Thread 28554076

>Car gets a bit hot a few times
>Fan keeps scraping on the fan shroud
>I can't fix it, the shop can't fix it, nobody can make it line up properly
>Previous owner hit something once and I guess it was just enough to mess with the radiator alignment
>Say fuck it
>New aluminium radiator from amazon
>16 inch electric fan
>Wire it all up
>Not enough cooling at idle
>Radiator pukes coolant into the transmission
>800 dollars later the transmission is flushed and I have a replacement amazon radiator
>Buy aluminum fan shroud that barely fits
>Somehow get it anchored in place
>Stays cool at idle now
>Not enough cooling for climbing hills
>233 degree coolant temp after a minor amount of driving uphill

Fuck it. I'm going to put the engine fan back, mount this fan shroud in here, somehow, and make it line up even if I have to use a thousand zipties. I'm done. The boomers were right. You'd have to be a retard to swap an engine fan for an electric one.
It's me. I'm retard. Don't be me. I'm a thousand dollars deep into this.

>>28554076 (OP)
By the way I had a stupid short air intake that I was using for testing because it was on the car when I bought it and I assumed it was part of my issue because it was sucking hot air from directly behind the radiator and surely that would make it run hotter, but no, I put the factory air box on with the cold air snorkel and it did absolutely nothing to the coolant temperature.

>all that text
>doesn't say what car he has
In any case, you might want to make sure the impeller on the water pump isn't fucked because under normal usage you can get away with no fan.

>>28554086
It's me once again, 1990 crown victoria anon, and I really don't want to disassemble the entire front of the engine to get to the water pump

>>28554076 (OP)
I'd say you got much bigger issues. Are you sure your thermostat is opening up? Even if it's super fucking hot out your rad has enough air moving over it when you're moving to keep the engine well below 233. The only time you would get close to that might be after climbing a huge hill then idling at the bottom for some reason. Fan clutches don't even really kick on at idle unless they're manually controlled in my experience so technically an electric fan is still an upgrade.

Are you sure it isn't just a sticky thermostat?

>>28554197
>manual fan clutch
wow didn't even know this was a thing, looks like it's for big rigs etc.
do aftermarket electric fans now flow a decent amount of air? only ones i really know about are from 20 or so years ago when electric fans struggled to keep up with viscous clutch fans, and couldn't even hold a candle to hydraulic fans

>>28554197
I know the thermostat is opening because the factory temperature gauge will climb while the radiator hose temperature gauge barely climbs, and then it will reach a Tipping Point where suddenly the radiator hose gauge shoots up to about 200 over the span of maybe 30 seconds.
Someone has told me that it's probably the water pump, but even the factory radiator and clutch fan did a better job than this aluminum radiator and the electric fans.

>>28554076 (OP)
Clutch fans are goated, I run them on my turbo cars and they stay cool even with nonstop hotlapping at the track.
Too bad they cost like $500 to replace when the bearing shits the bed....

>>28554197
>>28554086
They're right

have you checked your fan is spinning the right way? Some are pullers and some are pushers, too. And that's not even just rotation, the blades have different profiles

>>28554197
They flow PLENTY at idle, but if you're getting it extra hot you can always hold the pedal down to idle at 3k

>>28554223
By the way this aluminum shroud with two 12 inch fans is the 'upgrade' to the single 16 inch fan (pic related) with no shroud because that one wasn't enough, I guess it looks like these ones aren't enough either. Sure am glad I did all that wiring!
Maaaaaybe I will put the clutch fan back and put the 16 inch fan on the condenser instead to pull air in from the very front, but then I'm going to lose double horsepower from running a clutch fan and also the alternator having to run an electric fan at the same time.
That, and, I have two little electric fans on the condenser on my van and they don't do squat.

It probably is the water pump. I'm going to be kicking myself in the future because I didn't replace the water pump. But I really don't want to.

>>28554232
I mean you can feel them blowing at your hand when they're running i guess

>>28554230
I don't know how I'm going to do it but I'm going to make that shroud finally line up with that clutch fan and then I'm going right back to that road I've been testing on and seeing how hot it gets.
And I'm going to do it during the day with the AC running too.

>>28554230
damn, what fan clutches are you getting that are 500 bucks?

>>28554239
You mentioned the PO hit something. Is the bottom "lip" under the radiator still there? Ford loved using bottom feeder airflow.

>>28554249
Wtf I just casually punched it into google and the first result is an aftermarket replacement on ebay for $150
I swear I spent hours searching for one a few months ago, including looking up different models which were not quite the same but would fit, and all I could get was OEM ones for $500 and maybe one aftermarket for like $350.

>>28554076 (OP)
>amazon
that was your first mistake
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1990,ltd+crown+victoria,5.8l+351cid+v8,1438414,cooling+system

>>28554270
You might be thinking of the round aero panthers, mine is a box like the 80s ones

>>28554284
Oh that's fucking great NOW rockauto has aluminum radiators for the car after I went ahead and got my ass fucked by scamazon because they didn't have anything but plastic ones when I tried to order one earlier in the year!!!

I've put the chinkiest of chinky lowest cost ebay radiators into a E30 and it's still running fine in Australian heat.

Do you not know about the trick to see if your clutch fan is working? Let the car idle and once up to operating temp, insert a piece of rolled up newspaper into the path of the fan. If the fan stops, your clutch fan is fucked. If the fan spits the newspaper back at you, it is working.

If you're still getting issues, it's thermostat and water pump to be replaced. After that, your engine is pressurizing the coolant during combustion. After that, burn the car for insurance.

>>28554319
U get the "worley auto parts" too bra?
They look chinky as fuck but I can't complain about the functionality - was like nearly twice the thickness of my stock one too.

>>28554273
oof. if it's for a toyota you can get the aisin ones off rockauto. hayden and gmb are also pretty decent. i bought a fvp one for my chrysler and it was a gmb unit lel

>>28554321

I have no idea what you just said. I get most of my parts off ebay by searching original part numbers. The majority of it is reproduction out of China.

You need a parts diagram website for your car so you can search via parts numbers.

>>28554321
fuck i've seen those worley units. good to know there's another option
>>28554325
he's talking about those Worley branded aftermarket radiators that show up on ebay. looks very chinky, but from what that anon is saying, as well as some forums i've seen, their xustomer service is shit when you get the wrong adapters/fittings installed, but otherwise the radiators themselves seem to be better built than oem ones

>>28554331

>is saying, as well as some forums i've seen, their xustomer service is shit when you get the wrong adapters/fittings installed

You just get a return via Ebay/PayPal, wrong item supplied. Item doesn't fit my car, etc etc.

>>28554090
>overheating when moving but only on higher load application
Your water pump is shot.

>>28554076 (OP)
>He hasn't taken the mark viii e fan pill

You lose op

>>28554090
Also what exact engine is it. If its the 302 cid windsor, water pump is piss easy getting the accessory pulley off is the "most difficult" part of that job. It's all right there at the front, not much to disassemble or move out of the way really.

It is true, swapping directly from an engine driven fan to electric without much other work can be a recipe for disappointment. I've done it successfully though, and it is worth it in the end. It just requires more work than most people want to put into their old shitbox.
>prior preparation prevents piss poor performance

>>28554076 (OP)
You need to pin down what exactly your issue is. You mentioned you think the tstat isn't the issue and your logic is sound. Puking coolant tells me it isn't the sensor (mine reads at least 30 degrees hotter than it actually is.) Others have good points about pusher vs. puller fans, I suspect your 'upgrade' fan might still not be doing enough. Try taking the fan off entirely and driving highway. If temps look better you probably have a pusher creating a pocket of high pressure that's basically just a bubble of hot stagnant air on the highway. Flip a wire and make it a puller and try that (DC is great.)
I wound up dropping almost $300 on a brand name flexalite kit, but it had a good fitting shroud, came with it's own thermostatic switch , and pushed like 3700 CFM (chinkshit single fan I started with like you was 550 cfm. Most of the twin fans that look like your upgrade were around 800-1100. A lot of hassle but the mechanical fan wouldn't clear with my motor swap and big blocks are great for many things; staying cool isn't one.

>>28554239
Dodge does combo clutch fan + electric fan all the time, not unheard of

As other anons have mentioned, its the water pump.
The impeller blades are rusted out and no longer moving enough coolant.
Original shroud doesnt line up because the motor mounts are rotted and engine has dropped down.
>t. Ford mechanic

>>28554541
It's the 302, apparently to get the water pump off you gotta remove all of the front accessory bracketry and it's easy to snap the bolts off too

>>28554076 (OP)
>>Fan keeps scraping on the fan shroud
YOUR ENGINE MOUNTS, STOOPID
CHECK THEM

>>28554807
THIS ALL STARTED BECAUSE I GOT NEW ENGINE MOUNTS AND YES I DID GET A NEW TRANSMISSION MOUNT TOO

>>28554745
I tried to change an intake gasket and it turned into an engine build. thanks ford

>buy sub par chink shit
>act surprised when it has sub par chink shit performance

>>28554949
The bottom of the Shroud is held in with two of those zip tie looking things that go through the radiator, and yes, the top of the shroud is indeed held on with two little C clamps, it looks stupid but I can get my finger in between the fan and the Shroud at both the top and bottom now so this is how it has to be.
I'm going to see my therapist in 15 minutes so I'm going to do the right thing and take the highway there because I might as well learn right away that my shroud is inefficiently attached instead of finding out when I'm halfway to the tail of the Dragon.

OP, do the water pump. Better to suffer through that now than to cook the engine, blow a head gasket and warp the heads.

>>28554076 (OP)
Stop buying cheap e fans from china retard. They flow half what is advertised. Buy a Spal or something.

>>28554955
>>28555006
I guess I just had to learn that lesson the hard way

That exact engine I can state as a fact 35-37mph has enough airflow to keep it cool with a failing/failed pump or low coolant because a tbird I had, same thing. Overheating on power application but low load cruise was fine above some critical speed.
Also your fans dont fucking turn when the vehicle is above something like 20mph.

This entire thread is a joke.
It's your water pump. Get it done. It isn't that bad.

>>28555124
If it gets to 230 on that road again I'll replace the water pump

>>28554949
>THIS ALL STARTED BECAUSE I GOT NEW ENGINE MOUNTS AND YES I DID GET A NEW TRANSMISSION MOUNT TOO

Monica, did you get the proper Left and Right mounts and install them on the correct sides in the correct frame holes?

>knew anon with Buick, had to get new mounts, put in mounts, engine sat crooked, kept saying he had right mounts. Correct mount boxes, incorrect mounts in correct labeled boxes.

Ended up raising the engine to replace mounts, had two left mounts, only way to get wrong mount to fit was to install upside down. Just worked out so it lined up with engine mount brackets. Always verify new part matches old parts.

Also if the engine was swapped in from a different vehicle, the engine mount brackets and engine mounts may have been used from donor vehicle.

>>28554533
QRD? I have an '85 mercury and an electric fan is on the list of potential future upgrades but I want to do it right

>>28555135
>did you get the proper Left and Right mounts
It actually took an entire week to get the job done because the shop that was putting new mounts in kept getting two left mounts instead of a left and a right so after that whole debacle I can only hope they did it right in the end
>>28555147
Don't. Don't do it.

>>28555164
>Don't do it.
but you're the dumbass who bought the chink fan right?

>>28555147
Can be had for cheap and are a popular upgrade for off-road or high heat/hp applications cause they move a massive amount of cfm's. Just be sure to have an alternator than can put out enough amps to run it

>>28554533
Exactly what I did with my old shitbox z32, 3 row eBay aluminum rad and mk7 fan (might have been a taurus but it's all the same shit). Kept it cool climbing up a 10 mile 2% grade at 80 mph on my way to work even when it was 100-115 outside.

You posted that to try and autism trigger me didnt you.
Nig.

>>28555178
Yes it's me I'm dumbass do not be me do not be dumbass

Speaking of, I just drove that same winding road today with the air conditioning running and the highest it got was 221 at the very top when I got stuck at the red light for longer than I did the last two times.
Also climbed up a pretty good stretch of the highway at 70 in third gear and I think the highest it got during that was 212, so that'll work.
Maybe it does need a water pump but this one should be able to hang on for a little while longer. Hopefully. Probably.

Also, my alternator can handle the headlights now without dipping below 12v, even at idle!

A rad fan running past 40mph is more air resistance than the airflow it would make, so the ecu shouldn't be allowing the clutch to lock past like 30-35. Purpose of clutched mechanicals in the 80s/90s was specifically to turn them off to get better power and mpg.

So why has noone but me addressed how OP's premise from the first post was retardedly bad.

>>28554076 (OP)
Bruh, the Chinese fans suck.
They flow roughly half of what SPAL fan does.

OEM fans that work well.
Volvo 240 fan
Ford Taurus fan
98-02 Camaro/firebird fans
1998-2004 Corvette fans
2017+ ZL1 fans are brushless and absolutely retarded powerful.
You can controll them with a PWM switch as well.

>>28555260
>so the ecu shouldn't be allowing the clutch to lock past like 30-35.

Whos gonna tell the zoomie?

>>28555229
>got stuck at A SINGLE FUCKING REDLIGHT
>engine temp climbs
>eh, maybe its the water pump, oh well just gonna see how much longer it will last....

Youre a fucking dumbass and when you blow a head gasket youll deserve it.
Enjoy the bus, loser.

>>28555284
My point is that I did a bunch of hard driving and then immediately stopped, which is generally a bad thing for airflow! And, the highest it got to under those conditions, was 221.
And if it really is the water pump, shouldn't it be leaking coolant from the weep hole or something? The only thing it leaks is ATF from the power steering which I halfway fixed by replacing one of the lines but it looks like the other line needs done too.
>>28555282
Apparently mechanical fan clutches that are electronically activated are a thing, I don't really know how they work but I know they exist.

>>28555286
221F is pretty hot for a modern engine anon.
$80 junkyard LS1 fans keep my 5.3L 200F even on 95F days.
No loud clutch fan sucking up horsepower.

>>28555306
>for a modern engine
What about for a late 80s early 90s 302 though, which is what anon has
>>28554223
I have one of these aluminium fan shroud things too, I've thought about bolting it to one of the windows in my house as some sort of high-flow window fan, but I don't know how to operate them.
Surely it's not as easy as cutting the plug off of a 12v DC wall wart and plugging the fans into that, right?

>>28555365
Oh yeah, and couldn't he just take off the radiator cap and run the engine until the thermostat opens and look down inside the radiator at the piss streams to see how strong they are?

>>28555365
Gaskets start to cook past 245 and sustained 260 causes failures.

>>28555282
>zoomie
Uh huh well my bad for not giving a fuck about cheap ass ancient fan methods, everything I said is still true including OPs pump is obviously fucked and the whole thread is a joke.

>>28555286
>shouldn't it be leaking coolant from the weep hole or something?
Well... yes. Mine always do, when they're going dead.

>>28555286
The weep hole is for bearing failure, the impeller blades can still be corroded away with the bearing in good shape

>>28555412
Even with bright green coolant and (supposedly) less than 100k miles?

>>28555365
Even worse.
New engines like around 200F for power

Older engines can run 160-180F all day and be fine.

>>28555124
>It's your water pump.
It occurs to me that all that time the fan spent grinding itself against the shroud could have probably been what destroyed my water pump actually

>>28554291
Yeah this is entirely your fault. Only retards buy car parts off of amazon, unless it's incredibly minor shit.

>>28555497
I buy an aluminum radiator on Amazon because RockAuto doesn't have aluminum radiators for my car and now that I've endured all this expensive pain and suffering it turns out that RockAuto actually does have aluminum radiators for my car now. I just can't win on this bitch of an earth, can I?
>>28555365
>bolting it to one of the windows in my house as some sort of high-flow window fan
Dude that's genius I should try doing that with mine because I am not putting it back in this car, I don't care if all the wiring I did is worthless now I am a mechanical fan guy from this day forwards

>>28555497
When I go on rockauto and make a comprehensive suspension rebuild list, and they charge me $280 for shipping because it comes from 7 different warehouses, and I'm paying $24 shipping for $7 worth of clips and bolts, I source part numbers from amazon.

>>28555286
A functioning cooling system will see zero temp climb when coming to a stop.

The thermostat is to regulate the engines temperature to keep it from getting too cold. The radiator and thermostat should be in a constant battle- with the radiator cooling the system to the point the thermostat has to close to warm it back up. In reality it hits an equilibrium where the thermostat is neither fully open or fully closed.

You shit is fucked.
Fix it.

>>28555367
Only works if you know what a normal flow looks like, otherwise its just an agitated water tank.

Rockauto has a wholesaler closeout water pump for OP's car for 7 bucks lol he has no excuse

>>28555569
not even the shipping juggle game could save you?

>>28555581
fuck, i always wondered about a transparent thermostat housing to see it in action, and garage 54 delivers once again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nNbiKjquwg

>>28555633
I can sort of see mine in action because the radiator hose temperature probe won't start reading higher temperatures until the thermostat opens so once it shoots from like 110 to 197 then I know the thermostat has opened

Anyway!!!! I just drove my testing road yet again, at night with no air conditioning like I did with the electric fans, and the hottest she got was 212. Technically 213 but that was only for like 3 seconds lol
No I'm not going to say there aren't any problems because it still got up to 221 on that road with the AC running during the day which I'm not exactly comfortable with, but I still want to consider this an accomplishment of some sort.

Also definitely don't ever buy an electric fan that looks anything like this, I'm convinced at this point that they are all scams and/or not actually intended for radiator use and/or skill issue and also consider this entire thread a living example of what not to do.

>>28555676
I'd barely even call that a blade profile, yeah. Gonna flow fuck all and build even less static pressure.

>>28555633
Get a clear distributor cap while youre at it.

>>28555147
The Lincoln Mark 8 fan used to be the ne plus ultra of electric fan conversions as it was common, cheap, and could move a fuckton of air. Dim memory says 3500 cfm. Now it's kinda hard to get though, there's just not enough Mark 8's around anymore. Further, their power requirements are a bit difficult to deal with. They'll pull something stupid like 100+ amps on the initial start and fry most every common relay out there. Ford duty-cycled the things up to speed via the PCM and that's what they need to work well. Around 2000 there were some aftermarket controllers made but those are all long gone now.

After the MArk 8 got hard to get people went to the 3.8 Taurus fan, which flowed a bit less nut was still far better than any aftermarket. Then came the LT1 Camaro dual-fan that was a little weaker than the 3.8 Taurus but came in a shroud. At the time SPAL was as much of a joke at this as anything chinese.

Personally, removing the clutch fan was a mistake if for no other reason than you know the fucker is working all the time instead of wondering which connection failed this time. If determined to continue, then a couple design precepts are necessary such as there MUST be a shroud that covers virtually 100 percent of the radiator. The fan(s) need to be spaced by the shroud approx 1 inch away from the radiator so that it pulls from the entire surface of the radiator. Engineer you wiring harness for the fan(s) to be able to supply in excess of 100 amps and watch some youtubes on how to make quality connections. You'll have to buy a few professional tools too.

I say put the factory fan back and don't let yourself get beat by a piece of plastic.

>>28555712
none for mopar RIP

Do highway speeds put a lot of pressure on the fan shroud? I have complete faith in the c-clamps holding the top of it but I have a lot less faith in those plastic things holding the bottom of it and since I'm sticking with the mechanical fan now I'd like to make sure it's mounted securely...

I do have the metal clips that originally held the fan to the factory radiator, but it's too low to be able to use those on this one.

>>28555147
I'm going to be the odd man out and say the 2nd gen ford taurus v6 2 speed fan was a pretty good upgrade but you needed to wire it with the 2 speed volvo fan relay, a BMW two speed fan temp sensor, I got it to work once and burnt up an inline fuse and I never could get it to work, I ended up going back to a clutched fan and built a shroud out of several state roadsigns since they were retired and the 3 core radiator didn't fit the factory shroud.
I am bad at wiring and am basically a caveman.

>>28555592
>consoom
It pretty much pumps water or it doesn’t.

>>28555785
He's right about the $7 water pump, maybe I'll buy it just in case even though I'm pretty sure mine appears to be working

>>28554745
either you do it or let your engine become toast

>easy to snap the bolts off too
use pb blaster and a torch if you got one

>>28555625
qrd on this?

>>28555751
>>28555783
I'll just leave it as is until something breaks, then. There's enough broken shit on the car to fix anyway that I don't need to try upgrading stuff that already works.

I am probably gonna do the 3G alternator upgrade though

>>28555999
>the 3G alternator upgrade
It was pretty easy for me, I'd recommend doing it. (Just don't do what I did and somehow get this very simple diagram wrong in the process and spend an entire afternoon wondering why the battery light keeps coming on.)

>>28555999
sometimes you have to add and remove this and that from your cart before you can get it to all ship from the same warehouse. sometimes, warehouses also only have a limited quantity of a particular item so if you add more than a certain amount, it just gets shipped from another different warehouse. sucks when it happens but sometimes it works out and you save a decent chunk of change

>>28555999
also, checked aussie satan

>>28556012
I heard about that and tried it previously but nothing changed. Do you need to do it a specific way?

cars are pain and we are all masochists

>>28556015
don't think so. last time i had to do it i just kept trying random combinations. it kinda felt like building a jenga tower lol. i think i eventually just caved and shipped from two warehouses instead of one

>>28556022
okay so I wasn't doing anything wrong then. last time I only had a few parts in my cart anyway so I don't think there was much wiggle room to get stuff from different warehouses

>>28556012
That's stupid, the system should attempt to consolidate orders to one single Warehouse by default

>>28556037
it does but i think sometimes certain item combinations just mess with it. can't have it all i guess

>>28556037
They have a separate option you can choose to "pick similar components that share warehouses" since they'll have 10 different ball joints from different brands- which is fine for a shitbox.

It's done. I've done it. The eclipse that originally held this shroud to the factory radiator do not work here because there is nothing to clip them onto, as the fan shroud is slightly lower than the radiator itself.
However, I used every single brain cell in unison for just long enough to realize that all I need to do is add two bolts pointing upwards from the bottom, and drill two holes in the shroud to stick onto those bolts.
I don't even have nuts on the ends to hold the shroud, it's not necessary, it's more than enough to hold it in place from the bottom and the C clamps will hold it down onto them from above.
No pieces of plastic sticking through the radiator, no worrying about the fan shroud getting pushed out of alignment at Highway speeds, and no more worrying about overheating.

Later I'll start making some accounts on Boomer forums so I can join the chorus of ridiculing anyone who considers using cheap Chinese electric fans. It is my destiny.

>>28554076 (OP)
Amazon fans have been under performing what they promised for years now. You have to get a fan from a brand you know, like delta.
My 2020 truck has a electronic clutch fan and has never gotten hot. It's noisy on startup but not bad.

>>28556985
I actually do have a large electric fan for a newish model Dodge truck, my uncle gave it to me, but it's too tall to fit in the crown victoria.
Interestingly enough if I could make it fit it would probably work with my existing wiring, it's supposedly requires a 60 amp relay and that's what I used, but I'm not even going to begin trying to figure out how to make that thing work.

>>28556981
Not a dumb idea actually

>>28554076 (OP)
It was the boomers who originally had the bright idea of swapping for electric fans because "can save muh 2hp".

>>28554321
Worley parts are actually goated
They make oil coolers for rotaries that are $80 and mog everything short of mazda oem units that cost like $1000 new

>>28557502
>oem units that cost like $1000 new
it just keeps happening

its because I didn't have a chrome one.......

If electric fans are good enough for this they're good enough for your use

>>28559327
for me it's the hydraulic fan. always loved this little bit of engineering

>>28555751
3500cfm for a single rad fan installation on a 5 liter/300hp class v8 is dead standard.
Going back to a previous post of mine,
We can see what speed a fan's (running) flow rate becomes a restriction by simple math.

40MPH = 211,200 feet per hour / 3600 = 58 feet per second.
If we assume the rad grill opening is a mere 2 square feet, and assume the airflow through the rad is "50% efficient"
>58 x 2 x .5
>58 cfm
>* 60 second
>3500 cfm
At 40mph airflow through a 2 square foot radiator grill opening with 7PSI restriction (laughably insane - reality is more like 2.5PSI or 82.5% efficient ) has the same cfm flow as a rad fan.

So electric conversions are great because they remove the mechanical fan's massive parasitic losses...but OPs states problem has nothing to do with radiator fans, at all. At low cruising speed his radiator is realistically flowing +40% CFM than the fan is rated to provide, that fan being rated at like 2500 rpm not the 1300 that vehicle runs 40mph at in OD.

Again niggers this thread is retard thread for retard people. You are all mentally retarded.

>>28559348
>having to deal with even more fluid lines
nah fuck that

>>28559371
it sounds annoying but at least on toyotas they're extremely reliable

>>28559467
What Toyotas have them? The only car I know with it is an older Jeep Grand Cherokee.

>>28559549
luxobarges

>>28559348
I'm fascinated with unusual hydraulic and vacuum operated stuff on older cars

>>28559783
It's a pain to repair apparently.
The parts are hard to find too, you can't fix it with off the shelf wiring, relays, temp sensors and so on. Requires more maintenance too.

>>28559783
It's real fuckin neato until you have to navigate the mess of spaghetti under the hood

>>28559783
>vacuum operated stuff on older cars
>>28559826
>It's real fuckin neato until you have to navigate the mess of spaghetti under the hood

Allow me to present my stock vacuum brain.

>>28559878
It's... it's beautiful...
though yeah I would hate working on it

>>28554076 (OP)
What car?
And you do have a point. People switch to electric fans because they don't sap horsepower, WELL THERE IS THE ADMISSION of how powerful engine driven fans are. A fan that is using 4 horsepower will blow your hat off from 5 feet away with the amount of air it moves.

>>28559918
a '90 crown vic

>>28554076 (OP)
>Not enough cooling for climbing hills

Install OIL and TRANSMISSION coolers. Your tranny can be cooled completely by a large aftermarket cooler if you can find space for it. Oil cooling makes a major difference to engine life as does hydraulic fluid (which is what tranny fluid functionally is) temp.

>>28555520
I suspect you may have been looking in the wrong place. Eg https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1990,ltd+crown+victoria,5.0l+302cid+v8,1434350,cooling+system
Depends on which engine.
That being said, i'd've still gone with a 'regular' radiator before any random drop shipped chinkshit, regardless of whether they say it's 'aluminum' or not (they all use aluminum cores btw).

>>28559955
Maybe someday I will but the reason I didn't go with an external transmission cooler is because apparently having the transmission lines go through the radiator helps warm it up during the colder months
>>28559969
I do indeed have it on RockAuto but when I was looking for a new radiator earlier this year they didn't have any aluminum ones at all

>>28559969
My chink rad works fine, better than the OEM 2 part shit that leaks at the seams

>>28559945
Perfect car for an engine driven fan. If the fan hits the shroud then just cut the shroud a bit. Shrouds work best when they don't go around the fan anyway, it's just that the factories didn't do it that way because it exposes the blades to your fingers if you're in the engine bay.

>>28559985
>apparently having the transmission lines go through the radiator can introduce water into your transmission
Now go google what a transmission thermostat is.

>>28554076 (OP)
I've driven some fucked up shit boxes and never had that much of an issue with a fan shroud. With zip ties and a dremel everything is adjustable, it's just plastic.

>>28554076 (OP)
When ever you buy non-OEM electric fan. You should verify that really are buying the correct type of fan, there are some aftermarket fans out there that may blow air in wrong direction where air flow goes out of of the engine bay and at other front of the car. This may interfere against proper cooling of the radiator and engine when you are driving the car forwards.

You also want the fan to be similar size as the OEM fan was, you should not install much smaller size fan.

>>28560238
Same. Most of my fan shroud is gone because I fitted a bigger fan, and the rest is super glue and zip ties.

>>28560238
I have it fit perfectly now, and yeah, it didn't take much!
I got it up to 221 today, then I parked it and had to shut it off while it was still 217, and then I opened the hood and gave the fan a spin- it spun exactly as much as it spins when cold, so I'm going to assume the clutch fan ain't clutch fanning and henceforth I have ordered a new one.

I also went to the store to get an 11mm ratcheting wrench to make it a little easier on my future self and they only had 10mm and 12mm so that's nice :(

>>28560449
Did they have a 7/16"? Close enough to 11 and actually probably what the bolt is to begin with on an 80s burger barge

>>28560452
I don't think it's a 7/16 but I guess I'll give that a try later (or tomorrow once it cools down so I don't burn myself)

>>28560454
Correction, I never tried using a 7/16 on it and if it turns out to fit I'm gonna be really annoyed with my past self for being dumb

>>28559549
the 92-96 year camrys, but i think it was only for the 3vz-fe engine though. therefore US market would've been 92-93, 94-96 got the 1mz but i dunno if that used the same hydro fan or went to electrics.
i think some cars that got the 2jz and/or 1uz also had hydro setups as well. it's not uncommon for people to replace them with electrics only to go back to the hydro setup because the electrics just can't cope
supposedly, one of the design requirements for the xv10 camry was that the temp needle on the dash couldn't move while the car was in the hottest temps of death valley, climbing up a mountain road grade, with the AC on full blast

>>28554090
>1990
should have bought a reliable pre war car without all the breaking bullshit

>>28561279
I'm not made of money and up here all of those have dissolved into piles of rust

is it worth it

>>28561775
why does it look bent to shit

>>28562763
I don't know but I think mine is somewhat unbalanced
Of course no wonder it's unbalanced when it has three fan blades on one side and two fan blades on the other side, I don't really get why it's put together like that

>>28562763
>>28562767
the lopsided blades are to cut down on noise, look up 'blade pass frequency' because there's a science to it, but the gist of it is that the uneven spacing prevents harmonics from generating a positive feedback loop (think amplifier and microphone put next to each other) that results in lots of noise at certain RPMs.

>>28554273
>$500 fan clutch
>1990 Crown Vic
>what the actual fuck

The overheating you describe sounds more like a bad radiator cap / air trapped in the system, did you make sure to bleed it good?

>>28562866
That actually makes complete sense, and I think the one on my van is the same. The thing I worry about is that the fan seems to be unbalanced, I thought I had fixed my so-called misfire in the process of redoing the ignition system, but it actually turned out to be the fan making the engine shake randomly, because it came right back once I put the clutch fan back on.
Can I just ignore the minor shaking? It's not exactly violent, but it does feel like a random misfire. Alternatively, I could blow 70 bucks on a brand new fan from ebay, but maybe it's just the clutch that he's on balanced so maybe I'll just see how it acts with the new one.
(I've ordered a Hayden 2710 Btw)

>>28560452
I tried fitting a 7/16 on it today and it seems to feel pretty loose, so I guess the bolts really are 11mm

>>28562866
Evenly spaced fan blades is how they make air raid sirens.

>>28560449
Replace
The
Fucking
Water
Pump

>>28563695
I'm going to replace the fan clutch, then I'm going to do some hard driving, and if it goes above 220 degrees at any point, then, I will do the water pump.
After all, I won't have a choice by that point!

>>28563716
>fucks around with shit that doesnt matter for 2 weeks and blows head gasket even though he knows what the actual.problem is....

>>28563773
I just want to exhaust all possible avenues before I punish myself by spending all day fighting with the engine to get the water pump off.
If the new fan clutch doesn't help, then that's it. There's nothing else to be done. The water pump is the only thing left.

Does no one else think the radiator is way too small for a V8? The radiator in >>28554239 looks like a single wide row or two row, which I wouldn't run on any small block Ford/Chevy. In addition, the overhang of the radiator brackets suggest a larger radiator could be fitted from the factory. That combined with OP's original post of it stays cool at idle with the electric fans, but not while going up a hill, suggests a capacity issue, not an airflow issue. (Or alternatively a bad water pump, as others have suggested).

OP didn't get a radiator for a V6 model or something, right?

>>28563903
You might be surprised to find out that this radiator is actually slightly thicker than the original factory radiator it had on it. Not sure what Ford was thinking with that one.

>>28563912
I know that feel. I just re-did the cooling in my snowplow ('86 Chevrolet K20) this summer because it was constantly overheating even in the dead of winter because the plow blocks the airflow. In summer with the plow off, it would still frequent 210 on level ground going 55 if it were above 80 degrees out.

Apparently, the "heavy duty" option was a tiny two-row rad that was used for the 292 I6, 262 V6, 305 V8, and 350 V8 universally.

Anyway, the question remains valid; is the radiator large enough?

>>28563927
After pic. Replaced it with a much wider, four core radiator, which is way overkill. Had to hack the shit out of the fan shroud to get it to fit.

>>28563691
huh never thought about that. wonder if anyone sells a home pedestal fan with unevenly spaced blades to make it quieter

>>28563927
>is the radiator large enough?
I guess we'll find out once I get that fan clutch on. Probably not, though.
I really wish I had waited a while before ordering a radiator, because the entire reason I ordered a radiator on Amazon to begin with is because RockAuto didn't even have a section for aluminum radiators for my car, let alone having any in stock.
They do now, but I'm in way too deep on the Amazon rad to be able to afford one.
Or to word it differently, my radiator budget is way overspent, lol.

That K20 radiator looks pretty similar to the one my G20 had, I replaced that one with a thicker radiator and to my surprise the fan shroud actually fit the new radiator perfectly, as if it had been designed, almost 40 years ago, to fit an aluminum radiator from RockAuto in the modern day.
Like, the plastic Ridge at the top of the shroud debt originally rested against the old radiator, it clipped perfectly on top of the metal tab running along the top of the new radiator. I guess the world needs balance, because everything went right doing the radiator on the van and everything has gone wrong doing the radiator on the car.

SBC 350. Anyone have a part number for a satisfactory temperature switch? One wire, screw into cylinder head 3/8 NPT, I think.

>>28564294
temp gauge switch? rockauto have anything?

>>28564531
oops. re-read what you actually typed. was thinking of a temp gauge sender zozzle

>>28564294
Ran a couple of these, they worked great.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890018

I have an e36 with an electric fan.
Its supposed to kick in at 92C. Thermostat opens at 88C.
The fan never has to do anything when I am moving. I need to stand still for at least 30s before the fan turns on.
I dont even have a fan shroud but I will get one because I want to have a vent pipe for the hot air coming from the radiator. I want to make a vent on the fenders to keep the hot air out of the engine bay.

>>28564622
> I want to make a vent on the fenders
I wish my car had something like that because if it's been idling with the air conditioning on in the sun for a little while the fenders will straight up burn your hand

>>28564599
>https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890018
>3/8 NPT
>no place in my engine for this
>radiator hose has plenty of room for a temp sender
>radiator hoses are always 1/8 NPT
I hate it here

>>28559348
that's either mb or shitroen

>>28566688
it's from a toyota

Soon

>>28554076 (OP)
Are you retarded? Shave the fan blades down a bit.

>>28566579

Drill out and tap to 3/8, or just buy a thermoswitch from a different model that is 1/8

>>28567559
that's probably the last thing you want to do because it'll throw off the balance if you don't do it evenly (and you won't)

>>28567559
Only Mexicans would do this

>>28567392
>hey look i bought another component that I dont need because im too fucking lazy of a wrenchlet to fix the actual problem.

>>28567032
so it actually works then?

>>28567559
i aint doing that
>>28567776
you are probably right but I am trying it anyway :(

>>28568018
today we will find out how stupid I am

>>28568238
Just fix the pump, man.

>>28555676
>Anyway!!!! I just drove my testing road yet again, at night with no air conditioning like I did with the electric fans, and the hottest she got was 212. Technically 213 but that was only for like 3 seconds lol
So.
Just drove that test road, no AC, pretty warm out, high of 206 because I got stuck at the red light again and turned on the AC again.
So I went to my other test road. Much steeper, much longer, more twisty curves, and I left the AC on this time.
Last time I drove this road, it was at night, below 70, and I think she got up to like, 222? Without AC? It wasn't good.

This time? Ambient of 80 out with the AC running? Highest she got was- briefly- 213. I think I'll take it. That's good enough. Fuckin' fan clutch man. Why didn't I start with that?

Maybe next year I'll do the fan clutch anyway just to be sure, but I think she's good for now.

>>28568684
>Maybe next year I'll do the
WATER PUMP

>>28568684
>>28568685
I may have spoken a bit too soon since while sitting here at idle with the AC it's slowly risen to 208 lol
be funny if I traded okay idle cooling for okay 2nd gear hill climbing cooling huh

>>28568694
While it apparently needed a clutch there's still something wrong. My 4.6 Explorer with a clutch fan would sit at 194 all the time, moving or not. Yours should sit right at the thermostat too unless it's working hard like pulling a 6 percent grade for a while.

>>28568705
I'm hoping that is more of an issue of me having a thin ass radiator than a water pump problem but I'm kinda stuck with this stupid radiator financially

>>28568694
>sitting here at idle
Well now I'm at Sheetz just sitting here with the engine running and it's pegged precisely at 201, so maybe it was just a bit heatsoaked from the uphill hawgg cranking session followed by immediately being parked

My brother has an electric fan on his burnout car, the only retards are the ones buying car parts from amazon and other chinese companies.

Jesus fucking christ.

Hey OP.
You are A FUCKING MORON
A functioning colling system doesnt fluctuate.
I can be in the rocky mountains on a ski trip with snow on the road or heading through the Arizona desert in July during a heatwave and my engine temperature STAYS THE SAME.

At this point I dont even give a fuck.
We tried to help you.
I hope you blow a head gasket tomorrow.
Dumb fuck bottom feeder genetic waste.

>>28568885
You're probably right

To me it sounds like Ford didn't equip OP's car with a sufficient radiator for hard driving, OP misdiagnosed a bad fan clutch, and all of the fiddle-fucking with electric fans was a complete waste of his time. Maybe they would've worked if he had a thicker rad. Lowering the peak temp on a particular road by ~10 degrees (despite the additional thermal load of air conditioning!) by swapping the fan clutch alone is a notable improvement, and I bet the vehicle would be completely fine if it had a proper two-row rad.

I would recommend a 180 degree thermostat, however, and why not try to get a snake camera into the water pump housing to actually examine the impeller?

>>28569200
>180 degree thermostat
I do plan to switch to one of those someday!

>>28570563
If your shit cant cool to 190 then a different thermostat wont do jack.
You're going to overheat with even no thermostat because your cooling system is not operating to spec to begin with.

The thermostat controls the engines minimum temperature.

>>28560956
>one of the design requirements for the xv10 camry
The LS400 engineers donated a lot of the design philosophy / Tech to the XV10.
It should have been codified law for Toyota after that point, given the success of that platform.

>>28572336
Yes but apparently it doesn't fully open until 10 or so degrees past its rated temperature, so if I get one that is fully open at 190 that will be better than one that is fully open at 210?
Also I swapped to the coolant readout on my Equinox because I suspect the temperature gauge is worthless and that car fluctuates from 188 coasting downhill at 50 to 208 climbing the highway at 80, so even a modern car with all of its fancy computers seems to have temperature fluctuations.
I guess my plan is just to send it for now, but keep a close eye on both temperature gauges and shut it off if it starts to suddenly get much hotter than normal.
And hey, if I make a thread here to bitch about changing a water pump on the side of the road in october, you guys can tell me that you told me so.

>>28572336
I just cut them free of their parent washer and enjoy never repeating the (new) thermostat failure that cost me a freshly rebuilt engine.

I don't live where I need one so this has worked flawlessly for decades.

To add another data point to the mountain of autism I have laid out in this thread, in 2023 and 2024 when I was still using the original fan, original fan clutch, and original radiator, there were a few periods of time in the fall and spring where I actually removed the fan shroud completely and drove around with nothing but an engine fan and a radiator.
I did this because I got tired of the engine fan scraping against the shroud, and at the time I was still using the original mounting hardware, which was already at its maximum adjustments.
In fact, I cut half an inch off of the tabs at the bottom where it clipped onto the radiator and it's not even that was enough to help, lol
But anyway, it didn't overheat when driving around with no shroud, so perhaps that's evidence towards a healthy water pump or just me getting lucky.
Also, I no longer trust the temperature needle in my equinox, because it basically doesn't do anything relevant to what the actual temperature is according to the display. It's almost like it's just set on a timer to climb to its set position after the engine has been running for a certain amount of time and then just sit there until you turn it off.

(also, look how fuckin thin that factory radiator is, lmao)

>>28573935
The symptoms described, running hot under load at speed, is consistent with restricted coolant flow such as a clogged radiator, or a water pump that ain't pumping no mo'.

As for the Equinox, that's common on most cars post OBD2 since the gauge doesn't have it's own sender, like on your Mercury, but uses data from the ECT processed by the ECM instead. The software smooths the info displayed by the gauge in order to not scare Stacy into a warranty claim by showing that everything is ok until it's not.

>>28574126
Damn it Stacey :(

Could it also be a radiator that's too thin or nah?

>>28574344
>Could it also be a radiator that's too thin or nah?
If the radiator flows sufficiently less than the planned flow rate of the original it would act as a restriction just the same as one that is clogged.

>>28573935
Fan shrouds are an answer to the industry's search for the ultimate min/max build.
I have vitlntage vehicles thay were designed and sold with shrouds. Theyre not that big of a deal.

Ive ran my big block with no shroud through Arizona/New Mexico/Texas during peak summer without issue.

>>28573935
Fan shrouds are an answer to the industry's search for the ultimate min/max build.
I have vitlntage vehicles thay were designed and sold without shrouds. Theyre not that big of a deal.

Ive ran my big block with no shroud through Arizona/New Mexico/Texas during peak summer without issue.

>Crown Vic
Nog or Boomer which is it

>>28574625
the OP appears to be white (based) and obese (cringe)

>>28575036
thanks? I guess?
>>28574363
I wonder if the original radiator was just underspecced and the new one is just kinda shitty then

>>28575163
>>28573935
>original radiator
it probably is, based on hose clamps alone. tgats insane for a V8.

>>28573935
What's that, like 1"? Barely more than what's in my Twingo.

>>28555581
>A functioning cooling system will see zero temp climb when coming to a stop.
Most bone stock cars will rise a few degrees while sitting idle for instance at a long stop light, especially cars that use OEM E-fans that kick on at a set temperature because that temp will deliberately be a few degrees higher than a highly loaded highway cruise on a hot day will maintain. Even a trick brushless E-fan or OEM clutch fan flows less than the air going through the radiator at 45mph.

You see this stuff when you tune or have aftermarket gauges/scan tools and not compensated/damped OE needles that deliberately have a huge dead band around "nominal" operating temp so that people don't come back to the dealer
>MY NEW CAR'S TEMP NEEDLE GOES UP EVERY TIME I STOP ITS GOING TO BREAK DOWN
Almost no OE temp gauge is linear even on nice cars or old cars.

>>28575197
it's Ford being Ford is what it is, these look like someone was sitting lugnuts on top of the radiator so it's barely thicker than a damn lugnut. also, ford stamp, so yeah that's the factory rad.

>>28574533
was it a fixed fan? how were temps when idle in traffic? i know cars 80s and onwards generally designed the cooling system so the needle wasn't meant to move a hair in normal operation, but apparently older cars it was normal for the needle to climb a bit when idle on a hot day

>>28575219
I thought fan shrouds became a thing because air conditioning became a thing

>>28575299
could be. it's the easiest way to significantly improve air flow without introducing extra moving parts etc.

>>28575304
Makes it a little bit harder to lose fingers too

>>28575219
>was it a fixed fan?
Yes.
Gauge never fluctuates.
Ive had that truck for 30 years.

Holy fuck this thread. Leave it to Ford to fuck up something simple like a cooling system. E-fan conversions are super common in the GMT800 world and nobody has issues like these.

>>28575219
>but apparently older cars it was normal for the needle to climb a bit when idle on a hot day

Can confirm with my 70s car and I’ve replaced the dual core radiator (and cap), water pump, thermostat, and fan clutch.

>>28575535
I hope my struggles have at least been entertaining

>>28575577
wonder if those gauges/temp senders just give a more realistic look at the cooling system that was eventually changed to effectively be an idiot light with a bit more range beyond too hot/too cold. bet you hooking up an aftermarket temp gauge/readout to the stock sender would show fluctuating temps all the time, otherwise you'd end up with customers harping about the needle moving >>28575206

>>28575627
I think that's why they gave the needle such a wide swath of
> N O R M A L /
Because then it can show a range of temperatures without freaking out the owner, but I didn't really like it myself because I had to add a whole separate gauge just to see what the actual numbers are.
I guess a dummy gauge is better than an idiot light because an idiot light is just on or off where a dummy gauge shows you more states, like cold, normal, not good, very bad, but I wish it was just a normal gauge.

>>28575627
I really should get a good aftermarket gauge and hook it up cuz I’m curious! But the stock one works well enough. On hot summer days (like now) it’s always a bit over the middle and on exactly the middle in winter when the air is cold. The owner’s manual says that it’s normal to fluctuate.

It’s never overheated and the coolant has never looked like chocolate milk either.

>>28555581
A lot of cars with electric fans turn them on above the thermostat fully open temperature.

>>28575206
>Almost no OE temp gauge is linear even on nice cars or old cars.
Trucks probably have that right, I remember the gauge in GMT800 being pretty accurate.

>>28575742
The thermostat regulates the engines minimum temperature.
The fan regulates the engines maximum temperature.
There should be zero overlap of the two- its one or the other. If both are "active" at the same time there is an issue with the components.

>>28576068
>The thermostat regulates the engines minimum temperature.
With enough airflow (like when driving on the highway) you can sit near the said minimum but the temp will go up if there's less airflow (if you slow down). When the temperature is high enough, electric fan will turn on to provide more airflow and possibly reduce the temperature. If there's not enough load, it can reduce the temperature close to the thermostat fully open temperature if you force the fan to operate by, for example, turning the A/C on. Without the A/C the fan is set to operate with hysteresis but inside the range above the thermostat fully open temp. See the pic for the actual temperatures I have on hand.

>If both are "active" at the same time there is an issue with the components.
Idk what do you mean by "active" talking about the thermostat. It's either closed (small loop), semi-open (mixed, actively regulating, so probably this) or fully open (radiator loop), or stuck in any of those (not working properly). It's completely normal for the thermostat to be fully open, so the "normal" coolant temperature range is not limited to the "semi-open" thermostat temperature range, it extends into electric fans operating range. I'm not OP and I was replying to the post stating
>A functioning cooling system will see zero temp climb when coming to a stop.
which is incorrect.