Just left comfy job at a Kawasaki dealer, boss was a massive asshole. Previously worked for Triumph, love me some bri'ish bikes. Got hired on at H-D and yoooo, what the fuck is this company doing? Half the customers are dying out or having their Social Security checks bounce, and new bloods don't like the nu-harley models like Gayster and Buttbusters. Where is this company headed, the way of the dinosaur? All the new models are pretty much shit except for the 50k+ CVOs and Street Glides; but the newer Sportser is a travesty and Nightster a war crime. It seems like the new models cant compete with the older lineups; price and feature wise. What, if anything, has Harley done in the past 3 years that made sense?

>>28489087 (OP)
Funny enough my local Kawi dealer is also the H-D dealer. One of the guys there recently admitted to me that, despite like 70% of the floor space and 98% of the merch space being devoted to H-D they actually do more business in Kawis, both in numbers and dollars.

>>28489099
I believe it. It's hard to convince anyone to sign on for a 15k plus bike that doesn't really meet their needs. All the old hogs are dying out or in prison. Biker gangs don't have the gravitas they used too. I feel like Kawi made great bang for your buck; I wonder why the corpos can't figure out they need to break into the smaller sporster market. Fuck, everything is a cruiser, make a naked or a cafe racer or a scrambler, jesus. Too many models that are all the same shit at the end of the day. They signed their own death warrant when they discontinued the Iron 883, I think. Those are good little bikes.

>>28489087 (OP)
I think they've resigned to going out of business eventually. They just exist as a stock dividend at this point. Panamerica is decent, but the rest of the lineup is too expensive, too slow, too heavy.

Raped by Porsche do not forget this goy {loadtrigger;porsche-sendreplyAPI}?נאנס על ידי פורשה אל תשכח את הגוי הזה

>>28489151
Yeah, it sucks too because I genuinely like the V-twin cruiser thing, the brand's heritage, and the idea of owning an American bike. I think one of the big issues is that Harley has all this cool history that they completely ignore - WW2, flat track and hillclimb racing, etc. - and just endlessly circlejerk the '60s and the MC/Easy Rider chrome and skulls cliches. It's a miracle that even the Heritage Classic is still a thing but man, they'd have a way higher chance of getting my money if they made a WW2 throwback bike, or something sporty, simple, and colorful that evoked those racing days, or whatever.

>>28489087 (OP)
No love for the M8 Softails? The Low Rider S is the first Harley that I actually thought about buying.

It's a fashion brand for low iq peacocking boomers. I think you either love it or hate it.

>>28489230
Low riders are sweet and smooth; but they are competing with themselves.

>>28489222
This. So much this. When they gave me the corpo training course that was the coolest thing; but they are totally ignoring that heritage. Which is another thing; hard to sell new bikes when all the really good models are from the used private sellers. Like they want to consolidate their manifacturing line and meet european emissions standards, but they seem to do it in the most retarded way possible.

>>28489275
I actually was shopping used, so I guess you're right. The Pan America ST is something I'd likely have to buy new, I don't think too many are being made.

>>28489230
That or a Street Bob would be my pick from the current lineup as well. I have no interest in a gigantic bagger, I just want something fun to rip around the local area on, the whole "bar hopper" concept I guess.

>>28489281
The Pan Am is a funny case for me. I want an ADV and a Harley, and I know the Pan Am is actually a really good bike, but somehow I just can't get myself to want one. If I'm gonna get a a Harley I want a Harley Harley.

>>28489290
Yeah this was a step forward for them, but they picked a bad market to try to compete in. It IS a good bike, but the most interesting thing I've seen is guys take them, delete the windhield, and start stunting and doing hooligan shit with them. Pretty nifty. If they had something like that but for other types they might stay alive. I think that by tryingbto cut costs and consolidate lineups to the same 4 basic bagger bikes they are putting themseoves into a death-spiral.

>>28489099
>tfw eyeing up the new n500 or maybe an old stock n400 just to get back into track riding.
I wonder how much they changed on the bike besides engine bore/stroke/euro5 tune.

>>28489320
>16k
>for a bike that genuinely competes with a $25k beemer.
>with longer service intervals too.
>still not shifting inventory
brand faggots are certainly delusional.

>>28489892
The panam had some serious wiring harness problems early on and that gave them a bad rep. It kills me to have to go to school and then pay off the loans instead of immediately buying one now. This could easily be a forever bike.

>>28489087 (OP)
>fucks over it's customers
>barely rebuildable
>Confirmed Diversity Retard company
>CEO is a barely-functioning moron
>massively overpriced
...and YOU get a job with them - stellar decision.

>>28490569
>Barely rebuildable
Of all the Harley criticisms, this is not a valid one.

>>28490569
>>barely rebuildable

>>28490569
At the old dealership it was of those get a new job somewhere else or blackbag the boss man and feed him to a gator in Cado lake kinda deals. Guy was a prick. One of those "were a family" kinda workplaces. Harley was just what was available. I will say though, the bike nights and events are pretty fuckawesome. Bikinis, Bandidos, and Badges all in the same parking lot with music and drinks. Even cookouts with the oldheads at demo days is fun. And daily I get to run on test rides on big-bagger bikes or street bobs, and get paid to do it. I just feel like Harley has turned into this friend that is a stumbling drunk and if you got him to sober up he could get some cool shit done. Idk. Just bitchin. We are supposed to be getting a new CEO soon I think.

>>28490569
Barely rebuildable? Bro the used market is my own worst competition. Fuckers are riding around on bikes from the 80's they fucking inherited and had the engine rebuilt 3 times. The fuck have you heard?

They are overpeiced though, yes definitely. Best bikes are used from private sellers, not factory new. It's that bullshit scheme where they expect you to loan on a new bike, and just barely pay enough to not be underwater on it before borrowing more on the new year model. Just never-ending debt management.

HD's Board of Directors destroyed the company. They brought in Joaquim Zeitz a German that helped the Puma sneaker brand recover from bankruptcy. Zeitz is an anti American globalist.
He wanted to move HD into the future by disassociating from the idea of hard working, blue collar Americans and moving to the Euro cool trendy up town crowd.

This video lays out how anti American globalism infested HD HQ in Milwaukee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvtfMYtpxh8&t=801s

One example of what Zeitz's trendy, cool uptown vision did for Harley Davidson.
HD cut the R&D budget for it's entire product line while devoting $400 million to the development of the electric motorcycle.

>>28492222
>the idea of hard working, blue collar Americans
Ideas don't buy motorcycles you /pol/ mexican.

The pan America is a fantastic bike, so is the nightster, actually the retards are Japanese bike riders who won’t consider a Harley because they think they know what the bikes are like even though they’ve never ridden one. I was like this for a long time.
My next bike is a Harley without a doubt.

>>28489087 (OP)
They really fumbled it with Livewire. Their specialty is fat comfy cruisers, why did they try to make a sporty trendy electric bike? They should've made a 300+ kg electric behemoth of a cruiser. Smooth, relentless acceleration, fairings for comfort and aero, maybe even retro-futuristic styling to invoke 50s space optimism. Even if it ended up shit, it would've been a bold statement that put them back in the spotlight by virtue of nobody else being mad enough to do something like that, not a wet fart that lost in every comparison test and became a laughing stock.

>>28492233
Sat on a Nightster for the first time last week, felt really nice, almost like my Triumph used to. The exhaust looks goofy, would definitely look around to see if anyone makes something nicer.

>>28489087 (OP)
>harleys are completely prehistoric dinosaur technology
>for some reason requires dot 5 silicone brake fluid instead of dot4 like literally everything else
???????????

>>28492294
This is a good example of what I mean
Harley makes thoroughly modern engines and uses cutting edge components. Their top spec models always have. But they let the sportster stagnate for so long and it was so popular that people think all their bikes are old tech. we’ve even had coming on five years of new sportster. People are so retarded…

>>28492351
For their defense I'd happily buy the one in your pic if it was cheap. I like its looks and it seems easy to ride and repair.

>>28492355
The one in the pic is from the early 20th century, it’s not related to the post
You wouldn’t buy it because it has a suicide shifter, three gears, etc

>>28489087 (OP)
The new Low Rider S is one of the best bikes I've ever ridden. It's fast, great handling for a cruiser, great build quality, and it even has TPMS. I plan on buying one eventually

>>28492371
Okay so it operates like a bicycle with an engine? That sounds neat.

Harley Davidsons are like cruises, yachts, going to and enjoying Las Vegas, tipping, playing poker, cigar smoking, writing cheques and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. It’s boomercore. If you like these things then you’re a boomer. No one is buying the things now because they aren’t boomers

>>28492233
>actually the retards are Japanese bike riders who won’t consider a Harley because they think they know what the bikes are like even though they’ve never ridden one
slow?
t. japanese bike rider

>>28493224
Faster than (you)

>>28490569
>>barely rebuildable

The HD aftermarket upgrade path is so good you can and many thousands to build complete clones often of much larger displacement. The HD designs are notably easy to rebuild and overhaul.

You are not a mechanic with relevant multibrand rebuild experience to so your opinion like your posing soul is trash.

The DEI shit is on point tho so I want "new HD" to die. The aftermarket is all serious bikers will ever need.

>>28493265
unlikely

Comfy

>>28493426
Riding to parliament as fast as possible to insist on importing another 10 million jeets

>>28489087 (OP)
Are you a mechanic or a salesman? If salesman then I think you fucked up. Regardless of whether or not Harley's are objectively shit (they are) it's going to be harder to convince cunts to buy shit that you, yourself wouldn't buy.

>>28492437
sounds like boomers are cool and you're lame

>>28493612
Love my harley. Been reliable and comfy :)

>>28493224
>slow?
anon, some harleys have 60 hp these days and only weigh 800lbs!

>>28489320
People are building super hooligan bikes out of them and racing them. Pretty cool.

The DNA is there to build something people would buy. But we know if HD sells a street super hooligan they would fuck it all up and then charge way too much for it.

>>28494160
Is it comfier than pic related?

>>28492257
The only one who could've conceivably pulled that off would have been Buell.

>>28492351
>Harley makes thoroughly modern engines and uses cutting edge components. Their top spec models always have.

According to whom and may we have supporting FACTS with that? Yes, this is a trick question because I learned the answers over decades of experience and being not just a mechanic but a motorbike history enthusiast.

>>28492257
They can't get decent cruising range from an EV.
The Livewire was a decent enough bike, might have been a good choice for early EV adopters if Harley didn't killed it by charging a $10K premium for no fucking reason.

>>28492222
>hard working, blue collar Americans
Those haven't been able to afford new Harleys for decades now.

>>28495294
Okay retard

>>28495357
1996 sportster 1200 msrp at 7360
adjusted for inflation 15108
2026 sportster 1250 msrp at 15999
real disposable income 1996 8417, 114% the price of the sportster
real disposable income 2026 17806, 111% the price of the sportster

I heard an advertisement on the radio for my local HD dealer. They were offering deals on “brand new 2023 Harleys”. Either they are lazy and have been running the same ad for two years or the bikes are sitting.

>>28495357
>have working man's job
>have harley
Feels good man

>>28496476
Just checked my local Harley dealers inventory, they do have 2023 bikes, all heritage classics, and 2024 bikes, mostly heritage classics. Guess these are not popular in my area

>>28496482
Heritage are nice

>>28496559
Not my style, I think they miss on the panniers especially

>>28496722
You can always be a try hard and get a dyna

>>28492418
No, it operates like a car with two wheels. The clutch is the foot pedal and the shifter is a big joystick. It's retarded

>>28489170
>I think they've resigned to going out of business eventually
They should've goob'd like 20 years ago. If you predicted in the year 2000 that HD would still in business after 2010, you'd be laughed at.

>>28489170
Still 10% of motorcycles worldwide, 20% of the American market, they can shrink significantly and still be a major presence and certainly not go out of business

>>28489170
More that they know full well their brand will never compete with the likes of Honda. I think the rebranding as a high profit margin luxury brand is an attempt to compete in the Ducati and BMW space.

>>28492222
Wasn’t he out in April at least? Harley needs a turnaround with someone else

>>28492222
Checked

Came here to say this. I don’t care about Harley, but I know they brought in some college boy who is trying to turn the company into everything their loyal fans hate. Big investment in electric and then had to spin it off into a totally different brand because Harley owners-buyers were disgusted.

>>28489087 (OP)
Their cheapest bike is like 20k. Who wants to spend that much on a bike?

>>28500307
You're wrong and that's OK

Rip Buell :*(

>>28500364
Trash company just doing trash things

>>28500364
Buell is alive and producing a kickass bike atm. It's called the super cruiser, look it up.

>>28500390
HAAAAAAA.

>>28489087 (OP)
How do you still have 2 Fat Boys and 2 Limiteds left? We literally couldn't hold onto them at our dealership. I'm still waiting on Fat Boys and Street Bobs for like 10 people because they want a new one with the 117, ride modes, and that warranty. If anything, that's Harley's greatest flaw. Our cruiser line bikes always sell when we get them and we don't get them in quick enough to meet demand. We also can't make it up with used. More time thinking means less of a chance to buy. The special edition touring bikes are a similar story. We have no leftover 2024 limiteds, only 1 Ultra left, and now 2 CVOs (the price makes them harder to move even though they're supposed to be rare).
Harley needs to hammer home the Softail line and keep everyone supplied. All 5 of the dealerships in my 50 mile radius are out of pretty much all of them. Same with already loaded touring bikes. The question on a base model touring model always turns to "what are my tour options?" "when could I get that in?" and "how much does it cost?" People like to get a bike with everything they already want on it and included on the price tag. Yet all they send us is base model Street Glides and Road Glides. We sell them, sure. I've taken a lot of people on test rides on them, and gotten them loving the bike, but it'd be easier if they felt like they were buying what they wanted immediately. I get that it pushes more people to service by selling base models, but it's loosing sales.
I'm personally loosing out on money, My dealership is loosing out on New sales numbers, and the motor company is losing out on customers and numbers the board members would like to see.

>>28500307
The cheapest bike is the Nightster at $9,999. The Street Bob, Sportster S, and Pan America all come in at under $20k MSRP. If you find a holdover 2024 model, then the normally low 20s cruiser bikes come in well below $20k. You can find a Low Rider S, Breakout, or Fat Boy below $20k if they've been sitting for a while. Problem is, they don't normally sit that long. As soon as our last 2024 Low Rider S was reduced to $18,995 in April it was bought up that day.

>>28500435
Tldr

>>28500435
*losing

>>28500453
You know it's some kid trolling

>>28500521
I'm shocked that OP's dealership has hard to find models in stock. I wish HD would make more of the popular, cheaper models, as well as, the fully loaded touring models to stock back up dealerships. They sell extremely well and their absence from showroom floors means lost sales.
>>28500531
I don't know why my mind did that. At least I was consistent in my retardation

>>28495294
The PA ST basically IS the level of street super hooligan I think most buyers would actually want. Still relatively comfortable riding position even with the manlet special seat, good brakes, good tires, good motor, they gave it a tiny windshield so people can pretend it's a naked. Put a tail tidy and pipe on it and you're done.

>>28500872
Drtl

>>28501438
>manlet special seat
As someone with a 33" inseam, I appreciate the thinner and lower seat. It's comfortable well providing a good overall ride height. Plus, even when the suspension lowers at a stop, it's not really for shorter people. It only bottoms out at a touch below 30". Too often average sized women want to try it because they think it'll be an ADV they can flat foot on, but unless they're a little tall, it's not going to happen.

>>28501547
I have a 36" inseam, stop trying to sell the bike to me harder. If I can put a well engineered tall seat and risers on one of these things, I'll ride it until the wheels fall off. Then I'll put it back together and do it again.

Harley sales nostalgia. You can get better bikes with the same cruiser vibe for a lot cheaper.
Their brand name makes more money than the bikes and thats sad.
They had a run right after the AMF years where the bikes were affordable and reliable. It lasted until the mid 2000s and when it started flagging they finally put in fuel injection which gave them a small boost.
The problem is, the bikes were fairly reliable and aftermarket support can keep them around forever.
Now you can get a fuel injected 883 for 1/10th of the price of a new sportster. The guys who bought them new in the 90-2000s are aging out of ridding and only the old die hards are still trucking. It keeps a steady supply of good condition old bikes in the market.

The new bikes are so grossly over priced for the market that even the doctors and lawyers who can afford them are opting for BMW, or Indian. Harley is just the generic American bike. Indians are getting more heritage cred and BMW are getting the "for show" bike money.

>>28502005
Esl?

>>28489087 (OP)
I just can't bring myself to even consider a Harley. It's not the bikes, it's the riders, everything about the brand image and associated larping is so incredibly cringy to me that I just can't bring myself to even consider looking at one.

>>28502047
So you let strangers control your life?
Neato!

>>28495354
>They can't get decent cruising range from an EV.
Livewire is a naked with 15 kwh battery and can go 100 miles on highway. Double the battery and clad it in an aero fairing and it'll go 200+. Add that fast charging that cars get nowadays and you get a perfect 30 minute break to go take a piss and eat a hotdog. It'll be a huge bike, but Harley is all about huge bikes, they know how to make them work.

>>28502087
Ok boomer

>>28502087
>30 minute break to go take a piss and eat a hotdog
Talk to a urologist.

>>28502052
It's my decision to not want to be associated with that type of person, the only element of control they exert is the conditions they set with which I can choose to interact or not.

>>28502173
Sorry you're so obsessed with what others think of you.
You should get help with that :)

>>28502005
>Indian
Low quality trash

>>28502047
>>28502173
Have you ever actually met "Harley people" or is it all internet memes? A lot of different types people ride Harleys. Drywall guys and dentists, old guys and even some younger dudes, guys who'd only ride a Harley and others just want a big touring bike for trips too long to take on their R6 for them, etc., etc. I don't really like the term "big tent" because it's applicable to all brands, but it's even true with Harley.

>>28502290
Its a nobike parroting fb memes.

>>28502290
Across the various jobs I've held, I've had 7 different coworkers that rode Harley's.

>1 I just didn't know well
>1 was legitimately retarded to the point of being illiterate, he would trailer his full dressed touring bike down to Sturgis once a year and constantly wear Harley branded stuff, that was Gord, he was also a morbidly obese manlet.
>2 of them were all in on larping as sons of anarchy and were obnoxious douchebags.
>1 was a really trashy woman in her fifties that chainsmoked and constantly showed off her disgusting butterfly tramp stamp while trying to hit on my manager, incessantly talked about her ex-husband and how much of a cunt he was.
>1 was a convicted felon that did 5 years for assault and was a total asshole to be around, he was my supervisor.
>The last was surprisingly enough a complete dork from IT, he was okay enough when I'd talk to him, but I'm pretty sure he was a furry.

None of those really people really leave me with a positive view of them. To be honest, most Harley's aren't even my style of bike to begin with, but those people are enough of an extra nudge for me to look at the other brands if I want a cruiser. Also, I'm a Canadian, so a brand wrapping themselves in the American flag like HD does, will be at best neutral or maybe even slightly negative for my impressions of them.

>>28502351
>nobike
lol no
>parroting FB memes
those exist for a reason, and a lot of people on the outside use those as a basis for their opinions. I'm not interested in dealing with that.

>>28502542
Wow! That's a lot of made up stuff I'm not reading :)

>>28502162
that includes 20 minutes of talking with random strangers about your ride and your wheels

>>28492257
They got paid a ton of money by the government to make the Livewire.

>>28504245
Ok. And