Hans Hotter talks about Wagner edition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yojTI8llsM

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://rentry.org/classicalgen

Previous: >>127140975

Chopin represents the spirit of man in music.

Schumann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZW3FzM3IT0&list=OLAK5uy_l70MIOoZD6FoGePBme-uI99PSd9JLQ-Uo&index=4

>>127162016
100%, complete opposite for me. Karajan is too slow and Chailly is perfect. His Beethoven cycle is overall my favorite, but my favorite 1 and 3 are Mackerras (3 can also be Gielen's), 7 is Porcelain, and 9 is definitely Gielen (Chailly's is good but his Bass singer sucks)

>>127162062
>Porcelain
Porcelijn, damn it. With the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra.

https://youtu.be/up4_6UKrcxE

Zemlinsky, Schoenberg, Schreker.

>>127162170
Utterly hideous.

>>127162019 (OP)
Been listening to a lot of Scriabin
https://youtu.be/eOS0RJ15Wt8

And Jean-Marie Leclair
https://youtu.be/qORI876MiDc

>>127162170
why is Schonberg always making that face and why is Ringo Starr there

*bumps into you*

>>127162044
Salon slop

>>127162591
Thank you illiterate sister

>>127162352
>6'5"
I had no idea Klemperer was such a big guy.

>>127162352
So he was a manlet on top of being a composerlet?

Hovhaness: Prelude and Quadruple Fugue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc2sa3mOZdo&list=RDYc2sa3mOZdo&start_radio=1&ab_channel=IFiamminghi%28TheOrchestraofFlanders%29-Topic

i love classical music but i hate this general and you dumb faggots.

Schubert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO8hhzbLrCg&list=OLAK5uy_kbCRIKaGkT0TH4wbi2rbXUTC5q-R-EpN0&index=3

>>127163281
this general has been a lot better since the week-long 4chan pause

saloon slop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mJ8nrkE5Ck

Every time the American music appears in Dvorak's 9th I can't help but cringe. Anyone else dislike American 'folk' music? It's just so sentimental and corny.

>>127162817
what's even more incredible about this piece is the fact that it was one of his earliest works. Most composers, including Mozart spent years struggling to master counterpoint but for Hovhaness it appeared to come naturally.

>>127163904
no I quite like it

>>127158635
sheesh, I been tellin' ya'll he has the best 5th for ages now.

>>127162016
I agree with you but don't let the fast tempo "gotta go fast!" Beethoven anons hear you say that

Let me guess, you need more?

>>127162170
They look like Mafiosos.

>>127163886
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqAMGjH4QFw

>>127164435
I read that a Jew wrote all of Scott Joplin’s music.

>>127164515
jews rarely get the credit they deserve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiWNWTKzLIs

feelin' choral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ot-39GX5Hc&list=OLAK5uy_nSkLNSu-Owc-16oGQIWJe_ErMTNgkJ2n8&index=8

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNtQPL-n_OM
My new favorite prelude and fugue from WTC.

Giulini and Karajan have the two best recordings of Brahms 2

just the other day I was thinking to myself, "why isn't there an ensemble named The Brahms Quartet," and lo and behold, when I feel like checking to see for any new recordings of Rachmaninoff's piano trios, I see this

>>127164761
This makes me feel like the music is physically assaulting me. What does it feel like like you?

> be dvorak
> write 8 humoresques
> only the 7th one is popular

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT73_TD33hA

>>127164761
I like the G minor fugue the most from the clavier.

>>127163904
and what music would that be? i'm not american so i don't notice anything different in it

For me, it's Rachmaninoff's Etudes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0zv1KsE0tk&list=OLAK5uy_ms_zqe1CheGiUEYRLCtQ8aemtGlAyQ-Us&index=13

Pachelbel o algo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0cqePmetM

What's the difference between an etude and a prelude? With my ears, I can tell etudes generally sound more structurally robust, with more development, but I wouldn't be able to directly explain how.

>>127166116
something comes after a prelude unless you one of those soppy romantics where the appetizer is the meal like some millennial

>>127166127
>unless you one of those soppy romantics where the appetizer is the meal like some millennial
damn you got me pegged

>>127162044
so true chopincel

my new thing is before I embark on listening through any new Beethoven piano sonatas cycle, I look at the tracktimes of their Hammerklavier, and if the first movement is under eleven minutes, I pass. Sorry, Jonathan Biss.

>>127166178
They arent doublebeat-maxing

>>127166178
criteria that exclude schnabel have to be pretty worthless

>>127166186
This one, on the other hand, is too divine for our mortal ears.

>>127166199
schnabel schnabel schnabel, schnabel might as well be Beethoven to some of you guys here

favorite Beethoven Sonata cycle?

is Pachelbel worth getting into? all i know is that one that is always used for weddings.

Gloria and The Four Seasons are the only good Vivaldi works.

>>127166552
Gilels, Arrau, and Backhaus are my three.

>>127166556
begin with Pachelbel and end with Reger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX5WFvy53do

>>127166604
which Arrau, didn't he record them a few times?
the one i have is pic related.

>>127166619
That one and this one are the same, so you've got the right one.

>>127166605
what are some essential Reger works to get started?

>>127166717
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGZVSHe28co

>>127166116
Prelude are short pieces that can be almost whatever, mostly in tenar/binary forms. Etudes are like preludes, but more virtuosic and technically demanding, meant to help the pianist develop techniques. None of them exhibit development in the formal sense.
>>127166127
Thank you illiterate

Beethoven's Choral Fantasy: amazing or kitsch? Life-affirming or tacky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S9TFdp51wo

>>127167034
A little flabby but interesting.

>>127167038
I'm surprised there aren't more works like it. And not just for piano, but for string quartet would be dope too. I understand a lot of these pieces had to be written for home-consumption-and-performance, but was the use of vocals that forbidden? I know the previous generations of artists viewed strict forms and rules differently than we do, but still, lame.

great, I used a Bernstein pic for a new WWOYM thread on /lit/ and now I'm in an argument with an anon

>>127167055
Songs were always very popular but works with piano accompaniment (even two pianos) were always going to be more playable by 19th century middle class daughters than a work demanding a full string quartet.

>>127167067
I meant specifically with a chorus like that Op. 80. Of course lieder and solo sacred works existed.

>>127167063
I'm just memeing anon don't take it so seriously. I see Bernstein I insult him, it's that simple.

>>127167089
I just wanted to comment on it, and that seemed the easiest post to make here.

> I see Bernstein I insult him, it's that simple.
Respectable.

>>127167063
kill yourself you fucking cock sucker.

>>127167109
>caption: a bernsteinchad stealing anon's gf

>>127167131
shitting up one board isn't enough for you is it, faggot? just fuck off back to >>>/lgbt/ .

When I first got into classical, I believed two things: 1) that Bernstein and Barenboim were the same person, and 2) that this amalgamation was some awful pop-conductor because I had heard his name before on TV shows and other mediums, and that's generally not a good sign, so I avoided anything with their name on it for the longest time.

>>127164120
Yes, I need a first-tier orchestra.

>>127167157
Bernstein has a handful of great recordings but otherwise you weren't missing out on much.

Ravel: Ma mère l'oye, M.60 - For Piano Duet, M.60: 5. Le jardin féerique, by the Labèque sisters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahxrngICxKs

I feel so tired lately

favorite recording of Rachmaninov's The Bells?

>>127167175
Lovely piece, but the orchestral version sounds so much better

https://youtu.be/8RXM7_cKmVQ?si=8TU2W2HFE2HSDwZ8

>>127167190
I like Rattle's.

>>127167212
Not listening, fella, Hurwitz doesn't like Rattle very much

>>127167235
lol well I guess I'd opt for Jansons

>>127166999
ty. are they still being written by contemporary composers? and nice full house digits

>>127167235
>>127167242
His favorite "The Bells" IS actually Rattle believe it or not
https://youtu.be/4slMUSyULHI?si=QxXTq-XksdALS-g3&t=1165

>>127167330
My taste is too good.

>dancing-anon.gif

>>127167330
Is it? Then so it's mine

>>127167343
Did you try the Jansons one? His Rachmaninoff is pretty damn great. Same with his Tchaikovsky. Easily in the top 3? 5 at worst cycles for both.

now playing, continuing with the Kondrashin Shostakovich cycle

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 4 in C Minor, Op. 43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvKvkmx3bE&list=OLAK5uy_lQBR3FCd6tOV1MbF-z22d23DrqYr3bvq0&index=8

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 in D Minor, Op. 47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTbS-jENJn8&list=OLAK5uy_lQBR3FCd6tOV1MbF-z22d23DrqYr3bvq0&index=12

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 6 in B Minor, Op. 54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th0F5XUPqSM&list=OLAK5uy_lQBR3FCd6tOV1MbF-z22d23DrqYr3bvq0&index=15

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lQBR3FCd6tOV1MbF-z22d23DrqYr3bvq0

Kondrashin's aggressive, forward-propulsion approach and authentically Russian sound has worked well for the first four symphonies, and I'm sure it will for the 5th and 6th as well. Where I begin to have some skepticism is whether or not it'll retain its wonderful quality in the musically epic and emotionally broad works in the 7th, 8th, 10th, 11th, and 12th, where at times you must stop the train and smell the roses or sing of human tragedy. Of course, Kondrashin is a wonderful conductor who I've heard do it all, so I've got faith.

>>127167383
Shostakovich's music is too scary for me

>>127167402
A lot of modernism has that quality. His 5th is pretty accessible, or perhaps try starting with some of his non-symphonies like the cello concertos or sonata, violin concertos or sonata, 24 Preludes and Fugues, piano concertos, and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdC0zvXof_g&list=OLAK5uy_kUiX_y2cvUqdruOV-9qk8dzPfxEQ2OpA0&index=1

Now that's just some good fun!

>>127167235
Hurwitz is genuinely clueless about music

>>127166127
kek based

is Schoenberg worth getting into? let's forget about his whole talmudic "jewish supremacy" shit and just focus on the music.

>>127167420
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>127166178
>if they play the piece correctly, I pass
>>127165049
I like Abbado's quite a bit

what do we think of this goy? better than Hurwitz? worse than Hurwitz? Straighter than Hurwitz? gayer than Hurwitz??
https://youtu.be/K4Ccx_i0hac?si=UawNfO6fM23vAXI5

>>127167429
His music is worth giving a try, yes. Of course you'll want to be solidly familiar with preceding classical music first, and maybe wait until Berg's Violin Concerto and Webern's orchestral stuff start sounding good to you, or not, up to you.

>>127167437
2014 called
>>127167429
yes. even if you don't like dodecaphonic music he has nice early pieces

>>127167429
Schoenberg is worth getting into but you should listen to his music in chronological order.

>>127167445
I prefer written reviews and articles. For example, check out these resources

index of recordings of Bruckner's 5th
https://www.musicweb-international.com/mwork_index/bruckner_sy5.htm

a general survey
https://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Apr09/Bruckner_Symphonies_Article.htm

masterindex for more
https://www.musicweb-international.com/comp-idx/bruckner.htm

>>127167470
i don't feel like reading them right now, can you read them to me?

>>127167445
>>127167451
for example, from the survey

and then whenever you're considering trying a given recording, use the other index to check out their reviews of it, or use that to find a recording initially

>>127167476
anon, I...

FArtwangler vs Szell?

>>127167491
They're vastly different. Between the two, I prefer Szell.

>>127167498
>I prefer Szell
source?

>>127167503
It was revealed to me in a dream.

>>127167253
I don't care about contemporary composers.
>>127167445
Does he have a New York Times article about him?
Yeah, thought so.

>>127167508
is that you?

>>127167514
No, the kitty was my anonymous source.

let's check out Chailly's Beethoven 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLgae8qXw8s&list=OLAK5uy_mUzoNsrpCzUNVm6559OeuFv1_Oo6FZKas&index=42

>>127167518
i meant the fan

The two modern Beethoven piano sonata cycles I'm looking at listening through right now are Louis Lortie and Jean-Efflam Bavouzet. From the reviews and a cursory listen, Lortie's belongs more to the romantic, tragic approach whereas Bavouzet is classical and placid, even Haydnesque. Here's the first movement of their Appassionata, curious what you guys think:

Lortie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03kQkau3B1k&list=OLAK5uy_nti8_sK69i59DEk8paJTX7xOALi6-NUHc&index=76

Bavouzet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZeCwYo__MM&list=OLAK5uy_lSiE0ScU7ZotnHCk0TjUTp7JCPHapQlpE&index=77

I do recall one anon who said a while back the only cycle they outright vehemently hated was Lortie's, lol, so we'll see.

>>127167702
Brahmsesque vs. Haydnesque

It's good that people are starting to attack the 4 honorary bogbillies (Liszt, Berlioz, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky) and realizing their music is bad. Who knows, it might be a vital stepping stone to leaving the bog.

>>127167844
No one is attacking these 4 composers, who are very good in their own right, by the way.

>>127167864
>t. thinks McDonald's is a restaurant

>>127167887
McDonalds is goyslop and not real food, lil mentally challenged bro.

>>127167844
>Liszt
>bad
Say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens

>>127167445
His recommendations aren’t as good

Essential Bartok? I've listened to Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, The Miraculous Mandarin, and a bunch of short piano pieces (e.g. Allegro Barbaro, Romanian/Bulgarian Dances, Hungarian Songs, Out of Doors, etc.). Which string quartets are essential? I'm not huge on these, but I like Debussy's, Ravel's, and some of Shostakovich's.

Same ask for Stravinsky. I've heard the core 3 ballets and Appolon Musagetes. Planning on listening to La Histoire du Soldat and Mavra sometime soon.

>>127167844
modernism is not classical, prove me wrong

>>127167890
yes just like those composers are slop and not real composers

>>127168119
damn they must fucking SUCK then

>>127168344
Why do you insist on shitting up the thread anon?

>>127168392
Cry me a river

Mahler 4 blows every single Brahms symphony out of the water

>>127168563
>

>>127168628
Unironically. The first movement's development section is better than any that Brahms wrote, very impressive feat of composition

Chopin invented Romance. The mastery of the piano is the mastery of sex and the emotions. When I listen to Chopin I become Napoleon conquering Europe and having sex with women at the same time. The aristocrat of the Romantic Period.

>>127163824
Not really.

Chopin invented vaginas

>>127168699
this isn't a matter of opinion

>>127168909
Recent /classical/ was best during late 2022/23, not coincidentally when it was the slowest it had been in years.

>>127168440
Drink my piss

>>127169007
Composers you like will be called slop and there's nothing you can do about it

>>127169037
Composers you like will be called slop and there's nothing you can do about it

>>127168225
>bartok

Piano concertos, Bluebeard's Castle, string quartets 3 - 6

>stravinsky

The Rake's Progress

This thread is lacking a certain man


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PU50tF5kOLE&list=PLSAcT-loHFCkQrcCYbGmzPTuJ8b5Mu7N5&index=10&pp=iAQB

>>127168676
Salon slop

>>127167429
Whoa whoa whoa hold the fort- what’s all this about his “talmudic "jewish supremacy””

top 10 oratorios?

I did not care for Erlkönig

>>127169383
Die himmlische Reise - Alaric Voss
Эхo дpeвнocти (Echo of the Ancients) - Seraphina Lark
Harmony of the Spheres - Benedict Thorne
Пocлeдний paccвeт (The Last Dawn) - Isolde Fenwick
Flüstern des Waldes - Cyrus Eldridge
The Triumph of Light - Elowen Brightwood
Гoлoca зaбытых (Voices of the Forgotten) - Gideon Ashford
Der Tanz der Jahreszeiten - Mirabel Frost
Songs of the Ocean Deep - Thaddeus Gale
Der Geist der Berge - Lysander Vale

is Krautrock modern classical?

Why does this unwashed neanderthal play absolutely everything at x2 the normal tempo?

>>127169428
What???

>>127169481
Gotta go fast

>>127169482
you don't like them?

>>127169383
Bach - St Matthew Passion
Bach - St John Passion
Handel - Messiah
Handel - Israel in Egypt
Haydn - The Creation
Mendelssohn - Paulus
Mendelssohn - Elijah
Liszt - Christus
Elgar - The Dream of Gerontius
Vaughan Williams - Sancta Civitas

that's a first pass, probably should swap something. And this reminds me I need to finally listen to Dvorak's Saint Ludmila.

>Odysseus: Szenen aus der Odyssee für Chor, Solostimmen und Orchester (Odysseus: Scenes from the Odyssey for Choir, Solo Voices and Orchestra) is a secular oratorio (Op. 41) composed by Max Bruch and first performed in 1873.[1] It was Bruch's most successful work in his own lifetime.[2] German unification created a wave of patriotic euphoria across the country, and French war reparations created an economic windfall.[3]:131 The time was right for a new work with a theme of the love of homeland. It was popular in Germany and internationally and brought Bruch to Liverpool.[4]

interesting. Thoughts, Bruch, anon?

>Odysseus: Szenen aus der Odyssee für Chor, Solostimmen und Orchester (Odysseus: Scenes from the Odyssey for Choir, Solo Voices and Orchestra) is a secular oratorio (Op. 41) composed by Max Bruch and first performed in 1873.[1] It was Bruch's most successful work in his own lifetime.[2] German unification created a wave of patriotic euphoria across the country, and French war reparations created an economic windfall.[3]:131 The time was right for a new work with a theme of the love of homeland. It was popular in Germany and internationally and brought Bruch to Liverpool.[4]

interesting. Thoughts, Bruch-anon?

>>127169544
>Bach
>Elgar
>Williams
Meme composers.

>>127169587
Great contribution, anon.

>>127169592
Slop.

>>127169602
Yes, that's what you've been posting.

>>127169602
zoomer buzzword

>>127169488
>Gotta go fast
Unironically: dude was recently conducting in Russia, peaced out during the entracte to go conduct a song at a Putin-mandated "patriotic" event, then came back, delaying the performance of the second act by a half-hour

was Bernstein jewish?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMWbvd8nIQ&list=OLAK5uy_kmz6QoTQER-iog2Qj5Pt5vVsL7FkKbT7s&index=1

>Although I’m a “choral person”, I’m not a big fan of late 19th-century oratorios: too big, too serious, too drenched in grand and glorious effects (those drippy, dense, overwrought, ear-clogging harmonies!), not to mention that these things were often performed with choruses of hundreds and orchestras to match. You might as well just launch a raft of fireworks and let the good times roll. Okay, maybe that’s a bit much, but not far off. But as soon as you would like to just conveniently dismiss such works all in a flip of the hand, you hear something like Dvorák’s Svatá Ludmila (Saint Ludmila) and, darn it, you have to revise everything you thought you believed.

>This oratorio, from 1886, written for the Leeds Festival in England, is a work that will just consume the unsuspecting listener in its sheer loveliness, especially in the multitude of gorgeous choral movements, but also in the numerous arias, all of which are beautifully written and expertly realized in this first-rate recording. As you listen you can’t help at times thinking “Brahms”, mostly in the orchestration, but occasionally in the biggest, most dramatic choral sections. You may not think about it, but there’s a genius composer at work here, one who knows how to organize and develop a dramatic idea and set it loose to unfold seamlessly, telling its story without catch or awkward pause or musical inconsistency.

>>127169613
Yes I posted Bach and Elgar

>>127169664
>The story of course is of Ludmila, the patron saint of Bohemia, and in Dvorák’s setting focuses on her momentous conversion to Christianity. There are three scenes: in the courtyard of Mělník Castle; in the Beroun forests; and in Velehrad Cathedral. It impresses as operatic in design (indeed attempts have been made to stage the work), but it ultimately does best in concert form, shorn, as it is here, of some of its two-hour-plus original length (Naxos gives us a well-selected, satisfying hour and 41 minutes). If you’re a “choral person” but like me are a bit shy of big, unfamiliar “romantic” works, be not afraid. This piece, truly one of Dvorák’s finest large-scale works (and only oratorio), will please you, especially this performance, with its excellent chorus and uniformly superb vocal soloists (particular kudos to soprano Adriana Kohútková and bass Peter Mikuláš). An easy and enthusiastic recommendation. ---- David Vernier, 10-10 rating

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/dvoraks-gorgeous-saint-ludmila/

>>127169670
Liar! Fraudster! Swindler!

>>127169664
Y'know, this work might just be enough to boost Dvorak and edge out others to be my fifth favorite composer, rounding out my top five -- sorry Bach/Liszt/Schumann/Shostakovich/Tchaikovsky, you're now firmly 6-10.

>>127169510
Could you post links to those pieces?

>>127169383
I don't listen to them

>>127170424
It's the anon who posts nonsense jokes, I presume. Don't bother responding to them.

>>127169664
Dvorak Souls

Man I watched Karajan's Das Rheingold a while ago and I still haven't gotten around to Die Walkure yet. Is there ANY non-retarded video recording of it at all that I could watch?

>>127170444
who's that?

>>127170535
The anon who doesn't listen to classical and posts inane drivel like >>127170488 all day. They are mentally unwell. Just smile uneasily with pity and ignore them.

>>127170548
excellent observation schizosister

>>127170572
Thank you, just doing my part.

>>127170577
It sounds a little paranoid to me schizosister

Don't get why Jed Distler creams himself over Heinrich Schiff's cycle of Bach's Cello Suites. It's way too fast and doesn't sound that great.

>>127170588
Well, my nickname in college was James Jesus Angleton.

>>127170593
They all sound bad, it's a loathsome instrument poorly employed

now playing

Liszt: Piano Sonata in B Minor, S. 178
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS2xbG1RB7s&list=OLAK5uy_nXdc0kHRR5-cUnzVhYNrzCxPfKURhiH7g&index=1

start of Liszt: 3 Grand Concert Etudes, S. 144, R.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ASm8xGysGs&list=OLAK5uy_nXdc0kHRR5-cUnzVhYNrzCxPfKURhiH7g&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXdc0kHRR5-cUnzVhYNrzCxPfKURhiH7g

One can never have too many recordings of Liszt's Piano Sonata!

>>127169573
As far as I know, 1st violin concerto and Scottish Fantasy were his most famous pieces even during his day. I have not listened to op 41, and as you might already know I'm not a huge fan of choral works (with some exceptions), but I'll check it out and let you know if I really liked it.

>>127170444
>I presume
stop trying to sound like an anime character, you will never be one.

>>127170763
Nico NI?

Can i even get wagner if I don't know german

>>127170908
Yeah, there are bilingual libretti online to read along with.

>>127170946
What if you don't speak two languages?

>>127171092
You don't need to? You'll be able to see the German text side by side with the translation.

>>127171092
Anon, I...

>>127170600
Now are you sure that was your nickname? It wasn't something else?

>>127171092
the absolute state of wagnerlets

>>127167190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5NG9aax6gc&list=OLAK5uy_meKzH1X6NW15BpNM7G-wyj-hlDMOiEgdU&index=6

>>127171798
I checked out a book from the library which reminded me of your post,
>"Deep. Sinister. And they're all in on it together."
>"Too paranoid for you?"
>"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
---- Thomas Pynchon, Bleeding Edge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mmvr50lXBc&list=RD3mmvr50lXBc
Bach (CPE)

five hours of Kocsis performing Debussy? yes please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f-QGExI3_M&list=OLAK5uy_lKiugQns7VfLOIRJuDHsI1uCRoCkUj56o&index=39

>>127170588
Kids should be paranoid around you, noncesister
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoJJv1os0VY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzu6lmT5Fb8
VGH...

>/classical/ tells me liszt is shit
>he's actually good
what other cases are there like this?

>>127174103
Considering you listened to the Liszt haters, then I'd tell you Chopin, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev are all "actually" good.

>>127162019 (OP)
Violin: shunske sato
Piano: malcom bilson
Conductor: John Elliot Gardiner
Trio: Trio Stradivari
Quartet: modern quartets are better, don’t know why
Haydn and Mozart: Adam Fischer (HIP interpretation but not instruments)
Mozart piano concertos: malcom bilson and gardiner
Beethoven: orchestra revolutionare et romantique
Schubert: b’rock orchestra
Bach: anything by the Netherlands Bach society
Vivaldi: Apollo’s fire

>>127174205
OP:pleb

>>127174205
>Mozart piano concertos: malcom bilson and gardiner
This is one of the first sets I ever listened to when getting into classical and it almost made me give up the whole genre.

But I admire your consistency.

>>127169233
saloon slop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmSoy2PyFeA&t=2

now that the dust has finally settled, can we admit the romantics are all ageing like milk left in the sun

>>127174366
please stop projecting.

>>127174378
i have a very healthy hairline

>>127174393
German Romanticism (which is what I assume you're talking about) was just a movement to bring back aesthetic forms from the Gothic age (1100-1500) such as castles, primeval forests, quests, and so on. It was a reaction against the rise of industrial society and its causes.

confession: I love Shostakovich's symphonies, but they're also wonderfully effective at putting me to sleep. I might start listening to them at bedtime and see if it helps. I genuinely think listening to the 8th Symphony, I've fallen asleep maybe 40% of the time before listening through the entire thing.

>>127174366
ikr, if you never listen anything older than romantics then why even call yourself classical enjoyer?

>>127174467
I assume that anon was talking about music, anon.

>>127174366
I genuinely could not fathom being a fan of classical without being a fan of the romantics. You just listen to Mozart, Bach, Messiaen, and Ligeti all day or something? The fuck. Maybe some Buxtehude and Glass? It just sounds so limited and dreary.

>>127174522
The joke is on you. Romanticism was a traditionalist pre-renaissance movement. Wagner got his trademark technique of root motions by thirds directly from medieval choral music.

>>127174559
romanticism is nothing like medieval music and pre-rennasiance medieval music wasn't actually very good.

romanticism is gay cringe shit for pretentious faggots larping as musicians that directly lead to the death of classical music as a whole in the modern age.

>>127174578
>romanticism is nothing like medieval music

The New German school of Liszt, Wagner, Bruckner and so on was primarily inspired by medieval themes in reaction to the enlightenment and its consequences.

>>127174556
if you're going to listen to historical pop slop because actual classical music is too difficult for you then why stop there and just switch to listening modern pop instead. it's not like you do it for anything but clout of pretending to be all tasteful and classical.

>>127174621
>The New German school of Liszt, Wagner, Bruckner and so on was primarily inspired by medieval themes
it's still nothing like actual medieval music, just superficial stereotypical pretense

>>127174634
superficial to you perhaps but at the deepest level Wagner's harmonic progressions are more medieval (e.g. I-VI-III) than classical (e.g. I-V-I).

>>127174663
>harmonic progressions
>pre-rennaisance
you know even less than romantic larpers about medieval music, lol

ending the day with
<-----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDjpAXMQGYM&list=OLAK5uy_mi8JoW5WlgaeDfzs6rYrBRYPLG7Etu5pY&index=32

This recording takes 166 minutes!!

>>127174691
read Schillinger.

>>127174627
It's not even about quality. I don't think there's enough quantity in non-romantic classical for me to enjoy.

>>127174718
read when chord progressions became a thing before posting idiotic garbage like this.

>>127174751
>read when chord progressions became a thing

It's in Schillinger's harmony book. You should read it and come back.

Schillinger's history of root cycles or motions:

Cycle of 3rds - 15th century - Medieval
Cycle of 7ths - 16th century - Renaissance
Cycle of 7ths - 17th to mid 18th - Baroque
Cycle of 5ths - mid 18th to 1830 - Classical
Cycle of 3rds - 1830 to 1890 - Romantic

>>127174781
bro just stop already, you're seriously coping about 19th century bardcore

also schilinger might be an ok composer but he's a know nothing historian

>>127174879
>15th century - Medieval
>16th century - Renaissance
as if you anyone needed more evidence the guy was retarded

>>127174923
the Middle Ages ended in 1517 so Schillinger is correct.

So I'm listening to music while browsing my phone, reading the comments section of a post, click on a link someone posts during the discussion, and begin reading the wikipedia page, and it only strikes me 20 minutes into it: I'm reading about the Siege of Leningrad while listening to Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7, 'Leningrad.' Jesus, I didn't know how horrific the siege was. it lasted over 900 days and nights!? Over a million deaths? Christ.

>>127174957
I almost feel guilty to enjoying the symphony so much when it's linked to such horrific suffering.

>>127174945
even if you consider this date then rennaisance started in 1400, if not earlier

cherrypicking the most rennaisance period at the very dawn of middle ages is the most blatant cherrypicking you could do. what absolute disingenous faggot mongrels were the romanticists, truly a perfect match for enlightenment posers

>>127174974
it's russians suffering so it's 100% deserved and adds to the atmosphere

>>127175037
>dawn
dusk, duh

>>127175056
Hmm, I suppose that alleviates it a tad...

>>127175037
perhaps "Late Gothic" (circa 1400 - 1500) would be a more accurate term to use. Regardless, the medieval world as it is stereotypically known only began to die out with the rise of Protestantism and mass literacy in 1517.

>>127175138
>perhaps "Late Gothic" (circa 1400 - 1500) would be a more accurate term to use.
it's still retarded through and through. there's literally nothing accurate about it
>Regardless, the medieval world as it is stereotypically known only began to die out with the rise of Protestantism and mass literacy in 1517.
this may be true in a sense but rennaisance is literally an inserparable part of late medieval period. in fact the rise of humanism foundational to the rennaisance goes back to the mid 14th century, aka 1300s.

>>127175160
I agree with you but when musicologists speak of renaissance music they're usually referring to the 16th century (Palestrina, Tallis, Lassus, etc.) even though the era of Renaissance sculpture and painting began in the mediterranean a century earlier.

>>127175287
it's not just mediterranean, in Italy it started almost 2 centuries prior but in the rest of Europe, including Germany, it's also been undeniably present by the 15h century. the allusions to Gothic architecture, which is the only valid and appropriate use of the word "Gothic" in relation to the 15th century are complete bogus since it was actively waning and being replaced by rennaisance architecture at the time but continued to survive well into the early modern era all the way until the 18th century even without counting the late finished medieval period projects like the Cologne Cathedral. it's the least appropriate name for that period and was used only because retarded romanticist nationalists wanted to shoehorn some german-sounding term in there.

it's also the absolute peak of hypocrisy and ignorance to compose polyphonic music(doubly so using completely modern and ahistorical methods like chort progression) as a way to imitate the middle ages prior to rennaisance when it's exactly with the rennaisance that polyphonic music actually took off.

>>127175362
i'm using the term "polyphonic music" to mean actually harmonious polyphony with the voices matched togetherrather than just droning or parallelism in the octave or the fifth that's significantly older, if that wasn't clear.

>>127175362
it would be better if Mediterranean Europe and Northern Europe were considered to be separate civilizations because their histories and cultures do not neatly line up at all and the only common ground they have ever had was Catholicism for approximately 500 years.

>>127175475
>it would be better if Mediterranean Europe and Northern Europe were considered to be separate civilizations because their histories and cultures do not neatly line up at all
that's completely wrong . they share literally the same foundational works, used the same common language, commonly imitated each other and shared much of the same cultural virtues, flaws and were deeeply interconnected through both trade and war. prior to the hanseatic league the north was just generally lagging behind and following central and southern trends but even after they developed their own domestic environment and culture they were still very intertwined with the south.

need i remind you that the moment French and Germans got powerful enough to have a centralized independent state they started larping as Romans, the latter of which lasted all the way into the 19th century?

>>127175530
>used the same common language
common is the wrong word, they used the same academic language which the elites also used in their daily life, that's the opposite of common language but it was in common use across all the educated, powerful or wealthy elites across Europe, both secular and especiallly religious.

>>127175475
>was Catholicism for approximately 500 years
and let's not pretend that Catholicism was instantly ended in the North with the appearance of Protestantism, half of Germany remained Catholic and most German Crhistians are Catholic even today.

Hello Friends. This is Dave Hurwitz executive editor at Classics Today with Finnster…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQHRPFz4Gw

Power symphonies like Mahler 2. It just never lets go, at least for me.
Every second you're bombarded with power music, never letting you rest.
I love that shit probably because my zoomer brain is already fried as well. But I would love more symphonies like that.

>>127175711
>>127175548
>>127175530
>>127175475
>>127175362
>>127175287
>>127175160
>>127175138
>>127175037
Hey Relax Guy

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KkRXk8qkZ0

>>127175711
>>127175548
>>127175530
>>127175475
>>127175362
>>127175287
>>127175160
>>127175138
>>127175056
>>127174945
Relax, Guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh6gSLInIXo

>>127175949
you should post something relaxing instead of a cringe meme song next time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn52A6wK1es

>>127176054
Gothic architecture was brought from Scandinavia to Western Europe by the Goths, Guy.

>>127176095
Gothic architecture was invented in France and has nothing to do with Goths, fuckwit.

>>127176131
Hey Relax, Guy. It was brought to France by Germanic peoples (Descendants of the Goths).

>>127176148
Hey get fucked over backwards illiterate retard. It wasn't brought to France, it originated there and had absolutely zero things to do with goths or their descendants, which Germans aren't .

>>127176157
Fuck you, Guy. You don’t know what you are talking about. Gothic architecture features vaulting systems, inspired by the natural forms of trees and forests. If you weren’t so ignorant, Buddy, you would know from Tacitus that the sacred areas of the Germanic peoples were tree groves; that’s why they made their churches resemble like trees, and filled them with fantastical stone creatures that can only be found in the Hyrcanian forest.

>>127176353
>vaulting systems, inspired by the natural forms of trees and forests
this is delusional babble, it's developed from and directly inspired by the preceding forms of Romanesque architecture in the shape, structure and layout, with the addition of architectural elements like pointed arches and flying buttresses, neither of which have any previous historical precedent or appearance among any German tribes, let alone Goths.

the whole idea that Christians would directly draw inspiration from pagan symbols is just as preposterous.

you should kill yourself asap, you're an absolute embarrassment to everyone around you.

>>127176415
>Germanic tribes*

>>127176415
Hey Fuck you buddy, don’t be like that. Get the fuck out of here. Gothic architecture comes from the racial memory of the Germanic peoples.
Relax G*y. Take a rest.

feel free to rate and hate but I think the period between 1350 and 1700 was one of contemporary developments which eventually became reconciled:

1100 to 1350 - crusades followed by wars with steppe empires

Side A:

1350 to 1450 - transitional period, black death to the fall of Byzantium, early renaissance
1450 to 1500 - mid renaissance
1500 to 1600 - late renaissance

Side B:

1200 to 1400 - mid gothic
1400 to 1500 - late gothic
1500 to 1600 - reformation and counter-reformation

Sides A and B:

1600 to 1700 - puritanism vs the baroque
1700 to 1800 - reconciliation, the era of enlightenment

>>127176451
the only racial memory you have is your mom whoring herself to gypsies you absolute troglodyte. Gothic archietecture was invented, developed and originated wholly in France, period. this is an absolute historical fact and it's silly to even argue against it.

hang yourself and never appear here again.

>>127162019 (OP)
Are there any good podcasts on Classical music or guides to specific composers offering a bit of history an context to the pieces?

>>127176498
read a book you tard.

>>127176474
eyyyyy fuck you, Friend. You need to relax. You are an ignorant baboon. The Franks settled France; they were Germanic peoples. Charlemagne spoke a Germanic language. He was a German and had German blood…just like the first Goth architects. All Germanic peoples are descended from Goths. All Goths are descended from Odin. So fuck you Guy, you lose. Not try and relax.

>>127176532
>The Franks settled France; they were Germanic peoples.
Yes.
>He was a German and had German blood
>All Germanic peoples are descended from Goths
Completely and utterly wrong.
>just like the first Goth architects
there were no goth architects, they literally lived in mud huts and were chased out by huns and saxons before the middle ages even started.

kill yourself you worthless tranny, join the 41%

>>127176558
Those mud huts had flying buttresses, guy.

>>127176591
lmao

Top G hours in /classical/. post some Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErIFOYTOX5M

Sell me Hindemith

>>127168326
romanticism is not baroque, prove me wrong

>>127176473
if you meant to attempt some hegelian analysis like this you should drop it because it's complete nonsense and can be used to justify and create essentially any conclusion out of thin air and has no rational basis.

besides that puritanism wasn't a common trend and was largely limited to England and so had no impact on the rest of Europe.

the whole gothic shtick should just go straight into the garbage because it just doesn't belong in a serious historical discussion and has no bearing or relation to the rennaisance or medieval music, it's just a dumb architecture term.

neither does rennaisance have any particular restraint to it, it's not quite as opulent as baroque but still way more ornate and grand than classicism is and they are all just the flow of general trends during their respective periods.

enlightenment is likewise a highly loaded term that tries really hard to establish its superiority over its predcessors, completely undeserved in my opinion. it has even less to do with music of the period which corresponds to classicism, when despite the fart huffing French tirades was dominated by Austrians who weren't particularly inspired by it, just again following the changing trends and instruments. it never ended there either and continued changing onwards in a different way.

i personally think that classicism period was a step down in complexsity, depth and dimension which distinguish classical music in general to this day but at least it streamlined music structure and introduced new effective and straightforward, if simple, ways to create music. it was also carried hard by geniuses like Haydn and Mozart.

>>127176902
your analogy falls flat because classicism and classical are different things

>>127176911
Hey, relax guy.

>>127176921
fuck off,

>>127168225
>Essential Bartok?
Gonna go ahead without reading res of post or replies:
Kossuth
Violin Concerto No 1
Bluebeard's Castle
The Wooden Prince
String Quartet No 2
A Csodálatos Mandarin
Sonatas nº1 & 2 for violin and piano
Piano Concerto No 1
Piano Sonata Sz 80
Szabadban Sz 81
String Quartet No 3 & 4
Piano Concerto No 2
Cantata Profana
Transylvanian Dances For Orchestra
Hungarian Peasant Songs For Orchestra
String Quartet No 5
Music For Strings, Percussion And Celesta
Violin Concerto No 2
Mikrokozmosz books 5-6
Sonata For Two Pianos And Percussion
Contrasts For Clarinet, Violin, And Piano
String Quartet No 6
Concerto For Two Pianos, Percussion And Orchestra
Concerto For Orchestra
Concerto For Viola And Orchestra
Piano Concerto No 3

now playing saloon slop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBtFQKM6gU

>>127176916
Classicism is the following of ancient Greek or Roman principles and style in art and literature. Classical is a period of music and other arts roughly from the mid-18th century to the early 19th

>>127176951
wrong, classicism is also the name for a period in classical music that you described, while classical music as a whole envelops all the periods from rennaisance including baroque, classicism and so on.

>>127176887
Please someone who likes Hindemith explain what's so good about him and why his music is worth listening to today.

>>127176972
Wrong. Classicism is not limited to neither music nor the period, and it's something that has been happening semiregularly since the late middle ages, especially in literature and pictoric arts. "Classical" as an umbrella term is a faulty term invented and perpetuated by the recording industry in an attempt to easily categorise all academic music under one rubric so that they can sell more "greatest classical hits" to the middle-class plebs. Congrats, you got played by Mammon.

>>127176997
>Classicism is not limited to neither music nor the period, and it's something that has been happening semiregularly since the late middle ages, especially in literature and pictoric arts.
Sure, but it's particularly prominent as a trend in the mid-late 18th century and after. For older cases there are terms like Romanesque that are more specific to the time period.
>"Classical" as an umbrella term is a faulty term invented and perpetuated by the recording industry in an attempt to easily categorise all academic music under one rubric
it's literally the name of this general. considering all classical music comes from a common Western tradition it's not an unfair categorization, even if it is reductionist when taken out of context.

>>127176973
his theories are more important than his music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPY7i5zDdH8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Bva004_Pg

real nigga hours right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX_hZPRRERA

>>127174578
>romanticism is gay cringe shit for pretentious faggots larping as musicians that directly lead to the death of classical music as a whole in the modern age.
Romanticism is the music and culture at our highest g and highest inspiration which meant nothing in the future OR the past could match its greatness and it is evidenced by the music itself.

>>127177783
the most style over substance genre from a time when the utterly irrelevant and insubstantial elites were desperately searching for something to adorn themselves with

>>127177821
>style over substance
This doesn't make much sense.
As I said, it was the music produced at the peak of our general intelligence, which could mean (and it does) not everybody is capable of understanding its greatness, you aren't very bright.

>>127177836
>This doesn't make much sense.
it makes all the sense if you're not the pretentious asshole that sniffs his farts and calls it music
>at the peak of our general intelligence
complete nonsense
>which could mean (and it does) not everybody is capable of understanding its greatness
not only is this a projection but it's also the exact pretense of the romantic music, a whimsical mediocrity that screams for external gratification and nothing else.

>>127174366
>>127174627
>>127174522
>>127174578
>>127177821
>>127177867
>>127174634
>>127174691
>>127174751
>>127174913
Romantic music is objectively more complex and serious than classical period music. If you do not like romantic music, you dislike extended development and prefer simplistic repetitive melodies and harmonies. Considering you like that, you might be better off at >>>/mu/ than /classical/. My deeply mentally stunted friend.

>>127177897
it's more complex emotionally but technically it's the same dumbed down shit except without Mozart. either way it's crude and primitive to earlier styles to the extreme and might as well be considered the equivalent of modern I–V–vi–IV pop progression.

you are the original soulless hipster and your music tastes are exactly that.

>>127177867
>it makes all the sense if you're not the pretentious asshole
No one pretends to like anything. This is all just intellectual insecurity and fear of missing out because you saw someone appreciate something you don't get.
>complete nonsense
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/126762916/#126769212
Empirically proven.
>not only is this a projection
"No u" isn't an argument, you are not very bright.

>>127177929
>No one pretends to like anything.
spoken like a true pretentious asshole
>Empirically proven.
>muh per capita
now remove third worlders and think again.
>"No u" isn't an argument
2deep4u isn't either. you're just a shitter without taste.

>>127177923
>y but technically it's the same dumbed down shit except without Mozart.
Objectively it is not, romantic music is more complex harmonically and melodically than any mozart piece.
>either way it's crude and primitive to earlier styles to the extreme and might as well be considered the equivalent of modern I–V–vi–IV pop progression.
You mean the "Mozart progression"?
>you are the original soulless hipster and your music tastes are exactly that.
Romantic music is more emotional, which requires a soul to understand. If you do not get romantic music, you simply do not have a soul. It's that simple

>>127177923
>I listen exclusively to normie approved composers that are technically simplistic and repetitive without ever digging deeper
You are the soulless one here.

>>127177971
>Objectively it is not, romantic music is more complex harmonically and melodically than any mozart piece.
objectively it's also infintely less inspired and every technicality it has is forced and burdensome.
>Romantic music is more emotional, which requires a soul to understand
it's completely one dimensional and superficial, the definition of soullessness.
> If you do not get romantic music
i get it though, more that you do. you get that you can just transmit basic feelings with it while padding it with useless glitter while i get it that you do it for clout of "listening to classical music"
>>127177978
>normie approved composers that are technically simplistic and repetitive
aka all romantic music there is. if there was something different it wouldn't be romantic.

>>127177923
>>127177999
>>127177978
Are you religious? Then soullessness does not exist. Are you an atheist? Then souls do not exist

>>127177923
You aren't meant to listen to classical and baroque period as music on it's own retard. It's simply stepping stones to romanticism. They're not worthwhile without romanticism and less complex than modern pop slop

>>127177999
>objectively it's also infintely less inspired and every technicality it has is forced and burdensome.
Thanks ESL

>>127177999
>objectively it's also infintely less inspired and every technicality it has is forced and burdensome
Yes, as classical period is very inspired (Either God or by literally nothing)

>>127178017
lmao, romanticism is a shit baroque music took. all it needed was one frog homosexual spamming dissonant chords for it to collapse into total autofellating nothingness where even bystanders can see that you're listening to empty pointless bullshit that can only distinguish itself through perversion of all the good that happened before it

>>127178022
you're the ESL here if you can't get that. i guess i should have added sound effects so your romantic brain could get it

>>127177999
>objectively it's also infintely less inspired and every technicality it has is forced and burdensome.
Meaningless word salad. Objectively quantify what make something "inspired"
>>it's completely one dimensional and superficial, the definition of soullessness.
Again, no argument to your case. You're just stating things for the sake of stating them. I can just say that classical period music is even more one dimensional and it'd be as valid as your argument. And I'd have more backing for it.
>i get it though, more that you do. you get that you can just transmit basic feelings with it while padding it with useless glitter while i get it that you do it for clout of "listening to classical music"
Someone who wants clout for "Listening to classical music" would not listen to Wagner, Bruckner, or Mahler whose works exceed hours in length with form far more intricate than anything from the classical period. They'd listen to composers like Mozart, Haydn and early Beethoven whose works are 20 minutes in length and far easier to understand

>>127178031
romantic music is completely forced, unimaginative and one dimensional, just hammering in a particular mood one after another leaving nothing to think about, just animalistic feelings of fear, anger or joy

>>127178049
>Wagner, Bruckner, or Mahler
Those are classical period vomposers tard. Wont read the rest of your post for thay alone

>>127177999
>aka all romantic music there is. if there was something different it wouldn't be romantic.
Bruckner is not simpler than Haydn. You're delusional if you think that.

>>127178038
>lmao, romanticism is a shit baroque music took
Objectively has little to no connection to Baroque music other than using the fugue.
>ll it needed was one frog homosexual spamming dissonant chords for it to collapse into total autofellating nothingness where even bystanders can see that you're listening to empty pointless bullshit that can only distinguish itself through perversion of all the good that happened before it
Thank you schizo sister, go to >>>/mu/ instead.

>>127178049
>Objectively quantify what make something "inspired"
naturally and comprehensively flowing together
>Someone who wants clout for "Listening to classical music" would not listen to Wagner, Bruckner, or Mahler whose works exceed hours in length with form far more intricate than anything from the classical period. They'd listen to composers like Mozart, Haydn and early Beethoven whose works are 20 minutes in length and far easier to understand
>It's long therefore it's complex
i guess i did misunderstand just how deep the superficial nature of romantic music runs

>>127178051
>>127178045
>>127177999
>>127177948
>>127177923
Not very /classical/. Maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>127178051
>>127178051
>completely forced, unimaginative and one dimensional, just hammering in a particular mood one after another leaving nothing to think about, just animalistic feelings of fear, anger or joy
But enough about the Classical period

>>127178072
>Objectively has little to no connection to Baroque music
yes, the point was that it might as well be rap compared to it
>Thank you schizo sister, go to >>>/mu/ instead.
keep crying, i'm sure you could find some very whiny romantic clattering to fit how you feel

>>127178081
Not very /classical/. Maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>127178078
classical period at least left something to imagination, romantic period is just ambience spam posing as composed pieces

>>127178085
having a meltdown, sister? maybe try listening to some actual classical music to calm your nerves. all that random piano hammering got you way too agitated.

>>127178073
>naturally and comprehensively flowing together
Ah, like the works of Brahms, Schumann, Wagner, Dvorak, etc?
>It's long therefore it's complex
>i guess i did misunderstand just how deep the superficial nature of romantic music runs
Your reading comprehension is only matched by chatGPT in how shit it is. I never said that long=complex. I said that a person who wants clout for listening to a certain type of music would not listen to works that exceed hours in length to do so. The average normalfag cannot even get through a rock album so they would naturally listen to music from the period that is most formally simplistic, short and easy to understand.

>>127178091
>>127178100
Not very /classical/. Maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

>>127178110
having a meltdown, sister? maybe try listening to some actual classical music to calm your nerves. all that random piano hammering got you way too agitated.

>>127178091
Good job on somehow never having listened to a piece of romantic music while making absolute statements about them. Please showcase to us a romantic piece that is "ambience spam"

>>127178114
Not very /classical/. Maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?

Classical period is normiecore

>>127178108
>I never said that long=complex. I said that a person who wants clout for listening to a certain type of music would not listen to works that exceed hours in length to do so
you're literally boasting about hour long compositions for clout here. the irony of all this is completely lost on you. just like a hipster would pay $2000 to go to a restaurant where waiters spill his food on the table so do you get to pretend it's high art.

>>127178117
any liszt piece ever, for starters

NEW THREAD

>>127178148
>>127178148
>>127178148

>>127178136
>you're literally boasting about hour long compositions for clout here.
Are you retarded or autistic? I am saying that A NORMALFAG WITH SHIT ATTENTION SPAN WOULD NOT LISTEN TO A PIECE THAT EXCEEDS HOURS IN LENGTH
This isn't boasting, this is objective fact that a normalfag has shit attention span. Are you sincerely delusional enough to claim otherwise?

>>127178160
a hipster would absolutely do that though, just for clout of boasting about it. note how i never called you a normalfag, just a poser.

>>127178142
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D2BOho8yoE

List the timecodes where this "ambience spam" happens

>>127178168
>a hipster would absolutely do that though,
A hipster would still pick works by well known composers who make easier to understand works. Hipstercore are composers like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, every single established name. As a hipster wouldn't care about the music itself and moreso what he looks like. And normies know those composers as "smart people music or something"

>>127176931
You are going to have an aneurysm if you keep typing.

>>127178172
28th second, 40th second, 2:13, 4:13, that's just first 5 mintures

it's all just one ambience spam without any movement, then a long pause, then another hammer with a different mood

it's basically a movie ambience soundboard, not a composition

>>127178183
>A hipster would still pick works by well known composers
lmao, no. if anything the more obscure and exclusive it is the more hipster clout it gets because it's so niche and special.
>As a hipster wouldn't care about the music itself and moreso what he looks like
you got that part right

>>127178201
to be fair at least around the 3 minute mark there is some flow to the melody for a moment in there. too bad it fails to get anywhere and just stops abruptly again

>>127178201
>28th second
It is literally just developing on a theme in the same way Beethoven would have. Tell us more about your lack of musical understanding.
>40th second
Which is a restatement of the initial theme in a different key. Why would the initial statement not be ambience but the restatement be? Do you consider exposition repeats ambience? In which case, I have some bad news for you...
>2:13
Again, developmental passage.
>4:13
Again, not ambience but a developmental passage

Do you consider development ambience? What do you think then of this, by your oh so beloved classical period composers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grYVeV84RlY

At 6:05

>>127178209
>lmao, no. if anything the more obscure and exclusive it is the more hipster clout it gets because it's so niche and special.
Like the ones from the classical period? Most of the romantic period is pretty established. It's classical period music that often didn't get recorded until years later

>>127178236
for there to be development there needs to be actual flow, rather than an abrupt stop. notice how mozart's music actually goes somewhere. this isn't a development, it's just a slam after slam of independent ambience. these phrases are completely unrelated and don't add anything to each other.

Not liking romantic music is a sign that you lack a soul

>>127178241
>Like the ones from the classical period? Most of the romantic period is pretty established. It's classical period music that often didn't get recorded until years later
unless we're talking about hipsters from the 18th century it has zero bearing on the topic

>>127178252
romantic music and its developments are the core reason classical music is relegated to either boring stuff for nerds or pretentious meaningless nonsense outright in public consciousness.

>>127178252
>Soul
What is that?

Liking romantic music is a sign you lack a brain

>>127178269
Good job showcasing your real reason
>IT DOESNT MAKE ME LOOK COOL
You care more about image than the music itself. Proving his point

>>127178281
i don't care about the image, i care about the fact that classical music is dead and we're bound to just listen to old stuff for the forseeable future.

>>127178249
>for there to be development there needs to be actual flow
Which there was, popbrain
> rather than an abrupt stop.
So you cannot handle drama in your music? Sad to see that you have autism.
>notice how mozart's music actually goes somewhere.
It actually doesn't. After that brief section of development it goes back to restating the same handful of themes again that had already been repeated on end for 6 minutes at that point
> this isn't a development, it's just a slam after slam of independent ambience.
It's not independent, it is literally thematically connected to what was before.
>these phrases are completely unrelated and don't add anything to each other.
It seems that you are genuinely deaf, retarded or have no understanding of form whatsoever if you are unable to follow along to something that simplistic and uncomplicated

>>127178275
Romantic music isn’t particularly cerebral…

>>127178289
You literally appealed to public consciousness in your very last post. Shut the fuck up you embarrassing retard rofl

>>127178201
>>127178249
Alright you're definitely baiting, that was pretty funny but you dropped the ball at the end

>>127178290
>Which there was, popbrain
nope
>So you cannot handle drama in your music?
the only drama there is is how boring and awful this soundboard showcase was.
>It's not independent, it is literally thematically connected to what was before.
it isn't, they are completely unrelated.
>It seems that you are genuinely deaf, retarded or have no understanding of form whatsoever
i'm not deaf enough to have this separated garbage fused together

>>127178275
Yes

>>127178296
do you believe that public abandonment of contemporary classical music in the ealy 20th century is undeserved?

>>127178305
>nope
Not an argument
>the only drama there is is how boring and awful this soundboard showcase was.
Not an argument
>it isn't, they are completely unrelated.
So you are unable to recognize a melody when it's in a different key? Dude, you're actually retarded. You should probably stop listening to music.
>i'm not deaf enough to have this separated garbage fused together
You seem to listen to music in terms of rhythm rather than in terms of melody and harmony. Maybe hip hop would do you better

>>127178275
It’s a sign that you are an emotional train-wreck.

>>127178313
It wasn't in the only country of that period that matters (Soviet Union). After that fell, there was no society where this art could be produced. I would say that it was undeserved. But it is undeserved that we are forced to live under capitalism as well

>>127178319
>So you are unable to recognize a melody when it's in a different key?
there is no melody, just repetitive ambiance.
>Dude, you're actually retarded. You should probably stop listening to music.
not an argument.
>You seem to listen to music in terms of rhythm rather than in terms of melody and harmony.
this piece was so sectioned and jumbled it could pass as a hip hop piece if sped up. meanwhile i'll stick to music that can actually concoct a melody that has movement and doesn't stop 10 seconds in.

Liking romantic music is a sign you are trans

>>127178321
Nice samefagging kek

>>127178333
?

>>127178328
>It wasn't in the only country of that period that matters (Soviet Union)
lmao, there's no more culturally bankrupt nation than russia and there's no more culturally bankrupt version of russia than the ussr.

>>127178331
I have to agree with anon that you are baiting. Nobody can be this retarded

>>127178331
Mozart has no melody, just ambience

>>127178334
relax, guy

>>127178337
So you're capitalist scum. No reason to talk to someone who has no level of critical thought.

>>127178331
Lmao retarf

>>127178342
he quite obviously does. every single passage actually goes somewhere and transitions into others. you know, like music is supposed to do.

>>127178348
if communists had capacity for critical thought they'd kill thelseves for the betterment of our world long ago, especially once the disgusting inhuman cesspool of bile named soviet union finally croaked.

>>127178360
You will be dealt with when the revolution comes. You might as well kill yourself so you can rid the world of one capitalist, which'd make it objectively better

>>127178374
>You will be dealt with when the revolution comes
the only revolution that'll come is they close down your favorite coffee shop where your tranny fellows go to talk about how having a job is just so evil and unfair.

>>127178353
>you know, like music is supposed to do.
Objectively quantify why music is supposed to do that

>>127178353
>every single passage actually goes somewhere and transitions into others.
Like Liszts?

>127178383
Humor is the only tool capitalist scum has. Notice how they always call you a commie, but never wrong

>>127178385
because otherwise it ends up not as a composition but a soundboard like liszt's

anyone can slap ambience after ambience without any coherence and call it music.

>>127178403
can't be more wrong and disgusting than a commie. it's the worst insult imaginable. the lowest loser, the ugliest tranny, the most disgusting bitch possible is a communist. the only reason communists live is because they're surrounded by people too moral and peaceful to do onto them what commies always, inevitably do onto other people and themselves when they get to power.

>>127178328
The Soviet Union had a more conservative idea of classical music than Hanslick. Any decent composers it produced were largely in defiance of its official policy.

>>127178411
That is not objective. And that statement has been objectively disproven

>>127178425
I get it, you're scared of the revolution. You might be better off changing your mind. Now that republicans have been utterly demoralized with their leader being outed as a pedo, its a matter of time

>>127178542
it's as objective as they come. old movies used to come with an identical soundboard before modern sound effects and if you put these together the same way you wouldn't be even able to tell the difference.

>>127178439
Based soviet union. Why is the anti-romantic anon even fighting them? He seems very ideologically aligned

>>127178554
communist revolution lead by yours truly famous communist non-pedophile Joseph Biden coming in two weeks. free hormone medications for all!

>>127178583
russian musical history didn't even start until well into romantic period, anon. what do you think they were conserving?

>>127178599
Marx was german, I assume they tried to conserve the art of the people in all ways, as communism doesn't believe in nationalist ideas

>>127178604
>Marx was german
yeah, about that...

>>127178604
>I assume they tried to conserve the art of the people in all ways
all ways except those branded nationalist, capitalist, counter-revolutionary, regressive or generally belonging to any group communists happen to dislike.

>>127178637
>generally belonging to any group communists happen to dislike.
Like jews

Modern commies are sadly fagged up by the frankfurt school. But Marx and Stalin hated jews

>>127177999
>it's completely one dimensional and superficial, the definition of soullessness.
That is classical period music. A symphony has multiple dimension to it, you're a retarded faggot if you don't realize that, and probably soulless

>>127178652
it's pretty funny, despite all that the first USSR commitees were literally held in yiddish because of how jewed the entire leadership was. jews also remained deeply involved in troikas, NKVD and KGB to the point of becoming dynastic members that continue to this day, despite stalin's purges.

>>127178679
just because you call it a symphony and play it in multiple parts doesn't mean it's got dimensions to it.

>>127178719
Brahms 3 has more depth than any symphony by Mozart

>>127178732
3 inches? like i said, stacking more mismatched parts together doesn't add depth, just boredom but i didn't listen to much brahms so maybe he's different from the rest so i'll give him a try sometime in the future.

>>127178745
Brahms is literally a conservative you newfag. You are so uneducated on music you think the entire romantic period is wagnerian. There were two schools: conservative (Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms) and progressive (Wagner and Liszt)

Then there were figures inbetween like Bruckner and Mahler. Have you even listened to most of these or did you exclusively listen to a piece by liszt and then chopin or some other slavslop and base your opinion on that?

>>127178816
i am aware that he was considered conservative, which is why i said i'll try listening to him

>Have you even listened to most of these or did you exclusively listen to a piece by liszt and then chopin or some other slavslop and base your opinion on that?
i did some but not a whole lot, definitely not enough for a comprehensive overview. it just wasn't very interesting to me since this kind of music was what i was introduced to as "classical music" in childhood and this put me off the whole genre for some time. it's only when i started studying music history and theory that i got into it.

>>127178863
>. it just wasn't very interesting to me since this kind of music was what i was introduced to as "classical music" in childhood and this put me off the whole genre for some time. it's only when i started studying music history and theory that i got into it.
I guess you got filtered, as the kids would say

>>127178881
it depends on the perspective, maybe i did the filtering here. i filter post-modernist "music" almost the same way and will continue to do so.

>>127178890
Just say you're a tourist then instead of this psued nonsense. You like to only listen to the big composers and nobody else because you don't care all too much

>>127178949
i like to listen to good music no matter big or small. i happen to enjoy Machaut more than any romantic composer because i don't care about the latter, true. i don't care because they leave a poor impression and if i listen too much to them i might develop a distaste for classical music as a whole.

>>127178966
Might be preferable if you were to develop a distaste for classical music. One less retard who cannot hear basic development from the general, would be handy

>>127178981
sorry not sorry but you'll have to cope with me for a little longer in here. maybe you could develop some taste for decent music rather than soundboard noise in the meantime as well. good music should be popularized, after all and you can't popularize it if it only attracts pretentious snobs. they've killed contemporary classical music like that, it'd be a shame if older music also follows suit.

>>127179005
>. maybe you could develop some taste for decent music rather than soundboard noise in the meantime as well.
Maybe you could develop an ear that can recognize a theme in a different key KEK. You might as well stop listening to classical music if it's that bad, tourist

>>127179025
there needs to be a theme made from anything but fart vapors for that. you're an expert fart vapor reader and could find a masterpiece development in tea leaves but most people prefer something with actual substance that can be reasonably analyzed and understood.

>>127179034
What made the theme at 40 seconds in Festklange different from a theme from Mozart? Use only objective language and point out measurable characteristics. If you make even a single metaphor or extra-musical claim, I will accept that as the concession that it is in that case

>>127179057
i've already explained it to you, if you refuse to listen and accept it then i rest my case

festklange more like incessant klagging amirite

>>127179069
You did not explain anything in objective language, pointing out measurable characteristics. and not making a single metaphor or extra musical claim.

Considering you refuse to. I accept your concession, my tourist retard friend who cannot hear themes

>>127179082
i'm being as objective as i can be here, you just make an unreasonable demand to get out of an argument.

it's got no development, a most basic melody with a mass of drumming violins laid over it tastelessly.

>>127179099
>you just make an unreasonable demand to get out of an argument.
There is nothing unreasonable about my claim, I ask you how it is fundamentally different from Mozart. It's a simple question. If describing music without metaphors is unreasonable to you, then you have to go back to >>>/mu/
>it's got no development, a most basic melody with a mass of drumming violins laid over it tastelessly.
It's a restatement, not a development. I literally said as such if you had any reading comprehension. You see, romantic composers realized that an exposition repeat is actually boring as fuck to listen to if it's not able to be embellished by a chamber ensemble, and decided to utilize more creative ways to restate melodies instead in their orchestral works

>>127179119
>I ask you how it is fundamentally different from Mozart.
and i answered you fully already. the completely disorganized and unconnected parts thrown together than each involve repetitive, noisy drumming without actual flow or progression are nothing like Mozart.
>It's a restatement, not a development.
it's a load of garbage no matter what you call it.
>romantic composers realized that an exposition repeat is actually boring as fuck to listen to if it's not able to be embellished by a chamber ensemble, and decided to utilize more creative ways to restate melodies instead in their orchestral works
why didn't they realize that instead of embesllishing a turd they should just write a more elegant and coherent music?

>>127179150
>and i answered you fully already. the completely disorganized and unconnected parts thrown together
The part you linked was a restatement of a previously established melody, there is nothing disconnected about it.
>than each involve repetitive, noisy drumming without actual flow or progression are nothing like Mozart.
Thank you ESL sister
Regardless, Mozart's works include literally the exact same type of "noisy drumming", take the first movement of Jupiter for one
>it's a load of garbage no matter what you call it.
I guess Mozart's music is a load of garbage too then, if restatements are verboten.
>why didn't they realize that instead of embesllishing a turd they should just write a more elegant and coherent music?
Thank you ESL sister
And the music is as elegant and coherent as any piece by mozart, you not understanding it is not the piece's problem. It follows the same convention of exposition, development and recapitulation. If you are so dumb that you need themes constantly repeated in the same exact manner, and any use of the orchestra that isn't providing harmony is absolutely horrifying to you, you might be better off listening to videogame and anime soundtracks, not classical music

>>127179176
>muh restatement
no matter what you call it it's still garbage because it doesn't fit and sounds out of place, made worse by the dull abrupt transition(or lack thereof).
>Regardless, Mozart's works include literally the exact same type of "noisy drumming"
i am willing to accept it occasionally but i will not waste my time on shit where this is most of the composition. it's literally a noise.
>I guess Mozart's music is a load of garbage too then, if restatements are verboten.
you still don't understand that idgaf about "restatements", just the substance. Mozart does it right.
>And the music is as elegant and coherent as any piece by mozart
lmao
>you not understanding it
i understand that this is a load of pretentious garbage. i could take a dump on the scene and demand you comprehend a masterful melody to the same effect.
>It follows the same convention of exposition, development and recapitulation.
idgaf about convention, its substance is utterly lacking and execution is abhorrent.
>If you are so dumb that you need themes constantly repeated in the same exact manner
again missing the point.
>and any use of the orchestra that isn't providing harmony is absolutely horrifying to you
it is disgusting to me, true. the same way atonal music makes me puke.
>you might be better off listening to videogame and anime soundtracks, not classical music
at this point they might be more faithful to classical music than what modern "classical" has become.

>>127179176
>Thank you ESL sister
it's funny that you accuse me of being ESL when you can't even comprehend my directly stated point right

>>127179207
also, using orchestra for discordance is more insulting and wasteful than shitting on stage

>>127179207
>no matter what you call it it's still garbage because it doesn't fit and sounds out of place, made worse by the dull abrupt transition(or lack thereof).
To you, to anyone who isn't retarded it fits. You not understanding music is not the piece's fault
>i am willing to accept it occasionally but i will not waste my time on shit where this is most of the composition. it's literally a noise.
And you only listed one very specific section where this happened
>you still don't understand that idgaf about "restatements", just the substance.
I figured you do not actually care about music, just how you look when listening to music. Considering you are the dictionary definition of a hipster tourist who prefers the image of listening to classical music instead of actually listening. If you had even the slightest bit of understanding, you'd know that a restatement IS substance.
>Mozart does it right.
Mozart has less substance, actually. Liszt never does an exact repeat of the previously stated themes and develops them as soon as they're introduced. Mozart puts an exposition repeat in every piece. His work is governed more by constant repetition than by making any sort of statement
>lmao
Not an argument, though I cannot expect someone who cannot hear themes to have the ability to argue.
>i understand that this is a load of pretentious garbage. i could take a dump on the scene and demand you comprehend a masterful melody to the same effect.
Except this is not the case. The melody is not in any way different to what Mozart would have written and you still have not even once objectively explained why it is
>at this point they might be more faithful to classical music than what modern "classical" has become.
Alright, then you might enjoy these boards more
>>>/v/
>>>/a/
>>>/mu/

the fuck you guys arguing about so vehemently

>>127179207
>HE ACTUALLY FUCKING DEFENDED ANIME AND VIDEOGAME SOUNDTRACKS
LMAOOOOOOOOO
>This is the "person" telling you that romantic music is le bad

>>127179207
So... you're a literal soulless NPC pleb who gets horrified at the slightest dissonance? How did you possibly think that this would make you look better? Get the fuck out of this general, Schoenberg is one of our most praised composers here, you are not welcome

>>127179270
Tourist gets horrified by dissonance and decides to blame everyone else. More news at 11

>>127179268
> to anyone who isn't retarded
anyone who isn't retarded has dumped the steaming pile of shit that you call music and moved on to actual pieces.
>uhhh repeptition is substance
repetition of noise pollution is insubstantial
>I figured you do not actually care about music, just how you look when listening to music
more projection. you're literally proud of listening to noisy dissonant fragmented shit and moaning in pleasure because real music is too much for you.
>Liszt never does an exact repeat of the previously stated themes and develops them as soon as they're introduced
so true sister, i can't play the same jumbled mess every time therefore i am actually better composer than Mozart!
>Not an argument
you didn't present an argument, just pathetic deflection.
>Except this is not the case. The melody is not in any way different to what Mozart would have written
except it is and you can't find a passage that is as unmelodic and crude as this in all of Mozart's work

>>127179305
>you're a literal soulless NPC pleb who gets horrified at the slightest dissonance?
if i wanted a constant drumming dissonance i'd listen to indian music.
>Schoenberg is one of our most praised composers here, you are not welcome
you're literally a single tranny hipster coping about diahrrhea of composition desperately trying to make it your safe space. ywnbaw just like your ugly mockery will never be real music.

>>127179366
>anyone who isn't retarded has dumped the steaming pile of shit that you call music and moved on to actual pieces.
But enough about Mozart
>more projection. you're literally proud of listening to noisy dissonant fragmented shit and moaning in pleasure because real music is too much for you.
If you consider Liszt dissonant, God have mercy when you listen to anything beyond your very small bubble of tea party slop
>so true sister, i can't play the same jumbled mess every time therefore i am actually better composer than Mozart!
Still haven't explained why the melody is any different from mozart
>you didn't present an argument, just pathetic deflection.
So just like you. I will not take your post seriously as everything you say is a concession until you are able to explain why it's better than mozart in objective language, pointing out measurable characteristics. and not making a single metaphor or extra musical claim.
>except it is and you can't find a passage that is as unmelodic and crude as this in all of Mozart's work
Explain why it is unmelodic and crude in objective language, pointing out measurable characteristics. and not making a single metaphor or extra musical claim.

>>127179387
>If you consider Liszt dissonant, God have mercy when you listen to anything beyond your very small bubble of tea party slop
there's an endless amount of dissonance and very limited number of consonant combinations. being pround of digging to the bottom is why classical music is dead.
>Still haven't explained why the melody is any different from mozart
because it's not even a melody, it's just a soundboard noise.
>So just like you. I will not take your post seriously as everything you say is a concession until you are able to explain why it's better than mozart in objective language, pointing out measurable characteristics. and not making a single metaphor or extra musical claim.
i just did, you do take my posts seriously but since you're unable to actually counter them you'll whine and seethe instead.
>Explain why it is unmelodic and crude in objective language
because most fragments are constant drumming that goes nowhere and each fragment is disconnected from the last. it's measurable and direct but you will ignore it and keep begging me for some meaningless technicality as if shit music stops being shit because it got a pass on a technicality.

>>127179423
>there's an endless amount of dissonance and very limited number of consonant combinations. being proud of digging to the bottom is why classical music is dead.
Dissonance has always been a tool for emotional depth, not a flaw. Liszt isn’t “digging to the bottom” for the sake of it—he’s exploring new emotional ground. If you’re calling it “dead,” then you’re ignoring the evolution of classical music that expands beyond simple consonance.
>because it's not even a melody, it's just a soundboard noise.
That’s a lazy read. Liszt’s music is highly melodic, but his approach is more fragmented and transformative than Mozart’s. He develops themes, rather than just repeating them. It’s not “noise”—it’s a deliberate choice for complexity.
>i just did, you do take my posts seriously but since you're unable to actually counter them you'll whine and seethe instead.
Calling it “whining” is a weak defense. If your argument is that Liszt’s music is “garbage” because it’s different from Mozart, then you’re missing the point. Music’s value isn’t defined by how closely it adheres to your personal preferences.
>because most fragments are constant drumming that goes nowhere and each fragment is disconnected from the last. it's measurable and direct but you will ignore it and keep begging me for some meaningless technicality as if shit music stops being shit because it got a pass on a technicality.
You’re ignoring Liszt’s purpose in these fragments. The disconnection isn’t aimless; it’s thematic development. It creates tension and complexity. Just because it’s unconventional doesn’t mean it lacks substance. Stop dismissing it based on structure alone.

>>127179366
incredible take — manages to be racist, musically illiterate, and bitter all at once.
indian classical music isn’t “dissonant” in the western sense. it’s modal, microtonal, and rhythmically complex nothing to do with schoenberg. that comparison just proves you don’t know what you’re talking about.

as for schoenberg: yeah, his music is hard. it isn’t meant to be comfy background listening. but calling it “diarrhea of composition” is hilarious when the guy literally invented one of the most rigorous compositional systems of the 20th century.
you can hate twelve-tone all you want, but it’s not chaos it’s order without tonality. a response to romantic excess, not a breakdown of logic. and it shaped everything from webern and berg to boulez, stockhausen, and half of postwar academia.
“not real music” is a great insult until you realize schoenberg’s taught in literally every major conservatory. his ideas influenced classical, jazz, film music, and even electronic and experimental scenes.
you don’t have to like it. but acting like it’s some personal coping mechanism from a “hipster” just because it doesn’t fit your idea of harmony is weak.
you don’t understand it, so you insult it. classic move.
just admit you like nice chord loops and move on. no shame in that. but don’t pretend you’ve made a point when all you’ve done is flinch at complexity.

>>127179490
It's completely justified to be racist against indians though. Who in the world doesn't detest these fuckers? Their music is no different.

schoenbug :DD