Thread 28658040

>longevity (with the new batteries aka sodium-ion)
>reliable with less "things" to break
>fast as fuck

>>28658040 (OP)
>100% of the vehicle is JLR street shitting software
>low quantity production
>less to break
lol

>>28658040 (OP)
that's someone's AC, anon

the future is now. i see just as many ev's on the road than any other type of car, and on the roads all day working as a courier so i see a lot of cars.

>>28658040 (OP)
They may be the future but that's not necessarily a good thing

We're at the very beginning of the EV transition and already the infrastructure that supports ICEVs is starting to show cracks. Oil refineries shut down, resulting in massive supply shocks which spike gas prices, causing an even bigger shift to EVs. Buildings will be built with EVs in mind, and ban ICEVs. Gassoline Station deadzones will start to appear. This is the cycle of every technological change. Remember camera film? What would you do today if you had a film roll you needed to process? You can't just go to Walgreens anymore.

>>28658040 (OP)
EVs may be practical but holy shit are they boring

>>28658183
I'll just drive my dino car down to Long's Drugs then, right after I stop by Blockbuster.

>>28658040 (OP)
>are EVs really the future?

A spokeswoman for the governor, Erin Mellon, said that the request to avoid charging electrical vehicles has been misrepresented by critics of California's efforts to curb emissions. “We're not saying don't charge them,” she said. “We're just saying don't charge them between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.” 2022

>>28658040 (OP)
The electric motor as a primary mover is a fantastic idea. The battery is a shit idea for energy storage.

ev sales are crashing and burning the moment the gov stops handing out stolen money to homosexuals buying those cuckmobiles.

>>28658040 (OP)
>>reliable with less "things" to break
LMAO
they're constantly pumping more and more shit into them that can break.
sure, in their simplest form there could be less to break but again, there's so much shit they put into these that there absolutely is no advantage anymore.
on top of it cars get heavier and heavier still and they have to include all sorts of electric nannies that keep the damn pile of shit on the road and not understeer into a tree at 30mph.

>>28658396
That's an issue with modern car design and has nothing to do with EVs.

>>28658183
this anon launches flaming 1 ton batteries into the houses and businesses of innocent bystanders

>>28658399
>That's an issue with modern car design and has nothing to do with EVs

lmao this is your average Ev retards thought process

EV = nebulous concept in my peabrain head = reality = good

>>28658315
lol he said all of the hype words. 10 meme points to you kind sir. take my updoot

>>28658451
>the only way to get a metal engine in 20204
Hate it

>>28658304

Supercaps are a bit explosive. There’s not much else

>inb4 nuclear reactor

>>28658462
that's an EV, retard

>>28658315
It's not stolen money. Government spending creates money, taxes destroy money (same with private loans and repaying private debt, with interest being the remainder that survives in the economy).

A tax credit is simply money that wasn't destroyed.

>>28658480
they literally steal your money. and if you dont pay up they send armed goons to kill you

>>28658183
>What would you do today if you had a film roll you needed to process? You can't just go to Walgreens anymore.
I'd go to CVS instead.

>>28658506
>they literally steal your money
and in exchange you get to live in a country that doesn't look like somalia

>>28658451
You're misunderstanding. No one said it was "good". It's that it's not a problem BECAUSE it's an EV. It's a problem because it's a modern car. If you buy a gas car thinking it won't have those problems then you're going to be disappointed when you find out that it does because all modern cars do.

>>28658515
not really. looks pretty much the same

>>28658517
>You're misunderstanding.

I'm not misunderstand considering the EV is still 10x more burdensome than even general modern car quality

source: go talk to any dealership techs, insurance adjusters and body shops

>>28658183
>What would you do today if you had a film roll you needed to process?
Go to a local Max Spielmann? They're still common where I live and I don't see fuel stations going away any time soon either.

>>28658533
Okay then give me some examples of the things on EVs that are so unreliable.

>>28658040 (OP)
Idk does the military use ev's?

>>28658438
>Tyrese, give these niggas a volley

>>28658040 (OP)
>fast as fuck
Strictly speaking, the shitbox-equivalent EVs aren't really that fast, since they lack gearboxes.
Electric cars are reasonably fine for somebody not interested in wrenching and tuning. However you can't really get a cheap one, unless you buy used. In which case you have a decent selection, but a lot of them have shit range due to being early gen.

>>28658542
Yes, but they're of the one-way-explosive-birthday-present type, so not really sure they count.

You can tell EVs are winning the race just by the fact all of a sudden totally nobody cares about 0-60 times anymore, now its about muh emotion.

>>28658506
Taxes drive money, yes. But you don't have any money until the government spends it into existence. Because money is not a real resource, it's a state tool to direct real resources. You very well might have some real resources independent of government, but you don't have money until they spend it into existence. There is a clear and obvious injection/origin point.

>>28658568
It was the same thing with automatic transmissions. For decades people always commented on how slow "slushboxes" were and then when dcts hit the scene suddenly shifting times weren't important anymore

>>28658568
You can only see a tesla beat a lambo in a quarter mile so many times before you gifrel, especially since they won't ever mention half or full mile results.

>>28658040 (OP)
For China, yes. For America, no.
Data centers need all of your energy. Can't let you charge your EV for cheap. Better help paying your corporate tax.

>>28658473
Trains have just used a diesel generator for decades now and that's worked just fine. Maybe a system like that could work especially for commercial trucks. Passenger stuff it may be more difficult to package or just require a small engine like a Wankel just whizzing away.

>>28658040 (OP)
Governments are trying to force it but I don't think 100% EV usage makes any sense even if the electrical infrastructure exists to support it.

>>28658234
I don't get why it's so hard to make a fun EV. Is it because it's depressed mechEs being asked to do shit they don't want to? I imagine if ICE cars are your passion and you've been told by a suit it's time to EV you'll feel downright suicidal. Has anyone asked an ElecE to design one yet? You know someone who actually gets a kick out of electric shit? Get someone that loves playing with old power station transformers measured in the kilovolts or something like that photonicinduction guy from YT. He'll find a way to massively overvolt an engine and make it go real fast in a fun fuckin way.

They got a fucktonne of torque, that can be fun as fuck. You can do whatever the fuck you want with the weight distribution, keep it all low and central if you want, front load it, put it to the rear if you want I don't give a shit. It doesn't even have to be heavy if it's a track car and you only have to go 5 laps.

Is it the noise? ICE cars sound cool as fuck because we associate the sound with awesome raw power and we can infer shit about the engine from listening. Electric motors are efficient so they sound like shit, but it doesn't have to be that way. I used to be a filthy train rider and I remember an electric train I used to ride started off with this awesome deep bass note then had some sort of gearing that went progressively higher as it gained accellaration. Put that sort of shit in a supercar and people will actually believe it has power. Similar to this yellow one at the start of this vid: https://youtu.be/rpzoCDdDjnw?t=9

Kind of pissed off that the only "enthusiast" EVs are for insufferable rich twats, I remember I had an idea when I was in secondary school to get a beat up old beetle, shove an old lift motor in the back and fill the rest with lead acid batteries to see what it'd be like. Why is nobody doing that shit? Bet it'd be fun as fuck.

>>28658438
based

>>28658396
anon you're having a schizo meltdown. The prevalence of safety nanny shit has nothing to do with cars being heavier, it's because of retards writing regulations and dumbass karens who want a car they FEEL safe in despite refusing to put down their phones while driving. You can very easily take the barebones of what makes a modern EV and shove it into a shitbox without any of that shit and it will work just fine, you are angry at the state of the modern car industry.

>>28658533
>source: go talk to a bunch of fucking retards who are part of the problem

I've got one, works fine, fuck dealerships, fuck insurance companies, fuck you. Skill issue.

>>28658040 (OP)
Does it have a battery the size and weight of a 60l fuel tank, which you can also fully charge in under 5 minutes? Do the batteries also not degrade insanely fast? Does it have 500 km of range, no matter the weather/temperature? Does it have an open source operating system so you can install and disable whatever shit you want and the car can remain a car instead of a tablet on wheels? Cheap retrofit kits for old cars? No? Then they aren't and you can fuck off.

>>28659194
>but I don't think 100% EV usage makes any sense even if the electrical infrastructure exists to support it.
it doesn't currently, and mostly likely never will, but there will absolutely come a day when it's the default for any/all commuter appliance cars, because most people don't give a shit whether what they drive is electric or gas as long as it works. Right now a push for 100% EVs is pretty retarded considering there are tons of people driving around in new shitbox altimas or whatever who would be just as happy driving a hybrid which wouldn't require any special consideration on their part and would make a massive dent in emissions. There's honestly no reason for nearly every new car coming off the line these days to be some kind of hybrid, that's really where governments and manufacturers should be focusing. I say this as an EV owner and someone who likes them, hybrids ought to be the near-term goal, with a longer term transition to mostly electric, and enthusiasts can just drive whatever they want, because they're a small enough percentage that worrying about that is retarded.

>>28659232
I have noticed the governments seem to be reluctant to embrace hybrid majority as the end goal. All of them want to go straight for all electric. It's... suspicious.

>>28659231
>Does it have a battery the size and weight of a 60l fuel tank,
No, but it also doesn't have an engine or most of a traditional powertrain, so that's not really relevant to anything as long as it's functional and achieves what it needs to.
>which you can also fully charge in under 5 minutes?
no, but this isn't an issue for the way they're used in real life if you're not retarded
>Do the batteries also not degrade insanely fast?
yes
>Does it have 500 km of range
some do yeah, more will in the near future
>no matter the weather/temperature?
All vehicles are affected by these factors
>Does it have an open source operating system so you can install and disable whatever shit you want and the car can remain a car instead of a tablet on wheels?
No modern car has this, but people could definitely build it if they wanted to try hard enough. If you really care enough, you convert anything easily using off-the-shelf parts that are increasingly available and then the only software involved will be whatever you choose to put in it.
>Cheap retrofit kits for old cars?
some, yeah, though I guess cheap is relative and /o/tists are notoriously poor niggers on average so eh.

>>28659238
It's just politicians being retarded and pushing whatever they think has the best optics, most of them have no fucking idea what they're actually doing and don't care what actually makes sense. Democrats in the US push EV only future because that's what le hecking green movement says is good, in the same way that Republicans push gas only because that's what le dumb redneck voter block says they like. Neither side has any interest in what actually makes sense or would be good, and the vast majority of people don't give a shit and just want something that works and is convenient. It's all political theater.

>>28659238
Hybrids are just gas cars. No point in them.

>>28659250
Vast majority of peoples' daily driving would be entirely covered by the electric range on modern hybrids something like 90% of the time, if every gas car was replaced with a hybrid tomorrow, vehicle emissions would become basically a non-issue overnight.

>>28659253
It would be cut by 100% if it were EV.

>>28658040 (OP)
they were the future 100 years ago they are the future now and will be the future in 50 years but they are not the present

>>28659257
This just proves that EVs are going to take over. The roles are revered from when they were first introduced. Now it's the ICEV that's stagnant and the EV that's evolving fast.

>>28659256
correct, but there are a lot of actual real-world barriers to EV adoption to overcome currently outside of just "get everyone to buy an EV". Hybrids do not have that drawback, as they exist right now they are a drop-in replacement for almost every pure ICE use-case. We should be pushing EV availability for people who want them, but hybrid adoption for literally everyone who has a reason that EVs wouldn't currently work for them. It's just an easy win.

Where is this mythical location where a Hybrid works and an EV doesn't?

>>28658040 (OP)
No. I worked for an EV company and there are issues that you don't quite see.

>software
A nightmare, so much shit is fucked up because of shitty coding and bugs. A simple bug can completely brick the car or do weird shit like making the glovebox sealed shut (since some are electronically latched for fuck knows why). The majority of reliability issues are software related and they often aren't even commonly shared bugs, so the technicians have to try and figure out what is actually wrong with it, and most of the time just start throwing new modules at it when they can't figure it out through the software (50/50 on if replacement will even work either).

>build quality
Because of the battery and powertrain, plus all the techie shit on board, it means all the money went into that crap and not the overall build quality. So you get crappy plastic, shitty seats etc because all the money went on the tech and all the actual comforts had a tiny budget.

>charging
Every fucking public charging station is either broken or doesn't charge at high speed, usually it's with that classic "up to" shit like you'd see at a sale. My absolute recommendation is to have a home charger and use that exclusively, with public ones just being for topping up at best and never for relying on.

>>28659266
Anywhere internal combustion works but an EV doesn't

>>28659273
Hybrids use an electric motor and battery. So they have the same limitations as an EV.

>>28659268
Anon you can just say Tesla, they are the only "EV company" that has the issues you're describing, unless you worked for some literal vaporware scam company like Fisker. Tesla's problem is that it's Apple, but as a car company. EVs made by companies that aren't Tesla generally don't have those issues.

>My absolute recommendation is to have a home charger and use that exclusively, with public ones just being for topping up at best and never for relying on.
This is just common sense and is the advice literally every EV owner gives, because half the fucking convenience of an EV is never having to go to a gas station. People who buy EVs with the intention of treating it like a gas car and going out to a charging station every week are retarded.

>>28659266
Rentoids mostly. If you don't live somewhere with easy access to home charging, EVs can be a huge pain in the ass. Alternatively if you do a ton of road tripping and the areas you travel to don't have good charging infrastructure yet, it can kind of suck. Hybrids solve all of those issues.

>>28659266
Commercial fleets as well.
>>28659275
Now you're just being obtuse.

>>28659285
Commercial fleets benefit the most from EV.

>>28659285
EVs actually work really well for commercial fleets in a lot of cases, just depends on context. But because they can usually have their own dedicated charging infrastructure and just swap vehicles as needed, it tends to work out really well for them especially with the decreased maintenance costs. The Rivian Amazon trucks for example have been a huge success.

>>28658183
>We're at the very beginning of the EV transition
Nigger, we've been hearing this since 2018.
All that's changed since then outside of the Norwegian and Chinese command economies is that Tesla became a 20 P/S ratio meme and political chess piece, and that legacy automakers tried and are in the midst of spectacularly failing to copy them. The demand is gone, everyone is poor as fuck, zoomers don't even drive and the autistic ones that do practically venerate Japanese NA ICE shitboxes.

>>28659293
Yeah, it'll take decades. Why you acting like a 6 year old in the back of the car saying "are we there yet?"

>>28659293
>Nigger, we've been hearing this since 2018.
Anon, do you have any idea how slowly mass adoption of a new vehicle technology goes? We're gonna be at the very beginning of the transition for at least another 10 years, that's just how these things work.

>>28659293
this that nigga who insisted horses weren't going nowhere cause everyone didn't have a car 5 years after they were invented

>>28659293
battery tech from the late 2010s is pretty far behind modern standards. I would never buy a 6 year old tesla but 6 years from now i would have no problem buying a 2025 tesla

>>28659300
>>28659301
>>28659307
>>28659309
>Governments worldwide push EV only legislation by 2030-35
>Spike in early adopter and panic demand, concentrated almost entirely on one brand
>Fast forward 5 years
>Half the country now thinks you're lidderally hitler for driving this brand
>Wasn't popular with the other half to begin with
>Nobody buys the shittliy made $60,000 copycats from Cadillac, Acura, VW, etc; models get canceled after 1-2 years
>Two more weeks

>>28659276
>you can just say Tesla, they are the only "EV company" that has the issues you're describing
I wasn't with Tesla, but a different and very large EV company that has grown a lot in the last few years and will probably keep growing because of their pricing (and simply by not having the stigma of being Tesla).

>>28659314
so you think these companies will fail? Right when the economics of owning an EV is about to make sense for normal people?

>>28659319
>I wasn't with Tesla, but a different and very large EV company
There is no other very large EV company, unless you're a chink.

>>28659321
>so you think these companies will fail?
I don't think they'll fail but they will probably be forced to consolidate their model lineup. Sedans are kill but I think normies are getting increasingly sick of the three+ flavors of SUV from each brand, and of course there will always be an oddball/halo model that will come and go.
>Right when the economics of owning an EV is about to make sense for normal people?
kek

>>28658040 (OP)
>longevity
Mate, there are 50 year old W123s and Land Cruisers that still get regularly driven today. BEVs are the final boss of automotive planned obsolescence.

>reliable with less "things" to break
But when those things do break, the car is effectively totaled.

>fast as fuck
I'll give you that one but the supercar space is still dominated by gasoline cars.

>>28658040 (OP)
If I ever feel like getting cooked alive in my own vehicle with no way to escape or even be rescued I'll consider getting an EV

>>28659338
Pretty sure he is in Rivian.

>>28659339
>Sedans are kill
Says who? The auto industry goes through fads and SUVs are just the latest one.

>>28659268
>software
how about
and hear me out here for a second..
HOWABOUUT.. EVs being made like a normal fucking car with normal fucking parts? no need for spaceship full electronic bs, just a good ol' car but with a huge battery rather than an oily engine. NO more "update" as if it's a fucking phone
>charging
those new batteries will make you full charge in 5min (at least in 2030)
>build quality
yeah its so ASS, $50.000+ and it still feels cheap as fuck


I think that car manufacturers are just not ready to let go/adapt to this, its either a brand new companies or stick to what you're doing

>>28659360
can't wait for the late 60s-70s restylings of the 2030s/40s while also heeding lessons learnt from the 90s retro design fads

>>28659339
a brand new tesla with a LFP battery is rated for at least 300k miles, up to 500k miles if you dont let it drain 100-0 all the time. Sodium batteries are right around the corner and they're rated for 1 million miles. Why wouldnt normies pay a $10k premium for that

>>28659261
one day yes but its not close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDoPSofACAE

i personally am looking forward to hydrogen rotary cars no carbon fouling and optimised burn for power not emissions

>>28659355
Rivian's not big and they're expensive

>>28659558
hydrogen combustion engines are a fucking meme

>>28659571
yes but they will be a fun toy

>>28658040 (OP)
>joeover is the logo

>>28659319
Is it Kia? Though their EVs are supposedly very reliable.

>>28659588
Hyundai/Kia are making some of the best options right now yeah, but neither of them are an "EV company", they're just car manufacturers that have EV models.

>>28659321
"economics" that make sense for normal people. I dunno if you have been keeping up with current events, but everyone is getting laid off and everyone is barely able to keep up with rents and food.

>>28659600
A pure EV company? Not many exist. It can't be Polestar as it doesn't fit your description. Could be Chinese brand like BYD I guess.

>>28659604
I'm not the guy who claimed to work for whatever mystery EV company, so it's possible he's saying he worked for an EV company but actually just worked on the assembly line for like Ford or some shit, I'm just pointing out that the only companies that actually fit the description he gave are Tesla or chink startups.

>>28659345
With an ICE car you spread the cost of maintenance as long as you own it. You can also save money if you do your own work on it. With an EV you spend everything at once when the battery dies.

itt: ev fags who were so mongoloid to buy into the ev scam, falling for scammers like musk and are now seething and dilating because their shitcan lost 99% of its value the moment the got in the first time. ev fags are the crypto fags of the car world. literally trying to manifest a future that will never be because otherwise they are left to hold the bag. sad.

>>28658549
KEK

>>28659645
>Buy EV because it will last several times longer than a rube goldberg machine
>only critism the oil cucked sheep have is it can't be resold
Not running on all four burners, are you squirt. Probably from all the coal burning fumes. From both your car and your wife.

>>28659657
have fun replacing the battery, which is 80% of the car value, "squirt"

>>28659706
Have fun totaling your car because it couldn't pass SMOG.

>>28658183
>Oil refineries shut down
Yeah I wonder who could be behind that....

>>28658515
>doesn't look like somalia
Scandinavia, Minnesota, and Maine would disagree with you.

>>28658640
>For China, yes. For America, no.
They need to offset their carbon footprint with all the coal power plants they keep building. Funny how nothing is said about that except that brief spat with Greta Thunberg that was quickly memory-holed. Can't criticize the country corporations, Wall Street, and Democrats love with their sweet slave labor and zero rights that is funding Russia's war in Ukraine. Slave Ukraina, am I right?

>>28659243
>Republicans push gas only because that's what le dumb redneck voter block says they like.
It is the cheapest, most reliable option. If EV wasn't a scheme by the government and corporations to further control your freedom of movement but actually was cheaper, more reliable than gas then people wouldn't be opposed to it. It's none of those things. Unreliable garbage to further give the establishment more control over your life? No thank you.

>>28659902
>to further control your freedom of movement
???
>"fuel" can be obtained from numerous different sources, including in one's own homestead
>can replenish in the comfort and safety of said homestead, no need to regularly visit specialized distribution locations, where "disaffected social classes" often "mingle"

>>28659338
It's a Chinese company, but does operate in the US and has plenty of local offices.

>>28659366
>EVs being made like a normal fucking car with normal fucking parts?
They're essentially computers with wheels, the only normal car parts on them is the suspension. Computers and their modules all have their own software and require patching, and EVs are no different. Sometimes the updates improve efficiency and range, but most of the time they just cause bugs and fuck some shit up.

>those new batteries will make you full charge in 5min (at least in 2030)
You can have the fastest charging battery on Earth but that doesn't mean anything if the charging stations won't push that much power. Like I said, a lot of charging stations will go "up to" their stated wattage but in my experience, they never do and always have some shitty slow charge. Maybe you'd be able to achieve it at 1am when there's no pressure on the grid, but good fucking luck during regular daytime hours.

>yeah its so ASS, $50.000+ and it still feels cheap as fuck
Until stuff like the batteries and drivetrains get really cheap, build quality will keep being ass. The other issue is the weight, those batteries weigh a massive amount and it becomes the balance of the weight vs battery size for getting more range. One way they try to cut that down already is lightweight plastic, which makes things even more cheap and shitty.

>forget to pay for the newest drive_car dlc
>elon turns off your car

>>28659902
Gas is massively subsidized by the government using your tax dollars retard

>>28659919
There is nothing about an EV that requires more computerization than any ICE vehicle made in the last 40 years. The problems you're describing are invented by the manufacturers who insist on shoving tons of useless nanny tech into the car, you can very much just shove an electric powertrain into a car with a BMS and a couple of switches hooked up for acceleration/braking and leave it at that if you want to, there are a billion youtube videos of people doing exactly that with EV conversions. You're stuck on this idea that EVs necessarily require way more computerization than already exists in cars because you're retarded.

>>28658530
>>28659893
I live all of 5 minutes from one of the poorest, most dangerous neighborhoods in the country. It might look like downtown Mogadishu there, but just up the road where I live the streets are well maintained and lined with million dollar mansions.

>>28660013
Governments that create their own money don't "use" tax dollars to "pay" for things. Spending is independent from revenue (that's why they can spend to a deficit in the first place).

Government spending creates/issues new money (and bank loans create deposits). Taxation destroys money (as does paying off debts). So when governments give tax breaks to oil companies or tax incentives to EV buyers, they are just not destroying money.

>>28658040 (OP)
>Trying to praise electrics
>Use a car that killed a company
Troll thread methinks

>>28658396
>>28658399
EVs would be kinda cool if they weren't made so gay ngl

>>28658040 (OP)
>fast as fuck
this is actually a problem, we need the 90hp shitboxes out there so retards and the elderly can't get in as much trouble.

>>28658515
>The mob boss gives you a cheap frozen turkey for Christmas, therefore he never did any crime ever

>>28660423
perhaps stop electing overtly corrupt mafia wannabes

>>28659256
It would also be cut by 100% if you killed yourself

>>28659319
Rivian?

>>28660442
That anon works/worked for Lucid, I am pretty sure.

>>28659911
>Mandatory GPS and computer systems dictate if it works or not

>>28660433
You think they get in place because of elections?

>>28660448
I thought lucid was Saudi owned?

>>28660464
Explicitly, yes.
60% of Americans don't vote.

>>28660585
Vote for mobsters?

>>28660628
Our current President and his family have direct ties to the Russian mafia through their real estate dealings. Just an example.

>>28660193
okay, using a combination of YOUR tax dollars and YOUR savings by way of inflationary spending then, retard

>>28660404
That piece of shit concept didn't kill Jaguar, they were already dead when they pulled that stunt.

>>28659293
>Autistic ones that do practically venerate japanese na shitboxes
STOP GANGSTALKING ME AND MAZDA YOU FUCKING GLOWTARD AAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>28658396
This is actual delusion. You can dislike EVs but there is absolutely less things that can break, fail, malfunction.

>>28661897
It's never enough for retards on this board to just say "I don't like them" they have to invent retarded reasons in their heads to justify it and pretend that every modern car isn't 100% computer controlled regardless of powertrain. Ultimately they're just making it obvious that they're retarded faggots who don't know dick about cars.

>>28660663
>He swallowed some lead, therefore the bullet in his skull is irrelevant

>>28659307
So true

>>28659307
>>28662346
that was from a webcomic made in 2014.
http://www.marriedtothesea.com/index.php?date=112914

>>28662346
>>28662351
Here's an actual ad from that era.
Fun fact: The McLaughlin Carriage Co. eventually switched to making automobiles, just like current automakers are switching to EVs.

>>28662360
huh, they ended up becoming gm canada, interdasting.

>>28659314
>half the country
>other half
The vast majority of americans are not the directionbrained retards who post on twitter, most people will just drive whatever works and seems like a good deal to them.

>>28658040 (OP)
>literally a tranny thread
Reign makes an energy drink called Sour gummy Worm.
It has the trans colors on it.
The taste is putrid and foul like a rotten flesh wound.
The connection is obvious.

I find it funny myself.

>>28658289
>things I said were going to happen on /g/ 13 years ago

>>28662820
predicting that california will be run by retards is like predicting the sun will rise

>>28659214
There’s always going to be something special, bordering on magical with mechanical things. A rumbling v8 or a Swiss watch. Yes the gay Tesla is better on paper at certain things, and the timex digital watch is way more accurate than a Rolex, but they’re devoid of any soul.

Maybe the problem with ev’s are that the people designing them see them as appliances (which you kinda allude to); but there’s no way you can combine a few batteries, a cpu, and some electric motors and have it feel as “alive” as a carburetated v8. Techfags absolutely miss the point when it comes to such things, and humanity suffers now that they sorta control everything.

I hate battery cars so much it's unreal.

>>28663624
It's just buzzwords: the post. A V8 is not "alive". A Rolex doesn't have "soul. Like it or not

>>28663689
Goyslop consumer detected.
Yes more buzzwords. But I have to ask, why are you on this board to begin with?

>>28663689
technology-has-no-soul-fags have no soul themselves
machines have more more soul than most people. if you don't see it, perhaps you're one of them. an empty husk not far off a machine yourself.

>>28663689
This. I wish I had an electric car, so I could make it defrost itself in winter and I can run the AC all day long in summer without being ticketed for idling.

>>28663692
Because I like cars. But I hate dumb people more and I like calling them out. Someone so opinionated on something should be able to articulate why. Even if it's just "I like the way it sounds". That's valid. "It has soul". That's not.

>>28658040 (OP)
They are. But not in a way your typical american consumer expects it to be. Popularity of e-mopeds amongst younger generations is a marker.

>>28664054
because i find highly complicated, mechanical, intricate things made by the hand of man to be fascinating and beautiful. And yes a v8 sounds fucking awesome.
i mentioned the rolex; if you think about how much craftsmanship went into creating it, calcalating the gearing, the layout, the timing, it's a minor miracle it works. Compare that to a timex, a bit of logic on a circuit board, a chunk of quartz, and a battery. They are not the same thing, at all.
Same with an ICE powered car vs an EV. I'll concede that the EV will eventually be the better option as a transportation appliance, but driving as an experience is cheapened.
if you can't understand what i'm getting at, i don't know what to tell ya, we're just different. and that's okay.

>>28664139
they dont drive real mopeds but cuckmobiles that dont need helmets, driver licence and are cheap

>>28658040 (OP)
Nope. They have several issues that completely doom them long term.
Most importantly is the amounts of people they will go through over time. From the perspective of an American buying a car with borrowed money it's not something you even think about, but I remember writing a paper on EVs in public transport and there was an interesting thing I've discovered.
The frame of a bus, ICE or electric can realistically last 35 years in cities where you put salt on the roads. This doesn't mean let's say Berlin or Warsaw will buy a bus and use it for 35 years, they usually lease it for 7 or 8, then it's resold to a lower tier city and then they resell it to even lower tier city and it usually ends its life there. Improved longevity of sodium batteries is still not enough to keep them running for 35 years like that and this means this entire chain becomes unviable(batteries are about a third to a half of electric bus price).
Cars aren't massively different, except they get moved to different countries as the time progresses. German-bought car is brought to Poland or Romania when it's about 10 years old, from there it stays in Poland for the next 10 to 15 years until it's sold to Ukraine, Belarus or Africa/middle east(depending on its state). The fact that it's being bumped down like that means that for it to remain in this chain, it has to be viable for all these different countries(otherwise the German knows that the Polish guy will lowball him and the Pole knows that the easterners or Africans will lowball him when reselling). In an american suburb, the EV will be perfectly fine. In a commieblock district it's virtually unusable and those commieblocks will stand for 100 years(the oldest are from the late 1950's newest are from the 1990's), because it's too expensive to get rid of them. The buses at least have depots so that's not a consideration, but the long term economy of EVs will cause oversupply in rich countries that they won't be able to get rid of.

>>28658040 (OP)
>Less things to break
>Car is so heavy that hitting a pothole in the winter when the roads are still covered and slushy broke a suspension arm
It took 4 weeks for the dealership to replace it

>>28658506
>they literally steal your money. and if you dont pay up they send armed goons to kill you
Taxes are necessary evil you cannot live without.

>>28664171
I could live with taxes not used against me

>>28664146
Wow it's incredible what happens you use both your brain and words at the same time instead of regurgitating memes like a parrot or instagram reels commenter.

>>28664162
I'm Romanistani, and I've recently started seeing more and more 2nd hand electric cars (lots of Teslas, but some other brands as well) specifically because used prices have cratered in the West.
Remember that we do not believe in regulations or safety, so doing shit like running a 100' extension cord, from the balcony of our commieblocks to the public parking below, is considered perfectly normal and fine.

>>28664217
Yes, but there are limits to that. If it's a very dense commieblock neighbourhood then the 100 meter cord will turn into 500 meter cord just in case if you didn't find a parking spot nearby.
As I've said, an electric car as we know it as a product is built around the American market which isn't surprising but it also means there's a lot of tradeoffs that will make it economically unviable. Of course it doesn't mean there won't be EV transition, the governments want it and they'll crater their economies to achieve it, it's just that a lot more people won't have a car at all in let's say 50 years from now.

>>28664254
>an electric car as we know it as a product is built around the American market
I'd argue for the contrary. Electric cars are a poor fit for the US, with its large travel distances. Especially combined with the domestic charging issues caused by low mains voltage (requring not-exactly-cheap adaptations like phase-combined sockets and special plugs). They're much better suited for Europe and China, where population is more densely-packed, resulting in shorter trips.

>>28664162
Battery longevity is increasing every generation, and it will always be possible to swap to a new battery for Toyota EVs.

The issue is previous and current gen shit EVs with terrible range and degradation will probably have to be scrapped and the battery sent to be recycled.

>>28664311
Ironically, one of the easiest to upgrade electric cars is the Nissan Leaf, specifically because its architecture is so primitive.

>>28664279
Yes, but to charge them from your own house you need to, well, have a house. The commieblocks were built when it was assumed every other household will have a car one day(sometimes even every fourth) and the parking spots in their districts are limited. Households have more than one car on average(some of the ex communist countries approach 3). This is also combined with local governments heavily clamping down on parking space in cities and that's both eastern and western europe, so it'll either be all about really large underground parkings under the newbuilt blocks, making all apartments more expensive, suburban sprawl mirroring America(in which case the same range anxiety will show up) or just going back to the times when not everyone has a car.

>>28664311
>Battery longevity is increasing every generation, and it will always be possible to swap to a new battery for Toyota EVs
I heavily doubt you'll ever have the same batteries for the entirety of a cars lifecycle(circa 30-35 years as mentioned) and the moment you have to swap batteries you may as well buy another used car.

>>28664353
>Yes, but to charge them from your own house you need to, well, have a house.
People who have streetside parking can charge them from streetlights. European streetlights use 400V three-phase AC, so all you need to do is install a pretty basic 16A 11kW charger module (some cars can charge at up to 22 kW AC, but it's rare) into the post. Also, since Europeans carry their own cables, the risk of metal thieves cutting off the charging cable is reduced (as long as people remember to pack it up in the evening). Plus, even if it's cut off, the charger itself can still be used once the vestigial jack is removed from the socket.

>>28658040 (OP)
Too bad all the EVs I've seen are faggy smartphones on wheels. The only electronics I want are the ECU, and I don't want that backdoored or phoning home. Otherwise me give a 1990s car interior.

>>28664171
>you cannot live without.
well yeah, cause if you don't pay them they kill you

>>28664254
>it's just that a lot more people won't have a car at all in let's say 50 years from now.
This is how it should be, forcing every retard to have a car just so they can go across town to get groceries makes everyone's lives worse. In an ideal world, having a car would be totally unnecessary for the retarded masses who just want to sit in their houses doing nothing most of the time and take the bus to work and shit. Cars should be for people who like cars.

This is the thing that the autistic retards on this board can't seem to comprehend, getting more people off the road is better for enthusiasts, but in spite of this they are stuck in this retarded mindset of
>I will oppose any and all public transport because I love cars so I love sitting in gridlock traffic going nowhere all day every day in my dogshit cuckover shitbox designed by committee to appeal to middle aged women

>>28664279
>Especially combined with the domestic charging issues caused by low mains voltage (requring not-exactly-cheap adaptations like phase-combined sockets and special plugs).
This is a non-issue. The vast majority of people can get by just fine with level 1 charging like 99% of the time, and installing a 240V outlet is a minor inconvenience at worst for anyone with a steady job.

>>28664474
>This is how it should be, forcing every retard to have a car just so they can go across town to get groceries makes everyone's lives worse. In an ideal world, having a car would be totally unnecessary for the retarded masses who just want to sit in their houses doing nothing most of the time and take the bus to work and shit. Cars should be for people who like cars.
This will force a return to pre-Model T paradigm, with cars being niche luxuries for richfags and everyone else having to take public transit. I don't know about you, but I think a world where every new car costs as much a Ferrari would fucking suck, actually.

>>28664586
you're retarded if you actually believe this. The infrastructure and industry for mass car manufacturing and use exists now, there will always be large scale car production because it's too convenient to have as an option not to. The problem isn't with lots of people having cars, it's with EVERYONE absolutely NEEDING a car. It's not feasible to have every single person in every city driving everywhere, there's not enough space on the roads already and populations are still growing. If half of all people currently driving cars switched to walking or using public transit most of the time because they lived somewhere it was possible, there would still be plenty of people who chose to drive because they could afford it and they want to. You'd mainly just be getting all the retarded altimaniggers who can't afford their shitboxes anyway off the road.

>>28664413
Ok and they're going to charge them for free like that great idea your city council wants to know your location.

>>28664721
Wanna try that sentence again, Ramjeet?

>>28664721
Well, anon, see, there's this thing called a charging app you use when connecting to a station.
Though I guess this sort of technology isn't that common in Guatemala.

>>28658183
>which spike gas prices
Lol it's 2.54 a gallon rn

>>28658040 (OP)
yes because using less gas kills the saudis and that makes me happy

>>28664826
Lol, all that really does is make gas cheaper for africans.

>>28664311
>increasing every generation
Lol you monkey. I've been using smartphones since 2011.
Battery life has only got worse.

>>28665316
that's not due to battery chemistry and/or manufacturing anon, that's due to jeets refusing to optimize anything and just shitting out garbage, bloated code.

>>28665316
Don't equate top end EVs with your chink shitphone, ok? The latest Model 3s have WLTP range of 750km. A huge upgrade compared to five years ago.

>>28665319
>>28665350
>iPhones are jeet coded chink shitphones
comeonnow.jpeg

>>28665373
Yes now you're learning.

>>28658040 (OP)
probably, as infrastructure improves. but my main issue with them, and most modern cars, is that they all connect to the internet

imagine a security vulnerability that gets exploited. these teslas have a lot of horsepower, what if every tesla connected to the internet went full throttle at the same time for, say 10-30 seconds and then the steering wheels all turned to the left

every one of these internet connected vehicles should have an easy to press kill switch that cuts power to everything.

the only way i'd buy an EV is if it had extremely simple electronics, no wireless anything cell, wifi bluetooth etc

>>28665418
Why does any car, EV appliance or not NEED an internet connection or OTA updates????
That should be a huge red flag. It’s basically the manufacture weaponizing hardware that you purchased, against you for whatever purpose. It’s almost certainly not in your best interest

>>28665534
>internet connection
Quite useful for checking battery level, switching charging on/off, or pre-heating/pre-cooling your car.

>OTA updates
That's mainly because you can no longer update them via SD card or USB stick (although I think some models still have USB as an emergency backup in case the OTA fails). Tesla are, once again, mega-retarded for locking down your car in case an update fails. Worse, some other manufacturers have copied them.

>>28665350
My 20yo econobox has range of around 700 on full tank.
It doubles if I put two standard jerry cans into the trunk,said trunk can fit around 8 of them.
Refueling takes like 20 minutes using said jerry cans.
And I dont have to worry about rocks piercing the gas tank and making me burn alive.

>>28659253
I really don't understand why we don't see more cars like the chevy volt. It uses an ICE generator with an electric drivetrain, similar to how locomotives work
Battery covers day to day short commuting distances, gas engine gives extended range and provides power to the electric drivetrain when the battery is drained.
It's not like this shit is rocket science, diesel electric trains have existed for a long ass time now.

>>28665851
probably because most people don't actually take extended drives all that often, so they figured it was a waste having two powertrains

>>28665350
>>28665632
Driven a few EVs for work
300km means its basically permanently plugged into the charger. Not bad for a beater, but its annoying since you quickly burn 160-180km to drive to the next town over, and that might be feasible after driving around the operating area for a day.
Its workable, but its annoying.

Sub 200km means you can't drive it over to the next town if the conditions are not perfect. Also with 200km range, it rapidcharges slowly. Its fine if you go there, and there is a depot you can leave it in to slow charge, but its not fine if you are actually using it the next town over.
That means its a shitty commute car.

At 400km it starts being possible to run a taxi service, but you will have to do unneeded rapidcharging.
At 500km its actually possible to run a taxi service. 2 shifts of ~200km + night of charging at 11kwh or 22kwh
The big question are when the cheaper cars with batteries is going to have 700km range, since that is the point where you can seamlessly drive for a day, and then you rapidcharge while having lunch to extend the total to 1100km++++.

>>28665851
>>28665878
Toyota is selling a lot of cars with the 2ZR-FXE and similar drivetrains. Which is essentially THAT. And Toyota is still the biggest car OEM.
You can buy a brand new Toyota Noah as a van, with that engine configuration.

While GM has trouble with the idea that their amazing engine system could just be upscaled and put into a larger Truck for a lot more MPG and significantly better performance.
So they made two car models, and discontinued, due a lack of competitive pressure.

>>28665851
There's just honestly not a ton of benefit to that style of drivetrain for most personal vehicle use cases. For trains the reasons for doing electric drive with diesel generators has to do with regulating power output since you can rectify the output of the generators into consistent electric power delivery to the wheels and on the scale of trains that offers a ton of benefit over straight diesel ICE power, less so for a personal vehicle.

Full electric drivetrains on battery power with range-extender generator engines do exist for personal vehicles but they're not super common for a few reasons. First is that at the point you've made a full electric vehicle, adding the complexity of an engine into the mix is often seen as not worth the effort over just adding some more battery capacity, it's just added manufacturing cost and extra maintenance for the end user so unless there's a very good reason to need that setup, most people don't want to deal with it. Second is the fact that you get a very similar end result with just a traditional hybrid electric powertrain that's already super common in the industry, and so companies are already set up for manufacturing that type of vehicle, the cost and logistics of developing new tooling and manufacturing processes just wouldn't really be worth it to achieve basically the same thing as far as most consumers are concerned.

I do think that as full electric vehicles become more and more common in the future we may see a an upsurge in range-extended electric drivetrain truck models, since that's one use case where I can see a clear strong benefit over the "just add more batteries" approach. For people who actually use their trucks for truck shit like long haul towing, having full electric power and torque with the flexibility to just load up a gas tank and add hundreds of miles of range when needed while taking advantage of features like regenerative braking would be insanely useful.

>are EVs really the future?
Yes, but the future is not now. We’re at the “Model T” phase of the EV progress right now. 50 years from now, most EVs can go for +1,000 miles on a single charge and most people will charge at home for free thanks to dirt cheap home solar/battery system. But in the meantime, enjoy inhaling smog while you still can.

>>28658040 (OP)
idk, but I want my EV's too look like this in the future, not whatever the fuck Elon makes.

Should I buy a 2021/2022 tesler model 3 for $35k with under 100k km, or a 2024 model 3 for $55k with under 40k km?
For reference, a brand new 2025 model 3 costs $64.5k where I live.

>>28667201
The used ones are a better bargain if it's just daily driving. The refresh has better range and better acceleration but it's not that much better. Also consider a 2019-2020 Model S. They're only a few grand more and way nicer. You do miss out on some stuff added in the later years but the car itself is miles better

>>28667201
Are you sensitive to road noise? Supposedly the later models made big gains in that field.

>>28667169
God bless Hyundai, those gooks are the only ones actually fucking trying

>>28667201
>Should I buy a 2021/2022 tesler model 3 for $35k with under 100k km, or a 2024 model 3 for $55k with under 40k km?
Are you retarded, Hyundai literally just announced their next model of Ioniq 5 will be starting at $35K brand new and every other manufacturer is racing to undercut each other since the EV tax credit went away. Why the fuck would you spend more than that on a used dogshit build quality bottom-tier model modern tessie?

>>28667359
I'm not American. Hyundai EVs are more expensive than teslers where I live for some reason (Tesla can bring in cars directly without going through a dealership, unlike every single other carmaker, which makes teslers relatively cheaper). We also have a general shortage of Ioniqs so they have an inflated price even in the used market.
I should also mention that enol is offering a limited deal of 0% interest full loan on teslers (payments will slightly increase though when our CPI increases). This mean I could buy a brand new model 3 for 10k + $733 x 72 payments, which will probably be $770 x 72 on average in the worst case. This one is REALLY tempting.
>>28667219
I'm just commuting twice a week to the office, 120km x 4 = 480km a week. That includes the occasional stop at the grocery store or the odd shop, I always do those in the commute days.
>>28667220
My current Suzuki beater is basically a tin cage on a moped so anything is an improvement.

>>28667393
>10k + $733 x 72 payments
holy kek, wtf are you doing nigger

>>28667393
>I'm not American
then just buy some chinese shit

>>28667394
Again, this is not America or Europe. Cars literally cost twice what they should because of import taxes. Divide the numbers by 2 if it makes it easier on you. I gave an example of $64.5k for a brand new base model 3 in the original post as reference.
>>28667395
That's what everyone here does, but I don't trust that trash.

>>28667401
Just say what retarded beaner country you're from already, faggot

what about a used EV?
I'm against e-waste and like keeping vehicles on the road.