Thread 28502234

Who was in the wrong here?

>>28502234 (OP)
porsche driver for not signaling his overtake attempt.

He didn't have enough time to complete the pass before the next corner and the BMW driver may have felt like he was going too fast to make it around that corner without cutting the apex - and he was not given enough warning to slow down to a safer speed at which he feels safe enough to make it around the corner taking the wide line.

Unnecessary risk by the Porsche driver.

I hate bloated pigfat nucars with a passion but I have to admit all that extra bloat is not for nothing, that is a seriously impressive crash structure.
My old tin can would've folded up like a cardboard box in that scenario.

germoids for existing. The Soviet Union should've just taken all of germoidistan and squeezed them even harder than they did East Germany.

>>28502234 (OP)
RAPED BY BMW HAHAHAHHAHA

>>28502243
Tell us more, pablo

>>28502234 (OP)
if some german says fahrten to me im not going to be able to do anything exept laugh

>>28502234 (OP)
How much for the wheels?

>>28502238
Yep that's real safety cell shit on the porch

>>28502246
>>28502235
Nigger
>>28502234 (OP)
The bmw was at fault. He was clearly aware of the Porsche yet he kept flooring the gas and cuttting the apex on purpose.

Jail time

>>28502263
The charges officer?

>>28502263
it was a tourist fartin' day so you can't expect everyone on the road to be a professional driver going 10/10ths. porsche driver should have exercised better judgement.

>>28502263

1 - It's the responsability of the overtaking car to do it safely
2 - The BMW never indicates that's going to move aside, it's the ADHD nigger in the Porsche who tries to force the situation
3 - It's a RHD BMW, the Porschetard was in the blind spot on top of it all

>>28502263
>The bmw was at fault. He was clearly aware of the Porsche yet he kept flooring the gas and cuttting the apex on purpose.
You can literally watch the speedometer on the Poor-sche as it attempts to do a pull from 100-120 to overtake the BMW and fail. This is because Poor-sches struggle to accelerate past 100mph.
>touristenfarhten
https://nuerburgring.de/driving/touristdrives?locale=en
Literally a Tourist-Drive day. It's supposed to be 100% non contact and in most cases non-passing.
>>28502274
Worse than that: they specifically tell people not to pass and don't even try it.

>>28502234 (OP)
Touristfahren rules say you have to pull to the right when someone faster is coming, so BMW is at fault

>>28502280
Are there any other tourist farting rules or is that the extent of it?

>>28502234 (OP)
Thankfully both of them totalled their cars

>>28502234 (OP)
If they survived this it means we seriously have to cut back on safety nannies. No one should survive such a high speed crash.

>>28502303
>No one should survive such a high speed crash.
Where does it say so?

>>28502234 (OP)
ICE fags look at this and think this is less dangerous than an EV crash, where the cars would never flip or explode.

>>28502283
No lap timing, it's very dangerous

>>28502310
>where the cars would never flip or explode.

question, what if this happened in a real race, who would be at fault

>>28502311
Any rules for the car doing the overtaking or...... ?

>Both drivers are reported to have survived the incident, but their cars weren’t so lucky. Although the Nurburgring is technically a toll road, most insurance policies specifically void cover on it due to the risk, meaning the drivers might have to swallow the whole cost to replace their cars themselves. And that’s not the only bill they’re facing.

>The company that operates the Nurburgring will also be sending them a large bill for the damage caused to the Armco barriers. Who do you think was at fault here? Drop a comment below and let us know.

>>28502316
yeah fuck that, i would never take any responsibility on that track

>>28502315
Overtaking only on the left

>>28502309
On the brand mark on your mother's back, you subhuman.

>>28502322
Is that really the entire extent of their guidelines for overtakers anon?

>>28502323
Weird seethe out of nowhere, are you a pajeet?

everyone in this thread is a literal benchracer with zero track time.

>>28502325
Check for yourself, I'm not your mom
https://nuerburgring.de/info/company/gtc/driving-regulations
https://nuerburgring.de/driving/touristdrives/safety-regulations

>>28502316
oh no rich fag will have to spend some money

>>28502327
So, you too?

>>28502326
Nope but you might be. No one except disgusting jeets would enjoy cars being transformed into huge bloated stuntmobiles just to protect the two mutts racing on a tourist day. Also the BMW was from the UK, it was most certainly some kind of jeet driving it.

>>28502336
>no u
You lost lol

>>28502234 (OP)
Rubbing is racing. Both are at fault and pretty gay for not using a Camaro or a Corvette.

>>28502335
ive made no argument.

>>28502337
>You lost lol
>no mention of the point discussed
Hispanic blood.

>>28502344
Not going to read some pajeet's retarded argument

>>28502346
Cálmate wey

>>28502243
Shalom

>>28502331
Yet you claimed to KNOW the BMW driver was at fault due to your "knowledge of the rules"?

>>28502341
>no position is the best position
Busrider it is then

>>28502350
Yes, quotations not needed

>>28502354
Did the overtaker break any rules?

>>28502357
Why are you asking about the overtaker, aka Porsche now, when prevoiusly you were talking about the overtaken, aka BMW?

>>28502353
not an argument

>>28502237
2pbp
Novice mistake
Clearly not enough space or power to overtake
The retard coming from behind thought he was driving a Senna, he was not

>>28502369
As opposed to your extremely compelling argument?

>>28502379
i made no argument, only an observation that has yet to be challenged.

>>28502368
>too retarded to follow the conversation
You claim the BMW driver is at fault because he broke the rules, did the Porsche break any rules?

Just like Klaus Ludwig

>>28502381
I also made an observation brainlet

>>28502234 (OP)
At US tracks you can only pass with a point by.
It's a gentlemen's agreement basically.
Boone passes unless bot parties agree.

>>28502384
no, you made a assumption.

>>28502397
You made an assumption anon.

>>28502399
no. i stated a fact that has yet to be argued.

>>28502382
I can just tell you are trying to set up some kind of "aha, got you!" smartass moment

>>28502399
>>28502403
both of you just suck each other's cocks already.

>>28502403
I also stated a fact that has yet to be argued anon.

>>28502404
Is the "Gotcha" just that there are also (OBVIOUSLY) rules for safe overtaking which the Porsche driver didn't adhere to? Putting them both at fault?
Not that much of a gotcha really is it....

>>28502414
>Is the "Gotcha" just that there are also (OBVIOUSLY) rules for safe overtaking which the Porsche driver didn't adhere to?
The only rule is overtaking on the left which he was adhering to actually

>>28502421
Are you sure there aren't any other rules anon?
Can you really just fly up behind anyone you like as fast as you like whenever you like as long as you're on the left?

>>28502410
So you assume that bus riders are more common on /o/ than bench racers?

>>28502423
Are you sure you can't?

>>28502425
So you assume that everyone in a thread is a bench racer with zero track time just because bench racers are common?

>>28502427
I have used my enormous brain of common sense to deduce that OBVIOUSLY there would be rules for safe overtaking and I will assume that to be true until proven otherwise.

>>28502430
It's not an assumption if its fact since everyone's comment here so far has only proven that they have zero track time.
We also have a forum dedicated to bus riders. There is no reason for them to hang out here.

>>28502234 (OP)

P-car didn't get the point by. And there wasn't enough space to get by before the turn anyway. Simple as.

>>28502436
It is also a fact that you are a busrider since your comments here prove that you have zero driving time.

>>28502434
>deducing
>assuming
>when i literally linked the rules on the track's site here >>28502331
You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

>>28502438
I am only stating facts, yet you continue to make assumptions.

>>28502267

Reckless driving. The Burger King Ring counts as a regular highway when they do the tourist drives. No racing allowed. It's just a fun drive on the public road.

>>28502234 (OP)
dickhead bmw for blocking an obviously faster car. Faster cars coming up are clear and visible, so he had plenty of time to tuck his ego back in his pants.

If you disagree you've never had a coping retard in your way on a track

>>28502441
I mean we don't really have to go too far out on a limb to assume the race track open to the public would have guidelines or rules a little more stringent than:
>do whatever you want, whenever you want, as fast as you want, as long as you're on the left lol!

>>28502444
I am stating facts anon, it is you who is making assumptions.

>>28502451
I mean, you can read the rules yourself

>>28502455
then lets agree to disagree

>>28502457
I don't have to anon, it is obvious.
I suggest YOU read the rules before making retarded claims like "the BMW is at fault".

>>28502458
No.

>>28502449
>Porsche coming up on the blindspot since the BMW was from UK
>taking for granted that the other driver has seen you and can adapt to you cutting into their driving line when said driver is an amateur who might not be using to driving at those speeds and is possibly too focused on staying in control of the car to constantly check their mirrors during a series of corners
>overtaking on the inside of a corner which is a dicey move even in professional motorsports
>bmw was clearly not blocking or he would've stayed left

>>28502460
>admits to not reading the rules
>argues with me, who read the rules, on what the rules are
You came from stupid town?

>>28502507
>overtaking on the inside of a corner which is a dicey move even in professional motorsports
Touristfahren rules mandate overtaking on the left, no matter if it's inside or outside >>28502331

>>28502510
Ok so what rules do overtakers have to adhere to then mr "I've read the rules" anon?

>>28502507
>taking for granted that the other driver has seen you and can adapt to you
good point, I would assume all bmw drivers to be ego drivers unless proven otherwise

seems clear to me that the bmw driver is being negligently unware on a track with other faster cars

>>28502513
https://nuerburgring.de/info/company/gtc/driving-regulations
Ctrl-f "overta"
2 results
>Vehicles must use the roadway. They must drive on the right-hand side. Overtaking is only allowed on the left. Drifting is not permitted. (The relevant one to this discussion)
>There is an absolute ban on overtaking in the area of accidents and other danger spots. These must be passed at an appropriate speed, but at a maximum of 50 km/h (irrelevant here, there wasn't any accidents and it's not what you were arguing about)
https://nuerburgring.de/driving/touristdrives/safety-regulations
Ctrl-f "overta"
4 results
>The provisions of the German Road Traffic Ordinance (StVO) shall apply. Overtaking on the right is prohibited.
>No overtaking on the right. Overtaking is only permitted on the left. Violations will be penalised.
>When light panels are switched on, track safety personnel are on the track, flashing lights on track safety vehicles and/or flag signals, please observe the following: Adapt your speed to the situation, no overtaking, be ready to stop, switch on hazard warning lights. (Also irrelevant here, there wasn't yellow flag or anything of sort on)
Anything else? I'm tired of spoonfeeding an illiterate retard

>>28502526
>and other danger spots. These must be passed at an appropriate speed
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>28502529
Was that a danger spot?

>>28502507
Just ban uk cars lmao

https://youtu.be/p9lTgkB8UdI?si=fXzkyTehxyR3qyNj

The Porsche driver had not the power to overtake there. In a ‘race’ it would be the BMW drivers fault for closing the gap, but also in a race I doubt much overtaking happens there without a flash because it’s just too high speed.

Given this is a tourist drive I think the Porsche driver is 100% to blame. You can’t just assume the guy sees you at that speed. Could be his first time on a track and he’s barely got his wits about him. Porsche driver thinks he’s a pro and has a right and has the ability to pass the BMW despite not realizing he doesn’t know the capability or intentions of the BMW. He mad a stupid move hope he has to replace both cars

>>28502564
In a race, the Porsche would still be at fault because the BMW is in the racing line and he's not
In fact
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwGyiawpfhM
Guess who got the penalty here

>>28502711
Generally speaking in Indyshart if the front wheel of the passer is past the rear of the passee he must leave space. In F1 they switched it to be a little more defender friendly iirc. Either way the Porsche was guilty in the N24 no doubt. In this case he was side by side but at the same time becuase it’s more than one turn in the turn it does have dive bomb like vibe to it

Nobody died btw.
However, a few days prior there was another incident where the driver was less lucky. He died (lost control of his car @schwedenkreuz)

>>28502882
in a GR yaris during his bachelor party. 2 passengers survived

>>28502887
the GR Yaris is not easy to drive on the very limit. it’s extremely twitchy and demands very delicate inputs, else you’re going for a slide which catches people off guard. Didn’t know they were in a GR Yaris. Thanks for driving my insurance up, I guess

>>28502387
Wrong. PB only required if you are in the basic-bitch intro groups (typically green and blue in my area). Git gud enough and no point by needed because it's assumed both racers are not retarded.
If your HPDE group requires PB in all levels then your group is ghey.

>>28502249
>touristfarten

>>28502310
or be able to do a single lap of burgerking before going into limp mode

Germs fault for not building wider road. Both drivers for bringing nice cars to the track. Look at bikes, people bring out the most clapped out ratty bike for racing. These are idiots. Also, BMW driver at fault for not giving way.

>>28502247
>basedbooru
says it all

>>28502338
>Rubbing is racing.
Most of the world rejects NASCAR.

>>28502234 (OP)
>>28502235
BMW at fault easily. Hes also SLOW AF

>>28503504
>Hes also SLOW AF
You know how it is.
>everyone faster than me is a fucking maniac
>everyone slower than me is a fucking retard

>>28503051
My group has several former 24 hours of Le mans, Daytona, and spa drivers.
Everyone gets a point by.
No point no pass.
Doesn't matter how good you are.

>>28503751
Congrats on being in a group of boomers if they require PBs from former pro racists. Not the flex you think it is.

>>28502234 (OP)
>two nepo retards crash into each other
>both survive
Unfortunate

>>28502267
Driving a bimmer and therefore being non-white.
The sentence is death.

>>28502234 (OP)
Stupid ass Porsche™ piggy trying to overtake on McDonkey's tires.

The Porsche driver was filming (((((content))))) and is therefore at fault.

>>28502316
>>Both drivers are reported to have survived the incident
legitimately impressive
from the webcam it looked like both were dead on the spot

Probably Karma avin a giggle based on what happened at the 24h Burgerking

>>28503877
well he got his 1st place win ripped from his hands for that

>>28502234 (OP)
>Who was in the wrong here?
Obviously the tourist that farted

>>28503886
GOTTEM

>>28502234 (OP)
When it comes to Tourisfahrten, overtake at high speeds is really only advisable on a straight not a corner.
This Porsche driver was trying to get some sort of lap record.

>>28503873
They were both in modern European cars, not your gay goyotoa jeetorolla where the airbags don't deploy and you instantly get turned into road kill.

>>28503542
kek trueeeee

>>28502238
would he even survive that though? being whipped around like that and then catching on fire

>>28504139
The fire was from the fuel tank which sheared off from the front end of the Porsche

>>28502277
>1 - It's the responsability of the overtaking car to do it safely
NO it's the resposability of the slower car to stay in the RIGH side and used the mirrors before coming to the left side.
>2 - The BMW never indicates that's going to move aside, it's the ADHD nigger in the Porsche who tries to force the situation
There is no moving "aside". Cars must stay to the right except during overtakes.
>3 - It's a RHD BMW, the Porschetard was in the blind spot on top of it all
The Porsche was behind for at least 2 corners as we can see in the video. The BMW driver never looked in the mirrors.

The Porsche overtake was perfectly reasonable. TF is not a trackday (dumb americans can stop spouting that bullshit). It is a toll road, ONE WAY, TWO LANES! BMW crossed the road without checking his mirrors and without signalling. ZERO awareness.
Misha Charoudin has said the same.

>>28503777
Those GenXers are faster than you and I anon.
No point, no pass.
That's why our group has had ZERO avoidable crashes from passing in the 12yrs of the track being open.

Only crashes were suspension or tire failures
Saw a Brand new Michelin non-DOT slick fly apart for no reason.
Shit happens.

>>28504480
>TWO LANES
Says who

>>28502235
public toll road, you would never even get your license to drive in this country
>>28502237
2pbp, 100% correct, porsche should have his license revoked and have to pay for all the damages

>>28503751
>No point no pass.
>>28504564
>No point, no pass.
Not him, but what does this mean? Do you signal with your left blinker, and wait for the guy in front to signal you back? With his own blinker, or a honk?

>>28502511
"I'm only allowed to overtake on the left side, but overtaking on the left before that corner seems a bit dicey. I guess I had better get behind this guy and wait until there is a spot where I can safely overtake on the left."

Seems straightforward to me.

>>28502234 (OP)
>BWM has his line picked for the turn
>porsche decides to undertake directly through the BWMs line as they go into the corner
porsche driver had it coming

>>28502316
meanwhile i can smash up some street furniture in my shitbox and the council will just have to put up with it

>>28504480
It isn't two lanes it's one lane. And there is strictly no passing unless the person in front indicates to let you pass.

Porsche's fault

https://nuerburgring.de/driving/touristdrives/safety-regulations?locale=en
Porsche violated rules and is at fault.
>Deliberate contamination of the track is prohibited.
>It is prohibited to take photographs, film or make video recordings during tourist drives.
>The tourist drives are about enjoying the driving and NOT about the timing. The laptiming is forbidden.

>>28502234 (OP)
M2 is at fault and here's why:

1. Wrong-way intrusion
The other vehicle drifted across the centerline into the oncoming lane—violating lane discipline and initiating the hazardous scenario. That’s a clear right‐of‐way violation.

2. Split-second defense
The dash‑cam driver (or Tesla’s system) responded instinctively: braking was followed by an evasive rightward swerve to avoid a head‑on collision. In many jurisdictions, that’s considered a reasonable reaction under duress

3. Collision caused by correction
Critically, the other driver swerved back into the correct lane at the last moment, precipitating the crash—after the dash‑cam had already begun evasive action

>In head‑on or near head‑on accidents, the vehicle that enters the opposing lane typically bears primary fault, as they violate proper lane usage .
>Evidence suggests the oncoming driver’s lane discipline breach directly caused the chain of events leading to the collision.
>Some insurance adjusters might argue for partial shared liability (e.g., if evasive steering contributed), but the consensus is that the first wrong‑way movement is the proximate cause

The oncoming driver is at fault for drifting across the centerline. The dash‑cam driver’s reaction—whether braking or evasively steering—was a reasonable, split-second attempt to avoid a collision. Absent gross negligence, their response does not transfer blame.

>>28505079
Kill yourself AI jeet

>>28502234 (OP)
why the fuck did the car just explode like it was made in china? VAG shit not even once!

>>28502538
>>28502526
Different person... firstly, using my own judgement;

If there's a curved road, (I'm talking a serious turn) that requires most drivers, even most vehicles outside of a 992 that can handle such a turn at speed, using normal mental judgement, I would be slowing down.

Both assholes are at fault using basic road safety in either country (see next paragraph). The BMW decided to veer left, instead of braking on apex, whether they could see the 992 or not. The 992 however, continued forward to overtake when they could clearly see the other driver wouldn't yield. They kinda put their vehicle and safety at risk.

If we apply road safety of either the US (my country) or Germany, you'll see it is simple; Both vehicles should've driven defensively. For the Porsche driver, it should've been THE MONMENT they saw the bmw steering out of line. The bmw driver should've slowed to take a turn, which would be a normal reaction to turns, not letting the vehicle veer without correcting the steering angle.

Now, to note I do not have track experience, but I do watch tons of americans on the roads and see so many fail to even correct steering. I also see retards going mach fuck by me and many others to gain a second or two of time from the gps.

IMO on a track, even if going for times, making sure you have a clear run or a safe run is the most important thing BEFORE going fast for funzies.

>>28502316
Kek. I work in an adjacent road barrier industry and the bill for the reinstallation of that little spot is going to exceed 10k eur.

>>28502725
I hate american egos so much and how it affects racing rules. If you dont have more than half my car you dont have the position to claim forcing my behavior. Fucking front tire at my rear means I give way? May as well say your front at my rear when we cross the line means you won.
Eat. Shit.

>>28502234 (OP)
>Who was in the wrong here?
Hello from Germany. The official ruling was made today.
The tourist driver from Poland in the Porsche has been found to be 100% at fault for engaging in Laptiming behaviors on Nürburgring.
This is banned specificially within the rules (https://nuerburgring.de/driving/touristdrives/safety-regulations?locale=de)
>Bei den Touristenfahrten geht es um den Fahrspaß, NICHT um Bestzeiten. Die Zeitnahme ist untersagt.
And so the result is the Polish driver in the Porsche has been assigned total liability.
Since neither vehicle were insured under standard German provision because of the conditions of participation and track-standards for this day, neither driver is eligible for insurance claims. The Polish driver must pay 100% of the costs to restore the barriers and grounds, of which the British BMW driver is exempt.

Have a good day.

>>28505516
>>28502234 (OP)
>Who was in the wrong here?
The ultimate answer to this question from a German perspective is that we are in the wrong for allowing Polish "people" to drive a Porsche on Nürburgring.
Clearly additional rules or conditions are needed.
Perhaps a test of driving ability.
The Porsche brand has attracted many middle-east/Indian buyers recently, despite the artificial added costs.
A problem.

>>28503348
I say it's the Third Army's fault for not letting the Rhineland fall to the Soviet Union. But failing that, it's at least George C. Marshall's fault for proposing subsidies sufficient to leave West Germany with enough discretionary money to keep investing in the track.

>>28504480
>basing your opinions on what a brown immigrant said

>>28504480
>Misha Charoudin has said the same
>literally who slav subhuman thinks exactly like the other slav in the Porsche
The polak was found to be at fault. Settle down.

>>28502336
are you familiar with the phrase "terminally online"

>>28505310
The BMW keeps the tracks line perfectly
The Porsche is off the line and doing a late divebomb into the apex, even if there was no contact it's doubtful if he would've made that turn

>>28505967
Shut the fuck up.

>>28505462
their own employees repair them
its not that crazy expensive

more like 5k in damages to the track

>>28502234 (OP)
Porsche driver is at fault

>>28505522
Post car

>>28502277
>>28502507
Should've lived in a country with the steering wheel on the correct side

They already came out and assigned blame. Both were at fault, and both drivers are now banned from coming back. Porsche was trying to race during a tf and attempted a dangerous overtake coming into a turn, M2 wasn't paying attention and drifting between lanes without checking

>>28504818
You reach your hand out the window to wave the guy behind you past.

>>28502234 (OP)
All the benchracer opinions can be disregarded.
The Porsche was at fault. He needed to wait until he had a safe pass or for the BMW to point by

>>28502263
Except the BMW is not beholden to the faster cars?
The BMW gets to race his line and it's his prerogative to give room to the faster Porsche.
The Porsche doesn't get to bully his way through the track and make the BMW alter his line.

>>28502316
You can still get insurance. It's just not covered on "regular" insurance plans.

>>28506730
BMW driver was very inexperienced I'm assuming, and following an exaggerated version of the racing line in an almost straight section of the track. And he was going so slow you wouln't expect him to actually stay on a line and just keep right.
So Porsche guy approached and saw the slow BMW move over to the right, which is normal behaivour and went for the pass. But he didn't know BMW guy was actually slowly following his idea of a racing line
IMHO it's BMW guys fault for moving left without checking his mirrors (the rule is to stay right unless you're passing) and generally acting unpredictable
He had no right to be on a racing line at the speed he was going

>>28506748
Both are at fault. Porsche driver shouldn't overtake heading into a turn when he didn't have the space to complete it before the turn despite speeding up by 30kph. also Porsche driver saw the bmw's behavior two turns prior and should have expected the bmw to not be staying in lane

>>28506798
The Porsch driver had space, the BMW driver drove into him.

>touristen farten
German is easy