What happened to camera ergonomics? Of course no one is asking to make cameras needlessly heavy, but with normal to large hands, you can't hold the new cameras comfortably without adding a grip.

>>4425894 (OP)
>you can't hold the new cameras comfortably without adding a grip.
Skill issue.

>>4425895
t. tiny girl hands

>>4425894 (OP)
>What happened to camera ergonomics?
They got OSHA'd into blobs before you even started complaining. No one needed a grip at all and then cameras got the OSHA treatment so arthritic fucks and women could handhold 70-200s more comfortably.
>BUT I NEED MY PINKY WRAPPED AROUND A SOFT RUBBER GRIP
It doesn't make a difference unless you have arthritis

The general rule of the actual "workplace safety" sort of ergonomics (not the applefaggot workflow intuitiveness bla bla bla ergonomics) is grip area is a replacement for grip strength. More friction, less need to exert yourself, less RSI or less aggravation of existing health issues. An arthritic man would struggle to handle a nikon fm3a for more than an hour but would have no problems with a DSLR.

I hope mirrorless cameras eventually do away with grips entirely. I am not an arthritic man who has to hold a telezoom up for 4 hours straight as part of his job. Cameras should be made for more than just people "at work" (sports/news coverage fags and the like).

>>4425906
It's not about friction or a lack of grip strength, it's being able to hook your fingers around the grip so you don't need to squeeze as much. I don't care how strong you think you are, if you're constantly doing it then your hand will get tired sooner. I have both a first gen A7 and a later model with the larger grip, the latter I can hold with just my finger tips.

Also having a protruding grip gives more room for other controls

Well I printed out a grip extension for my RP and it's a world of difference, much more comfortable.

>>4425913
>it's not about grip strength!
>i just can't squeeze that hard :(
>my hand is tired :(
>with a bigger grip i dont have to squeeze hard and my hands hurt less :)
So it's about grip strength

When men were men and gen Z wasn't the gayest generation because they didn't exist, cameras were half as tall, 4x as thin, and had no grips.

A real man does not need a grip on his camera.

Simple as.

>>4425919
Quit pretending to be retarded.

>>4425922
>its not about grip strength
>i just can't squeeze that hard
>i dont care how strong you think you are
>your hand must be as weak and easily tired as mine

>>4425919
>>4425929
Would you using a tripcode?

>>4425930
you mind*

>>4425930
handlets mad

sorry you got btfo. grips are for making things easier to hold for weak handed people that's it.

>>4425894 (OP)
More freedom now, instead of one-size fits all, it's one size that you can customize to your needs and the specific situation
Just get a grip, of your choosing, instead of the 1 your brand decided for you
You just hate having more options and need the manufacturer to do everything for you

>>4425894 (OP)
The features and price points may have shifted around a bit, but in 2008, you could have a 40d with a larger grip or a smaller, lighter 450d. Now, you can have an r6 with a larger grip or a smaller, lighter r8.
The only real change is without a mirror you can now fit a full frame sensor in the small body.

>>4425894 (OP)
theyre a meme but like everything else canon has the best ones.

>>4425897
I'm sure your bf loves your manly hands, bro.

>>4425894 (OP)
I blame sony

>>4425894 (OP)
>no one is asking to make cameras needlessly heavy
WTF happened to everybody wanting a $2k plastic toy built for a 10 yr old hand? Some of us want durable tools that will last, and can be used exposed to the elements without fear of damage.

>>4425906
Blobbers hated brickchad because he told the truth

Its time for grips and centered viewfinders to die.
>my baby fingers cant hold a 24-70 f2 L without-
i dont care stop making my normal camera giant and ugly because you’re a no skill wedding snapper

>>4426214
You mean like a leica or an fm3a? BlobSLRs were a mistake. Grips and contoured plastic need to die.

Fact: people switched to phones because their only other option was blobSLRs. Blobbers killed photography.

>>4426216
Fact: People switched to phones because they are fags who eat cum and cannot or won't carry a camera with them, regardless of the size and ergos

>>4426342
the fuji x100vi and xm5 being perpetually sold out says otherwise
the a7cii rocketing to the top of all of japans best sellers despite being a snoy says otherwise

people WANT cameras with "bad ergonomics", and people like OP, and jared polin, are unironically complaining the camera industry into killing itself. and it's working because they claim to be professionals and therefore important customers. in raw numbers, the ZF outsells all other nikon bodies just because it isn't a blob.
>im shuch a profeshenul (note: wedding photographer who doesnt even own a strobe)
>i SNEED a grip so i can one hand my 20-85 f1.8-2.4 for 5 hours straight
>Camera industry except for fujifilm and om system: omg you must honorabre buyer, you best person to have our brand, you give us much honor making yens with photo. anything you say. *blobmaxxes for 10 years*

>>4426367
the ZF outsells the other nikons because it was the first good nikon mirrorless that didn't cost 4 to 5 thousand+ bucks

>>4426388
itll keep outselling the z5ii, fr. normal people legitimately hate blob cameras. they are disgusting to look at. they are strongly associated with pedophiles and stalkers. no one wants to be seen with one.

nah dude you just have weirdo hands and need to buy a grip

>>4426367
>people WANT cameras with "bad ergonomics",

People are gullible fuckwits who waste money needlessly because they are terrified of missing out. In 6 months they sell them and buy next new thing

>>4425894 (OP)
Why arent you mentioning the Nikon Zf(c) or the OM-3? They are literally case in point for the how shit ergonomics are these days.

>>4426388
>because it was the first good nikon mirrorless
Wrong, it sells because hipster faggots like your dirty cunt are still a sizeable userbase

>NOOO!!! But muh narrative!!!!

I got the yearly leica gas. Somebody help me. I really want to spend way too much money on something that ultimately won't make my photos better.

>>4426740
If only you didn't have to buy one of their top tier models to get a decently sized body.

>>4426751
the body sizes are quite different, but depth is very similar and height of grip is only marginally different
a z5 really isn't that far off a z8 when looking at just the grip size

>>4426724
Yes, people who don't "NEED" to hold a 16-200 f2-2.8 VR landscape-birding boomer zoom with one arthritic hand while shooting are a sizeable userbase. Grips are totally fucking useless if you are not always walking around with a zoom and a speedlight.

Cameras had zero grips for almost 100 fucking years because they were also for normal people instead of just wedding/newspaper snapshitters, but the camera industry wasn't profiting enough so they put grips on normal cameras, raised prices dramatically, and then started funneling normies to disposable plastic crap to generate more steady revenue.

Sell a man an om-2n, and he'll shoot for 50 years before finally upgrading to a nikon ZF
Sell a man a plastic compact or canon rebel tier ewaste, and he'll be back in 3-6 months for a new camera

>>4426754
are you sure? I think if this tiny, tiny difference is causing you discomfort, you may have something wrong with your hands. Perhaps they're weak and sickly? Personally I have shot with many cameras of different sizes over the years but none of them have caused physical discomfort.

>>4426762
i dont like when grip is small enough for my pinky hanging on the bottom, but an add-on grip fixes that for most of the small bodies
z5 and similar is fine

>>4426764
Why? In such cases place your pinky under the camera and support it that way.

>>4426764
ignore the troll

>>4426767
>anyone able to carry a sub 2kg item must be lying or trolling
This is why people hate photographers

>>4426811
It says a lot when someone becomes insecure over a small thing like someone having better grip strength. Who is he trying to impress with his feminine social shaming? How much is his opinion truly worth if he treats cameras like fashion accessories versus someone who just treats them like the tools they are?

What is his intended end result anyway? That the more dedicated units become smaller so he doesn't feel small as well? It's so petty.

>>4426825
You say this as if there isn't a whole thread of you people bitching about carrying this item. We have this discussion every time ergonomics come up. And of course it always boils down to mental gymnastics as you so clearly are an example of.
>you're actually the weak one because you mentioned that I am infact the problem after 4 pages of my whinging
>I think you use cameras as fashion accessories because ???
I would accuse you of projecting on that second point for bringing it up out of absolutely nowhere, but then I'd sound like as much of a r/psychology schlomo as you do.

>>4426827
>everyone in the thread is the same poster
Invalidate yourself some more.

>>4426839
I don't think you realise how similar you are to every single beanie-wearing numale making gear tiktoks. I know you're not literally the same person, but neither your friends nor family would notice if you were replaced by some other photographer faggot.

>>4426842
Speaking of projections...

I need IBIS and a grip because I was born with neurological issues. I will probably die from suicide at 60-70 when my essential tremor turns into full blown parkinsons. My right arm has nerve damage from being smashed when I got T-boned by a pickup so half my grip strength is totally gone and without a good grip I shake really badly or just drop shit.

Right now my minimum for reliably handholding an 85mm on FF with no IBIS is 1/250, with one hand supporting the lens, kneeling.

Even then I've used a lot of cameras without grips, and pretty long lenses on them too, just by adjusting my technique.

You're all whiners and would be fine with a short, gripless brick SLR. If you're healthy you should be able to use a Nikon ZF and a 24-70 f2.8 (and no added grip) without complaining. I understand wanting to help the disabled but manufacturers should just make cameras without any grip, keep them as short as possible, and let people add the extra size back on with a grip+arca plate, maybe even one that fits their hands better than a one size fits all. It would just be better for everybody.

>>4425894 (OP)
Your fat burger hands are anything but normal if you can't properly hold any of the cameras in your pic

>>4426902
The thing is there is pretty much no advantage to making a body with no grip, you're just sacrificing ergos and battery capacity for aesthetics and to be able to say you have strong manly hands. Any lens other than the smallest shittiest pancake is going to stick out further than the grip.

>>4426902
>You're all whiners and would be fine with a short, gripless brick SLR
What's the goddamn problem with having a preference? I would be fine taking the train to work and yet I don't.

>>4426902
>I need IBIS and a grip
>You're all whiners and would be fine with a short, gripless brick SLR
>>4426973
but then you can add your own grip of your choosing, and make it more compact as needed for travel or storage

>>4426902
>"I'm disabled, your argument is invalid"
>"It would just be better for everybody (if you catered to me)"
At least you made it easy with the Pepe.

>>4426973
>but the pancake isnt SUPER SHARP so it doesnt count!!!111!!
and? so fucking what, more large sensor cameras would fit in pockets
what the fuck happened to using a camera just as a normal, day to day record maker? on digital cameras if your lens is too sharp you just get moire around your crisp tree branches and a flawed lens is like a fingerprint anyways, AI doesnt imitate shitty lenses well. and having a larger sensor is better for capturing more reality without having to let a computer reconstruct it.

do you really settle for running your precious day to day memories through "apple intelligence" which sends them to apples servers whenever possible and ONLY use a "real camera" for pretentious "art"?
>yes i make art with a camera, REALITY SCANNER!
[x] doubt. photography will never be art - music is art, painting is art, they are expressions of the human soul. photography is as artistic as taking a funny screenshot of someone elses movie or video game, only you steal from god. it is not an expression of the human soul and can not be by definition and its nature. only people without souls themselves can mistake it for art. not even the photography in cinema is art, it is just the preservation of theatre and a potential scaffold for an act of art. the act of photography can never be art and a mere photographer can not be an artist. i have a soul and prefer music so i can see this clear as day. photography is a hobby closely related to journaling. music is an art. dare not compare winogrand to bob dylan.

you may hope to be a director for one frame, a screenwriter, that is art, but the mere camera is nothing more than a passive audience, never a creative force, just a witness. no framing can save you, nor any color grade, for what lower art is there than changing the colors of the scene you stole from god? but as an inspiration, for the creation of a whole new world, then the photograph can be respectable, and yet, not the act of art itself.

>>4427000
The print is where the art is.

>>4427000
>giving photos to globohomo?!
In the modern world owning nothing is a virtue, being smart on your own is cringe and craziness, and caring that you are oppressed is the worst thing you can do because you should be grateful towards your masters, and if you were a good person you’d care about the people who are even less fortunate instead of yourself. Even if two things are equally unlikely the self interested one is mental poison to normies.
>your phone can censor and erase your photos at any time
SELFISH, SCHIZO
>trump could ban black people at any time
Reasonable concern for good people

This is literally the result of christian doctrine btw.

>>4427002
Maybe if you painted something on the print because in that framework you’re just recoloring god’s OC so i think the cinefag system works like this
>vfx heavy marvel movie
Art for children
>classic cinema
Records of art
>art house cinema
Art made with photos of art set to an artistic narrative with art playing in the background
>Warhol
Art made from photos
>ansel adams
Plagiarism

>>4427004
Every choice that goes into your print from conception of an idea to the finalized print can and should be a part of your expression. You can even utilize certain techniques to add or take away from the reality of whatever you're photographing.

One example would be lifted emulsion prints.

>>4427007
A LITERAL lost art?

I think this goes in the warhol category (art made from photos) which is still super divorced from the
>me color grade woman standing under tree, me artist
Usual stuff

>photography isnt art!
>fact check: DIGITAL photography isnt art
darkroom chads won

>>4427008
I guess if you're trying to say that the photo as in the digital file or negative is not art, I guess you're right, but that also makes me right that the print is the art of photography.

It's just kind of weird because the photograph and the print are both a part of the same process.
Is the paint, paintbrush, and canvas art? No, the painting is art.

>>4427010
a print is a reproduction
just like you can get print reproductions of a painting

>>4427012
And? Is pic related an exact copy of reality or an expression of reality through a medium of the photographers choice?

Pic is a carbon print. One of the fine art printing techniques.

>>4427013
whatever it is, it's not art

>>4427017
Why not?

>>4427020
because i say so, and no, i will never provide an actual definition of what art is or is not so all future arguing about is pointless
and we should move onto the next topic

>>4427021
A most prodigious concession.

If someone produced an identical image to my previous post with pencil and paper would it become art?

>>4427021
Well, that went out with a whimper.

>>4427032
And I was having fun too.
He should have just shown me his "guy who decides what is and isn't art" badge and we could have called it there.

>>4426980
>but then you can add your own grip of your choosin
If they make one, and if they do it'll just be a chunk of plastic. No larger battery, no shifting the shutter release forward to make room for other buttons, no dial in front of the shutter.
>make it more compact as needed for travel or storage
The tiny bit of extra space taken up by the grip literally doesn't matter, anything you can fit a ZF in you can also fit an A7. Also you're forgetting about the space the detachable grip takes up, unless you're only going to use it around the house.

>>4425895
I don't even have large hands, and a modern Nikon full fame feels like I'm Andre the Giant trying to hold onto something made for normal sized hands, only, I'm normal sized and the cameras are too small.

Certainly a skill issue.

>>4427051
My FF DSLR fits nicely in my normal size hands. Why are you mirrorless folk like to argue so much about nonsense, who's camera is the prettiest? Who's lenses are bigger/smaller? You guys sound like a bunch of nerds all pointless talking and no photographs.

>>4427051
You would've hated older Nikon's, even smaller

>>4427051
>and i feel…
Imagine having feelings lmao sissy. Behold the typical blobber. This is why cameras are now a round soft feminine safe space for giant babies. Even the blobs aren’t blobby enough for them.

Bring back the tyrannical masculinity of the metal brick. But have someone other than panasonic and sigma do it.

>>4427032
that was the plan, back to hand sizes

I wear a cadet small golf glove and the Z8 fits my hand pretty well

>>4427118
Settle down, yid

>>4426754
>don't speak to me or my son ever again

>>4427165
lmao

Redpill me on Sony full frame bodies' ergonomics, how bad is it?

>>4428175
worse than the weather sealing, feels like the word for a permanently inoperable device after snoy pushes a defective firmware update (again)

>>4428175
Just don't get a sony. Do yourself this one favor.

Nikon makes the least retarded cameras (i rented an R6II and it disabled re-selecting auto ISO any time I switched to manual, fuck that)

>>4428191
>>4428184
I was kinda hoping it wasn't too bad. I really like the idea of having IBIS in an affordable body like the a7ii or something.

>>4428260
Sony's are just fine. They're a tad more expensive, and that makes these poorfags seethe. They also pulled a fast one on the DSLR heavyweights by making the jump to mirrorless while convincing the competition to keep investing in DSLR tech, and that makes the boomer canikon owners seethe. Pretty based when you think about it, actually.
T. Sony owner

>>4428260
If you're talking about comfort then they're not bad at all, just not as good as the others. If you're talking about usability then they're good. People complain about the menus but the thing is once you've used the camera for a little bit and got it customised to your preferences you'll rarely need to go into the main menu again.

>>4428261
>reasoning is rooted in spite
Any GOOD reasons to get a Sony? "Just fine" means nothing.

I'm sticking to the 40D.

>>4428260
pre-a7iv ibis is a whopping 2 stops (3 on the a7iv). snoy lies, a lot.

>>4428287
I can imagine it not doing too much with long lenses, I think a slightly less 'jittery' viewfinder would be comfy though.

>>4428260
You wont understand how badly sony screws you until you get a nikon

I like grips because i have huge orge hands and applying more pressure causes instability on the image. Coming from being a /k/ommando and shooting at distance this really helps. Also i love nikon because i can bash my shit around and use my D3 to hammer in nails is objectively neat.

>>4428293
>D3
Based, I low key want one (or a D700) but I'm all in on Canon.

>>4428297
You should, im at 422k shitter snaps and i have not had any problems or any hint of one

>>4428283
Outside of a global shutter, there isn't really one specifically. The auto focus difference is negligible now. That's why Sony pays for so many youtubers and press contracts. They have to convince you.

>>4428342
False. No other brabd comes close to matching Sony's AF. This is why other brands have to pay shills and bots like this one on this board to keep repeating the lie that other brands are "close" to Sony's AF.

>you're a shill
>no you're a shill

>>4428348
I am a Sinar shill, and I am proud of it.

>>4428347
Must explain why everyone always use Sony and no one ever uses anything else

>>4428347
>No other brabd comes close to matching Sony's AF.
Canon legitimately beats it, even the cheapo R8 has better autofocus than the A1 and Z8, but this is the sort of thing where you wouldn't notice unless you were comparing the hit rates while spraying and praying at a quarterback.

>>4428350
It's actually why canon has over 50% of the market share despite making retarded design decisions, being anti-consumer as fuck, and even crippling their professional cameras

>>4428367
>sony goes full lowest bidder with the associated press
>canon still has over 50% market share

>>4428368
AP staff is only a few hundred, not sure why you think a contract of maybe 800 bodies matters much in a market of 8 million sold each year

>>4428381
It's just that people can so plainly see snoy sucks, that even getting the AP to rep them can't budge canon. And canon isn't even that good, it's just cheaper to get a good one vs nikon.

It's the colors, the reputation for ass quality (the $3000 a7cr falls apart), and them being tiny bricks that don't really fit in normal pockets and still attach to predominantly large lenses
>nopancakes
I've had my fair share of snoys and I regretted every one. Their only redeeming quality is that it's very cheap to get a camera with modern specs, but it's going to be fragile, uncomfortable, and a lot of editing work to make up for it.

>>4428395
And you were so frustrated by them that you conveniently deleted every single photo you took from every one of them, so we can't judge you for a skill issue, amirite?

>>4428396
People like you are exhausting to be around.

>>4428347
Hello saar you have found me out. I am professional shill hired to lie for all other camera brands besides Sony. Let me do the needful and say that Sony is not overpriced trash for youtubers and you will miss focus unless buy our new PlayStation camera for half the rupees in India. You can't take a good picture without sickly green skin tones and clinically ugly lenses.

>>4425894 (OP)
90’s “Blob” design. The fucking camera biz never got beyond it. Thankfully Fiji & Nikonos had the sense to appease the neckbearded chucklefucks and go back to 1970s industrial design norms for their authentic urban yuppie models, but even then they forgot everything they used to know about designing with a grip for one handed shooting.

2 checkboxes, 3 puzzle games + a 2 min wait and a captcha. Barely seems worth the fucking trouble to post here anymore.

>>4428401
Tch, everyone knows it's the sun that is green in India

>>4428395
AP still relies thousands of independent contractors, and they can use their own gear and brands of choice

>>4428397
People who just complain about gear and never post pictures are far more exhausting

>>4428448
He's right, you know.

>>4428396
Right, because I'm going to drag up the original raws so i can show you unedited photos of friends and clients on /p/ like some loser furfag/anime con goer with no shame JUST to show you how bad snoy skin tones are

I am totally going to put all that effort in and violate peoples privacy to prove to some gear fanboy on 4chan what the whole world already knows (sony colors are shit and need heavy editing to look decent or heavy camera configuration to at least look stylized but still wrong)

>>4428514
no one asked for original raws
if you take pictures with a camera, you should be able to have an example or two taken from said camera, anything else is cope
>I've had my fair share of snoys
should have a fair share of pictures too
>cope cope cope, yes i am a nophoto larping to own a camera

>>4428526
>nooo, you HAVE To post your unedited client/family/friend pictures to prove snoy has dogshit skin tones that need editing every time
How about no

The entire world already knows snoys have dull colors and are unreliable. It's why canon is still over 50% of the market despite fucking people over at every opportunity and brands that sell nonfunctional overpriced garbage ala apple like fujifilm can stay afloat. Sorry if this offends your brand fanboy sensitivities and you feel your beloved brand has been unfairly bullied but snoy has problems and relies on dishonest influencer marketing, crutches, and canon's fuckups to sell anything at all.

My sirs, I would like to remind you all that Sony is the #2 brand, not the worst, and only because canon is sold in the walmarts, and Sony is making deals with every news agency in the world, and a Sony camera took a photo of the bullet at the trump assassination because the photographer was smart enough to turn his shutter speed up in case there was an assassination. That is because Sony shooters are the most skilled. Shoot Sony, Be Alpha. Even Annie Leibovitz uses Sony, and she is the number one photographer on earth. Apologize to Sony right now.

>>4428448
Both kinds of people are exhausting. That doesn't make either of the anons in question any more tolerable just because one is being a slightly bigger faggot.

>>4428531
anyone that takes enough photos to have a client would have enough spare photos for random shit like this
its all just cope from nophotos, you are larping

>>4428411
Even the sun has dysentery

Yet again, I am not convinced to buy a Sony. At what point do our resident shills start making serious efforts?

>>4428602
What cameras do you use now?

>>4428604
The ones that aren't made by Sony. Any more stupid questions?

>>4428604
I bought a sony a7rv but i tell people not to buy sony because i work for nikon advertising department and must shill against sony

>>4428602
Everyone who buys a sony, at least here where people dont care about size and everyone recommends DSLRs, regrets it unless they somehow think they need some dumb feature or lens

I am genuinely convinced the only actual reason people use sony is the size and weight. Nikon's mount is too big for it and their lenses will always be huge, but if canon with their less comically sized RF mount got over their blob snobbery and release something small, square, and not too crippled that could equal the a7cII's specs, a lot of sony's sales would be gone in an instant.

And yet it wouldn't be enough to drive them out yet, because sony still has the smallest professional and prosumer FF lenses on the market. Trust me when I say this, a lot of rich professionals bought a sony a1 just to use their 24-70 f2 instead of canon's 28-70 f2, and before that, their 24-70 f2.8 GMII, just because it was almost half the weight of canon's lens. Sony is basically full frame micro four thirds. Deeply flawed cameras, but, it's lighter?

>>4428643
>Trust me when I say this, a lot of rich professionals bought a sony a1 just to use their 24-70 f2
That lens doesn't exist. They have a 28-70/2. The f/2 zooms are pointless anyway, they're jusy the brand flexing. Pros use 2.8s like they always have, or primes.

>>4428643
>Sony is basically full frame micro four thirds. Deeply flawed cameras, but, it's lighter?
That would explain why their obsessive fans seem so similar in demeanor - It was overcompensation all along.

>>4428659
The pros use the newer zooms now

>>4428739
>Snoy is foolframe MFTurd
Huh. This sounds like it could be right. Let's explore:
>Both systems are filled with essentially the same class of brandwaring hyperfaggots
>Both systems plagued with similar green tint shittery
>Both systems push the mertis of "muh grams"
It seems like it fits so well, but I think I'm missing some more connections out there

>>4428767
The thing is Sony FF is actually smaller and lighter than Canon and Nikon's offerings, in fact it can often be on par if not smaller than some 4/3s setups. It's also competitively priced. Other advantages over the other systems would be the much greater lens selection, bodies going back over a decade so you have more and cheaper used options, and I'm not sure if it's still the case but they used to be a fair bit more power efficient than Canons.

>>4428864
Nah

>>4428864
But you pay for it with worse hardware quality, worse colors, star eater, heavy vignetting and banding in raws, visibly noisy sensors with below average shadow recovery for full frame, a $2000 camera that cant shoot faster than a d750 (or its direct predecessor the a7iii) without dropping to 12 bit raws, no pancake lenses, uncomfortably front heavy setups, etc

>>4425894 (OP)
But you can just add a grip for your big paws, if they were bigger by default what would people with smaller hands do?

>>4433686
p is incapable of considering the needs or preferences of someone else
anything that isn't fit perfectly to their specific hand size is just bad design

>>4433695
Is arguing in bad faith still a reportable offense? Because you surely are

>>4433698
plenty of examples of p only ever being able to consider their own needs and preferences
if it were, you would've been banned a long time ago bud

>>4433699
>plenty of examples of p only ever being able to consider their own needs and preferences
Ergonomic best practices aren't subjective, this isn't orthopedics they're doing were you cater to a specific person's anatomy. You'd have to be an orthopedics-needing freak for Sony designs to be optimal for you. Like, having Minecraft tier hands.

>>4433702
okay, so which body has the most ergonomically designed grip of them all?
would it be the case that a body you could add from a variety of different grip options be superior to one with fewer grip add on options?

>>4433695
/p/ is one of the few places where ive seen more than 1 person advocate for bodies with zero grip and as little height as possible so they can be exactly DSLR sized with an optional add-on, and exactly film SLR sized otherwise

the only reason the japs havent done this is because they are retarded and design everything with a committee of 50 where seniority trumps all and some of the old fucks think they need to be smaller and some of the other old fucks think they need to look more professional

>>4433702
yes, ergonomics are subjective from this standpoint:
non-disabled people do not care.

i do not have weak bitch hands so whether or not sony ergonomics are optimal do not matter to me. i would love a camera with ZERO grip, leave that shit off for the wedding faggots.

>>4433705
>okay, so which body has the most ergonomically designed grip of them all?
Arguably Nikon D5100, not just the grip but the controls in general.
>>4433705
>would it be the case that a body you could add from a variety of different grip options be superior to one with fewer grip add on options?
Sounds good in paper but doesn't integrate well in reality. Pentax tried it.

>>4433719
>D5100 is peak camera ergonomics
who is bad faith?

>>4433719
>ergonomics are NOT SUBJECTIVE!
>oh and this literal baby camera is an ergonomic masterpiece
Fag.
>Pentax tried it
Pentax sucks at everything they try. If they were a western company in any other industry, they would be called "out of business". But in japabese cameras, going out of business is apparently shameful.

Also see:
OM system (re-releases and parts bin bodies where you can literally swap the parts with older models, actually out of business)
Panasonic (enabling open gate and breaking the autofocus on a nikon z6 is not "making a new camera", actually out of business)

Nikon z6 is fine for me and I have very long fingers

>>4425919
>gayest generation
good for me

>>4425894 (OP)
>you can't hold the new cameras comfortably without adding a grip.
Forced upgrades

(You just answered your own question)

FFS this thing begs to be gripped.

>>4435600
...and thrown in the bin.
What's with the position of the mf/af switch?
And why do they always have a stupid on/off button placement?
Their reliance on a zoomer-compatible touch interface to change shutter speed and aperture is also just awful.

>>4426019
>without a mirror you can now fit a full frame sensor in the small body
Full frame sensors and mirrors could always fit into small bodies.

>>4426216
>Blobbers killed consumerism poorly disguised as a creative art
Based

>>4426974
>What's the goddamn problem with having a preference?
Options in the marketplace are bad for the shareholders.

>>4427000
>only you steal from god
Every thankless act steals from the Lord's glory, as existence itself is only possible through Him.

>>4436885
>>4436880
>>4436869
>>4436867

>>4427003
>In the modern world, owning nothing, but debt, is a virtue
ftfy

>>4436887
>No rebuttal

>>4435603
Whats wrong with touch screens?

>>4436918
What isn't?

>>4436966
Ebin gotcha

>>4436918
Why would I want my camera to control like a fucking smartphone instead of having dedicated switches and dials I can use without switching from looking through the EVF to the LCD?
I swear some of you guys never used a camera.

>>4436918
Touch screens are good for
>pinch and zoom during review
>touch to focus for video
>touch focus as alternative to joystick for stills
They suck for anything else like menu or setting schanges

>>4437364
I agree with this anon.

>>4437207
>Why would I want my camera to control like a fucking smartphone
So you can say that you shoot with Zeiss.

>>4437207
then just use a sony
sony is better than canon unless you have schizophrenia like the sony poster

that'll be €200

Seriously though, why are they so stingy with providing vertical grip support these days? Enthousiast cameras like the 40D all had this option.

>>4425906
I think it was just a convenient place to cram the batteries back when they started making compact autowinders so they had it double as a grip and then it just sort of caught on and they kept doing it.

>>4425894 (OP)
>What happened to camera ergonomics?

Mirrorless happened. Now everything is a rectangular prism again. And because no one gives a fuck about photos anymore and it's all about video, its so that you can throw a shitty smallrig cage on it and a bunch of unessecary gear to "look like a videographer" while doubling the weight of your camera.

>>4443013
blobs are for soulless boomer snapshitters that use a 24-70 and speedlight everywhere to take soulless ken rockwell snapshits. if you use a blob you’re just a phonefag soul in a gearfag body.

bricks are for real artists. every real artist uses a brick.

>>4443013
>having a more generic body that I can customize to my liking, even in different ways for different uses, is bad

>>4443015
>blobs are for soulless boomer snapshitters that use a 24-70 and speedlight everywhere

Blobs have more battery which is what makes them great. Maybe when carbon lithium batteries are actually good cubes will make sense, but until then they suck desu. I'd much rather have a blob and one extra battery than a cube with 4 batteries (also constantly draining via screen or electronic viewfinder) OR a fucking like 2 pound vmount battery.

>ken rockwell snapshits
Holy shit, I'd heard of the guy but never looked at his stuff. How is this guy considered an authority on anything with the most generic, fucking boring gallery I've ever seen. Also KEK the flash on this camera in his photo.

>>4443020
>having a more generic body that I can customize to my liking, even in different ways for different uses, is bad
The criticism is more on people who take the ultra customizable platform, and then proceed to kit out their Sony FX3 or A7SIII and kit it out the exact same way as everyone else. I have my gripes with the cubes but customization is not one of them.

>>4443023
>more battery
Digislug needs to shoot 5000 shot bursts to take one good photo
Sad

>>4443028
>Digislug needs to shoot 5000 shot bursts to take one good photo Sad

Said the retard who's never done client work and been out for a full 1-2 days. Cry on /p/ more and post some more photos. Maybe you'll actually eventually learn something.

>>4443035
>Le client work
No sovl

God I hope my hobby never turns into a job, best way to remove any kind of fun from it.

>>4443081
Go flip burgers while dreaming about a leica you can never afford wagie.

>>4443087
I work at a law firm actually

People who shoot for hours to meet client expectations with battery grip and big zoom do not impress me. People who take time off their med/law job to document poverty with a large format camera do.

>>4443088

>"Um, I'm not a professional. I actually take pictures to exploit poor people with my Hasselblad so actually, I am better than you. NO SOVL."
He types with tears in his eyes.

Oh wow, you're totally right. You're so much better than me anon. You're totally not making up things on anonymous imageboard. I bet, at best if it actually exists this 'law firm' you work at probably processes pro-bono or legally mandated criminal defence or some low-tier shit and you're not even a lawyer (But you tell people you work at a law-fim to seem important. Not that you're an admin/clerk who files paperwork or a janitor.)

But not that any of that matters. You're too up your ass about what's "artistically important". Great media(Even outside the realm of photography and video) can come from people who do not do their artistic work professionally, but do you know where a large majority of that great work comes from? People who do, do that work professionally.

>>4443035
Exactly, battery life is why no professionals at all have switched to mirrorless

>>4443090
Look at all this seethe. He clearly hurt your feelings.

Literal women are doctors and lawyers. Whats your excuse for doing weddings and school portraits on your canoblob instead of “exploiting” bottom feeders with a hasselchad/leichad? Cant pass a drug test?

>>4443092
>Literal women are doctors and lawyers. Whats your excuse for doing weddings and school portraits on your canoblob instead of “exploiting” bottom feeders with a hasselchad/leichad? Cant pass a drug test?
Im actually the president of the united states.

>>4443094
Liar. Don’s a 4x5 chad. Grips are for no talent blue collar snapshitters that would go out of business if everyone bought an ff mirrorless and a f2.8 zoom.

Real niggas dont even need an ergonomic shutter button.

>>4443090
>im not a loser ur a loser
Yearbooks soon protog, i hope your battery grip is ready

>>4443023
>Also KEK the flash on this camera in his photo.
It's a troll photo anon and you got got

>>4443181
But if he's left handed wouldn't he wear his watch on his left wrist?

>>4443183
I don't know what to say man, it's a joke photo and everything he wrote about it was a joke.

>>4443193
But the phallus hide part was definitely real, I use phallus hide to repair my Leica.

>>4443181
imagine reading this and not appreciating ken

>>4425894 (OP)
Canon90D superior

>>4443206
Most anons don't understand that hide doesn't mean to go duck behind some bushes in this context, let alone what phallus might mean.

>>4443181
>wrapping your camera in dick-leather
kek, didn't know that guy had humor like that

>>4443222
Why would you assume it's a joke when phallus hide is a very common material to use? Personally I think the leather made from aborted babies is best, I stop over at my local planned parenthood every week and get a truckload of skins.

>>4426902
>let people add the extra size back on with a grip
The grip would need its own shutter button. They realized this back in the day when making power winders (pic rel). If you put a 'dumb' grip on a classic SLR, your index finger needs to stretch backwards in a weird way that is, besides subjective discomfort, objectively poor design as it would increase the time taken for you to adjust other settings with that finger (such as a front dial) and return to the shutter button.
In reality cameras should look like pic rel, except without the lower winder mechanism (so just the body and the grip section). A totally flat gripless brick is retarded besides specific cases like Leica M or compacts (and even then a shallow grip like on the GR/GXR series is superior and perfectly inoffensive). At the very least a camera needs a grip like that on the Pentax LX or Program A to not waste the user's grip strength on nonsense like trying to pinch the sides of one's middle and ring fingers against flat leatherette effectively 'gripping' with the knuckles rather than, you know, the parts of the hand actually made for gripping things.

>>4425894 (OP)
>but with normal to large hands, you can't hold the new cameras comfortably without adding a grip.
then add a grip. they're only $249.99 plus tips.