Thread 28461886

>3000 cars on board
>a few of them EV's
>one catches fire because it's china what did you expect
>entire ship has to be abandoned because battery fire keeps burning despite fire suppression
>2 weeks later and the ship is still burning
>ship being towed out to sea so no one has to take responsibility when it sinks
>hundreds of millions of dollars just went poof because of EV fags

Do you think this bodes well for the continued future of gas cars in north america?

And did you hear the one about when someone was refueling a gas car and a spark happened so the entire gas station exploded killing everyone in it? That's why they never caught on and we all still use horses as our primary means of transportation.

nooo stop spreading pigdoggu american lies
china numba wan china numba wan

>>28461886 (OP)
But this will save the polar bears anon, so it's all worth it. Also don't forget to use your paper straw.

Why are ICE fags so insecure? Drive your COPD box, nobody cares.

>>28461886 (OP)
reminder that most battery fires are intentional
[they] trigger them over the internet
this very second, [they] hold the key to explode your laptop battery and burn your balls off
every single connected device with a lithium battery is a bomb

>>28461940
Maybe because the whole first world has been trying to ban them or economically disincentivize them for some 15 years, while EVfags spout off their BS unchecked? Gee, I don't know, maybe it's that "standing up for yourself" thing?

>>28461902
>And did you hear the one about when someone was refueling a gas car and a spark happened so the entire gas station exploded killing everyone in it?

Do you retards not understand the nature of battery fires and the potential risks involved?

Even gas tanks dont blow up like this

>>28462201
Gee maybe there's a reason the world wants to move past smoky 19th century lung cancer vehicles

>>28462234
I have seenba billion videos of Chinese suffering horribly amidst ICE fire crashes. When you crash with an EV, nothing explodes unlike ICE.

>>28462239
>I've seen china dash cams
> It's totally not their driving
Shut the fuck up change Mr Pooh must have taken down live leaks cuz he was tired of seeing your dumb ass get fed to the cnc machine.

>>28462239
Ice cars don't explode, wrenchlet. I had a fucking lithium ion powered golf cart catch on fire at work and the shit literally melted it's differential housing as well as being reduced to a bare steel frame and some gears..

I think you should just beat the shit out of people who like evs on the spot without warning.

>>28462261
they're not people

>>28462237
>Still thinks EVs are better for the environment.
Get fucked. You're being sold on a dream that does not reflect reality. We have unleaded fuel and catalytic converters and all personal and commercial road vehicles only account for 10% of human made greenhouse gas emissions and going EV only shifts this to those emissions coming from power plants.

>>28462276
Sorry bro can't hear through your lung cancer choking you.

>>28462252
>Ice cars don't explode, wrenchlet
lol ok they just spontaneously COMBUST.

A combustion engine that combusts, who would've figured

>>28462300
You can put it out with water. Water accelerates a lithium fire.

>>28462296
Lung cancer, like from living near a coal power plant? More of which are being opened to keep up with electricity demand from EVs? If only there was some kind of basically infinite power source we could harness as a society, too bad I'm sure leftists would hate it because it has a 0.00001% failure rate when operated by thirdies.

>>28462300
You have no tools or guns, wrenchlet, nu-male

>>28462296
>>28462312
Or maybe lung cancer from brake pad dust, which EVs generate more of than equivalent sized ICE cars. Or maybe whatever kind of cancer tire particulates in the water table gives you, since EVa go through tires faster as well.

But that couldn't be true, EVs are good for the environment!

>>28462312
But anon, if they're using an ancient nuclear power plant, have incredibly incompetent workers for decades, and fuck up then it'll release a bit of pollution int the surrounding environment! Unlike our beloved coal plants that release comparable amounts of pollution 24/7

>>28462312
Source that living near a coal power plant gives lung cancer? Meanwhile countless data of high emission cities being plagued with lung diseases. ICEs are also generally less secure and more likely to get its driver and others killed. It's hard to fuck up like that in an EV.

>>28462337
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=coal+plant+cancer
read, nigger

>>28462337
>countless data
>less secure

ESLs get out.

>>28462312
>like from living near a coal power plant?
a) absolutely no one is opening new power plants, coal or otherwise, to keep up with EV demand. there's not that many EVs yet, and charging them usually happens at night when there's a drop in demand anyway
b) nobody lives (that) near power plants, especially coal power plants. well, no one here in the west. however, over 50% of the world population lives in cities, where ICE exhaust is the dominant air pollutant. transferring the pollution out of the city and to a power plant, is a huge win for public health.
c) we've done the math before, repeatedly, and even in the worst case where an EV is indeed powered 100% by coal power, its still better for the environment than ICEs. electricity transmission loses are extremely low, EVs are very efficient, and power plants are more efficient than ICEs

>>28462322
>which EVs generate more of than equivalent sized ICE cars
they actually generate significantly less, since they use regenerative breaking so much.
ESPECIALLY in city driving where emissions are much more of a concern, due to the far higher density of cars per . see above.

>>28462356
A little less than 2% of all US (48 states, Alaska would be cheating) land is urban or suburban. Maybe move out of the air conditioned ant farm?
Coal plants have the same efficiency as ICE btw and ICE have better emissions controls than some carbon capture bs. I'm a scientist, if I write a paper and conveniently ignore things would you just take it as fact if some blogger posts it?

>>28462239
>When you crash with an EV, nothing explodes unlike ICE.

Whats the point of lying when everyone has google?

Th vid I posted shows you how aa EV battery turns into a runaway inferno in a spit second when shorted or punctured

There have been a shitload of fatal EV fires like pic related. Even worse, most were survivable crashes if it wasn't for the bomb that is the EV battery

>>>28462378
Damn...crazy how nobody died in traffic before EVs.

https://www.evengineeringonline.com/did-you-know-ice-vehicles-pose-fire-risks-60-times-higher-than-evs/

>>28462373
>A little less than 2% of all US land is urban or suburban.
so? i said 50% of the population lives there. i didn't say its 50% of the area.
and if we narrow it down to the us, its about 80% that lives in urban areas. pic related.

>Coal plants have the same efficiency as ICE btw
the absolute worst power plants, old coal plants, hit around 40% efficiency
the absolute most efficient vehicles, toyota hybrids and diesels (ONLY in highway driving) hit around 40% efficiency.
and no, the ICEs in cars have nowhere near the emission capturing capabilities of power plants.

>>28462378
>Whats the point of lying when everyone has google?
Now that google has "AI" answers everyone takes what's posted there at face value and don't even notice the sources it tells you it got it from.

>>28462382
>i said 50% of the population lives there
And I said that's idiotic. That's a choice you made. This isn't 1890 anymore where you had to move to the city for a stable job and food.
Modern gas cars are ~25% efficient. EVs are heavier and have greater environmental costs from production and waste. Even with natural gas plants it's hard to really claim EVs are just better for the environment.

>>28462276
>EV only shifts this to those emissions coming from power plants.
but I don't have a power plant in my garage. I don't cross the power plant going from my car to the store or my office or a restaurant. move the emissions somewhere far away from me. that's what I want.

>>28461886 (OP)
what, it happened again?

>>28462386
>That's a choice you made.
no, its not

>This isn't 1890 anymore where you had to move to the city for a stable job and food.
it isn't 1890, but yes, people move to the cities for the exact same reasons. its where all the jobs are. well, not all, but certainly most of them.

you aren't a special snowflake, faggot. everyone (well, everyone who isn't an idiot or in their teens/20s, so, an idiot) wants to live in a nice village or suburb, away from pollution and noise and niggers. but not everyone has that luxury.

>Modern gas cars are ~25% efficient
like i said, the absolute best case for ICE is ~40% efficiency
and the absolute worst case for a powerplant is ~40% efficiency
and transmission loses are negligible, as are EV efficiency loses
therefore, moving the power generation from ICEs to power plants is a net win.

>>28462239
EVs explode without crashing lmao

>>28461886 (OP)
That's the SECOND time chinky-shit sank a boat. Not surprising and I've been waiting for it to happen again. Pretty soon, shipping companies will charge the slants absolutely staggering fees, to ship their garbage, or just refuse. They won't even be able to get crews.

>>28462398
>and transmission loses are negligible, as are EV efficiency loses
Most of the transmission losses are in modulation, like in a substation or in the plant. This is where most of the losses to heat are. Picrel says 6-10% but losses increase with system load. Some shittier countries its 20-30% losses. Then you have the 10-15% losses within the EV itself. And probably some in the chargers. Not negligible.
Then EVs weigh more and have a weight floor because battery packs are heavy and require shielding and a complex cooling system to avoid explosions.
Then the production and waste, you can't ignore that.
You can't just ignore things and legislate over how you wish the would could be.

>>28462428
>transmission/charging loses
yea, ok, not negligible
but remember, i was using the absolute worst case for power plants, 40%. pretty much everywhere, the power used to feed the ev comes from a mixture of coal(~40%), gas (60+%) and renewables (100%). overall, EVs are way more efficient.

>Then EVs weigh more
a) not so much. modern ICEs of comparable size are similar in weight. the model 3 is an absolute porker if you compare it to a gen 1 polo, sure. but if you compare it to a modern 3 series, its basically the same. unless the bimmer is a hybrid, in which case it actually weighs more.
b) what does that matter? surely you aren't going to start going on about road wear? that's 90% due to busses/semis/other superheavy vehicles.

>Then the production and waste,
why should that matter?
yes, obviously, reusing old vehicles (or at least, using them for longer) is more environmentally friendly than constantly building new ones. that applies equally to EVs and ICEs.
if anything, by virtue of EVs being much more reliable and much easier to repair, they should be able to last way longer. not that the average consumer will care, people will still want the new and shiny. but in theory, swapping an electric motor and/or a battery pack is child's play compared to maintaining an ICE

>You can't just ignore things
im not ignoring shit, and i certainly don't support further tightening of emission controls
imo we're WAY past the point of diminishing returns concerning the latter, and modern ICEs have become so bloated and complicated and impossible to maintain that we're actually building cars that are by every standard 100% disposable past the end of the lease.
were it up to me, i'd roll back emission controls to ~2010 levels. or whatever level allows for port injected NA motors.

but i also think EV drivetrains are incredible and i fully support them. not just because muh polar bears, but mainly because they are quiet, smooth, refined, powerful, cheap and reliable.

>>28462461
I'm an environmentalist too, I just really fucking like lightweight ICE cars. Yes I totally agree that ICE have been bloated, but it's both due to US CAFE legislation and the perception that big equals safe. And companies have been doing increasingly complex shit to shave off .05 mpg. It's not an inherent fault of gas cars more as a result of legislation. I am also pissed at the current state of ICE but I think that people push too hard against gas cars while ignoring the other literal 90% of greenhouse gas emissions and physical pollution like waste dumping, drug metabolites in the water, and plastic waste. Why do other environmentalists only focus on oil and cars, as they sit on their macbooks in air conditioned rooms eating refrigerated food, which they do not even understand?
I drive a 15 year old gas car, the only thing cucked about it is it has throttle by wire. All I do to keep it alive is oil changes, and a belt and water pump once. Shit's still on the stock alternator.

>>28462481
>I just really fucking like lightweight ICE cars
same, but i also like EVs. they have many advantages.
if you gave me infinity money, my daily would be a tesla. absent the social factors, it'd be the new EV RR, but they are not absent. a model X blends, the RR doesn't.
and ofc i'd have all sorts of fancy ICE sports cars for recreational driving, but the daily would still be an EV.

>Why do other environmentalists only focus on oil and cars
they don't. governments focus there because its an easy target for taxation and because they don't like the population being too easily mobile.

>All I do to keep it alive is oil changes, and a belt and water pump once.
yea, that's not going to be the case for long. ICEs really are quite complicated and they do require serious maintenance and repairs. EVs definitely have a huge advantage here.

>Shit's still on the stock alternator.
for the future, keep in mind that when an alternator shits itself, its usually just the brushes. if you can replace just that assembly instead of the whole thing, its way cheaper. and also better for the environment.

>>28461902
Never heard of it.
Because it never happened.
You have Hollywood brain rot.

>>28462493
>ICEs really are quite complicated
I'm a mechanical engineer. I knew how to weld, cast, create polyethylene in a lab, run a forge, and design full machines in cad when I was 17. I did, not a joke and shouldn't seem weird it's not that hard. To me EVs are more complicated.
I'm just tired of everything I like being banned. I'm fine with EVs, I'm not fine with a giant psyop based on limited information, lobbying, gov't intervention, and the destruction of US/euro companies who had to spend billions in R&D and retooling only for China to swoop in and cheat off of us for free.

>>28462498
> To me EVs are more complicated.
absolutely not. certainly not in a mechanical sense. the number of parts is vastly smaller, the number of moving parts too.
the software to make them behave well is somewhat complex, but nowhere close to what is inside a modern ECU.

>I'm just tired of everything I like being banned.
same

>the destruction of US/euro companies who had to spend billions in R&D and retooling
frankly, they deserve it. EVs were the obvious solution to the very real pollution issues that ICEs are part of, and they were very obviously doable for a long time before elon came along and proved it in front of the whole world.
those companies had every chance to eat their own lunch before someone else came along and ate it for them. but it seems the business community is incapable of learning the xerox lesson.

>only for China to swoop in and cheat off of us for free
china is china and does china things
nobody is forcing us to trade with them. or open factories there. or allow their students into our unis. this is 100% a political thing

>>28462504
Can we get a 2500 lb EV that actually has a functioning limited slip rear diff? That alone would turn the tides. It won't do anything for me, I only like manuals (I literally will choose a 150hp manual with good dynamics over a 450hp boat), but I think a car like that could work.
The Cybertruck was advertised for years as an offroad machine that would compete stock in the Baja 1000. Then 2 months before launch test vids were shown where it only gave power to the wheels without traction - they instantly scrubbed any offroading stuff from their site. There was a point where google results mentioned offroading in the site description but you'd go to the site and it was gone.
Is asking for all this torque to go to the wheels WITH traction just too much to ask for? I'm not a big fan of one wheel peel understeer.

>>28462325
the amount of uranium released from coal dust globally into the atmosphere every year is enough to make several thousand fission bombs. roughly 100,000 burger and 100,000 chink coal miners die due to coal mining related illnesses and diseases every year. it's bizarre that countries are hesitant about moving from coal to nuclear because of the fear of killing people

>>28462510
>Can we get a 2500 lb EV
probably not.
the battery pack weighs a lot. if we're talking big sedans/suvs, the ev drivetrain you're shoving in the thing is replacing a big ass ICE powerplant, so it kinda evens out. and if it doesn't, the whole vehicle around it weighs enough to make any delta inconsequential
but when we're dealing with a small lightweight sports car powered by a tiny 4pot, well, its very much different situation.
maybe in a few years we'll manage to do this, but for now, it seems like ~3-2.5k lb is about the floor.

>that actually has a functioning limited slip rear diff?
why would you want one? far easier to just give each rear wheel its own motor

>cybertruck
not sure exactly what happened there, but i imagine its a function of not having enough time to deal with all the rest and also deliver on that front
its certainly possible tho
far superior traction control is among the advantages of EV drivetrains. an electric motor can modulate its power output far more frequently and accurately than an ICE. which is one of the reasons that evs wipe the floor with ICE cars in launches, even nominally more powerful or better hp/lb having ICEs.
and as i already pointed out, there's no need to mess with complicated diffs, just give each motor its own wheel, and you have the optimal offroad configuration.
so, yea, since the cubertruck has 3 motors, 1 front 2 back, at some point in the future, tesla will finish writing the relevant part of the software and deliver it via update, and at least the rear of the cybertruck will have excellent traction in offroad situations. possibly the front too, iirc they actually did do some sort of locking diff there as well. but the rear, 100%, since its 2 motors.

>>28462528
>when we're dealing with a small lightweight sports car powered by a tiny 4pot, well, its very much different situation.
These are very much the only cars I've ever cared about. I've literally done full drifts this week (raining like crazy) looking out the side window to vector the car with throttle. With EVs or heavy landbarges you just don't get that. Nobody gets it, even if they want it.
The software is demonstrably not working out they cover for this with fat sticky tires that last 10k miles.

>>28462543
>sports car stuff
we'll NEVER get good EV sports cars. ev drivetrains are boring, because they are perfect. perfection is boring. and all evs feel the same too. instant torque, super low CoM, etc etc. its all the same. its not bad, its great, but its always the same and its boring.

>The software is demonstrably not working out
absolutely not.
the traction control software on EVs is working incredibly well, as demonstrated by their absolute dominance in 0-60s and 1/4 miles
the cybertruck launched with incomplete software, that's it. typical tesla things. it'll be fixed, if it hasn't already. don't own one, so not sure.

>they cover for this with fat sticky tires that last 10k miles.
also absolutely not.
if anything, EVs tend to ship with far skinnier and less grippy tires than similar perf ICEs, for the obvious range conservation reasons.
but yes, if you're constantly doing launches in your 500+hp EV, the tires will die a pretty early death. as they would in an ICE of similar perf that was treated this way.

>>28461886 (OP)
lmao, again? this is like the third time

>tldr: if you change the ruler, my dick is 12 inches (tesla’s 0-60 times are bs)
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review

>>28462386
Who even falls for this FUD anymore? Go have your kids breath in those exhaust pipe fumes from your car. I'm sure they'll become even smarter than you.

>>28461886 (OP)
wow

Now I support hydrogen fuel by nuclear power.

>>28461940
>fags
EVangelist say something ironic

>>28462346
No argument, troon

>>28461886 (OP)
Was it a Shitsla again?

>>28463102
I've run catless 15 years, and lived in Flint and ate bass I fished from the flint river during the lead thing, I'm still smarter than you are.

>>28462023
jokes on them i make my own

>>28462237
dude your headgasket is failing

>>28462337
the majority of coal deposits have radiological minerals in them as well, and in the coal itself. burning said coal disperses it into the air, even down to tiny dust particles that still emit radiation and get everywhere.

>COAL COAL COAL
Makes up for a minority of electricity source compared to nuclear/wind/solar/water and that ratio becomes smaller every year.

>In 2023, the EU electricity mix reached a new milestone with more than two-thirds of electricity coming from clean sources for the first time.

>Wind and solar combined to produce 27% (721 TWh) of total EU electricity generation – more than nuclear at 23% (619 TWh) and hydro at 12% (317 TWh). Bioenergy and other renewables contributed a further 5.9% (159 TWh).

>The share of fossil generation fell to its lowest ever – just a third (33%) of total generation, down six percentage points from 39% in 2022. Gas remained the largest source of fossil generation at 17% in 2023 (452 TWh), while coal generation only made up 12% (333 TWh). The rest came from other fossil generation, such as oil, at 3.5% (95 TWh).

https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/european-electricity-review-2024/eu-electricity-trends/

Meanwhile the petrol industry continues to ruin the world with its corrupt arab and American rulers. It continues to pollute cities and have turned some larger cities into a hellish smog. Everything about this 18th century fuel is awful. It doesn't even feel as nice driving ICE as EV. Literally just boomer nostalgia of muh V8 engine noise that is choked by city 30 mile speed limits regardless.

ice isnt any less flamable

*destroys your eco systems for the next 200 years*

Heh tax payers, clean this mess up as Ibn Al-Fuckface buys his 30th Lambo with your money.

It's very simple for me lads, our 'leaders' knew what was going on for a long time yet carried on anyway and now want me to stop doing what I enjoy because muh environment? while they continue to do the 'problematic' stuff enjoying themselves along with their rich buds? na no way, I'll roll coal and drive my v8 truck till I die and I have no children so the future can go fuck itself

>>28463319
>and I have no children
About that, anon I'm late

>>28463298
poeple are more concerned about whether they can put the fire out though

>>28461886 (OP)
Now that's what I call pollution!

>>28463332
Why is that always ignored? Like M8 I don't care about the fucking green thumb dick measuring contest I just want to be able to put out the damn fire. Most I could find is containing the fire with a fire blanket and waiting for it to burn out.

>>28463332
Why do you care? Once your car goes up in flames it's no longer your problem.

>>28463344
At this point, the passengers are all already dead anyways. You're more likely to die in an ICE than EV

>>28462381

>>28463332
does that fire look like it can be put out?

>>28463346
He cares because it's geniunely one of the last straws that ICEfags can grasp at. Not even the rate of car fires, because we know that ICEs burn far more often than EVs. But the duration of said fire, as if your car isn't already toast regardless once it catches fire.

Just read this thread and enjoy all the desperate copes. They can't cope with times changing and people wanting to move past a relic of the 18th century. Every time you fill up your tank, you're giving money to extremely corrupt and evil people. Every time you drive that petrol car, you make the world a slightly shittier place to live in. Every time you're on a highway, you risk a terrible fire death compared to alternatives, every time you service that car with oil changes, you give even more money to scummy people.

The ICE industry is a rotten hellhole and I'm happy the western world is slowly moving past that.

>>28463346
you'd be surprised just how effective your office fire extinguisher can be with someone who knows how to use it properly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-P7DyBLzKA
>>28463349
it doesn't require dunking them underwater due to reignition a week later. a passenger car battery fire is already difficult to put out, i guess for a bus battery you just have to let it burn out

>>28463351
im honestly surprised you didn't go down to the 17th century lol. if i'm parking any car in my garage i really do not want it to spontaneously bring my house down

>>28463353
Even when you're lucky enough to have five people standing by with fire extinguishers (this never actually happens in actual traffic), the people inside are already dead by then regardless.

>>28463351
Well technically depending where the car is burning and if you have an extinguisher it can be salvaged for some parts.

>>28463360
Nah ICE fires are common so I see plenty of people watching their trucks burn down on the side of the road. I think you play too many games.

Maybe a paintball theme park on the high seas?

>>28463360
if you're stuck on a highway well yeah you're fucked. electric or regular car. also that guy looked pretty not dead to me

>>28463364
>entire container/tranaport ship as paintball arena
cum

>>28461886 (OP)
Now that's proper environmentalism for you.
Straight into the ocean.

>>28461902
Yeah I saw 'The Birds' too

>>28462494
>a gas station explosion has never happened
???

>>28461886 (OP)
>every mainland Chinese cultural export is either fake or gay or both
>Red China shills EVs
EVfags BTFO

>>28461902
you remember when everyone was riding horses and london was getting literally burried in shit? it was worse than india

>>28462494
>Because it never happened.

>>28461886 (OP)
it has gotten so bad that some manufacturers won't even dropship chinkslop with button cell batteries anymore.

>>28464506
anon, that was the tianjin firework factory explosion. not a gas station.

>>28464506
>the gas station in china

>>28464506
>explosion
>china
Both of these are the same thing.