Thread 127658989

Bernard Butler in Suede was the only time in music history when a literal virtuoso was in an indie band. No other "alternative" or indie rock band had a guitarist that good.
It's actually quite incredible to hear early Suede songs with removed vocals and hear all this guitar lines which are never just noise or powerchords but coherent, thoughtful, beautiful and emotional melodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYXh4Oa3Wr4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wfbhja2ETA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSzM3WYzBVE
Who else plays like that? The only ones coming to my mind are Johnny Marr and Jimmy Page but desu I feel that Bernard is even better. This is classical musician level. It's a tragedy that Yvonne Lefébure and Andres Segovia never had a chance to listen Suede.

Andres Segovia was an old insecure elitist bum who disregarded all guitar music that wasn't classical played on nylon as noise.

>>127659213
He would change his mind if he listened Suede b-sides.

Could not possibly agree more with OP. Two LPs and he split. Sad. Unique style like a combo of Marr and Page. Very melodic, kind of anachronistic.

>>127658989 (OP)
>This is classical musician level.
HA!

>>127658989 (OP)
Graham coxom >>> suede virtuoso

>>127658989 (OP)
Cmon

this dude created some killer riffs, I don't know why suede's not popular (worldwide). Richard was very good too

>>127658989 (OP)
>No other "alternative" or indie rock band had a guitarist that good.

Bernard Butler was possibly the best guitarist in rock in the 90s, I said it before.

>>127659542
>Very melodic, kind of anachronistic.
That's why he got booted from Suede. He had a tendency to noodle out, he wanted their songs to be more like prog rock and have very long length. The rest of the band was appalled, they wanted to make good music but not become a bore fest because the guitar guy wanted 10 minutes long songs. So it led to constant conflict and eventually they parted ways.

He had his own style back in those years, there was nobody like him. And indeed kinda anachronistic, because he was trying to play bluesy and melodic in a time when everyone was practicing the guitar minimalism, influenced by alt-rock.

Now imagine Cobain didn't jump the gun (pun) and heard Butler was getting booted from Suede, they could have met and made the best rock album of the 90s and ended rock on a big resounding note.

>>127660744
interesting thought

>>127658989 (OP)
the bass guitarist from Duran Duran
>b-b-b-bb-he's not indie

>>127658989 (OP)
im not a huge fan of their music but always thought this photo was kino af

>>127660628
It's not just riffs. Almost all his 90s songs are filled with very lyrical and complex melodies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdVFZ4yyLXo
>>127660744
He left because of personal conflicts with almost everyone involved. There were only two songs where he insisted on long guitar solos - Stay Together and The Wild Ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW9G0Xc1XiY

>>127661482
There was more than that.
They had studio material for the Asphalt World that was like 20 minutes, most of it was him noodling on the guitar.
He had a tendency to autistically wander into neverending guitar soundscapes and just getting stuck there
While the band wanted to sound somewhat accessible, they wanted to have songs not prog rock simphonies

>>127660744
>Bernard Butler was possibly the best guitarist in rock in the 90s, I said it before.
Billy Corgan mogged him

>>127658989 (OP)
Johnny Marr is one of the best guitarists in music, let alone indie

>>127661633
Bogan lacked Butler's artistry and soul

>>127658989 (OP)
Graham Coxon is really good too, very tasteful guitarist

no one mentioned itt could play a ratt solo

>>127661659
He peaked at 20. got too measured and restrained after that, never developed his sound beyond the first 2 smiths albums. His work has been awful since Electronic, he just retreated into repetitive looping riffs. his solo work is well constructed but sounds like it could've been written by anyone. He ruined modest mouse, contributed 0 to Oasis. his interpretations of other people's songs are poor (hendrix, dylan), just sound like pedestrian student playing.
I'd argue Butler is better but fucked up by being too inventive and unemployable as someone said upthread. Marr became a commercial gun for hire and lost himself and his sense of his own sound in the process. Overrated.

>>127661986
Then Butler is face of the same coin. Not worth material after the 90s

>>127661986
Hyperbole

>>127661986
Meanwhile Mozzer is having a permanent renaissance.

I agree but with the caveat that Coxon is equal in the opposite direction for making very atonal noise riffs work in campy pop songs, he filled a niche nobody else has replicated same as Butler

If I hadn't already bought my squire...

I think Maurice Deebank of Felt deserves a mention as far as guitarists in British indie with a very melodic, almost linear style of playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rilztbOAyH0

Most of their songs consist of quite simple chord progressions, but Deebank makes them into something really special. The same is true of Martin Duffy's keyboard playing on the later Felt records.

>>127659299
He'd nitpick and say that the amplification ruins all of the subtleties of the instrument

Vini Reilly

if I'm not tuning down, is it stupid to use 11 gauge strings?
Do they increase chances of fret buzz?
Are they harder to play?
What's the point?

>>127663166
They're harder to fret and bend, and you can use them in standard, but you need to adjust your truss rod and maybe lift your saddles a bit and fix intonation. Jazzers use 11s and 12s to start out. I used 12s in standard for a bit because I play bass guitar and I'm used to strings that fight back, but found them ultimately unpleasant to use

>>127662182
>red
what an ugly guitar, lmao

>>127661986
Marr's worst song with the Smiths is better than any Suede song. 'fraid so. Quit glazing they weren't that great anyway.
>>127662063
Moz, on the other hand, deserves the level of cock polishing you're giving Butler so get to it.

>>127662063
Pure Aura

OP living in an alternate reality
That guitarist, while he had tasteful riffs, would be more talked about if he was actually as virtuosic as you think

>>127660744
amazing photo, any info on it?

>>127666574
listen to Suede's instrumentals, on headphones
you don't know what you're talking about

>>127666574
Thread. Suede is somehow a bunch of middle of the road nobodies while also being overrated as hell.

>>127666592
https://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/story/9048733/another-silver-lining-for-aussie-at-world-canoe-titles/

>>127666574
He wasn't virtuosic, who claimed that.
He had this cool bluesy dirty sound that was very soulful but also very inventive. Somewhat similar to Page, but more modern.

>>127669614
yes, he was
even the Suede producer, Ed Buller, admits it
>There’s a Suede with Bernard and there’s a Suede without Bernard. The one without Bernard is a great band, a fantastic band and I’m very proud of Coming Up (pausing), it will be interesting to see if they decide to make another record, but the Suede with Bernard was just something completely different. Bernard’s the only person I’ve ever worked with in my entire career who I would call a virtuoso! A virtuoso is where the human-being and the instrument basically become one, and he’s the only person I’ve ever worked with who fits that bill. I’ve worked with some very, very talented musicians, but when Bernard picked up a guitar and started playing, it was just extraordinary! So that personality, is one of the things that I think a lot of people didn’t realise made Suede as good as they were, because maybe they don’t understand how hard it is to play the guitar in that way.

>>127660628
too effete

also, Felt was better

>>127670440
>also, Felt was better
lmao fuck off

For me, it's Heroine
https://youtu.be/x3fdsfCibAA?si=aJhWa7D5QTzLrnZy

>>127658989 (OP)
obligatory

>>127658989 (OP)
>literally just boomer blues licks and a few arpeggios
Are you serious?

>>127658989 (OP)
i'm light years beyond this guy

>>127671846
zionist

>>127658989 (OP)
nah, elliott smith was an incredible guitar player. heatmiser was blessed to have him

>>127658989 (OP)
What do you mean by "indie"? More chill stuff? Because some alt rock guys are outright shredders. Dave Navarro and Jerry Cantrell especially.

>>127673978
I like Neil Gust's guitar bits too, his high up repeating melodic bits on Still and Bastard John are super catchy
He had nothing on Elliott overall of course

>>127658989 (OP)
>No other "alternative" or indie rock band had a guitarist that good
Incorrect, The Mothers were indie up until the early 70's. Hope this helps!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0JTNVkhyS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGXfRlapd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBv-N4wx6_o