Thread 2821600

It's just a technique for splitting wood without having to carry a friggin 2 pound hatchet around. It's not religious sacrilege. If you insist on carrying your grandpa's stick tang hunting knife, go for it, but this seething hatred of modern gear and techniques is just goofy and cringe.

>>2821600 (OP)
Bait thread, but here's your (you)
>it's more laborious - the 2lb hatchet that you save in weight, you have to expend in muscle power when splitting the wood instead of relying on the momentum of the axe head
>thicker blade stock batons better than thin, which birthed the "sharpened prybar" meme; batonning knives are excessively thick which makes then inefficient cutters
>long knives are more dangerous
>it's tedious for multi-hour campfires
>it's destructive to the knife, unless it's a sharpened prybar
>it's been the fuel for a while marketing blitz of heavy knives that produced a "need" for full tangs, which some people see as totally contrived
Those are my reasons, anyway.

Why don’t people just carry a machete? Seems like the best of both worlds.

>>2821606
Machetes are for cutting living vines and shrubbery. Long+thin blade is like the worst of both worlds for a campfire splitter.

>>2821600 (OP)
because axes exist

>>2821606
batonning with a propper machete would be unfathomably retarded

>>2821600 (OP)
It's just a meme that /out/ made up ten years ago. It's not a real thing. People just talk about it for the lulz.

>>2821600 (OP)
my grandfather used to split those with old mora.. just pressure and wrist twist, but he was a lumberjack his whole life

>>2821605
>relying on the momentum of the axe head

You're swinging the baton fucktard.

>>thicker blade stock batons better than thin, which birthed the "sharpened prybar" meme; batonning knives are excessively thick which makes then inefficient cutters

Bullshit, plenty of flat and hollow ground knives are strong enough for batonning and cut very well.

>long knives are more dangerous

Axe is far more dangerous.

>it's tedious for multi-hour campfires

Batonning saw-cut wood is just as efficient as splitting with a hatchet if not moreso.

>it's destructive to the knife, unless it's a sharpened prybar

Any full tang knife can handle it. In 20 years I've only broken one knife batonning, a knockoff of the Kabar made by Ontario.

>>it's been the fuel for a while marketing blitz of heavy knives that produced a "need" for full tangs, which some people see as totally contrived

Then they can carry an axe everywhere like fucktards.

>>2821606
Machete is the worst of all worlds, poor at both cutting and splitting, fragile, doesn't fit in a pack, too large and clumsy to be versatile the way a hatchet is, worst possible tool you can carry.

>>2821612
6 oz silky saw crosscuts as fast as a boy's axe weighing 3 pounds overall. From there you just need a splitting tool for small diameter wood (wedges can be crafted and used on large diameter wood). It makes far more sense to just add 2 ounces to your knife in the form of a good tang than to add 24-30 ounces to your pack in the form of a hatchet.

I just pick up dead stuff and burn that. Sometimes I'll stomp the larger pieces in two. You don't even need a saw, hatchet, or even a knife if you're just making a fire and a shelter. Don't be a faggy Englishman bushcrafter who has to saw all his firewood for instagram. Be a 1940s American boy scout who just collects dead wood and burns it.

>>2821600 (OP)
probably because it seems like a useless larp meme? if you can find wood big enough to split what's stopping from getting smaller stuff?

>>2821646
or i can use that 3 lb saw and split it in a quarter of the time because of the force applied due to weight.
you arent bright are you?
As expected most people from the united states arent good at outdoors shit

>>2821763
3lb axe*

>>2821763
>>2821764
my excuse for being retarded this early in the morning is a just woke up.
You dont need to baton when an axe can do the work in a quarter of the time
literally ancient people used axes over knives for splitting large wood for a reason.

>>2821765
and an axe will make much quicker work of a smaller piece of wood

>>2821766
you shouldnt use a knife unless it's time to do utility work or to wittle stick sized wood
but it's diameter is big enoigh for an axe
split it first then get to wittling
actually use your tools correctly and they'd last longer. Unless your fine with being stuck innawoods with a dull """supersteel""" that you need a belt sander to sharpen

>>2821611
Lol I use a machete for processing firewood. However, one side of the blade is a saw, so that helps.

>>2821763
Zero reading comprehension.

>>2821765
You're adding a massive amount of weight to your kit for little benefit.

Ancient people split with axes because they had to carry an axe anyway because they didn't have saws, or saws were very expensive and not field practical. Because an axe was already a necessity there was little pressure to develop knives that could handle splitting. A full tang knife + modern folding saw is a vastly lighter and superior strategy for backpacking and survival to carrying any type of axe.

>>2821766
No, axes become clumsier the smaller diameter the piece of wood you're working with is. For processing dry branches <4" in diameter into kindling a knife is much more efficient and safer and you don't have to be as particular about finding a good chopping block. Then for anything larger than that, improvised wedges are more efficient, so a hatchet doesn't really excel anywhere honestly.

Because people think this is something you normally do with any knife.

>>2821796
btfo'd the entire thread

>>2821782
ill use a saw when necessary. Batoning is stupid as shit to me and seems like a waste of time and energy. You need to that wood split fast. Use an axe get the job done as fast as possible

>>2821802
>You need to that wood split fast.
no clue why to is in there

>>2821802
Batonning is much easier than carrying an axe around full time.

>>2821802
Splitting small diameter wood is much faster and easier with a knife than with an axe. An axe is better for larger diameter wood, but improvised wedges are even better still.

>>2821810
im still not batonning because that looks like the gayest shit imaginable when i can just swing my axe once and the wood is split

>>2821814
touché

because some knives are designed for it

>>2821823
>muh glorious nipponese carbon steel
>banzai

Do people on this board just have hyper-autism or something?
If batonning is faster in a situation, baton
if it isnt, use an axe.
Not hard

Right tool for the right job. It's not a huge deal to carry a hatchet around.

>>2821845
The right tool is a silky saw and a full tang knife.

>>2821734
>I just pick up dead stuff and burn that. Sometimes I'll stomp the larger pieces in two. You don't even need a saw, hatchet, or even a knife if you're just making a fire and a shelter. Don't be a faggy Englishman bushcrafter who has to saw all his firewood for instagram. Be a 1940s American boy scout who just collects dead wood and burns it.

Patrician view. Everyone else here seems to insist on eating soup with a fork.

>>2821886
No.

>>2821734
I always assumed people batoned when the ground was wet and all they had were stored logs or something.
People dont actually "make" kindling when they dont have to, right?

>>2821734
>>2821931

Not effective. Sticks on the ground are on the ground because they rotted off the tree, they are poor quality wood that won't burn for a long time, and roughly half the time they're too wet to make a fire with. Thinking that you can rely on sticks for fire is a hallmark mentality of inexperience, the opinion of some urban person who went on a couple camping trips at most.

>>2821991
Stop bumping this thread, dude.

>>2821991
This is not always true. It depends on the area, but I've built fires that have burned all night from gathered wood.

>>2822026
In eastern North America that doesn't work most of the time. You need a way to split open blowdown limbs 3"+ in diameter to get dry wood of reasonable quality.

>>2821971
Retards assume that bark doesn't burn for some reason. Wish I was kidding, but I've unironically had people tell me "you need to split wood, or it won't burn right" dozens of times.
yet another reason to camp solo.

>>2821644
For clearing land or making a path through dense growth they are excellent though. You can just hack all of that stuff to bits straight away. No point in swinging a hatchet at thorny twigs

>>2822046
True but that's not really a survival or bushcraft job.

>>2821991
Funny you say that because the only time I have a fire at a campsite is when I bring friends out for an overnighter and they want one. What do you even need a fire for? I have insulation to keep warm and if I really want hot food I'll bring a small stove.

>>2822125
>What do you even need a fire for?
Do you know how much I spent on my UltraSurvivalKniv-3000, certified for class 4 batonning?

>>2821644
Eh, feels like a bit of an exageration of their negatives. A machete feels more like a cheap jack of all trades than some sort of shame on all your ancestors for carrying. Sure you could carry a knife and you could carry a hatchet and those would do the job better (unless the job is cutting through undergrowth which is the one thing the machete does best, but realistically most people are not going to be cutting their own trails like that).

But a machete is a combination knife and hatchet that you do not give a shit about losing or ruining doing shit like batoning wood. You don't need an expensive machete, it's just steel and a handle and usually a cheap sheath that you can get one so cheap they're practically disposable, it's probably going to be lighter than a hatchet and easier to carry and its not difficult to attach one to the outside of your pack.
Sure I wouldn't want to cut down a full sized tree with one. But I wouldn't want to do that with a hatchet either honestly.

>>2821796

That Mora Robust is not a full tang knife

>>2821600 (OP)
It's vital to survival and people who can't do it subconsciously feel at risk.

>>2821600 (OP)
It's because batoning is primarily marketing. Not in the sense that it's just for show - if you know you can baton with a knife it means it doesn't break when you put it under stress, ok that's good - it's not like when they use a pan to hammer down nails in infomercials as if a pan that withstands 2 seconds of abuse is automatically good - it's just that people react against the sheer memetic value of practices that have ascended to marketing ritual. And in the /out/ world LITERALLY fucking EVERYTHING is a marketing ritual, cause nobody does that shit where you go out in the forest with a knife and le fucking survive. You park your car and walk 100 meters to the camping spot. That's what everyone does. The truth is that this whole hobby is a fucking meme, isn't it? It's nice to go camp but especially the obsession with knives has nothing to do with camping and I don't even believe anybody who actually goes camping is the target audience for this shit, it's not even LARPers this is targeted to. The real audience is 100% the EDC faggots who use their feminized shopping addiction as escapist wank. Everyone hates batoning because it's for the EDC fags. Holy shit nobody cares what's in your fucking bag you prissy little fruit, and throwing a gun in your shopping haul doesn't make you any less gay. jesus christ I hate EDC so much.
>inb4 well *I* don't do that ackdhsuhsusally
Yes because 4chan is the only place where you can find the actual autists who'd take this survival shit seriously
unless you live in fucking alaska and subsist on hunting then none of this shit is relevant to you. if you do live innawoods, then great, but most people don't, and especially most people who follow the online outdoors scene do not fucking live innawoods

>>2821600 (OP)
why cant people just bring an axe with them?
my last camping trip i brought a cheapo hf axe and used it to split freshly fallen tree. it was still very moist but i was able to split it but battoning the axe head

>>2822215
because heccing youtuber said so :(((

>>2822203
and in the united states everything is a marketing ritual***
ftfy

>>2822182
I routinely use a $6 Harbor Freight machete, the opposite side of it is a saw blade. I've more than gotten my money's worth out of it, it's a great tool to have on hand.

>>2822243
Stop bumping this thread, dude.

>>2821606
> best of both worlds.
Billhook

>>2821796
Batonny chop chop

>>2822248
This THRILLS the hyperconsoomer, because now he earns $5500 from the video, and more importantly than that, he has an excuse to buy a new knife.

>>2822248
could have done that in a quarter of the time with an axe

>>2822278
>could have done that in a quarter of the time with an axe
B-b-but...Batonny chop chop!

But there's so many good uses for a hatchet. You can use it to dig a hole. You can use it to knock down tree limbs to build a shelter. You can use it to pound in tent pegs. There are so many good reasons to bring a hatchet anyway, with the added bonus of being able to use it to split logs.

>>2822308
I love the subs

>>2821991
I literally live in a dry cabin in Wisconsin (since 2016) and make fires outside year round this way. Works great. I grew up out west. Works great there, too. Natives made fire on this continent for 10,000 years without real axes, batonable knives, or Silky saws. It sounds like you're fucking stupid and projecting your personal skill limitations.

>>2822524
I will add that I prefer and carry full tang knives that are 100% batonable. While batoning firewood is completely unnecessary, batoning as a technique for constructing things out of wood like log sheds or bridges over a stream or an A-frame log mover is useful and one I employ a lot. It's more precise than an axe or hatchet when you really want to fit things together snuggly. But for firewood it's a waste of time and energy.

So my experience is: carry a knife you can baton with, just don't dick around wasting time with sawing perfect rounds and batoning them into little staves. Fire building is the simplest shit ever. Just remember to always start small to large and dry to wet. Break longer pieces by stepping on them, or let the fire burn them in half before pushing the rest in. Literally works every single time.

>>2822267
>now he earns $5500 from the video, and more importantly than that, he has an excuse to buy a new knife.
Well, can't blame him.
I too would enjoy making $5500 out of breaking a knife and then be able to do it all over again for $100.
As it is I never broke a knife, yet all I use are cheap chink knives because I don't have money for the nice shit.

>>2822248
>long, tapered and paper thin blade
>trying to split a log

lol

>>2822247
This take is actually so based its insane.

>>2821600 (OP)
the only thing i need to split wood is the .44 magnum i keep in my prison wallet
one direct shot to the center of the wood and i have both kindling and logs

>>2821605
- hatchets are not an ideal tool for splitting. you would really want a boys axe to be much more quick or efficient than a knife. batoning with a knife is also safer than splitting with a hatchet.
- a knife's a lot smaller to pack and even a prybar knife has secondary functions in the firemaking process and tertiary functions outside of firemaking that a hatchet or axe doesn't have.
- you don't need a very long knife to split wood.
- pry bar knives aren't as bad for cutting as you think, you're not going to do fine woodcarving with them but who fucking cares they'll do every task you actually need. you can make dinner with a bahco demo knife and make tent pegs with it what more do you need? if you want to make art out in the woods get a puukko or something.
- you can take a small carving knife with you if you really wish.
- plenty of knives can baton just fine without prybar geometry. even a lot of good slicers and woodcarving knives can baton decent sized wood safely.
- making any campfire is tedious. campfires are almost always unnecessary creature comforts anyways. plenty of people don't even make one, and just plan around that.
- who cares if its destructive to the knife when we live in a world where EXCELLENT $10 bushcraft knives exist and endgame ones start around $100.
- you can do a HELL of a lot more with a $20 corona saw and a $10 hulafors knife than you can with a hatchet for less weight.
>it's been the fuel for a while marketing blitz of heavy knives that produced a "need" for full tangs, which some people see as totally contrived
absolutely true, knife design has leaned a bit too hard into it.

>>2821606
machete's for murdering blackberry bush niggers.

>>2821646
based but the small curved corona saw is even better than silkys. i rip faster with it.

>>2821763
>As expected most people from the united states arent good at outdoors shit
pic is old growth forests in europe.
lmao yeah you're a real outdoorsman buddy :D sure thing :D

>>2821605
also you can carve a wooden wedge then all you need to do with your knife is either start a crack in the piece of wood or you could even look around for wood that naturally has one and not even have to damage your knife. this lets you split much bigger wood with a smaller knife and also risk breaking/damaging your knife a lot less.

>>2821605
you don't go out

>>2821844
>check'd
>this rigger gets it

>>2822332
you can baton with a nata hatchet, but I suppose it's slightly worse as a hammer.

>>2821600 (OP)
Stone age people survived millions of years without ever batonning or splitting wood

I routinely baton small logs with my ka bar, never had a problem because
>im splitting store bought wood which is soft as paper
>only splitting small diameter pieces off of corners of the log
>go with the grain
>dont apply much pressure
>the bulk of force is directed onto the spine downward and not onto the blade
>avoid knots
>never bend the knife

Been years, never had an issue, never even had the knife get stuck

>>2828230
*not onto the tang, not the blade

The knife is still solid, no wobbling

yall niggas ever chop chop?

>>2828230
You're doing as it's meant to be done, and not being a retard claiming that it replaces using an axe.

>>2822034
Skill issue

>>2822248
>Batonny chop chop

Finally.

>>2822308
>has a hatchet
>uses it to beat on a knife...

>>2828230
>routinely
What routine is that? Twice a year?

>>2828234
damn that fit goes hard bruh

>>2830172
It's always a pleasure to share videos of complete geniuses of the outdoors.
But the real hero is whoever made the clips, specially the ones with subtitles, that was a touch of genius.

>>2821600 (OP)
I have an srk sk5 and I batton shit with it

>>2822308
kek

>>2821643
NTA, but....
>swinging the baton
So you have to find or cut the right piece of wood to do a shitty job that a purpose built hatchet handle does in the most efficient way?
>Batonning saw-cut wood is just as efficient as splitting with a hatchet if not moreso.
So now you need your heavy duty knife AND your baton AND a saw to do the job of one hatchet?
>Any full tang knife can handle it
I mean, surely you've seen the many pictures of knives that couldn't, right?
>last response reeeeeeeeeee
I guess I should have just skipped to the end to know that you're far too emotionally invested to the batony chop-chop meme. I'm not saying that batonning doesn't have its place, but to say that it's far superior to a hatchet is just ludicrous.

Need a bushcraft knife. Any recommendations? Preferably wooden handle and around 50-60 £€$¥

>>2822308
lol i have that same knife
it comes with a firestarter and rape whistle and was one of the cheapest survival knives walmart sells

>>2827975
fuck that cheap chinkshit on the right, Fiskars is the real deal, high value and compleatly indestructible.

>>2821600 (OP)
made up solution to a made up problem so weekend warrior fags can play pretend at being a manly man

just collect thinner sticks nigga

>>2830906
>Fiskars is the real deal, high value and compleatly indestructible.
Surprising how many people report the heads flying off or the handles breaking, then.
Also, don't forget that plastics have almost no dampening, and will destroy your wrists. Well, would destroy them, if you actually used the axe regularly.

>>2822247
>Billhook
Which type?
Yorkshire pattern is the king of hooks but not convenient while a spar hook is a lightweight thing

>>2821600 (OP)
Genuinely why would you feel the need to do this? Just break the sticks up with your hands and use the knife to make kindling. If you really need some big chunks of firewood just bring a hatchet or a camp shovel.

>>2821600 (OP)
>
batonning is a woodworking technique for tasks where a hatchet would be too imprecise and a chisel is unavailable. that's it.

>>2822247
based european poster

>>2821600 (OP)
batoning is gay

>>2821600 (OP)

At 2 pounds, you can carry a knife, a hatchet and even a small saw.

>nnoooo, i-it's too much for me, nnnn-n-n-noooo

Go back home to your weight calculation Excel.

>>2831838
>At 2 pounds, you can carry a knife, a hatchet and even a small saw.
A big(ish) knoife weighs less than 1 pound.
The weight of the hatchet by itself would let them carry a big knoife and a saw.

P.S.: those fiskars must be made of hollow chinkshit mystery steel, my shitty locally made hatchet is heavier, my chickshit hatchet is 1.5x (950 grams) the weight and my passable hardware store hatchet is nearly 2x the weight (1100 grams)

t. guy who carries whatever suits what he is going to do.

>>2831456
Not being a britbong, the pattern names and styles are different.
But to be honest, mostly just some random chinkshit one that I found for half the price of the local ones, does what I need just fine.
Cuts small shit when I clear up small trails, can even batonny chop chop with it.

>>2831850
Fiskars is so lightweight because the handle is hollow and made out of glass-filled nylon. It is light and relatively dependable when looking at the weight. Due to the materials the handle withstands being left in to wet conditions for very long times. During my conscription we had Fiskars axes as squad tools and they withstood all kinds of abuse.

>>2831863
Lightweight is not what you want in a cutting tool that utilizes its mass to cut, and they're about as dependable as the milk you left out on a table overnight on a summer camping trip. I've had 12 of them shatter while cutting wood in the winter.

>>2831896
Technically a cutting tool such as an axe only needs the weight in the blade, that's all what matters anyways. That is because the axe stores the kinetic energy during a swing. Having a heavy handle is not that important. Also are you sure that the axe heads of those different manufacturers were the same size? Fiskars has a lot of different models for different tasks.
And please do give a bit more elaboration on how you managed to shatter 12 Fiskars axes during your winter trips? Did you do something that the manufacturer has recommended not doing or what? People generally in Finland store their axes in (cold) firewood sheds and make a lot of firewood during winters as well, yet I have not heard of people shattering their axe handles while doing so.

>>2831899
>Also are you sure that the axe heads of those different manufacturers were the same size?
"Anon the destroyer of Fiskars" >>2831896 is not me >>2831850.
Anyway, fair point. I wrongly thought my larger hatchet was also in the 500-600gr category, it isn't, it's 800 gr, I could have sworn it was a 600 gr head with a 45 cm haft.
Of the other two, the locally made one is 500gr and the chinkshit is 600gr.
Making the local one about the same overall density as the Fiskars and the Chinese one a bit denser.
Ergo, Fiskars must be made of aluminium. /s

Still, I don't like them. Impossible to fix if it breaks = I don't like it.

>>2821644
machetes allow you to kill demons inawoods though

>>2830906
>cheap chinkshit on the right
>"Gransfors Bruks"
shit bait. made me reply

>>2821991
That's ridiculous, I literally never built a fire any other way and they always burn all night.

>>2831917
>impossible to fix if it breaks
Some dude on reddit actually did fix a broken Fiskars hatchet by gluing the blade on to a laminated handle that he also had made himself.

Nata is the way to go to split small logs.

>>2831899
>And please do give a bit more elaboration on how you managed to shatter 12 Fiskars axes during your winter trips? Did you do something that the manufacturer has recommended not doing or what? People generally in Finland store their axes in (cold) firewood sheds and make a lot of firewood during winters as well, yet I have not heard of people shattering their axe handles while doing so.
I fell and process trees for my heat and have been doing so for decades. I live in the mountains and the average temperature in the winter is well below zero. I've never had a good oiled ash or hickory handle break from normal use, but every time someone gifts me some fiskars shit I use it to humor them and it never lasts a whole season. They always snap right where the hollow ends.
They're ok splitting wedges, but the steel is cast and tends to break off on a hammer strike.

>>2831990
Why not get the broken axe warrantie'd? They have 25 year warranty anyways.

>>2831984
That thing actually looks kinda sexy, nice.

>>2831986
Come home white man, the billhook awaits you!

Axes are scary. I hate swinging them. I prefer using a decent Japanese knife. It might take longer, but I feel more secure.

>>2821600 (OP)
It's like using a wrench as a hammer instead of a hammer. It works but not as well and it's not what it's meant for.

>>2831992
Why?
I have axes that don't shatter when being used normally, I'd rather just use up the garbage and go back to swinging my plumbs.

>>2832178
Swinging an axe gave me a temporary form of PTSD

I've batoned wood before, but never swung something like an axe. Raise it lightly by the handle and the resulting chop of power is humbling and jarring (even with gloves).

The swing bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don't know what you're doing. The splinters disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sap and destruction made me sick. The cracking — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. For at least an hour after chopping wood just a few times, I was anxious and irritable.

Even in one-handed mode, it is very simple to chop off two dozen branches before you even know what has happened. If illegally modified to fully Fiskars, it doesn't take any imagination to see dozens of trees falling in front of your axe head.

All it takes is the will to do it.

Forty nine trees can be gone in 60 seconds.

>>2830174
that's what makes it funny
>>2830202
SAAAR!