Thread 28488089

Are modern plastic-fantastic engines as durable and reliable long term as older engines made from less plastic?

yes
plastic is actually a good material for some parts because it prevents the transfer of heat from the engine block to things that shouldn't get as as hot as the rest of the engine, like the air intakes.
modern fiber-reinforced plastic is durable and very resistant to damage, it won't corrode, it doesn't need paint, and it cleans off nice.

some people seem to be deathly afraid that the bits will warp or melt or something dumb but if your engine is getting up to 500, 600 degrees F on the regular you probably need to make sure you aren't in fact driving a nuclear reactor.

>>28488089 (OP)
You already know the answer

>>28488134
yes because i just told him retard
dumb fucking chat jeetpt post

These are do-nothing plastic covers

>>28488136
No one's talking about you scitzoslop "plastic is actually, hecking good" lack of meds take I'm afraid.

>>28488147
plastic is fine retard
your engine doesnt get 500 degrees stop being a faggot

>>28488089 (OP)
No

>>28488103
I do wonder what these Plastics will be like after 30 years though, everything plastic on my 1980s Vehicles is brittle and snaps if I look at it wrong :(

>>28488215
glass fiber impregnated nylon on modern cars is some impressively tough shit
i have a skateboard made of it
https://lander.la/collections/rodeo-completes

>>28488215
Let's face it.

Plastic is not carbon fiber , so it won't last 30 years in a hot engine.

>>28488144
>plastic water pump impeller
>plastic water pump housing
>plastic turbo compressor cover
>plastic fuel rail
the list goes on
modern cars are 99% plastic

>>28488103
>modern
>fiber reinforced
That's filament impregnated nylon and it's older than nearly everyone on this website.

Someone correct me if im wrong but the biggest concern with modern engines are the variable oil pumps they have put in engines of the last decade that starve them of sufficient lubrication

>>28488296
That's one issue. Modern engines have smaller bearings and run thinner oil to improve economy, HFPFs are shit, EGR pumps shit into the intake, wet timing belts.

Problem isn't necessarily plastic parts, it's plastic parts that are 1 time use like new Ford valve covers and oil pans. Eventually they're not going to be available anymore from the OEM or elsewhere and you're either fucked, or going to have to silicone the fuck out of it and hope for the best.

>>28488089 (OP)
if they're made by a company that doesnt suck total balls, sure
>BMW plastic valve covers warping because BMW sucks meaning you have to replace them entirely instead of just changing a gasket

>>28488103
>bits will warp or melt
Literally no one says that.

>>28488311
every third retard i argue with about pentastars says dumb shit like the oil cooler or intake manifolds warp thoughbeit

>>28488287
you are a dumb shit ass retard who needs to learn how to read
no shit frp has been around for decades i'm talking about modern plastic formulations and part castings which are superior to those from 30 or 40 years ago being more commonly used

>Plastic is not carbon fiber
carbon fiber is literally just autistic fiberglass

>>28488339
Hilarious of you to think the plastics have any longer of a design lifespan than any other used to.

My hood prop bar clip snapped. It's a 12 year old car. The wiring covers, the body clips, wheel well covers. It all dries out and goes brittle after so long.
No chemical magic will change that. Plastic is oil and the lighter oils that make them pliable eventually evaporate out.

>you dumb shitass retard
Yeah yeah ok.

>>28488215
it really depends on the plastic. we could take it a step further and call plastics polymers. the intakes and intake manifolds on gmt800s are 20+ years old, but still going strong. the same can be said for their interior trim pieces. if the dash covers were made of the same stuff the components in the engine bay are, they'd never crack the way they do. polymers have also advanced some since the 1980s, but all plastics lose their luster over time. where steel rusts, plastic cracks and disintegrates

>>28488248
and they just so happen to be 89% garbage

>>28488287
>older than nearly everyone
How many people do you think we have here who were born before 1938?

>>28488306
or, hope the aftermarket wizkids at dorman come out with a slightly out of spec metal alternative

>>28488089 (OP)
No. That plastic becomes brittle because of age. Then heat from engine, turbo etc. Freezing cold temperatures will make plastic even more brittle. If you are wrenching your car at outdoors then UV from direct sun light will also slowly degrade plastics, rubbers. Many of those plastics are cheap garbage even in socalled premium, luxury cars. You will see this issue when car becomes 7-25+years old and yes the actual lifespan of plastic is very variable thing. It never lasts long like metal does.

Those idiots who defend use of plastics in cars hot temperature areas should KYS.

>>28488089 (OP)
>pop the hood
>its all plastic
Man I'd kill myself

>>28488222
Carbon fiber is plastic too, it's literally cloth and fucking plastic resin

>>28488334
then why are the plastic oil coolers constant repeat failures (even using OEM ones) and then the dorman aluminum one you hate so much never leaks again?

>coming soon to a German vehicle near you
Lol, lmao even. Going forward, eventually youll never be able to reliably own a car outside of warranty/lease period

>>28488415
>>28488334
99.9% of pentastar fanboys are complete fucking retards. The oil coolers don't break. The intake manis don't break. Some parts and an exhaust and a 91 tune does not and cannot give the engine 330hp either, well not without letting the limiters spin it out to 6800 and pushing the phasers to their mechanical limit.

What leaks oil in pstars is either the filter housing installed bad after an oil change, the cam galley bolts working loose, or a seal on something of the cooler going bad.
I bought a pentastar and it was leaking. Enough oil collected that it was pooled up in the V valley and draining over to the transmission.
You know what the problem was? The fucking oil filter oring was shit and they cranked it on there with retard strength. I haven't had any oil leak in 35k miles since I cleaned it up and did the first oil change.

>>28488523
Jfc

>>28488523
Wait, is that molded around the camshaft?

>>28488523
is metal really that expensive?
does that wear better?
i mean plastic can be stronger than metal in certain applications, say a barn made of preformed plastic vs thin sheets of aluminum, but what is the purpose in car engines? weight reduction?

>>28488523
I'm very confused looking at this, I know some German cars started combining valve covers and cam caps, but is this a self contained camshaft and valve cover you just swap in?

>>28488533
>330hp
>well, not without...
And underdriving the accesories and putting on an airbox without any harmonic rezzies and a TB that would flow enough for a mustang GT. And losing a hell of a lot of torque below 5000rpm and having an 800rpm power band.

320 is doable with a little sacrifice, 330? Not a chance in hell would that actually be faster than a 320hp build.

>>28488523
Plastic isn't UV resistant, so its not bad
But plastic is very plyable compared to metal. If you get a oil leak in a alu engine, one of the risks is that the heavier and harder metals move trough the engine and rips off the softer alu.

That is what the oil filter is there fore, but the only filter only do anything once the metal shavings has moved that far.
What do you do for the cumulative wear before the oil filter? Anything between the sump and the oil filter?

>>28488533
6800 is the factory limit thoughbeit if you put it in manual mode and wring it out

there are a lot of seals in the oil cooler assembly that seem to be the culprit for the notorious leaks. on early mopar ones it was the main block galley o-rings melting, on lots of older dormans it's the figure-8 seals in the heat exchanger melting, and also they changed the design of the main oil galley o-rings in 2015 so people trying to repair a pentastar and not knowing what part revision of the cooler to use or brainlessly attempting to upgrade will also cause another leak. the cooler is fine, and in fact the fact that is is plastic makes it better than the metal version of the part because the plastic prevents heat transfer from the oil/water exchanger and also reduces IATs by not radiating so much into the lower intake.

>>28488415
mine is at 200k and still on the original cooler so idk sux2suk, works on my machine
again problem seems to be the figure-8 shaped exchanger o-rings on old mopars and dormans and main galley oring got bigger in 2015, so if you buy a dorman meant for a 2014 and put it in a 2015, it will leak.

>>28488792
6800 is a lockout limit for the programming to reference when to cut everything (fuel, spark and throttle) and finish a shift if the transmission hasnt caught the engine by then. All other times the PCM+transmission module is coded stock for 6400-6500rpm shift points and a 6600rpm target maximum overrev. Pentastars are programmed for a 150-200rpm overrev in between gear shifts.

I've looked at chally/charger stock files all the way up to 2023, no matter which trans is in it these are the rpm points, why they're set that way and how they function.

for me, I would like someone to explain WHY THE FUCK do they have plastic impeller on a water pump. (VW original parts on many models, including golf)

>>28488792
The Dorman kits come with both main galley o ring sizes now

>>28488103
I have mixed feelings about the oil pans
I don't like how hard abd brittle they are, the steel pans could save you from some light damage by bending, but the plastic ones just break

>>28488935
The dorman units have atrocious casting and damn nearly "literally what?" finishing. The seals in those are also chinesium shit.
I wouldn't trust a dorman aluminum cooler to not flush shredded metal into the engine. I'd trust the chinese knockoffs on Amazon considerably less.

With MOPAR you either go oem or you're fucking yourself.

>>28489061
>With MOPAR you either go oem or you're fucking yourself
Bro Mopar is 100% chinkshit now, do you even wrench?

>>28489061
Not my experience.
>just buy another plastic one that will shit itself again bro
Nah

>>28489068
Made in china =/= made by china
Or do you really think the ripoffs on amazon that are 1/3rd the price are as good

>>28488760
>If you get a oil leak in a alu engine, one of the risks is that the heavier and harder metals move trough the engine and rips off the softer alu.

>>28489061
i have a dorman and a chinese metal oil cooler on my parts shelf and the chinese one is literally a recasting of the plastic part mold seams and all, it's hilarious. the dorman is thicker and better machined, but not by much.

>>28488835
because coolant causes electrolysis and the metal impellers corrode and become useless gradually.

>>28490136
that sounds more like an issue of bad electrical grounds and not changing coolant at the required intervals

>>28490142
every metal part on your car is part of the electrical circuit and this will happen at microscopic levels even if you do change your coolant. you'd have to change it literally every day to avoid it.
the collapsing of cavitation bubbles causes corrosion, old coolant causes corrosion, your cars own electronics cause corrosion, plastic impeller ain't care

>>28488369
Absolutely agreed. High-quality plastics are just fine and extremely durable at lower temps, but God forbid you make an intake manifold out of such.

>>28490148
>intake air temp = coolant temp
retard

>>28490151
Not sure what you mean. In any case it's not as if coolant temps are quite like that of the contact surface between an engine block and an intake manifold, which is about 200 C higher,

>>28490160
plastic insulates the intake charge from the engine's heat right up to the point it enters the chamber, a metal intake absorbs the block's heat and transfers it to the intake air, increasing iats.
if you have a turbo or something and the air is already kind of hot it's okay, but for an n/a engine a plastic or resin intake is objectively better

>>28490169
>giving up your dignity for slightly cooler iats
Yea, not worth it. Fuck your fisher price engine kek

>>28489155
Bro I don't give a single fuck lol I don't do rentals, I don't do chinkshit, I don't do plastic.

>>28490275
>dignity
??????????

unironically imagine being this fucking WEAK you are EMASCULATED BY A PLASTIC INTAKE holy shit i almost feel bad laughing at you

>>28490277
I'm weak yet you're shilling rentals and Jewish penny pinching schemes kek, btw fuck your little gay YouTuber nobody knows who this little tranner is and fuck automatics I know you're about to shill those next

>>28490292
bro you're seething so hard at this totally inconsequential thing you have to be under 6ft
normal height people don't think this way

>>28490293
>I'm weak
>I'm short
yet...you're shilling rentals, jewish penny pinching schemes and automatics.

>>28490296
hehe go gettim lil buddy

>>28490160
Lmao he thinks a liquid cooled engine's external gets any hotter than the coolant. You fucking idiot. Why do you think head gaskets start to fail above 140C. You think the outside of the cylinder head is 350?
Fucking lmao.

Also plastic or metal, doesn't fucking matter. If the engine is fully warmed every part in it and on it heat soaks to whatever temp it would be anyways.
Ehl Emm Ayyy Oh.

>>28490590
In the computer nerd zone and well I guess anything thermodynamic we call this the thermal equilibrium, and yes at a constant output there's a point of time where everything is simply the temperature it is going to be no matter what it's made of.

>>28490590
>Lmao he thinks a liquid cooled engine's external gets any hotter than the coolant.
the engine we are talking about features a oil-water-air cooling block located in the vee of the engine directly under the intake manifold, a rather complicated thermal setup with exhaust gases being used to warm the coolant in integral headers and a very hot thermostat that lets the engine get up to 260+ degrees coolant temp in stock configuration during towing or other work.
external parts of the pentastar easily exceed 212 degrees F

>>28490961
What the fuck are you talking about nothing in that comment chain was about a piss baby faggot star.