Thread 28548795

Why don't we see similar price declines today?

>>28548795 (OP)
Cool it with the antisemitic remarks.

>>28548795 (OP)
The legal case of Ford vs. Dodge Brothers, which established the precedent in US law that the objective of a business is maximizing shareholder value.
When Dodge brothers started making cars after the court case, their logo was a star of David. I'm sure it's merely a cohencidence

1. abandonment of the gold standard
2. general purpose manufacturing robots still don't exist, so factory workers' wages are still the main driving factor for car (and car component) prices

>>28548815
>1. abandonment of the gold standard
No, this definitely isn't the answer.

>>28548811
it wasn't a coincidence at all
they make it their logo purely to fuck with Henry Ford
they weren't even kikes, just trolls

>>28548975
>the pure chutzpah of these goys makes me want to kvetch

>>28548795 (OP)
because the economies of scale have already been sorted out. the Model T cost $800 because the early run was entirely hand made.

>>28548811
that's not what the case was about

>>28549085
However it is that case's most enduring legacy. Making quality products, or delivering good value are both illegal now, thanks to that case. The government has spoken: line goes up at all costs.

>>28549285
they very much are not illegal. All that can be done is business owners have the right to remove a CEO who deliberately and intentionally mishandles their property.

you need to stop getting all of your knowledge of business law from /pol/

>>28549085
>Shareholder primacy was first articulated in the decision of Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. in 1919. In the Michigan Supreme Court's opinion, it stated that "There should be no confusion... A business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders."

So they sold the exact same model for 14 years and it declined in price. What's crazy about that?

>>28548815
>factory workers' wages
Then with ~70-90% of labor exported to the 3rd world and/or already automated why are vehicles (like literally everything else) more expensive than ever, and don't say backup cameras and tpms sensors like those haven't been commoditized down to pennies per unit at wholesale

>>28549647
Overhead from a bloated society with bloated social costs. A vast swathe of the middle tier employees being overpaid and underworked. Work-from-home medical paper biller pushers making high 5 figures. Mostly do-nothing standalone desk jobs paying in the 6s for not much more than 10 actual hours of week's work. Welfare and welfares and social securities and other shit. A small company's office staff eating up more than 60% the payroll cost, essentially spending most of their time playing games with numbers and doing fuckall of value. A manager for the manager's manager all of which collectively do the work of one person.

>>28548915
jewish

>>28548795 (OP)
As>>28548811
Said. Ford vs dodge brothers made it so that any publicly traded company must only exist to make money for investors

>>28548795 (OP)
Because the only thing that matters is shareholders. That's why cars keep getting worst and more expensive. And all the brands are colluding to keep prices high or forcing government to tariff if competition like BYD happens

>>28548811
Second post best post.

>>28548815
>>28549815
90% of gold is used for jewelry, coins, and bullion. It might be as valuable as people think.
Take a look at how much value diamonds have lost.

>>28549925
>It might be as valuable as people think.
Correct.
>Take a look at how much value diamonds have lost.
Diamonds are falling because fake diamonds are advanced enough that they're indistinguishable from "real" diamonds. When it becomes feasible to mass produce gold in a laboratory, the value of gold will also go down.

>>28548815
>Muh gold standard
Pseud comment. Opinion discarded.

>>28549502
>moron doesn't know the difference between civil court and criminal court
let's play a game. tell me, precisely how many CEOs have been arrested because they returned a red quarter?

>>28550027
So because you were proven wrong about the corporate fiscal responsibilities of the ceo and the board of directors, you're moving the goalposts to criminal charges?
I will accept your admission of defeat.

>>28550086
>it's illegal to not have exponential growth
>w-well nobody has ever been punished for it, but it's definitely the precedent!
The only thing you'll accept is the L I just gave you for exposing you as an ESL that doesn't know how the American legal system works.

>>28549981
Actually, fake diamonds can often be rold apart from real diamonds because they're too perfect. The "substitutes" are now consistently better than the real thing in every aspect but a select number of delusional richfags' approval

>>28548811
>reddit take again
this happened in one particular state court and there was a context to the case where ford was making a lot of bullshit claims

>>28548795 (OP)
Unions, minimum wage and taxes

>>28549981
gold is an element, diamonds are a type of crystal. You can't just recreate an element, you'd have to physically break apart atoms and reassemble them manually. Maybe in a hundred years we'll be able to make a few atoms of gold at the cost of several million dollars in the Haldron Collider, but nothing like how we can make diamonds.

>>28550089
You'd have a point if Ford wasn't the majority shareholder and thus the sole legal owner of the company. I'd agree than a publicly traded company should operate in the interests of the majority of its shareholders, but it was literally forbidden from doing that in favor of the minority that wanted greater dividends. It's not an explicit law, but it made any other activity EVEN BY THE LEGITIMATE OWNER de facto illegal through legal precedent

>>28550108
the issue was the Dodge Brothers also were heavily invested in Ford. and he deliberately tried to tank the stock value (not trying to make the company perform better with the side-effect of reducing stock value, but literally going out and shorting the company for no reason other than to lower the stock value) to specifically screw over the Dodge Brothers, because they had been using their partial ownership of Ford to fund their own car company.

the ruling was an antitrust ruling. it was saying Ford couldn't use his infinite money to destroy his competition financially.

>it's ILLEGAL
again, you don't know the difference between civil and criminal court. it was a civil case. the Dodge Brothers were suing for damages. No different than Judge Judy ordering one of her defendants to pay the plaintiff $5 for pain and suffering.

>>28549502
>A business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders.
How else would it even be set up? Who is going to put up the money for a factory that isn't going to bring them profit?

>>28550089
You argue in bad faith because you jump to extremes. Board members and CEOs get punished all the time for failing to maximize shareholder value - they lose their jobs. Corporate law isn't like criminal law, you're not arresting a CEO for not maximizing profits. But you could sue them for breach of fiduciary duty, citing corporate law. It'd be a difficult case to prove, sure, because the CEO can just claim they were doing their best and unless there's something else like fraud or malfeasance that was going on it'll be hard to get a conviction.
I don't understand what you gain with the position you've taken in this argument. Other than arguing for the sake of arguing.

>>28548795 (OP)
because we don't have similar breakthroughs in manufacturing.
Also jews.

>>28550123
You could run the business for the benefit of the business. Reinvest profits to expand production, improve product quality, research new products, etc. Without having to take profits out of the business to pay back corporate gamblers ("I'll invest money in your business because I'm gambling that line go up")

>>28550130
no, YOU are arguing in bad faith. you went from "it's illegal" to "well sometimes CEOs get fired for it (but not always)".
again, you do not know the difference between civil and criminal courts.

>what do you gain from doing this? pls stop challenging me...
promoting truth, rather than a politically-motivated lie. I am sick of ignorant fucks perpetuating lies to suit their own political ideologies. Companies are not required by law to always increase shareholder value irrespective of market reality, end of.

>>28550136
that's literally how it already is.
>corporate gamblers
*business owners

>>28548795 (OP)
14 year run with little to no competition, yea, that will do it.

current day, lots of makes and models and less than 5 year run cycles, before refresh or redesign which requires retooling etc. if there was little competition and they could just keep pumping out the same car over and over, prices would go down too.

>>28550141
I mean, it IS illegal. Difficult or basically impossible to enforce, but it is still illegal under corporate law. Not in every state, but it is the law in Delaware, where the majority of businesses are incorporated.
>I'm just a wholesome truth promoter
Uh-huh. With how much you're invested in this topic it feels much less like an organic typical chan-autist and more like a corpo employee doing damage control. But why on here of all places?

>>28548811
The star of David thing was a legitimate coincidence. It's two crossed Deltas to represent the two brothers. The star of David only became a full-on zionist kike symbol post WW1.

>>28550266
>illegal
civil courts are not criminal courts. you don't know how the American legal system works.
>you're just a corpo shill
and there it is. you have ran out of arguments and can only sling insults to try and shift the discussion.

>>28550136
>Without having to take profits out of the business to pay back corporate gamblers
yeah except in the Dodge Brother's case Ford gave them their stock in exchange for parts they made for his cars. Ford was trying to jew them unironcially.

>>28548795 (OP)
>Why don't we see similar price declines today?

>>28550101
Just to be pedantic, very small amounts of gold have already been made via elemental transmutation using particle accelerators; that has been a thing for decades now - radioactive isotopes of gold were first made from mercury back in 1941, and stable gold from bismuth in 1980. But as you said, it is vasty more expensive than digging gold out of the ground, and not comparable to making synthetic diamonds.

You can buy a new chinese side by side at a hardware store that rapes and gapes that thing in every possible way for about the same price

>>28550413
wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1rlyl8VZFM

>>28548795 (OP)
Hand built vs mass manufacturing is already in place. If you bought a completely hand built Mustang, you'd be paying a lot more than you are right now.

>>28548804
Cool it with the anti semetic remarks

Copy Henry Fords factory manuals, but not his political beliefs

>>28548811
>dodge brothers were le kikes
my god where do you faggots actually get this shit? their logo was an unironic coincidence and neither of them were jews to begin with

>>28550559
>just a coincidence, goy!

>>28548795 (OP)
A Tesla plaid is $40,000 cheaper than it was 10(?) years ago, idiot.

>>28548795 (OP)
Cars are cheaper in China because the parts for them are made in China. No other automotive brand makes parts in the same nation as the VIN anymore.

What did they mean by this?

>>28550596
>A used car is cheaper.
Wow
o
w

>>28550601
it was a cry for help and a symbol of their attempt to destroy Ford's jewish monopoly over the automotive industry

>>28550605
It's not a monopoly if there are multiple automotive brands that choose to make an automobile the luxury choice over a horse carriage instead of the future of personnel transportation

>>28550605
This. Ford was a communist that gave more money to the lazy workers instead of the starving investors

>>28550603
Not only that the real inflation is much larger than the “official” one. If a mcdonalds lunch goes from 5 dollars to 15 in three years you cant just say the inflation was 20% because muh petrodollar or whatever the fuck

>>28550618
Corporate greed doesn't shrink the portion size from my local restaurants.

>>28549811
Which is why companies keep posting record profits and the wealth gap between the top 1% and the rest keeps getting wider and wider even as they do mass firings one after the other. It's clearly those middle tier workers leeching off the poor poor billionaires and their poor poor megacorporations.

>>28550596
The Tesla Plaid didn't exist 10 years ago

>>28549811
We need to sustain the jewish daycare system, because if white women arent given 6 figure salaries they will start making babies
Tanking the economy for a measly century is a small price for this

>>28548795 (OP)
production costs saved = more for investor portfolios

>>28549848
>BYD
>Chinese
>competition
Well there is one thing I can thank them for keeping that Chinese trash out and you simping for them makes you a faggot.
>Muh Elon
Don't like electric cars either but I don't want unsafe Chinese trash filling up my roads either and more electrics randomly exploding tenfold from Chinese QC.

>>28550413
Imagine shilling for Chinese garbage.

>>28548795 (OP)
You do, just think of anything that went through a similar improvement in production tech and economies of scale. I'm reading this on a screen that would have cost much more 14 years ago.

>>28548795 (OP)
we could reduce prices by a substantial amount if automakers had the balls to ship car in one singular trim level with one singular color. Well tesla kinda did it but oh well, not anymore.

>>28550098
>>28549811
We have kikes among us.

>>28548795 (OP)
why didn't car design just remain as carriages? Imagine how peaceful the world would be if the standards for cars never changed from open carriages, highways never developed beyond cobblestone/dirt trails and the national speed limit was always just 30mph and it was never thought to increase it. Car engines, suspension and tyres were never refined and were always finnicky rather than streamlined in their use and required constant repair due to metallurgy never advancing. Why the perpetual drive for perfection? What if we never had the outlook to constantly iterate and just stayed in a cultural and technological stasis since 1900

>>28550743
>>28550746
>free market is bad

>>28550423
Is that supposed to be impressive lol

>>28550746
Buy an original jap Yamaha one then, it’s a 1:1 clone anyway. 4500 miles of hell on mine with nothing more than wheel bearings and tires

>>28550621
>Corporate greed doesn't shrink the portion size from my local restaurants.
It absolutely does retard

>>28548795 (OP)
The original 15 yo 5k civic.

>>28550832
This. You know they have your mc burger down to an absolute weight.

>>28550804
I agree.

>>28550101
That's the point, retard. The value of gold will always go up.

>>28550804
If we didn't have a drive for perfection and an outlook to constantly innovate we still wouldn't have hit the standards of 1900. The Roman Empire wouldn't have existed. What humanity existed would probably be in small scattered hunter-gather villages, if we even survived that long and didn't just get out competed by some other species and go extinct.

>>28550605
>Henry Ford
>Jewish
He was about as anti-jew as you could get

>>28550369
You started the insults first.

>>28550825
It does everything the piece of crap you posted while keeping you clean of dirt and dry in the rain
looks like it's still the superior product

short answer
jews
long answer
because of the jews

>>28550982
Most model T's didn't even come with a roof lol
This bottom of the barrel modern chinkshit buggy does, and can be fully enclosed with some amazon kit for like $200, and has double the horsepower with 1/3rd the engine size, has electric start, headlights, 4wd, locking differentials, dump bed, double the fuel economy, and is much more reliable. For the same amount of money you get a better product in every way

How do grumpy old men even know how to post here?

I thought you’d chuck the pc your son bought in the garage and say the tv has everything
I thought you wouldn’t be able to use your web browser on your phone becauae you couldnt find it amongst the 50 malware apps that came with your 50 dollar samsung
I thought you’d just get distracted by the “I am 18, here is my pussy” ads on the side and have your banking info stolen

And yet 90% of the posts on /o/ read like geumpy old bitter fucks who just complain all day and shit in their pants

300 mile range EVs have gone from 100k to 25k in less than a decade.

>>28549846
The case was about if Ford was allowed to starve out minority shareholders by not paying a dividend.

>>28549811
Not sure if kike, AI, or kike using AI. Either way fucking retard.

>>28550630
Small business employs four times more people than the entire fortune 500.
>>28550633
This guy knows
>>28550773
>>28551024
Retards.

>>28550862
He said local restaurants. ie there’s a bar near me that on weekdays for lunch you can get a real burger and side for $7. Even after the tip that’s cheaper than a combo at a fast food place.

>We're the Dodge Brothers, and motocars are our game
>We're not like the others who get all the fame
>If your Ford is burnin' oil, you can call us on the double
>Our cars are faster than the others, you'll be hooked on the brothers, UH!
>Yo, you're in for a treat, so hang on to your seat
>Get ready for scatpacks and remarkable speeds
>You'll meet Vipers, the Chargers, the Chally Wally, and the others
>Handlin' our Challengers, you'll be hooked on the brothers!
>TO THE BRIDGE

>>28551434
ok but use their actual logo and not the one walter chrysler thought was super cool 12 years after they died

>>28550832
>muh corporate greed
Retard statist msnbc watcher talking point. If you think printing money with reckless abandon for decades then shutting the economy down and printing more for "stimulus" for a flu-tier virus didn't create unchecked inflation and it's all just corporations jacking up their prices for no reason other than to fuck you, you should go live somewhere more suited to your intellect, like the tent cities in LA.

>>28551593
The primary driver of inflation is always private credit, not government spending. Government MUST exist because it is the source from which the private sector acquires the currency they ultimately pay their tax liabilities with.

>>28551605
>the government must print infinite money forever how else will my favorite widget corporation import more temu junk for me to buy?!
I underestimated you. Maybe haiti, not the streets of LA. That's a little more your speed.

>>28551593
>>28551615
>goes straight to an unrelated "printing infinite money" strawman
Nta you're talking to, but goddamn you should shut your fucking mouth.

>>28551620
ok haitian

>>28551439
The double delta logo was the actual logo branded on their cars.
>t. worked on plenty of them

>>28551620
>strawman
*official policy of every national bank

>>28548795 (OP)
>the ever popular "wrenchcels matter" myth
Mass production just facilitated it.
Fords real talent was as a marketer, with the ability to create demand that allowed him to sell at those kind of margins - just like Jobs and Gates and Musk and ever other consoomer tycoon America has ever produced. He pulled a bunch of high profile stunts and made the correct decision to hire Norval Hawkins.

>>28552329
>No dude you dont get it, you just think you want a horseless carriage, you were tricked by the marketing!
What is even your post

>>28552332
Not him but you're a fucking retard. Ford was far from the only car manufacturer so horses aren't even a subject. He meant that Fords were famous and in demand, more than any of the other cars at the time. Pretty sure you're autistic and I wish we started testing grade schoolers for autism to euthanize them.

>>28552443
They were in demand because they were much cheaper, mostly due to the innovations in manufacturing. Nobody was buying Buick Model 10 or whatever the fuck other companies made because outside of the ultra rich nobody was going to buy a more expensive but identical car that costs a lot more just because they are handmade or whatever

>>28552446
Realistically how could you increase it's speed around a track? Would you even be able to fit wider wheels and tires?

>>28552453
Tires are always going to be your limit.
Lower and more power would be a start.

>>28550630
When have you ever seen Jack MeHoff's private 30 people business with 10 million gross, 4 million net post their profit records?
How about if that company has merely 11 actual boots on the ground, hands dirty laborers?
Where's that fucking money going? Certainly not to the men doing the actual work getting shit on to keep that labor expense as close to 10% of revenue as possible. Meanwhile the on sote working office has filled up with 10 people doing the work of 4 eating double that in pay.

Motherfucker the company I work for is a prime example of this kind of bullshit. My own direct manager plainly said to me when I was inquiring about a position this is the laziest, easiest, most do nothing job he's ever had. That's just one guy I can tell you about a half dozen others up above me.

The country is full of fucking leeches in the middle jobs. Accept it, it's real. We got a guy getting payed near 6 figure to handle sporadic out of state work contracts we barely get 6 of per year. The fuck, the FUCK does he do all day? It isn't fooling anybody.
Get your head out of your ass.

>>28552478
>Motherfucker the company I work for is a prime example of this kind of bullshit. My own direct manager plainly said to me when I was inquiring about a position this is the laziest, easiest, most do nothing job he's ever had. That's just one guy I can tell you about a half dozen others up above me. The country is full of fucking leeches in the middle jobs. Accept it, it's real. We got a guy getting payed near 6 figure to handle sporadic out of state work contracts we barely get 6 of per year. The fuck, the FUCK does he do all day? It isn't fooling anybody.
These guys are paid to ensure discipline and to relay the shareholders' orders. They're glorified surveillance jannies, or are here to optimize profits regarding various legislation.
>Get your head out of your ass.
You managed to shit out a whole paragraph about companies without mentioning once shareholders. I'm not that anon but you're sounding a bit disingenuous.

>>28552481
there's more private companies than publicly traded companies
the owner boss is the shareholders

>>28552484
Not necessarily. I work for a privately-owner company, only the shareholders are a family holding that owns several huge companies and appoints CEOs that aren't related to them to keep churning the best profit rates.

>>28552540
You arw the dumbest motherfucker to think this act is fooling anyone. Consider seppuku

>>28552641
>mention having a job
>instantly the NEET faggot enters meltdown status
Okay faggot. You should also consider sudoku and the relief it'd provide your family.

>>28550771
>we could reduce prices by a substantial amount if automakers had the balls to ship car in one singular trim level with one singular color
good suggestion

>>28551620
He's right though

>>28552464
I always wondered why duallies weren't tried, in order to get more grip. I mean, the tires themselves are so limited due to the materials and manufacturing

>>28548795 (OP)
They had to make it cheap to compete with horses and wagons. We don't have any competing methods of travel now. There's no real competition, so regardless of how cheaply it can be made they'll upchsrge it.

>>28551013
It was because dodge brothers were using the money from Ford to make their own company, which ford didn't like and started giving employee benifits out like candy specifically to kill his stock.

>>28548795 (OP)
>Why don't we see similar price declines today?
retards today are given $50k lines of auto credit like candy.

>>28548815
UAW claims that <10% of vehicle cost is attributed to labor.

>>28553096
To be honest he kinda was right to do so. What kind of faggot leeches off from you to fund his competing venture?

>>28553160
What kind of leech goes public instead of saying private?

>>28553177
True. He was a fool to do so

>>28549846
the law established that shareholders could sue the company if the company isn't on its knees for them sucking 24/7, not that a company inherently had to exist to make money for shareholders. this of course paved the first steps for the existence of the trillion dollar jewish asset manager "shareholders" that own everything today.

>>28548795 (OP)
>Why don't we see similar price declines today?
thats not sayuuufff!!! it needs 46 airbags, and 8 backup cameras, and lane departure warnings, and blind spot monitoring, and...

>>28549647
It's a tale as old as time, anon. As people get more wealthy from developing industry at home, they want more luxuries. As they want more luxuries, foreign markets provide them at cheaper cost. This goes on until there is no industry and people are once again impoverished while the foreign markets are made better for it. This cycle goes on forever: all you can hope to do is be born in the right place at the right time or move somewhere where industry is growing.

>>28548795 (OP)
Because profits.

All things drop in price after they catch on and become common. LCD Tvs used to cost like $3000. Desktop computers were thousands too.

>>28553703
That’s literally the other way around

LCD TVs used to cost 3000 because everyone wanted one, but few companies could make rhem
They are cheap today because of advancement in manufacturing, you can just buy gigantic panels from chinese factories for pennies. So the same thing and the Model T

>>28550616
you joke but mutts actually think like this

>>28548795 (OP)
Companies want to make more money and people that gives out loans love the extra business they are getting. 8K accent for example could be bought cash for even regular people. Make it 20k+ and they need a loan now and pay interests, plus the car company needs more money. The customer is a resource to be bled dry by rich companies and nothing more