127074201>>127074222Chopin saved humanity.
>>127073828In practice a lot of 19th century pieces are played at around 0.75x the metronome marking, so somewhere between "double" and "single" beat.
>>127072429Yes. I agree, stilted and drab.
>>127074436Kinda. Really depends on the performer and repertoire. Beethoven's metronome markings weren't taken seriously for a long time, but it's hard to find a performance of the symphonies that isn't at least 90% of the way there these days.
>>127075748<<</classical/
>>127074715This is the high IQ general, anon.
>>127072429>"Moonlight"He didn't call it that thoughbeit, people only started referring to it as Moonlight after an association with a painting of a boat on a swiss lake with the light of the full Moon reflecting from its surface on a night.
In 1848 Chopin visited Scotland staying at Johnstone Castle and he wrote to his friend
"The weather has changed, and it is dreadful outside. I am feeling sick and depressed, and everyone wears me down with their excessive attentions"
As an added bonus his carriage crashed into a tree
>>127076524Kek good one anon
now playing
start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major, Op. 58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kItQ2HISGqc&list=OLAK5uy_m3IkVWAb8LJD80ipPg1xWCYDfiIQWoLrI&index=11
start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 73 "Emperor"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHfjfc2qgfo&list=OLAK5uy_m3IkVWAb8LJD80ipPg1xWCYDfiIQWoLrI&index=13
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m3IkVWAb8LJD80ipPg1xWCYDfiIQWoLrI
Sir Colin Davis is, all at once, a good, great, transcendent, and mediocre conductor. He is capable of it all in high measure without qualification. Truly impressive.
>>127076599I just go with what's on the label of the link/recording. But good to know, thank you.
>>127076599>>127077164Does that really matter? The title is inseparable from that piece at this point. 'Moonlight Sonata' sounds pretty cool
>>127077345It does. "Quasi una fantasia" doesn't sound that good, the name "moonlight" contributed much to the fact that it became one of his most known works.
>>127077345Only the first movement feels like a "Moonlight Sonata" imo
>>127077425>contributed much to the fact that it became one of his most known works.No. It was popular back even during Beethoven's day
>The movement was very popular in Beethoven's day, to the point of exasperating the composer himself, who remarked to Czerny, "Surely I've written better things".It's popular because it's relatively simple, emotional, easy to follow and just good.
>>127077437Only the finale of 9th feels like "Choral" but oh well. That's how the titles work.
new fugue(hetta), rate & hate
https://vocaroo.com/1nOQtg0GtGw2
>>127077345yes it does matter. it contributes to this modern notion that music must be "about" something and can't simply be music first and last.
>>127077989Beethoven himself disagrees. See symphony no.6.
That said, I also prefer music without title or text.
>>127077720>>The movement was very popular in Beethoven's day, to the point of exasperating the composer himself, who remarked to Czerny, "Surely I've written better things".kek
I always have a weird feeling when listening to it because I'm left thinking, "this is it?" for the first movement.
>>127078018I was obsessed with it for a long time before I truly got into classical, and I still love it. But it can be underwhelming comapred to his late works
>>127077720>>127078018Imagine how exasperated he'd be once he knew how popular "Fur Elise" would come to be.
>>127078119I behave as if that one doesn't exist.
transport me to the universe where Debussy and Ravel wrote multiple string quartets
>>127073400There are two mutually exclusive groups of people in this world: Intelligent people and people who fall for Wim’s trolling.
>>127059042 (OP)>Alexa, play compositions by Faure>Certainly! I hope you like Pavane as much as I do!god dammit Alexa
>>127073828Musicians are lamebrains who can’t read a pendulum
>>127077768I like 0.17-0.30.
Chopin
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>I don't know how it is, but the Germans are amazed at me and I am amazed at them for finding anything to be amazed about.
>England is so surrounded by the boredom of conventionalities, that it is all one to them whether music is good or bad, since they have to hear it from morning till night. For here they have flower-shows with music, dinners with music, sales with music...
>Among the numerous pleasures of Vienna the hotel evenings are famous. During supper Strauss or Lanner play waltzes...After every waltz they get huge applause; and if they play a Quodlibet, or jumble of opera, song and dance, the hearers are so overjoyed that they don't know what to do with themselves. It shows the corrupt taste of the Viennese public.
IMG_4692
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Does anyone like postmodern classical?
IMG_4693
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https://music.apple.com/au/album/evrim-demirel-orchestral-works/1745655238?l=en-GB
>>127079346I like Berio's Sinfonia, and that's about it.
>>127079406o_o
You enjoy this?
![71RlYVJ86nL._SL1200_[1]](/thumb/mu/1752805658636633.jpg)
now playing, more of Uchida's Beethoven
start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major, Op. 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJDiPUdwQzQ&list=OLAK5uy_mB0rA2WDsQSYq4czp5F4cRrLeQvNtEAuE&index=2
start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 29 in B-Flat Major, Op. 106 "Hammerklavier"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWzIttpuLLo&list=OLAK5uy_mB0rA2WDsQSYq4czp5F4cRrLeQvNtEAuE&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mB0rA2WDsQSYq4czp5F4cRrLeQvNtEAuE
>Here Mitsuko Uchida attempts the Mount Everest of piano sonatas, Beethoven's "Hammerklavier," a work of supreme power and complex structure. She offers a thrillingly virile performance, wanting neither in power nor accuracy. The first movement is a blaze of sound, a tiny pause after the initial statement of chords most welcome, with the bizarre rhythms intact and the harmonies sharp-edged. If the lengthy Adagio is missing some of its leaden hopelessness, it makes up for it in sheer darkness, and the violent flow of sound needed for the finale is clear and potent. Throughout, gentler passages are not overlooked, but daintiness never enters into the performance. Her reading of Opus 101 is just as fine. She misses none of the warmth of the opening movement; the sharp-edged March of the second movement is in strict time without ever becoming menacing; the fugal finale almost as impressive as that of the "Hammerklavier." This is a superlative achievement. --Robert Levine
>>127079428I’m a big postmodernist in terms of the art I like
All my favourite novels are by Thomas Pynchon or Don DeLillo
Just listened to Brahms' fifth Hungarian Dance. And I have to say, the B section could not have been more dull and lacking in inspiration. This is the problem with Brahms, every time he has something good, five second later he'll just ruin it with some generic dependence on 'the tradition'. I'm always finding myself disliking 'this' or 'that' little bit in his music, and as such I can never appreciate the whole.
>>127079545Most PoMo literature is still narratively straightforward with human themes, and those guys were stellar prose stylists. I don't know, I love Pynchon and DeLillo and Gaddis and Burroughs and Vollman and Auster, etc etc. too, but post-war/postmodern classical... can't do it. I'm glad and somewhat impressed you do though. Is it more of a conceptual thing or do you genuinely outright like how it sounds?
>>127079406Also, if someone doesn't have Apple Music they can't really listen through this link, but fortunately it's on YouTube/YouTube Music too so I was able to check it out.
>>127075019>but it's hard to find a performance of the symphonies that isn't at least 90% of the way there these days.And that's why great conducting doesn't exist anymore.
>>127079592I listen to ambient jazz that has one note every ten seconds so I think I’m just wired different
I like atmosphere just as much as structure
>>127079603I’ll use YouTube links from now on. Thanks.
IMG_4700
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The way forward for classical composition is:
Choose random bars from Bach, preferably those with juicer themes and sequences, and/or intense harmonic activity, and develop them into a romantic piece in the style of tchaikovsky, chopin, or brahms. You can even use RNG.
That's it, that's all we need. That's what I would do if I became a composer.
>>127076960>>127072499>>127079441She isn’t going to fuck you, lil bro
MVP hours in /classical/
time to post Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bV7addaEkI
>>127080775Real nigga hours, Unc
>>127079730I am convinced by Beethoven's metronome markings. I generally think his music should be played on the fast side. That being said, I'm also not really a fan of the way it's played these days, less for tempo reasons and more for reasons of balance, dynamics, and flexibility. The best recordings of Beethoven that adhere to the metronome markings are usually the early ones, when it was still fresh and new, and the conductors were still drenched in tradition and had balls.
>>127081312Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C23L4pDHJCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5GcmHqlTZ0
>>127080775Shota choir Bach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFvZi6HSV7I
>>127079882Fair enough. Always nice to have more variety here. I think most of the other post-war classical fans have left by this point however. We'll see.
i have the Chopin Edition DG set, the Rubinstein set, the Arrau set, the Ashkenazy set, the Zimerman Ballades / Barcarolle / Fantaisie CD, 2 Sofronitsky CDs, the Moravec Preludes, the Yunchan Lim Etudes, is there any other sets or recordings i am missing?
>>127082486Peep recordings by Nelson Freire, Ingrid Fliter, and, depending on how you like your Chopin, Jan Lisiecki.
>>127059354WE WUZ TROUBADOURZ ET MERRRRDUGH
People who dislike boy sopranos in Bach’s works… methinks they protest too much.
You CAN sing all of Beethoven's late string quartets note-by-note, right, anon?
now playing
start of Bruch: String Quartet No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHeUMR201Q&list=OLAK5uy_n3qLe50hCviC30XQ5nF4M6JvRnh_n2pOY&index=2
start of Bruch: Swedish Dances, Op. 63
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUGjiDLrXoM&list=OLAK5uy_n3qLe50hCviC30XQ5nF4M6JvRnh_n2pOY&index=6
start of Bruch: Piano Quintet in G Minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ahHZg0MClw&list=OLAK5uy_n3qLe50hCviC30XQ5nF4M6JvRnh_n2pOY&index=21
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n3qLe50hCviC30XQ5nF4M6JvRnh_n2pOY
Never heard of these Swedish Dances before. I really like the idea of chamber music miniatures, like Dvorak's Bagatelles and Echo of Songs/Cypresses for string quartet.
>>127082624If you can’t listen to a boy sing without thinking about pederasty…
>>127081767> Shota choir> Shotacon (ショタコン, shotakon), abbreviated from Shōtarō complex (正太郎コンプレックス, shōtarō konpurekkusu), is, in Japanese contexts, the attraction to young (or young-looking) boy characters, or media centered around this attraction. The term refers to a genre of manga and anime wherein prepubescent or pubescent male characters are depicted in a suggestive or erotic manner, whether in the obvious role of object of attractionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotacon
What a strange thing to say!
>>127082627I can't even sing one note or motif (except grosse fuga), I find them ugly, nonmelodic and boring.
>>127082779Damn. As a result of this, we cannot be friends or ever sleep together. In fact, we might have become enemies for life, or at least until you rectify this aesthetic blasphemy.
>>127059171try pressing play and forming an opinion of your own fuckwit
>>127082863but there's ~14 volumes!
>>127082908set it to 4x speed for efficiency
>>127082985oh shii--
>>127082943plus, the main purpose of my post was to possibly foster some discussion about the composer and their music.
>>127083023>GodowskyHe's a stunt composer "how can I make this fairly nice safe music EVEN MORE COMPLEX AND EPIC!" not worth the listen.
>>127083051Godowsky Chopin etudes are fire though. I like to listen to them over Chopin etudes from time to time. I like to think they are the hardest, most technically demanding pieces of solo piano music, that's still listenable and not some atonal or post-tonal filth.
holy shit this Adagio from Beethoven's Op. 59, No. 1, continuing with this set
>>127060733https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q5xIZ0jzbg&list=OLAK5uy_mKFRg3EsBnWhsKwSFp_d_CjKgZtSTGmVI&index=28
Superb. Moving. Intelligently played.
feels like a Mahler 2 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA_s8ONJvVc
It's a Mozart 21 day for me
Hope you have a good friday, anons. I received some good news, so I am a little bit happy
https://youtu.be/8RL8QVIrSug
>>127083267Excellent recording choice. And happy for you, anon :) godspeed!
Händel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DShxWQkEZ4
>>127083267I liked The Northman and The VVitch.
>>127082627Wagner insisted that something very important could be learnt from training singers by singing Beethoven's late string quartets, and was going to institute it in his music school which fell through. I have no idea what he thought would be learned from it.
Mendelssohn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhS7-iU3j6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zZ3sRHd57M
Shostakovich
>>127084028the existence of God, transcendence, sublimity
>>127085031Schizophrenia is primarily treated with antipsychotic medications, which help manage symptoms like hallucinations, delusions, and disordered thinking. Haloperidol (Haldol) and fluphenazine primarily block dopamine receptors but other medications such as risperidone (Risperdal), quetiapine (Seroquel), and olanzapine (Zyprexa), also affect other neurotransmitters like serotonin.
>>127080544She’s 76 my guy
>>127085086I don't mean to burst your bubble but the existence of schizophrenia doesn't account for either highly structured and unified visions or the intensity of sensation in the qualia of mystical experiences in general.
>>127085086Uh…thanks Ian that’s certainly some useful information!
>>127085155maybe they understand what language you just spoke over at >>>/x/ but we normal folks of /mu/ mainly speak in English.
>>127085155You're right, it's suggestibility.
Whoever makes the new /classical/ thread, please add this to the general information. This TC post has the old recommended music list
https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/compilation-of-the-tc-top-recommended-lists.17996/
what you listen to: mozart
what the guy she tells you not to worry about listens to: elgar
>>127085321well if he unironically thinks that elgar is superior to Mozart I wouldn't worry about him even without she telling me. What a retarded thought experiment
Zhu Xiao-Mei's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkqteRy2mQ&list=OLAK5uy_maxz-CpqTKSsuSNTOotAxFNXUCCpB4yh0&index=44
>>127085393Exactly- he’s just a friend from work
>>127077768Someone else check out this anon's new piece.
>>127085466She looks like the survivor of a tragedy
>>127085522Yes, communist China.
When I hear nutcases like Glenn Gould who do: [plays staccato version of J.S. Bach's Partita no. 1, BWV 825, Allemande], I say he understood nothing of Bach's music! I've listened carefully to his records: he didn't understand. He was very brilliant; I respect him up to a certain point. For me, the fact that an artist doesn't appear in public poses a problem. But at least he was a guy with the courage not to do things like other people. All the same, he was wide off the mark, so wide off the mark that you'd need a 747 to bring him back. I'm hard on Glenn Gould. Well, he's dead now, so I won't attack a colleague.
>>127085466Stop posting this crap.
127085466
127086142
Never post it again.
Handel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6_L0EqAC_w
>>127086210just messing with you anon. You cam post the Chinese grandma ‘aBach if you want.
>>127085466Piano sounds out of tune
yall aint even tapped into the london philharmonic orchestra
posers
>>127086669second-tier orchestra.
>>127086788You can't name a single first-tier orchestra that isn't Vienna Philharmonic
>>127086812West-Eastern Divan Orchestra
What is the greatest Bruckner symphony? Obvious choice would be 9, but it's unfinished. 8 would be second choice but it is too backloaded, 7 too frontloaded, 5 IMO spends too much time calling back to previous movements in the final movement. 4 I'd say is probably the most perfect overall and balances everything the best
His 1st violin concerto is undoubtedly one of the best concertos ever written, but what about his other 2? Does anyone like them as much as 1st? I'm about to listen to all 3.
Bruch was apparently upset that only 1st got so much fame and attention
>Nothing compares to the laziness, stupidity and dullness of many German violinists. Every fortnight another one comes to me wanting to play the first concerto. I have now become rude; and have told them: ‘I cannot listen to this concerto any more – did I perhaps write just this one? Go away and once and for all play the other concertos, which are just as good, if not better.
>On the corner of the Via Toledo they stand there, ready to break out with my first violin concerto as soon as I allow myself to be seen. (They can all go to the devil! As if I had not written other equally good concertos!)
>>127059042 (OP)Taking a break from listening to other stuff to get at least a pleb's scope of classical in my library, starting with more properly going through Bach.
A- am I really supposed to go through all of the BWV?
>>127087519No one listens to entire catalogue, no. And Bach is not the best composer to start with, but I'm speaking this from my experience so take it with a grain of salt. I've hated Bach for a long time, now that I love him, I still think he's not easy composer to take on.
I would start with romantic music (e.g. Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Brahms, Chopin).
>>127086841thought this was some kind of weird Goethe joke before looking it up and realising it was a real orchestra with a Goethe name
>>127087585I've been keen to properly dive into Bach since I've loved the little I've heard from him, but fair enough I don't mind checking out romantics first.
>>127087631Don't be afraid to ask for recs on how to find good recordings etc.
>>127087631Go with what calls to you first.
>>127087659I'll gladly take recs for that, I just wouldn't expect to be fine asking it. Indeed, the little I downloaded showed it's not as simple as with regular modern albums.
>>127087680Well, Bach is the big one, even if I'm looking forward to others. At the same time, I do like to save stuff as "trump cards" for later when catching up on stuff, not just with music, although in the end I might find Bach just pretty good and enjoy some lesser known guy way more.
>>127087519>>127087519>A- am I really supposed to go through all of the BWV?Why not if you like bach :)
If you prefer organ music you could start with a recording of the complete organ works. I recommend the aeolus recording by ewald kooiman and his students.
The dark secret of classical is that the 20th century was the greatest for music
>>127087768>I'll gladly take recs for that,Classicstoday.com
Dave Hurwitz YT channel (same guy)
Talkclassical forums
+Just randomly google "X best recording" or "X reference recording" and remember, if you don't like a piece, it could be due to the recording/interpretation and need of repeated listening.
Check out Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, listen to it a few times for a couple days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTQ3RHDHCY
The dark secret of classical is David Hurwitz's boyfriend
>>127087899This, except 19th century, and it's not even close.
>>127087922That's the coward's answer anon
>>127087934It's the obviously correct answer. Only stuffed shirt clerk types think the 20th century was better.
>>127087899>Shostakovich, Ravel and Satie are greater than Beethoven, Wagner and Tschaikovskymeds now
>>127087915What about him?
>>127087899The greatest century was actually the one between 1850 and 1950
I'll take 1820 - 1920, thank you.
Can't leave out late Beet and Chopin
Next edition: Bruch or Chopin
We've never actually had a Bruch edition it seems
I remember still the first time I saw the Vagner meme.
It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.
Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"
/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.
I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.
They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.
>womeme edition
>early
No thanks.
last for shota choir
https://youtu.be/wpeiD9D72vA
>>127088536>>127088550starting OP wars is way worse than making an a 2 post early thread.
>>127088564Let the adults handle OP.
>>127088550Neu! isn't classical
>>127088601starting OP wars is not very adult
>>127088883because there's a new one every couple days and anyone is free to make them with the composer of their choice. instead of being childish about it and starting a conflict you could have just made one first or in worst case wait until you have the opportunity next time.
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