Thread 28701844

What went wrong?

/o/ logic:
EVs are le meme
Hydrogen will actually take over

California threatened to ban Toyota from selling cars unless they sold zero emission vehicles. Toyota could either take the L or leave the largest car market in the US. In retrospect they should have just rebadged Teslas or bought Nissan for the Leaf.

>>28701844 (OP)
It's a meme technology that was simply sold by car manufacturers as a way to delay EV migration and throw legislators off.

hyrdrogen makes sense if you don't understand the logistics of it's production, transportation, and storage

>>28702021
Yes. It has all the same problems of electricity as a fuel. It doesn't exist in nature so you have to make it by doing something else, always burning or in the case of hydrogen reforming a hydrocarbon.

It is all hydrocarbon fuel but less convenient and more fire prone. Everyone knows how dangerous electric car fires are but hydrogen is so small it leaks through metal. It leaks out while like electricity having no intrinsic benefit over gasoline.

>>28702028
>acting like they're one and the thing when the EV transition is fully underway (even your precious legacy ICE autos are getting on board) while hydrogen died in its crib
Actual flat earth levels of delusion.

>>28701954
Honda rebadging the GM isnt looks silly now

>>28702059
>toyota makes the LFA
>it’s a huge waste of money and fails to make the Lexus brand cool
>honda makes the hybrid nsx
>ev motor technology trickles down to their other cars and becomes the blue prints for hybrid sports cars for the industry
>toyota invest in hydrogen hoping to avoid ev
>another huge waste of money that has now blown up in their face
>honda partners up with GM to get bev out platforms without having to waste billions in R&D of their own
>toyota makes awd performance cars like the gr Yaris/corolla
>they overheat and explode
>honda makes awd performance cars
>everyone says SH-AWD doesn’t understeer nor does the twin turbo engine overheat or explode


Honda just dabs in Toyota at absolutely everything.

>>28702115
Honda doesn't have Goyota's normalfag pass so they must actually perform. Never opt for the brand all the normalfags are wanting - it simply results you paying in excess for a high demand product.

>>28702264
>Honda doesn't have Goyota's normalfag pass
Are you living under a rock? Goyoda and Goyda are both the goto brands if you want something reliable and will last years for normies. Throw in Goyuru for the lesbians and you have the asian trifecta

The only issue with Hydrogen. Is storing it safely and building infrastructure durable enough to store it at fueling stations.

Think about it, if you had giant reserves filled underneath and had 1 mishap then congratulations you've unlocked a big explosion. Besides that Hydrogen is superior because you can convert ICE cars to Hydro far easier than converting to EV

>>28702057
Tbh hydrogen is a lot less gay than electric
>acting like superstraight is a thing when the homo transition is in full swing
No thanks m8, not for me.

>>28701844 (OP)
>What went wrong?
H2 remains expensive, fuel cost are higher than for a conventional ICE even in the most expensive european markets. The cars themselves are also expensive. Fuel stations are both expensive and low-capacity (if you're the third one to refuel there you may have to wait for their compressor to get the intermediate tank back up to its target), so that there's very few of them. Hydrogen is an absolute bitch to store, it's either cryogenic or 400/800 bar, either of which is high-efford. Hence why fuel stations suck and cost insane sums to build and maintain. Despite all the efford, the fuel tanks in the Mirai are ENORMOUS and yield a pretty meh range. That barge has less trunk space than a Corolla hatchback.

I got to drive a Mirai once and got to say it felt like a nice car, if with 0 sporty attitude. But it also felt rather cramped inside because of the tanks, had no trunk and eye-watering purchase and operating cost.

A gasser or diesel work better and cost less, an EV can at least be charged at home for a reasonable price. These are expensive as fuck and dependent on rare infrastructure without any crazy special skill.

>>28702347
>choosing the car with zero means of refueling
Sounds homo, you're clearly a fag and a tranny.

>>28702016
This.

>>28701844 (OP)
>mirai made 5.7 billion dollars let alone did that much in damages
Sure thing buddy.

>>28702474
That's not how lawsuits work lmao. You sue for damages, not exact value. People who bought the Mirai were buying into the hydrogen market which Toyota promised to expand. They never did. Those people made a decision that left them with a horribly deprecated car that virtually can not be sold outside of california and the price of hydrogen in california has gone through the roof.

>>28701954
I mean they did just that, the 2nd gen Rav4 EV was basically the guts of a Tesla Model S in a Toyota shell. Really not sure why Toyota's leadership is this deranged about EVs.
>>28702353
Also compared to either an electric or ICE car it's ridiculously inefficient. In practice ICE cars only convert 20-40% of their fuel's energy into useful energy but their fuel is ridiculously easy to store and transport compared to hydrogen and both the infrastructure and technology have over a century of development behind them.
Electric cars are extremely energy-efficient, they convert 70-90% of the energy in their batteries into useful motion. Their infrastructure is less developed than that of ICE cars but it is literally just hook it up to le grid at the end of the day.
Hydrogen cars have neither of these advantages.Their fuel first needs to be created (usually as a byproduct of fossil fuel production), then stored (usually cryogenically, or under super high pressure, both of which take energy), and then transferred to the car all of which have a lot of losses along the way. It's expensive, inefficient, and requires a ton of investment to be even remotely useful. It sucks dick. It sucks a ridiculous amount of dick.

>>28701954
Honestly they should have just exited California and launched an AD campaign with the prius with the caption "Not good enough for street shitters"

>>28701844 (OP)
Actively sabotaged by greenwashing and commie ev subsidies.
Hydrogen was our only hope forward.

Who would have thought something needing to be a highly compressed gas and the assache of filling your car up with said compressed gas would not go over well...

Propane is enough of a pain in the ass that hardly anyone uses it anymore. Sloshing a liquid fuel into your vehicle is about as easy as it can get.

>>28702931
propane bringing the proPAIN

OH NO NO NO NO GOYOTA SHILLS MALDING

https://electrek.co/2025/11/03/hydrogen-mafia-toyota-faces-5-7-billion-rico-lawsuit/

That RICO statute is now at the center of a new case against Toyota. In it, the plaintiff’s attorneys argue that Toyota knowingly engaged in a decade of fraud surrounding the hydrogen fuel cell-powered MIrai sedan that jeopardized public safety and breached the terms of a previous DOJ settlement.

The case, filed by Jason M. Ingber, lead attorney for the plaintiffs in the US District Court for the Central District of California, is a 142-page RICO complaint alleging that Toyota, its financing arm, and its California dealerships coordinated conspired to market and finance HFCEVs that technicians allegedly referred to as, “ticking hydrogen bombs.”

“This lawsuit isn’t about a simple defect, it’s about organized fraud,” argues Mr. Ingber. “Toyota engineered, financed, and controlled California’s hydrogen network, then used that control to hide safety failures and financial harm to consumers.”

>>28702021
Hydrogen makes sense because it solves the biggest issue electric cars have, charging time. The problem is that there's no infrastructure for this stuff, so it's a moot point how fast you can fuel it up if there's only about 2 hydrogen stations within a hundred miles of you.

>>28702115
The NuSX was an ugly piece of shit where the designers clearly had no idea what made the original good. It sold like shit and no one shed a tear when it died. Honda hasn't released a serious sports car since the S2000. FWD riced Civics don't count.
While Toyota hasn't made a sports car either since the MR2 was discontinued, at least they kept selling them even if they were just Subarus and BMWs. Honda cant even do that.
Also the new Prelude is ugly as sin proving Honda can't design a good looking new car to save their life. Guaranteed it's going to have an auto slush box and be the second coming of the CRZ, disappointing everyone who hoped for something better.

>>28702917
bait

>>28702993
It really didn't, electric is already beating it.

>>28703031
Your fucking retarded. Once we crack hydrogen there is no beating it. It has the highest amount of energy by weight without going full nuclear.
Enjoy carrying 500lbs of batteries to provide the same amount of energy as 7lbs of hydrogen.
Hydrogen can act as an EV, it can also act as a soulful combustion engine but with truly zero emissions.

>>28702115
I had a Honda push mower for years that was awesome, I'd like to buy from them.
My requirements include a clutch pedal and rwd. My options are:
Pay entirely too much for a very old s2000 or
Pay even more for an even older NSX or
Motorcycle
I'll also need a BOF trugg to replace the wife's eventually, she's got almost 270k on her f150 now. But Honda has zero entries in that category ever afaik.
So I guess maybe I'll buy a Honda motorcycle someday, but then I always seem to wind up with a Kawasaki when it comes time to buy a Japanese bike.

>>28703002
Hey dipshit, this is about which company was successful in their engineering endeavors, not what broke niggers on /o/ think is “good” or not. The nsx also outsold the LFA so I’m not sure why you think that was even worth bringing up. Anyone can suck at everything then simply rebadge someone else’s car.

The civic type r is more serious than something that blows its engine going over the speed limit. Toyota sucks at everything other than the basic bitch Corolla.

>>28701844 (OP)
Should have bought battery EVs lmao.

>>28702336
Same with gasoline. Thats not the problem exclusive with hydrogen. The problem exclusive with hydrogen is that the element is pourous, which means it leaks all the time because its the smallest element in nature and cannot be trapped. So when it leaks from the containers, it makes those containers brittle, which leads to structural failure of the containers.

>>28703118
Batteries are even more dangerous and loses energy over weeks if left sitting, yet for some reason we invested in that instead of hydrogen.

>>28703121
Hydrogen gets more money from federal gov per year and for longer (more than 30+ years of constant funding) than batteries. People chose batteries EV because battery EVs work. Hydrogen doesn't.

>>28701844 (OP)
lmao these cars piss. I want to drive one to tailgate people and then piss in front of them then 360 degrees and drive away

>>28702389
Dual fuel petrol/hydrogen is easy enough. Not really any different from an LPG conversion.
Why are you so keen to accuse others of homosexual acts and transvesticism?

>>28702527
>Electric cars are extremely energy-efficient, they convert 70-90% of the energy in their batteries into useful motion.
This is a misunderstanding. The fuel for an electric car is at the power station. One must take account of power station efficiency and transmission losses to the vehicle. I looked into this and they work out pretty similar unless you have extremely cheap electricity. In high cost electricity countries like Britain the electricity is less efficient before tax. It is only that excise duty is charged on petrol and not on electricity that makes electricity cheaper. Also very substantial electric-only tax benefits. Would be nothing more than a curiosity otherwise, not a consumer choice.

>>28703142
Why are you a tranny?

>>28703129
>People chose batteries EV because battery EVs work. Hydrogen doesn't.
Battery EVs are dropping in value fast and millions are sitting in giant parking lots unsold.
People didn't choose them at all.
But it was quite convenient to kill off any remaining hydrogen development and stop it from gaining traction.

>>28703226
>Battery EVs are dropping in value fast and millions are sitting in giant parking lots unsold.
Good, it means people can buy them even cheaper.

10% of new cars sold in US is battery EV. ~50% of car sold in China is battery EV. ~20-30% of new EV in Europe is battery EV. Hydrogen don't even make 0.1%, let alone 1%. Battery EVs are sold at 10000:1 ratio vs hydrogen cars.

>>28703226
>Battery EVs are dropping in value fast
Because of its rapid development. A 30k EV today drives three times further than a 30k EV did a decade ago.

>>28703248
The US is already having power grid issues powering that small amount of EVs, China just lies about everything so you can't trust that either.
Battery EVs will not take off

>>28703259
>power grid issues
Good, it means we need more battery packs and solars

>>28701844 (OP)
You burn more energy to get at and process the H than you get in return. It's a worse scam than solar and wind.

>>28701847
Considering everyb/o/dy on this board is a retard this is not a surprising take.

BEVs are nice the problem is the modern car part.
What we need is a lightweight EV with the bare minimum features for calling it a car.

>>28703147
Wtf are you on about? Also oil is subsidised as well, no one would be driving ICE cars otherwise.

>>28701844 (OP)
Californians are pissy because they expected d an unrealistic timeframe for hydrogen adoption. Don't think this lawsuit will work as I don't beleive Toyota actually gave a clear date on when they would have a H2 infrastructure

>>28703098
No serious car exclusively puts its power to the front wheels

>>28703259
>The US is already having power grid issues powering that small amount of EVs
That's a lie. US spends more electricity powering its AI data farms. Petrol production and storage also needs electrical power.

>Goyota once again exposed as the lying, bribing dipshits they are
The only people driving this trash brand around here are Uber Pajeet drivers.

>>28702941
That’s a shitty lawsuit I hope it gets struck down. If the state is going to punish them for experimental green tech nobody will experiment with green tech and the state is effectively choosing winners and losers which is stupid

>>28703624
AI is more useful than a shittier car powered by electricity.

>>28703848
>AI is more useful than a shittier car powered by electricity.
Forcing AIslop to produce anal loli porn has about 1% of the value of powering electric car charging points.

>>28703906
Producing battery evs creates more pollution than a regular gas car.
Batteries are also extremely dangerous, it's not a matter of if but when they will burst in flames, one by one.

>>28703848
No nigger it's not. AI is a black hole. EVs are actually real and useful unlike a glorified search engine with chat capabilities.

>>28703931
What do you think powers your phone?

>>28703634
Toyota sold a fat lie and should be punished for it. In fact it's shocking how much lying Toyota execs do on a daily basis and get away with it. I guess decades of bribing off politicians have made them cocky. This is a reminder to these nip arrogant fucks that their jeet pandering asses are not above the law. Hydrogen was never more than a stalling tactic to delay EV migration.

>>28704244
Cars are already a solved problem for the past 70 years, gas won't be replaced in our lifetimes.

>>28704246
No, Battery EV development has slowed hydrogen from taking over. We're barking up the wrong tree and creating more pollution than a gas powered world would ever create.

>>28704301
Battery development occured because it is using an existing power grid to charge cars. Building public chargers is even cheaper than building gas stations. This technology is a no-brainer considering the extreme gains made the past decade in renewable electricity sources. In a decade, we will have a big surplus of electricity from renewable sources. Then we best have good and abundant batteries so we can store that energy for months. This is what will define the next decades of power generation - huge amounts of electricity generated during peak hours and then stored in batteries for potentially several months with no need to access the grid. This will make our homes and cars far more robust to endure fluctuations and outages in the grid. Every home becomes self-reliant.

>>28704342
>renewables
Yawn, good luck supplying all that solar at night when people are finished with work.
Building a charger might be cheaper but building more power plants is definitely not cheaper than a gas station.
Batteries that store the energy a household needs degrade within 5 years, so good luck replacing that $20000 battery every 5 years.
Renewables are a scam that never pays back. Most people I know who bought solar regret it deeply, especially now that power companies are charging solar owners for feeding power back into the grid.

>>28704301
>gas won't be replaced in our lifetimes
probably not completely, but expect the ratio to swing heavily in favor of EVs in the coming decades.

>>28704381
>but expect the ratio to swing heavily in favor of EVs in the coming decades.
It wont. EV marketshare has actually fallen over the past 2 years as people wake up to the fact that EVs are infinitely less convenient than gas cars. People don't want to go to a charging station every few days and wait over an hour for their car to charge.

>>28703628
>elektrek
That site devolved into "I hate Elon Musk" because the main editor is a Canadian leftist

>>28704342
>a decade, we will have a big surplus of electricity from renewable sources.
>>28704381
>but expect the ratio to swing heavily in favor of EVs in the coming decades.
>>28703165
>Why are you a tranny?
>>28703344
>Wtf are you on about? Also oil is subsidised as well, no one would be driving ICE cars otherwise.
This is some change agent here to shit up the board like they did to /k/. It is the pure cancer agenda and none of the stuff he is saying is true. I can tell by his arguing style and terminology. They planted these people in Piston Heads a few years ago too and shitted that up and they are still there making paid propaganda points at each other..

>>28704427
You are talking with more than one person and need to take your meds.

>>28702941
>technicians allegedly referred to as, “ticking hydrogen bombs.”
And exactly how many cars have blown up? 0? Even ones that have crashed? Makes sense for a communist shithole like California to take the uninformed opinion of a few room temp in celsius border hoppers and try to turn it into a multi billion dollar shakedown.

>>28701844 (OP)
In Yurop at least : gas distributors colluding to prevent it from ever taking off by making it as difficult as possible to refuel.
Authorities learned from it and made it mandatory to offer EV charging stations.

>>28701844 (OP)
The EV movement has sabotaged Hydrogen from becoming a thing. Hydrogen is the most climate friendly fuel that you can use and still combust in an ICE car.
The world instead will be polluted creating solar panels and batteries which require extremely rare earth materials.

>>28704518
this doesn't seem credible.

>>28701844 (OP)
There's no infrastructure for hydrogen
Not to mention Shaniqua is cruising down the freeway at 80mph on 2 spare donuts and with her hood duct taped closed.
Do you really want her responsible for maintenance on a hydrogen tank?

>>28704680
this. it's just a stupid idea.

>>28704680
Shaniqua's hydrogen bomb will be less damaging to both people and environment compared to her lithium bomb

>>28704680
> There's no infrastructure for hydrogen
A basic hydrogen station setup costs over 1 Million $.

>>28704379
Why are you spewing so much shit from your ass, n-word?

>>28701844 (OP)
With how many they probably sold. I'm guessing they'll settle for $570k

>>28701844 (OP)
The answer should obviously be to obtain the hydrogen from nuclear reactions rather than chemical. That is to put a reactor in the car.

>>28704680
Instead, it's going to be 2 spare donuts with a giant lithium bomb that you can't put out for weeks if it combusts.

>>28701844 (OP)
>What went wrong?
It's just a more convoluted electric car.
Instead of:
>motor
>big battery
you have
>motor
>small battery
>fuel cell
>tank

Its only actual advantage is range, and that one's only really important in commercial applications (ex. transportation industry).

>>28701844 (OP)
Sabotaged by EV investment.
Solar and Batteries are environmental nightmares.

>>28705746
Range is all that matters in a car.
Fuck spending over an hour to recharge an EV every few days at a charging station that charges more per mile than gas.

>>28705909
Of course they are you dumb nigger

>>28705910
True, no one would drive an EV where you have to spend hours to charge. Thats why Tesla built a network of V3 chargers where you can charge in few minutes. And if you have a home or apartment, where your car sits for 10+ hours at a time at home, thats where you charge up at home without any worry/hurry. So you never have to use a public charger if you dont go out of state travel

I checked it out for 20 seconds and learned only a few T-Dealers had the H2, one being in SF.

also that Toyota was 'screening' prospects

9/10 this is just Jews trying to Jew Toyota.

>>28706050
>So you never have to use a public charger if you dont go out of state travel

I love the framing of driving more than a few miles as "out of state travel"

When I was a consultant I would make "out of state travel" mileage within the same zipcode

>>28706067
Not even Uber drivers drive more than 200 miles a day. And thats charged right at their home.

>>28706067
>300 miles
>a few miles

>>28701844 (OP)
>Jews are leveraged to their tits into BEV, now they wanna kill something that was never a threat.
Why are they like this?

>>28703344
>Fuel tax, sales tax + tip + goy tax + ...
How the fuck is it subsidized?

>>28706091
Toyota is the jewest of the jew

>>28701954
>zero emission vehicles
I kekkle like a small school child every time i hear that term

>>28706533
Thats a prepper's car and his generator for his off grid home

>>28701844 (OP)
how could you not know what fuel is available near you

>>28703058
2 more weeks

>>28706567
>prepper
>using an always-connected ev, reliant on big power companies
>not growing your own diesel biofuel or using waste fry oil

>>28706828
Why would a prepper rely on big power companies? Dont you know preppers have offgrid homes powered by wind/solar and hydro? And who told you Tesla is always connected? lol. Only time you need that is when you update your car for whatever reason. Who updates their car anyway?

>>28706833
>Dont you know preppers have offgrid homes powered by wind/solar and hydro
No they don't, I don't know what kind of shit you've been smoking.
You need to spend $100k on a bank of batteries. 20 jerry cans that will outlast that.
Solar doesn't work at night or when its cloudy. Wind generators break very often.

>>28706891
>You need to spend $100k on a bank of batteries
nah, 20k on batteries gets you a few days of powering a small home
>Solar doesn't work at night
and it works just fine during the day? you just have to size it correctly
>Wind generators break very often.
this is just a stupid thing to say, are you implying it's impossible to make a thing that spins a generator reliable?

>>28706533
>be me
>have EV
>have home solar
Feels good bros.

>>28706918
Those batteries degrade within 5 years.
Gusts of wind can easily damage wind generators
Most people aren't home during the day so all that solar power gets wasted. WOW an entire 1.3 cents of feed-in tariff that completely gets eaten up when you need to use power again at night!

>>28706954
It feels good spending $30k more on a soulless vehicle and solar panels that don't work at night?

>>28706989
Dumb nigger Toyota-made asspulls

lmao
can you imagine suing a company for something they promised for a DECADE but didn't deliver
good thing only toyota does that

>>28707082
at this point i wish toyota just kept with cute dihatsu kei cars, lexus/toyota sucks now and has for a long time

>>28707082
Still the best EVs.

>>28707082
How hasn't Tesla delivered what they've promised?

>>28701844 (OP)
James May had two Mirai and threw in the towel when the hydrogen refuelling stations within London became just one.
Imagine queuing up with every gas car for one pump.

>>28702941
>technicians allegedly referred to as, “ticking hydrogen bombs.”
This is massively hyperbolic and inflammatory if you know what a hydrogen bomb actually is. Yes, hydrogen gas is highly flammable. No, your HFC Toyota will not cause a thermonuclear detonation.

>>28706067
I love the framing of 300+ mi as
>a few miles

>>28706989
>Those batteries degrade within 5 years.
>Gusts of wind can easily damage wind generators
You're right, we should continue to rely solely on gasoline which requires massive amounts of infrastructure to produce and won't last more than a year if that infrastructure ever fails.

>>28701844 (OP)
Proto-EV when it came to problems. No fueling stations and when there were any it was immediately full.

>>28702021
>hydrogen makes sense to retards who think in a vacuum
true