Thread 28581242

how bad are jeeps really? specially the ZJ
>t. broke turd world ameriboo

these were good cars.. but they're old, so they will have old car problems more than anything else.

Usdm headlights are shit, there are euro ones for $50-60 a piece. 4.0 is backed by the 42re which won't stand up to much abuse. NP249 in the 93-95 sucks, dana 35 won't hold up to big tires, the front driveshaft has cv joints which are much more fragile. Dana 44a has no aftermarket. Everything else is body electrical. The vic is always dead, you can replace it with a cubby for your phone, auto HVAC controls go nuts and blows heat, radio rarely works and if you replace it, the controls on the back of the steering wheel won't work. Liftglass button usually dies, clutch fan is at its limits and causes overheating issues, 5.2 and 5.9 engines are underwhelming. Floor will flood because the HVAC drain gets plugged up. They're better than their reputation but you have to turn a wrench. Lots of documentation on jeep forums

>>28581242 (OP)
Dad bought one back in the day and the starter went out at 30K. It was under warranty but he was so put out that they could fuck up a crummy starter that bad that he traded it in a few weeks later.

>>28581242 (OP)
The XJ, ZJ, and WJ platforms were just excellent cars. Theu still are, but as another anon said: the newest of these models is 21 years old this year. They all have old car problems, especially in the rust belt areas. All platforms are so easy to work on, evergthing is largely accessible and the layout makes sense. I have a WJ that I've been chasing rust on for years (4.7L HO Columbia Edition), but I think it's finally time to let her go. Shame, because mechanically the car is largely fine but two decades on salted winter roads has given it more rust than is worth repairing. Loved that car though.

When did Jeep shit the bed?

>>28582686
The Mercedes poverty spec 3.7 and 4.7 engines. Ejecting lifters, disposable cylinder heads, failing computers, hydraulic cooling fans, and shitty transmissions will make you wish you were chasing plug threads on a 2v ford

>>28582686
When Fiat and Chrysler merged, and then even moreso when that merger became Stellantis. The first sign of it, in my opinion, was when the WK Grand Cherokee came with an independent front and rear suspension instead of solid axles. That kind of compromised the whole deal for that model, it was supposed to be a comfortable family hauler that could still tear up off road (see: WJ). However, despite the changes to the suspension, the WK still performed pretty decently off-road. Then, they reintroduced the Cherokee platform after discontinuing the XJ years previously, and the new version was CUV crossover slop. That was the real defining moment for me when I was like "this is going downhill". There were other signs of shitty models that didn't live up to the name (Patriot, Renegade, Liberty to a degree, although the Liberty could still get some if you put some work into it). It kind of just accelerated from there. Grand models became luxury attempts using the cheapest parts imagineable, and the current generation is plagued with issues across the board.

>>28581242 (OP)
Those cars are shit on all levels.
Jeep fags are completely delusional about the quality of those Cherokee

>>28582701
the KJ was called the cherokee everywhere except the US, where it was called the liberty because of 9/11 marketing

>>28581242 (OP)
not bad at all, what give them bad rep is that underneath this plushy american comfort is an good ole solid axle 4x4 drivetrain and suspension that actually require the ownership and regular use of a grease gun.
how many jeep ownerw do you think ever did that? none, so they threw u joints left and right and got death wobble at every bump in the road.

>>28583092
two cast iron solid axles sitting under a 3000lbs unibody with a bindy triangulated 4 link also makes these handle like absolute shit

>>28583107
steering/front axle setup is quite good, rear axle is meh its actually better with leaf springs like xj/mj.
they came up with their front axle setup in 85 and by then most others where still running leafs in the front. same with the unibody others where still using frames. it was mind blowing back then that you could have solid axle 4x4 with good ground clearance and it was still not much higher than regular wagon and you could actually flog it in the corners and twisties without instantly rolling over due to its low cog.

I'm thinking about buying a WJ. How retarded is this idea in 2025?

More specifically, I'm trying to find one with 4.7 HO in my corner of Europe. I know how to order from Rockauto (VAT is a bitch though) and have wrenching experience with GMT800 and some other GM platforms, but no experience whatsoever with Chrysler products and I don't know how bad they really are. There's no road salt around me so probably they aren't rusted to shit, but there's no junkyards filled with older Jeeps either. I also heard some critical parts for them are not available new anymore, and for used the sellers ask something exorbitant.

>>28583208
due to my (now mostly gone) jeep obsession i somehow infected both my brother and father with it. father drove a wj for years then sold it 3 years ago.
its was a 2,7 merc diesel thats a story on its own, but for the car itself, its comfy and plushy, not very big neither inside nor outside, filled of electronics and thats where the problems start.... i can guarantee you the heater flap thingy isnt working and to fix it properly you have to remove the whole dash. bandaid repair kits exist where you cut a hole in the back of your glowbox and do it that way. lots of such things. and the 4,7 isnt the best thing out there in terms of reliability and ease of service. 4,0L is better and 2,7crdi is by far most common in europe. it suffers from "black death" though and you cant get to the two rear injectors without either pulling the engine or cutting access holes in the sheet metal (we did the latter)
the wj dad sold because he was piss tired of it still runs i saw it last today and its current owner loves it.

>>28583205
i have to disagree, S10's, F150's, many hardbodies, and a few tacomas, the jeep has the harshest ride and least confident cornering abillity.

>>28583252
>you have to remove the whole dash.
How easy is it? I mean, the interior looks rather old school with exposed screws here and there, but how biodegradable is the plastic and how retarded were the engineers?
Speaking of which, it's a rather small vehicle compared to what I dealt with previously that had V8s, and those were pushrod, the one in the Jeep is SOHC. How cramped is the access and how bad is the layout for wrenching?

>the 4,7 isnt the best thing out there in terms of reliability and ease of service.
It's rather quick by today's standards, it's a V8 and I like the sound. The cheapest gas here is 91 AKI equivalent, so the HO version can benefit from it.

>4,0L is better and 2,7crdi is by far most common in europe.
One friend is a big fan of the 242 in XJs but I don't really like the stories he tells me about it and it has too few cylinders. 2.7 iirc has the Mercedes 5-speed attached to it which is considered better than 545RFE, but I don't like diesels, and that one is rather slow with no real options to make it quicker. If I wanted a 6-cylinder or a diesel I wouldn't bother with Jeep.

>>28583284
s10 is gm crap and basicly a street truck, its just not made for rough stuff. the others are all bigger and in a different class.
jeep comanche dominated in scca truck racing for a while, so much that when chrysler/jeep wanted to use scca to push sale on their dodge dakota after having axed the comanche they took the existing mj racing trucks and gave them a dakota body and kept on winning.

>>28583306
i got a buddy who offroad a wj with a 4,7ho on 33 or 35 here in norway. hes been lucky and i dont think he had much engine problems but hey when all you do is tow it to a offroad track you dont really care much about check engine lights?
you simply dont remove the dash, you just dont. do the bandaid fix.
i love diesel but it loose some of its point in that the auto doesnt let you chug along low rpm it always keeps the rpm up.
4,0L is a gift from god, and it goes sooo well with the aw4 auto but im not shure that was ever offered in wj?
if you do want to do a trasfercase swap from the semi reliable viscouse shit in a wj a 242 is the way to go. it offers the best of both worlds.

>>28581242 (OP)
Junk

>>28583343
>you simply dont remove the dash, you just dont.
But why?
>4,0L is a gift from god, and it goes sooo well with the aw4 auto but im not shure that was ever offered in wj?
Some sources say 242HD has been offered in 02-03 WJ, but there might be some differences between the US and Euro-built Jeeps and the equipment availability.

>>28583374
dude its a bitch ass job that takes days of nothing but cursing and suffering for such a small problem that can be fixed in an evening doing the bandaid.
yeah its a bit of a mess, most euro specd jeeps where assembled in the magna steyr factory in graz, austria. some by shipping over empty shells that got their engine fitted there, some (i think wj was) made there from bottom up with parts from usa, and some was imported as buildt from usa just given eu spec lights.

>>28583319
no they're all quarter tons

Looks comfy

>>28583699
your "ton" nomenclature means nothing to the outside world and often doesnt in your world as well. was a 1ton MJ a quarter ton? because they existed, i had one. 2,8gm v6 (pre 4,0L) all the heavy duty shiet, 1000kg load capacity in the bead.

>>28585316
then explain "ton" in trucks.

>>28585542
google it buddy, no one is wasting time educating a rock

>>28586341
I'm shopping around for a WJ in the ~$2500 range. Damn good looking truck in my opinion.

>>28585623
the imperial ton (2000lbs) is basicly the same as a metric ton (1000kg) so tell me was the metric ton package comanche a 1/4 ton truck? it shure as hell sounds like it was a 1ton truck?

>>28586455
>the imperial ton (2000lbs) is basicly the same as a metric ton (1000kg)
yet 1500 lb trucks are "half-tons" and 2500 lb ones are "3/4 tons". I guess the US has great engineers only because those not so great just didn't survive through all this bullshit.

>>28586442
They are around 10000 Euro here sadly

Turo'd a V6 wrangler, like 2014 ish, when I was in the states. 64,000 miles on it. The ECU just plain failed and left us stranded. Can't say I'd be rushing out to drive another.

>>28586462
this is why no one takes american car manufacturing seriously. we dont give a crap about your fractional tons or class this and that, its the actual load carrying capability and tow capability that matters.
a wv amarok can carry 1000kg/1ton and tow 3500kg/7700lbs and its regarded as one of the weaker pickups.

>>28586491
I'm not *merican so it's not ours, but I think they tow stuff a bit differently and their tow ratings are different. In Yurop you have to be slow when towing, in Burgerland you have to be as fast as everyone else (which usually means 10+ over the limit because Mutts just can't stop tipping).

>>28586475
>2014 ish
That's Stellantis, so hardly related
We talk about Mercedes and pre-Merc crap

>>28586463
10000 yuro, absolutely not lol

>>28586512
true. tow rating here is with 75-150kg ball weight and the actual rating is what can it take off with uphill in 1th gear then 1,5x that if its a 4x4 with low range for some reason, not like anyone will ever tow in low range but they can and thus they can haul heavier loads.
stopping? the trailer should stop itself with surge brakes.
speed? well you should never drive faster than you can control and if your trailer start acting out at 70kmh thats your max speed with that load. long drive, 120kmh speed limit? though luck you are stuck at 70.

>>28582686
The WJ was still good but after the WJ everything they sold was crap.

>>28583208
My I6 WJ was the best vehicle I ever had. The roll over risk was real but other than the thing was fucking rock solid.

>>28586802
>The roll over risk was real
Aren't they better known for fuel tank-related risks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N6heV_cxjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCENusTup3I

>>28581242 (OP)
I own the 2.7 CRD WJ (mercedes diesel engine) European version. Excellent car if well maintained

>>28589180
iirc the problems with the WJ stem around the gas motors, and everything for the 4.0 being unique to the WJ

>>28581242 (OP)
Jeeps were fine before Chrysler got their hands on them. Then they started the slow march to enshitification. If you can find an unmolested example, it'll be fine beyond the usual old car problems.

>>28589180
Nice. Any problems getting OEM parts/consumables locally in Europe?

>>28589289
What were the issues with 4.7 PowerTechs, HO specifically? I mean I've been doing some forum reading, but can't remember anything "typical", and the engine remained in production in other Chrysler vehicles, got modified with twin spark ignition, different ECU and so on. WJ owners even tried adopting some of these modified parts like cams or air intakes to get more power.

And does anyone (re)build their engines and transmissions nowadays? I mean getting a crate one will cost money, but getting a new unit good for another couple of hundreds of your preferable length units might be tempting.

>air intakes
meant intake manifolds

>>28582701
>WK Grand Cherokee came with an independent front and rear suspension instead of solid axles
WK1 GC had solid rear axles.

>>28581242 (OP)
I had a coworker that owned one of these and it was getting repaired constantly. He bought a second car just so he could get to work because it was gone so often. I also knew another guy whose wife had the previous model and it was basically the same story.

I always thought it was a shame since I liked how they look but the stories about them are too scary.

>>28589762
>one of these
Fiat
>the previous model
Merc

>bought a 94 grand cherokee laredo with ~250,000 miles on it for 1600
>put 2x-3x that into fixing it
> when it's not dead it still runs pretty good even after putting another 20000 more on it
Any suggestions on what I should replace next?

>>28583252
Jeeps are gay and retarded

>>28589725
>Nice. Any problems getting OEM parts/consumables locally in Europe?
Engine and transmission are Mercedes, so plenty of OEM parts since they were also used on Sprinters and C,E and ML class. Some semi-OEM parts from Crown. The rest of stuff I buy it on RockAuto and have had no problems with it apart from expensive import taxes.

>>28589725
>What were the issues with 4.7 PowerTechs
Main problem being that they'd drop valve seats after it got hot for one reason or another*. Most times the first sign anybody had that something was wrong was it would kick out a cam follower because the preload was gone which is why you see comments like >>28582694
"ejecting lifters" which is close but not quite there. Chryslers of the period dropped valve seats more often than other makes because they didn't have as tight an interference fit as the others. They eventually adopted a spec in line with everybody else but that didn't happen until something like 2010 so all 4.7's will be affected. I'm not aware of the 4.7 family having any other pattern failures. Just the random shit that comes from speccing the cheap parts in order to maintain profit margin.

*WJ's were hot death on heater cores. The aluminum material of the core is thin to begin with but the electrolytic voltage in their cooling systems was always out of sight and basically swiss-cheesed the heater core fairly quickly. Sometimes by 50k. A lot needed one by 100k ime. Other makes frequently go the cars entire life without needing one.

>>28590432
Thank you.

>>28590432
The 2008+ ones mentioned by >>28589725 suck to drive. No mass air, electronic throttle lazier than an average american, transmission overheats towing a popup camper, shit fuel economy, IDK where the 310hp is it feels absolutely gutless, I got a gmt900 Tahoe with a 5.3 that runs circles around that durango