What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV? For me I'd want attractive styling, 0-60 in 2.5s or less, and the ability to charge 300 miles of range in 5 minutes.

As a 2 year EV owner who lived in snowy weather, taken multiple road trips, and litterally drove across the entire USA coast to coast, charging that fast isn't important.

>>28448031 (OP)
All of the above plus a battery technology that isn't an unquenchable incendiary device. After seeing a half dozen of them burned to a crisp on a salvage lot after a flood (they burned down ON THE LOT they were not transported there as husks) I want nothing to do with large lithium batteries. I keep my RC airplane batteries in a fireproof chest too.

>>28448039
Are you retarded? Gas cars are literal firey death traps compared to EVs. Electric + gassoline = fire hazard. Not to mention they have a literal fire all the time running in their engine. The wrong fuel mixture at any time can create an explosion.

>>28448047
>GAS CARS CATCH FIRE TOO
retard

>>28448047
So you've never seen an EV fire I take it?

>>28448031 (OP)
I would buy an EV if they ripped out the 10,000 pound battery pack and dropped in a glorious V8.

>>28448047

>The wrong fuel mixture at any time can create an explosion

So can the right fuel mixture, that's the whole point lol; a controlled explosion.

>>28448035

You might be okay with a 30-45 minute stop every few hours, but I'm not. If I can't get 300 miles of range in 5 minutes I'm not buying. EVs are fine for around town but for long haul trips fuck that.

Buy a gun
Anyone who tries to impose their will on your purchases, kill them
Blow their brains out
Any EV faggot who can't keep their nightmare lifestyle to themselves

It'd have to be free for me to willingly "buy" one. Maybe you could add hookers and blow to sweeten the deal.

>>28448051
>>28448052
>>28448058
https://youtu.be/N44icPfGi1M

Never.

>>28448065
>free
even then you have to factor in the cost of your house burning down. or the government removing your access to the grid because of a climate emergency or because you said something mean online.

>>28448058
>You might be okay with a 30-45 minute stop every few hours, but I'm not
nta but yes, i very much am, and the vast majority of people are too

i don't know anyone who is willing to drive for more than 2-3 hours straight and not do a stop voluntarily.
a modern ev would at worst make you stretch that stop by 10-15mins over what it would have been otherwise.
and that is not a reason to avoid evs.

the real reasons to avoid them are
-not being able to charge at home(/work/somewhere else where its convenient and doesn't impact your day to day)
-living somewhere SERIOUSLY cold or SERIOUSLY hot. like, enough to make it dangerous for the batteries. like, northern canada/scandinavia/siberia, or saudi arabia/the sahara/etc
-needing to tow stuff frequently
-living in some 3rd world country where charging infra on highways is actually insufficient, which certainly doesn't apply to north america or europe.

>>28448031 (OP)
I don't care about EVs. My car isn't a transportation appliance, I just like its feeling and that include the bahvior of the engine.

the same weight and appearance as a 92 civic

>>28448080

There's a big differences between a 5 minute stop for gas / restroom and a 45 minute stop to recharge the batteries. You might not have a problem with it, but I fucking hate it and I'm not buying an EV until it changes.

>>28448095
>There's a big differences between a 5 minute stop for gas / restroom and a 45 minute stop to recharge the batteries
indeed.

but its not 2014 anymore. modern EVs can easily add 200 miles of range in 20 mins, which is very acceptable. taking a piss, getting a coffee and stretching your legs is easily 10 mins, you just need to wait for another 10.
which, i will grant, is definitely not ideal. ideal would be sub 5 mins.

but given all the other massive advantages of ev tech, and also given the fact that most people only do long road trips rarely, and, most especially, given than since modern ICEs suck ass big time, i'd say that the minor inconvenience of slightly longer pit stops is very easy to stomach.

>>28448102
>all the other massive advantages of ev tech
Such as? Let's hear it.

>>28448104
-insanely simple and reliable
-perfectly quiet, smooth, refined (and yes, those are 3 different things)
-instant response (which also means much better traction control)
-very cheap for insane amounts of hp and torque
-very convenient for packaging for the rest of the car (you get a frunk, flat cabin floor, longer wheelbase and therefore more cabin room for equal total car length)
-in the future, much cheaper cars. at least, much cheaper drivetrains. we still need to scale up battery production and whatnot, but the motors are 1000x cheaper than comparable ICEs
-and last but not least, no pollution. well, at least no pollution from ice exhaust, which is like 99% of the air pollution western people suffer by.

>>28448111
So, nothing. Other than the ability to dump energy and go fast in a straight line. Got it.

>>28448031 (OP)
I just want an EV droptop that doesn’t cost 100k+.
doesn’t even have to be good. I’d buy an electric fiat convertible if they made one.

>>28448116
>So, nothing.
not having to worry that the insanely overcomplicated ICE powering your car will require thousands in repairs and maintenance is not nothing
not having to deal with the constant rattle and vibrations of a shitty 4pot is not nothing
not having smog in our cities is not nothing.
having a much more spacious and comfy cabin is not nothing. and more cargo capacity too.

>Other than the ability to dump energy and go fast in a straight line
yes, being able to buy a $50k car that has a 3 second 0-60 and a 10 second quarter mile is pretty awesome.
or, indeed a 100k car that goes toe to toe with a buggatti in a quarter mile.

in the long term, excluding the practical issues affecting the now like charging availability and prices, the biggest problem with EVs is how boring they are. and they are, because ev drivetrains are perfect. you have no gears, you have no torque/hp curve, no turbo lag, nothing. just perfect power delivery. and perfection is boring.

i like ICE engines for their character, because they're not perfect. not the shitty 3-4pot turbos that econoboxes have, ofc, those im very happy to see go away. but i like NA v12s and v8s and i6s, even a few forced induction engines. im sad to see those go away. but i only like those in fun cars, in sport cars. given infinity money, my daily would be an EV. my weekend car(s) would be ICE.
and for the vast majority of people, who can't afford, nor care enough to want, a fun weekend car, EVs coming along is the best thing to happen in the automotive world in a very long time.

>>28448031 (OP)
When they invent an EV equivalent to a Jerry can. Until then I'm out.

>>28448133
>my daily would be an EV. my weekend car(s) would be ICE.
This is how I feel about it all too. A low maintenance daily driver should be something that enthusiasts want, so they can save their efforts, and money, for their sports cars.

>>28448145
>Just waste your life buying another product so you don't have to use the one you like and already have.

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
not much

>>28448145
>A low maintenance daily driver
yes, but its more than that.

i've never had the occasion to be stuck in traffic for a couple hours with a ferrarri flat plane crank v8 vibrating and roaring 5 inches behind my head, but i can't imagine it would be pleasant
and i have had the occassion to be stuck in traffic for a couple hours with a manual car, and i can certainly attest that it was not fun. i mean, it would've sucked with an automatic too, but less so.

the qualities that make a car fun and exciting on a twisty road or a track are entirely different, and indeed often entirely antithetical and mutually exclusive, to those that make a car a good daily.
and when it comes to drivetrains, ICEs are best suited for the former, and EVs are basically perfect for the latter.

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take
Some disposable money

>>28448152
I just do a 10 minute oil change in my garage twice a year. It always starts and drives. So difficult.

What a shit thread.

I would like a very affordable one with a sodium battery, even at the expense of subpar range.

>>28448149
I don't feel there's much to be gained from using a sports car to commute and do errands with. I'd rather put those miles on something quiet and comfortable, and more easily replaceable, instead.

>>28448166
CHEAP
A COMMUTER AND ERRAND SHITCAR IS SUPPOSED TO BE CHEEEAAAAAPPPPPPPP

GIVE ME MY $18K NISSAN SEMTRAS IDGAF

>>28448031 (OP)
literally just bolt up an electric motor to the manual transmission of a miata and give it a battery just big enough for 150 miles of range

>>28448031 (OP)
Those stupid LED fog light rims make it look like a Kia.

They'd have to have growly engines and manual gearboxes and both of those things would have to be NOT simulated.

>>28448061
Americans sure do love to larp as if they'd ever do shit

>>28448419
Firearms are the leading cause of death among children in the US. There are 1.2 registered guns for every citizen. Someone's using them.

>>28448111

Vehicles pollution is about 30% of total emissions. I agree about EV motors, but the issue isn't the motors, it's the batteries.

>>28448102

>200 miles in 20 mins

Sorry, that's dogshit, I'm not buying an EV until it's closer to 300 miles in 5 minutes like a tank of gas.

>>28448416

I don't care if EVs have growly engines, and manual gearboxes are for people who took the fast and the furious far too seriously. I enjoy my manual on the weekends but it's shit for daily.

>>28448436

>>28448443
>Vehicles pollution is about 30% of total emission
Picrel from EPA.gov.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-overview#Sector
Transportation is 15% and that includes planes and ships which don't have emissions controls like cars do. Cars are just what the media has taught people to associate with all pollution.

>>28448443
>Vehicles pollution is about 30% of total emissions
yes, but that other 70% is out of the cities, away from the vast majority of the western population, localized around power plants and factories, or spread over the oceans from cargo ships.
when it comes to the pollution that actual people actually breathe in, its ice exhausts. at least in the western world, unless somebody literally lives next door to a power plant or factory.

>Sorry, that's dogshit, I'm not buying an EV until it's closer to 300 miles in 5 minutes like a tank of gas.
yea, that's gonna be a few decades at best, if it ever happens at all. every tech has its drawbacks, and this is one of the drawbacks of batteries. they take a while to charge.
we've managed to reduce it to the point where, at least if can charge at home, its a fairly minor inconvenience (extending a mid trip stop by 10 mins is fairly minor) that occurs single digit number of times per year for most people, low double digit tops(how fucking often do you do >300mile road trips?).
imo that's not enough to forgo all the other benefits of an otherwise much superior tech, but hey, free country and all that. you do you.

>>28448436
Yea on random children and other citizens. Not on authority figures.

>>28448445
Of all the political posts on this board you got maf over that one. Struck a chord with your fragile ego?

>>28448454

I think we'll have rapid charging like that in 5-10 years. My current vehicle will be my last V8, if I had to guess, at least as a daily. 5-10 years from now I'll hopefully have an EV for my daily and some manual shitbox Corvette for fun on the weekends.

>>28448456

Go back to the containment board.

>>28448462
I just stated a fact about guns replying to a conversation. How is that political? Because you got mad?

>>28448450
>Agriculture releases significantly more greenhouse emissions than cars, planes, and ships combined.
Why are there no calls for banning meat or taxing people for being overweight? Don't you know getting nutrients from an IV would save the world?

>>28448470
>>28448456
>>28448436

Samefag

>smol
>retro styling like the Honda E or Suzuki Ignis
>cheap
>won't burn me to death
>power everything and sunroof, or power nothing not even windows
>no driver cuckolding aids except maybe abs & switchable traction if they have to

>>28448489
Duh. What's your point?

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
The collapse of economic viability for ICE
at the consumer level.

Realistically, I'd probably go back to being a bus rider by then.

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
If I could sell it for a profit
Or buy it for my wife or something because she is probably better off in an EV
Would never buy one to drive personally

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
Low purchase price and 100km range. Been thinking of getting an old Leaf or similar for driving to the shops as my ICE barely gets warm.

>>28448031 (OP)
Make solar way cheaper so I can charge EV for less at home

>>28448031 (OP)
What you mentioned would be nice. Faster charging, but most importantly, no telemetry. And no bricking my car with updates or by disabling them.

People will make the argument that gas cars do it, and it's true they do now. But you can remove that shit, reflash the ECU, and keep on without the spyware. Your EV bricks if you try to modify it. I paid for it, it's mine to do as I please. EV shills should really understand this. They have no refute.

>>28448047
NTA, but my job carries me through multiple neighborhoods. I've seen no less than 5 house fires in the last 2 years. Possibly 12 in the last 5. All were in the garage. Whether it's the car, who knows, but it's quite likely given the amount of electric cars in the area. While gas cars can catch fire, we have over 100+ years perfecting them to where they don't just combust while fueling up or sitting in your garage. I'd like afew more years of working out the kinks, plus what I mentioned above. We already beta test our fucking phones, computers, games etc. I ain't doing that in my cars.

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
Mental retardation

>>28448031 (OP)
>no steer-by-wire or brake-by-wire insanity
>GNU GPLv3 licensed infotainment and VCU programming/updating software
>no integrated cellular or wifi antennas, just an RJ45 port and a dedicated USB-C port for an optional wireless data module
>parts available at any brick and mortar auto parts store
>1450 kg or 3200 lbs. max weight
>double wishbone on all wheels
>same miles per minute charging as gasoline cars
>no model exclusive tire sizes
>double wishbone on all wheels
>no glass on roof
>thin A-pillars
>low hood

>>28448443
I didn't ask if you cared faggot.

>>28448035
>charging that fast isn't important
You only say that until you get a 50kwh capped work vehicle..

What I will agree on is that range is very important. If it drives far enough, tis only going to get power from the wall socket over night.
And if the range is high enough, that reduces the charge time, since cars only charge reasonably until you hit like 50-60% depending on model.

>>28449046
Leaf
Zoe
eGolf and eUP
iMIEV
The main barrier is bothering to loan a trailer and drive cross country to fetch it, or look into the logistics of getting it transported. I know in my country its very cheap to get the car transported by boat alongside the coast.

>>28449385
>no steer-by-wire or brake-by-wire insanity
why not?
i promise you, every plane you've ever been on was steer-by-wire.

>GNU GPLv3 licensed infotainment and VCU programming/updating software
very desirable, agreed. tho that is a problem that applies to ICEs equally, its not a reason to avoid EVs specifically

>no integrated cellular or wifi antennas, just an RJ45 port and a dedicated USB-C port for an optional wireless data module
>parts available at any brick and mortar auto parts store
>double wishbone on all wheels
same as above

>1450 kg or 3200 lbs. max weight
>same miles per minute charging as gasoline cars
not gonna happen.
EVs have their pros and cons. weight is definitely one of their cons. slow charging too.
for some applications, those cons are deal breakers. eg if you're looking for a lightweight nimble sports car, or a track car.
for other applications, eg for a daily commuter, those cons are entirely irrelevant.

>no glass on roof
the glass on roof thing is stupid, i agree.

>thin A-pillars
that's not an EV thing, its a modern safety standards thing

>low hood
EVs generally have low hoods. at least, the ones that are from the ground up evs.

>>28448443
>I enjoy my manual on the weekends but it's shit for daily
damn, sucks to be you. had zero problems dailying my manual with stop start traffic. probably helped that it was a 3.0L l6 though; don't have to rev the engine too much to get going.

>>28449405
>i promise you, every plane you've ever been on was steer-by-wire.
Boeing 737 is still cable operated with extra servos. The others have a LOAD of backup systems incase they lose power. We're talking quadruple-redundant here.
I wouldn't trust those systems in a car either. It's perfectly possible to have a mechanical linkage that won't go down if the ECU has a hiccup and if either of those systems fail it's catastrophic.

The guys other points are indeeld largely general to modern cars but sticking with something older also rules out current EVs.

>>28448031 (OP)
Not much really:
>manual
>extremely cheap
>isn't gay

>>28449412
The other guy also ignores how the overwhelming majority of air travel happens in empty space. Even during a loss of control event, you're likely to have at least a couple of minutes to reboot the fly by wire system. Meanwhile cars are always near something that can lead to a fatal crash in under 15 seconds should steering fail

>>28448031 (OP)
I outgrew EVs when I was like 11 and don't plan to go back. I could conceive a scenario where globohomo makes dailying a real car so expensive that I cuck and buy an EV shit box to daily, but we're getting into philosophical territory on the meaning of "voluntarily "
>>28448056
Pretty good answer until you get stuck with some phev thing.
>>28449417
With those criteria you'll probably never buy a new car (again).

>>28448478
>Why are there no calls for banning meat
uh, anon, there are.

>>28449448
Sure, but countries around the world aren't actively legislating meat or calling for it to be watered down with onions to save the world.
They are doing that with cars. Healthcare spending, ignoring ag pollution - how much more will we bend over for food addicts? You don't need 3,000 calories a day unless you work out.
No one is willing to say "hey fatty your unhealthy addiction is polluting the planet" but enjoying driving? That's supposedly unnecessary and it's my miata's fault we razed forests to factory farm.

>>28449462
It's almost impossible to enforce weight and calorie restrictions. Cut off someone's food? They can just get from a family member. Cut off a family's food? They can just ask friends.

Restricting cars? That's easy as shit. Just make them illegal to sell for the corporations, and fine them heavily if they don't comply.

>>28449405
>no steer-by-wire or brake-by-wire insanity
>why not?
I don't want my ability to steer and brake completely dependent on electric power. There's no redundancy that beats applying the torque yourself.

>GNU GPLv3 licensed infotainment and VCU programming/updating software
>no integrated cellular or wifi antennas, just an RJ45 port and a dedicated USB-C port for an optional wireless data module
>parts available at any brick and mortar auto parts store
>double wishbone on all wheels
>1450 kg or 3200 lbs. max weight
>reasonably thin A-pillars, like a GR86 and not a Camaro

>applies to ICEs equally, its not a reason to avoid EVs
If you take away the joy of revving an engine and shifting a transmission, there has to be some sort of compensation otherwise it's just a tolerable driving experience at best.

>low hood
>EVs generally have low hoods. at least, the ones that are from the ground up evs.
Technically the hoods are higher than gasoline cars due to those having practically nothing in the way of seating you on the sheet metal above the road.

>>28448454
>>28448461
it's not even 5-10 years. china literally has megawatt charging right now. 170 miles in 5 minutes.

>>28449543
>china literally has megawatt charging right now. 170 miles in 5 minutes.
Truly saving the planet.

>>28449543
There's no way in hell current batteries can take that rate of charge repeatedly without serious degradation.

>>28449544
Supposedly their fossils dependence went down for the first time recently.

>>28448031 (OP)
Nothing. I am simply not interested.

>>28449552
>Just another 2 weeks and EVs will be environmentally friendly, I swear!

>>28448031 (OP)
Charge at -30F and use a chemistry that's thermal runway proof.

>>28449434
>but we're getting into philosophical territory on the meaning of "voluntarily
Essentially this. Those Sacrilege Motors cars are some of the few evs that are interesting, but at $800k asking price, I'd just get a regular 964 and put all the MODIFICATIONS that they did (minus the electric motor) and call it a day
>inb4 noooo making cars faster is rice!!!
>inb4 noooo they lowered the cars that's rice!!!

Full size saloon with big seats, big, untinted windows and a low profile with the following:
>regular cruise control. Not radar cruise control self drive 90000 that doesn’t work and tries to kill me
>no other bings, bongs and wahoos to tell me I’m going too fast or overtaking incorrectly or that there’s a truck on a bridge two miles away
>range of about 300 miles
>decent air conditioning, an infotainment system that can’t be seen when I’m not using it
>clear, large dials
>traditional controls for the washers, lights, indicators, radio, HVAC, horn and locking
Not bothered about how fast it goes round a track in Germany, how many G it pulls, if it can beat a McLaren in a drag race or any of that shit. I basically want a Jaguar XJ or a big body Caddy with electric motors

>>28449547
you said the same thing about 250kw chargers 6 years ago

>>28449630
Back to strawmanning I see.

>>28449633
don't even try to play the logical fallacy card when your ass is the one making appeals to probability in the first place

>>28449655
That was my first post in the convo.

>>28448031 (OP)
They just need to be cheap, basic, and not be full of iPads or spyware.

>>28449405
>i promise you, every plane you've ever been on was steer-by-wire.
First, you won't bet your ass on it even if you're a real faggot.
Second, aerospace industry is miles away from automotive industry, starting with engineering and down to operator training, so your "point" is moot anyway.

>>28449593
>decent air conditioning
is this an issue with EVs?

>>28451872
not really.

if the particular EV lacks a heat pump(or better yet, a more comprehensive system that recycles motor/battery heat like teslas have), heating the cabin during winter can noticeably impact range.
oh, and some EVs have a "driver only" option, basically restricting the ac/heating to the stuff pointed at the driver to further conserve energy, but that doesn't make it any less effective. unless you're not the driver, and the setting is on, lol.

>>28448031 (OP)
Cheap commuter car. Reliable, practical, enough to get me to work/errands. And I’d have to have the space for it.

>>28448031 (OP)
I'd take an electric appliance if it was a €10k conversion kit for older cars. It would have to have 500 km of range regardless of weather and temperature, the battery would need to be the size and weight of a 60 l fuel tank and recharge 0% to 100% in 5 minutes tops. Also this shit cannot lose 30% of it's capacity in 5 years because otherwise what's the point. I don't particularly care about muh performance but if it did 0-100 kph in under 5 seconds that would be more than enough.

>>28451940
Actually I somehow forgot the most important thing - open source ECU which doesn't need internet connection nor does it send any data to it's manufacturer. Obviously goes without saying no nudriver aids and if I want the car to go RUN NIGGER NIGGER every time I start it up then I should be able to program it so.

>>28448031 (OP)
>What would it take for you to voluntarily purchase an EV?
1. Better public chargers: Stalls don't require a dedicated app that data harvest my phone, and stations being akin to an airport lounge instead of a ghetto Mobile gas'n go or stuffed at the back of a walmart parking lot.
2. Modular batteries: designing the main battery for easier repairability (i.e. user swappable cells) without needing to drop $20k on a new battery pack in 10 years (because of inevitable degradation)
3. Better pricing: Should be obvious. One good example would be the new Ioniq 5, the starting price should at least be $32,000, not $42k with the mid trim at $55k.
4. Better Range: imo, every EV should have a minimum range of 200 miles, under maximum load/weight capacity while driving in sub-optimal conditions. Just like most ICE cars.

Until these issues are resolved, I'm going to keep driving my Yukon until it rusts away.

>>28449385
>GNU GPLv3 licensed infotainment and VCU programming/updating software
It's a little too much to ask imo, I would love something like that. The closest thing we have is automakers using linux for their head units and DVD systems

solid state batteries that are half the weight

>>28448031 (OP)
Easily swappable batteries. They company has to replace the battery for free. EVs devalue at like 5-8k per year or more. That's way too much of a loss for the average working class person.

This can be solved by the manufacturer replacing batteries for free, which isn't gonna happen, or a system like BYD has where they dont charge the battery, you take it to a swap station and they replace it with serviced batteries. The battery CANNOT be my problem. That's really the only big issue with EVs, make the battery not the user's problem and the vehicles won't be impractical. Swap stations also solve the charge time issue and the not being able to be in the car whole charging issue. I really hope you don't hold your phone while it's charging, look up what happens. Sitting in a charging car, holy shit kiss your nuts goodbye and you WILL get cancer.

Oh and I need a real 4x4 EV offroader.

>>28452141
>they dont charge the battery, you take it to a swap station and they replace it with serviced batteries
Of course you CAN charge ir at home but when far from home, or just every so often (even once yearly) swap the battery so you have new cells. The company will only lose so much because you still pay for that service, and don't get fucked over in the end with a fried battery and worthless car.

>>28452141
you're not going to listen because the tinfoil hat has fused to your brainstem but none of your concerns are valid. batteries last 250k+miles and they don't give you cancer or break your phone or whatever

>>28452153
>batteries last 250k+miles
Yeah they "last" that long meaning they'll hold 5% of the charge they were originally able to hold. You can look at the cost of used EVs vs their original cost and see for yourself, they devalue at an alarming rate. I'm not paying that shit, these arent viable for working class ownership. Even a hybrid devalues at 2x the rate of a gas car. Not buying it. Swap the battery or fuck off.

>>28452390
>You can look at the cost of used EVs vs their original cost and see for yourself
that's an entirely different reason. i could waste 5 minutes writing up why but you wouldn't read it or care because you've already made up your mind and won't let frivolous things like facts get in the way

>>28452390
nta
you're 100% wrong. whatcar has a video where they test ranges for EVs, among them a 2014 model S with ~250k miles on the clock. it managed >200miles, with an implied range degradation of around 33%. after 12 years and 250k miles.
only the very early compliance cars suffered from this, the ones that predate tesla showing the world evs work. the ones that had no battery thermal management, no preconditioning for charging.

>they devalue at an alarming rate
they devalue because their natural market, namely the urban poor/lower middle class, can't buy them.
they can't buy them, because the urban poor/lower middle class lives in apartments, which means they can't charge them at home, which means ev ownership is extremely inconvenient for them. and not particularly economical either, since charging at charging stations is way more expensive than at home rates.

the flipside to this is, ofc, that if you CAN charge at home, you can benefit from some ABSURDLY good deals in the used EV market.
you can easily find older model 3s at sub 20k, which is insane for a less than 10yo, c-segment sedan, which at its lowest trim, is still 300hp, RWD, with the best infotainment tech out there. and for 25k or so, you can manage a post-2020 long range awd, with >300miles of range, 500hp and a heat pump.
you can find 1st gen audi e-trons, aka Q8 with an ev drivetrain, for like 25k. the range sucks, 200milse at best, but still. 25k for a q8, a 100k car normally.
you can find taycans, i-Paces, fucking everything at 50+% off msrp. its fucking candyland, you just need to be able to charge at home, and not be an idiot.

>>28452397
Of courts I would read it retard.

>>28452417
Yes I was basing my assumption off of the used market being so much cheaper than the new ones, and online memes saying the batteries shit the bed. Doesn't explain why hybrids devalue at 2x the rate of gas cars though. Assumed it was because the batteries had degraded.

I'm a pleb who lives in an apartment, but there's an outlet next to my parking spot for like vacuums and such. Can I just plug my car into a regular outlet and charge it or do you need a special setup?

>>28452417
>they devalue because their natural market
biggest factor in depreciation is tax credit.
if i'm looking at a used camry that's 12k cheaper than a new one, that's a lot of money. if i'm looking at a tesla that's 12k less than a new one, but i know uncle sam will gibe me 7.5k to buy it, then i'm not saving much buying used so i might as well buy new. in order to get my money, the used dealership needs to price the used one low enough to make it worth buying, which is 20k less than a new one. likewise if i bought it new and they tell me they're only giving me 20k for my 40k car, it's fine because i really only spend 33k on it, so it didn't depreciate much more than the camry, and i saved thousands of dollars not buying gas.
but to the layman they just see "new car 40k used car 20k tHeY dEpRcIaTe A lOt"

>>28452431
>Can I just plug my car into a regular outlet and charge it or do you need a special setup?
you can but it's fucking sloooow. you can straight up run an extension cord out to the car and plug it straight into the wall but they only charge at about 4 miles an hour.

>>28452431
>Can I just plug my car into a regular outlet and charge it or do you need a special setup?
yes, and assuming you don't have an absurdly large commute, > 100 miles, even the shittiest 110v outlet will let you start each day with a fresh battery.

however, i'd assume that you would get in trouble with the building management if you do that. maybe talk to them and see if you can work out a deal. if they're willing to let you do it, definitely consider going ev.

>>28452437
>biggest factor in depreciation is tax credit.
not really.
it may be a small factor for model 3s and other cheap ones, but you can find taycan turbo s's for like 60k nowadays. that has nothing to do with a 7.5k discount.

every jew dies.

>>28448436
Trailer trash and minorities leaving guns out in plain fucking sight with kids around don't count

>>28452443
>but they only charge at about 4 miles an hour.
per ms copilot, its 4-7 miles per hour, mostly depending on the efficiency of the ev itself. as in, constant amount of kwhrs, but the miles you get from them will vary depending on which ev it is.

but even in the worst case, assuming you spend at least 12 hours per day at home, eg you come back from work at 7pm and leave at 7am next morning, 12x4 = 48miles. this is enough to cover a pretty big majority of all commutes. and even if some1 commutes longer, its enough to delay the need to charge until the weekend, at which point you will have no commute and ample time to actually charge it to full for next week.

>>28452443
Shit, my daily commute is fucking 90 miles total.

I know I'm fucking myself over keeping this job and looking for a new one so luckily it's temporary.

>>28452447
that's a different classification of car entirely. all luxury sedans depreciate like that. you can buy a 5 year old 110k taycan for 60k. you can also buy a 5 year old 110k panamera for 60k. you don't even want to know how much a 5 year old 150k s class sells for.

>>28452469
keep in mind that 4 miles per hour figure is the absolute worst case. its a 110v outlet charging an ev of bottom barrel efficiency.
and if the outlet is 220v, its 15-40miles per hour, which would be fine for every commute.

>>28452471
>ou can buy a 5 year old 110k taycan for 60k. you can also buy a 5 year old 110k panamera for 60k
the difference is, the panamera has a twin turbo v8 with all the accoutrements, and will be insanely expensive to maintain. the taycan just needs you to plug it in every night.

>>28452471
samefag >>28452473
also, forgot to mention, the taycan turbo is like 200k brand new.

>>28452473
>the panamera has a twin turbo v8
not the entry levels. 8 cylinders start at 160k.

>>28452494
cheapest 2020+ panameras are v6 biturbo e-hybrids. which, aside from requiring 2 fewer sparkplugs, are more or less equally horrific to maintain. actually, they're probably worse, thanks to the added complexity of the hybrid system...
and yes, indeed, around 60k for them. higher end ones with v8s are more expensive.

anyway, point stands. formerly super expensive ICEs are cheap because maintaining them is super expensive, formerly expensive EVs are cheap because charging at home issues for poor/lower middle class urbanites.

Look super cool
No intrusive Internet connected faggotry or data mining
Safety nannies that can be disabled (without having to do it each time you start the car)
300+ mile range

>>28452515
>Look super cool
>No intrusive Internet connected faggotry or data mining
>Safety nannies that can be disabled (without having to do it each time you start the car)
none of these are EV-specific issues, they afflict all modern cars.

>300+ mile range
that's already a thing.

>>28452472
That could work. I'm pretty sure I don't even pay the electric for that outlet so would be even better. I was thinking about getting that Slate monstrosity but didn't think an EV was going be viable.

>>28448031 (OP)
affordable, easy to replace battery's, or alternately make the rest of the car so poorly that it fails at the same time as the battery.
>0-60
no 0-30 time focused, really cut people off in traffic.
>>28449405
>steer-by-wire.
Fully sus, better to let Jesus take the wheel.

if i had a house with to charge it and a regular commute

>>28448031 (OP)
Tho have a place were I could charge it.
As simple as that.

No battery degradation
What do you mean that's impossible? Oh well

>>28448031 (OP)
Make it a diesel-electric with a Napier Deltic engine in a giga nigger sized sedan.

>>28448031 (OP)
It's gotta be a buggy so I can wrap it lik the RC from Toy Story while I wear a Woody costume and my vanity plate would say W00D1EE.

Affordable pricing. I don't even mind charging at a station for 20 minutes. I rarely refuel anyways. But man the equivalent EV to an ICE/HEV is 5k more at a minimum. You're simply not making that back in saved fueling/service costs unless you're a high mileage monster. EVs are ironically enough not worth it if you're already an eco driver with low kilometers/year driving.

I think this is what hampers adoption of EVs. For people that don't drive long distances on daily basis, it makes little sense opting for EV. This is not even adding the increased insurance costs and tire wear.

>>28448156
EV niggers are worse than wrenchlets. They see cars as a toy, and the idea of even basic maintenance like maintaining tire pressure or cleaning a windshield is beneath them.

>>28448156
Uhhhh your service book?

>>28448031 (OP)
I'd have to own a home

>>28452141
If that system existed you'd pay just as much for it as you currently pay for depreciation. The batteries still depreciate by the same amount over time, your scheme to swap them around doesn't make physics go away

>>28454287
The batteries would be serviced by the manufacturer or battery station business. You don't own them, you're not responsible for their lifespan.

>>28452517
>none of these are EV-specific issues, they afflict all modern cars.
That's the point
>>28452515
Anx when did companies start adding safety nannies that need to be disabled every time you start the car? My newest car is from 2016 and I've only driven rentals up to 2021. The 2016 car doesn't have any of that shit, but the modern rentals you had to press "ok" to use the screen to change anything including the fucking hvac and radio which is retarded as fuck

>>28454242
>For people that don't drive long distances on daily basis, it makes little sense opting for EV
It's literally the opposite. If I drove 300 miles a day I definitely wouldn't use a fucking ev

>>28454260
No it's even worse. They view them as appliances, aka "white goods," which is why they mostly get them in cumwhite to emphasize the applianceness of it. Mostly.

>>28454260
Cars ARE toys, by the way

>>28454714
If the business owns the depreciating battery and needs to make a profit then you're going to have to pay the same amount

>>28454725
Let me put it this way, if you commute with your car daily longer distances, EV is great and likely to even save you money if you charge at home. But if you only use your car for say grocery shopping and weekend trips, chances are in a 5 year time your driven miles would not have compensated the initial higher costs of EV. Of course if you do insane single trip distances daily, diesel is the best (this applies to an extreme minority of people).

>>28455586
>likely to even save you money if you charge at home
first of all, this is not a probabilistic thing. you can do the math and figure out the savings fairly easily
second, lower fuel costs are only one part of the fiscal benefits. you also save money by not having to maintain/repair an ICE drivetrain, which can be very expensive.
third, saving money is only one part of the overall benefits of driving an EV. you also get a quieter, smoother, more refined drivetrain, higher performance, better packaging (assuming a ground up EV) and you never have to visit a gas station. also you're immune to low emission zone horseshit.

>But if you only use your car for say grocery shopping
actually, doing only short trips is super bad for ICEs. if you're a WFH guy that only does 1-mile trips to the local gym and grocery store on most weeks, you definitely wanna be doing that with an EV.

>the initial higher costs of EV
firstly, EVs are no longer significantly more expensive than equivalent size/perf/luxury ICEs
and secondly, as has been discussed at length here and in many other threads, the high depreciation that EVs face makes it a very bad idea to buy one new. you either lease, or buy used (so you can benefit from the depreciation, rather than suffer it yourself)

>if you do insane single trip distances daily, diesel is the best
nah. diesels are quite good for highway miles, sure, but an EV is cheaper still. assuming chargers are available for your routes, ofc.
also doesn't sound like a tractor.

there are scenarios in which you wanna avoid EVs tho
-towing. self explanatory, get a trugg
-very extreme climate, either hot or cold. batteries and heatpumps have a pretty wide operating temp range, but saudi arabia and northern canada/scandinavia/siberia are outside of it
-very remote area with no charging stations. again, self explanatory
-you want something fun. EVs are boring. very refined, very efficient, very performant, but boring. they all feel the same.

>>28455626
>if you're a WFH guy that only does 1-mile trips to the local gym and grocery store on most weeks, you definitely wanna be doing that with an EV.
and in fact, that's one of very few circumstances where an EV would be advisable even in you can't charge at home. if your weekly driving is 15-20 miles, and you get a 300-400 mile EV, that means you only need to charge literally every 3-4 months. which makes the whole "spend 30mins at a charging station" thing not an immediate deal breaker, as it would be if it was a weekly/biweekly thing.

>>28448031 (OP)
2800lbs or less, fits 265 tires or wider, double bones all around, minimally invasive traction control, can hotlap for 30 minutes in 100F weather without overheating, at least 150 miles of range (don't really care about roadtrips). an electric go kart that you can still commute to work in would be badass.

>>28452141
I like this idea. would be much easier to recycle/refurbish batteries if they were modular and not integral to the structure of the car.

>>28448031 (OP)
I'm not an autistic fag that cares about 0-60 times, but give me the EV equivalent to a 1999 Camry and I'll consider it. Simplicity, reliability, and comfort are what I want. If Teslas didn't have a completely repugnant interior I'd consider one.

>>28455651
>If Teslas didn't have a completely repugnant interior I'd consider one.
its not repugnant by any means. shitty build quality, yes, but ffs, buy a trim puller and some plastic tabs and fix it. the minimalism thing is actually fairly nice once you get used to it, makes for a very relaxed driving experience. and unlike basically every other car, voice commands actually work pretty well.
the only one that i'd advise against is the new model 3. losing the turn signal knob is a complete deal breaker on euro roads with lots of roundabouts, tho i hear its not as bad in the US where they aren't as frequent.

>>28455660
If I have to navigate through screen menus to adjust the AC, that is a design failure. The minimalism trend could not die quickly enough.

>>28455667
>If I have to navigate through screen menus to adjust the AC
do you, tho? do you?
personally, i have that fucker set to 22c year round. its modern AC, anon, not something from a 1993 base trim civic. you don't have to fuck with it or hold its hand. it knows to blast you on max if the car is super cold/hot and it knows to stop doing it once its close or at the target temp.
oh, and on the off chance you do wanna change something, like i said, voice commands work pretty well.

>>28448031 (OP)
A single motor, connected via a manual clutch, to some kind of manual transmission, at least a 3 speed, limited slip differential, curb weight under 3600 lbs, 1 backup camera, 1 built in dash cam, analogue gauges, Bluetooth stereo, 450 mile range, charges in under an hour, battery life expectancy not degrading to less than 350 miles over the course of 30 years, and no self driving features or internet connectivity.

>>28455667
look i don't like the overscreenification of teslas anymore than the next guy but if that was hypothetically the only reason you didn't want one, 1) that's silly but 2) it's not as bad as you think
people here with no experience of modern cars will tell you that in order to adjust the ac in a new car you have to look at the screen and click a menu and click another menu and click features then click functions and then click ac and then click temp and then click set temp and then type in a number but in reality, you just set it on auto and don't worry about it. you already know when you get in the car what temperature you want. if it's really hot outside, set it and 68. if it's really cold, set it at 72. if you want to adjust the fan speed, you can do that on the steering wheel easily. teslas also have crazy good voice controls.
the thing that sucks way way more than adjusting the ac is positioning the vents. that's the worse thing to happen to cars, way worse than touchscreen heated seats or blinker buttons. you can't just grab it and slide it around. you have to go into the screen and move it that way. this shit is insane and for all the nitpicking people love to do on touchscreens, this doesn't get half as much attention as it deserves.

>>28455751
nta
>positioning the vents
that's something i will set once per car and literally never fuck with ever again.