Thread 2020833

GPS used to be fancy, and is now affordable
Carbon frames used to be fancy, and are now affordable
Carbon aero wheels used to be fancy, and are now affordable
Hydraulic brakes used to be fancy, and are now affordable
Wireless shifting used to be fancy, and is now affordable
Good tires used to not even exist, and are now available albeit a little expensive
Lighting used to be heavy and annoying, now it clips to anything and you can light up the road with something the size of your thumb
Wide range cassettes used to be unimaginable, now some lazy people are even going 1x because they got filtered by 2x

It seems like it's all been done. Seriously, what's left. What else is there to improve? We even got bonuses like thru-axle, 3d printed saddles, internal routed everything, and aero frames/cockpits, which let's be honest, you weren't really expecting were you?

Can the cycling industry outdo itself or is it now a plateau of stagnation?

Bespoke geometry is still expensive. That would be a game changer. It's not that you can't shop around for the geometry you want in a prebuilt, but you can't really shop by other features because chances are the frame you wanted comes with a bunch of random choices you didn't want.

>>2020833 (OP)
>internal routed everything,
this isn't an improvement lol
>What else is there to improve?
I could just about see cheaper, better, more widespread planetary gearbox options. Ditto belt drive. Maybe more sophisticated leaf spring setups and flex points jnstead of pivots. arguably more durable carbon. Maybe more/better/cheaper dynamo hubs.

>>2020838
It sounds bad until you've lived with it for a while and then had to use a legacy style external cables bike. You think you're ready but the sight of all that disorganized clutter flapping in the wind immediately feels barbaric not to mention how it catches on everything. It's like going from bib shorts to baggy cargo shorts, except cargo shorts are actually useful whereas cables everywhere don't serve any useful purpose other than to make a few simple maintenance tasks simpler for simpletons.

>>2020833 (OP)
"Affordable". IMO they still got long ways to go. We also still have aero vs lightweight bikes. They should be lightweight and aero. The bikes also most get more durable. Wireless shifting still requires cables btw. We need to go completely wireless. Wireless brakes are also possible. We also need aero, cheap and protective clothes. The limit is your imagination.

>>2020833 (OP)
A proper, standardized dynamo that can power not only lights but also garmins, smartphone charger and electronic shifters.

Di2 is great, but I don’t need another battery to charge

>>2020852
Thing is a battery is swappable without hitting up Sotheby's Rare Books for an out of print book and apprenticing for 7 years under Jobst Brandt's reanimated zombie before rebuilding your wheelset if something goes bad, I can see the appeal if lighting is optional though but what they really need to do is a hot swappable dyno hub thing, a sort of "cartridge bearing of dynamos" if you will

>>2020843
brb catch cans for DOT fluid in my garage so I can adjust stack height, git tae fuck

>>2020858
>why don't I just pay more for something worse and make it turn my neighborhood into a superfund site every time I need to install new brake pads
it's a free country but you know shimano exists right/

>>2020843
I know you're just shitposting but the visible machinations of a bicycle, how it bears its workings on the surface, is one of its greatest charms, it is an honest machine.

much of this is lost in translation with hydraulic hoses and electronic shifting cables, because those things are not visible in operation and do not have an interesting journey across a frame with housing stops.
The need to hide 'clutter' is a sign of poor quality. You will see this in all forms of construction. A well made house will have less flushings and mouldings because there is care paid to the joins of materials.

>>2020852
The problem is that the psychological effect of losing 5-10w and ~200g is abhorrent to most people buying expensive road bikes, so it's never going to catch on.

And how exactly are modern dynamo hubs not standardized or proper enough? You can absolutely power other electronics with them. The setup is simply not idiot proof, and the differences amongst them exist because there are different standards they have to work around. But bikes in general are not idiot proof to setup, and less so now than before.
You aren't required to do it jankily though, there's just scope for excellent custom work. Many frames/forks nowadays are even designed for clean dynamo routing

>>2020833 (OP)
AXS batteries with usb-c
improved shifting modes
Classified hubs not just simulating a second chainring

>>2020833 (OP)
The real challenge lies in the industry digesting all of this stuff into better, more elegant and more reliable forms. Most cons00mers don't really notice or care about below-surface quality or simplicity so I'm not terribly hopeful it'll happen. We'll never get back to the kind of universality of standards we had in the 80's, but even moving a little bit that way would benefit the rider unfathomably.

Who knows what's around the corner though. Until the mountain bike boom and shimano takeover shook everything up, improvements had been scattered and relatively unexciting for decades. Especially in the U.S., if you were seriously riding in the 60's or 70's, it probably felt like, "now everyone has derailleurs, what else is there to come up with?!"

>>2020865
What's the story with this new-old looking stumpy, pretty cool

>>2020871
>Classified hubs not just simulating a second chainring
wdym? you'd put a classified on a 2x?

>>2020836
This, peak bike would be affordable custom geometry for every person for their unique purpose and biology.

>>2020866
I just think dynamo hubs are fugly. I hated powertap hubs too.

>>2020865
ai slop

>>2020913
with vistar powershift they did with trp they created a 1x system that has 15 gears on a 12 speed cassette. A normal 2x or a simulated second chainring has several similar gear ratios. Considering theyre developing this with TRP I'm not sure if we're seeing more of it in the future tho.

>>2020833 (OP)
now the race is to the bottom
all that, more affordable

>>2020925
what's the point of that?

>>2020944
you can achieve mullet range with smaller cassette, smaller tooth jumps and more gears

>>2020833 (OP)
Low rr airless tires
Still waiting for these

>>2020924
Bot post

>>2020949
>Still waiting for these
just 2 more weeks anon
we'll have airless spring tires just like the lunar rover
just 2 more weeks

I'm still looking forward to better-sealed, lower-friction hubs and bottom brackets.
It's silly that we are still using 100 year old bearing technology for the most part and the approach to poorly designed seals is just "uhhh replace your bearings/BB every two years or so".
And for that matter, fuck spokes too. Surely there is something better than spokes.

3lb motor that connects directly to cassette and is used as a boost to get back up to speed after stopping without shifting 783 times

analogue 'gear' shifting or gradient shifting
so your always getting precise power output

coupled with AI powered shifting computer that factors things like wind and preferential presets

tada, perfect cadence, all the time.

also airless tires are an indefinite gimmick.

>>2021097
>analogue 'gear' shifting or gradient shifting
like a car CVT?

>>2021100
>>2021097

>>2021118
>>2021097
>>2021100

Oops lol phone posting at work on the toilet

>>2021097
>shifting 783 times
you accidentally hit a bunch of keys instead of the "3" key

>>2021100
I don't know what his retarded pic is but yeah, they have it already . go ahead and get one , it's only six pounds
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission

>>2021097
>Airless tires are a gimmick (true) but an "AI powered shifting computer" is not

Whatever you say chief

13 speeds is more than enough, the industry needs to focus on something new. I want a gruppo that turns me into a girl cyclist.

>>2021232

if you think about it, the energy problem gears creates is beyond our bodily comprehension. there's an exact cadence for each gear to maximize power output, but even the highest skilled professionals with the best gear are going to miss that cadence target, either overshooting or underpowering by some %, those % add up to three things:
loss of speed
loss of energy
over-exertion on joints

I know it might sound like a detail or miniscule thing, if you had but one day to try the non-existent gradient 'transmission' bicycle, you'd probably cry. computerized shifting would be the last step in making gradient shifting work flawlessly, and AI to take in environmental and preferential data to create a truly seamless experience, but it can still be manual.

All of this stuff is inevitable, because there's literally no better solution to "digital" (as opposed to gradient or analogue) gear associated energy loss. it's just a matter of designing it, it'll sell itself.

Bikes are good enough, but carbon manufacturing quality is inconsistent in the industry. High quality frames should be expected to last decades of high mileage hard riding even for heavier riders. But more so than QA I think improvements to training are the best place to look at. I think the likes of Zwift have been a massive success and I’m eager to get an indoor setup of some sort going to help improve my IRL riding ability. Better tech and coaching aids out on the road could also factor in.

>>2021485
>High quality frames should be expected to last decades of high mileage hard riding even for heavier riders.
Quality aside (a more significant issue, yes) that means erring on the side of caution and overbuilding stuff.
there's a real charm to a bike which is dangerously light, people have always been attracted to those.
Hell pretty much any nice light metal bike dents the top tube when you look at it wrong.

>>2021486
The gaspipe crowd will never get this, they think their overbuilt BSO is the same thing as reynolds 853

>inertial guidance
>aerogel frame
>solid aerogel wheel
>reverse thruster braking
>cable shifting as God intended
>straight up mall crawler offroad light bars for fenders
>0X rings replace 1X

titanium everything, you can already see it coming down in price
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/state-s-titanium-all-road-is-the-cycling-treat-we-ve-been-waiting-for-priced-at-2500-240511.html

I don't like now. I do not look towards the future. Bring back 531, rim brakes, quill stems and 27 1/4"

>>2020865
>the visible machinations of a bicycle, how it bears its workings on the surface, is one of its greatest charms, it is an honest machine.
That's a very nice turn of phrase Anon.

>>2020833 (OP)
1. Better manufacturing tolerances. Right now the tolerances for even multi-thousand dollar frames are hilariously off-center.
2. Reducing the # of gears and shrinking the sprocket in the back for greater aero/wheel efficiency, reducing offset of spoke dish.
3. Better bearing setups (roller bearings everywhere to fuck up compatibility even more)
4. Aerodynamic frames and smaller motorized derailleur battery packs, thanks to solid-state-batteries
5. Thinner hubs
6. Universal thru-axle (like SRAM's UDH, but some kind of interchangeability for thru-axles would be good).
7. Scanned saddles that will adjust the 3D print to match your sit-bones as you sit bare-ass in the back of the bike shop while the machine takes a 3D Scan of your ass.

Also, I know that never, ever, will we see more reliability. I finished a charity ride. Every hill, I saw several broken down bikes. Snapped chains, flats, dropped chains, countless other failures. Do people just not maintain their shit, or what?
I swear it wasn't this bad before.

We all know what the next step in cycling looks like. You might not like it, but this is peak performance.

>>2022227
Dental floss chains. Just wait until we get to 18 speed systems with giga boost spacing

>>2022476
Indeed. Soon we'll get to change chains more than we change our underwear

>>2020851
Wireless brakes are 100% possible to be sold affordably if shifters are, the barrier is safety legislation (rightfully so)

>>2020833 (OP)
>GPS
Still expensive or unusable. Anything with a decent battery life and somewhat bearable navigation costs a lot.
>Carbon frames
Are still expensive and shit. Instead of making it indestructible they make it disposable. But they are 10gr lighter! Wow!
>Wireless shifting
Absolutely useless.

>>2020833 (OP)
>Wide range cassettes used to be unimaginable
the ooga booga leg strong types did not need them, therefore none were made.

>>2022749
Carbon frames are cheaper than steel frames these days unless you're just talking gaspipe which you are, but I'm just saying in general, for bikes that people would voluntarily ride if they weren't DUI freaks on "abandoned bike" frankenbuilds

>>2020833 (OP)
Bicycles haven't changed in 50 years pretty much because they reached perfection. It's the ultimate transportation vehicle

>>2020833 (OP)
>GPS
$200 for an Edge 130
>Carbon frames
>aero wheels
Prices up 50% from 5 years ago just like everything else, chinkshit market share spiking.
>Hydraulic brakes
>Wireless shifting
No, you just don't notice the massive price difference anymore because the equivalent rim brake/mechanical bikes were all discontinued.


None of that is "affordable", they've just deleted anyone who isn't rich from their customer base so the dwindling number of people who are left don't complain as much.

>>2022767
>Carbon frames are cheaper than steel frames these days
Because carbon is mass market while steel is pretty much confined to boutique custom frames and walmart DUI bikes.

>>2024023
If you can't find complete rim brake gruppos on your own just about anywhere that sells bikes and components you should probably give POA to one of your gen X kids because you are no longer able to function in modern society without everyday help

>>2024047
This thread is about affordability, seethe-kun. Raging at people won't magically give them the disposable income to blow 3 grand on aluminum 105 mechanical.

>>2024049
>unironically paying the NPC tax
Aluminum™ is a registered trademark of the Specialized™ bike corporation, a fact which you explicitly acknowledged and agreed to when you opened a Specialized™ inner tube in june 2017, you now owe Mike™ Sinyard™ $60,000,000 for typing those words on your Computer™ screen

>>2024049
>worth it to btfo the rimchuds.

>Ctrl+F "bent"
>0 results

>>2024025
eh I mean there's maxway tier, but that has plenty of carbon counterparts too

>>2024052
>this is what they took from you
(though that was before the great pandemic inflation, too...)
in all srsness been thinking about a Chiner rim build or trying to find a last-gen rim brake TCR

>>2021767
Tbh that bikes looks kinda cool. I imagine 50 years from now road bikes will look like this but with elastomer suspension

>>2022227
Hubs have been getting wider hombre not narrower

>>2024076
Tbqh all bikes should have suspension but the key point here is that you should be able to set it back to 0 suspension with a button and that it should be lightweight. UCI haters say that the 6kg limit should be removed but in reality bikes should be more durable and be able to include stuff like that rather than being just lightweight.

>>2024088
>you should be able to set it back to 0 suspension with a button
even fairly basic suspension forks have a lockout

what you're missing is that a decent rigid fork offers passive suspension. Many of them visibly flex going over bumps. Suspension forks and the frames designed to accommodate them are meant to be as stiff as possible. So a decent rigid fork is far more comfortable than a locked out suspension fork.

>>2024100
what's your definition of "decent"

I've got a new one. We need ERG mode drive trains. This would basically give you infinite gears.

>>2027594
what's erg? equity, reparations, and gender bending? if so I would like more of this too

>>2027594
This reality is close, mechanically geared CVTs are near production and power sensors are becoming more accessible. Give it a computer brain to automate the gearing ratio within a specified power target and there you go, work based output.

>>2024049
>It’s details like the most complex alloy head tube we’ve ever made and integrated cables that make it 41 seconds faster over 40km than the previous Allez Sprint. That’s a hell of a facelift. With 41 seconds, you’d have a podium picture in your Insta feed, just saying.

just sayiing

>ctrl-f
>power meters
>not found

>>2024052
that seat tube makes me want to dry heave

>>2022227
do they even need to be better though? all the crying about bottom bracket shells was proven to be a hambini marketing scheme? 99% of freds complaining that their BB was creaking turned out to be something stupid like the saddle rail clamp or the shoes/pedals

>>2037378
>creaking turned out to be something stupid like the saddle rail clamp
Lol, this was me

>>2021767

>full sus for off-road use
>have a rear derailleur without clutch

why? Especially on a use case where chain slap is to be expected

>>2020838
This
>>2020843
My carbon fork is internal routing ready. Tried it; never again.
>Removing brake hose
>Removing hose olive
>Refitting
>Purging
Fuck that shit

>>2020916
You can't even get crank lengths other than stupid 175; 170 if lucky. 165 and you virtually won the lottery...

>>2020949
Nice mud brick you got there; hate it if it snagged on something...

>>2037670
And let's not even talk about wheels
>Be a kid
>1 m to 1.5 m tall
>Any wheel size between 12 to 24 in.
>Be an adult
>1.5 to 2 m tall
>Any wheel size, as long as it's 29 in.

>>2020833 (OP)
More like plateau of stagflation

>>2037670
crank lengths are not much of a problem as long as you're not picky about the speeds or the number of chainrings or the brand

Seamless ebikes that integrate the battery and motor into the frame in a way that does not look like chinkshit with xbox hueg down tubes and bulbus mid drives. ECVT drivetrains for ebikes that allow the rider to pedal at a desired pedal assist level and maintain a constant wattage without having to shift.

>>2020833 (OP)
Dropper posts.
God, please give me easier droppers, they'd be so sick. Give me a kit that helps me put a dropper on anything I want. Like my damn vintage full suspension.

>>2020833 (OP)
>Carbon frames used to be fancy, and are now affordable

Anyone who buys cheap carbon gets what they deserve. Failure mode is catastrophic.

>>2041753
Stockton and you have something in common: a poor understanding of what applications different materials are good for

.

>>2041753
>build sub out of carbon
>call it titan
what a moron

>>2039699
underrated post

>>2044788
I thought the dome was titanium though

>>2024052
why would they do this?

>>2020865
>paying $4000 for an ok bike frame to win an internet argument in your head
Do 90s MTB hipsters really?

>>2020949
you know they'll make it some proprietary rubber covered bullshit instead of making spring "tubes" and it'll cost 3x the amount to replace your tires

>>2054187
Yeah and the tires will last 11x as long and never flat but luddites and retrogrouches will still rail against them because you can't use a tire lever and a frame pump anymore

>>2054194
,
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>>2054203
37
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>>2054192
>tires will last 11x as long
so are they making the tread 11x thicker? using 11x stronger rubber? Don't tell me you're planning on running metal to asphalt like some crackhead

>>2020833 (OP)
What's even the point of having a carbon frame if it's not fancy?

>>2054208
it's a hypothetical situation so they can do whatever they want and anything you say in response will make you sound like a luddite who still rides 17mm tubulars

>>2054218
because $1200 gets you a pretty respectable carbon frameset, good luck finding a steel frameset at that price that isn't some gaspipe shitter with a thru axle front fork and a QR rear dropout or some awful shit like that

"good" steel frames cost more than an entire carbon bike

>>2020833 (OP)
Ability to upload a design in photoshop format etc and have it printed on your frame + wheels. Yes I want to have a bike plastered with anime.

>>2021097
>coupled with AI powered shifting computer
the automotive industry has been trying ot make "automated manual transmission" a thing for like 50 years and it has never once been good. either just let people decide when to shift (which is more fun anyway) or use a slushbox like the animal you are

>>2020843
>i want the things I own to be completely unmaintainable
why is nearly everyone like this these days

>>2056206
I would rather have something that works perfectly 99% of the time and requires maintenance once every couple of years than something that breaks constantly but I can fix it by smearing a bucket of grease all over it and whacking it with a sledge hammer every 3 days
>these days
I'm probably older than your dad and I remember bikes getting flat tires multiple times a month and cars being so shitty everyone with a little money had several because one was always experiencing mechanical problems, so don't tell me about "these days" because you are a spoiled child who takes it for granted that things work

>>2056207
you sound like a shitty repairman. maybe you should invest in more tools than a sledgehammer and a pot of used motor oil

>>2056210
to some extent yeah, not having to constantly fiddle with crap that barely works puts you out of practice. take tires for instance. I used to be very good at changing inner tubes on the side of the road. this started to become less of a problem in the last 15 years as clinchers progressively got better, and when tubeless came to road bikes that was the death of constant flats

there was a period when I still carried a tube "just in case", and I stopped to help a fred who has having trouble and was unable to patch his tube. and behold, it turns out I was out of practice myself, and we both had a good laugh at how shitty we were at it, despite a perfectly good tube and friendly weather conditions (you have probably never changed a tube at 10 below, trust me it's not fun)

went a few more years with a spare tube but desu even seeing roadies with flats is getting rather rare now. I'm sure you lament that fact but for me it's a sign of progress, which, to you, is a dirty word, so agree to disagree I guess. have fun flashing new firmware on your WRT-54G that you refuse to upgrade because the jews or something

>>2056213
>>2056207

you don't ride
please find your way back to /pol/ or whatever asshole you crawled out of

>>2056214
tinkering with broken shit you stole out of a dumpster isn't riding, and pasting command line shit from chatgpt into zsh doesn't make you a hacker

>>2056215
just for this I'm going to stuxnet your derailleur into your spokes on your next PR descent

>>2020833 (OP)
>What else is there to improve?
i'd like a head unit that's just a small screen that mirrors my phone, so i can have navigation/media control without damaging it or having it stolen

>>2021297
Finally someone who gets it

>>2056213
>tubeless
Lol!

>>2024052
everything about this bicycle is wrong.

>>2020833 (OP)
I want power meters so cheap, small, and accurate we can install it into everything to measure the horsepower of random stuff

>>2056246
you could already get "bike computers" at a dollar store by 1999

>>2056263
I don't want a "bike computer," I don't really care about mph or distance travel, I'm interested in actual wattage, not estimates but measured

>>2056269
Unless you want an analog strain gauge and a steam-controlled readout, you're getting a computer, sorry luddite

>>2021297
>>2056229
that's actually so hot, damn

>>2020949
>gravel gets in the way

>>2056853
They will be covered in rubber ding dong