Thread 127653467

ITT: Artists that filter non-musicians

>>127653467 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a34ELYISVyQ

>>127653470
>>127653487
elaborate

>>127654130
>food analogy
Ok let me put it in a way you'd understand
Music I like = fine dining
"Music" you like = goyslop

>>127653467 (OP)
ITT: OP confuses complexity with beauty

It doesn't matter how complex you make your art piece if it doesn't have a crumb of soul in it.

>>127654625
There was no need to attack Dream Theater like that.

>>127654625
People keep calling guy's music soulless without ever elaborating on why. It's the most retarded "vibes" tier argument I can imagine.

I say this as someone who never listened to his music because i dont care about pop

>>127653467 (OP)
I'm a musician and know music theory well. He makes garbage, overproduced slop, and his vocals are disgusting. It's overly saccharine, obnoxiously optimistic music that can only be made by someone who has been sheltered from the real world their entire life. That's why it sounds insincere or inauthentic, which bothers any sane person who has gone through hardship. There's really no need to go into more detail than that. There's no use in deconstructing his music theoretically, as it doesn't matter if it's "complex" or not. All that matters is if it sounds good, and the answer is it doesn't; therefore poetic descriptions and emotional feedback suffice. It's already enough to simply look at him. Nobody who looks like that can make good art.

>>127655330
It's completely disingenuous to say that. People can elaborate very clearly why it's soulless, for example
>I’m a musician and audio engineer. There’s a certain stigma attached to music from music school kids. A lot of it has a certain sound and writing style, that’s very… sterile. Much of it is made backwards. It starts with how do I use this concept as opposed to how do I describe this emotion. It’s a function of music school innately attracting those who aren’t rebellious and therefore don’t end up pushing boundaries in an interesting way. Collier makes quintessential music school music. Academic. Soulless.

>I agree. All of his music comes of like some kind of concept demonstration. That goes for both his composition and performance. He always has good ideas, but doesn't even try to make it into actual good music. He plays and sings well technically, but never makes me care at all.

>it's clear that he is a theoretically talented musician. However, his displays of this talent manifest themselves mainly as reharmonizing melodies over overly virtuosic chord progressions that just sound ugly and awkward (don't get me started on "Moon River") and self-indulgently throwing in microtones on music with super boring production; he doesn't even seem to really write originals, all his biggest hits are needlessly overcomplicated versions of classic songs.

>>127655719
>There’s a certain stigma attached to music from music school kids. A lot of it has a certain sound and writing style, that’s very… sterile. Much of it is made backwards.
All of this is, once again, completely "vibes" based rather than any clear level of elaboration.
>. It starts with how do I use this concept as opposed to how do I describe this emotion.
Where exactly does he directly say this? Again, total assumption of how the music is produced rather than talking about why the music is soulless at face value. This is like if I called Beethoven's music soulless because I believe he used a complex mathematical algorithm in his head to write his music. My source? Idk just listen to it dude
>attracting those who aren’t rebellious and therefore don’t end up pushing boundaries in an interesting way.
What music made by non-academics has pushed any musical boundaries in the last 100 years? The Beatles are not more boundary breaking that Schoenberg
>>I agree. All of his music comes of like some kind of concept demonstration. He plays and sings well technically, but never makes me care at all.
Again, no actual description of where this happens or how. It's again just "vibes", give me a song and explain properly what makes it soulless. I never see anyone in these threads do so, likely because most people here do not understand or enjoy music and cannot explain what makes a piece of music good or bad to save their life. The final part is entirely subjective. I don't care for most of the music posted here either, but I don't call it a objective reason as to why that music is soulless.
>However, his displays of this talent manifest themselves mainly as reharmonizing melodies over overly virtuosic chord progressions that just sound ugly and awkward (don't get me started on "Moon River")
Okay, WHY does it sound awkward? Explain what about the sequence of chords he uses makes it sound awkward. Like Jesus how fucking hard is this?

>>127655330
his music doesn't have the je ne sais quoi that music with soul has

>>127653467 (OP)
there isnt a single musician on earth that listens to this fraud. he made him music simply to get art hoe pussy and for no other reason. or maybe hes ac so retarded and vain he thinks the ugly pointless shit he makes is good and not complete dross.

>>127653470
also complete shit. this is listened to by 15 year olds and no one else. i used to love this band when i was 15 now im 27 and its just embarrassing looking back that i used to think crap like this was good.

>>127655895
Look faggot, simply use your ears. How fucking hard is this? Are you dense? Are you even human? Do you not hear what everyone else is hearing? I'm not going to write a dissertation about his garbage music just to prove a point to a random on the internet. It seems to me like it's very obvious what his music is to everyone except for you for some reason.

most of jazz except Miles Davis and Coltrane

>>127655895
>This is like if I called Beethoven's music soulless because I believe he used a complex mathematical algorithm in his head to write his music
No, it's not even remotely like that because Beethoven actually sounds good and not like he's trying to prove a point with overelaborate nonsense the way Collier is, you autistic fuck.

>>127655895
>Again, no actual description of where this happens or how. It's again just "vibes", give me a song and explain properly what makes it soulless. I never see anyone in these threads do so, likely because most people here do not understand or enjoy music and cannot explain what makes a piece of music good or bad to save their life
Nobody is going to theoretically dissect one of his songs to prove a point to a single autist who can't understand. It's simply because everybody can hear and agree that it sounds like (too much) shit (is happening), and we move on.
>The final part is entirely subjective. I don't care for most of the music posted here either, but I don't call it a objective reason as to why that music is soulless.
First of all, nobody ITT has uttered the words "subjective" and "objective". People misuse these terms as if the first one means "le random/pure opinion" and the second "quantifiable", but in reality it's not so simple or even remotely like that.
In any case, it's absolutely not "entirely subjective" whether a piece of music is good or bad. Even people who parrot that nonsense don't actually believe or practice it.

well, I'm listening to this collier fellow right now and to me it sounds like teen drama music? Or like it belongs in a lifetime movie
the song's called little blue
doesn't offend me or excite me, I think it would be better as an instrumental

>>127653467 (OP)
i'm a musician and jacob's voice and meme theory both sound like shit.
but you did post the one good thing he made so you're not 100% wrong. but i think anyone would be able to enjoy it.

>>127655895
>What music made by non-academics has pushed any musical boundaries in the last 100 years?
Lol. Not him but what a retard.

>>127653467 (OP)
Having a primarily other musician audience is a sign that your music is terrible.

>>127655895
Essentially good musicians don't make complex music for its own sake and tend to avoid things like nakedly insert specific musical devices in order to demonstrate their mastery of them.

>>127657126
Also Miles and Coltrane, depending on the time period.

>>127657104
>Look faggot, simply use your ears. How fucking hard is this? Are you dense? Are you even human? Do you not hear what everyone else is hearing? I'm not going to write a dissertation about his garbage music just to prove a point to a random on the internet.
So you do not understand or enjoy music and you cannot explain it on any level other than "vibes" and get angry when someone does not think that subjective arguments are valid? Good to know.
> It seems to me like it's very obvious what his music is to everyone except for you for some reason.
As said, I do not care for Collier's music and I am not going to listen to it. I just find it amusing that his biggest critics are "people" who cannot even explain what is wrong with his work because they have the musical knowledge of a doormat. OPs point seemed retarded until I started talking to you.
>>127657141
>No, it's not even remotely like that because Beethoven actually sounds good and not like he's trying to prove a point with overelaborate nonsense the way Collier is, you autistic fuck.
Pot calling the kettle nigger, you are too autistic to understand my point. Saying it's soulless because it sounds like it was composed in a particular way according to YOU is not a valid argument. It would have water if you could point to an interview or anything by collier where he said that he composed in this way. For all we know Collier was writing by thinking "How do I describe this emotion" and presumably did a shit job. But as long as you don't back that up it's a waste of words. Try actually commenting on what he DOES in the music rather than what you think he intended to do.
>>127657295
Guess I was correct then as you were unable to name even a single piece of music that pushed any boundaries.
>>127657227
>Nobody is going to theoretically dissect one of his songs to prove a point to a single autist who can't understand.

>>127657585
continuing the reply to: >>127657227


Why are you people accusing others of autism when you are the most autistic retards I have ever spoken to? I am not asking for his songs to be dissected, I am asking for literally ANY fucking musical critique that goes beyond "I dont like it" or "vibes". No wonder this board is a fucking joke these days, it's full of zoomers who cannot talk about music for the life of them. There really needs to be a ban on all zoomers on this fucking board.
>It's simply because everybody can hear and agree that it sounds like (too much) shit (is happening), and we move on.
Bach sounds like too much shit is happening, if you think that his music is bad you should kill yourself. This does not make any sense as an argument. Saying it "sounds like shit" in general is not a valid argument. All your post does is appeal to popular opinion, which is arguably the most soulless NPC possible argument you can have.
>In any case, it's absolutely not "entirely subjective" whether a piece of music is good or bad. Even people who parrot that nonsense don't actually believe or practice it.
Yes, and I agree that music can be objectively good or bad. But then FUCKING EXPLAIN what is bad about Collier's work. We have so much text written, yet you fucking braindead apes cannot talk about music, only celebrity gossip.

Really what the fuck are you people doing on a music board? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, get a different hobby.

>>127657320
>It has to appeal to my retard ears or its bad!
Music is not for you, stick to film, literature and videogames

>>127657585
>>127657600
Collier is mad peoole think his music is soulless bullshit lol

Either that or zoomers loce just kissing ass to corporate shit. Which does happen. They get defensive when you criticize the most corporate soulless corporations or celebs. Stop being nepotistic and shut the fuck up retard

>>127657636
>Collier is mad peoole think his music is soulless bullshit lol
I already said, I don't give a shit about collier. His music might as well be soulless slop. My critique here is the absolute musical illiteracy that this board has, the fact that you cannot actually explain what is wrong with his music in any objective way is what annoys me. In this thread there are little to no valid arguments for his music being bad, it's just people parroting things they heard from other people without actually describing anything.
>Either that or zoomers loce just kissing ass to corporate shit. Which does happen. They get defensive when you criticize the most corporate soulless corporations or celebs. Stop being nepotistic and shut the fuck up retard
You talk far more like a zoomer than I do, you most likely are some kind of weird self hating zoomer. Zoomers generally are fucking shit at judging art and you certainly fit right in with them. There was a time this board would have actually talked about the notes he played rather than the words he spoke. You are a true example of zoomer faggotry that ruined this board, completely obsessed with celebrity gossip and no interest whatsoever in talking about MUSIC.

>>127657686
Its too slick and overproduced and has no creativity to it. It just sounds generic. There ya go zoomer

Blueberry Boat by Fiery Furnaces is a better version of what that fag does

>>127657634
If your music doesn't have any appeal beyond giving other musicians a forum to talk shop, that means it's shit. I hate Hollywood Undead for example, but the fact that their fans were mostly idiot teenagers who just wanted to have fun makes them inherently more respectable than fuckin CHON

>>127658603
Hate how little variety there also in this kind of music, it's the same musical devices reiterated over and over.

great bait OP, have another (You)
>>127653467 (OP)

>>127658031
Completely arbitrary metric that can describe anything on the radio that people on this board will gush over.

>>127658603
>>127659689
If your art only appeals to an audience who cannot produce it, it means that it is objectively garbage

>>127661429
subjective/objective dichotomy
No one has to explain why shit like ELP is bad, it's a aesthetic experience.

>>127653467 (OP)
The hate I have for you
I swore I never would unleash
But here you are in pieces
Lying at my sweaty feet
I masturbate with guilt
While looking at your distant eyes
I've had your torso seven times
Yet still my dick does rise

Lubing up your lifeless cunt
With blood from where your legs were
I slide in with ease
My soul you please
Finger your rectum
You're just as good in death as life
I don't know why I waited
Your head is gone
You cannot speak
Can't think of what I hated

Now I tire of stretching out
Your dead and bleeding twat
Variety is what I crave
So with my knife I cut
Your ass and cunt are now as one
I join them with a slice
The blood and defecation
On my hard-on feels so nice

>>127653467 (OP)
The only person I know who genuinly likes Jacob Collier is a literal autist.
He's a nice dude, but his taste in music is fucking trash.

Jacob Colliers music is emotionless. It's the best way I can describe his music. He doesnt understand how to tell a story with music, it's just chords followed by chords without any intent beyond "ooh this sounds soulfull". There's just nothing there, it's just fluff and thrills.
This is the problem when you skip the writing-songs-with-3-4 chords phase of your music career, you dont learn how to communicate an emotion with as little as possible.

i listened to one of his albums out of curiosity, decided that i didn't like it, and moved on. why did you make this thread? did he release a new album or what?

>>127653467 (OP)
haha OP I love froggo XD

Just ignore the the Jacob Collier whiteknight. There's no obligation to justify Collier, what's next justify rym tranny shit shills? Lol. Just keep defending Collier and move on insteadof whining like a bitch Collier defender retard

>>127653467 (OP)
all of them
you shouldn't be able to post here if you don't play an instrument

>>127657585
You don't play an instrument. If you do, you don't play with any amount of grit. You probably, in fact, suck.

>>127662591
this is dull, trashy, and schizophrenic

>>127654268
EAT THE BUG

>>127653467 (OP)
He's just some faggot kid, not a real musician.

faggot whiteknight got triggered

>>127663449
why?

>>127653467 (OP)
>>127653467 (OP)

>Artists that filter non-musicians

NMIXX, picrel.
beautiful voices, complex music, stellar production, and they've released songs in English, Spanish, Cantonese, Korean, idk what else

High Horse
https://youtu.be/jy0qJC6IbgY?si=IBD-pDGEnSfQJMQ6

DASH
https://youtu.be/0BK9e3ZcY1g?si=GjeNFkeacoP-VS2Z

...their first song:
O.O
https://youtu.be/sKnffD-IPlo?si=DwNj_J4c3D7Rup7i

>>127662272
I.E you are musically illiterate and cannot articulate why you think music is good or bad.
>aesthetic experience.
Literal nonsense, aesthetics can be explained. You are acting like it's some kind of magic goop that just exists only to our ears likely because you have no understanding of it. You are quite literally committing God of the gaps

>>127663181
>>127665881
As said, I am not trying to whiteknight collier. His music might be good or it might be shit, I don't care to listen to it. My question lies specifically in your ability to explain why you think music is good or bad. Something you have proven yourself completely incapable of. Which makes me wonder why you are even on a place for music discussion when you clearly have absolutely nothing to offer.

>>127663691
Assumption at best. Definitely not a valid argument against any point I made.
>you don't play with any amount of grit
I don't play rock music because it's a shit genre, yes.

>>127662766
>Jacob Colliers music is emotionless. It's the best way I can describe his music. He doesnt understand how to tell a story with music, it's just chords followed by chords without any intent beyond "ooh this sounds soulfull". There's just nothing there, it's just fluff and thrills.
46 words and nothing of substance said. " it's just chords followed by chords without any intent beyond "ooh this sounds soulfull"" can describe literally any piece of music ever fucking made that I or you don't like. You are making an objective statement and your only arguments are subjective.
>This is the problem when you skip the writing-songs-with-3-4 chords phase of your music career, you dont learn how to communicate an emotion with as little as possible.
This is even more ridiculous. Did Beethoven or Bach write emotionless music because they didn't write 4 chord songs? You are a fucking musically illiterate retard

>>127653467 (OP)
Even his album covers are from the early 90s jesus christ.

>>127666755
Go with your positivist framed mind somewhere else. I won't explain a tasteless artist (others already did it fo5. I let that to a deluded autist like you

>>127667861
>Go with your positivist framed mind somewhere else
It's amazing how much it makes you seethe when someone asks something as basic as "explain why this is bad", imagine this being said in literally any other medium.

The most retarded film viewer can still articulate why he dislikes a movie
The most retarded reader can still articulate why he doesn't like a book
The most retarded gamer can still articulate why he doesn't like a game
The smartest /mu/tard cannot explain why he doesn't like a piece of music

> I won't explain a tasteless artist (others already did it fo5
Nobody did, every single critique I have seen ITT has been subjective judgements based on personal feelings about the music, nothing about the music itself is actually commented on.

>I let that to a deluded autist like you
Learn basic grammar and sentence structure. Regardless I find it amusing that you are so absolutely fixated on calling me autistic when autism's main symptom is being unable to communicate your thoughts and ideas properly. Which is exactly what you are doing right now. I say this as someone who teaches autistic children in a special ed school, you are reminding me a lot of them.

>>127667896
>>The most retarded film viewer can still articulate why he dislikes a movie
>The most retarded reader can still articulate why he doesn't like a book
>The most retarded gamer can still articulate why he doesn't like a game
>The smartest /mu/tard cannot explain why he doesn't like a piece of music
To make myself more clear, people in other mediums can explain why they like or dislike something based upon actual aspects of the thing that they are talking about. Most people who dislike a film will point to things in the film rather than just saying "it's an aesthetic expierence", they will give examples of scenes that they dislike or shots that look bad. All I am asking for is a simple explanation for what the music does and why it's bad. I can explain why neil breen is bad by commenting on things that he does in his films which lead me to that conclusion. I am asking for the most basic form of discourse that any other medium would have. This isn't autism, this is literally what everyone else on every other board and site talking about anything else does when they discuss art of any other kind.

>>127667861
>positivism is when you critique god of the gaps
NTA but holy fuck dude you're retarded

>>127667979
You post anime pics lol

>>127669408
It's an anime site, cry more

>>127656041
you sure you're 27? you have the idiot confidence of a teen American, and it's a bad look

>>127669419
Faggot weeb. Too much anime rooted your brain

>>127657585
>I just find it amusing that his biggest critics are "people" who cannot even explain what is wrong with his work because they have the musical knowledge of a doormat.

NTA but I have a large amount of musical knowledge. I'll attempt to explain what I think is "wrong" with Jacob's music.

Like a lot of other music pros, I went through a long stage of being dazzled by virtuosi and still periodically delve into their output. Being a virtuoso means you have a better chance at getting noticed simply because you can do things other people can't. Jacob definitely has that, and he does a lot. The microtonality, the metric weirdness, the density of his multitracking, he has certainly innovated quite a bit, and it's undeniable.

What's broken about it is that the virtuosity seems to be the centerpiece of his compositions, which isn't EVER what makes virtuosi popular. The talent becomes subservient to what the musician is "saying". So like Jeff Buckley for instance- he's absolutely a virtuoso composer and guitarist, but was never marketed as that, he was just dazzling as a singer. But everything was in service of this absolute black hole he had at the center of his personality. The guy did a lot but did not waste notes.

Or Coltrane- he played more notes than anyone, and pissed people off because of it. But he chased spirituality and didn't broadcast the new ideas he was performing. for instance the polyphonics- it's not like he taught people what that was at concerts, he just started screaming through his sax.

That's night and day from what Collier does, and it's difficult to understand if that's just bad marketing milking his berklee-student applicant fans who glaze him every concert.

>>127657585
>I just find it amusing that his biggest critics are "people" who cannot even explain what is wrong with his work
his voice sounds like dogshit and adding more chords to a song doesn't make it better.

>>127669802
Better explanation than the ones given ITT. Have a haha i love froggo

>>127669858
>his voice sounds like dogshit
Subjective statement
>and adding more chords to a song doesn't make it better.
It does not inherently, but it does give more ability for an emotional journey and generally pieces which utilize lots of chords in a way that works are better than pieces which use a few chords that work. because the former is an inherently more difficult task. The question then will be: how does collier utilize that extra harmonic possibility? Does he do anything with it or does he not?

>>127669925
>Subjective statement
no
quick practical example:
tons of chords and random bullshit that no one cares about (le epic bass fill) + jacob yawning into a vocoder: https://youtu.be/IlFD298wTOM
no experimental bullshit + anyone else in the world singing: https://youtu.be/VMzIBNC_ojI
it's not hard to show the problems in his music

>Does he do anything with it or does he not?
it's not a question. no.
https://youtu.be/5bE0CZi-O8c
^ lots of chords, mysteriously doesn't sound like shit, because wayne shorter is a much better composer but you can't believe that because more chords and perfect pitch = more skill in every area right?
you falling for fucking sheldon cooper tier ethos because ethos is the only thing you understand.

>>127669925
>[using more chords] does give more ability for an emotional journey and generally pieces which utilize lots of chords in a way that works are better than pieces which use a few chords that work. because the former is an inherently more difficult task.

what THE FUCK are you talking about? something is "better" just because it's more difficult? sure you can make your own "objective" criteria for judging music, but thinking that means you understand how "emotional journeys" work in composition is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. have a nice day dumbass

here's something that many many people have had an "emotional journey" to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5rusicEnc

It's not particularly complicated. just a good ass melody. Melody is ineffable.

The biggest problem with all of his songs is unironically the flat, nothingburger production