Thread 127396207

HAHAHAAHAHA

why is this bad?

>>127396207 (OP)
>>127396214
Might as well be made with a fucking AI.

>>127396207 (OP)
You just know she’s dumb

>>127396214
the absolute state of modern /mu/

>>127396246
>>127396262
>it just is, okay
come now, kids. surely you can articulate why it is that having multiple writers on a single track is bad.

>>127396214
You only need 1 songwriter, yourseelf. With occasional collaborations with another person. The maximum allowed for a song is yourself and two others. If you aren't producing the song either as the lead or with another person you don't get credit either

>>127396285
>not the artists own thoughts in the lyrics
>not the artists own creativity in the music
Why the fuck would you listen to a glorified dancer?

>>127396296
>you should
>you shouldn't
why
use words
answer the question
don't just restate your beliefs
articulate your rationale

>please waste time arguing with me online!
>give me attention!
if you can't figure it out yourself you're retarded. sorry!

>>127396285
one, it's the musical equivalent of your music being created by committee - ie, soulless. two, if you're one part of 50+, your role as an artist is objectively diminished in importance. there being 104 writers on cowboy carter indicates beyonce is actually relatively replaceable and unimportant with regards the vision and final product, at least when compared with (for example) a chappell roan album where it's just her and dan basically

>>127396302
why not? music has a long tradition of separating roles like that. george gershwin, smokey robinson, the list could go on...
next you'll tell me that a director in a film should also write the film, act all the roles, hold up the microphones etc.

>>127396314
first, the number of credited writers per track in not 104 and includes sampled writers etc. second, please see the film analogy. there's nothing inherently bad about having a large number of people involved in a production.

let's try and think this through.
we're talking about beyonce
she's like the michael bay of music
do you want michael bay to make an art film?
no. you want him to tell people where to put explosions.
nothing wrong with that.

>>127396214
go back

>>127396214
>>127396304
Monkey

>>127396214
Lol.

>>127396367
>>127396375
Not that anon but it is telling no one can put into words what exactly is wrong with having songwriters, it’s just an emotional knee jerk reaction

>>127396367
i've been here since 09.
well, i left for a bit because it became intolerable.
so really, i have come back.

>>127396375
>>127396388
i guess we've just given up now. shame.

>>127396341
>music has a long tradition of separating roles like that
No, it literally doesn't.

>>127396415
it does. do you think beethoven was playing all the instruments by himself?
perhaps we should just discard all classical performances because the composers are dead or incapable of playing 30 violins simultaneously

>>127396389
I can’t think of anyone going as a solo artist with that many songwriters and producers and samples as anything other than a hack, and the fact that you’re perfectly ok with it makes me think you’re part of the normalfag cattle who enjoy their pre-manufactured, AI-tier slop.

The anon defending Beyonce is a bitch.

>>127396214
It's the most soulless shit ever. Might as well make it with AI

that many writers to achieve dogshit music lmao

>>127396341
if people treated beyonce like diana ross or some other motown singer who everyone knows just performed songs written for her by a committee, that would be one thing, but the issue is people treat beyonce like an actual creative artist, and an iconic one at that.

even you could surely admit that there is more talent and artistry (don't reply with some reddit brained "words have no meaning and truth is socially constructed" post modernism btw) behind someone like grimes, who writes and produces her entire album, compared to beyonce, who is one cog out of 30 on any given track. even taylor swift, for all her faults, is the most important and irreplaceable person in her catalog

>>127396445
a simp, really

>>127396207 (OP)
>>127396461
>be the Beatles
>4 members + the producer
>create some of the most iconic, undisputed 10/10 songs of all time
>some of those songs John, George and Paul came up completely alone

>be Beyone
>1 gazillion songwriters
>zero good songs

Brutal.

>>127396429
>Playing is the same as writing
Are you fucking retarded or are you just being obtuse?

>>127396434
>>127396451
>it just is...
not really

i understand that this generation has become incredibly reliant on llms to do their reasoning for them, but i expected bettter on 4chan
surely someone on the one great em yoo can give me a good reason why i should not enjoy ella fitzgerlad singing the cole porter songbook
i guess not

>>127396501
what other people may or may not believe is of little interest to me.
in fact, beyonce is of little interest to me. but i do think her catalogue, as a whole, is actually more interesting than grime's music, which has been pretty terrible since visions.
do i know how much of beyonce's creative output she directs? not really. when i'm listening to one of her songs over the supermarket speakers do i know how many people wrote one of her songs? not really. are they more interesting music than most of taylor swift's recent work? yes.
but gun to head, i'd probably rate swift over beyonce because of the songwriting ability, despite enjoying the ouput less.
but does this make the music that comes out under beyonce's name any worse? no.
everyone got credited, everyone got paid. it's the right way to do things.

>>127396550
if you just make up stuff it's not really an argument.

This is a fake chart and they’re counting sampled writers.

>>127396207 (OP)
very corporate sounding music. music for commercials to have normalfags bob their heads to.

>>127396563
>doesn't address literally any of the points
Faggot!

>>127396610
name one point i didn't address
and don't use that language on this board, many great musicians were faggots
respect your betters

>>127396214
>>127396399
Alright, retard. It's bad because of many reasons.
For one, it's diluting the artistic vision. It's hard to believe the final product reflects a single cohesive artistic voice. It's essentially built by a committee, with formula-driven production decisions made for commercial appeal rather than artistic intent. It's pretty good proof of manufactured art and lack of originality.
There's credit inflation, because many of these credits come from sampling or interpolating existing songs, which raises questions about originality when the "writing" is more about borrowing than inventing.
Then, in contrast to singer-songwriters or bands who compose their own material, these large lists of writers make it seem as though she can't or doesn't create without a massive support network. Lack of self-sufficiency and authenticity. It's fucking lame. It's fake and gay.
Also, industry inequity. The sheer number of credited writers dilutes royalties for smaller contributors, making it harder for any one writer (other than her) to make substantial income from the track.
Last but not least: the image vs. reality gap. She's marketed as some kind of auteur-level artist, i.e. someone deeply in control of her craft. Don't make me fucking laugh. It's absolute horseshit. Who Run the World and it's 70 guys making her albums, LOL.
Don't be a parasocial retard and defend the billionaire celebrity.

>>127396302
>>127396415
It does, though. Operas had one guy writing the lyrics and the other making the music, for example.

>>127396626
you're ok with people sampling their hooks from actual songwriters of the past, or using producers and 3rd party songwriters to do the heavy lifting for them? If we're talking pop artists, Michael Jackson at least wrote Billie Jean by himself, the cunt in the OP gets out of bed when her song is already 95% written lmao.

>>127396563
>do i know how much of beyonce's creative output she directs? not really. when i'm listening to one of her songs over the supermarket speakers do i know how many people wrote one of her songs? not really. are they more interesting music than most of taylor swift's recent work? yes.
nobody reasonable is going to say you can't enjoy music that's basically one to two steps away from being AI generated, it's just that beyonce specifically is treated as some kind of monumental generational talent, a landmark and icon who will be revered for the ages, when she's not actually any better than some random singer who performed the works of tinpan alley back in the day. it's that mismatch that irks me

>>127396683
Not 50+ people you retarded cunt. Kys.

>>127396644
>It's essentially built by a committee
you have no evidence for this. perhaps someone is directing the entire thing. also, does this mean bands are bad?

>made for commercial appeal rather than artistic intent
again, no evidence for this, but also these are not mutually exclusive. the people involved in these processes enjoy making pop music. they do it over and over again. they say they enjoy doing it it. this is their intent.


>There's credit inflation
this is actually a good point. most people don't realise the modern studio process involves a lot of this. you say one word that gets in and you'll get a writing credit and people willl demand points. if in past this had been the case, you'd see motown session guys getting credits on every track (they don't btw)


>Then, in contrast to singer-songwriters or bands who compose their own material, these large lists of writers make it seem as though she can't or doesn't create without a massive support network. Lack of self-sufficiency and authenticity. It's fucking lame. It's fake and gay.
just restating your biases


>the sheer number of credited writers dilutes royalties for smaller contributors
see my previous comment. the process is more equitable now than it was in the past.

>She's marketed as some kind of auteur-level artist
is she? post some of this material. i'd be interested in seeing this. i'd also love to see your evidence contradicting her directortial powers.
thanks

>>127396689
>AI generated
you kids keep saying this like pop music hasn't been written this way for decades. it's not ai generated at all. this just how it's been done for a very long time.
the rest of your comment seems like a personal bias. pop music fandom is pervasive in late millennials and gen-z and certainly not exclusive to beyonce.
again, i don't care about what some midwit on /wpop/ or twitter thinks, neither should you.

the tourist and hampus would have eaten you kids alive btw

>>127396572
>The artists from sampled material don't deserve to be credited and listed with the others! I-I-It's just a recording bro!
I really hope a drunk driver speeds off the side of the road and kills your entire family while you stand there and watch.

>>127396501
>taylor swift, for all her faults, is the most important and irreplaceable person in her catalog
c'mon bro, all she is is a face and persona to sell the music which is written by a team of others. just pick up one of her actual albums and look at the long list of people involved. but this seems to be the way with most modern day musicians. even older acts do it now. i picked up the tipping point by tears for fears and they had like dozens of producers and other people involved

>>127396543
Beatles never produced a single song, it was all someone else

>>127396626
Michael Jackson wrote almost everything by himself with occasional help from one of his close friends, he also produced / lead produced every song he wrote and songs from every album post Thriller. Occasionally he'd opt to not write songs instead (You Are Not Alone - Kelly, MITM - Garrett, Thriller / RWY - Temperton) but mostly it was his vision

The Beatles was always self written either by Lennon/McCartney or George Harrison who wrote the best songs

>>127397639
Again, under the modern way of doing writing credits, both the Beatles and Michael would have a multitude of additional writers on the songs. Michael could play no instruments, he hummed stuff. The musicians who actually interpreted his pedophilic moans into music would get credits. The guys who designed the synth sounds on thriller would have writing credits. George Martin would have writing credits, the engineers who built the effects the Beatles used would ha e writing credits. Ringo would have writing credits on a lot of tracks because Paul didn't sit down and write the drum score for him the majority of the time.
You live in a fantasy world, detached from reality, glazing a past that never existed and apologising for a mentally ill man who fucked kids (good for him)

Let's be honest here, she wasn't even the best singer in Destiny's Child. She just happened to marry a record label owner who knew all the right people.

Beyonce is a great performer. Who cares if she doesn't write her music. It's shit anyway

>>127396501
>don't reply with some reddit brained "words have no meaning and truth is socially constructed" post modernism btw
You don't know what postmodernism is and you have no idea what it means for something to be socially constructed. Someone told you to get mad at those words because le heckin libcucks said them and you got mad at them. You think that this is thought.

>>127396749
This only person in the thread who actually knows what they're talking about.

pathetic samefag

>>127398555
>trips
Checked.
>picrel
Sorry <3

>>127396207 (OP)
first time listening to pop music? it's been like this since the 50s. get over it.

>>127396684
>50 second song
>7 writers

Did they each get 7 seconds, or what?

>>127398667
nobody cares about your inspect element screenshot, faggot

>>127398501
Agreed. She's a dancer first and competent pop singer second. Beyonce is not a real musician. She makes another popstar like Madonna look like Bach.
>>127398727
Sometimes yes. Sometimes you had people like Michael Jackson who only worked with 1-2 guys at a time. I do think because of that the nature of his pop music reflected more of a singular vision than Beyonce and friends.

>>127398833
>you faked it!!!
Sorry I agree with the one guy in the thread who knows what he's talking about <3

>>127396296
Wrong. Sometimes a singer can simply be a really good singer. Do you expect actors to write the script and direct the movie?

>>127396207 (OP)
the music i make has precisely ONE writer. if you can't write your own shit between yourself and maybe 5 band members + 1 great producer (MAX), then you ain't an artist, you ain't a musician, you don't have real talent. even the JEWS in Kiss wrote their own shit. What's Beyoniggers excuse?

>>127397975
this is such a cope. we're talking about songwriting credits here, not production and engineering credits, you dumbass fag. also doesn't help that these modern hackjob "artists" have to rely on samples as the prime mover for "their" compositions.

>>127396626
Based Arthur Russel enjoyer

>>127397617
>+ the producer
Retard.

Why are 70% of threads on this website just 2-3 retards arguing with each other nowadays? The quality of this website has REALLY gone downhill post Hack

>>127396749
This only person in the thread who actually knows what they're simping about.

>>127396207 (OP)
In today's episode /mu/ learns about a little thing called equal writing credits because musicians are tired of having messy lawsuits 30-50 years down the road

>>127399879
Also ASCAP/BMI

>>127399701
It was always garbage mate. Embrace the suck.

>>127396246
I’ve been thinking this for a while now.
But the singer/front man/women really makes the magic.
You add in the band members but a good singer really makes all the difference.
A lot of people eg op pic related can write music but to perform and capture and audience is way less.
Put your lyrics into SUNO and you’ll get something better than what most people can perform.

The most beloved Black female celebrity after Michelle Obama has been whitening and wearing blonde wigs for years. Some role model.

>>127398898
Have you actually looked at songwriting credits in the last 20 years, brainlet?

>>127396207 (OP)
Did they all get paid enough? Damn, bitches can't even get rich like dat

>>127396749
>you have no evidence for this...
Technically correct, but it's evidence of a highly collaborative (or derivative) production model. Modern pop with dozens of writers almost always involves multiple producers, lyricists, melody writers, and rights-holders from sampled material, i.e. many parties influencing the final product. That's a form of "committee".
>also, does this mean bands are bad?
False equivalence. Most bands have a smaller, fixed group of writers, maybe 2-10 people who collaborate over years, developing a unified sound. It's disingenuous to pretend this is even remotely the same.

>again, no evidence for this, but also these are not mutually exclusive. the people involved in these processes...
You're right that artistic and commercial goals aren't mutually exclusive. But you're wrong to imply that the criticism is invalid just because the creators "enjoy doing it". Enjoyment doesn't erase the structural reality that this is an industrial, committee-driven production designed for maximum reach.

>is she? post some of this material.
Yes. Homecoming and Life Is But a Dream frame her as the central creative force orchestrating huge productions, from staging to choreography to music.
She's repeatedly described in press (Vogue, Elle) as "meticulous" and "in control of every detail".

>evidence contradicting her directortial powers
The criticism isn't that she has no directorial powers, it's that the scale of credited collaborators challenges the purity of her narrative. Having 50-100 credited writers suggests that while she curates and directs, she's not creating in the same solitary or small-team way that the "singular visionary" image implies.

What's it like being a completely retarded, parasocial, celebrity-worshipping moron? Why do you worship the billionaire, anon? You should be extra critical towards the powerful (wealthy), yet here you are defending them like it's your mother. You're pathetic.

>>127396701
Relax, you flustered faggot. I'm simply disputing the idea that music doesn't have a long tradition of separating roles. You have shit reading comprehension.

>>127401647
Finally, someone who can use words. Though I take issue with some of the points you've made (you know more about Beyonce than I do, Mr simp). But I dont like typing essays on phone (I called the kpop mod a pedophile again sshhh)

>>127396207 (OP)
I'm not convinced either her or Jay Z could write their own name in a birthday card without assistance