Thread 28462536

the fox was Ford's greatest RWD platform.

>>28462536 (OP)
na i think the panther platform is

>>28462536 (OP)
>live axle
bruh, greatest in what way? It can't turn, it can't drive straight, it's mad uncomfortable, and it just screams uncool. Besides looks and being a cheap rwd V8, it was not a good platform at all.

The base of the greatest Ford Mustang effort to have ever existed, the 1997 Saleen/Allen Speedlab racing team.

>>28462546
it still mogs everything else from the 80s. especially the AE86 which is the same exact thing but shittier chassis.

>>28462560
80s MR2s are pretty amazing

>>28462560
>especially the ae86

so what makes the ae86 worse other than being down 100hp

>>28462536 (OP)
I've never seen one of those cars IRL but they look so nice in photos.

>>28462583
These things are a diamond dozen out here in Mexico City, California

>>28462582
its shittier noodle chassis that caps its performance vs the mustang that has a higher ceiling.

>>28462536 (OP)
ENTER

>>28462536 (OP)
trash compared to the f body

>>28462616
the foxes would go on to age like fine wine. the F-bodies, particularly the 4th gen, gave the camaro a bad name.

>>28462546
>>28462560
>>28462589
You have never owned a Fox platform car and I can tell. I want to immediately distinguish that the ae86 is also a POS that was loved primarily for being cheap, but every single criticism (and then some) applies even WORSE to the fox body:
>Noodle frame
The car NEEDS subframe connectors. Even jacking one wheel off of the ground is enough to make the doors not open or close. Hatches have less stiffness than notches due to the roof structure.
>Live axle
SOME live axle hate is overrated, the fox body's is not. It was an over constrained four link with rubber bushings that constantly bound and disintegrated. This effectively gave the car a completely random rear spring rate when attempting to corner hard. Lack of a panhard bar or watts link also meant the axle could wander side to side. Drive a clapped one around even a roundabout and you can feel this.
>Brakes
Pathetic front calipers and rear drums. This was not corrected until the SN95.
>Steering geometry
This thing had fucking reverse Ackerman. The outside wheel turned MORE than the inside wheel past a certain point.
Foxbodies, when they were cheap and disposable, were liked for being easily upgradeable from a junkyard run. Exploder heads and better brakes from other Ford cars, etc.
They came with durable drivetrains and boomers hated how they looked, making them disposable toys for a longer life cycle. The car also had a very long production run, making aftermarket and spares plentiful.

>>28462588
>Diamond dozen
The IQ of this board lowers every day.

>>28462560
3rd gen Camaros looked better and handled better.
Fox bodies have absolutely shit suspension.
They got popular with the drag boys because they had a good axle and are very light.
Overpriced these days though.

>>28462621
82-92 F-bodies aged way better than the fox body platforms.
The 97-02 Camaro were very very good platforms that were extremely well designed.
Too bad they are ugly as fuck.

>>28462629
Why do you have such a huge ship on your shoulder, son?

>>28462625
All the flaws in the AE86 are worse in the Fox because there's 700lbs more weight

Being a flexy flier with no chassis rigidity can be worked around if the car weighs nothing (see: anything from the 60s-70s or EF Civics/NA Miatas)

>>28462621
yeah the 4th gens are uggo, I don't care about them other than to be engine and transmission donors to turd gens, shame nobody's figured out transferring the front suspension too yet

>>28462621
The 4th gens problems have little to do with the car itself and instead everything to do with the people that bought them. The redneck mullet machine association was already well established just half way through the 3rd gen's life. The 4th gen's problems were mostly to do with build quality and maintenance as half the engine is under the windshield.

The F-body lasted 35 years with the LS1 SS/Trans AM WS6 managing to stay competitive with Mustang GTs until 2010 when the higher output 4.6 came out. The Fox-based Mustangs were in production for 25 years from 79 to 2004.

How exactly has the Fox Body aged like wine? From my perspective it seems more like a race to the bottom that came from desperation. Pre-covid the S197 was still too new and relatively expensive for a cheap project car, the SN95 wasn't considered old enough to be cool and 3rd gens were at peak depreciation. They were basically handed out for free. 4th gen f-bodies stayed valuable because even if the rest of the car went to shit the engine/transmission was still worth money. Other than SVT versions nobody cared about the 4.6.

>>28462629
Your newfag is showing.

>>28462560
OH NO NO NO
MOGGED BY THE SUPERIOR IRS FORD

>>28462725
That's had a facelift, the first generation 1.3 didn't have the fancy window trim.

>>28462536 (OP)
It's crazy to see people hurr and durr about stock geometry on a fox like that can't be fixed, or that they only came with LRAs. That Cobra R in pic related pulled over 1.0g on the skidpad on '00 tire tech and had a IRS like all other '99-'04 Cobras.
>>28462683
>everything to do with the people that bought them.
>The 4th gen's problems were mostly to do with build quality
So was it the owners or the retarded maple fuckers that were stapling them together?

>>28462725
lol ford's first set of factory back sierras got cucked by privateer mustangs in group a.

>>28462546
It's not even that nice. The front ends are hideous and the notch back is the only redeeming quality.

>>28462725
Say hello to your basic RS500. It will dominate Saloon Car racing for a decade.

https://youtu.be/09eH__RQpL0?si=AvAScnRnF2vnEJr-&t=5

>>28462748
>So was it the owners or the retarded maple fuckers that were stapling them together?
A car can be mechanically fine but not put together very well. The stereotypical owner you think of bought them to do hektik skids and burnouts regardless of the condition. Any car would have issues when faced with that abuse

>>28462536 (OP)
S550 is superior.

>>28462774
>A car can be mechanically fine but not put together very well
So was it f-body owners fault 10-bolts were so fragile compared to an 8.8, or was that GMs? Or was the it owners fault GM decided to put 2-bolt main LT1s in F and B bodies compared to the more robust 4-bolt main LT1s in the Corvette? Lets not even get started on the cheap hard plastic dash in the 4th gens that often crack and have huge chunks missing, the flimsy seats, the lump in the passenger floor to clear the cats, the positively ginormous rear axle pan that doesn't allow you to lay stuff flat into the back when you fold the seats down e.t.c.. The initial quality which had nothing to do with the owners and is what led so many customers to buy Mustangs over 4th gens even though f-bodies were notably faster from '93-'95 until the 4V arrived in the Cobra.
>The stereotypical owner you think of bought them to do hektik skids and burnouts regardless of the condition. Any car would have issues when faced with that abuse
So what about the f-bodies direct competitor the Mustang? It's not like those didn't face similar abuse and there are still plenty for sale out there.

>>28462749
>we beat them in ONE race!!!
lmao

>>28462932
they cuck them in every race they both showed up in.

>>28462886
I don't recall much about the early 4th gens in particular because neither the SN95 or Fbodies from the time interest me much. I'm going entirely off of memory as someone that almost bough a 2002 SS CE new and hasn't thought about them much since. I had a coworker with a 2000 GT that after just a few years had faded paint and a cracked dash. They both had cheap Fisher Price plastic interiors. I also remember bashing my knuckles on the center console because the shifter was placed too close when he let me drive it around the lot while on break.

>So what about the f-bodies direct competitor the Mustang? It's not like those didn't face similar abuse and there are still plenty for sale out there.

Attrition. Ford sold more and most versions shared parts with other cars. When I go to car shows / the drag strip I see way more F-bodies and the owners are usually more than willing to tell you the story behind theirs. I personally haven't heard anything about the 10 bolt rears nor the 2 bolt mains being an issue but I've talked to more LS1 owners than LT1s.

>>28462937
you are coping little buddy

>>28462956
>sits in the corner and watches his wife get fucked
"heh, that guy fucking my wife is totally coping"

>>28462958
Keep coping with your cuck fantasies lmao

>>28462629
i hole-hardedly agree

>>28462546
that's actually a good thing, try putting down real power through your miata irs

>>28462967
if only Ford of europe could cope with their cuck reality and the sierra wouldn't have to be discontinued after one generation due to its poor reputation while the fox lived on for several more.

>>28462946
He's saying the ergos on the F-Body fucking suck for everyday driving and honestly the fit and finish on 4th Gens is a lot worse than the Mustangs. Leaky t-tops, power window motors that can break the switches when they fail, play in the seatback and steering columns, low ride height that has you scraping exhaust on speed bumps, and rattles over every bump. That's what made the Mustangs outsell the F-Body in the 1990s. The Mustangs were just nicer cars to drive everyday in. I forgot the huge overhangs too, they were physically big cars. A foot longer than the Mustang and not much bigger inside (other than being a hatch)

>>28462946
>I don't recall much about the early 4th gens in particular because neither the SN95 or Fbodies from the time interest me much
I dated a girl with a '97 T/A M6(which is why the shit ergonomics spring so readily to mind) and friends had a Z/28, Formula Firebird and SN95s, so I had a lot of hands on experience with both and I had a Foxbody then SN95s too.
>I had a coworker with a 2000 GT that after just a few years had faded paint and a cracked dash
I've never seen a cracked SN95 dash unless someone had previously installed a monster tach, they're soft touch unlike like hard plastic dashes on Chevy's and Dodge's of the era. So they don't end up looking like this.
>I personally haven't heard anything about the 10 bolt rears nor the 2 bolt mains being an issue but I've talked to more LS1 owners than LT1s.
10 bolts problems start once you apply traction, it's more of a M6 problem too since there's more driveline shock on the launch vs launching off a loaded up convertor. They're fine if you're on some all seasons or summers and they can spin. But if you add drag radials and get any wheel hop those things will shatter. It was such a common problem F-body guys were swapping in 12-bolts and Ford 8.8s and 9"s. And the 2-bolt mains are really only a problem under sustained high rpm abuse(which pony cars see a lot of) and the crank can walk a bit and ruin the main bearings.
>Ford sold more and most versions shared parts with other cars
Just like Chevy used the 2-bolt main LT1 and 10-bolt rear in the B-bodies, which there was actually more variations of than the Panther the Mustang shared powertrain components with between the sedan and wagon variants. Also, even the Camaro had a upmarket twin to share parts with(like the T56) and shoulder the sales battle.

>>28463156
>now he's coping by appealing to sales figures
Ok so now you're getting MOGGED by the Corolla, congrats retard.

>>28463197
its not about sales figures, though. people thought the sierra was shit so Ford had to leave the nameplate behind. i guess that's what happens when you get cucked by privateers.

>>28463200
Ah yes the sierra didn't sell enough, the mustang is better because it sold more.
Get mogged by the Corolla faggot.

>>28462536 (OP)
regardless of how good they supposedly are, i just cannot stand it's looks.
and it's not like it's blatantly hideous, i can't really describe it. i mean, it hardly looks like any other mustang in the family line so maybe that's it?

>>28462536 (OP)
Fox? I thought that was called a new edge mustang where the fuck did the fox come from? and the one in front I'm pretty sure is a cobra and a snake is definitely not a fox. Well actually looking closer it's got a horse too so it's probably a cobra body kit. See? Cobra has a snake.

>>28462588
>>28462629
>>Diamond dozen

>ESL detected.

Trump is coming for you buddy.

>>28463641
>you buddy
[reddit space]
>ESLlet detected
[reddit space]
What the FUCK is a "you buddy?!"

>>28463231
Every single mustang up untill the s197 facelift was just the smallest platform they had and slapped a v8 in it.
that's kindof what made it a mustang.
boomers hated the 2 because at that time the smallest car was the pinto.
even the big ones like the 70s model was still a falcon underneath.

>>28462757
>for a decade
>enter E30, the most successful saloon racer.....ever

>>28464582
>class victories
Lmao

>>28462546
>Live rear axle >:(
>Live rear axle :O (japanese)

>>28462536 (OP)
It was a limp-wristed POS chassis with a beautiful engine stuffed into it. Flexed like a wet rag, the minute you got the suspension and tires to hook up.

>>28464628
>no 351
>"beautiful engine stuffed into it"

And people complained about vettes going soft after 50-80k miles.

>>28464582
E30 ran in E30 class with all the cars that couldn't keep up with the fast cars, most of them couldn't keep up with the BMWs

>>28464627
Yes. Live axle isn't automatically bad, but shitty designs are shitty designs.

>>28464627
The live rear axle in Foxes was shit even compared to other American LRA cars of the time period (3rd Gen F-Body)

Mustang was always the cheapest green-to-next-red light speed a grown man can buy.
There's a reason why the niche was called a pony car, and a MUSTANG was -the- pony car.
Fuck, people, you can read words but you need to be reminded that they MEAN SOMETHING

I'd rather we talk about how regulations killed cheal fun.

>>28464872
Cheap

>>28464627
NOOO NOT MY HECKIN HACHIROKU

>>28462539
They built everything on the Fox, though. That was their bread and butter for a long time.

>>28462757
>Merkur
Classy ride.

>>28462758
Man, if I could afford to race for real, this is what I would do. That has to be so much fucking fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi6t6V4jgYo

>>28462805
It's not.
the Fox put performance cars back on the map after a long hiatus. 82 GT is only a 157 HP 2bbl, but it looked good and it sounded good, 4 speed, and cheap (and real light if you got the cheap one).

>>28463654
it being small or not isn't what bothers me. it's the styling. it both doesn't look like it's lineage or stand on it's own.
i have similar thoughts about the catfish camaro, so i guess it's just that era not sitting right with me, but there's all sorts from that time i'm perfectly okay with.

>>28465004
>it both doesn't look like it's lineage or stand on it's own.
Care to explain this logical fallacy.

>>28466283
Nta but I get it. It's not similar enough to look like an evolution of an idea, nor is it exceptionally different to be a revolution of the idea

>>28462536 (OP)
Not even fuckin' close

>>28466283
Not him but I think he meant that it doesn't look like the older mustangs, but the styling it does have doesn't look good enough to make up for it being too radical of a departure either

>>28466351
>It's not similar enough to look like an evolution of an idea
>>28466396
>it doesn't look like the older mustangs
>but it isn't as pretty as older ones or retro like the newer ones
So we're agreed, the Foxbody doesn't look like the Mustangs that came before or after. Yet by some retard logic it "doesn't stand alone".

Best one was the last of the 1st gen Mustangs and Mavericks.
>has all the chassis upgrades that the early Falcons and Mustangs needed
>has normal power steering, not that retarded hydraulic piston setup
>Dual a-arm front, chad leaf spring rear, all 5-lug

>>28466549
so you understand the point that was made, you're just being an obnoxious faggot then?

That's not an AU Falcon

>>28469253
No, I'm pointing out the fallacy in the retard logic. The fact that you don't understand that means you must have a room temperature IQ.
>it doesn't look older mustangs
>newer mustangs all have retro styling cues
>the only mustang hatch ever
>b-b-but stand on it's own
How about you actually make a cogent point you blithering retard, other than agreeing it doesn't look like other Mustangs which supports my argument.

>>28469829
I had a neighbor with a Cobra version in that color. It sat in his garage until he moved.

>>28462633
And shit frame that needed welding if you get on it too much. Shit brakes and horrible in the rain. Had 68, 87, 93 and two 04's. Ram air T/A's, Z-28 would mog these all day.

>>28469483
no debate

>>28466575
>>28469253
You guys do realize the Foxbody almost got a corporate trademark Mustang front end before they went to a swept back grille to make it distinctive from previous Mustangs, right?

>>28462549
The current rustang is way more succesful

>fox platform
Gay boomer maccastrut live rear shitbox.
AU - BF falcon mogs. And it has bones.

>>28462646
A fox body weighs 2800 lbs, dipshit.

>>28470249
ok and?

>>28469843
dude kept it locked up like quazimodo lmao

>>28463231
agreed the foxbody is horrible, as a self proclaimed racist the black woman designed pre face lift sn95 looks better

>>28469843
>>28471566
Speculators deserve the rope.
>>28471619
>hurr nigger designed car
>she actually helped design the interior
>w-w-we wuz kangz n sheeit!!@!

>>28471621
oh wow i did not know that, white pill of the day
new edge is still sexier tho

>>28464627
>live rear axle (euro-american) :DDDDD

>>28462536 (OP)
That's not a Falcon

>>28462536 (OP)
the sn95 was an objective improvement in chassis dynamics in every measurable way. boomer nostalgia is the only reason to believe the fox was a better car. neither of them are even the best live axle car Ford made, just the best ones that had a small block

>>28472382
>boomer nostalgia is the only reason to believe the fox was a better car
Foxes were about 300lbs lighter, which is a free 3/10s in the quarter. SN95 5.0s did mid 14s with a good driver, a notchback 5.0LX with a good driver could run a low 14 or a high 13 with the ignition bumped up to 12-14 degrees.

>>28462629
For all intensive purposes, it's a doggy dog world.