It doesn't seem to be energetically nor entropically ideal

>>507083616 (OP)
Doesn't entropy drive the selection pressures needed for natural selection? I have a question for theists, how does god explain how the universe was created? If there's a god then god can't create the universe because the universe created God.

>>507083616 (OP)
no they can't even explain consciousness

>>507084049
I have a question for atheists. If you are so skeptical of things that can't be proven deductively, why do you trust your senses (Hume's problem of induction)? In fact, why do you trust mathematical systems (which are axiomatic, like religions)?

>>507083616 (OP)
They don't even know what gender they are.. what do you think?

>>507083616 (OP)

>>507084049
>If there's a god then god can't create the universe because the universe created God.
God wasn't created, He always was. God existed logically prior to the existence of time since He created time and therefore wouldn't need a temporal becoming like everything else in existence besides things that exist necessarily (God, numbers, shape definitions, laws of logic, etc)

>>507085286

>>507085286

>>507083616 (OP)
>Why life exists
I don't know the "why".

>>507085303
God existed logically at the end of time as well because all transformations/changes/evolution lead to the development of God. Our purpose begins and ends with God. You can see it everywhere.

>>507084049
I'm somewhat theistic, former reddit atheist. The creation debate is a complete waste of time imo. I don't think science or religion has a good explanation.
It's either god created the universe from nothing, or nothing+everything outside of time exploded by itself. Both are equally crazy ideas.

>>507085177
>why do you trust your senses
Because of the consequences they produce

>>507083616 (OP)
I think a soup of chemicals formed a membrane over a puddle that prevented the puddle from drying out. This membrane forms the basis for all life on earth.

>>507083616 (OP)
It's called "abiogenesis." It's not well understood, but I think it's reasonable to consider the possibility that a bunch of chemicals and processes converted to create organic matter.

>>507084049

You, like every atheist before you, are jumping ahead and anthropomorphizing God like a Christian would about sixty degrees of deduction into the process. At the stage you're talking about, God could be any kind of intelligent entity outside of time. Aliens, time spirits, or any kind of uncaused causer like an infinitely folding m-theory string.

You're also mis-defining universe. If the universe is the space we occupy as beings of matter in time, then God is outside the universe and controls it. If you're talking about all existence, then God is the universe itself, having always been before all other caused subdivisions.

>>507085056
Neither can christcucks. You just blindly believe a book written by bronze age kikes as being the ultimate truth of the universe.

>>507085177
I trust my senses in the same way I trust that the ground I walk on isn't suddenly going to collapse. It's a mundane, constant presence in life.
The jump from that to believing Jesus had magical powers is quite wide.

>>507083616 (OP)
There is no why. It just happened
Life is without a deeper purpose beyond biological imperatives

>>507083616 (OP)
life exist to use energy

>>507083616 (OP)
>It doesn't seem to be energetically nor entropically ideal
It’s not it just wastes energy

But there is energy to waste at least for now so here’s your answer Op

>>507083616 (OP)
Life is recursive and fractal, and i think it's a mistake to try and measure the "why" of life through the metric of "time" as we know it and experience it. But that's what we're gonna do regardless, we're gonna try explain life through arguments that depend on "when". No answer's gonna be found like that.

My opinion is that everything acts as a self referential feedback loop with no beginning and no end, or rather, with beginning and end being the same thing. The closer you get to truth the more duality collapses and things like these surface, it gets paradoxical. Esoteric mysticism in common religions explain this through ineffability, God in these religions acts as a singularity and the cause for things to even happen. It makes no sense because we think binary and discard paradox.

>>507085727
Theres a reason why Christianity has been the dominating religion for 2000 years, because it works and it ingrains good morals and ethics into society. Watch how the world has been turned upside down and everything that was bad and degenerate in the past is now good and brave. This is not a coincidence, someone is manufacturing and perpetrating everything going on around us and i can tell you this much they aren't Christians nor do they follow Jesus Christ. I got a feeling they despise him just like you do, so that tells me everything i need to know about you.

>>507085699
>God is the universe itself
this is how i see it.
Science describes causality with matter and energy. But it leaves out value, choice, and morality. God is all of that combined. But that's just my opinion.

>>507085832
>My opinion is that everything acts as a self referential feedback loop with no beginning and no end, or rather, with beginning and end being the same thing.
This is dumb as shit, asteroids that hit each other until it becomes a planet don’t ever go back to being asteroids, if you have elemental carbon in dixoygdn and you set it on fire, it will transform into CO2 and it will never convert back

There si no loop, sometimes there can be loops, because there is a source of energy (sun rays) but it’s all one way otherwise
When the sun runs out of gas and it will, all reversible cyclical processes including life will stop

>>507085874
>everything that was bad and degenerate in the past is now good and brave
Everything including christianity itself. You can't stop change, things decay and rise cyclically. Wanting to maintain something static is a pipe dream. Growth requires death, and change is there to represent that death.

>>507085965
That would mean there would be something higher than God , ie truth in itself. The law of identity transcends patter and causes

>>507085965
>>God is the universe itself
>this is how i see it.
>>507085699
The Bible explicitly states god has a kingdom above the clouds, in the sky, that he got a 13 year old pregnant and that he turns into a fire tornado and talks, and that he writes on stones with lightening, the Bible also says god is conscious sapient makes decision has a mind similar to a human mind and talks

Whatever your idea of god is it has nothing to do with the Christian god

>>507086233
Be aware that the texts of the Bible are not monolithic , the different styles of writings must be taken into account. So before going full on atheist , look at the interpretations of the text. That way you will engage with the religion and not the shadow you made up in your mind.

The first idea of God is simple , he is pure existence, the Logos , in other words the eternal principle of Logic. We can't really view it with only one angle Because it's too great to grasp fully this entity , with multiple ones we can ger an image tho.

>>507083616 (OP)
>It doesn't seem to be energetically nor entropically ideal

Life works perfectly within the laws of thermodynamics and entropy drives evolution/survival of the fittest. Why do christcucks always sound like brainlets attempting to sound smart? It's so hatable.

>>507086000
You're not wrong about entropy within a closed system, but you're being purely literal about it. I'm talking about structure, not just one energy event. Your combustion example obeys rules embedded in a structure, the question is, where do those rules come from? Why does reality express predictable, scalable patterns at all?

Recursive doesn’t mean "the same asteroid loops back", it means the same principles repeat across scales, atoms spiral like galaxies, minds loop like orbits, death reflects birth...etc. Time itself is a loop in higher resolution. You're talking about peaces and i'm talking about the syntax that arranges those pieces.

As for the existence of life proving God , we first need to define what is life in order to see if it's possible to show the existence of a will/conscience before our time. So , any idea on a good definition of life anons ?

>>507085727
What more of an explanation do you need

>>507085177
Because my senses produce consistent results, believing in a magic kike tribal diety that rules over everything because a book of bronze-age kike fairytales says so does not.

>>507086501
>Be aware that the texts of the Bible are not monolithic , the different styles of writings must be taken into account. So before going full on atheist , look at the interpretations of the text. That way you will engage with the religion and not the shadow you made up in your mind.
>all this cope
Is the Bible true or is it false
It’s a very binary question
If the Bible is true then god is as described in the Bible, a sapient talking entity who does miracles and gets Mary pregnant, not "everything is divine" new age concept

>>507085874
No lol it has been dominating like 1000 years and it was transformed 3 times

>>507086035
>Everything including christianity itself.
I agree, but that doesn't mean that the individual Christian has been corrupted.. It's stated in the bible that the church would become corrupted and deceivers would try to lure people to hell through his name.

>>507086651
I do not ascribe by the new age concept.
I was aiming at the literal city in the sky , not at the virgin birth.
As again, you can say that a letter and a poem are both true , but the truth will be expressed differently.
You do not read the vision of a prophet like the description of your workplace do you ?

Christians can't explain why God allows christians to retarded enough to give all their money away megachurch pastor private jet funds.

>>507086807
Says the opposite, the church will not dissapear even if the waves are of the dpeth of death. This is in principle that is.

>>507086586
>where do those rules come from?
No one knows it’s nature and origin of the universe kind of questions

> Why does reality express predictable, scalable patterns at all?
Because reality is made of a finite number of stuff, atoms and particles, that always interact the same way
Copper is copper everywhere in the universe
A photon is a photon
If you compress universe it will release energy in fusion
Hydrogen attracts hydrogen and if you have enough it compresses itself

So there are stars everywhere

If you spin you loop around
So any planet has day night cycles unless tidally locked
You always eject heat through radiation but you only absorb heat if a heat source is shining at you. So it gets hot during the day and cold during the night everywhere in the universe on a cycle. Not that fascinating really

>>507086586
>atoms spiral like galaxies,
Do they though
All simulations of electrons shows energy densities that look like the hair of Krusty the clown, emanations in some directions, nothing in other it doesn’t orbit in a parabola like planets do

>minds loop like orbits,
What
> death reflects birth...etc.
... what?
Birth is irrelevant, conception is more relevant and the egg cell is just a machine that turns itself creates an embryo using the foot next to it
Death is a complex machine being critically damaged and failing system by system

>Time itself is a loop in higher resolution.
No it doesn’t what are you talking about
>You're talking about peaces
Pieces
>and i'm talking about the syntax that arranges those pieces.
You haven’t yet provided any example of actually repeating stuff

The only fundamental law of logic type thing I can think of that’s entirely cyclical is spinning in space
It costs no energy and repeats forever

>>507083616 (OP)
Good job OP, you identified the 'gap problem' in evolutionary biology
We can explain lateral movements well, such as a cell obtaining a new enzyme pathway from another cell
But we cannot explain the emergence of entire pathways of interlinked enzymes + their regulating molecules
The atheist cotnradiction is believing life could evolve from nothing, AND that entropy is consistently applied in the Universe

Which, if anything be consistently applied across the Universe, must be a universal law, contained....somewhere ?
Does 1+1=2 always, or not ?

>>507086889
Never stated it would disappear or be destroyed.. but false teachers will come and they will use the church as you are seeing around the world.

>>507087019
I know where the rules comes from , they come from truth. One way or another the first cause is truth.

>>507086821
Your interpretation is completely different from all previous Christianity
Early day Christians all believed in the end of the world within their lifetime
When it didn’t happen it was retconed to "soonTM but nobody can know when"
For all of early church and medieval times, everything in the Bible was taken seriously. The interpretation of "oh it’s just a joke/metaphor" would have you burned at the stakes for 95% if Christianity’s history. You’re a complete heretic, halfway to atheism already

>>507087075
>The atheist cotnradiction is believing life could evolve from nothing
No, it isn't.

>>507087158
>One way or another the first cause is truth.
What created or caused the first cause schizo

>>507087142
Oh i see , sorry for misreading your post

>>507085874
>There's a reason why pop music is popular

>>507087223
Truth doesn't concern itself with the properties of time or the logical pathways , it provoques them. It's something beyond the causes and the effects

>>507087256
No worries, happends to the best of us especially when talking to multiple people in one thread.

>>507087262
Because it sounds good to most people. Whats your point?

>>507087166
Give exemples instead of yapping

>>507083616 (OP)
What does that have question have to do with atheism? You're so deluded that you made up some explanation for a question that's important to you, and you concluded that if someone doesnt follow your doctrine they must be answering the same questions with differently.

>>507087341
>my explanation doesn’t concern itself with things like logic

>>507084049
Imagination basically

>>507085699
There is 0 proof for any of this. The "god" that you're describing is the sum-total of everything. The "omniverse". And I highly doubt that the collection of everything is anything like a "diety" so religion/thiesm are pointless and scientific study of how reality actually works is the best we can get at actually understanding it.

>>507087422
It literally doesn't when you're dealing with an infinite field of pure energy. Logic is a byproduct of creation, not the mechanism through which it manifests.

>>507085177
I have a question for theists. If god is real, why does poop smell?

>>507087422
I am the worshipper of logic , i have seen it's eternal reality. Truth is not caused , this is what i'm repeating since the begining of this thread.

>>507086651
things can be true in different ways.
>God's throne is on the clouds (Isaiah 66:1)
>the kingdom of God is a spiritual/eschatological thing and not a physical location (Luke 17:20-21, John 18:36)
both are true, one is just using literal language and one is using figurative language.
no one thinks God is literally sitting on a cloud with his feet on earth, Isaiah 66:1 is to be read as saying God is transcendent.

>>507087193
Then you don't see the problem in extreme organization arising while all else disperses to equilibrium
Entropy = tendency towards equilibrium
There are 10+ enzymes involved in Glycolysis, a very basic pathway
Each enzyme is regulated by the previous, and the next
How did this happen randomly ?
'It just did'

>>507085874
>Theres a reason why Christianity has been the dominating religion for 2000 years, because it works and it ingrains good morals and ethics into society.

It doesn't work, and every bit of it's explanation of reality has been refuted by scientific study. Christcucks are the whole reason kikes are in control of the west's financial system in the first place, and the majority of rapefugee replacement resettlement organizations are christ-cuck run. The biggest simps for israel in the west are cuckservative christcucks. You are a universalist, proto-communist, subversive jewish deathcult.

>>507086501
>Be aware that the texts of the Bible are not monolithic , the different styles of writings must be taken into account.

LMAO what a massive cope. It's bullshit brown, get over it.

>>507087446
It's just pantheism. It was people turn to when they've given up on the fables but they're still too scared to face reality.

>>507086000
Space is fake thoughbeit

>>507085328
We are not so different, you and i

>>507086616
Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean it's true. That's objective reality 101. Christcucks are effeminate, they put emotions over logic so they can continue believing in their imaginary friend because it makes them feel special/important.

>>507087391
Bruno was burned alive for saying the stars were distant suns and not little lights on the dome of the firmament that was moved around by an angel using a hand crank

In total the jesuits alone (created 15th century) killed and tortured to death several million Europeans for heresy
Early on before the renaissance any book that contained things the Bible disagreed with was burned, in total 2300 libraries were burned in the Roman Empire including the library of Alexandria for disagreeing with the Bible and just being books in general
Endless quotes of early Christian saints containing condemnation of knowledge and those who seek to learn or know the truth
You’re french and you don’t even remember the hugenots, calvinistes, hussites, vaudois, cathare, bogomiles, paulitiens, lollards and ariens
And these all operated within the acceptable limit before being declared heretical, anything further from Christian cannon would have you immediately tortured and executed with your entire family

Including interpreting the Bible as metaphorical like you’re doing.

>>507087870
Ok satan

>>507087520
>Logic is a byproduct of creation, not the mechanism through which it manifests.
What do you know about the mechanism through which creation manifests lmao

Also mechanisms are literally a consequence of causality

>>507087589
>both are true, one is just using literal language and one is using figurative language.

More like:

>"I choose to believe that some parts of the Bible are literal while others are metaphor because otherwise my world view collapses."

Typical christcuck coping mechanism.

>>507087899
Well , since we're talking about historical records and stuff, i can use the reddit move :
Source ? I want historical documents

>>507087589
>Luke 17:20-21
The book of Luke is from 2 generations after Jesus and after the promised end times hadn’t happened within the deadline they were prophecised to have happened

>>507087019
You’re describing what happens, not why it coheres. I never denied stars form or heat radiates, that’s not recursion, it’s repetition. The laws that govern that repetition, that’s structure. You say we don’t know where they come from, but that’s my entire point. You say particles interact the same way across the universe, that’s the fractal and the recursion, it's patterns embedded in patterns. What is a law of physics? it's a feedback principle that reflects itself across scales.

You’re right that electrons don’t spiral like planets but you're making a surface comparison. I'm talking about the logic behind spin, orbit and recurrence scales, not the shapes themselves. The syntax of motion is recursive, there's tension, resolution and flow. About the birth/death, again, youre stuck on meat, right now i'm talking about the function not the flesh. A lung expands and contracts, a circuit charges and discharges. Polarity collapses into coherence and re-emerges, this isn't philosophical babble, they’re structural principles, the things axioms are made of.

You're also saying spinning is the only pure loop, ok, then ask yourself, why is spin so fundamental? Why does spin show up from quantum particles to galactic arms? You don’t get that from heat equations, you get that from field logic and symmetry. Look up the wheeler Feynman absorber theory or Penrose's conformal cyclic cosmology. Time symmetry and recurrence models exist in physics, you're clinging to this one framework as if it's the only one valid to provide explanations, and it only covers a corner of the terrain. I'm talking about the shape of the map itself.

>>507086651
Also, there is esoteric and exoteric representations of God in the Bible, and pretty much any religious framework. The anthropomorphic version of God isn't the only one depicted in the Bible, that's the one that's easy to sell as it's binary and can be interpreted literally.

>>507083616 (OP)
Chemical reactions?

>>507087520
Ok stop , logic is the divinity , the law of Identity apply to God , logic as didactic reasoning is however an expression of it through time.

>>507088024
>Well , since we're talking about historical records and stuff, i can use the reddit move :
Of course you can, you are Reddit incarnate

https://www.famous-trials.com/bruno/261-home
https://www.famous-trials.com/bruno/266-summary
Second link lists the documents made by the Vatican from the period

>>507087679
>Christcucks are the whole reason kikes are in control of the west's financial system in the first place
Prove that with your atheist system you wouldn't have gotten subjugated by financial schemes and deceiving liars.. they are clearly not following the words of Christ, so you claiming that Christians and kikes are from the same flock is an idiotic fallacy that bears no weight.. as you can't prove any of the nonsense you preach.
>>507087869
I think many would feel that way if they knew the truth. Those who knows.. nose.

>>507083616 (OP)
What are you even talking about? Energy is "added" to earth all the time from the sun

>>507085592
>>507085745
>>507086626
>>507087568
Here, this is spoonfeeding for you philosophically retarded individuals:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

If you base your worldview on inductive reasoning, as each of you has proposed, you have no intellectual high ground over someone else who does the same, e.g., a pentecostal snake handling mom of 6 in Alabama who observes that her prayers almost always come true.

>>507086233
"above the clouds" simply means not of this earth. "above the clouds" encompasses a whole fucking lot of extra space, retard. it's you inserting your gaytheist redditor sky daddy shit in there that makes you think it means there's solid ground and blue skies above the clouds with a grey bearded old man telling people what to do.

>>507087899
Well said. Christcucks have been holding back europeans, not helping us. It's basically the (((communism))) of antiquity. White Europeans fell into irrelevance, despotism, and geopolitical weakness for over a thousand years under christcuckoldry and dominated the world when we embraced scientific study and technological progress.

>>507087166
>The interpretation of "oh it’s just a joke/metaphor" would have you burned at the stakes for 95% if Christianity’s history.

based, we should go back to that, redditor atheists like you are fucking insufferable and i'd gladly see you go extinct

>>507085177
Math proves itself realiable and useful for real world tasks time and time again. Prayers don't.

>>507088326
Prove it.. you can't. You are just spewing shit from your ass hoping it hits something like a broad spectrum antibiotic. Why are you atheists so dishonest not only with yourself but with everyone else around you?

>>507088184
You literally banned the lending of money and then put kikes in power to do it for you. The rest is history. The west was 100% Christian when kikes took full power and the US is 80% Christian today and we are the epicenter for global ZOG.

Denying this is pathetic.

>>507088184
> Prove that with your atheist system you wouldn't have gotten subjugated by financial schemes and deceiving liars..

Good point, the west is pretty much athiest now and look at the satanic shit thats going on. Athiests are the biggest goys, as per written down in the protocols in 1901

>>507088012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics
>>507088035
>The book of Luke is from 2 generations after Jesus
i disagree
>after the promised end times hadn’t happened within the deadline they were prophecised to have happened
this promise you're speaking of wasn't made
>but what about Luke 9:27??
that's talking about the transfiguration, which happens immediately after that verse

But there is a god and he has created infinite universes. OP is gay in all of them for some reason but hey, that's what god want so how can I question it?

>>507088513
How do you know?.. do you have any idea how prayers work in the first place, if you're of a scientists mind you'd know that something that can't be proven nor disproven. People 200 years ago didn't even know they were breathing oxygen, or what an atmosphere was.. who are you to disprove prayer with no evidence on hand. You atheists are the same, you trust science so much you'd kill the ones closests to you if the "scientists" told you it was "safe & effective".. you wouldn't even do your own research you'd just go along, you'd just follow along like mindless sheep over the cliff.

>>507083616 (OP)
This is a very astute observation, actually The organic chemistry textbook I’m reading through for my class atm actually happens to address this same question within the context of chemical reactions, so I’ll just quote a few of the more relevant sentences on the topic here,

“Yes, it is true that many of the reactions to ones employed by life are not spontaneous *by themselves*. But when coupled with other highly favorable reactions, such as the metabolism of food, the total entropy (system plus surroundings) does actually increase.”

“Living organisms do not violate the second law of thermodynamics—quite the opposite, in fact. Living organisms are prime examples of entropy at its finest. Yes, we do impose order on our environment, but that is only permitted because we are *entropy machines*. We give off heat to our surroundings and consume highly ordered molecules (food) and break them down into smaller, more stable compounds with much lower free energy. These features allow us to impose order on our surroundings, because our net effect is to increase the entropy of the universe.”

>>507088226
What does this have to do with what I said exactly?

>>507088513
See >>507088226

You are giving math merit based on its inductive properties; not even mathematicians do that. They use deduction from a finite set of axioms to make statements they believe are true (or at least that they believe are self-consistent).

>>507089017
You have induced a causal relationship between your senses and their perceived consequences. There is no deductive proof for this, and if there is it exists only in an axiomatic framework (on par with religious axioms).

>>507088226
>If you base your worldview on inductive reasoning, as each of you has proposed, you have no intellectual high ground over someone else who does the same,

LMAO. Spoken like a true brainlet.

>>507083616 (OP)
No but panentheists absolutely can and religious fags and atheists can't.

>>507083616 (OP)
Non-polar molecules dont want to be close to water
Life is just a mechanism to sort Non-polar molecules away from water.

>>507088586
You still haven't proven that your atheist system would be any different, so i'm gonna deny you that arguement and satisfaction. Jesus literally told us not to deal with money lenders and even wrecked havoc in their synagogoes, and people went ahead and did it anyways.. and then you have the audacity to blame Christ for your own mistakes. Pathetic. I'm debt free, never had to deal with loans or kikes.. because God provides everything i need to sustain myself.

>>507089109
>ad hominem
Not an argument, my friend.

>>507088566
Alright you little faggy polack, where's the valuables? Otherwise it's time for some schwedentrunk.

>>507089023
>You are giving math merit based on its inductive properties
Explain how you don't do the same with things in your life
>not even mathematicians do that
Incorrect
>>507089023
>they believe are true
2+2=4 isn't a belief

>>507089089
>You have induced a causal relationship between your senses and their perceived consequences. There is no deductive proof for this
Incorrect. As the consequences lead me to make deductions about future actions.

I don't need to stick my hand in a flame to know its hot

>>507083616 (OP)

The natural sciences do not answer "why" questions. "Why" implies intentions and agency.

>>507089214
If I do, I don't claim intellectual superiority over others that do.
>2+2=4 isn't a belief
It is. Mathematical statements such as these are based on a set of axiomatic assumptions, e.g.: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zermelo%E2%80%93Fraenkel_set_theory

Mathematicians pride themselves on deductibly provable statements. For such deductions to be made, there must be a starting point. These are the axiomatic beliefs they assert, without proof, from which other beliefs are derived.

>>507089189
>Alright you little faggy polack
Truth hits hard doesn't it achmed, stay mad faggot.
>where's the valuables?
Up your ass, should start digging for them might find something else than atheist garbage you spew.
>Otherwise it's time for some schwedentrunk.
Oh no some faggot from swedistan is threathing me in german.. If i was you i'd forget about posting on /pol/ and try to fix my country. But then again, you couldn't fix a clog in a drain.

>>507089315
You ignored part of my statement.

>>507088659
>jesus born
>6-4 Before Jesus
How did Christians fuck that one up so bad?

>>507088910
Nowadays there’s a scientific explanation for almost everything really, and a few plausible theories for those things in the universe we truly don’t know or understand.

If you’re really looking for something real that is fundamentally incompatible with our current scientific understanding of the world though, your best bet is probably the existence of free will. Our microscale scientific models as they stand now are very deterministic by design, which makes them fundementally incompatible with the idea of free will.

Science has no problem explaining how something like the human mind can come to exist evolutionarily in more abstract terms, but utterly fails in explaining how that results in the conscious, living experience we have in our everyday lives. Our scientific models as they exist now not only fail to explain free will, but would go so far as to fundementally disprove it in itself if it wasn’t something we all know we have just by living every day life. If there is any kind of “magic” in this world, I’d put my money on it being whatever the hell it is that makes us conscious, independently acting beings in the first place.

>>507083616 (OP)
Yeah, so like a bunch of chemicals were near each other, probably in some sort of warm pond, then chemical reactions took place and they formed proto-cells.

Simple as.

>>507089469
>I don't claim intellectual superiority over others that do.
Neither do i
>>507089469
>axiomatic assumptions
Oxymoron
>>507089499
I replied to the parts thst are relevant

>>507089214
>2+2=4 isn't a belief
in epistemology, a belief is a propositional attitude, an intentional mental state where an agent holds a proposition to be true.
the proposition 2+2=4 is a mathematical statement that (in standard arithmetic) is true by definition within the formal system of peano axioms.
if someone says "2+2=4," they are expressing a propositional attitude toward its truth (a belief)

>>507089743
In epistemology, the statement "2+2=4" is not typically considered a belief but rather a mathematical truth or a tautological statement within a formal system

>>507089089

Sure it's logical to doubt every inductive, empirical, sensory input.

But if you are doing that, how can you then also "believe" in some religious claptrap that you acquired through those very sames senses..?

Nobody comes to religion alone. All religion is acquired, passed through, social experience

You could argue that there's an inmate human belief in the transcendental/metaphysical...
but isnt that same belief, that same
psychological afliction, also a result of sensory experience?

>>507088886
>you wouldn't even do your own research you'd just go along, you'd just follow along like mindless sheep over the cliff.

Yeah you right.... Why the fuck a wheel is round ? Let's try a square one next time ! I need to do my own research.
That's exactly how we became the ruler of this planet you absolute fucking retarded nigger ... by learning from our ancestors. I don't need to touch fire everyfucking time to know it will burn me.
I don't trust like a mindless sheep. I'm trying to learn from my predecessor and reach above nigger IQ

>>507085874
> Theres a reason why Christianity has been the dominating religion for 2000 years, because it works and it ingrains good morals and ethics into society.
If you cannot behave yourself without external coercion, you are niggerbrained.

>>507085303
>Warrbles wasn't created, He always was. Warrbles existed logically prior to the existence of time since He created time and therefore wouldn't need a temporal becoming like everything else in existence besides things that exist necessarily (Warrbles, numbers, shape definitions, laws of logic, etc)

I can suppose too

Life is a freak aylium experiment. Of course something/someone has to be hehind this, I don't believe it all happened out of odd chance.

>>507089023
>All this psuedo-intellectual bullshit and it's just a manchild's attempt at making his imaginary friend real.

>>507089184
You didn't have an arguement to begin there.

there is a god but jesus and muhammad were both gay

Can god lovers explain why would god make my wife infected by a tick and retarded and crippled for the rest of her life?

Thank you very much, god!

>>507083616 (OP)
Can you explain what energetically or entropically ideal means

>>507083616 (OP)
>It doesn't seem to be energetically nor entropically ideal
Ideal? Nothing is. But the fact that life is so inefficient should tell you that perhaps there is no "why."

>>507089740
>Neither do i
Good. You clearly shouldn't.
>>axiomatic assumptions
>Oxymoron
It is not an oxymoron; actually, it was a bit redundant.
>I replied to the parts thst are relevant
You did not.

>>507089163
The only nations that are dominated by kikes are christcucked ones. The only nations that being drowned in non-whites are christcucked ones. South America is even more christcucked than the US and it's literally a mixed race shithole filled with mutts and mongrels.

>>507089825
it's a justified true belief, which is a belief.
>>507089999
we're speaking of the same entity with the same properties, you're just giving it a funny name.
one of the gayest arguments against the ontological argument.

>>507090155
Clearly he/they think it's funny, you just don't have a sense of humor he/they do.

And why would god create infected ticks in the first place

Last time I heard the world was created for you?

>>507089835
>But if you are doing that, how can you then also "believe" in some religious claptrap that you acquired through those very sames senses..?
not saying I'm religious, but a religious person could easily obtain such beliefs the same way mathematicians do -- axiomatically

>>507090041
>>507090080
>more ad hominem
Unable to address the point, are we?

>>507085177
What else is to trust? The fat priest with whole ossuary in his closet?

>>507083616 (OP)
Dawkins is culturally Christian now.

It's not even funny to mock him anymore. The guy literally had to hide behind Christians after insulting Muslims.
He thought he could mock Islam the same way he has been mocking Christianity for years, and got spooked.
He's an attention whore, who shocks people in order to sell his subpar books.

It's not 2010 anymore, he's not relevant and neither is the movement.

Though he's right on one thing. Believing in flying old Jewish man who demands foreskins, it's just destructive to the west.

(I am not an atheist btw).

>>507090259
>It is not an oxymoron
It is
>>507090259
>>I replied to the parts thst are relevant
>You did not
I did.

Do you have a counter argument? No? Ok

>>507090269
>it's a justified true belief, which is a belief
Belief is irrelevant as its true regardless of belief

>>507090269
>we're speaking of the same entity with the same properties, you're just giving it a funny name.
I'm demonstrating that you can literally replace God with anything and the supposition still stands.

>>507087446
>the sum-total of everything
The term universe was coined to denote this, "everything as one." People want to say things like "this universe" and "that other universe" but that's not how the word is supposed to work.

>>507090296
Plum island - Americans made the tick into a weapon. It was modified by Satan's asshole

>>507089933
> I'm trying to learn from my predecessor and reach above nigger IQ
How is that going for you.. any progress? Because you seem stuck on the same evolutionary step.

>>507089953
Again the truth hurts you faggots harder than anything else, and you claim to be for fact and truth. I didn't know it was possible to fool yourself as much as you faggots have done.. it's baffling.

I love and hate the nature and the realities of life, but sometimes I get angry at people who deny the hard truths of uncaring reality

Sometimes even I want to pray to god, it doesn't make him her anymore real fr fr

>>507089953
This

>>507090776
>Sometimes even I want to pray to god
Which one?

>>507083616 (OP)
>Can atheists explain why life exists?
no
>It doesn't seem to be energetically nor entropically ideal
but not because of this reason lol. this is just a bad reading of it

>>507090265
>The only nations that are dominated by kikes are christcucked ones
Riiight, so you don't think the kike operates in india and china.. you folks are dumber than i first expected.
> South America is even more christcucked than the US and it's literally a mixed race shithole filled with mutts and mongrels.
It's a mixed world, how about you do something about it instead of complaining like a little bitch blaming everything else than the actual problems.. faggots like you who claim to be white and for the race yet you are first to attack other whites seems abit off to me.

>>507085874
That’s one explanation as to why Christianity could have been so successful, but I personally don’t see the religion as so morally just and pure compared to other religions that this satisfactory. I find the alternative explanation; that Christianity has seen so much success because it is extremely fine-tuned to encourage its belief and the conversion of others, to be much more convincing.

Christianity as a religion is unlike others in that it doesn’t just claim to help you in finding a better afterlife, it demands it. The religion promises the best reward comprehensively possible to any who believe in it (heaven) and the worst imaginable punishment possible to those who don’t believe (hell). This makes believers want to maintain their belief in the religion at all costs, even if it means thinking and acting in ways which are otherwise irrational. This extends to their peers as well, who the well-meaning Christian feels morally obligated to save from hell at all costs, and their children who must be saved at all costs as well, which means indoctrinating them at a young age.

There are lots of other factors which make Christianity such a perfect religion for self-propagation such as its lack of ethnic supremacist beliefs or overly-strict practices making it adaptable to a large amount of people, as well as the ease by which it has been able to incorporate other religions by incorporating pagan gods into the Christian pantheon as “saints”.

The absolutist belief in eternal damnation for non believers and eternal reward for believers however, has been one of the key beliefs allowing Christianity to be so successful however until recently, as more and more people find the idea that a benevolent god would do such a thing to people for simply not believing in him to be absurd. With how otherwise well-adapted and entrenched the religion is however, it’s very unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon.

>>507088035
>The book of Luke is from 2 generations after Jesus
Not only that, it was just a fanfiction story using Mark as source material, which was fanfiction that used Paul's letters as source material. Christians had a hundred different versions of Jesus' story before it was all codified in the Bible hundreds of years after it supposedly happened.

>>507088184
>Prove that with your atheist system
Aren't countries like Denmark and Norway highly atheist and they're fully controlled by jews?

>>507090815
For me it's the long haired jesus guy
My fav

>>507088886
>do you have any idea how prayers work in the first place, if you're of a scientists mind you'd know that something that can't be proven nor disproven.
That’s false actually prayers are disproven by the fact you can observe any number of people pray for things and they never happen

I guess god is just very camera shy
At least aliens get caught on always blurry out of focus images, meanwhile god is so afraid of cameras that no miracle ever happens even in blurry footage!

All you need for basic forms of life is right chemical conditions. Once life exists, natural selection means life will continue to be optimised for survival, becoming more complex and resilient over time.

>>507083616 (OP)
It actually is.

>>507090567
>It was modified by Satan's asshole
>god made Satan who made tics
May I ask why?

>>507083616 (OP)
It just does okay

>>507091009
China is an atheist country and no jews

>>507084049
>entropy drive the selection pressures needed for natural selection?
No

>>507085874
The world was infinitely more degenerate in the past. Things were far worse for far more people...you are misperceiving reality in the way a young ignorant person tends to do. You mistake amplification for existence. I guarantee you people were far more likely to be beaten to death randomly in any era of Christian domination. Guarantee you far more kids were abused. Etc

You say look how bad the world is while basically all measures of human existence are going up relentlessly

>>507090463
>Belief is irrelevant as its true regardless of belief
your claim that "belief is irrelevant because it's true regardless of belief" is a category error.
you're conflating ontological truth (the fact that 2+2=4 in arithmetic) with epistemic justification (how we HOLD that truth)
even if a proposition is objectively true, calling it true itself is a doxastic act, a belief.
to say "i know 2+2=4 is to express a belief in its truth, regardless of its independent validity.

under the justified true belief model, knowledge is a species of belief
>assent to proposition 2+2=4
>derived from axioms/proof
>corresponds to formal aarithmetic
you can't claim to know 2+2=4 without believing it.
if "belief is irrelevant to truth" then all knowledge (even "i exist") would exist in a vaccuum untethered from minds, but epistemology is about how minds grasp truth.
by your logic, a rock "knows" 2+2=4 because truth exist independently, but rocks don't know, minds do, via belief.
even if 2+2=4 is analytic, the moment you assert it, you're in the domain of belief. denying this is like saying "i don't believe modus ponens, it's just valid," validity doesn't negate your acceptance of it.

>I'm demonstrating that you can literally replace God with anything and the supposition still stands.
you're just changing the name, it would still have all the properties of the god of classical theism, even if you give him sparkly unicorn feathers or whatever asinine gay shit you losers try to throw into the MGB's properties.

>>507091064
Pray to the sun, at least it gives you warmth on a nice day, and puts food on your table.

Until thehen, first superhero that comes and erradicates the evils, subhumans and unfairness of life gets my prayer.

>>507091234
Entropy plays a significant role in driving the selection pressures necessary for natural selection. According to the second law of thermodynamics, systems tend to move towards a state of maximum entropy, or disorder. In biological systems, this principle can be linked to the processes of evolution and natural selection. The idea is that life forms act as energy transfer mechanisms, and beneficial mutations allow organisms to transfer more energy within their environment, thereby increasing entropy more rapidly

>>507091283
>your claim that "belief is irrelevant because it's true regardless of belief" is a category error.
It isn't
>>507091283
>even if a proposition is objectively true
Not if. It is. It's that simple. No need to result to pilpul because you've been proven wrong

>>507090940
Everything remains to be seen at the end of our lifetimes, one thing that is promised is death.. that is nothing non of us can escape.. what comes after is a question that has been asked since the birth of man.. it's not for us neither to convert, most Christians find Christ themselves through adversity, shame or other forms of sin when those people find out that theres a better way and they don't have to act and behave according to their sins.. no one can be forcefully converted, then they wouldn't have Christ in their hearts.. which is why i don't believe in the thesis that our ancestors got forcefully subjugated and converted as it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did, our ancestors saw the values of Christianity and abode by it.. which brings me back to the time we're in now, most people today reside in sin and enjoy it, as can be said for even me.. no one is flawless except the one that died on the cross for us so that we could have salvation and no fear of death. Remember sometimes people put their own spin on Christianity just look at the amounts of cults that are inspired by Christianity but end up corrupted and vile in the end.

>>507090155
Satan controls this realm to a point. He hates us so much we cant even fathom it.
God is love, we dont understand the realms we cant see, you will when you die. Pick the right team, team Christ, team pain but still keep going and help your people. Team awesome. Fuck rich pedo elites

>>507090265
You mean athiest ones. Religion was the first thing they attacked in all societies they destroy

>>507091283
>>I'm demonstrating that you can literally replace God with anything and the supposition still stands.
>you're just changing the name, it would still have all the properties of the god of classical theism, even if you give him sparkly unicorn feathers or whatever asinine gay shit you losers try to throw into the MGB's properties
And is still as valid as your supposition

Take the L kid

>>507091311
>Would...would you pray to me, senpai?

>>507091009
No, Denmark is ruled by theThe Evangelical-Lutheran Church.. use to Catholic.

>>507091410
Lol get chatgpt to spit out wrong shit. Anyone can do that. Do you think people can't see chatgpt responses? Lol

This place is over and gone. It's sad. Oh it's a namefag let me go ahead and delete his existence.

>>507091084
Go read up on what happend to the people that saw God in the bible.. wasn't pretty.

>>507091234
Yeah it does, from a scientific standpoint at least. Without entropy life would not need to continually exchange materials with its surroundings in order to thrive, and as such would have none of the pressures required to induce evolution in the first place. Heck it’s hard to even imagine what a universe without entropy would look like, much less life itself. I gave a much better explanation as to how exactly life is entropic in the response below if this is confusing:
>>507088910

>>507091270
Because people are denying Christ and openly sinning, sin has become the religion for alot of people.. which is why the world is heading to shit.

>>507091516
>can't explain what's wrong about it
Have a nice day :^)

>>507091421
A religion that supposes punishment is a thought virus. Your ancestors "believed" Christianity because of inertia and fear of hell. In reality they were subjugated by a memetic thought virus.

>>507091479
an anime gurl on 4chinz?
LMFAO!

>>507091424
>Satan controls this realm to a point. He hates us so much we cant even fathom it.
Satan is a literal escape goat for Christians to avoid responsibility and to have an excuse to judge others.
I am not atheist, but those Abrahamic dogmas are just ridiculous.

1-If Satan was once an angel, he would know, better than any mortal that going against the Omni god would be useless, like fighting the wind.
Therefore, if he went and tried to fight god, he is retarded and should not be feared.

2-If he exists, then your god allows a maniac to destroy his own creation just because it's "a way of testing humans". He's god, why test us if he already knows the outcome of everything.

Your religion needs work, intellectual work. Read Spinoza or Voltaire instead of your "burble".

>>507089616
lol....

So we supposedly have a metaphysical "free will", separate from the physical, biological reality of our brains

Do AI models have "free will" too? Since we cant actually how they behave, isnt that the same "free will" that humans?

How about animals and other living beings, do they also have "free will"?

>>507091466
And the first religions they attacked were native European religions. They couldn't beat Rome on the battlefield, so they settled for conquering them spiritually.

>>507091652
So you don't think a rapist or a murderer should be punished.. do you have thinks to hide? Only criminals fear judgement and punishment.

>>507091591
As I just stated the world isn't heading to shit retard. Human lives are more or less infinitely better than they used to be across the globe. Poverty, war, violence etc are at all time lows open your fucking eyes retard.

The eras defined by Christianity are the most violent!!! This isn't in fucking question even

>>507091734
>So you don't think a rapist or a murderer should be punished
What a weird strawman

>>507083616 (OP)
Do you have any idea what you are taking about? Like genuinely anything? Because you seem clueless. A basic google search would explain how the existence of life is consistent with the second law of thermodynamics. Hint: Biological life is an open system, the entropy only has to go up for the isolated system. (The universe). One may even think in terms of Gibbs' Free energy

>>507091780
This
Based as fuck.

>>507091734
What does punishment do? Go ahead and answer that since you want to twist words. See if you can just write them logically at a basic level

What is the point of punishment? What does it do?

>>507091714
Jesus Christ must be powerful if he managed to forcefully convert the vikings and every other religion in the west. Says alot about the power we're dealing with here for "a jew that died on a stick". If Jesus Christ managed to convert your viking warrior ancestors.. what makes you think that you have a chance?

>>507091591
>which is why the world is heading to shit.
World was, is and always will be shit. Aint nothing some sacrificed carpentor on a stick has anything to do with. That's its fundamentals. For it to not be shit, it must be remade from it's foundations.

>>507090314
somee made up axioms i assume?
Sure, by that same token i can derive the Spaghetti monster from some axioms i kjust invented

Anyhow, my point was that those axiosm themsleves ARE a product of your sensory perception, They are created by your brain which is developed by sensory perception

A human who has never had any sensory perception will actually have no capability for thinking about anything.
That's been thoroughly established

>>507091891
Today Jesus Christ shows his power by converting virtually infinite numbers of Africans but virtually no white people

I'm sure we can't explain this. Mysterious ways

>>507083616 (OP)
If god was real id dethrone him

>>507091873
It deters sin, and gives the righteous good people the knowledge that the transgressions of those criminals, heretics and sinners who did whatever sin will be punished for it. That doesn't sound bad in my ear.. but it might sound but to people who have things to hide in the dark.

>>507091981
That's totally false.

>>507091891
Jesus is mythological, he didn't do anything. The Roman Empire was dying and they thought forcing a slave religion on its subjects would stop the collapse. It snowballed from there. Rome was only 10% Christian when it was made the state religion and all others were outlawed.

>>507083616 (OP)
There’s no reason for anything to exist or happen. And this carries all the way to the highest level of god or equivalent driving force, they have no reason to exist either.
This leads me to believe the default state is existence rather than non existence

>>507091974
Doesn't change that fact that Christianity and Christ have been the dominating factor in the west and across the world for 2000 years. Just stating the facts here.

>>507091891
lol Jesus converted no one, Paul invented Christianity and the Norwegian converted after the king was bribed by the Holy Roman Empire to do so, at which point he forced the religion through his countru

>>507091410
>it is
this is a belief.
when you say "it is objectively true" you're performing a belief.
the act of asserting a truth claim is doxastic, you're holding it to be true.
if belief were truly irrelevant you wouldn't (and couldn't) SAY it's true. you'd sit in silence, like a rock, indifferent to truth, but you're not, you're believing it.
accusing me of pilpul (sophistry) is just an ad hom to avoid engaging the argument. the JTB model isn't word games, it's the foundational epistemology since plato.
dismissing it because you dislike the conclusion is a classic example of you nu-atheists anti-intellectualism, the sort of thing that made your heros steven pinker and richard dawkins leave the FFRF out of embarrassment.

if truth were so independent of belief that belief is irrelevant then you couldn't know anything, because knowledge requires assent (belief.)
under your silly view, a calculator would KNOW math better than you since it processes truth without belief, but calculators don't KNOW, they compute. you KNOW because you believe.
again, you're confusing truth's ontology (which is mind-independent) with knowledge's structure (which requires belief)
rejecting this isn't simplicity, it's confusion.

>>507091981
Think of a human who lived all his life in a sensory deprivation tank

That human would be functionally completely retarded, < 50 IQ; and would be capable of forming any rational thoughts or coming up with any axioms whatsoever

Every human thought comes from our biological brain which is developed, 'trained' by sensory perception

>>507092037
Wait so why not just deter sin directly? Why not make an active Jesus exist in the world why would you use a roundabout way that ends with infinite punishment for finite acts? What is the point of infinitely punishing something that is a lesser crippled being you made that way on purpose? Why is hell not stopping bad things from happening or people from being bad at all?.
You have to realize eventually that you believe what you believe because you were raised to believe it and because it scares people into believing it. When you question it intelligently like I have just done, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It sounds like childish and undeveloped thought from people who didn't have running water.

The ultimate deterrent doesn't even deter people? Does your God have autism?

>>507092090
>Jesus is mythological, he didn't do anything.
You could say the same for zeus, odin, thor or any other "deity" out there.. so whats your point?.. the fact remains that Christianity is the leading and most dominant religion and has been for 2000 years.. since the Lord's crucifixion by the hands of his own people carried out by pontius pilate on behalf of the blood thristy kikes. Wonder if they think back and regret the crucifixion.

>>507091421
> no one can be forcefully converted, then they wouldn't have Christ in their hearts..

This is true, but religious groups don’t necessarily need to convince the people they have dominion over to believe, so long as they provide economic/social incentives for believing and the religion in name doesn’t ask for anything too morally outrageous.


Imagine you’re a pheasant farmer in the 5th century for instance, who’s land has just been conquered by a Christian kingdom which looks favorably upon Christians, and is more likely to put them in positions of trust or power. You may not have any strong religious beliefs one way or another, but if following Christianity is going to bring you and your children prosperity there’s little reason not to. You may not genuinely believe in Christianity yourself but you want the best for your children so you raise them by Christian doctrine, encouraging them to believe and never giving them reason not to. Those children will grow up to be good Christians who believe what they’ve been taught by default and will continue to pass down their religion for many generations after, regardless of whether or not they were indoctrinated by a genuine believer.

This also ignores the fact that people aren’t perfectly logical beings. Many people will look towards all kinds of implausible explanations on how they can lengthen their life when desperate, and in the event they can’t (as all people will die eventually), achieve peace in the afterlife. Christianity provides the perfect instruction manual for those of us who are willing to do things which might otherwise be illogical for a chance at eternal peace, no matter how slim so long as you make yourself genuinely believe.

>>507092101
Yeah well, it was in a different time a different place, and just like everything in life, nothing stays the same, everything morohs and changes, even ideologies and ideas.

>>507092256
Christianity does not have as many followers as Islam or Hinduism little bro lmao

Take away black Africans and Christianity will be sliding into nothingneds very soon

Life can't be based on fear, it has to be based on doing good for the value of good. Christianity is a perversion of Buddhism

>>507092142
>Jesus converted no one, Paul invented Christianity
It's called Christianity and not Paulism bub. You should be smart enough to get the difference.
>at which point he forced the religion through his country
Why didn't folks fight back or dismiss Christianity later on?

>>507083616 (OP)
Life is a very odd sort of crystal.

>>507092256
>so whats your point?
That was my point, retard. You gave credit to a character from a story and not people like Constantine and Theodosius.

>>507092232
Then they get punished for it in hell, just like you get punished in prison if you fuck up in this life. If that isn't a deterence for you, then perhaps you should look inwards and fix some things in and around your life.

>>507092368

>>507088513
faith in god correlates with significantly higher birthrates, birth being the only vehicle for gene passage. this is the only "useful" task in evolution and the only "truth" which exists in a materialist worldview.

your own belief system crushes your entire conscious life into irrelevance, merely a mirage which masks and facilitates animalistic mechanisms. therefore, whichever belief systems encourage these mechanisms are more rational in your own logical framework than the ones you espouse.

>>507092378
stop smoking it

>>507083616 (OP)
The short answer is, and you're not gonna like this, is that life exists because your consciousness does not exist in any reality where it doesn't.
It's simple, it's stupid, but it's the truth.
But this honestly isn't much of an atheist response and delves more into panthiesm in a way

>>507091701
I’m not religious, so no idea, really. It doesn’t make sense, but it’s self-evidently true that we have choice in what we do and don’t do, so we really don’t have any choice but to believe in our own free will, ironically.

I mean technically you can’t be sure that anyone but you yourself has free will, but other people act and are so similar to us that we can only really assume they have the same free will as most of us. I extend that same logic down to most animals as they definitely seem capable of and feeling and acting in the same way as we are, even if to a lesser extent. I draw the line at plants and fungi though, they’re stupid.

AI is a whole other can of worms… I definitely don’t think ai models as they exist now are conscious or have free will but idk if they could develop one. The real scary thing is we have no reason to believe they *can’t* develop free will but god I hope they don’t.

>>507092436
You have a childish philosophical perspective and have done zero thinking. A person scared by hell is mentally eternally trapped as a child. I need no fear of this nature to be good and do good acts willingly. Why do you? You are some teenage kid and you go around telling people to look inward, you have never given a single though to this stuff, it's just blind belief and it's why all intelligent people move away from it to obviously truer doctrines.

You have never willingly sacrificed anything to help anyone. You cannot tell me the story of doing so. This is the same with all people like you. You don't believe in Christianity and you haven't read the Bible. You don't pray or make alms. You use hell as a tool to scare people because you suffer from low socioeconomic status and that is what your parents, the only people you have really been around, always did to you.

It's sad. You are being distracted from the true path. I have little hope for people like you, little hellfire demons. Little holders, keepers, displayers and wielders of hell.

If you're white and smart enough to understand my post it will have impact on your life. If not. Well God bless you

>>507083616 (OP)
>Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil.
>They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?
>Sister Miriam Godwinson, "But for the Grace of God"
Christcucks can't explain neither

>>507092263
>but religious groups don’t necessarily need to convince the people they have dominion over to believe, so long as they provide economic/social incentives for believing and the religion in name doesn’t ask for anything too morally outrageous.
Doesn't change the morales and ethics of people, only a pure heart that has come to Christ could do that.. people would still continue in their own ways.. you can't fake being a Christian.. you can try, but a real Christian would call you out quicker than Indian child birth. Sorry for not giving a lengthier answer i'm just getting tired of typing.

>>507092615
That's a shandao Buddhist response based on Mahayana. Leaning heavily into zen and Huayan

>>507092378
Stalker
You you've made it to the wish granter!!!

>>507092340
But Christianity somehow managed to stay the same.. why is that?

>>507092794
>you can't fake being a Christian.

LOL. This guy is actually stuck on "we don't sin"

Under 18

https://youtu.be/V18sX7aqHKc

>>507085727
>God makes people
>consciousness
>???
>Prophets

>>507087870
>Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean it's true.
Same to every atheist with their beliefs

>>507092831
No it hasn't , fool, it's been constantly evolving, reforming, balkanizing. It's not the same religion it started off as.

>>507092704
>You have a childish philosophical perspective and have done zero thinking. A person scared by hell is mentally eternally trapped as a child.
No one is scared of hell if they haven't done anything wrong. Stop with this fallacy that every Christian fears hell, we are promised heaven and salvation through Christ.. not hell and brimstone, that is reserved for the worst of the worst.
>You have never willingly sacrificed anything to help anyone.
What would i need to sacrifice again, i'm not jewish.. i don't do sacrifice.
>It's sad. You are being distracted from the true path
What is the true path, enlighten me.
>If you're white and smart enough to understand my post it will have impact on your life. If not. Well God bless you
I'll take my chances with Christ and Christianity thank you, i'm not worried in the slightest. God be with aswell.
>You don't believe in Christianity and you haven't read the Bible. You don't pray or make alms.
Nice assumptions, but they're all wrong.

>>507092746
all scientific investigation will inevitably reach an asymptote of comprehension to the human mind. there will never be a total answer which can be comprehended, religious or not. if we were capable of understanding these things we would cease to be human which we are unable to do, this is why religion will persist indefinitely.

religion explores the edge, acknowledges it is infinite, and then develops heuristics for behaviour within the human limit. this is more rational than expecting there is a final answer to the meaning of reality.

>>507092794
> Doesn't change the morales and ethics of people, only a pure heart that has come to Christ could do that.

That’s a belief moreso rooted in Christianity than any religion specifically, but fair enough. You can definitely pretend to be Christian if you want and convince plenty of people who aren’t observant or don’t have reason to doubt you, but acting can only go so far and any omniscient god would be able to see right through you ofc. That’s just my perspective on Christianity, dw about message length or anything.

>>507092905
Where is the correlation?.. i never stated that Christians don't sin.. its sin that brought us to Jesus Christ in the first place.

>>507093147
>You can definitely pretend to be Christian
You can also pretend to be a man while you're not.. doesn't mean people will fall for it. Staying ignorant about it doesn't change the fact that it's a man and not a woman.

>>507093147
>That’s just my perspective on Christianity
Nothing wrong with your view on Christianity, it's good to dabble in these thoughts and scriptures i do believe it leads us closer to the Lord and understanding of his words.

Life exists because your dad decided to fuck your mom. I know you've been told that the storch brought you but it's in the same ballpark as santa doesn't exist.

>>507083616 (OP)
Why would atheists need to explain why life exists?

>>507090456
Defending christianity does not mean being religious

I'm pro christian too, but have never had any metaphysical belief in my life and never will

All superstition is just that, supersition, it's make believe tales to help common people deal with the hardness of their lives

>>507093423
> You can also pretend to be a man while you're not.. doesn't mean people will fall for it

…Not sure how transgender rights tie into this, but I think you’re massively underestimating how easy it is to dress up as and make yourself look like a man/woman, especially when you receive gender-affirming care from a young age, even ignoring whether or not it’s “morally correct” or whatever.

Anyways this convo seems to be getting kinda sidetracked so I think I’ll take my leave for now, though it was a pretty pleasant conversation otherwise imo.

>>507093745
It was more a perspective view.. that you can't fool others or yourself. Men know how to be males, and wouldn't know a thing about being woman and the different aspects of life that goes into it and the other way around. You can fool people sometimes, but you can't fool all people all the time.

>>507093745
Take it easy brother, be blessed.

>>507093735
>but have never had any metaphysical belief in my life and never will

I used to be that way to, until I've experienced sleep paralysis, there is something beyond this dimension. And I won't say life is definately "the end". I'm not convinced.

>>507093570
atheists under atheism wouldn't need to do anything, since ultimately nothing matters as they believe existence came into being without intention or purpose.
the thirst for meaning beyond our biological imperatives is universal to the human experience though.

>>507093735
Christianity and Christian Dogma doesn't always go hand in hand, we are told to follow Jesus Christ, have faith and live according to his good words. You can do that just by having a bible.. not everyone has access to a church or a congregation, doesn't mean you can't believe.

>>507091009
>Aren’t countries like Denmark and Norway highly atheist?
Denmark is highly atheist.

>and they’re fully controlled by jews?
Denmark’s few jews were sailed to Sweden in 1943, and our politicians, parliament and government solely consist of Muslims and ethnic Danes (plus 2 Greenlanders and 2 Faroe Islanders).

>>507092090
That 350 person genetic bottleneck occurred in Scythia, ca. 1300AD, under Christian domination.

>>507092625
"Free will" is a mere illusion

You have "free will" in the sense that your biological brain compells and "decidies" to do things, which then it rationalizes (i.e. invents justifictions for doing those actions)

There's nothing metaphysical about the actions of humans, animals, AIs, or any other living being or physicaol entity

Consciousness is far more more interesting, 'amazing', than free will, but again, it's just the result of physical processes.

Electric signals, synapses, physical biological support for 'memories', which then allows for learning, trained response to stimuli etc

Nowadays there's even some biological brain "organoids", grown in a lab, that can and are used as actual programmable computers. Google 'brain orgnaoids'

There's absolutely not even a shred of a proof of any extra-physical 'soul'

>>507092919
>Same to every atheist with their beliefs
Which “beliefs” do “every” atheist have?

>>507084049
>If there's a god then god can't create the universe because the universe created God.
The universe is just part of God in the same way your atoms are a part of you. People take books like the Bible far too literally, it's just a sometimes clumsy attempt to understand the meaning of existence.
The human body is analogous to the universe in that it is an enormously complex organism filled with different elements that interact with one another to house the human soul which powers the whole via the brain.
The universe encapsulates everything in existence and sometimes it creates tiny organic simulacra in its own image.
If the universe were dead there would be no life, so because there is life, then life must be part of the fundamental nature of the universe.

>>507093973

I have experienced sleep paralysis. or at least i guess that's what it was
it's not so strange, and again, it's a physical phenomenom like everything else

>>507085696
>I think it's reasonable to consider the possibility that a bunch of chemicals and processes converted to create organic matter.
KEK

Life don't exist. All we see and touch is made by star's corpse.

"What would I sacrifice" says the "Christian" lecturing everyone lol

/Thread

Atheists expect you to believe that you were born into a world which functions almost exactly like a machine but conveniently unlike any machine ever conceived of has no creator and was born of complete randomness lol

>>507095418
Not believing in Christianity isn't atheism

Christianity belief system is less plausible than fairy tales and it's a ripped off version of Buddhist thought that traveled through Pakistan to begin with

>>507094921
Since the existence of a Creator or Primordial Emanator is not a 100% certainty for all people, one could argue that not believing in a "god" or "gods" is a form of belief.

For example, saying "I believe god doesn't exist" is a correct form of expressing one's lack of belief, and yet it is a belief all together.
The same way the religious mind can't prove god beyond it's own belief, so to the atheist mind cannot prove the belief that god is not real.

When it comes to such topic, a topic which cannot be proven false or real, any opinion is a belief.

Though, I am sure that when it comes to the infantile notion of a Biblical god, YWHW or even Allah, we all know such being is not real. Its a mere shadow of the One.

In my opinion, and I do believe in a "god", the closest thing we have to such an entity is the God of Hermes Trismegistus, mentioned in the Corpus Hermeticum.

https://youtu.be/8ksNOQ8Jsks

>>507095496
Oh shit I think anon is on to something
Abraham + Sarah
Brahma + Saraswati

>>507083616 (OP)
>(not) entropically ideal
exactly.

>>507083616 (OP)
Dawkins came out as "culturally Christian". He accepts Christ as lord and savior.

>>507083616 (OP)
>why life exists?

>>507094920
it's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be.
the libet style experiments that are often cited to disprove free will are controversial and don't account for the brain's complex decision making processes over tim.e
free will and determinism aren't mutually exclusive. even if decisions arise from physical processes, "free will" can still meaningfully describe the ability to act according to one's desires and reasoning.
why does the feeling of making choices even exist if it's purely illusory? if consciousness has no causal role (epiphenomenalism), why would evolution produce such a vivid sense of agency?

even if we map all the neural correlates of consciousness, we still haven't explained why or how subjective experience (qualia) arises from matter. physicalism hasn't solved this.
if consciousness is purely physical, how do meaningless atoms arranging themselves create meaning, self-awareness, or the color "blue?" emergent properties might imply something beyond mere physics.
some philosophers like galen strawson argue that if consciousness exists, it must be fundamental to reality rather than a late byproduct of evolution.

physicalists can't explain consciousness, so dismissing non-physical explanations (like the soul or something else) outright is dogmatic.
things like >>507093973 and NDEs aren't conclusive, but challenge pure materialism and suggest phenomena beyond current physical explanations.
things like descartes' cogito implies the mind's existence isn't reducible to mere matter, dualism has problems but they're not trivially dismissible.

as far as your ai/brain organoid comparison goes, a computer can simulate weather without being wet. why assume simulating a mind creates consciousness?
brain organoids lack the full complexity of human brains (non-embodied, no sensory imput) their programmability doesn't prove consciousness is computational.

>>507095496
Indeed.
There is a possibility a man called Yeshua ben Yoseph existed. Yet, most of his life in the canonical gospels has been edited to fit the allegories of the sun deities.
The fact he has twelve disciples is not just connected with the tribes of Israel, it is also connected to the twelve astrological signs that circle the Sun, the Sun being Jesus Christ.
Buddhism and it's predecessor, Hinduism, did not create this system of allegories, they drank from something even more ancient.
But still, yes, Jesus was an allegory to the internal Sun, the divine spark within mankind.

Personal opinion here, but I think what remains of the historical Jesus can be found in the Nag Hammadi library. The groups we now call Gnostic were less superstitious than the proto-orthodox. For example they rejected the virginal birth.

Through and through, a great post, anon.

>>507091700
Ok satan

>>507092371
>Why didn't folks fight back
They did but the king has an army and the people don’t that’s kind of part of the definition
>or dismiss Christianity later on?
They literally did lol, Norway has always been nonbelievers and when the church stopped killing non Christians they quickly became openely majority atheist

As long as the state’s cops killed people for it everyone pretended to be Christian, as soon as they stopped people stopped pretending

>>507095652
Very astute piece of knowledge there glad to see some learned people

>>507095496
You left out Zalmoxis

>>507092378
>wear hazmat suit
>no gloves though
What’s the point

>>507095502
Lack of belief in god(s):
LACK = ABSENCE = any thought about god(s) is NON-EXISTENT.

>>507096050
Watch out, or I might possess you and force you to watch yaoi porn.

>>507084049
"God" and the universe are one and the same, it's a singular existence and all you can do is try to direct the waves of energy

>>507096216
>any thought about god(s) is NON-EXISTENT.
And yet here we are, atheists discussing the beliefs against the beliefs of religious people. There is a thought about god, even if it is about his or her, or their existence.
There is a belief in a non existence versus a belief in existence.

The english dictionary tells us the following:
believe
/bJˈliːv/
verb
gerund or present participle: believing
1.
accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.
"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"
2.
hold (something) as an opinion; think.
"I believe we've already met"

>>507096106
You give the king way too much credit.. a king is nothing without his people. So somehow the king managed to dictate and terrorize everyone into compliance or they actually went along with it willing, because if they didn't they would've continued in their pagan ways regardless. I feel like they saw the good messages of Christ and a better way to live through his words. There has been rebellion over less i believe the italians had a fued about a ladder at some point in history.

>>507096293
That nose though.. just like his "chosen people".

>>507096106
>>507096607
It was not a ladder, it was a bucket. War of the Bucket

>>507096662
>just like his "chosen people".
That's another point against the Biblical god.
An all powerful entity that created the world cannot choose one people over the other, because that proves he has necessities.
When a human chooses, for example, an apple over a pear, that means his life experiences, the apple's flavour, and his preferences, guided him to make a choice.
Now, if god chose the Israelites (a bad choice btw), that means god is chained to his life experiences and preferences.
Preferences are connected to necessities as well.
Therefore the god of the Bible cannot be all powerful, because he is a victim of a concept he created, necessity.
We could also argue that a being who chooses a group over the other, cannot truly be just and impartial.

https://youtu.be/Ly2x_XUw4qU

>>507085303
>rocks cant exist because thats too hard therefore a 80 foot tall jewish old guy in robes with wizard powers exists because just does ok

>>507096958
God chose everyone and actually cursed the kikes according to the bible. Look up 'Blood Curse'. Jesus Christ created a new covenant in which everyone who resided in the Lord would have no fear of death and salvation at the end.

>>507083616 (OP) Atheists can't reason. No point in asking them this question.

>>507085638
>It all just randomly happened one day
Atheists really need something better explanation for life. Otherwise the concept of a prime mover (nothing would stay nothing, therefore something else had to create something from nothing) debunks atheism imo.

>>507084049
God is a transcendent being that exists outside of the universe and precedent the laws of logic and causality.

>>507083616 (OP)
Because it does, otherwise it wouldn't ask the question.
Basically you've inverted the proposition by forgetting life needs to exist before the question can be asked.

No life no question.

A lot of things in this world are like that, no meaningful anseer to the question "Why?" unless it's a human construct that pretends to have an answer, god's the best known one.

>>507085592
>assuming laws of causality in an uncaused universe
>assuming laws of consistency in an unguided nonteleological universe
>assuming self and consciousness in a materialist universe

lmao. It's truly baffling how retarded the atheist worldview, when you actually learn philosophy.

>>507085696
>it's very reasonable
No. It's the exact opposite of reasonable. It defies and contradicts all of our understanding of organic chemistry.

>>507092228
>this is a belief
Which is irrelevant

It doesn't matter how big your make your replies either

>>507097162
It took a billion years for life to appear. That's a very long time, sir.

>>507096467
>There is a belief in a non existence
Which is still a lack of belief

>>507097654
>i'm not going to argue with your points but i'm still right neener neener neener
you are a child.

>>507096467
There is no thought about god or the existence or non-existence of it.

>>507097805
But a belief nonetheless.

>>507097909
Do you believe that? I believe there is.

>>507097886
>not going to argue with your points
Already have. Whether I beleive 2+2=4 is irrelevant because it's true regardless

Take the L kid

>>507084049
The cosmos itself is alive by the fundamentals laws of the creator.

Thermodynamics shapes the fabric and structure of existence. The very laws move atoms in accordance to the exchange of energy.

There is jo such thing as life and biologists are simply imagining the existence and classifications of collections of atoms that dont actually exist.

There is no such thing as a whale, dogs, cats or even people, youre just looking at atoms and to entertain the existence of such abstract concepts is the domain of schizophrenics.

If atheist play the game of pretending to be stupid to delegitimate allegorical stories, then the entire field of biology cam be erased.

Mammals dont exist, they are just atoms stop inventing things.

>>507097953
>But a belief nonetheless
Not until evidence convinces me then my lack of belief turns to belief

i'd like an 3rd party observer who is an atheist to appraise the back and forth i had with this namefag >>507097968 and tell me whether or not you think he did a good job of defending your shared worldview.

>>507098073
Lol what a clown you are

2+2=4 doesn't require belief because it's true regardless

>>507098020
Give me evidence for the existence of a mammal?

I will argue like an atheist so you can begin to see their grift.

>>507098073
Better start them off here
>>507089825
>In epistemology, the statement "2+2=4" is not typically considered a belief but rather a mathematical truth or a tautological statement within a formal system

>>507097644
Biochemistry major here and no, it does not at all contradict our entire understanding of the field. It wouldn’t make sense if it did, given that organic chemistry exists in great part to explain how living things work and can exist in an environment while the world favors entropy. I explained this in detail waaaay up on the reply tagged below, can’t believe this thread is still going lmao.
>>507088910

>>507098237
>Give me evidence for the existence of a mammal?
Why?

https://youtu.be/PDgP4hN4OA4

>>507098020
An opinion is often a belief about something subjective or debatable.
The existence of god is debatable my dude.

>Not until evidence convinces me then my lack of belief turns to belief
A religious person can say the same, sweety pooh:

>Not until evidence convinces me then my belief will not turn into lack of belief

This world is an illusion and the only form of reality lies in the eye of the beholder. For you this world is a random occurrence with no deep meaning asides from surviving (I am not saying you believe this yourself, I am giving an example).
While a religious person will believe there is someone behind it who pulls the strings and who gives meaning asides from carnal desires.

In the end, doesn't matter, really. Or maybe it does. Both are valid beliefs.

>>507090296
>>507090155
Reminder that Americans created Lyme Disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever the same way that Chinks created covid, through gain of function research and a lab leak. There's a reason why we banned that kind of research in the US shortly afterwards.

>>507097953
>Do you believe that?
I KNOW it - the subject is my brain, and I’m the only one witnessing what’s going on in there.

>>507083616 (OP)
Not an Atheist but:
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-021-21849-2

>>507098357
>The existence of god is debatable my dude
Agreed because "god" is subjective

>>507098357
>>Not until evidence convinces me then my lack of belief turns to belief
>A religious person can say the same, sweety pooh
About a different god they don't believe in?
>>507098357
>For you this world is a random occurrence with no deep meaning
Incorrect. Try less strawman next reply sweetie poo

>>507098383
>I KNOW it
Religious people say the same.
We all believe we know what is right, wrong, existing or non-existing.
It's part of human nature.
Are you 100% sure? Good, so are other people about their gods.
We're all seeking truth, and what we KNOW now may change or may not change.
Christians become atheists, and atheists become christians. Life is fluid and so is human knowledge.

>>507085232
Most Trans are Christian

>>507083616 (OP)
That has nothing to do with atheism.

Saying "Goddidit" isn't an explanation either.

>>507098073
So far no one has proven my statement wrong yet bud

>>507098516
>Incorrect. Try less strawman next reply sweetie poo
You didn't read what I said, I was giving an example, not stating your beliefs.
Read it again please:
>For you this world is a random occurrence with no deep meaning asides from surviving (I am not saying you believe this yourself, I am giving an example).

>(I am not saying you believe this yourself, I am giving an example).

Focus. If you want to debate you must focus on what your adversary is telling you, otherwise you might state things that are untrue.
Let's move on.

>>507098516
>"god" is subjective
what a retard.
you're again confusing epistemology and ontology.
people's subjective takes on an object like God has no bearing on the object's existence.

>>507083616 (OP)
100% of all universes that have ever existed have had life. Why do you act like it's so rare and needs magic man as an answer?

>>507098295
You are literally presupposing
>well life exists, so therefore it must have just naturally created itself using natural processes, because miraculous explanations are excluded.
LMAO.
You are literally just asserting your biases.

And no. Abiogenesis is a dead theory. It cannot explain the information paradox required to reach even the simplest proteins, let alone the huge amounts needed to reach self-reproduction. That doesn't even address the chemistry problems, which are so innumerable and insurmountable, that I do not believe that you are a biochemistry major, or else you would be aware of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71dqAFUb-v0&list=PLILWudw_84t2THBvJZFyuLA0qvxwrIBDr

>>507098769
>You didn't read what I said, I was giving an example, not stating your beliefs.
If that were true you wouldn't have framed it as such

At best you've contradicted yourself with the follow up
>>507098790
>what a retard
Stick to one losing arguement at a time bud
>>507098790
>people's subjective takes on an object like God has no bearing on the object's existence
Let me know when is proven objectively true and then you'll have a point

>>507098237
We can just show you different mammals retardbro unless you're solipsostic or deny all sensorial experiences, there's your proof, now can you show us El's the retarded semitic son, yhwh? Ask him why he claims the achievements of his big bro Ba'al for himself? Is he so insecure and cucked?

>>507099045
>You are literally presupposing
>You are literally just asserting your biases.
That's all they do and claim it's logic and reason

>>507099069
>when is proven
When one* is proven

>>507099045
>Unironically quoting the retard James Tour
Tour has long been discredited as a retard in system's chemistry he's mediocre at synthesis but he lies for the discover institute and has been humilliated time and time again.

>>507098763
no one's defended you either, which i take to mean they feel too embarrassed to be associated with you even if it's to shit on a Christian.
>>507099069
>Stick to one losing arguement at a time bud
you already conceded >>507097654
>Let me know when is proven objectively true and then you'll have a point
whether or not it's true is irrelevant in this immediate context you mongoloid.
we could be discussing pure fiction and you'd still be making category errors.

>>507099167
>t. retard
There's nothing that points at a retarded semitic cuck who is afraid of chariots being in charge of creation.

>>507098624
>Religious people say the same.
So religious people inform you what they think or not think of, and you don’t believe them?

>>507099270
>no one's defended you either
My argument doesn't need anyone too. You called for help because yours does and you got non

>>507099270
>you already conceded
Nope
>>507099270
>whether or not it's true is irrelevant
Not to the subjective nature. Which it will remain until proven otherwise

>>507099231
Nothing but an assertion and a complete ad hominem fallacy assertion as well. This is the best you Science worshippers can produce?
You are a devotee to your false Idol. Science cannot explain the origin of life.

DNA is digital information. There is no explanation for how sufficient DNA can be accumulated with the correct information needed to reach any self-replicating processes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c9PaZzsqEg

Atheists have never even considered how this is the ultimate proof of a Mind which has designed the universe.

>>507099045
> You are literally presupposing

I’m presupposing, but not in the matter you claim. We can both agree on the presupposition that life exists and must have come into existence after all.

From there it’s a matter of figuring out the most plausible means by which said life came into existence in the first place. There are a variety of theorized means as to how RNA could have come into existence as a result nonliving matter, but none of them are satisfactorily probable enough that we can assume it was the means that life came into existence in the first place. The theories we do have though, appear more probable and more in line with our perceivable understanding of how the universe works then the idea that some all-knowing, all-powerful sentient being composed of unknown substances/forces “willed” it into existence, for the time being anyways.

>>507099069
>If that were true you wouldn't have framed it as such
Victimize yourself as much as you please. That's what's wrong with humanity. People spend hours crying, and hiding under suffering in order to avoid reaching an uncomfortable truth, and this applies to both atheists and religious people.

Want me to say I am sorry for the fact you misinterpreted my text. Fine, Anon, I am sorry for giving an example about beliefs, and I am sorry to have stated that I didn't know what your beliefs were. Sorry for you being a fast reader and not paying attention.

Now, please, stop crying and about your beliefs like a christian and argue against what I said.

Or am I your Iron Chariot, you Jeova?

>>507099565
>Science cannot explain the origin of life.
Not yet

>>507083616 (OP)
no one knows, every theory basedence or religion is cope

>>507099700
>Victimize yourself as much as you please
I'm not. Just learning to form an argument that doesn't start out as contradiction

>>507099847
>Just learning
Learn*

>>507099850
I like his hair, looks like a gay version of Dante.

>>507099669
>the most plausible means by which said life came into existence in the first place
Yes A mind designed it. That was the Mind of God by necessity, since it predates any form of life.
Intelligent Design is proven by DNA, the signature in the cell. The minimum complexity needed to be self-replicating cannot have arisen naturally through random processes, therefore it had to be written.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c9PaZzsqEg

>>507099750
It cannot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c9PaZzsqEg

>>507099565
>Nothing but an assertion and a complete ad hominem fallacy assertion as well.
Calling a retard a retard is not an ad hominem lil bro if you explain why his perspectivr is skewed, flawed or lacking and then call him by his name, that's not ad hom. I didn't say he was wrong because he's a retard but rather he's a retard or a disingenuous fag because he has been proven wrong in his claims about system's chemistry and the synthesis of RNA and proteins.
>This is the best you Science worshippers can produce?
You are a devotee to your false Idol. Science cannot explain the origin of life.
Science worshippers? You're completely retarded, do you know how science works if a retarded semitic cuck afraid of chariots was in charge of creation scientists would already know him.
>DNA is digital information. There is no explanation for how sufficient DNA can be accumulated with the correct information needed to reach any self-replicating processes.
There is because RNA is self-replicant but you religious tards pretend an elephant has to self assemble from non-organic materials otherwise "it didn't happen" we've observed pretty much all organic compounds self assemble in a lab but you retards still pretend the cuck afraid of chariots is a better explanation.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c9PaZzsqEg [Open]
>Discovery institute
kekekekek bro you're completely brainwashed if you believe a word those dunces say
>Atheists have never even considered how this is the ultimate proof of a Mind which has designed the universe.
Because it's not a proof is a retarded mind experiment based on wishful thinking and ignorance.

>>507100021
>Yes A mind designed it.
God of the gaps. You don't know so you suppose your personal God did it
>>507100102
I don't believe you

>>507100021
If we assume the existence of an even more intelligent being which created life that just poses more questions than it answers… like what exactly that being is, and what their intentions are. We have plausible theories as to how life could have spontaneously arisen from non-living matter which raise far less questions than that answer would.

>>507100021
>muh irreducible complexity
How are you fags gonna cope when single celled organisms are observed self assembling under lab conditions?
Your faggy yhwh can't even fathom a way of beating chads in chariots but you wanna pretend he's smart enough to do genetic engineering?
kekekekek

>>507099444
>My argument doesn't need anyone too.
you didn't respond to any of my rebuttals, you just said "nuh uh that's irrelevant" without explaining why.
>Not to the subjective nature. Which it will remain until proven otherwise
so if an object in a hypothetical isn't proven to exist 100%, then it can't be an object?
let's say we're discussing a guy sitting a desk, there's a lamp on it (OR IS THERE?)
could it not be a hallucination!? how can we know for certain there is a lamp there!?
therefore, the lamp is subjective and reality doesn't exist.

do you see why you're retarded?

>>507098073
Threads almost done and no one to back you up duder...

>>507100353
>If I go full retard and assert a sollipsistic reality then my imaginary friend is as real as anything that actually exists
kek is this really the argument you wanna go with?

>>507100353
>you didn't respond to any of my rebuttals
I sure did.

Let me know when you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt your favorite flavor of god is real

>>507083616 (OP)
>Can atheists explain why life exists?

>>507100453
It's pure desperation for them lol

>>507100453
holy shit man.
you guys are failing the "if you didn't have breakfast this morning, how would you feel" test.

>>507100361
These tards unironically link retard tour and discovery institute videos IMO they're marketing shills trying to drive up the channel's views lol nobody can be this retarded.

>>507100532
No retard, we're literally showing why your argument is a reduction to absurdity and why that's a bad argument.

>>507100532
Not really, it's just you not having an actual argument so you winder off to irrelevant subjects to desperately make a point, kek

>>507085177
I don't care about things that can or can't be proven deductively. I just simply do not believe.

Can you comprehend that? That somebody is so indifferent that it means nothing to them whether a god is real or not? I think about proving god to be true or false in the same way I think about why trees grow better in some areas than others. It doesn't matter. I have better things to do.

>>507100353
>you just said "nuh uh that's irrelevant" without explaining why.
This is also a lie as I did explain why
>>507097968
>Whether I beleive 2+2=4 is irrelevant because it's true regardless

>>507100644
reductio ad absurdum arguments aren't fallacious, they're good tools.
i'm glad you agree what he was saying is absurd though.
he was the one whose view slips into solipsism, i was demonstrating why his understanding of objects and subjects, and ontology and epistemology are wrong.

>>507100970
>i'm glad you agree what he was saying is absurd though
Now he openly resorts to lying. Kek

>>507100121
>he's a retard or a disingenuous fag because he has been proven wrong in his claims about system's chemistry and the synthesis of RNA and proteins.
Again. You are just asserting this. Not proving it. And even if its true that Tour has been rebutted in some respect it doesn't rebut any of the chemistry problems laid out with abiogenesis which you haven't even started addressing.
>There is because RNA is self-replicant
LMAO. Go ahead and create some abiogenic RNA, you fucking retard. RNA is also WAY WAY WAY more sufficiently complex than can possibly be reached through random natural processes. Even simple proteins are too complex to be arrived at by random ordering of their component amino acids.

It's called the combinatorial problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c9PaZzsqEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW6egHV6jAw

>we've observed pretty much all organic compounds self assemble in a lab but you retards still pretend the cuck afraid of chariots is a better explanation.
Lmao. No. We haven't You are completely deluded. You worship science and are repeating the propaganda missals sent out by the ministerium of science.

If you went to Mars as the first explorer and found an internal combustion or a copy of the Illiad sitting fully assembled on the surface, would you assume that either of those things arose by themselves naturally, or would you assume that a mind created them and put them there.

Now realize that the minimum complexity for the simplest imaginable self-reproducing organism is orders of magnitude more complicated than a book or an engine.

>>507100503
>American-Israeli author of Azerbaijani origin

>>507101065
the mexican intellectual pointed out that my argument was a reduction to absurdity, but didn't say i was strawmanning you, therefore, the mexican intellectual was saying your view is absurd.
where is the lie?

>>507101207
>the mexican intellectual pointed out that my argument was a reduction to absurdity
Let's see what e said
>>507100644
>your argument is a reduction to absurdity
>>507101207
>therefore, the mexican intellectual was saying your view is absurd.
That's your supposition. Just like you do with God. Kek

Concession fully accepted