Thread 127149022

He's not wrong but it doesn't translate to automatically being better art or even just music

I don't think he said that.

>>127149022 (OP)
It's a trip, it's got a funky beat, and I can bug out to it!

genius insight that must pass for unprecedent wisdom to rightoids

>>127149064
I love classical, but it's not even meant for the same thing. You can't dance or bang your head and kick out the motherfucking jams.

Don't worry, metal fixed it and became better than classical.

>>127149134
That's hardly true either. Metal hasn't been good since it's earliest days.

>>127149022 (OP)
>the amount of talent and work – mostly work
Spoken like a true marxist.
It's irrelevant how hard someone worked on a piece of art, all that matters is if it's any good. You working for 50 years on an unlistenable piece of crap doesn't make it somehow good.

>>127149080
He did

>>127149022 (OP)
I dunno man some prog rock and metal is pretty fucking hard

>>127149022 (OP)
how is it possible for him to have an even less appealing face then alan dershwitz
why does maga insists on using the most ugly and unappealing people as their demagogues

>>127149247
>why does maga insists on using the most ugly and unappealing people as their demagogues
I doubt he even said this.
But no one cares about presentation exactly on the right. Just economics and political philosophy. Focusing on looks has always been more of a liberal thing. They've always tried to be more marketable. At least since Kennedy. Or maybe FDR. He was literally a cripple, but they hid that the whole time.
They probably should care more though.

>>127149285
>I doubt he even said this.
He said it in this video https://youtu.be/IGb6TQY7HL8?si=176WGv2dj5nJ0hNw

>>127149285
Here's the funny thing. Hiphop is more capitalistic than even GOP geezers would ever dream of. It's all about hustle and the individual rising up and obsessed with luxury (Gucci gang) and killing anyone who gets in your way.
And yet there's like schizoprenic messaging in hiphop. They almost all support Democrats, despite it representing nothing that they stand for. All because of marketing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jLAJk1Hj4Y

>>127149311
Is this about rap or rock? I've heard him talk shit about rap before, but I don't want to watch 7 mins to find the rock bit.

>>127149319
It's at 3:35

>>127149022 (OP)
nigga you are JEWISH! YOU are the reason behind the degradation of western art

>>127149326
Ah, OK. He's showing himself to be a bore for this, like I said earlier. Rock was for kids and dancehalls and for having fun. Not listening alone like some loser and act intellectual about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOZbMjzJsQ

>>127149311
>errm i got the musical case against rap and then the cultural case
holy fuck he's the embodiment of pathetic loser dweeb energy
i discard the opinion of people i feel like i could kill with my bear hands so he can be ignored

>>127149311
Ben Shapiro is a rapper now thoughbeit
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kGpohEpuTE

>>127149022 (OP)
lots of jazz musicians are classically trained

>>127149314
ever consider that hiphop might be the fakest genre of music?

>>127149022 (OP)
there's no direct line from rock to jazz to classical.
that is a mental construct based not on music, but on perceived popularity.

silly cherry-picking statement about mastery, too.
let me try: the work you have to put into playing Steely Dan's Deacon Blues on guitar is a lot greater than the work you have to put into John Cage's 4'33"

>>127149342
>was

>>127149022 (OP)
hate this kike

>>127149022 (OP)
the buzzfeed of politics, yawn

>>127149022 (OP)
>classical
blasphemy to god. Anything not gregorian chant with candles and robes is auditory heathen.

>>127149022 (OP)
lol
lmao even

>>127149247
>why does maga insists on using the most ugly and unappealing people as their demagogues
He's controlled opposition.

>>127149314
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

>>127149022 (OP)
he's not wrong if you only play three chords but how many guitarists stop there?

>>127149022 (OP)
Him, Walsh, and the rest of the Daily Wire are a psyop to turn anyone with any conservative leanings into boring sods for the left to easily ridicule.
>Oh you're right wing? That means you must be a dense, serious automaton about every thing, not fun allowed. You can only be irreverent when mocking the most insane leftists like trannies, otherwise you must be a boring faggot with no personality because facts don't care about your feelings (feelings only count when it's about Israel)

>>127151443
>comments all have 20x more updoots than on his other videos
totally organic

>>127149152
Source

>>127149022 (OP)
Huh? Are you stupid are something?

>>127149147
So what do you have against AI art?

>>127149064
Yes, it does. Because classical music requires mastery of composition and aesthetics, not just instruments. It's all connected.
>>127149128
Yes, you can. You literally have classical DANCE forms, you fucking dilettante. Besides, some 20th century classical is heavy as shit, and you can headbang to it.
>>127149147
You're right. Good thing (the best) classical music is extremely listenable and interesting.
>>127150667
Were. Not they're trained in jazz because jazz is its own academic thing.
>>127151111
Nobody is talking about or listening to Cage, you cretin.
>>127151344
Gregorian chants are classical music.

>>127154870
>Because classical music requires mastery of composition and aesthetics, not just instruments
So does metal

>>127154870
>You literally have classical DANCE forms, you fucking dilettante
Rooms filled with wannabe aristocrats in gowns and tuxes aren't what that anon was referring to you fucking niggerfaggot. Have you ever been to a metal concert?

>>127154894
I listen to metal and no, it doesn't. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>127154911
You have no idea what the idiot meant, you fucking retarded faggot. He was clearly making a universal statement about classical music not being danceable, which is demonstrably false.

>>127149022 (OP)
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
>>127149064
It does. Art music is better by every measurable aspect. It objectively stimulates the most pleasure.
>>127149147
Classical composers however, are great.
>>127150667
Jazz is still pop
>>127151111
All popular music, even the most underground garbage you listen to, has the same roots in lowbrow pop music.
>>127153543
He got it right.
>>127154870
Correct.
>>127154894
LOL. No dude. Beethoven's pupil could write better metal songs if he wanted to. Which metal "composer" understand the language of music? How the voices should move and how harmony functions? All they do is parallel fifths and sloppy lead on top, metal is more pop than actual pop music.

>>127156095
You still don't get that because something is more complex or someone has more knowledge about something doesn't make it better. Consommé might be way harder to prepare than steak with fries and you have to be a skilled chef to make it right but I'd sill take the steak with fries.

>>127156138
Your missing the point. It's not just about complexity or difficulty for their own sake. It's about mastering multiple dimensions. Classical music demands a holistic mastery, so it's not just about playing an instrument well, but also mastering form, harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, aesthetic coherence, etc.

Also, your food analogy doesn't hold. You're conflating subjective preference ("I like fries") with artistic value, which CAN be assessed to a fairly high degree through objective criteria.

>>127156138
>>127156237
I'd also point out that just because you've mastered all these things to a high degree, that doesn't mean the music will necessarily SOUND complex as a listening experience. Mozart is incredibly detailed and intricate, but often sounds simple and balanced on the surface. That's the beauty of this kind of music. It's not always "difficult" in how it comes across, but it still takes a genius (or an extremely hard worker) to create.

>>127156138
Classical music that's not complex is still more enjoyable (not on a personal, but objective basis) than pop music. Having immense experience and being a genius is extremely valuable in any field of study, science, tech, medicine or whatever, why do you think music is exempt from this rule?

>>127156237
>>127156270
"Objective" my ass. It's your subjective opinion. How tf do you measure which music composition is objectively better?

>>127151443
These are clearly leftists being boosted by discards, where do you think you are? We know your tactics.

>>127156463
>discards
*discords

>>127149285
Which philosophers in general?

>>127156345
It isn't.
>How tf do you measure
Form, voice leading, harmony etc.
Of course, at the top of the ladder, there come subjective preferences, like between late Beerhoven sonatas, or Mozart piano concertos, or preference between genres such as string quartet, piano concerto etc.
But everyone can at least appreciate bits of everything, because classical enjoyers value objective quality as much as subjective preferences (which really become one, the more you listen).

>>127153443
>>127156463
>totally organic
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-putin/

>>127149022 (OP)
If you have to put time into it and it doesn't come natural you are a hack fraud pseud anyway, regardless of genre or style. Classical music is the ultimate midwit pastime btw, sitting in a church listening to Bach trying to make it look as though his ugly protestant soulless music means anything, lmao. It's not that people with a functioning brain (as in me) don't understand or it, we just disregard it for the elaborate nonsense it is.

I don’t know if I can listen to Ben anymore he’s so darn Jewish. I think he might have got even more Jewish

>>127157112
>PUTLEERRRRR
Fuck off

>>127157159
Most plebian shit I've ever heard, if you are going to diss some of the most emotive and well-constructed works of art ever, at least don't pretend to have a functioning brain. The worst part is that you probably say all of this and then will esteem some shitty acts like Van Halen to be pillars of rock music in your moronic pursuit of "non-chalant" pop muzak. Kill yourself

Triggered midwit

>>127154870
You probably believe in the Labour Theory of Value

>>127158110
>if you are going to diss some of the most emotive and well-constructed works of art ever
lmao as I said enjoy your midwitslop

>>127157159
>It's not that people with a functioning brain (as in me) don't understand or it,
You don't. You don't understand how a fugue works, you can't hum a single fugal subject, you're retarded.

>>127149022 (OP)
metal requires more skill than classical

>>127159146
1/10 bait made me reply.

>>127159163
not baiting tho it took mustaine a couple hours to learn some classical pieces while the orchestra would take years to learn mustaine's songs look it up on youtube

>>127159221
>years to learn megadeth songs

lol, lmao

>>127149022 (OP)
This guy doesn’t even have intercourse

>>127158110
>and then will esteem some shitty acts like Van Halen to be pillars of rock music
EVH listened to classical as much as he did rock, and that's on top of being the most influential guitarist of the 80s.

Cope and seethe at being a nerd that's intellectualized music so much you forgot how to enjoy it.

>>127159221
First off, no one would learn a Megdeth song because of how trivial and shitty it is. Second, no, Mustaine could never in his life play a 4 voice fugue, or anything that demands careful voicing.

>>127159307
The irony here, is that classical enjoyers truly enjoy the music more than pop sloppers. Not that a POP slopper would know heh.

>>127159221
Based

>>127159387
>is that classical enjoyers truly enjoy the music
Your virginal sperging about what is and isn't well made music says otherwise.
>pop sloppers
Sorry, I don't post in kpop threads

>>127159387
How does your enjoyment of music look like? Do you get orgasm while listening?

>>127159429
>Your virginal sperging
Blah blah keep your boring buzzwords to yourself, girl.
>kpop threads
Rock is pop.
>>127159451
Fuck yeah. I literally get an orgasm listening to this sonata, especially the last movement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBUNHCigc1s&list=OLAK5uy_mHAMWgaTjn2xJTqzRos14q2wyB1jd3sLA&index=1
So do you. The version of yourself that's patient.

>>127159876
And classical is boring, in the time it takes you to wait to cum to that last movement, rockers will have gone through a dozen vaginas.

>>127159939
Even the first movement alone mogs all popular music (a.k.a. non-classical and non-folk) though. Has more energy and more music than entirety of pop.

>>127160003
>and non-folk
Why are you bringing even this here

>>127159876
>, especially the last movement:
>posts the first movement

>>127149022 (OP)
Ben Shapiro couldn't hack it as a classical, jazz, or even a rock musician.
Rap is not even music according to him, and it's the only genre where he was even able to find fake success.

>>127160020
It's important to see the distinction between Art music, Popular music and Folk music. Pretty much all the garbo you listen to probably falls in the category of 'Popular music', not the other two.
>>127160023
Click the playlist, dummy. And listen to the entire sonata, it won't kill you;

>>127160137
And folk music is where in your music hierarchy?

>>127160126
Ben is more succesful than anyone in this thread or on this board

>>127160150
He was handed everything with his name on it.

>>127160145
It isn't exactly a hierarchy, just a correct classification.

>>127160150
>(((Ben)))
He was born unsuccessful. Even though he's right this time, as I already said.

Ben Shapiro with all of his musical training couldn't make this if his life depended on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzqpdqNDg0

Unfortunately so much classical music is rigid and formulaic

>>127160314
he was born with gold-covered foreskins in his mouth, dont be fooled

>>127160443
The vast majority of classical music ever made was formulaic garbage. Many composers who are praised today died unknown to the public (Haydn, Schubert, Alkan, Bach, etc.), meanwhile there are tons of composers who were famous in their time whose music aged poorly (Meyerbeer, Hummel, Praetorius). The same is true for rock music, the only difference being that all the garbage hit rock songs are too recent to have been forgotten yet.

>>127158724
I know what it is, could hum it, but I simply don't give a fugue

>>127149022 (OP)
Gay nerd

>>127160996
Lol nice pun, but no you don't. Faggot.

the "problem" is music, along with eating, are the two great "artforms" that everyone literally has to do. unless you're deaf or you don't have a stomach, you have to hear stuff and eat stuff. therefore everyone has an opinion on music, and food. not everyone has an opinion on painting, reading or sculpture. that's why you rarely get retarded takes on those artforms, whereas hot takes like "rap is good, rock is better than classical" and "burgers are good" is going to be the mainstream opinion; doesn't mean it means anything, doesn't mean we should take it seriously

>>127156095
laufey isnt jazz tiktk addicted zoom zoom

>>127160299
Art Music and Traditional Music have no overlap?

>>127149022 (OP)
You talk like a fag and your shits all retarded

>>127157159
They play guitars in churches, not Bach

>>127161082
Fuggueot*

>>127149022 (OP)
isn’t cool with how music can evolve without rules?

>>127165652
>evolve
degrade*

Classical music sounds like an autist’s attempt at creating emotional music at best. It’s robotic and lifeless at worst. No major aspect of it is relevant today.

Form? Too long winded by modern standards.
Harmony? Turns out people like the sound of a straightforward chord progression to weirdo baroque shit.
Melody? Modern melodies are just more expressive and have more personality than anything classical did.
Rhythm? Classical has the most boring rhythms of them all.
Texture? Classical sounds so one dimensional due to its need to follow certain rules on orchestration

Modern music starts with blues and jazz not boring ass classical music.

>>127154870
>Yes, you can. You literally have classical DANCE forms, you fucking dilettante. Besides, some 20th century classical is heavy as shit, and you can headbang to it.
No one can dance or mosh to that shit. Why are classiclafags so obstuse

>>127160299
>art music
Psy op

>>127165751
>The ragebait is weak. TOO WEAK!

>>127162231
Who?
Slop.
>>127162336
Art music can take influence from traditional music, but not vice versa
>>127165652
Breaking rules is permissible, not knowing the rules is not.
>>127165751
0/10 bait
>>127165803
Of course they can. That's why they are "dance forms"

>>127150997
Hiphop is the most pathetic way of trying to entertain, intimidate, or generate sympathy that has ever been created. It's the paralympics of music and it's popularity lines up perfectly with the degeneration of society.

>>127167720
Couldn't have said it better myself, glad I'm not the only one

>>127167720
>its* popularity lines up perfectly with the degeneration of society.
Correct.

>>127167888
It isn't. Music was improving right up until 20th century. Even then you had quite decent micro innovations (e.g. Scriabin, Stravinsky). And then it spiralled downward at an unprecedented rate.

>>127168079
>implying mozart could ever top temporary secretary

>>127168098
Who? What?

>>127149022 (OP)
>Rhapsody of Fire blocks your way

>>127149022 (OP)
>jazz which is a degradation of skill from classical
This isn't true. If anything, Jazz IS a modern form of classical: art music with a high degree of virtuosity. "Classical" just means "old western art music."

>>127168101
>2011 + 16
>still not making it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o78aNmaNBqM

>>127168102
Jazz is poorfag version of slop-tier classical

>>127165008
prozzies love their Mattheus Passion with Easter

>>127168120
Jazz is just a sophisticated as classical and requires a very high degree of skill and virtuosity

>>127168102
No. Film (and videogame) scenic music is modern form of classical, even though it's brutally simplified in comparison. Jazz is too much centered around rhythm to have the same uplifting effect to brain. Obligatory pic related. Also, high degree of virtuosity can be often found in metal or bluegrass for example.

>omg I'm following a fugue
>am fugeuuuuuing
>ah my sophisticated brainnnnnnnnn

>>127168171
That's just autistic. Classical has a lot of rhythm, it's just not expressed with drums.
Seems like your mind is what is simplified lol

the vast majority of classical instrumentalists are kids who had asshole parents who forced them to sink 10,000 hours into it, no shit they're more proficient

>>127149022 (OP)
Classical music was never pop music even in it's day. They had pop/folk music back then, like rock is today.

>>127168182
if you're not fugueing while fugueing then you're not making a fugue

>>127168202
top classical musicians were literally celebrities gastrolling and doing stage performances all over for fame and money.
how tf is this not pop?

>>127168233
that's a bit anachronistic and really started with liszt

>>127149022 (OP)
Rock is the return of Troubadour culture

>>127168171
>that post
Lmao white people hate rhythm focused music because they can't move

>>127168148
If it was true, it wasn't the music of black folks who improvised on the street

>>127168271
I'm white and apparently I dance like Snoop Dogg so stick that up your kfc you little shit

>>127149022 (OP)
I want to heem his dweeb so badly.

>>127166449
Classical music is boring.

>>127168280
No, it's the music of jazz clubs and concert halls...
What makes you think jazz was a bunch of people playing in the street? Lol

>>127168148
Lol. Lmao.
Jazz is terrible at form and counterpoint. It's pop music.

>>127168337
Only if you're a gigantic faggot that hasn't listened to any classical music.

>>127169025
>music must have X to be good!!!@!
Autism

>>127169046
>music must have good qualities to be good
I think that's just tautology not autism.

>>127168242
who do you think Scarlatti was? they were having clavichord and organ face-offs in public centuries before liszt, and this isn't remotely the oldest example

>>127169032
Call me when Beethoven learns to spit lines like Eminem. Might listen then.

>>127168171
you want to sound smart SO bad LMAO

>>127169105
it's honestly better if you don't listen, it's better that way for musically challenged who consider rap music

>>127169074
You’re a Sorabji fan I knew it

>>127169074
See if you can follow me, here. Just because music doesn't have "X" good thing, doesn't mean it's bad, because it might have some other good thing. Not all classical music even has counterpoint or emphasis on form

>>127169121
Rap bops though

>>127169156
that's exactly what i mean. keep bopping.

>>127149134
metal is the only "degradation" of classical music that CAN'T be good. you can have very good pop, jazz, rock, soul, funk, r&b songs, but never metal, EVER. metal always sucks

>>127169221
You're just low t lol

>>127169240
metal is just angry dude music, bro why you so angry? christ is coming

>>127169095
popular with composers and very elite social circles with survivorship bias is not the same as popular in the modern sense of the word. even in those elite circles all of the big names we know today were relatively obscure before the advent of deutsche grammophon. bach for instance was virtually unheard of until the early 20th century.

>>127149022 (OP)
>jazz which is a degradation of skill from classical
that's a little silly, they obviously require different skills
jazz requires improvisational skills, communication with other players and has a focus on rhythm. but it's more forgiving of minor mistakes

>>127169294
>but it's more forgiving of minor mistakes
Usually. Sometimes it's less forgiving, depending on the bandleader.

>>127169221
hate to say it, but this. some metal is great but most of it is hormonal edginess, especially the shit that larps as "classically" inspired kek

>>127169290
>and very elite social circles
aka the only ones who mattered and could pick and choose
>with survivorship bias
you're retarded
>ven in those elite circles all of the big names we know today were relatively obscure
also retardedly wrong. just as many recognized composers were lauded as the greatest at their time as those that were unknown.

>>127169392
>aka the only ones who mattered and could pick and choose
also the only ones who paid

>>127169290
Bach was forgotten till he was propped up by Mendelssohn- he’s literally a Jewish psyop

>>127169335
metal as a whole sucks because it always conveys the same emotions, epicness and anger, and literally nothing else. it's such a non-versatile genre it's insane. the differences between metal subgenres is microscopic but metalheads love arguing about it to make their shitty music seem sophisticated. then you look at prog rock or jazz, both extremely versatile and they don't have half of the subgenres metal has.

prog jazz enjoyers: woah, this artist has a different sound than most artists of the genre, thats cool

metalheads: OMG HE PLAYED THE RIFF 2 BARS SHORTER THAN MOST SONGS OF THE GENRE AND ALSO PLAYED IT 20BPM FASTER THATS GOTTA BE A NEW GENRE RIGHT? RIGHT? IMMA CALL IT FAST N SHORT METALCORE OR MAYBE UMMM

>>127169411
Music would have ended long ago if we hadn't covered up Bach and stopped him from mogging people beyond the grave

>>127169444
>the differences between metal subgenres is microscopic but metalheads love arguing about it to make their shitty music seem sophisticated.
based trips but also this is by far the dumbest thing about metalheads. the differences between early and late beethoven or one decade-long period of jazz has more variety than all of metal and yet those fanbases avoid the poindexter autism lmao

>>127169444
i don't enjoy or listen to most metal but listen to power metal the most out of any genre of music, i feel it's a lot less noisy, messy and more dynamic and varied, at least the bands that i listen to

>>127169458
t. Midwit fallen for Jewish formslop

>>127169475
revealing of Bach alone was worth giving the jews israel for

>>127169475
>>127169411
Are you trying to say Bach is a psyop?
And btw, Mendelssohn was himself a genius composer

>>127169325
>Are you rushing or dragging?

>>127169444
>>127169469

>>127169526
Normie meme movies aside, guys like Mingus, Miles and Artie Shaw are who I had in mind

>>127169444
>and literally nothing else
I wouldn't go that far, there is also sadness, desperation, confusion, nostalgic yearning, disgust

I like jazz, but it's not like most of it is very emotionally varied. when you have whole subgenres named "cool jazz" or "smooth jazz", it's a bit hypocritical to make fun of metalheads for the same thing

>>127149022 (OP)
People have been singing songs and playing a stringed instrument since antiquity, rock, country, folk etc. is just a continuation of what whites have been doing for centuries, this Jew doesn’t know shit

>>127169589
lmao this tourist thinks west coast/east coast differentiations are as autistic as >>127169532

jazz works by people and scenes, not ad hoc labels. because improvisation is so important, distinctions are usually made by dominant improvisational styles, not timbre. it's completely illogical to be using pop/rock categorization logic (which is ultimately what most metal also uses) on a genre that predates pop and rock.

>>127149128
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Ourwy0OlU&pp=ygURdG9jdHRhIGZ1Z2UgbWV0YWw%3D

>>127169665
ew

>>127169589
it's all negative emotions overall, drenched in a thick superficial layer of anger. never head a bittersweet metal song that is not suicidal. jazz sometimes can be very limited in range of emotions, like coltrane, but you also have ppl like Ryo Fukui who explore a wide range of moods and feelings, or Armstrong and Ella for a more pop focus into more bittersweet emotions

>>127169683
>Ryo Fukui who explore a wide range of moods and feelings

>>127169708
sorry i dont listen to le jazz if it doesnt sound like a chicken being stabbed 593503 times over a circle of fifths which is based in the jewish kabbalah you NORMIE

>>127169105
Beethoven already wrote choral music better than all pop slop combined.
>>127169143
>Just because music doesn't have "X" good thing, doesn't mean it's bad,
If that "X" is as basic as form, then yes it indeed does mean that it's bad.
>>127169221
All suck.
>>127169294
Classical improv is harder than jizz improv. Because it actually requires effort and some talent.
>>127169469
Correct.
>>127169617
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and Ben is right, pop (rock, country etc.) is purely a degradation of music.

>>127169775
Jazz has "form", it just doesn't have the same kind of formal complexity as a beethoven symphony.
You're so dumb that you think Jazz has no form? I was just saying it doesn't have complex high level architectural form

>>127168271
Sorry to say that, but the ability to dance is vastly inferior to the ability of building machines that can send humans to space. Not to mention, that even without the "superior african feel for rhythm", white people managed to create the culture of classical music, which is the richest musical gift that has ever been given to humanity.

>>127169589
>cool jazz
Playing style/articulation are restrained and introverted, tendency to be influenced by chamber music or classical music (particularly impressionists like Ravel and Debussy), not afraid to embrace collective improv, mild-to-medium dissonance or odd time signatures
>smooth jazz
More extroverted style, tendency to be influenced by new age and pop rhythms and tonality, much more consonance, less swung-feel, almost always follows basic strophic forms
Other than things like omitting more complicated substitutions and quartal voicings, they're completely different. Their differences are far vaster than the gap between death metal and black metal, for example. In other words, Stan Getz and Zoot Sims sound nothing like Kenny G or David Benoit.

>>127169800
>Jazz has "form"
Yeah, usually a song, the most basic bitch form of all. No shit. It sucks and jazz sucks. Call me when jazzfaggot can improvise a fugue.

>>127169719
Neither do I. I listen to Barry Harris and George Shearing. They're big names in jazz but not in Youtube algorithm coreslop, so you've never heard of them.

>>127169831
Ignorant retard

>>127169831
>muh fugue
Autism. Tourism.
Now we're back to:
>>Just because music doesn't have "X" good thing, doesn't mean it's bad,
You think "complex form" is necessary to make good music. Autism

>>127169831
(You) want to sound le sophisticated so bad, kwab

>>127169847
>usually
You think I'm not aware of jazz sonatas? Get the fuck out tastelet
>>127169858
>Autism.
Correct.
>Tourism.
But enough about you.

>>127169869
You don't even have to try, you sound extremely dumb by default.

>>127169874
I mean, you mention fugue as a form, but it's one of the most loosely define forms there is. It's the one thing normies seem to know about "classical is complex!!!"
And stuff like sonata form is really not that sophisticated.
Most Jazz is variations on a theme - which is a common form in classical
The themes used in jazz (ie. Harmonic and melodic) tend to be quite complex

>>127166347
>>127166449
No bait. Nobody would want to listen to a pop song in sonata form it would sound like ass. A song like Billy Jean does more with five chords than most classical does with 20. Classical doesn’t allow for the level of nuance in performance of melodies and rhythm that allows for affectation on the level modern music does. Since there are rules for orchestration and instruments are supposed to go together, and only allowing electronics in the limited way modern classical does, it doesn’t measure up texturally especially to what modern songs are able to do with just a mere laptop.

Classical is ultimately called that because it is irrelevant in the modern world. Or maybe was representative of being elite at a different time in history. Today you’re just dumb and out of touch for elevating it when nothing in modern culture supports elevating this music. Unless you’re an autistic robot who misses the forest for the trees.

>>127169834
>discrediting a cool japanese guy just because some american dudes played 393043 gigs in the country that jazz came from

give more recs though

>>127169775
>Classical improv is harder than jizz improv. Because it actually requires effort and some talent.
kek, another tourist pretending to be le smart

>>127169775
>Beethoven already wrote choral music
Bet those choral boys couldn't defeat Eminem in a rap battle

>>127169683
>it's all negative emotions overall
and what's the problem with that? most genres can't evoke those intense misanthropic feelings. the catharsis is exactly why people listen to metal

>>127169940
Go to Youtube and press refresh

>>127169683
>very limited in range of emotions, like coltrane, but you also have ppl like Ryo Fukui who explore a wide range of moods and feelings
had me going until that part hahahaha

>>127169803
That's all cool bud. Now get onto the dance floor whiteboy while I play some funky music.

>>127169444
"Epicness" is not an emotion. Do you want to try again Englishlet?

>>127169940
Wrong again, I discredit him because he's a sloppy player. Redundant improvisations and his bassist his a fucking clunky clown who plays double-bass like it's a bass guitar. Only weeb hipsters looking for a fashion item to jumpstart their "adulting" brag about listening to him. Kenny Barron is better than that guy, and I think Kenny Barron is fucking bland, cocktail muzak for automatons.

Whoever bullied ben shapiro in high school failed miserably

>>127169960
One Coltrane solo has more soul and emotive variety than an entire Fukui album but don't expect emotionally stunted turbo-autists to actually have a good understanding of emotion in music. Or in general.

>>127169929
>it's one of the most loosely define forms there is.
It really isn't.
>It's the one thing normies seem to know about
I didn't ask about your schizophrenia. Besides, you keep repeating this to me (second time you're seething about it) which just further proves your musical illiteracy. Go read a book or two.

Jazz is pop. It . End of.

>>127169931
>it would sound like ass.
No. It already sounds like ass.
>Classical is ultimately called that because
Because: Etymologically, classical comes from Latin (classicus. plural classici). Meaning of the highest class, belonging to the first class of citizens, superior, authoritative or exemplary. Originally a Roman social term used to designate upper class citizens of society. So when the phrase "classical music" was adopted, it borrowed the prestige of the term, something superior, timeless, worthy of study and preservation. Since historians wanted to treat this music asenduring art, on par with classical architecture and literature.
>modern culture
Degreaded, degenerated, nothing to see here.
>>127169941
>tourist
But enough about you.

>>127169874
You said to call you when they could improvise a fugue. So there, I called. What's so hard to understand?

>>127169949
misanthropic music is the same as uplifting music, they're two sides of the same coin. the best music is the one that reconciliates misery with joy, monothematic music is for manchildren who cant express their feelings. you dont need catharsis if you're not a cry baby, just like you dont need uplifting music if you're not an ignorant fuck

>>127170049
>But enough about you.
>not an argument
kek it's like debating with a woman. no evidence, all fee-fees lmao.

>>127170050
Fugal technique =! fugue
>>127170064
>not an argument
Argument against what? lol
>no evidence
Evidence of what?

>>127169775
>Classical improv is harder than jizz improv.
To be fair, this used to be true. Then Charles Lloyd and Keith Jarrett were born.

>>127169665
jesus. everything in this video is trashy
>long hair on a dude
>earrings
>nose piercing
>semi-shaven beard
>tattoos (whole arms covered with that shit)
>silly graphic t-shirt
>camo pants
>fake background
>"vintage" old film grain effect
>metal™ guitar
>covering classical music with distorted metal™ guitar sound
>putting metal™ drums to the cover accompaniment
he surrounds his virtuosity with so much ugliness, that it feels like a masochistic self-sabotage

>>127170053
yeah but you can't expect a 3 minute metal song to have the same emotional variety of a symphony by Mahler or something

>>127170098
people like that are just half a step away from disney adults

Reminder that Ben would heem you
>Physically
>Intellectually
>Financially

>>127169874
No one said anything about "jazz sonatas" retard, pay attention.

>>127149022 (OP)
Ben Shapiro will be strapped into a chair Ludovico-style and he will listen to Nic Sequeira songs all day, around the clock. He will not even be brought his daily ration of one Big Mac and three french fries because he is a little man and his place is to listen to Nic songs day in and day out. And life will just continue like that. Listen to this music and imagine you are Ben Shapiro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ngVXg8W6K4

>>127170049
>It really isn't
Yes it is. lol. It's just a musical composition with counterpoint based on a theme, with specific criteria for exposition. But the ways you can carry it out are very flexible.
>Jazz is pop. It . End of.
Sound like a weeb. Saying jazz is pop is just so wrong and strange. I'll leave you to it

>>127169494
>Mendelssohn was himself a genius composer
ROFL, LMAO even

>>127170135
poindexter manlet who pretends to be tough online lmao. he will be sent to the camps when the time comes.

>>127170003
he's got cool simple melodies that are not boring enough to be muzak, it's not that deep. just because a hipster brags about their youtube recommendations that doesn't discredit genuinely good music. it's also way better than many overrated "atonal' "experimental" "free jazz" composers who all they do is play the most annoying nonsense on their instrument while jerking off with their feet

>>127170153
>Sound like a weeb. Saying jazz is pop is just so wrong and strange.
most of the jazz they listen to comes from anime and video games, of course they only know about the pop-slop variants.

>>127170159
LOL DUDE!!

>>127170173
>people who have been listening to jazz for decades: this guy is kinda boring and predictable, don't get the hype desu
>people who have been listening to jazz for 4 hours: WOW GENIUS ONE OF A KIND SO SOUL MUCH EMOTION
total coincidence im sure

>>127170025
coltrane has to be the biggest psyop in music ever, just unlistenable ugly music in general but hipsters love it because LE EXPERIMENTAL 231 GATES OF HEAVEM ackshually it sounds like nonsense but he based this shitty song on the kabbalah so you should praise it

>>127149285
>no one cares about presentation exactly on the right
what fucking universe are you living in

>>127170198
your fomo victimhood is showing kek

>>127170163
He's also armed, surrounded by bodyguards and has connections with the Prime Minister of Israel and Trump-cope about camps that will never happend if you need to.

>>127170198
You just don't get it lmao

>>127170173
>he's got cool simple melodies
Simple, yes, but they're not cool at all, they're fucking unbearably corny and cliche. if you know jazz then you know exactly who he's imitating, and it's unbearably tryhard.
>it's also way better than many overrated "atonal' "experimental" "free jazz" composers
Agreed but unlike you I don't set the bar that low. I've noticed people love denigrating the free-form movement as some whataboutism appeal, despite the fact it doesn't even make up 1% of jazz. It comes off tourist-y.

>>127170220
>if i change the goalposts from ben to person who isn't ben, i win!

>>127170084
Yes it used to be and still is. Classical improv has died out because it's so hard. And people got dumber. See the pattern?
>>127170138
I don't pay attention to slop, sorry.
>>127170153
>Yes it is
Contrapuntal forms (including and especially canons) are some of the most strictly composed, because of rigid rules about structure, voice leading, imitation and thematic treatment. These are the ones where deviations are minimal. As opposed to short forms like tenary, which are completely flexible and deviations are vast.
>But the ways you can carry it out are very flexible.
All forms are flexible to a degrre and bringing this up is nonsensical.

>>127170328
I'm not sure you even know what a form is

>>127170328
>degrre
degree*

>>127170342
Oh, and I'm absolutely certain now that YOU do not.
As I said, read a book or two, it won't kill you.

>>127170302
Yeah because presumably because you personally will be rounding up Jews into camps? Go home kid

>>127170081
>just play dumb and pray no one notices
Concession accepted.

Are you fucking midwits still 'debating' this? Genuinely embarrassing

>>127170367
>>nonsensical babble
>Concession accepted.
More like Gallons of cum accepted into the belly

>>127170328
>dont use any evidence
>keep making vague statements
>pray no one notices

>>127170278
at least its not jewish ritual type music like sun ra or coltrane

>>127170382
Meds

>>127170328
The rigid rules of voice leading etc are not formal elements. Form is at the high level (sections of the piece, etc). Also, the rules of voice leading aren't set in stone, they are for a particular stylistic era. Also, lots of classical music uses ternary or binary form. Are you saying that music is bad...?

>>127170391
You will never be smart and you will never win arguments online.

He's gay.

>127170374
>haha le SMUG comment haha

>>127170268
om is satanic and disgusting, boring, unlistenable, and yet you make your barista premium coffee, take a deep breath put your earbuds on and convince yourself that you're listening to the BIGGEST mind in musical history that only geniuses understand, instead of some satanic CIA psyop music

>>127170365
>personally
right because benny boy can personally defend himself lmao

>>127170173
>randomly comparing a piano trio to free jazz composers
Yeah you have no idea how to talk about this stuff. Stop punching above your weight class and stick to Radiohead and death grips

>>127170422
>you disagree with me therefore you're psyop'd!!

>>127170438
See:
>>127170135

He can also intellectually defend himself or if need be shoot you or get one of his guards to restain you.
Whereas you are too poor to hire guards and lack the charisma to inspire any one to follow you.

>>127170400
>The rigid rules of voice leading etc are not formal elements.
Fugue and canon combine from with strict voice leading rules. So while formally a fugue has exposition - development - recap it also demands technical discipline in voice leading.
>the rules of voice leading aren't set in stone
For fugues and counterpoint to work in formal sense, indeed they are.
>Are you saying that music is bad...?
Nope. Never said that. Handling a form is more important than the form itself.

>>127170422
OM was poorly received from the get-go and still has that reputation, retard. Listen to Expression or Meditations instead, not that brain-damaged vermin like you would get those either.

>>127170472
>mr equivocation fallacy
>intellectually defend himself

>>127170422
Look man I agree with you, but jesus there has to be a way of phrasing this that doesn't make you look like a paranoid whiny victim.

>>127170506
Try debating him then my guy-see how it goes for you. You're not allowed to start screaming about "Jews" when he starts beating you though

>>127170527
Okay

>>127149022 (OP)
Isn't jazz all about wank?

>>127149080
Come on man, he says retarded shit off the cuff all the time. And retards eat it up because he's Mr. Logic despite not knowing what predicates are lmao.

>>127170489
both kabbalistic juju bs too, not as unlistenable as om, om is still regarded by many just because coltrane did it. whats next, leonard cohen was a great songwriter? dylanstein too?

>>127170556
>om is still regarded by many just because coltrane did it
No it isn't, tourist.

>>127170328
Lol bro put on some Dr. Dre and maybe you'll get laid soon

>>127170540
Right, and I bet three chords and the truth sounds like wank to soundcloud rappers, too

>>127170566
normie magazines rated it 7/10 in average, that is a good bunch of people who enjoyed some parts of the album. maybe le experts know that they cant defend that garbage, but if people didnt fall for pretentious satanic bs the normie ratings would be 3/10 on average

>>127170632
The opposite would have been closer to the truth. Nice try, you exposed yourself again.

>>127170681
lmao what are you talking about? nobody can defend kabbaltrane once he's exposed, keep listening to your sophisticated normie music for ppl who think inverted pentagrams look "rad"

>>127170757
You have no idea how to discuss music and making spazzy autistic rants about fake jew daddies in the sky will not save you.

>>127170757
Coltrane has lots of other albums though lol

oh my fucking god dudes I was just on the toilet and I most definitely made a fugue from farts to counter the melody of the pissing, the percussive nature of the farting intertwined beautifully with the clattering qualities of the urine, and about midway through I full on changed subject and the farts became the primary melody line, my brain then got so stimulated that I kind of lost control of my excratory organs but for 20 seconds it was absolute bliss, I didn't even notice the smell anymore, it was fugue heaven.

ps my iq is 156 and I'm in Mensa

>>127170891
Something about watching beta males try to act alpha makes me sick.

>>127170919
What is alpha about unhinged laughing?

>>127170927
>If i post random /pol/ bait from 8 years ago I win!

go home kid

>>127170940
Nothing. Conservatives can't express genuine joy because they always come off like freakish ghouls.

>>127170919
What makes you think you can tell who's beta

>>127170986
Don't make fun of my Tucker boy. His laugh is pure.

>>127170919
The guy owns a $200 million company he started, I'd say that makes him pretty alpha

>>127171010
He actually laughs like The Snake from Stronghold/Stronghold Crusader

>>127171010
>my Tucker boy
This weird parasocial relationship conservatives have with their favorite influencers is scary

>>127170986
This looks actually genuine. Tucker is a different kind of conservative, talks from his heart even if you disagree with his politics this is easy to see. Ben Shapiros laugh is more schizo (his kind is more likely to be schizo anyways)

this argument falls apart when you consider folk music which is often even more primitive than most of jazz and rock, yet an essential tradition that classical music draws upon

>>127170993
Facts and logic

>>127171019
Fallacies are alpha, now

>>127171202
I don't think you understand this fallacy-assuming it's even a real one. I've certainly never heard of it .Yes your personal success reflects on you, unless you think there's 'alphas' working miminum wage jobs.

>>127171202
"rather than on the merits of the argument itself"
The argument is about the claim that he is alpha, so accomplishments are relevenant... Alpha male is literally status related.

>>127171019
>money makes you cool and manly

>>127171277
>money makes you manly

>>127171277
>uses the word literally like a hormonal 14 year old girl
>"guys trust me i know what manliness is"

>>127169268
>m-my magic kike is coming to smite you in 2 weeks
critically low t levels

>>127170870
kek saved

>>127171372
>>127171418
No counter argument? Typical.

>>127171256
>assuming it's even a real one
My god you are a subhuman maggot.

>>127171277
status is for women and jews, read the stoics retard

>>127171605
Yeah "appeal to achievement" is definitely fake

>>127171356
yes. I didn't want to be the one to tell you this but yes.

>>127171685
She's manlier than you btw

>>127170135
>>127170472

15 year old fat me could beat the shit out of "grown" adult Ben and modern me could kill him with my bare hands.
He'd maybe beat Destiny in a fight. And even that would be a struggle sesh for both of them.

>>127171151
....
Where exactly does it fall apart? lol

humming a fugue while I type this

ps also having a threesome right now with two hot babes

>>127172273
are you humming the other parts in multiphonics

>>127172273
Chad.
Which fugue? Let me guess! Let me guess!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTQ3RHDHCY
My fave!

>>127172287
sort of, albeit from the in/out movement of my penis into a nearby vagina, and the suspended 3/4 time of my testicular slaps; it's not easy to get right and the moaning of the prostitutes is interfering quite a bit (sounds affected), also trying not to coom and to maintain at least 70% erection as to keep the right pressure of the plapping sounds, but I can manage all of this by utilising my full brain capacity since I have an 156 iq (as tested by Mensa)

>>127172297
He's probably humming this one(the best one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe1vF0bgmb4&list=RDQe1vF0bgmb4&start_radio=1&ab_channel=puffthecat

>>127154935
>I listen to metal and no, it doesn't.
Found the Iron Maiden noob.

>>127154894
Found the biggest retard ITT lmao

>>127159221
/thread

>>127159221
I looked it up and it's fake news

>>127169268
>metal is just angry dude music
This is an absurd statement. The metal landscape with all of its sub genres is incredibly vast. There is all kinds of metal out there. From cringe to utterly brilliant.

>>127169665
>BACH WOULD NEVER PLAY METAL YOU STUPID CHU-

>>127172615
He wouldn't, larping retard. He would be playing so-called "classical" if he were still alive and nothing else. Power chord tonality is for manchildren lol.

>>127172368
I mean, it's pretty but, Bach's fugue (&passacaglia) in C is insane, with multiple subjects working with crazy invertible counterpoint and stretto, with mind crushing climax... It is one of the best fugues there is, and once you "understand" by repeated listening you realize how much of a genius Bach was, the score with colored subjects helps alot, even if you can't read:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MBsmFIZAuA
No one has surpassed Bach in fugal writing, not even Beethoven.

>>127172628
Correct.

>>127172651
For the record, Bach arguably has more complex fugues, but this one hits the spot like no other I've heard. It is pure drama.

>>127172628
>shuts eyes and ears
>NUH UH
ok bro

Metal still hasn't found their respective Bach or Coltrane (like most genres quite frankly) which is why it will always be manbaby music.

>>127172694
>shuts off brain
>babbles like a baboon
Airtight argument

>>127172704
>Bach
They never will.
Classical itself hasn't found another Bach. Closest we got was probably Reger technically speaking. But really no one was as expressive as Bach.

>>127172732
>classicaltard's ass-helmet is on so tight he completely misunderstand my post
Many a case.

>>127172770
>DURRRR BRAIN GO DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>127173489
A common utterance by many a classical snob filtered by metal.

>>127154870
anyone who trains using arban chicowitz or clarke is classically trained
whatever they do after is their own business

>>127173606
metal is just pop with diminished chords, grow up, virgin