Thread 28655983

Wait, so Wilwood "Big" brake kits are just shit for normal fags?

I had a good discussion about brakes with some old SCCA track guys.
Apparently not one of them is running Wilwood brakes. Dudes said Wilwood doesn't offer anything that's track capable outside niche racing series.

>>28655983 (OP)
Theyre a massive upgrade on vintage american iron that had drums at all 4 corners, cars that were factory 6 cylinders or just standard single piston calipers.
They were never intended for "race" use. Their entire niche is easy bolt-on kits for street vehicles.

>>28655983 (OP)
First time I've ever heard of Wilwood. None of the performance shops for my car, online or otherwise, ever had or even mentioned them. That doesn't imply good things about Wilwood.
Then again my car comes stock with an Akebono kit so the only thing I really needed to upgrade was brake fluid cooling

AP is the standard for a track car. Then Brembo. I don't think Wilwood are "bad" though, certainly a huge upgrade from non-brembo OE setups / akebono nipshit.

also,
>SCCA guys
snooze

>>28655983 (OP)
For normal fags, any brakes that can soak up and bleed off the heat will be fine.
If the Elantra N can manage with SUV brakes, then any other car should be fine with Wilwoods.

>>28656009
Lots of skilled SCCA drivers with a billion years of experience.
I'm not talking autocross of something.
But the wheel to wheel guys.
>AP racing
They were using AP kits.
Those shiny 5000R calipers.
I looked up the calipers, $3,000 each ouch.

>>28655983 (OP)
race car brakes and pads suck on the streets

>>28655983 (OP)
Wilwood will outperform stock brakes on cars south of $40,000+ cars intended to be sporty. And it will obviously outperform older calipers.

They are also cost-prohibitive for cars you aren't actually tracking / really building. E.g. if I had an old Civic Si, it wouldn't be cost efficient to put these on them because they cost literally half of the car.

>>28656009
Basically this.

>>28656155
A lot of Wilwood kits aren't race, and what you are saying depends on pad material. A lot of standard brakes are under-powered.

Another point of discussion is that I am not sure how much these will do without a bigger master cylinder.

>>28656155
You can put street pads on full race brake systems and have zero problems around town.
Even Full Track pads still work at lower speeds.
Enough to drive to track days anyways.

>>28656185
Speaking of pads, I just checked pads for the CTR brembos - $400 for only the fronts. Ayy lmao. I see why people buy base cars.

While we have this thread, how often should brakes be getting bled?

>>28656196
Bled when you feel a mushy pedal, flushed every 2 years. Speed bleeders are worth their weight in gold.

>>28656194
Lots of aftermarket brakes use common sizes that are a lot cheaper.
I think the Wilwood 7416 pads for my car are only $250 For full race pads.

>>28656196
Depends how quickly your brake fluid is absorbing moisture.
Typically it should be done like once every 2-3yrs. I do mine every month, but track days kills brake fluid.
If you buy a power bleeder, you just put it on your master cylinder and you can bleed all four corners in like 10 minutes.

>>28656006
>First time I've ever heard of Wilwood. None of the performance shops for my car, online or otherwise, ever had or even mentioned them. That doesn't imply good things about Wilwood.
Just because you have your head in the sand doesn't mean they're some small unheard of company.

>>28656210
Out of 20 calipers I have on cars and motorcycles, all 20 of them are equipped with speed bleeders. I would argue they're one of the greatest automotive innovations of all time.

>>28656006
lmao

>>28655983 (OP)
I have a wilwood bbk. Feels gud.

>>28656595
More like a bbc

>>28656620
Porn has rotted your brain

>>28656637
What's pornographic about a broadcasting corporation

>>28656595
>Big
>7416 pad type
Nah bro, that shit ain't big at all.

>>28655983 (OP)
Wilwood has Race kits.
It's just not what the normal fags buy because the Lug drive rotors are 3x the cost of a basic rotor.
And the race calipers are $1,000 each

>>28656182
>A lot of standard brakes are under-powered.
If they’re capable of activating ABS, they’re by definition good enough. I’ve never overheated brakes on the cheapest econoboxes.

>>28655983 (OP)
Wilwood stuff is ok, and mostly they target boomer cars and vintage racers, so it would make sense that someone with a Scion wouldn't have wilwood brakes as an upgrade.

But for God's sake, don't buy anything that has the Dynalite caliper. They are SHIT. Superlite caliper at the very least.

>>28656695
It's the same plate, just a thinner chunk of pad compound.

>>28655983 (OP)
Just get Pagid racing bros. It’s not even more expensive than some marketing based stuff like wilwood. It’s legit what they use in WEC and IMSa

>>28656155
They work Great if you don’t mind the squeeeeeaaaakkkk, which is obnoxious

>>28659317
For me it's the extreme amounts of black dust.
I bought some bp10 pads and they've been very nice on the street.

>>28659297
was looking at dynalites for my front disc conversion but lost interest after seeing the lukewarm reviews for them. ended up going with an eci brake kit. uses a gm d52 caliper from a late 2nd gen firebird, that anti-rattle spring was annoying as fuck but at least i can stick ebc bluestuffs on them now.
>>28659318
if you have a jap car the dixcel z types are great street+track pads. lots of dust (weekly pressure washing required if it annoys you) but they were whisper quiet and i could stomp on the brakes all day and night

>>28655983 (OP)
most big-brake kits are consumer scam, willwood makes good products but I would not buy calipers or full-conversion kits from them.

>>28659297
>Dynalite caliper.
Those are fine for stock power Miata I guess
Pads are cheap as fuck in that size.

>>28659318
>>28659317
Don't run Track pads on street cars?
& No, HP+ or EBC yellows arn't "track pads"
Anything that can't handle 1,200F isn't a real track pad.

>>28659385
>Miata I guess
Yeah maybe. It's not the heat capacity, but the amount that they flex under pressure. Maybe for rear brakes, or a very light car they would be ok.

>>28656006
that's because you're a wrenchlet faggot lol wtf

>>28656317
>speed bleeders
Wrenchlet, lol I would never trust anything besides a basic ass no moving parts bleed valve, that's what makes us different.

>>28659389
I see a lot of NA/NB track guys use the dynalite calipers on track.
No heavy cars though.

I've thought about getting some Racing Aero6 calipers.
But the top track bros keep telling me to save up more $$ and buy the AP 5000 caliper and never look back.

>>28659359
Wilwood kits are awesome for vintage vehicles that have absolute trash factory brake systems (trash by todays standards).
Theyre no-hassle bolt on kits that have had the kinks worked out of them 30 years ago.
For something made post 90s (?) Fuck no.
Absolute waste of money. You can lock up the tires (or activate anti-lock) when you slam on the brakes on anything made in the past 30+ years. Larger brakes wont do jack shit for 99% of cars on the road.
Theyre in the same category as CAIs and cat deletes.

>>28659413
I just don't like kits by application because often enough you're paying for redundant parts, often hundreds of dollars worth of shit that you don't need.

>>28659404
Just spend the coin once and forget about the boomer wilwood brakes.

>>28656196
Do you mean replace/flush?
Two years
Brakes don’t need to be bled unless air got into the system and you’ll know it if it does.

The "hold on!" boomer was running wilwoods

>>28659794
doesn't really matter what brand it was - any brake system would've failed if it was constantly ridden non-stop to control the engine speed.

>>28655983 (OP)
Just be less poor and buy brembo

>>28659794
He was running the tiny Wilwoods and the street pads.
Drag them enough and the heat means by by pad friction.

>>28659849
Biggest meme in /o/ history was wilwoods no defence lol

>>28659403
Tell me you don't know how a speed bleeder works

>>28659794
True. Red dynalite calipers with a thin rotor, because you don't need big brakes on a drag race car huehuehue
Ironically it's a downgrade in braking capability from the iron 4 piston setup that came stock on that car.

>>28660022
people who run drag rotors on the street should be beaten senselessly.

>>28655983 (OP)
What the hell does Stone Cold Steve Austin know about brakes

>>28660022
That image is the best use of AI I've seen.
>Prompt - two idiots in a custom hotrod that burnt its brakes in the style of Edvard Munch

>>28659806
This.
ANY and ALL brakes would have failed at some point when trying to hold back a 1,300hp engine with a sticking throttle.
There was no brake "fault". They performed as expected and within normal parameters and more than likely surpassed the performamce/durability/longevity of 99% of /o/'s brake systems.
The fault was with the lack of return spring tension on the throttle linkage. That car would have never passed track inspection at even the most hillbilly dragstrip in the Ozarks.

People use willwood because they have a very wide range of bolt on kits that make upgrades ezpz. They're also decent quality. But they're not up to real race car abuse. Making calipers of the standard of Willwood isn't difficult and lots of no-name brands have started doing it over recent years.

>>28660305
>The fault was with the lack of return spring tension on the throttle linkage
No. The fault was the cretin who thought it was a good idea to drive a car with that problem on the public roads. He even acknowledged to his passenger the problem was there

>>28656595
bro those look like sub-300mm rotors
big brakes my ass

>>28655983 (OP)
And what makes two fixed calipers of the same piston count different from one another? Like for like, I assume the pad and disc would make a bigger difference than the caliper (assuming it doesn't fail, of course). Do the more expensive ones save a few grams of weight or something?

>>28655983 (OP)
>one large caliper
Bro, do you even brake...?

>>28660387
>save a few grams of weight or something?
Generally yes, but the bigger benefits are things like caliper rigidity, fitting larger and thicker pads, fitting a pad size that has many options for compounds, a shape that allows more airflow for cooling, and titanium faced pistons that help keep heat from getting to the fluid.

>>28660367
>$2 spring vs 10 years of hubris, who would win?!
You could make a flow chart out of everything that went wrong leading up to the crash.
I hope the owner wakes up in pain every day.

>>28659403
anon, all it has is a check valve that prevents air from entering and it only operates when you loosen the bleeder to actually bleed the brakes.

>>28660924
does air pass through the threads when you loosen them?

>>28661073
Do you understand how pressure works?

>>28661073
i dunno as i've never bothered with them. but it's nothing a bit of brake grease around the base of the bleeder threads can't fix.

>>28661073
>>28661112
It's the same as any other bleeder, just with a spring and ball inside.

I don't see the point because my power bleeder does all the work.
I bleed brakes on my race car every Track Day

>>28660924
I'm not fooling with it, the problem has already been solved, actually it was never even a problem to anyone except nu-males and wrenchlets

>>28661229
nobody said you have to but it's also nowhere near the problem you make it out to be. the failure condition of the valve would just result in it becoming a normal bleeder. it's kinda like how when an escalator stops working it just becomes stairs.

>>28661229
Low quality bait.

>>28661227
>I don't see the point because my power bleeder does all the work.
If you actual look at their advert (I had to because I'd never heard of them and, unlike some on 4chan, I have this odd affliction of actually wanting to know about something before I make a comment about it) you'll find that they point out that power bleeders work well and you don't need them. But a power bleeder costs a few dollars. They also comment that vacuum bleeders also work well, but for people who don't have or want either, speed bleeders give the ability for one person to bleed the brakes.

>>28661073
>does air pass through the threads when you loosen them?
No different to normal bleed nipples, I'd guess. In fact I doubt it, because it would prevent the check valve system being effective by allowing air to bypass it.

>>28661227
>I don't see the point because my power bleeder does all the work.
If you actual look at their advert (I had to because I'd never heard of them and, unlike some on 4chan, I have this odd affliction of actually wanting to know about something before I make a comment about it) you'll find that they point out that power bleeders work well and if you have one you don't need speed bleeders. But a power bleeder costs quite a few dollars. They also comment that vacuum bleeders also work well, but for people who don't have or want either, speed bleeders give the ability for one person to bleed the brakes.

>>28661073
>does air pass through the threads when you loosen them?
I doubt it, because it would prevent the check valve system being effective by allowing air to bypass it on the "up" stroke.

>>28660022
Best image ever, had to lol on the train.

>>28659794
he could've been running the church bell sized drums semis use, the result would have been the same, if you overheat the pads, shit doesn't brake

>>28661101
unless you use a pressurized brake bleeder, as soon as you let off the brake pedal there is no pressure, you dumb fucking wrenchlet faggot.

>>28661391
>>28661409
gravity bleeding chads just can't stop winning

>>28662254
I've never gotten gravity bleeding to work on any car.
Maybe something that worked on old 70s cars.

>>28662296
on all my 90s toyotas it just werked. the moment i cracked the bleeder open it was already pushing fluid out. had to be quick with the drain tube over the barb before it made a mess.
i dunno why it doesn't work for some people, because as long as the master is the highest point in the system gravity bleeding should be possible.

>>28662344
You sure your brake pedal wasn't just stuck slightly down?
I've had old Toyotas hold 10psi ish because the pedal doesn't go fully back or the master dmeont bleed out

>>28662397
definitely not. it still had a bit of play between the pushrod and the piston in the master. i actually fucked the bore by pushing the pedal too far during the bleeding. had to get it resleeved.

>>28662397
also,
>I've had old Toyotas hold 10psi
was that on a circuit that had drum brakes? sounds like it had a residual pressure valve

>>28656006
Dumbest shit i've read this week

>>28655994
That's what I did with the old 71 Nova I had in college. It came with 4 wheel, manual drum brakes. Wilwood made a drop-in front disc kit for the car that included a booster that plugged into one of the vacuum lines on a Holley carburetor. I think it was only like $1200 back in 2006 when I did it. Amazing upgrade for a street car.

>>28655983 (OP)
Factory brakes with new rotors and suitable compound pads are more than enough for 90% of street/track use applications.
If the brakes are powerful enough to lock up with good tires then the only other consideration are pads that can handle the heat for extended hard braking.

>>28659241
I've overheated brakes driving downhill in the mountains in a 2003 civic. I wasn't driving very fast but I was having some fun and I noticed they weren't stopping me so I had to pull over. It happens. I can't see it happening anytime other than going downhill though

>>28656006
xtreme troll post

>>28661409
>unless you use a pressurized brake bleeder, as soon as you let off the brake pedal there is no pressure, you dumb fucking wrenchlet faggot.
there is more pressure than in the atmosphere you retard

>>28664015
>$1200 in 2006 on a front break swap on a nova as a college student
My nigga was BALLIN

>>28660387
If the pistons are the same size and the distance of the pistons from the center of the hub are the same, there would basically be no difference.