Thread 2049551

They're the definition of cattle class. They're slow, expensive, and you're sleeping in a tiny room with total strangers. Any sleeper route can be better served by a low-cost airline, and cheaper to boot. Sleeper trains made sense in the 19th century when they were the only option, but they make absolutely no sense today.

>>2049551 (OP)
Because when you're going on a sleeper train route, you're not doing it for cost (driving is cheaper) or speed (flying is faster), you're doing it because you want to, because there's something about rail travel that people still like and will pay money for (it's more of a "land cruise").

>>2049551 (OP)
They exist because there are still massive countries where it is still way cheaper to travel by it than a plane. Look at ukraine, russia, china and whatnot. 90% of the population are still to poor to fly.
Also lying in bed and travelling hundreds of miles while you sleep is pretty time efficient.

>>2049551 (OP)
In modern sleeper trains you can book a private room. I travelled to Czechia with my wife on a sleeper, we had a private room. It cost about the same as flying, but it was comfy and no airport hassle, we just woke up and arrived in the main station.

>>2049551 (OP)
first of all, it's only at all comparable when fuel is subsidized and relatively low volume. in japan, the plane is more expensive because the fuel is expensive. in russia, fuel is cheap but prices are still very similar. in india, planes are simply unfeasible.
second, sleeper train's worth is not just transportation, it's also accomodation- in many cases the entire journey is cheaper than a hotel room for a night.
third, talking with strangers is a part of the experience, and if you don't want that, you pay a bit more and take a coupe.

In EU there is a huge demand for slow sleeper train travel since it is considered a sustainable alternative to driving/flying and considered an adventure. It's also an alternative to daytime high speed train hassle as having to switch 5x and missing the connection train 4x.
Current demand can't be fulfilled, prices are high and trains are booked out months prior (at least everytime I checked). Various train operators plan to order more slepper coaches and expand sleeper schedule.

>>2049560
he gets it

>>2049578
Somehow Italy refuses to buy more (but thats because Italians don't take public transport)
Tourists want them though

I'll be going from Prague to Budapest in a sleeper train.
>cheaper than flight+accomdation
>can sleep most of the trip
>avoid airport hassle
>well rested in the morning
>sounds cool to sleep on a train
It was an easy decision for me.

When you factor in getting to the airport, airport hassle, and getting from the airport into the city, you'll arrive in the evening even for moderate distances. Then you need a place to sleep.
With a sleeper train you arrive well-rested in the morning and save a night of accomodation.

>>2049576
This, you only end up in a barracks-style compartment if you book a seat/bed in a couchette. If you want privacy, you can go on a vagon-lit a.k.a. Pullman (yes, the guy who invented the sleeper car was American).

>>2049551 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=tSMRAEvsRE8

What do you mean? You sleep private?
There different tier of private cars and it's booked out through the year you can't get a ticket.

>>2049576
>czechia
Tranny shit
It's the Czech Republic

>>2049668
clueless american detected
bet you also say czech as kzetch or something

>>2049668
Other way around

>>2049756
>>2049801
Literally no one calls it le czechia or turkiye, it's Czech Republic and Turkey

>>2049551 (OP)
They're not expensive though? It's about the same price and same time as by car if you don't carpool (~15€/100km), but you don't have to drive and you can sleep. In a country like India (OP pic) it's the best option, it's more than ten times cheaper than going by car or plane, and doesn't take much more time. Would you rather sleep for 18 hours for less than 5 dollars with food vendors walking by or drive for 15 hours and spend at least 80 dollars on gas + the price of your rental + tolls ?

Imagine the odor.

All the euros in this thread would have a fucking aneurysm if they stepped foot into a private suite on Amtrak

>>2049622
>Pullman
>american
KEK. Suspiciously european, germanic sounding name. Not like sitting bull of the tak tuk clan or something.
>invented
Wrong again. One of the earliest sleeper cars left from London, england regularly.
Gay faggot is wrong again. Who would have thought. US america brainworm knowns no moderation.

>>2049838
That doesn't mean sleeper trains suck.
It just means Amtrack sucks.

>>2049839
The earlier sleepers were barely better than what we think of today as couchettes.
George Pullman created entire rolling hotels, with parlor carriages, dining cars, sightseeing lounges etc.
He invented the enclosed vestibule, which allowed people to leave their compartment and walk through the train, including from carriage to carriage (notably in order to reach the diner and parlor). Previously that had been considered dangerous, due to the open ends of carriages and little to no interlinks between them.

>>2049839
>Suspiciously european
Who do you think Americans are?

>>2049845
But that doesn't mean Pullman "invented" the sleeper. That's like claiming Steve Jobs invented the smartphone.

>>2049887
>But that doesn't mean Pullman "invented" the sleeper
Yeah, it does

>That's like claiming Steve Jobs invented the smartphone.
Straw man

>>2049818
>>2049801
>>2049756
>>2049668
You're all wrong

>>2049617
This is relevant. Even for a 1 hour flight you basically lose half a day at least, either you leave early and really get there around noon, or you leave around noon and arrive for dinner. If you take a sleeper say around 9pm and arrive at 9am you don't lose any useful time, you board the train after dinner at get there around breakfast time. In that sense it's much more practical.

>>2049551 (OP)
You can usually book a private room or just (I know, a completely foreign concept) share it with your friends
It can can be fun that way even if it is an old carriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf-P14ms4sY

>and cheaper to boot.
Trains are often time a middle class thing outside like East Europe and a few other countries that heavily subsidize the ticket. ICE in Germany and the Shinkansen in Japan are almost never the cheapest option.
People who are selling HSR as this ultra cheap alternative to flying are selling snake oil. Something that is more expensive than budget airline with a bit more convenience just do not sound as good

>>2049578
>In EU there is a huge demand
Not really. The demand is very seasonal. Austria already reconfigured their orders as turned out they don't need as many sleepers. They also jacked up the prices of their current routers heavily not so long ago, doubt it still sells out cuz it became ridiculously overpriced.

>>2049589
Book it through jegy.mav.hu it is cheaper that way probably

>>2049942
>Not really. The demand is very seasonal.
Can you really know the actual demand with the actual system being like
>no proper network outside eastern Europe just some specific lines
>various different operators
>no unified platform for checking prices and availability
>no unified class system (ie berth, room, room with toilet, etc)
>booking is very finicky even on the better working sites
>they sell out fast on popular dates instead of forming the trains according to demand
etc.

I find it almost a miracle that there are any sleeper trains left at all because they are so impractical to look up and book. Wirh flying I just go on some website like Skyscanner and from there I can choose a dozen sites from which to book or right on the airline website.

I'd love for night trains to be as easy to book as plane fare. And for trains to just get more cars hooked up if there's demand, you could like leave booking open until one or two weeks before departure and then just adjust train length accordingly.

If Europe were serious about this they could form a multi-national sleeper train company that establishes an entire network between most if not all major cities and regions, with standardized classes like say only two classes: individual "pod" berths and 2-person rooms. With just those two classes it makes ordering train cars much simpler, and also forming the trains ad-hoc according to demand. Yeah sure it'd have to be subsidis somewhat, but it would help reduce airport and road congested, favor European industry and create jobs in railways, so overall it'd seem like a good investment. But alas, the EU could never do something cool like that.

>>2049551 (OP)
I went on a night train once, the biggest mistake of my life.
Compartment over were some annoying loud teenagers. Didn't really get sleep, and the little I did left me tired in the morning.

Sleeper trains made sense when the trip from Paris to Constantinople took 3 days.

>>2049551 (OP)
Pay more and you get cattle class deluxe like a hotel room on rails. For train fans it's somewhat romantic I guess.

>>2049967
>"across europe"
>only shows eu connections

>>2049979
>all thr are way to eastern Europe, turkey and Jewkraine
>only EU
???

>>2049977
Much more romantic to drive
>sit in car for 10 hours staring at asphalt
>stop at sleazy highway rest stop and eat some overpriced goy slop
>get mad at kid for being restless in the back because he doesn't want to sit still for half a day
>arrive with cramps all over after sitting at the wheel all day
Ahhh yes now that's traveling

>>2050023
This reads like someone who has never actually taken a road trip before, or a train for that matter.

>>2049551 (OP)
The route I took just yesterday was 2 hours longer than driving (out of 14). Flying's faster, but absolute hell (standing only, show up over an hour early, get screwed with by security).
It was just my wife and I, and the food was a bit better. I read most of Dune and she got her knitting done with an audiobook (Orient Express).

Definitely not a bad way to get around. Optimal? No.
Ideally we'd have straightened the tracks out ages ago, but "Net Zero" means you lose your industry and ability to do anything like that.
Was definitely like >>2049560 said. Land cruise. Besides she's pregnant and I don't wanna deal with backscatter rads and security.
Flying's also heavily subsidized, so whatever.
Overall I'd give it a 7/10.
Driving kinda sucks and cost more in gas alone.
Flying is ass.
I don't think cruises go between cities.
Buses are the absolute worst option.
So I think the train made sense.

>>2050023
Or fly for 2 hours.
From a small airport, so you skip the long wait and having to arrive a lot of time ahead.

Because they are comfy?

>>2050044
On a plane, that would be a $10k ticket.

>>2049967
I mean all those points apply to regular train travel too. International travel accounts for around 1-2% of the ridership and night trains are just a tiny percentage of that number.

>Wirh flying I just go on some website like Skyscanner
Bahn.de loads the schedules it has access to. ÖBB Scotty too. I just checked a domestic IC journey in Hungary. But you are always better off checking the website of the national railways in question and book it on the site where it is cheaper.

>>2049979
>you can only say across Europe if you include Ruzzia

>>2050044
That's a tourist train, not actual transit

>>2050065
>that's tourist transit, not transit

>>2050050
The pic doesn't even show the price, can you even buy tickets there? Whenever I've tried to buy an international ticket it's been a tiresome affair.

>>2050023
>t. has never driven a car

>>2049845
The claim being contested here >>2049839
is the one originally made here >>2049622
in the usual manner of the US american: Clueless, uneducated but overly confident.
The claims were that Pullmann was a US american and invented the sleeper car. Both are superfluous and arguably wrong.
Pullmann having contributed to the development of the sleeper car does not make Pullmann its inventor and neither does it make him an american.

>>2050025
He's right though, seethe

>>2050251
Pullman invented the sleeper coach
Pullman was American
American invention
Simple as

>>2053055
But he's not.
>sit in car for 10 hours staring at asphalt
You don't "stare at asphalt", you take in the world around you. The only people who stare at asphalt are the cyclists who think they're competitive cyclists and then crash into an extremely obvious stationary object.
>get mad at kid for being restless in the back because he doesn't want to sit still for half a day
That's why you take breaks, especially with children. And in planes and trains you're expected to sit still anyway, too.
>sleazy highway rest stop
You have your choice of any rest stop, and many are well-maintained. On a train or airplane, that toilet isn't getting cleaned until you get to your destination, so at worst its a bit of a wash.
>eat some overpriced goy slop
Eating on the road is what you make of it. I GUESS you could eat exclusively from fast food restaurants but especially in cities, there's every cuisine imaginable within a mile of the freeway, while you can enjoy regional food on the road as well. Doesn't take much effort to have better and/or cheaper food than on a train.
>arrive with cramps all over after sitting at the wheel all day
The longer the journey is, the more you'll be sitting. This also applies to trains. That's why it comes to getting there fast, you'll want to go on a plane.

>>2053101
Sorry that happened or I'm happy for you bro

>>2049551 (OP)
>sleeping in a tiny room with total strangers
this must be a russia thing because I have literally never slept with strangers in a sleeper

>>2053104
I accept your concession

>>2049551 (OP)
Are we pretending that at least 30% of any population in a country isn't cattle class?
I like sleepers because you can just book a private room, not worry about hotel checkins, airport hassle and end up from city center to city center. Plus the food on some of these are quite ok, better than airplane meals unless you book business class. Not to mention that you can always find some people to talk to while you look out of the window at the passing scenery.

>>2049551 (OP)
Because you are highly likely to survive your trip.

>>2049560 >>2049575
>>2049576 >>2049577
>>2049626 >>2049821
>>2049942 >>2049977
>>2055356 >>2055531
OP is indian
even the shitty trains in romania and russia have private rooms these days, and theyre much cheaper than airlines

>AIEEE WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO BE COMFY ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT, PACK THEM IN TIGHTER AND INCREASE THE FARES OR NUMBER WILL GO DOWN!!!
go get stabbed on an amtrak nigger op

>>2056163
meds

>>2049551 (OP)
The rationale is its cheaper and more convenient than driving/flying + getting a hotel room
e.g.
>Option 1: take redeye train- trip takes 8 hours - arrive at destination refreshed and ready to head to your meeting
>Option 2: Late flight takes you there in 2 hours but now youre sleeping at the airport hilton for the other 6 hours
>Option 3: Leave early instead, have to get up at the ass crack of dawn for first AM flight to make the same itinerary, arrive at destination already depleted

>>2049551 (OP)
So you can sleep?

>>2057269
This guy gets it.

Short-haul flights up to around 2 or 2½ hours will still make you lose half a day at least. An overnight train up to 12-14 hours will make me lose almost no useful time. The train leaves at 8 pm right after dinner (or better still of you can have dinner on the train), arrives at 8 am and I have the whole day after a full night's rest.
Whenever I have the option for such distance I'd take the train over flying, so long as the train isn't significantly more expensive. Unfortunately in Europe night trains can often be incredibly expensive which of course renders them pointless. I'm not paying three times the airfare or even more to take the train.