I'm seeing all these videos on Youtube of insanely high-mileage Teslas still retaining most of their original performance and range. What are the implications for the auto industry with mileage no longer being the important metric it once was?

https://www.jalopnik.com/1896764/high-mileage-electric-car-efficient-as-brand-new-one/

>>28513554 (OP)
It's nothing new, EVs are just catching up to combustion vehicles that have been going much farther than any single Tesla has gone on it's original motor. The implications of EV tech taking so long to catch up are clear, going by dropping sales metrics and rapidly dropping demand for EVs all around, regardless of what automaker they're from.

>>28513607
Most combustion engines have had more work done than your mother after 200k miles.

>>28513708
What did he mean by this

>>28513708
simply incorrect. I have a fiesta at 180k and literally nothing has ever been done to it. l2 change ur oil, redditor.

>>28513713
he's saying whenever people talk about high mileage gas cars, they've had basically everything but the block replaced. how can you say a car can last 200k miles when you have to replace every pump and every hose and every gasket and the radiator and the transmission and a dozen other things. and anything that hasn't been replaced yet risks breaking spontaneously with little or no warning. and then if you're buying it used then you have to hope the po did everything they were supposed to when they were supposed to and did it right and that you're not taking in a problem child that might break down in a week
meanwhile an ev with 200k miles is literally the same as a brand new one. you don't even have to worry about if the po did maintenance because there's none to do. you get less range than a new one but worst case scenario you still get around 80-85% of max range

>>28513731
I've seen Chevy Expresses make it to 200k+ miles with an ungodly amount of engine idle hours with nothing more than less than a handful of oil changes. Sure not every ICE vehicle can do this but you can say the exact same thing with your 5000lb EV. You're delusional if you think all the wear components, plastic coolant connectors, electronics and their s0i based wiring, etc aren't going to wear out or break just because it's a EV. Even golf carts need maintenance and repairs and that's as primitave as it gets...

>>28513743
they don't though. obviously if you run over something and get a puncture then you have to fix that. that's not maintenance.

>>28513554 (OP)
>Car and driver's Model 3 performance lost 7% battery health in 6 months
Grim

>>28513554 (OP)
I get what this article is saying, but the headline is intentionally misleading. Most Teslas have lost at least 20% of their battery capacity at 5+ years. There's plenty of proof of this and the EV even hides it from the user. They car may not have as much total wear as an ICE vehicle, but EVs lost massive amounts of their resale value compared to cars

>>28513731
>how can you say a car can last 200k miles when you have to replace every pump and every hose and every gasket and the radiator and the transmission and a dozen other things
what in the FUCK are you driving please, so I can avoid ever buying it

>>28513743
>Chevy Expresses make it to 200k+ miles
>with nothing more than less than a handful of oil changes
im pressing X to doubt, anon.
im not saying its not possible, im saying its extremely unlikely, and nobody should expect or rely on it happening.
ESPECIALLY on anything remotely modern. i can sort of halfway believe that shit if we're talking about an old merc diesel from the 70's/80's. but anything with parking sensors? forget it.
ffs, modern direct injection engines will at the very least require you to clean intake ports at 100k. that's not a maybe, that's a certainty.

>>28513916
For some weird reason, EV drivers online have had to do complete engine and transmission rebuilds at 100k miles for every car they've ever owned. I have a ford van with 350k miles and other than fluid and brakes, I've only had to replace the radiator and transmission

>>28513554 (OP)
I see lots of ~5 year old evs for sale at reasonable prices. Apparently nobody wants a (literal) ticking time bomb.

>>28513924
>20k for a five year old Tesla
>Half range
>Still costs $15k to replace the battery at cost under warranty

>>28513907
>Most Teslas have lost at least 20% of their battery capacity at 5+ years
more like 10 years. and it reaches a steady state around that point.
whatcar recently had a 2016 model S on a range test with other EVs. it managed 200 miles before it stopped, on a mixed cycle.

another important consideration is the practicality/financials of repairing them.
there's the urban legend that
>omfg if your battery dies its 20-30k to replace it
when in reality, that's just horror stories from early nissan leafs. tesla batteries are in the low teens atm, and the prices will continue to fall as economies of scale increase year by year.
plus, you have the benefit of it being a very easy to diagnose and repair part, which means labor costs are always going to be low.

all of this is to say that, for people buying a new (or 2-3 year old used) EV now, i don't expect battery replacement will be an issue at all. in the unlikely event they keep the car for 10+ years, by the time they need to replace the battery, it'll probably cost in the low single digit thousands.

>EVs lost massive amounts of their resale value compared to cars
that's entirely unrelated to battery issues
its 100% a combination of
a) most affected EVs were very obviously 1st gen products with serious issues, eg lacking a heat pump and/or having a very shitty range even when new. who tf wants to buy a 1st gen etron that had < 200 miles range when new, in the summer, when new ones are 300+ with a heat pump
b) the main demographic that would buy used EVs are the urban poor. the rich are buying new, and the rural poor are going to be buying trucks mostly. but the urban poor live in apartments. which means they can't charge at home. which means an EV is out of the question. which means there's very few people in the used EV market. which means demand is low, which means prices drop.

>>28513937
>it managed 200 miles before it stopped
fucking grim

>>28513964
>grim
for a 10 year old model S on its og battery?
for a first gen product, of the first truly commercially available ev ever?
i'd say its fucking outstanding.

>>28513968
It's pretty terrible

>>28513968
>for a 10 year old
Unironically yes. Even when new its range was embarrassingly low, and now it's significantly - and even more embarrassingly - lower.

>>28513964
>>28513977
>>28514021
you're all missing the point here
the 2016 model S was rated at 270miles range from the epa. which means the real world range was actually lower.
and 10 years on, it managed 200 in a real life test
which means battery degradation over 10 years was less than 25%
on a 10 year old, 250k mile EV.

>>28514049
there is a limit to the number of cycles the batteries can run, though.

>>28514051
sure, every part will eventually fail.
but 10 years and 250k miles is apparently survivable for 1st gen model S batteries. that's pretty good.

>>28513918
I'll press X to doubt. There's absolutely no way in hell any internal combustion engine ever went 200k miles with 100% factory parts. I mean there's basic maintenance that you HAVE to do. Simple shit, spark plugs, filters, you can't ignore that. Maybe it's possible that you can get 200k out of every factory hose and gasket and pump but those cars are one in a million. Rockauto wouldn't exist if every part on every car lasted forever.

>>28514049
You are missing the point here. 270 miles is an embarrassingly low borderline useless range, epa or not. 200 miles is a *much* more embarrassingly utterly uselessly low range.
>it's only 20% shittier than its previously epic shittiness that means its secretly great guise
is not an effective argument to people with functioning synapses

>>28514066
Are you illiterate you dumb pajeet? The topic is battery degradation in a decade old EV.

But an ice car would still have 400mi range after 10 years. How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

>>28514058
there's a kiwi dude that delivers newspapers in his 93 corolla wagon, does 5000 km a week. he bought it with 80,000 km on it in 2000. it hit 2 million km in 2023.
fortnightly oil changes
20 timing belts
1 set of wheel bearings
original engine and tranny

>>28513554 (OP)
Forklift mechanic here, obviously not 1:1 but:
We basically don't touch the electric forklift drive motors. The steer motors are DC and thus need occasional brush replacement, but the AC drive motors (like every electric car uses) pretty much just werk. Most of my day is chasing odd sensor-related issues like finding a missing teeth on a belt that drives an encoder.
Your main maintenance items are going to be battery coolant/the battery coolant pump, and usual suspension/brake wear.

>>28513937
>when in reality, that's just horror stories from early nissan leafs.
It's usually some bumfuck dealer, who doesn't have an internal HVET, and doesn't want to contract one, so the customer gets quoted the "fuckouttahere" rate.

>plus, you have the benefit of it being a very easy to diagnose and repair part, which means labor costs are always going to be low.
Diagnosing shit is easy, however hourly rates are mucho bux, due to the aforementioned HVET requirement.
Though some of the more greymarket 3rd party shops yolo it without the certs.

>a) most affected EVs were very obviously 1st gen products with serious issues, eg lacking a heat pump and/or having a very shitty range even when new.
Those are utterly undesirable. Only feasible route for them is getting parted out. You could theoretically bodge shit from later versions onto them, but there are very few techs who know how to do that, without your ass randomly ending up Big Whopper-ed later due to some imperfect connection.
The models released in the late-10s see better movement, not least due the abovementioned unwanted 1st gen shitboxes dragging all the prices down.

If you always slow charge your EV and keep the battery % between 20-80%, the battery lasts extremely long. The issue is if you’re a second or third owner, you have no idea how it was used previously.

>>28513937
> demand is low, which means prices drop.
wrong

>>28514496
You can do a battery diagnostics. Lots of Model S owners who solely used the free supercharging report good battery longevity too.

I'm not buying your Tesla I'm waiting for an electric buggy. And when I do get said buggy I'll program it to make rc car noises from hidden speakers at the wheel arches at 99 volume and slap a ridiculous wrap unlike you joyless no fun having bad faith arguing poo poo pee pee pillers. So there.

>>28513554 (OP)
When people are concerned with mileage on a vehicle the concern is typically not about efficiency.

>>28514339
Are you illiterate you dumb chink? The topic is clearly range, and the utter inadequacy of EVs in this regard.

>>28514654
he's right, you're a fucking retard.

>>28514654
The topic is battery degradation from base values, you illiterate monkey.

>>28514496
You can request a battery health report from somebody with the diagnostic software.

>>28514899
The base values are comically inadequate, you drooling mong

>>28515665
The base values of a battery health are comically inadequate? No you're just a miron that can't differentiate between battery health and estimated real life range.

>>28515836
*moron

Inb4 typo autism

>>28513554 (OP)
obviously if they need to change battery engine and other stuff every few months lol.

The Germans did a similar test recently with VW ID3. 160k km on the meter. Battery capacity is at 91%. Funnily enough the range is the same as purchase date since the car has had OTA updates which improved efficiency.

What's most interesting is how battery degradation hits a plateau after a certain threshold.

https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/autotest/vw-id3-dauertest/

>>28517333
Actually what's even more interesting is that EVs don't have 100% capacity brand new. Going from 96% to 91% in the course of 160,000 kilometers is borderline neglible compared to the wear and tear of other car components. The battery and electric engine are very reliable and durable components of EVs.

>>28513708
my 1G-FE has done 350k km with only oil and timing belt changes

>>28517333
>>28517340
Why do you retards not understand basic chemistry? Battery capacity sure as fuck doesn't plateau after a certain point. It gets exponentially worse. Also trusting VW lol... They have definitely never bullshitted anything in the past lol.

>>28517742
>Battery capacity sure as fuck doesn't plateau after a certain point
Look at that picture. You see how battery degradation lessens, from 130k to 170km a mere 1% drop. This lines up with testing done on old Teslas where a 5-10% drop hits linearly only to plateau somewhat afterwards.

>Also trusting VW lol
Nobody is trusting VW here. These people aren't connected to VW and are doing their own battery diagnostics, which isn't particularly hard.

>>28513554 (OP)
Define high mileage.
The only Tesla documented to hit 1M miles had to go through like 3 battery replacements and 13 electric motor replacements.

>>28513554 (OP)
It will be nice if that becomes the norm.
I can tell you about my ICEs that made it to very old age with just maintenance, but I also know how to pick them.
Normies deserve long lasting vehicles too.

>>28513937
>the prices will continue to fall as economies of scale increase year by year.
The prices of batteries won't go down because they don't replacement batteries at scale and they phase out models by the time the battery has to be replaced. Most insurances will immediately total out your tesla if it's in any kind of accident and needs a new battery.

>>28514339
>just throw your car away ever 10 years

>>28514066
>>28514339
>>28518020
I recently made a trip with a friend in his model 3 from cali to oregon (14 hours). We had to stop to charge about every 3 hours, and that was perfect to me since i'd get out and stretch my legs and we'd get coffee, and then we'd switch seats. Honestly maybe we're just car weak but having to sit in one seat for 3 hours with no breaks seems awful to me and i'm glad to stop. If i was in a gas car 2-3 hours is the max i'd do without stopping for a break too.

>>28518145
That sounds like a cool trip with a nice car. How was highway noise/shake? With EVs people seem to get really upset if you can't drive 500km on a single charge in one go. Because we all know that's the average driving distance and totally what they pull daily on their fuel thirsty shitboxes.

>>28518308
>With EVs people seem to get really upset if you can't drive 500km on a single charge in one go.
my dodge challenger can do that, why not a tesloid?

oh right because teslas are shit

>>28518006
Most insurers will immediately total out a tesla because giganigga cast parts cost something like 15% of new-buy value (w/o labor), and Elon demanded that new assemblies be given priority over spare inventory, so it takes several months until you receive it.

My 2014 smart fortwo EV has 170k miles on it and still gets about 90% charge of the high voltage battery, havent changed anything but the filter for humidity in the battery and coolant, plus the 12v battery

I like EVs

>>28518308
He has a newer model 3, ride seemed totally fine and noise wasn't an issue. The biggest issue was actually the self driving mode. We drove with it on for most of the time, but when i was behind the wheel, i start to doze off/fall asleep because the car was doing all the work for me, which resulted in beep alerts. At sone points i basically had to disable the self driving and turn myself to prevent falling asleep.

>>28518310
How often do you take drives like that? How often do the majority of consumers?

>>28518707
The way self-driving is implemented today is the absolute worst of both worlds.

>>28518746
For proper self driving 50% of the car has to be a computer
It's too resource intensive and it requires near 0 latency so a rempte server is out of the question

>>28513937
Majority of Americans can't afford a 1k emergency and live pay check to pay check.
>>a small lump sum of 13k immediately or else we are keeping ur car goyim hehe.

That's the issue. Even if an ice costs more, if you were smart and bought a reasonable car, you're probably not going to be blindsided by a random ruinous bill.
>>inb4 stop being poor
:( I'm try

>>28513554 (OP)
mileage still matters because mileage means rust.
engines already outlast the body in most cases in bongland

>>28519026
Mileage means rust and not age?

>>28519827
same thing

>>28513726
>l2 change ur oil
This is the only reason why I would ever consider buying a new car. The biggest problem I have with my shitboxes is who knows what the fuck did the previous retards do with them and sometimes it's hard to unfuck because you don't know what the cause is.

>>28515840

>>28519835
Not really. Age and damages rust your car, not mileage.

>>28513554 (OP)
They still lose an insane amount of value when you want to sell a high mileage EV. Whether or not this new shill that batteries don't degrade is true, which it is a shill because my phone dies every 1-2 years, there is still a bad resale market. I have done the math, on average here are the depreciation rates:

>gas car: $2k per year if driven 10k miles a year
>hybrid car: $4-5k a year if driven 10k/yr
>EV: $8-12k a year if driven 10k/yr

EVs are a fucking disaster for the working class, they have never worked for anyone who has to watch their budget. Do not make the mistake of even getting a hybrid, you never save the extra money you spent on it. You in fact lose more than you could ever save on gas and the batteries DO shit out. My Prius started losing charge at 80k and mpg was dropping significantly by 120k. Toyota refused to test it for defects because the warranty isn't even real, you have to pay to have the battery serviced every 20k miles or the warranty is invalid. Read the fine print, these corporations rip us off every way they can and EV/hybrids are just the new way to do it.

>>28513554 (OP)
lol
and lmao
also sage

>>28520263
But that doesn't really apply to electric cars, since you have to go to the dealership for regular service anyway. So your warranties remain valid simply because it's the dealer who did every one of the checkups listed in your maintenance intervals.

>>28520335
>ancient car is ancient

>>28520338
>noooo you can't just examine the claims of these faggots by looking at cars that have actually been used for years, you must only do longevity testing on 2025 model year cars. also i'm a literal faggot ev driver and take it up the ass
ok anon, good point

>>28520335
>Some early Tesla Model S EVs were known to have issues with their rear motors. This particular Tesla suffered from this. The rear motor was replaced thirteen times, so if we include the original that it came with, that's fourteen motors over the course of 1.2 million miles.

>Most of the replacement motors were actually refurbished units and the problem there is that Tesla didn't know the real issue so it didn't know how to properly fix the motors. Some of these replacement motors failed very quickly. Some were covered under warranty, while others were not.

>In regards to the vehicle's battery pack, it fared better than the motor. However, this Model S is currently on its fourth battery pack. Four batteries at 1.2 million miles mean that the average pack lasted some 300,000 and counting, which is actually a strong showing in our opinion.

>>28520369
>i know all the ones with high miles are proven shit, but they're really good now for some reason i can't explain. gotta go, my boyfriend Karl is here for gay sex
ok

>>28520389
how many motors do you read about being replaced these days? synchronous motors have been used in heavy industry for decades. properly designed they will run 24/7 at maximum rated power output until the bearings fail at 500,000 hours or whatever.

>>28520416
>how many motors do you read about being replaced these days
no idea, i don't follow LGBTQ issues.
i do know i will never drive a globohomo controlled faggot mobile mobile explosive device with a $40,000 ticking timebomb battery replacement every few years.

>>28520434
yeah just keep driving that ICE cuckmobile that is entirely dependent on a petrochemical supply chain and the availability of fragile wear parts inside of the engine and transmission assemblies.

>>28520438
and you keep driving that ev faggotmobile that's entirely dependent on an internet connection to tesla's servers.

>>28520416
the motors in the industry live cradled into cotton compared to all the dirt, salt, water and vibrations that a car has to live through

>>28520438
All of the electricity generated for EV charging comes from gas and coal.

>>28520484
Buy a BMW i3 and you won't have to worry about it phoning home, because BMW has deactivated the 3G network.

EV batteries have a finite number of cycles, they have a life, I would imagine the battery on a high milage EV would be similar to something like a really old phone which only holds like 50% of the charge it used to

>>28517983
wholesome post

>>28519929
>>28519827
mileage means salt exposure.
age might mean its sat in a garage for 10 years.

>>28517983
nah not really, they deserve to burn in hell for their insect brained unsafe driving, i love seeing normies crash i fucking masturbate to videos of normies crashing, i climax when i read posts of normids being ripped off and over paying, its literally life fuel to me knowing that they are struggling with something.

>>28520665
nah, i'll just buy an actual car instead of your nucar vibrating dildo

>>28520679
But that's not the case. A Tesla Model S charged daily for 10 years has held its charge way better than a smartphone under similar stress. I have friends with two year old iPhones at 80% battery health. The EV equivalent would be 200k miles on the meter, which is a usual lifetime usage of a car. The batteries aren't equivalent.

>>28520263
If you can find a used EV with decent range and to keep it atleast 5 years, then it's worth it. That's 5 years of not needing any gas or service. And you also get the added comfort of using an EV.

>>28520263
If you're selling 200K mileage EV, then its way old.

200K mileage EV is 20 years of 10K/y driving. Thats old. If you're selling 200K mileage Taxi fleet car, thats only "2 years old", thats old as well due to extreme usage.

>>28520679
Lifecycle depends on environmental conditions, chemistry and charging cycle.

Typical Tesla lithium ions have ~1000 life cycle before it hits 70%. With ~300 miles, thats 300 miles x 1000 for 300,000 miles. Thats for 100-0 discharge. But realistically people dont do 100-0 everyday, they do maybe 80-50 for 90% of drive and maybe 100-10 for long distance drives 10% of the time. So its probably 500K+ mileage battery at this point. But then there's environmental conditions, half the time the car runs in bad temp, which degrades battery health. So then you take out any gains from the normal 80-50 usage due to bad temp and you get ~300k mileage. Unless you heat up in your garage during winter. Then you'd get easily maintained 500k+ miles car

>>28514058
I’m managing a fleet of almost 100 vans for a mobile equipment mechanic service, and we don’t expect any repairs to a 6.0 Vortec before 250,000 miles. We just did the first water pump and timing service on one with 380,000 miles. There’s a reason why GM has been able to get away with not changing these things for over 20 years. We replace more HVAC controllers than we do anything engine related.

>>28514049
Yeah but my gas car goes the exact same mileage as the 200k miles before it