Thread 2044302

Post road network gore.

>>2044302 (OP)
>Highways in a commercial district where nobody lives anyways? I'm going INSAAAAANE!

>>2044303
get in

>>2044303
This >>2044302 (OP) really is grim. Then again cities and town are grim. I avoid them and only venture there when I must, like doctor or shop.

>>2044302 (OP)
Where's that?

Mass. Turnpike slicing through the Fenway/Kenmore area in Boston. Just brutal. Hope they figure out how to build on top of it some day.

>>2044414
The same thing creating a giant wall between the South End and Chinatown and Back Bay areas.

>>2044414
>>2044416
>creating a giant wall
The railroad tracks in both pics already did that

>>2044418
I guess that's true. Still, there'd be less empty space necessary if the roads could be built upon or just weren't there, no?

>>2044414
what do you mean "figure" ?
2 lanes is only 20 feet, you could easily build on top of pillars spaced 20 feet apart

>>2044304
>What's THIS??
>Oh my science is that a-a-a-a-a-a-FREEWAY????
>And it's "gasp"! Surrounding an AIRPORT? AKA A place that has zero property value for homes anyways do to noise pollution????
>ACK! HOLD ME TYRONE I'M GOING INSANE WE NEED TO ABOLISH CARS!

>>2044459
Tell me why I need to go around 6 loop-the-loops and 47 spirals to go to 1 place

>>2044460
To slow the flow of traffic down, that's literally the point. Are you just illiterate about public infrastructure in general?

>>2044461
gotta go fast man

>>2044463
Yes, when you're on the freeway, not when you're getting off of it though

>>2044463
stupid retard

>>2044449
It's just a highway interchange conveniently with the train lines off to the right cropped out and there was literally nothing there to replace (no street grid, not much of anything). At this point there's nothing to really talk about beyond wheeling out the "but think of the apartments we could've crammed here" argument.

>>2044413
Look up
Dyer Ave & W 40th St, NYC

I'm not familiar with the area, but those buildings in the lower right, the stepped setbacks are very characteristic.

>>2044414
>>2044416
just do it bro

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger_Deckel
sorry there is no english version for this article

>>2044303
50k people live in the neighbourhood it's located in (smaller than one sq mi) that's definitely more than your flyover county

>>2046319
>neighbourhood
Foreigner lol

>>2046324
I'm a native where I live

>>2044302 (OP)
>gore
I love twisty, winding urban highways like this.
Especially driving on them at night when almost nobody else is around.

>>2046991
notice the bike lanes and bus stop with solar cells on the roof. Even China is ahead of the US now.

>>2046991
When you build a Cities Skylines interchange irl

All roads are gore. Where is everyone going? Why do they need to go so far away from where they were? Personally I've seen people go on 20+ mile journeys just to get fast food even though they already had food at home. Sometimes they'll drive 30 minutes just to look at some junk at Walmart. They'll get a job in an office that could be done remote, but their boss makes them drive an hour every day.

>>2046997
>left hand drive
>China
Anon, it's even worse than you think.
This is India.

>>2044302 (OP)
A fucking western city did this abomination.
Even more shamefully, I've gotten used to it.

>>2047336
>I have no idea how the road network works and will make up ridiculous hypotheticals to justify my view
>Despite that fact, I'm sure that MY transportation views have merit and will work

>>2044414
These plots >>2044416 along the MassPike are already develop-able, and have been since before the Big Dig started. If I remember right, there are something like 25 parcels starting from where Commonwealth Ave passes over the Pike, going all the way to where Harrison goes over before the Fort Point tunnel. The Hynes Convention Center, a portion of the Prudential Center (but not the tower), and the new Car Gurus headquarters all used some of those parcels.

The problem is that despite the air rights being available and fairly cheap, the construction and engineering costs are way higher, and it has only been recently that the cost of land elsewhere in the region has made these parcels viable. As I understand it now, there are at least two additional projects filling in sections near Fenway/BU. However, it will probably be decades before the whole thing is filled in - it'd likely take a concerted effort from the city with tens of billions in funding to get it done in my lifetime.

>>2047594
okay

Meanwhile in Europe.

>>2047792
I can't tell if this is supposed to be good or not anymore.
>mess of medieval buildings with no street names, just whatever they could fit in there
>hasn't changed too much since medieval times save for some new roofs
>only a single warning light for a pedestrian crossing

>>2048001
>I can't tell if this is supposed to be good or not anymore.
It's neither, these threads are always full of retards who post aerial images of random cities without context other than "infrastructure bad" without further elaboration because "Urbanism" isn't a real discipline and is largely just pseudoscience that literally nobody outside of a handful of online echo chambers take seriously. Retards genuinely think they're being profound when they strawman highway layouts and suggest they could be used for apartment blocks instead. It's fucking maddening watching these retards talk to eachother and base their beliefs on public infrastructure purely on personal feelings instead of how each part fits into the bigger whole.

>>2047996
lmagine how fast traffic would flow there if they built just one more lane.

>>2048046
This might surprise you anon, but most highways, including the one in that image, will feature a right lane to facilitate merging and getting off, as freeways typically have multiple exits, and thus most people in that image are in fact not going to be driving the full length of that freeway. They also feature a central passing lane, and a fast lane. They are not going to add an extra lane as a stop-gap solution for traffic. This is something that does not happen in reality and only in the strawman inside of your head that you created to invent things to get upset over.

>>2048048
Are you seriously claiming that Highway widening projects don't exist?

>>2048049
Most highways simply cannot be widened, because pesky infrastructure and geography tend to get in the way of that. Highway widening projects may exist along desert and plains routes where nobody lives anyways but not in that webm

We have the H3 on Oahu. Perhaps the most expensive highway ever, over a billion dollars. Exempted from all environmental concerns because it was part of the Defense budget. Nobody actually travels to where it goes, the only reason to use it is because a road that would be more direct will have perhaps the worst traffic in the country.

>>2048209
That unironically looks really cool though, almost reminds me of Frutiger Aero but in real life

>>2048046
It would unironically improve. No, "just one more lane" wouldn't fix things for good since population has grown >20x since the highways were built, but it definitely helps.

>>2044303
>a commercial district

>>2048209
>H3 runs from Pearl Harbor to Marine Corps Base Hawaii
>H2 runs from Pearl Harbor to the Army's Schofield Barracks
>H1 runs from Pearl Harbor to the oil and gas harbor and refinery
Is there anything happening on that island aside from the military and the Dole fruit plantation?

>>2048382
>Is there anything happening on that island aside from the military and the Dole fruit plantation?
Tourism

>>2044460
That's the Manhattan bus depot. Your precious mass transit is the one using most of those loop de loops, the rest are separate tubes of the Lincoln Tunnel to NJ, with the middle one switching travel direction midday.

Pic related is 99 percent of "urbanism" in a nutshell

L'échangeur Turcot

Here's something subtle.
US 71 in Kansas City is built to freeway-grade and is a natural extension of I-49.
However, as it passes through a random neighborhood, it reverts down to city streets for about 2 miles.
It has just TWO level intersections, and they are the most dangerous in the whole region.
This is the result of a "freeway revolt" back in the day, and this was the compromise that was supposed to avoid splitting up the neighborhood. Now we have the worst of both worlds.

Cinncenati core

>>2048382
Nope.
There's a lot of Hawaiians moving to the west coast because not only is it expensive to live on Hawaii, but the average wage is also terrible.

>>2048050
They widened the 405 in LA a while back. That was a big project and did actually have a noticeable impact. It's mostly remembered now for the fact that they had to close it entirely for a few days to replace a bridge, which led to people predicting a never-before-seen traffic nightmare that became known as "carmageddon," and then when it actually happened people were so scared of the traffic that nobody left the house and those days ended up having way lighter than normal traffic.

>>2048880
The Sepulvida Pass Improvement Project focused specifically on a 10 mile stretch of overpass anon. In that particular instance they could widen the freeway because it was over an existing bridge.

>>2048882
And?

Would you rather work in transportation or manufacturing?

>>2046324
Why what word would you use?

>>2049004
I'm soure you'll figoure it out, ounce you've thought about it thouroughly.

Oof

>>2049193
the street looks like dogshit in both pictures but it's harder to tell on the top one because the photo quality is worse, and nobody is using that road in any case. This is just another shallow appeal to emotion fallacy by urbanistfags,

>>2049193
And there it is.

>>2049193
Man that is a fuckton of leveled buildings
Houses, stores, offices, all in classical architecture with good building materials.

>>2049228
Man! That is so true, Chang.

>>2048001
>>only a single warning light for a pedestrian crossing
In most of europe, we can walk on the streets. We only need crossings in traffic busy areas.

>>2049230
damn, you don't have cars in Europe? times are tough.

This thread makes me want to play Transport Fever 2 again.

Damn that is a lot of buildings removed.

>>2049506
At least use the same area if you're going to do before/after comparisons. The Ohio River (telling you that since you're foreign) on the bottom right of the 2021 photo isn't there in the old photo.

>>2049506
Wow, they built a river and everything!

>>2049506
>Oil addicted boomer vroomers caused the housing crisis by replacing housing with highways and parking lots and megamarts

>>2049506
paris of the americas

>>2049625
>It's going take PennDOT years and years and hundreds of millions of dollars to fix this.

I'm surprised nobody has posted Cairo yet

>>2049638
99 percent of urbanists are sheltered westoids that don't even realize other countries outside the western world exist

>>2049639
Not true. Urbanists are also obsessed with East Asia.

>>2049640
Which I find especially amusing because public infrastructure in places like China are heavily modeled after the United States

>>2049642
Even Japan and Korea are incredibly car friendly outside the metropolises. I'm convinced the dream city urbanists dream of can't actually be built.

>>2049644
>I'm convinced the dream city urbanists dream of can't actually be built.
I've been to London a couple of times in the last few years, and it's feels to be like London is pretty close.
It's subjective though, of course.

>>2049639
That's because only the Western world matters

Seethe all you want about it (and you will), but everybody else is just scrounging at the scraps from our table

>>2049561
boat roads matter too!

>>2049718
>Just one more canal and the river traffic will be manageable
When will the floating cagers admit we need a river train?

>>2049644
>b-b-b-but Amsterdam
e-urbanists won't ever concede that the Netherlands are the perfect storm and can't be replicated anywhere else.
>completely flat
>pretty densely populated but not so dense that you have enormous urban sprawl with high habitation towers
>rich and growing richer at the time of the transit overhaul
As nice as it would be to have multi-modal cities everywhere, you're JUST going to have places with too much snowfall or wind or heavy rain for year-round cycling ; or that are too steep for trams ; or can't build subways because of the soil and gradiant...
Not to mention, all of that causes instant gentrification once work is complete which is great because if there's one thing we need it's to make housing more expensive.

>>2049625
fuckin' love breezewood
i used to stop for dinner there all the time
even spent the night there once
just to the east you can go visit the abandoned PA turnpike tunnels too

>>2049506
Why not just build a greenfield new city at this point?

>>2049731
That's been done too. Places like Buckhead, Georgia. It's often derided as "white flight".

>>2049731
That wouldn’t serve anyone’s uses for the space. What people really need is housing there.

>>2049736
Buckhead Georgia is full of highrise skyscrapers and hotels you mongoloid

>>2049563
That’s pretty accurate. Thank God modern Americans are realizing how stupid parking minimums are and rapidly ending them.

>>2049766
>Buckhead Georgia is full of highrise skyscrapers and hotels you mongoloid
You need to read the entire conversation instead of going into an autistic rage from a single reply.

>>2049768
How's the weather in Shenzhen?

Brutal.

>>2049773
Wow. Brutal no matter how many times you post it, Chang.

>>2049773
I don't get the point of the comparison.
You can still find crowded city streets like that all over the place.

>>2049773
I like the coloring job they did on the old pic...I wonder if I can scrounge up other restored photos of vintage Kansas City

>>2049908
>Transportation?

>>2049773
>reeee why don't cities look the same 150 years later

>>2049638
Naypyidaw is fascinating too

>>2050288
2x8 road with an uncontrolled intersection and pedestrian crossing

>>2050289
Roundabout with 5+1 lanes

>>2049727
>>2049644
Japan is actually an interesting mix, I found Tokyo fascinating how it has lots of xboxhueg roadways, but still manages to have cozy neighborhoods in between. Maybe not perfect, but definitely better than average mutt city planning.

Switzerland is very good to, although cities were never bike-friendly and trying to make them so is making everything much worse than it used to be. I still think Transit as max priority followed by pedestrians followed by car traffic is the ideal hierarchy. Fuck bikes they can go ride in the countryside, no one needs them in the city unless they ride in mixed traffic then I don't care.

>>2050288
>>2050289
>>2050290
GENIUS design actually because it perfectly accounts for the fact that nobody ever drives there since Naypiyadaw is a ghost town.

>>2044302 (OP)
>6 + 2 lane arterial road running cars into city centre
>build during car-boom era, reminiscent of urban highways
>city is slowly limiting car access in city centre
>city is also in slow process of removing highways that feed into the centre
>there are two highways feeding to this arterial
>one of these (HW2) is already severed in capacity as it turns to street-level road that runs through new housing developments
>(some) politicians push for plans to connect HW2 and the arterial with a tunnel
>this would go against the long-term goals
>traffic """models""" are fiddled with to show catastrophic congestion without the tunnel
>no one is willing to discuss congestion pricing though because "we don't have congestion"
>impact assesment report gets missunderstood and some politicians start to push the narrative that the tunnel is absolutely necessary for certain PT projects
>or that by promoting the tunnel you promote PT
>turns out its not necessary, you can just build dedicated ROW and the car congestion wont matter
>others are against the tunnel not only because of the price tag, but also as the long tunnel ramps limit pedestrian accessibility and go agains the "less cars in the city" goal
>no final decision on the tunnel (180 million €) yet, but when the street is resurfaced the northern tunnel entrance is dug out "just in case" and then buried in sand
>50 million € buried in sand

>arterial is thus bottlenecked on both ends, more severly in downtown end

>new plans to erect housing on the both sides of the said arterial
>new street plans are drawn
>road alignment is slighty changed
>all lanes are still there
>plans miss pedestrian access because of ((traffic flow))
>doesn't improve existing residents' access to waterfront

long webs of traffic engineering, where land value is 0 and only the flow matters, reach their tangles to all city planning affairs

>>2050290
Cyclists wanting to go straight can get fucked I guess.

>>2050289
it's just for military parades, right?

>>2050347
no, it's for landing military planes on

>>2044414
They’re currently working on a pretty big air rights project right in the Fenway-Kenmore area. It’s been slow going but should be a solid improvement when it’s done, iirc it’s planned to be a tower with apartments and lab space with walking paths and a small park surrounding it. As far as I know they’re still working on putting up all the support pillars (slow going because they’re avoiding shutting down the pike) but it’s progressing.

>>2050337
>traffic """models""" are fiddled with to show catastrophic congestion without the tunnel
Well yeah, when you remove a major, well-trafficked road with no other major changes you get more congestion elsewhere. The FSK bridge collapse showed what would happen if you removed highway capacity on a major well-trafficked route with no other changes, and other roads got more congested elsewhere.

>>2049193
did Cincinnati get nuked?

>>2050671
>City is on a river
>Shoreline is for docks and manufacturing
>Undesirable, polluted area often surrounded by slums
>Manufacturing/river trade declines; area becomes blighted
>"Where should we put the new freeways?"
>"Tear down all that abandoned shit by the river"

>>2044303
>>2044459
excuse me but who are you quoting?

>>2049004
da hood senpai

>>2050671
no it got nigged.

>>2049529
>rivers..... move?

>>2050719
Look on a map lazyass

>>2050670
There never was a HW2 straight to the city, the on street capacity now is approximately the same it was 15 years ago. One paraller road was made public transport only, which pushed cars to this section and made them use eastern HW2 -> road-in-question connection that was very underused before (as it was surrounded by greenfields and lead to industrial area, now its surrounded by housing development). The on-street traffic volumes today are larger than they were in models "with the tunnel implemented" made about 15 years ago AND the traffic is fine.

There are two problems with the models and how they were used. Firstly, models showed there would be on average 10 km/h traffic on about 400 yard portion (black), meaning that travel times would increase by 3-4 minutes during peak congestion. In public debate and political decision making (by the experts!) this was framed as gridlock, when in fact everyone would get to their destinations just 4 minutes later. Congestion pricing model and its impact on traffic, as an alternative for the tunnel, was never researched. Other options, like limiting certain left-turns or bridges that skip the problematic northern intersection were also never researched.

Another problem was was that forementioned "gridlock" was bundled with the unfounded claim that the congestion (because of the lack of tunnel) would make public transport corridor (light rail) impossible to implement, wish just wasn't true. This went even a bit further, with claims that free traffic flow is key to all development around this very urban area. All other projects could of course be developed without the tunnel, at the (rather minimal) cost of traffic clow. City has strategic priority list (1. pedestrian, 2. cycling, 3. public transport, 4. freight, 5. private car) but for whatever reason here it is once again ignored.

captcha: GRONG

>>2046997
yeah that totally makes it soooo much better.

>>2050799
>In public debate and political decision making (by the experts!) this was framed as gridlock, when in fact everyone would get to their destinations just 4 minutes later.
Increasing times by 4 minutes is a significant increase, it means your commute (accounting for both directions, assuming 30 minutes each way) has just gotten 13% longer just in a small section alone.
>Congestion pricing model and its impact on traffic, as an alternative for the tunnel
Congestion pricing is just another fancy name for a new tax, and congestion pricing advocates NEVER advocate for putting that money back into the highway system.
>where land value is 0
I've never gotten the hang-up about land value because it only works insomuch that you have something better and more profitable to develop off of. In real life, parking lots in downtown areas still exist because the land value is high enough that you would need something that makes a lot of money to make a return on investment, and sometimes they do get redeveloped into large buildings and/or luxury apartment complexes. In abstract models promoted in urbanist circles, the downtown areas are best suited by ultra-dense buildings, which means by the same token the downtown Helsinki area should be replaced by skyscrapers.

>>2050799
>Congestion pricing model
Oh boy, let's charge people money for commuting to work! That will reduce traffic because... uhh...

>>2050847
because people will work from home whenever possible for more spending money, people will switch to public transportation or bicycles if possible, people will take this as the final nudge to switch to a job that doesn't need commuting through the congestion zone, people will start thinking about carpooling.
All of which reduces traffic through the congestion zone.

>>2050905
>Wtf I love regressive taxation now

>>2050905
>people will take this as the final nudge to switch to a job
somewhere that doesn't have commie-ass regressive taxes, thereby depriving your city of the economic benefits of that citizen? Good job, faggot.

>>2050337
Nice to see that Europe sometimes has the same issues we do, with regards to idiotic city governments.

>>2050905
>people will switch to public transportation or bicycles if possible
amazing takes on the very opposite of reality as always here on /n/

>>2048046
"A few more lanes" is a retarded boomer take.
Unless you widen the road from start to finish, including the connecting inner city roads, all this does is create new bottlenecks or at best move the current ones further.

>>2051352
>mOrE lAnEs HaS nEvEr AcTuAlLy BeEn TrIeD

>>2051353
It has been tried, many times, and every time it has not achieved its desired results.

Might aswell chime in. In my immediate vincinity everything is fine and great but it's bc I live in the sticks.
If I ever have to go to the next town I am always reminded of human stupidity not knowing bounds. A few examples:
They have a central station. In front of the station the city chose to mark the road in a different color. Like a pedestrian crossing but solid white and without the traffic signs. The law says the sign is what makes a pedestrian crossing. This arrangement incites some pedestrians to just step in the road and also some cagers to brake. It leads to all the situations you'd expect: Cagers assuming it's a crossing and thus stopping while pedestrians who understand it is not stop too aswell as pedestrians stepping in the road promting cagers to e-brake.
Next one: They have a roundabout where one exit has a seperate exit for the bicycle lane. The cager exit is single lane. But: Immediately following the exit another lane, priority bus lane is introduced. The bicycle lane merges into the bus lane. The bus takes the cager exit and then moves over into the bus line. So the bus has trouble moving over since there is bicycle traffic on the right. (Did I mention bicycle lanes suck/and are a cager conspiracy?) Next there is a light. The bus only lane ends at the light. So the bus only lane is 100m perhaps. Wow. 50m after the light there is an intersection where it's popular for the cagers to turn right. You know what happens:
You're waiting at the line on your bicycle, looking to go straight, and on, our left theres a cager wanting to turn right. The light changes, the cager compulsory tries to merge infront of you because cagebrain. Hence the cager floors it. As a result the cager following them does so too because cagebrain. The cager then either just runs you over intentionally when running out of space, or slams the brakes to finally wait for there to be space to move over and then turn. They will then either almost get rear ended or the (...)

>>2051355
(...) or the cager in behind will evade to the right and either get hit when cager in front turns or hit the cyclist. Because cagebrain.
All for 100m bus priority line.
Seen that almost happen every day when I studied in town and seen those crashes actually manifest several times.
I dislike towns and cagery so much it's unreal.

>here's your not crosswalk bro.
>we specifically made it to motivate NPCs to step in the road and cagers stop for no reason

wtf Alaska?

>>2049193
>>2049773
>cars destroyed our cities
It definitely wasn't cars that destroyed these cities

>>2049644
being more car friendly than tokyo is nowhere near how bad the US is, only really small towns in japan have no transit and even then people overall drive smaller vehicles and have safer roads so it's a lot easier to safely walk in a suburban area.

>>2051393
car and the automobile lobby did

>>2051399
I don't live there and don't give a shit

>>2051401
You've got 1 more guess remaining

>>2051403
motorists.

>>2051354
The problem is that is that population has increased manyfold since highways were built and every new lane is a bandage on an ever-growing problem. It helps, but the problem doesn't go away, especially in cities in that don't grow. Retards take this to mean that it is entirely useless and that we shouldn't expand highways at all (the growth will still happen) or that the highway system is overbuilt as is (it isn't).

>>2044416
Update: like that other anon said this is actually developable and they're working on it.
https://www.boston.gov/departments/transportation/reconnecting-chinatown

It looks like at least one parcel is gonna be a park, and the others might see some buildings?

>>2050288
>>2050329
>Naypiyadaw
Basically a sham city created so the military junta can hide from insurrectionists, which is exactly what happened a couple of years ago. Sort of like Brasilia but people actually live there.

>>2051747
>>2044416
huh, it also looks like some development over the fenway area has been going on for some time. i probably should've researched a little before posting.

>>2052153
not that bad

Jacksonville

>>2044449
Needs more lanes