>Followed Roman religion 99% of its existance
>Rome becomes officially christian ~150 years before its fall

What mean?

>>507104547 (OP)
attila the hun that was king arthur he stole the Holy Grail he used rock golems to make stonehenge but GOD caused an earthquake and destroyed it because of that Rome fell

>>507104547 (OP)
Christianity was a big part of it but Rome also underwent demographic replacement as well. Rome in its prime was undoubtedly pagan but it deserved to fall by the end, barbarians did the needful

>>507104547 (OP)
The longest lasting Empire in human history is the Greek Christian ERE, did they not teach you that in your school Muhammad?

>>507104547 (OP)
>150 years is 1% of Rome’s existence

>>507104547 (OP)

They allowed Christianity out of desperation. It was already over and that was a hail marry.

>>507105628
>They allowed Christianity out of desperation. It was already over and that was a hail marry.

The Roman Empire returned to it's rightful birthplace of Greece.

You retards>>507105628
>>507105360
>>507105124
>>507104547 (OP)
have no concept of Rome. Rome was created by King Philip, Western civilization as a whole was created by this man and his son Alexander spread it. Italian peninsula barbarians fought the noble Greeks for 150 years and finally merged after the Fourth Makedon-Rome Wars. When Rome, the city fell, the empire moved to it's rightful place in Greece where it lasted another 1,000 years.

The Italian expansions into Germanic and Anglo lands were Roman Emperors desire to be like Alexander, which they accomplished, everything started with Philip though.

This is a common misconception. It followed the Roman religion in way not that dissimilar from how we follow the Christian religion. It became highly atheistic and lazy over time, reaching its zenith of atheism in the Republican era right before Augustus did something you were not supposed to do in the Roman religion, insist on a singular cult for everyone. Roman had gone through multiple religious transformations way before it became Christian.

>>507105360
yeah non-whites love christianity, i think that's part of the point there, dingus

pure white people are never christian, it's totally illogical

>>507105484
LMAO kys faggot you're talking about the cucked city states that became a vassal of the Ottomans before surrendering completely
you need stfu next time you're in a Rome thread stupid bitch ass nigger

>>507106566
They love it because the powerful white man brought it there and made the internal clergy powerful you dumbass. They’re aping Europeans.

>>507105484
VGH, spending thousands of years losing everything is GLVRIVUS, TRVLY in the spirit of ROMA, VGH

by the jews own logic, the holocaust didn't happen

some palestinians still alive:jews not genociding them::some jews still alive:hitler didn't genocide them

it's basic fucking logic

>>507107055
Mussolini tried to create a new Roman Empire without Greeks, and Greeks responded by creating mountains out of dead Italian bodies in the Epirus mountains. You Italian niggers better understand there is no Rome without Greece, your city was a gift by Greeks as well as your civilization. Learn your place at the side of Greeks and Rome can be re-built, even better than before

>>507104547 (OP)
listen to this, you will convert too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt4rWLVAW5g

>>507107369
the Greeks didn't worship lowly jewish rabble, sorry Zambo, I'm the biggest Hellaboo on /pol/ and that's precisely what makes me rabidly antichristanzee

>>507107781
Greeks have fought in 5 major Wars over the last 2 centuries and won them all, Christian heritage strengthens the ties of the soldiers and communities.

>>507104547 (OP)
150 years is fucking long tho
> ITS CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!
> I don't want to know about the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, and later the Huns that invaded Roman territory!!!
> I don't want to know about frequent changes of emperors, many of whom were assassinated or overthrown!!!
> I don't want to know about civil wars!!!
> I don't want to know about corruption!!!
> I don't want to know about high taxation, overreliance on slve labor, decline of trade and inflation + devaluation of their currency!!!!
> i dont want to know about their drop of agricultural productivity!!!!!
> I JUST WANT IT TO BE CHRISTIANITY!!! IT LIVES FREE IN MY HEAD!!!
tell us when you knew you were an homosexual?

>>507104547 (OP)
The republic degenerated into an empire long before Christianity was even a thing. Sulla, Caesar and all the imperial troubles were symptoms of inner rot.

>>507104547 (OP)
>implying correlation = causation
>implying Rome fell because of Christianity
Let’s clear this up. Rome didn’t collapse because it embraced Christ. It was already hollowed out: decay in leadership, economic breakdown, and barbarian pressure were well underway before Constantine ever saw a cross in the sky. Christianity didn’t kill Rome. If anything, it gave the dying empire a soul worth saving.

>99% pagan
Cute number, but paganism didn’t give Rome a unified worldview. You had state rituals, yes, but also a chaotic mess of cults, imported deities, emperor worship, and eventually outright nihilism. The Sibylline Books weren’t saving anybody from plague or invasion. Religion was transactional and falling apart, just like the Empire. Christianity, by contrast, offered moral clarity, metaphysical grounding, and a community that crossed ethnic and class lines. That’s why it spread, not because of "weakness," but because people were starved for truth and stability.

Don’t mistake aesthetic nostalgia for spiritual substance. Lighting a fire to Jupiter didn’t exactly stop the Visigoths. I'm open to hearing counterpoints, but let’s get beyond surface-level history memes, ffs.

>>507104547 (OP)
You have got it the wrong way around. Rome was already well into its decline by then, adopting Christianity was like Rome injecting adrenaline into their dying heart.

>>507108735
Christianity was a symptom and cause of its spiraling degradation.

>>507109006
More like injecting kike worship

>>507105484
>The longest lasting Empire in human history is the Greek Christian ERE
No it’s not. It collapsed multiple times during its supposed continuity. At best you can argue that its longest period was between 450 and the early 11th century. And there’s a very good argument that the empire saw at least a partial collapse at the end of the heraclian dynasty.
It was also a political travesty despite some cool feats. They had constant civil wars, infrastructure was constantly decaying because iconoclasts and reactionaries kept building as destroying shit for hundreds of years. By the time the seljulks came around, anatolia and greece became wastelands with less than half of the population they had 500 years prior (and arguably haven’t recovered to this day). Sciences were plentiful but often persecuted as political factions shifted, which made scholars flee to the bloody Caliphate out of all places. It’s hard to stress how much of a trainwreck the Byzantine Empire was.

>>507109232
Tidy narrative, but it doesn’t hold up under pressure.

>symptom
It's true that Christianity emerged during the Empire’s decline. But so did a lot of things: economic collapse, demographic shifts, military overstretch. If we’re calling Christianity a “symptom,” it’s only in the sense that a cure shows up when the disease is already raging. People turned to the Gospel not because things were going well, but because paganism had failed to answer the deeper crises on a moral, spiritual, and social level.

>cause
This is where the argument breaks down. Christianity taught chastity, charity, discipline, and universal dignity. These aren’t values of a collapsing civilization, but of renewal. What was degrading Rome? Institutional corruption, infighting, bread-and-circus decadence, and a reliance on mercenaries. None of those are Christian traits.

If anything, Christianity delayed the fall. Monasteries preserved learning, the Church stabilized communities, and Christian Emperors like Theodosius actually tried to reform and re-moralize Roman law. It's also worth noting that the Christian East didn’t fall in 476. Byzantium endured another thousand years. Same faith, stronger foundation. The argument doesn’t explain that away, it just tries to avoid it.

It’s convenient to blame the last honest man standing when the house collapses, but maybe ask who lit the fire before he walked in.

>>507109727
>It’s hard to stress how much of a trainwreck the Byzantine Empire was.

It had enemies on multiple fronts, Islam/Arabs in the East and South, a resurging Italy and newly created Vatican in the West and the Thracian/Slavic barbarians in the North.

>>507104547 (OP)
It means that christkikes are crypto jews.

>>507109782
You should know that christianity was imported through MENA migrants/slaves in Rome and its foothold was in urban areas of the Empire and spread like a "woke" movement of that time.

It teaches to be meek, accepting, universalist and its origin is from a foreign conquered people (Judeans). It also teaches to subvert and destroy other religions. So its a symptom of mass migration and a cause of its cultural degradation from the native Roman culture.

>>507104547 (OP)
Christianity was Rome's leftism

>>507104547 (OP)
because it's old laws were based on old philosophies. Christianity was an update, but like the Jews, they never could eliminate their pagan idols.

>>507109782
> People turned to the Gospel not because things were going well, but because paganism had failed to answer the deeper crises on a moral, spiritual, and social level.
They turned to christianity because its wishful thinking. You life is horrible and everything around you is decaying but that’s okay because you will go to heaven once you die.
Meanwhile, paganism stated that if you die as a loser, you will be a loser in afterlife and eventually come back as a loser.
Which is why people called christianity a death cult. It encouraged people to await their death (not suicide ofc) in order to escape the tribulations of daily life and avoid having to deal with the problems at hand.
>Christianity taught chastity, charity, discipline, and universal dignity
Universal dignity aside, these are all in the mos maiorum.
> What was degrading Rome? Institutional corruption, infighting, bread-and-circus decadence, and a reliance on mercenaries. None of those are Christian traits.
But they sure as hell continued to be a thing in the christian sucessor states. Particularly in the east.
> Christian Emperors like Theodosius actually tried to reform and re-moralize Roman law
The theodosian reforms were kinda shit. They were straight up inferior to the hermogenian law and quickly got overruled by the Lex Romana Visigothorum, which perfected this era of roman law. Before Alaric, which complemented the Iura and Doxa with previous writings, the theodosian codex represented a huge regression due to its exegetical nature. Theres a reason why the novellas are a relatively marginal part of the Corpus Iuris Civilis.

>>507104547 (OP)
>What mean?
It prolonged it's existence ironically, but keep using your scapegoat of Christianity to blame everything wrong with the world

>>507110064
Yeah. And that is particularly why you shouldnt break all of your expensive infrastructure and torch every village in the countryside over bullshit iconoclasm.

>>507110833
Paganism
>if you die as a loser, you will be a loser in afterlife and eventually come back as a loser.
Christianity
>if you find life miserable then embrace it as a challenge from God who provides hope in salvation

Sounds like an upgrade.

>>507111219
Which one is more realistic, though? And which one is better for civic conscience?

>>507111596
>realistic and civic conscience?
the one where do the best you can is the main message?

Mark 14:51-52
Jesus was arrested in a public park at 4am with a naked boy and then executed alongside two other lestai. He was truly following the example of Αβραμ τω περάτη, whose wife gave him a slave to use as a breeder when she was infertile. Jesus just had a thing for little boys instead of girls, the Heraclean rites. Mark 14:36 he mentions a cup and no christian will be able to tell you what that cup is without relying on metaphor and literary invention, because the boy is the cup, just like Zeus had Ganymede, Apollo Hyacinth, and Heracles Hylas.

Christians worship a drug wielding sorcerer who pimped out teenage boys, that he turned into eunuchs as he encourages in Matthew 19:12. You know they must be prepubescent because that's when it makes sense to snip snip, just like the church creating castrati for the choirs (a perversion of the original chorus of girls) and the church "fathers" chopping themselves to enter the kingdom.

>>507104547 (OP)

Eventually /pol will blaim jews on this too.

>>507108215
Yes Yahweh strengthens us all indeed

>>507112101
>Yes Yahweh strengthens us all indeed

Yahweh is a babylonian demon that Jews like to use as an insult against Christ, like a weird Jewish inside joke

>>507111219
Maybe pagan is a word made up by Christian communists. Maybe Christians who worship foreign Cananite God are pagan idk man

The Jewish Messiah overthrew Rome and established a Jewish Kingdom as predicted.

>>507112259
Halelu Yah means praise Yahweh bro, are you saying Yahweh is not Christian demiurge God

>>507112482
Plan for salvation unfolding. Stay mad, Pharisees.

>>507108735
>Christianity, by contrast, offered moral clarity
Christianity was a drug fueled sex cult known for incestuous orgies with children, cannibalistic necromancy, and encouraging brainwashed converts to become bandits. Critics like Celsus correctly labelled them as atheistic threats to society whose intentions were to overturn the civil institutions that rested on a polytheistic foundation of concepts like Justice being guaranteed by a goddess. The MO of Christian "missionaries" was to find either crowds of the easily controlled discontents or a single aristocratic family to enslave with drugs and sex in order to become a controlling mafia-like presence. Once any sort of foothold was established, schools and temples would be targeted for harassment or outright destruction, something that became law as the corrupting influence seized power wholly.

>>507104547 (OP)
Christopher Jon Bjerknes' work is worth checking out on this subject, he has a YT channel' CJB Books' going into how kikes created Christianity to derail Rome

>>507112259
Jesus says he's yahweh you retarded messianic jew

>>507105484
Est Roman empire was a joke

>>507105484
>The longest lasting Empire in human history is the Greek Christian ERE, did they not teach you that in your school
They don't teach that because its factually false, you absolute mong. Egypt and China vastly outstrip it. Byzantium was also hardly an empire. It was a rump state that spent 90% of its time losing clay. The pejorative "byzantine" exists today because of what a stagnant backwards hellhole it was, full of treacherous losers who plotted against their own people while destroying their nation from within.

Or in other words, exactly like modern christians.

>>507106048
its sad that interesting posts like this get overlooked

>>507104547 (OP)
Christianism started out as an apocalyptic cult. Apocalyptic cults flourish when a civilization is in decline. The adoption was meant to pacify the elites who were attracted to such cults

>>507104547 (OP)
Jews were butthurt over Hadrian so they created and spread the slave morality religion called christianity to destroy the roman empire and to make jews a "protected class" in the goyim lands for all forseeable future

>>507105124
Damn I want what you're on

It's very simple, Jesus came to save everybody, whoever accepts Him accepts the gift of eternal life. Whoever does not is going to hell.

>>507112381
it comes down to your philosophy, which becomes a testimony about who or what you worship. Many believed in King Arthur and his return and the search for the Holy Grail. Their faith had led them to a nothing burger.

Christianity puts faith into a living breathing creator who knows every hair on your head personally and loves you, why people find this nefarious is probably because of the many bad apples and false doctrines spread by antichristians.

>>507113256
>eternal
This word does not appear in the original Greek texts. It's Aionic life.

>>507113332
It probably has more to do with the fact it worships a jewish rabbi and created Israel.

>>507108317
huwites love to LARP as Romans but they van't cope with the cognitive dissonance of barbarian g*rms destroying and sacking Rome.

>>507105548
>being this autistic about numbers in a generalized statement that conveys a simple message

real schizo hours.
you won't survive.

>>507113689
I don't doubt it, but those people should read a bible for once. I suggest to take your soul serious, this life is short but your soul is eternal.

>>507104547 (OP)
Rome was already done. The jews had taken over with their rabble rousing, whipping up mobs to terrorize the leaders. That's clear if you read Cicero's For Flaccus, and put it into context: Cicero had just defeated a conspiracy to overthrow the republic. Then read Strabo about 50 years later saying the jews had to come dominate the entire world. The power of the jewish mob is also evident when reading the Bible:

>“Why?” Pilate demanded. “What crime has he committed?” But the MOB roared even louder, “Crucify him!” Pilate saw that he wasn’t getting anywhere and that a RIOT was developing. So he sent for a bowl of water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man’s blood. The responsibility is yours!”

You don't even need to read history. You can look at modern politics and see the jews using the mob whenever they can't blackmail or bribe the leaders. Nothing new under the sun.

>>507104547 (OP)
it means that gayrapeans cannot into logic

>>507104547 (OP)
>Followed Roman religion 99% of its existance
Not true at all
Rome fell in 193

>>507113996
People considering their souls is precisely why they're rejecting jewish-created religion.

>>507114356
> no im the real transcendentalist
were not doing transcendentalism

>>507110763
Alright, let’s break this down.

>imported through MENA migrants/slaves
Yes, Christianity began in Judea, just like Stoicism began in Cyprus, Mithraism in Persia, and Isis worship in Egypt. Rome didn’t exactly have borders on religious ideas. The Roman elite loved foreign cults when it suited their tastes. If you’re going to disqualify a religion because it wasn’t born in the Forum, then 70% of what Romans actually worshipped gets thrown out (including a lot of late paganism).

>spread like a woke movement
Flashy insult, but it ignores what early Christianity actually demanded: martyrdom, celibacy, strict moral codes, no idolatry, no emperor worship. Not exactly TikTok-tier softness. Roman pagans despised Christians because they wouldn’t burn a pinch of incense to Caesar, and many were tortured to death for it.

>meek, accepting, universalist
You're quoting Scripture without context. "Blessed are the meek" isn’t a call to be passive doormats, it’s a warning against pride, against the imperial arrogance that did help undo Rome. And yes, Christianity is universal. Truth either applies to all men or it’s not truth.

>subvert and destroy other religions
Guilty, as charged. Paganism was full of contradictions, idol worship, and blood sacrifice. Christianity came to fulfill and replace it, not coexist indefinitely. Rome tolerated everything, and as a result stood for nothing. Christianity had the clarity to say "no, this is false, this is harmful, this must go."

>>507113996
No modern christian has ever read the bible. The original texts, OT and NT, were written in Greek first. The entire notion of a Hebrew original, and Hebrew religion at all, is a falsehood invented for the express purpose of creating a shitty Hebrew translation from which to re-translate all of the texts in order to remove the references to drugs, sex, and magic. Everything "mystical" and vague in English translations descended from those shitty Hebraic frauds is a result of the loss of precise and coherent language in the original Greek. You can't read the bible until you figure out who Αβραμ τω περάτη really was.

Every English translation of the Bible you have ever seen is totally worthless

>>507114480
The churches are going to empty at an accelerating rate, and it will be a moral choice, not because of apathy. Plenty of stats to back that up, too. It's impossible to maintain the facade of this cult around a rabbi being real when its sole occupation now is to open up your borders to mass-immigration while cheerleading and sending your taxes to a race of foreign non-believing warmongers committing genocide. Especially when the sole reason for doing so is because it is popularly believed that this is the key to being beamed up to the afterlife after the world is destroyed. It appears suicidal and delusional to anyone with an IQ above 90, which is why the modern atheist isn't a fat blue-haired liberal, but an intelligent working-class normie.

>>507110833
>They turned to Christianity because its wishful thinking. Your life is horrible... but that’s okay because heaven.
You’re half right, but the key difference is this: Christianity doesn’t offer escapism, it offers meaning. The Gospel doesn’t say "ignore the world," it says bear your cross and be not afraid. Early Christians weren’t retreating into fantasy. They were being burned alive in arenas. If it were just "death cult" hopium, it wouldn’t have produced martyrs, just dropouts. Compare that to late paganism, where ritual was reduced to civic duty and metaphysics were vague at best. A pantheon of squabbling anthropomorphic gods didn’t offer much comfort when the legions failed and crops died. Christianity provided moral structure and eternal purpose.

>Paganism said die as a loser, return as a loser
If people are losing and you offer them nothing but eternal Ls, don’t be surprised when they stop showing up to your temples.

>Chastity, charity, discipline = mos maiorum
Not denying that. In fact, that’s one of Christianity’s strengths. It fulfilled Roman virtue and gave it transcendence. The mos maiorum was a noble code, but it lacked metaphysical grounding. Christianity took Roman gravitas and added logos. Why do you think the Church called its priests pontifices? Rome’s own categories were baptized, not discarded.

cont.

>>507115177
>>507109782
>Christian successor states kept corruption and decadence
Sure. Sin doesn’t vanish with baptism. But the difference is that Christian society condemned those traits instead of celebrating them. Pagan Rome had decadence as a civic art form (see: Caligula, Nero, Commodus). The Christian world had sinners, but it also had saints, reformers, monastics, and a public standard that pointed higher.

>Theodosian reforms were inferior
Fair critique. But your point proves Christian Rome was still trying. It didn’t stop building. It didn’t retreat into mysticism. It tried to preserve law, order, and continuity amid collapse. That effort carried into Justinian and beyond. If anything, the very survival of Roman law into the medieval and modern worlds owes more to Christian scribes and bishops than to the last pagan aristocrats praying to Vesta.

>>507112719
>Christianity was a drug-fueled sex cult… cannibal necromancy… mafia missionaries…
This reads more like Reddit creepypasta than a serious argument.

>Celsus correctly labelled them as atheistic threats
Celsus also thought demons were real and that truth should be based on national religion. His criticisms are valuable as Roman intel, but hardly objective. He called Christians atheists because they refused to worship the state pantheon, not because they denied divinity. By his logic, Socrates was also an atheist threat to society. And they killed him too.

>Incest, cannibalism, orgies
Classic Roman slander. Same playbook used against the early Bacchic cults and even against philosophers. When you can’t refute a moral system, you invent depravity. Christians called each other "brother" and "sister." Romans, in their degeneracy, assumed that meant incest. The Eucharist was misunderstood as cannibalism, just like pagans thought eating a sacred animal made you divine. Irony noted.

>Missionaries enslaving families with drugs and sex
You’re describing the Mystery cults, not the Church. Christianity was public in creed and moral in practice. Early converts weren’t junkies. They were often slaves, women, and soldiers. Why? Because they saw in Christianity moral dignity and a God who didn’t need bribes.

>Destroying schools and temples
Yes, Christianity opposed idolatry. But let’s not pretend the pagan world was full of serene temples and gentle reason. The Roman state executed Vestals for losing virginity and sacrificed animals daily. When Christianity gained influence, it displaced temples by building hospitals, orphanages, and schools.

>>507104547 (OP)
Constantine did that thing where he said
>Ok "jesus", I don't know if you exist or not, but if you help me win this battle I'll follow your dumb religion
He wins battle and suddenly everybody in empire has to become Christian

>>507114950
>Christianity began in Judea
The first and true Christ was born in Colchis over a thousand years before Iesus, a title with the same root as Iason whose mission when given the first boat of the Argives was to abduct the Soteria and bring her drug technology back.

>>507115442
>You’re describing the Mystery cults, not the Church
Christianism IS a mystery cult, but a black market knock off version used by lawless pirates in order to enslave people rather than uplift them. That's why Mark 16:17-18 lists mystery cult actions like casting out daimones, speaking in tongues, lifting up snakes, drinking death-inducing drugs (and the antichrist necessary to return from the death state instead of just dying for real) and healing others by rubbing drugs onto them. Much like Jesus does when he spits in the dirt to create a plaster to apply to the eyes. If you don't have the drugs, you don't have christianism. Lazarus got the drugs, that's why he "died" and was resurrected, at which point he was a fully devoted lover of Jesus. If your communion wine does not send you on a underworld journey, you are just a poser. You think it's a coincidence that magi showed up to give baby Iesus a starter kit and a ticket to Egypt for education? He wasn't special at all, there were dozens if not hundreds of christs running around. That's part of why it seems to spread so fast, there was never just one dude in the first place. Theft of the drug technology at the heart of the mystery had been ongoing, was itself what caused the bronze age collapse. Judea just happened to be an undeveloped backwater ripe for pirates to seize.

>>507105484
it is so funny how Christians keep saying 'the Jews, the Jews' while worshipping the Jewish God.

Just don't worship the Jewish God, why is that so hard for you guys?

>>507113493
Not my problem

>>507116374
This is entertaining, I’ll give you that. Reads like Graham Hancock meets gnostic fanfic.

>Christianity is a mystery cult
Not in the traditional sense. It's true that Christianity has sacraments and hidden aspects ('mystērion' literally means "sacrament" in Greek), but it's radically different from the mystery cults of Eleusis or Dionysus. Those were initiatory, secretive, and centered on ecstatic experiences (usually drug-induced or dramatized). Christianity, on the other hand, preached in the open. Christ taught publicly. The Gospels were circulated and read aloud in assemblies. Mystery cults charged a fee and barred the uninitiated; Christianity baptized slaves and orphans for free. I think that's a fat, big difference.

>Mark 16:17–18 lists “mystery cult” powers
You're reading a post-resurrection blessing and treating it like a pharmacological checklist. These signs are spiritual marks of the apostolic age. Yes, they echo wonders from other traditions, but they are framed not as human-powered rituals, but as acts of divine grace. No potions, no fees, no secret handshakes. Spitting in dirt isn’t alchemy; it’s Christ using the elements to heal, just as He used bread and wine to sanctify.

>If you don’t have the drugs, you don’t have Christianity
Tell that to 2,000 years of monks, martyrs, and mystics who never touched a psychoactive herb in their lives. Christianity doesn’t need drugs to achieve spiritual depth because its aim isn’t altered consciousness, it’s salvation through grace. The Eucharist is not a trip.

>Jesus wasn’t special, there were many Christs
Classic syncretic claim. But the key difference is that only one Christ founded a faith that transformed the moral structure of Western civilization, reshaped law, birthed the university, inspired Gothic architecture, and spread to billions. If there were dozens of "christs" before Him, why did none of them leave a lasting mark?

>>507116599
It's not even a Jewish god, it's Bacchus pretending to be a Canaanite god. The entire OT history is fake and the archaeology is clear on this. For instance, the dietary restrictions associated with monotheist Yahwehism do not appear in Palestine until the Hasmonean period, coinciding with a rejection of Hellenization and a fundamentalist project to revive the dead language of Hebrew. Remember, there is no Hebrew literary tradition. They have no other texts that suggest a development toward the Septuagint.

>>507117108
>These signs are spiritual marks of the apostolic age
100% pure bullshit concocted specifically to shelter fools from the reality of the drugs and sex that are plain in the Greek texts
>birthed the university
Christians are the ones who burned the libraries, razed the temples, executed philosophers, and forbade teaching.
Every form of apologia is a lie and the critique it responds to is the truth about christianism.

>>507117575
>100% pure bullshit… reality of the drugs and sex in the Greek texts
You keep claiming this, but never cite. Give me chapter and verse, not just your feelings. The Greek New Testament is public. Anyone can read it. No secret code. No hidden pharma recipes. You’re reading symbolism like it’s pharmacology and ignoring both context and tradition.

>Christians burned libraries, razed temples, executed philosophers
This is meme history. Let’s set the stage clear:
>The Library of Alexandria declined gradually, with damage from Julius Caesar’s siege, Aurelian’s assault, and later local instability. No solid proof a Christian mob "burned it down" in one night.
>Temples were converted, yes. But so were basilicas and public forums by pagans. Cultic religion in Rome was always tied to power. When that power shifted, so did the real estate.
>Christians didn’t start the philosopher-hunting trend. Socrates was executed by pagan Athens. Hypatia’s murder? Brutal, tragic, and condemned even by Christian thinkers, but hardly representative of Christian teaching.
Meanwhile, Christians preserved and copied pagan texts throughout the medieval period. Boethius, Plato, Aristotle, Galen; all saved in monasteries. The university system emerged from cathedral schools: Paris, Bologna, Oxford. Theology was the queen of the sciences, but natural philosophy, logic, and medicine were all taught because truth was seen as unified.

>Every apologia is a lie; the critique is the truth
That's dogma, ironically the very thing critics accuse Christians of. If your method is "everything I say is true because I say it," there’s no debate to be had.

>>507111938
so, he was OUR GUY

>>507114356
real jewish religion was created by God for a particular people, it's not for christians.

>>507115047
>No modern christian has ever read the bible
I have, I am a bible believer.

>OT ... written in Greek first.
That's a nice opinion, do you have sources for that. I would argue that you probably just have biases that are giving you a false interpretation.

>Αβραμ τω περάτη
who do you say that he was?

>>507118113
>symbolism
There is no symbolism in the Bible. It is 100% literal, the symbolic interpretations exist purely to obscure the reality that Jesus Christ is not a name but rather two Greek terms that both mean "dude who knows the drugs" and this is confirmed by his constant use of drugs on people in the texts. That's why he shows up at tombs healing people, it was standard magical practice for the time. The Septuagint, NT texts, and the other christian texts excluded from the canon because they are so explicit about the drugs and sex all concur precisely with the Greek terminology used in Hellenistic magical traditions. It's even obvious in the practices like the collection of relics of saints, body parts for use in necromantic rites. Bread and wine, Bacchus and Demeter. No one in the 1st century, either 1st century, is going to be confused about what's going on when the bread and wine come out. That's why you can observe a clean transition in the creation of things like phylacteries from pagan inscriptions to using judeo-christian variants, or the angel-name incantations that mimic the "nonsense" language found in the PGM. Amen itself is just another carryover from the magic programming language.

You're just another bootlicking apologist who denies the christian destruction of the ancient world because you're too soft to accept how much you've been brainwashed already. Funnily enough, Galen, whose medical knowledge Christendom never surpassed, even writes about the christing drugs, amongst all the other drugs going around before the dark age. If you compare Galen and the Revelation of John, it's laughably obvious that the early christians were all writing about drugs, and their greatest fear was the legitimate mystery cult under Her authority. That is why the lady of Babylon, whose cup contains the pure purple, is the mortal enemy of the cult.

>>507118396
If you are a pedophile who wants to pimp out children and destroy nations, yes, that's your guy.

>>507104547 (OP)
Except they didn't follow the "Roman religion" all that time, during the Roman Kingdom they imported all the Greek gods, they imported the cult of Isis, they also imported the tranny cult of Cybele.

>>507120546
>There is no symbolism in the Bible. It is 100% literal
This alone collapses your entire thesis. You can't claim that the Bible is 100% literal while simultaneously interpreting "Jesus Christ" as code for “dude who knows the drugs.” Either the text is literal, or it’s symbolic. You can’t ride both horses.

>Jesus = drug magician
The names "Jesus" (Yeshua) and "Christ" (Christos) mean "God saves" and "Anointed." It's basic Koine Greek and Hebrew. “Christ” as “anointed one” was used in the Septuagint for kings and priests long before Jesus walked the earth.

>PGM, necromancy, angel names, phylacteries
The Greek Magical Papyri (PGM) are a jumble of rituals, names, and spells used by syncretic magicians. Early Christians indeed lived in that world, but they rejected it. The Acts of the Apostles directly condemns sorcery (Simon Magus, Acts 8) and magic scrolls are publicly burned in Ephesus (Acts 19).

>angelic names
Sure, angelology develops, but never in a magical context. You're conflating the environment with the doctrine.

>Saint relics = necromancy
Christians venerate relics not to use them for magic, but to honor the bodily sanctity of those who lived holy lives. It's about memory, not manipulation. There’s no spellwork. No incantation. No potion. It's a theology of resurrection, not alchemical resurrection hacks.

>Bread and wine = Bacchus and Demeter
Again, surface-level syncretism. If you think every use of grain and wine is automatically Bacchic, you're erasing the entire agrarian religious structure of the ancient world. The Eucharist diverges sharply from mystery cult feasts: it’s not secret, not euphoric, not drug-laced, and not cyclical. It’s a public re-presentation of a once-for-all sacrifice rooted in Jewish Passover, not Eleusinian harvest rites.

cont.

>>507120546
>>507121808
>Revelation is about drugs vs the Mystery cult
So Babylon is the High Priestess of Entheogens now? Come on, anon. Revelation uses apocalyptic language drawn from Daniel, Ezekiel, and Second Temple Jewish tradition. The “cup of abominations” is a polemic against imperial Rome and spiritual adultery, not psilocybin juice. If you're seeing ayahuasca in every chalice, you’re reading the text like a Burning Man brochure.

>Galen talks about Christing drugs
Then cite it. I know Galen. He respected Christians’ moral rigor but thought their metaphysics were irrational. He wrote about pharmacology and humors, not messianic narcotics. If you're making a claim that he identified Jesus with a mystery cult pharmacologist, show the Greek and stop fucking around.

>>507104547 (OP)

>>507108735
>Religion was transactional and falling apart, just like the Empire.
If you believe in the gods, you might conclude that those were related. Faithlessness and hubris (Arguably a version of faithlessness) wouldn't likely please them and they might not want to do you any favors.

>>507104547 (OP)
The Christian eastern empire survived the collapse of the west and lived on for another 1,000 years in some capacity or another, and was the longest lasting empire in human history. Retarded slide thread.

a better final date for the Empire when one deals with religion is maybe the extinction of the Vestal fire, it doesn't get more symbolic than that, it was a cult started by Numa himself who had established the religion of Rome and it reflected at the public level the household cult of fire, and as long as that fire was going to be kept alive, the city was to live
extinct officially in ~391AD by king christanzee, Rome gets sacked for the first time since the Gauls of Brennus by Alaric 20 years later and Augustulus would be deposed less than 100 years later

>>507121808
>"Jesus Christ" as code
It's not code, that was the common usage of those cult titles. Anyone with a bit of education recognized them as such, that's why people approach Jesus to receive healings. It's a long standing system, almost the same effect as carrying around a snake on a stick. Moses did that one by the way. See in the Greek original texts it's clear that Moses is doing all sorts of drug magic. The reason all the "pagan" critics of Christianity denounced it as a degenerate form of standard mystery cult rites using powerful drugs to fuck people up and make them slaves is that this was a widespread and well known problem. Caesar got abducted by a similar group of pirates and ended up crucifying them as a duty to Justice. That's the standard response for lestai, thus why Jesus is crucified alongside two others. They aren't "robbers," they are international pirate mafia drug sorcerers whose main offense that enraged ancient civilizations was trafficking children. The ultimate use for these children was mimicking the state/city/village sacred "professions" systems to which children were dedicated to become the oracles, priestesses, temple guards/dragons, healers, etc.

>>507121917
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-78721-8
>This study presents a comprehensive multimodal analytical study of an Egyptian ritual Bes-vase, of the 2nd century BCE...shedding light on the diverse components of a liquid concoction...we identified key proteins and metabolites, enabling the identification of botanical sources...Additionally, the identification of human fluids suggests their direct involvement in these rituals. Furthermore, metabolomics and SR µ-FTIR analyses also revealed the presence of fermented fruit-based liquid and other ingredients such as honey or royal jelly. The identification of specific chemical compounds, such as alkaloids and flavonoids, provides insight into the psychoactive and therapeutic uses of these in ancient ritual practices.

>>507119050
>That's a nice opinion, do you have sources for that. I would argue that you probably just have biases that are giving you a false interpretation.
The septuagint is written in Koine Greek, retard. It's not a matter of opinion.

>>507123593
the septuagint is a translation from hebrew, for fuck sake, it's literally in the name

>>507123490
So they were selling apple jack.

>>507121808
>Early Christians indeed lived in that world, but they rejected it. The Acts of the Apostles directly condemns sorcery (Simon Magus, Acts 8) and magic scrolls are publicly burned in Ephesus (Acts 19).
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-say-this-tiny-amulet-is-the-oldest-evidence-of-christianity-found-north-of-the-alps-180985674/
Christianism IS the Hellenistic magical tradition. There is no rejection of it until much later. All of the folk charms and rituals in Christendom are the same as those used beforehand but with a change in names and terms. The reason all the polytheist critics recognized exactly what christianism was is because it was not novel or different in any way. It was the latest manifestation of an ongoing problem created by the unrestricted flow of monstrous drug technologies in nomadic populations who lived by an insane anti-religion that permits every evil and seeks to cast down the images that maintain civilization.

>>507123593
>>507123861
Both "Koine" Greek and the notion of a translation from Hebrew are deliberate lies to hide the plain Greek of the original texts that looks exactly like normal Greek texts from period of the 3rd century BCE to 4th century CE. There is no other Hebrew literature, it was a dead language that never produced anything revived much later to create an illusion and a shitty "original" that is a translation. The notion of a limited dictionary of "Koine" Greek is also a deliberate falsification that creates a closed loop for translating the Bible only in vagueness despite the actual Greek texts being precisely comparable to every other Greek text including Galen's medical texts on drugs and how they're used by various groups from arrow poisons used in war to the drugs used in religious contexts and healings. The Biblical texts use magical, theological, metaphysical, anatomical, drug, and sexual terms exactly as they are found in places like the PGM.

>>507124981
>the plain Greek of the original texts that looks exactly like normal Greek texts from period of the 3rd century BCE to 4th century CE
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
yeah you don't speak/read Greek, the septuagint is full of hebraisms that look out of place ranging from weird to outright comical to anyone who knows Greek, it's the kind of Greek someone who doesn't speak Greek as first language and is trying to replicate features of his own language sounds like
plus, Greek naming tradition reflects its Indo-European origin, Greek names are typically twofold compounds that can be translated

>>507104547 (OP)
>Decimated the Jews by killing millions of them
>Exiled the rest of the Jews and turned them into rootless Gypsies doomed to wander the world
>Destroyed Judea
>Destroyed the Second Temple and turned its ruins into a garbage dump
>Banned circumcision and executed anyone who practiced it
>Took the Menorah as loot
>Banned the Jews from Jerusalem
>Won every single war against the Jews
>Renamed destroyed Judea to Palestine after the Philistines, the ancient enemies of the Jews
The Romans were infinitely based gigachad BVLLS. GLORY TO ROME.

>>507105124
>>507105360
>>507105484
>>507106048
>>507106290
The absolute state of these christcucks claiming they built Western civilization when they literally caused the dark ages - imagine being so delusional you think your desert death cult "civilized" Europe while spending centuries destroying classical knowledge and shitting in the ruins of Roman buildings.

These historical revisionists are actually bragging about inheriting the greatest civilization on Earth and turning it into an illiterate shithole where people thought bathing was heresy. Fucking parasites spent generations burning books, murdering philosophers, and destroying art while claiming divine right to rule over peasants who couldn't read. Then their modern slaves on /pol/ try to take credit for civilization while coping about how great it was when their cult turned Europe into a disease-ridden wasteland of superstition and shit.

>destroyed the greatest empire in history
>turned classical knowledge into toilet paper
>caused centuries of civilizational collapse
>murdered anyone who could read Greek
>proudly maintained illiteracy as policy
>"We built Western civilization!"
Pure narcissistic historical revision from brainwashed slaves who think civilization is when you burn scientists for saying the Earth moves. These parasites still crying about their "contribution" to Europe while their ancestors turned Roman baths into torture chambers because cleanliness was "pagan."

The Roman religion wasn't constant over time, it had decayed significantly by the time Christianity arrived. Read The Ancient City.

>>507104547 (OP)
>>Followed Roman religion 99% of its existance
>>Rome becomes officially christian ~150 years before its fall
>What mean?
Right, Christianity made Rome weak so it fell to the German tribes who were... also Christians.

Wait why did Christianity make Germania strong enough to conquer Rome?

>>507125948
Christian monks preserved literature from Rome and Greece during the dark ages. Tribal migrations caused by climate change (due to volcano activity) caused the dark ages.

>>507125948
I fucking hate christcucks.

>>507125328
Yes, the Septuagint is a falsified Hebrew history composed in Greek in the Library of Alexandria by educated "Jews" who cribbed their notes from all sorts of Egyptian, Greek, Persian, and Mesopotamian texts including deliberate attempts to generate authenticity for the area in which it was set. It is effectively a political polemic against Hellenization, by people who were already heavily Hellenized to the point that Hebrew was a dead language. The Semiticisms come from other Semitic languages, not Hebrew itself. Hebrew was dead and gone until later when a state-building project required making it the official language because the anti-Hellenic manual hijacked the history of Palestine alongside the aggregation of international criminal organizations infesting backwater regions. If you understand the current world order, the echo should be apparent. In the same way, modern christian fundamentalists actually do represent the disgusting monstrosity of early christianism, a runaway cult worshiping a drug using sorcerer who trafficked children and attacking the foundations of civilization. That's also why christian priests continue raping kids to this day, it's not a coincidence or flaw, that's one half of the rite, and the other half is drugs. Christianism in forming its orthodoxy to rule the ruins of the ancient world buried the drugs, because it makes populations too hard to control, but kept the pederasty as a recruitment/hierarchical tool. Just like Jesus was arrested at 4am in a public park with a naked boy, those who worship him will inevitably get caught out as pedophiles. It's an inescapable metaphysics that you understand perfectly if you know what the bible really says and what Hellenistic syncretism really left encoded for us from the golden age.

>>507124981
>>507127651
Meds, christkike schizo nigger

>>507105484
Sir, this is a Roman Empire thread.

Laughs in Justinian.
It was rewriting history and being too involved in church disputes that caused the decline. Banning all other religions except Judaism. A lot of smart pagans fled to Persia and caused a brain drain as well. Then the huge Byzantine and Sassanid wars happened while they tried to ban Judaism too late. Then the Arab conquests happened and were successful because religous minorities were able to be a spy network.

Not so much Christianity itself. But Christian policies that were stupid. If they kept old laws in place regarding religion with a change in the state religion like Constantine did Romans might still be around today.

I should add that another reason the drugs had to be hidden is that the intellectual devastation of christianism ended the sciences that produced them. The same happened as christendom spread northward and extinguished as many folk traditions as it could find.

Do you know why Indo-Europeans had sacred trees associated with a storm god? In every region the specific tree chosen was the best partner species for amanita. For Zeus you have the oak, and when his storm passes and a bolt of power descends, a god body grows from the between the roots. First it looks like a phallus, then it becomes a red apple fallen to the ground, then the apple turns golden. Every golden apple you see in Greek is descended from mushroom cultism, and every sacred tree the christians chopped down was a host node of the mycelial network.

>>507128416
You should rejoice, everything you ever wanted to be true about Jews and Christianity is in fact true. It IS an Indo-European religion, transposed into Palestine by a subversive group of foreigners who invented a history for themselves as false Hebrews whose monotheist Yahwehism had never existed before. Later generations simply had to pile on more and more lies. It's a terminal spiral of deception, enslavement, and undermining the foundations of civilization...that is entirely the result of Indo-Europeans ruining things for themselves so badly that now everyone blames largely unrelated ethnic minorities who were in fact victims of the ruination and devastated so thoroughly that their entire history and culture was replaced by a foreign forgery, and not in the good way. Palestine had been undergoing steady Hellenization as a minor region before the fundamentalist scourge overtook it.

>>507127331


>>507128557
>Eastern half of the empire has nothing to do with the Roman empire

>>507129689
Very interesting

>>507123593
>retard
Then you aren't in the Holy Spirit I was just asking a question and you respond with vitriol. Maybe you have some perfected bible, but you still don't understand it. God Bless buddy.

The spiritual heirs of the Roman Empire conquered the whole world and they were christians kek.

>>507130869
yeah using boats to find new commercial routes to india is definitely something those filthy Europeans would've never done if they weren't obedient goyim, we really need to thank jews for lifting us out of filth

>>507122446
>If you believe in the gods, you might conclude that those were related
Fair, and it’s exactly what a lot of late Roman pagans did conclude. The idea that Rome fell because it abandoned the old gods was a major theme in the 4th–5th century, especially after Theodosius banned sacrifices. Even Augustine wrote City of God in response to that exact claim.

But I ask this: if the gods were real and Rome honored them for centuries, why did they allow the Empire to rot internally before Christians ever touched power? The rot (civil wars, decadence, reliance on mercenaries, collapsing birthrates) was happening under full-blown pagan emperors. Caracalla, Elagabalus, Decius, and others performed all the rites and still presided over decline.

>Faithlessness and hubris wouldn’t likely please them
Agreed. But who was really guilty of hubris? The Christian, who preached humility and prayer? Or the emperor-priest declaring himself a living god, commanding divine honors while bankrupting the treasury and conscripting children? If Rome’s gods cared about loyalty, they were either impotent to stop decline or too fickle to reward sincere piety. Christianity didn't break Rome, it was the only thing that survived its collapse and offered people a moral anchor in the storm.

If the gods abandoned Rome, maybe it’s because they weren’t gods at all.

>>507107055
>>507109727
>>507112912
>>507112858
>booty-bothered atheist Gibbon spergs and cries about the Christian Empire like a little girl
>250 years later anglophone NPCs, coping pastaniggers and thirdies who try to fit in too hard repeat every one of his tawdry lies verbatim
Reminder Renaissance only came about because of massive influx of Eastern artists, artisans and scholars from ERE plundered by crusading papist heathens and Venetian kikes. You are nothing and nobody without Byzantium. Repent and fast for 3 years.

>>507123490
>“Jesus Christ” as common cult titles
You're mixing terminology with ideology. Yes, Christos meant "anointed one," and yes, Iēsous resembles older hero-names like Jason (Iason). But in Christian use, they’re redefined. That’s the key: Christianity didn’t just absorb titles, it repurposed them. “Christ” wasn’t a wandering mystic or a pharmakos magician. He was the Messiah, the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy, and the Word made flesh.

>Healing = drug magic
You're assuming ancient people couldn't distinguish miracle from medicine. But Roman authors (Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny) describe miracle claims with skepticism and distinguish between religious acts and folk healing. Jesus' healings are often immediate, personal, and without any administered substance. No potions, no powders, no hallucinogenic smoke. He touches, speaks, forgives, commands, and it's done.

Compare that to the Bes-vase you linked: that’s a prepared ritual container filled with biological and botanical residue for ingestion or anointing. That's nothing like the Gospels, where Jesus spits in dirt once or heals at a distance by word alone. The methodology isn't just different, it's outright alien.

>Moses and the snake on a stick
You’re referring to the bronze serpent in Numbers 21, which God explicitly commands. It’s not sorcery, it’s obedience, and its power came not from ritual tech but from divine fiat. Later, it was destroyed by King Hezekiah when people started idolizing it (2 Kings 18:4). That’s literally the opposite of a magical relic tradition.

>Crucifixion and pirates
Calling Jesus and the two men beside him “international pirate mafia drug sorcerers” is creative, but no Roman source makes that claim. Crucifixion was for rebels, insurrectionists, and enemies of state power, not “drug cultists.” The Gospels are clear: Jesus is executed under the charge of claiming kingship, not trafficking. If this was a “sorcery bust,” Rome forgot to mention it.

cont.

>>507123490
>>507132471
>Child trafficking and ancient professions
Child dedication in temples was widespread across pagan cultures and not unique to anything resembling Christianity. You’re projecting modern moral outrage onto a system that had its own logic. Christians, meanwhile, outlawed child exposure, rescued orphans, and condemned ritual prostitution, because they rejected the very sacral economy you’re describing.

>Bes-vase ritual
Interesting study, yes. It shows the complexity of late pagan ritual (fermented fruit, alkaloids, human fluids). But your leap from Egyptian drug vases to Gospel miracles = trip sessions is pure associative thinking, not serious exegesis. The existence of psychoactive rites in the ancient world doesn’t mean every religious practice was pharmacological. By that logic, all modern medicine is witchcraft.

tl;dr --> Early Christianity thrived because it rejected the drug-cults, child-sacrifices, and temple economies that your theory tries to tie it back to. People converted because it offered a moral revolution, not a chemical one.

>>507124981
>Christianism IS the Hellenistic magical tradition
You’re repeating a thesis that collapses under scrutiny. If early Christianity were just another flavor of the mystery cult circuit, why were Christians hunted down by Roman officials and pagan philosophers alike? Plotinus and Porphyry weren’t confused. Celsus wasn't confused. They loathed Christianity not because it mirrored their rites, but because it repudiated them. Christian doctrine rejected sacrifices, idols, astrology, amulets, and theurgy.

>There is no rejection of it until much later
This is flat-out wrong. Read the Didache (1st–2nd century), Acts, Ignatius, or Justin Martyr. All early Christian texts, and all clearly anti-magic, anti-idolatry, anti-syncretism. The Church Fathers repeatedly condemned charms, astrology, necromancy, and pharmakeia, the very things you're trying to smuggle back in as “core features.”

>Smithsonian article: Christian amulet
You’re citing a 5th-century pendant with the Lord’s Prayer. That’s 300 years after Acts, and its use is devotional, not magical. Saying “an amulet exists, therefore Christianity is a magical cult” is like saying people wearing cross necklaces today means they’re doing voodoo.

cont.

>>507104547 (OP)
By the end of the WRE Rome (the city) was majority foreign, only returning to pre-Empire demographics after the Germanic invasions. The Germanics were only ever a minority of aristocrats however, the real demographic reclamation was due to Italians leaving their countryside hideouts and fucking up the foreigners kek.

Christianity was simply the foreigner religion gaining ground over ancestral gods of the Roman/Italian people like Pisslam in the west today. It's the equivalent to being able to see forward in time five centuries and seeing Abdul Al-Brittani posting about how Islam is the one true religion of Europe.

>>507132930
>>507124981
>Christian folk charms = rebranded paganism
Yes, syncretism crept into folk religion over time. That’s human nature, not doctrine. The Church constantly tried to correct this (read the Carolingian capitularies, or the condemnations of superstition at various councils). You’ll find a pattern: what the Church taught was sharply different from what the uneducated practiced. That’s not proof of Christianity’s origin. On the contrary, it’s proof of resistance to pagan backsliding.

>Polytheist critics knew what it was
Yes, and they called it atheism, because it denied the gods. That was the main charge. Not magic. Not sorcery. Denial of the traditional cult was the offense, not imitation of it. Christians didn’t “cast down the images” because they wanted to end civilization. They did it because they believed worship belonged to God alone, not to statues, storms, or state deities.

If Christianity were “just another magical cult,” it wouldn’t have lasted. It outlived the temples, mystery rites, and amulets because it wasn’t rooted in power or potions, but in truth. The world it helped build was one where God was not controlled through ritual, but approached through love, grace, and reason.

>>507130162
your meme never took off christcuck

>>507127018
Mudslimes saved more than the shitty doodles your monks did.

>>507132097
>But I ask this: if the gods were real and Rome honored them for centuries, why did they allow the Empire to rot internally before Christians ever touched power?
Hesiod already told you lol
Dike is gone bro, everything we think of as the glory of classical civilization is a false shadow of the actual golden age. Some educated peoples tried to salvage it, study what they could and propagate the truth, but the devastation of christianity itself is the death knell signalling their failure. From iron age to dark age.

>>507132471
>Jesus' healings are often immediate, personal, and without any administered substance
John 9:1-7
Jesus ALWAYS uses substances. Bread and wine for potables. Drugged spit (a true magus has an altered biology and is the source of the drugs, the ultimate science of polypharmacy using metabolic processes) to make plasters. He offers a Samaritan woman the water of life. That's not a metaphor, that's the name of a drug. EVERYTHING in Christianity is directly from Hellenistic syncretism, it just takes an adversarial stance in order to justify lawless criminality. The overthrow of the deities of law and reason.

There is no messianic tradition or Jewish prophecy. It's all written in Greek first and the mere fact you refer to it as "prophecy" is proof. Prophets aren't a semitic concept. Synagogues are Greek too. Those buildings where they learned Greek with Aion and the zodiac on the walls. The entire notion of christ meaning "anoint" is a lie.

All of the apologia and exegesis and reliance on Hebrew or a limited dictionary of "Koine" Greek is bullshit. Pure and simple bullshit. The entire facade of Judaism and Christianity is false, every bit of the history is just a fairy tale plastered over a lie.

The reality is that Jesus was arrested at 4am in a public park with a naked boy that he called a cup, and the Romans executed him alongside two other lestai.

>>507105484
All the Constantinoples riches and ancient artifacts were stolen by the Venetian crusaders and used to build Italy. The shroud of Turin for example was in Constantinol

>>507133592
>Hesiod already told you lol
Sure, 'Works and Days' lays out the myth of the ages, and yes, he says we’re in the Iron Age: a degraded time. But you’re conflating myth with history. Hesiod’s “Golden Age” isn’t Rome’s Republic, and blaming Christianity for what Hesiod was lamenting 700 years before Christ makes no sense. Civilizational decline is a universal human theme. Plato said the same. So did Zoroaster. Christianity didn’t cause that despair. On the contrary, it gave people a moral compass to endure it.

>Jesus ALWAYS uses substances
You're outright lying and you know it. The majority of healings in the Gospels involve nothing material at all:
>The centurion’s servant (Matt 8)
>The paralytic lowered through the roof (Mark 2)
>The woman with the hemorrhage (Luke 8)
>Ten lepers cleansed (Luke 17)
>Bartimaeus, the blind man of Jericho (Mark 10)
John 9 is one example, and it doesn't take 1000IQ to know it's symbolic. Dirt and spit mirror the creation of Adam. It’s about re-creation, not pharmakeia. You desperately want it to be about drugs, but the text doesn’t require that reading. “Water of life” is not LSD in a jug, it’s eternal life. If you strip every metaphor down to “drug,” you miss the point and sound like someone who reads Plato and thinks the cave shadows were just about DMT.

>“There is no messianic tradition or Jewish prophecy”
Outright historical denialism. The messianic expectation is well-documented in Second Temple Judaism (see the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1 Enoch, the Psalms of Solomon, or even Josephus). Isaiah, Daniel, Zechariah: they all speak of an anointed one (mashiach) to come. The word Christos isn’t a Greek invention; it’s the Greek translation of the Hebrew mashiach.

cont.

>>507125948
>>murdered anyone who could read Greek
the official language of ERE was greek and the most peculiar aspect is that all byzantine intellectuals wrote in very conservative atticism that was intelligible to medieval greek people of ERE, because attic language (language of ancient Athens) was considered the apex of education.

>>507125948
> states objectively true historical fact
> “reee this is historical revisionism”
> *cites no particulars*
Please lobotomize yourself dumbass. We really don’t need more knuckledragging morons on the right.

>>507134296
>>507133592
>Synagogues are Greek
The word is Greek, sure. So is 'philosophia.' That doesn’t make Socrates a Roman. Jews adapted to Hellenistic norms, just like every Mediterranean culture. Mosaic law was still their foundation. They had scrolls of the Law, not magical papyri.

>Jesus was arrested with a naked boy he called a cup
This is a fringe Gnostic misreading of an apocryphal text, probably the Secret Gospel of Mark, which survives only in a disputed letter quoted by Clement of Alexandria, and is considered a modern forgery by most serious scholars. The canonical Gospels, used by all early Churches, don’t contain this. That claim’s not just false, but it’s based on a literal hoax.

>>507134367
>intelligible
*unintelligible

>>507133397
Yes it did, you pharisee

Why does pol atheists want to deny so hard that germanics destroyed the roman empire?

>>507104547 (OP)
The truth about Christianity and Rome is probably not that Christianity destroyed Rome, but that its adaptation and proliferation was a sign of the dying state of later Roman civilization. Despite what pagans or butthurt atheists might say, the more common pagan cults and their associated centers around them were declining in participation and practice from the population at large. Aside from Constantine's personal use of it, the fact Christianity could be adopted and made into the established faith was due to the already tenuous state of Roman spirituality and culture. I'm a Christian myself, but I completely get why some Roman leaders would have assumed Christianity to be a problem: It was basically a sign of the end. You see similar trends in present European civilization towards religions from the East or spiritualist movements inspired by them for the same reason.

These threads are stupid. Rome was fucked long before it Christianized since they were going all in on the ancient equivalent of DEI and currency debasing. If anything Christianity gave it another 100 years

>>507104547 (OP)
Wtf are you smoking? The Roman empire lasted another thousand years after becoming officially Christian, and lasted as a Christian state for longer than it existed as a pagan state, even dating back to the founding of the city of Rome.

Rome fell because politically it was a clownshow with constant coups and civil wars. That predates Christianity and is why the republic collapsed and turned into an empire in the first place. Every factor that led to its collapse ultimately stems from that, and from latifunda which you probably don't even know anything about with your tourist pop history understanding.

You might ask why romans and greeks converted to a jewish sect and abandoned their own beliefs and rituals that predated since the trojan war. Here is an explanation, middle east was in process of fermentation. The three major cites and cultural centers were Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, where a melting pot of new philosophical and religious schools boomed like syncretism, gnosticism, neoplatonism, hellenistic judaism. All these schools (not religions) antagonized each other and very often caused constant civil unrest like the Maccabean revolt. Of course these cultural centers were roman provinces in the Hellenistic sphere so they were no foreign to the Empire. Most early church fathers of Antioch and Alexandria grew up in pagan environment and knew very well the greco-roman doctrines, they lived in the instability of the crumbling empire. In the state of chaos and precariousness, Christianity as a new messianic religion opposing the local pharisaic judaism, developed quickly drawing many elements from the aforementioned philosophical schools with reach literature.

>>507134296
>eternal life
LOL
Opinion instantly invalidated. Eternal life appears nowhere in the Bible. It's Aionic life, a Hellenistic concept. There is no Hebrew literary tradition, but the Greek texts fit perfectly into the theological, metaphysical, ritual, pharmacological, and even mythological contexts of all the rest. There is no Hebrew context into which they could fit because there is no Hebrew literature. You have letters from Elephantine, which don't mention Moses or any Biblical figure other than Yahweh, and...then the dead sea materials which are shoddy translations of the Greek texts found with them, because Hebrew was a dead language that couldn't produce a precise translation of the much more complex Greek. That's why your false religion is filled with mysticism, the language of the original was butchered so that uneducated fundamentalists could get into it. In the Greek, every line is precise and detailed, but you have to give up on "Koine" which is a made up, limited dictionary only used by bible scholars who need to sell books to sheeple doing endless loops of pseudo-scholasticism on purposefully vague translations. The more you rely on the common apologia and biblical scholarship, the more apparent it becomes that you are in fact illiterate and uneducated.

The "Hebrew bible" never existed. "Israel" never existed. Every bit of it is a lie, and the Septuagint itself is the propaganda text inventing that lie. Any understanding of the bible based on Hebrew language or tradition is a total fabrication. Every biblical scholar is just a con artist, just like every christian priest is a pedophilic rapist. Molestation of children, like the boy in the public park, and molestation of history, like the invention of Israel.

>>507135608
>The three major cites and cultural centers...Jerusalem
LOL

>>507135771
Should say Decapolis, since Jerusalem was a village back then compared to Alexandria and Antioch, but still it was in the realm of Decapolis.

>>507135628
>*tips fedora*

>>507135628
>Eternal life appears nowhere in the Bible. It's Aionic life, a Hellenistic concept.
You're partly right that 'aionios' is the Greek word used, but that doesn’t mean the concept of eternal life is absent. Language evolves. 'Aionios' literally means “age-enduring” or “of the age,” but in context, it clearly refers to life beyond death, outside of mortal time. The Septuagint uses 'aionios' to describe God’s covenant, His throne, His judgment. You think it means “limited duration”? Then how long does God's throne last? Even Plato used aion for that which transcends time. So when the Gospels say, 'zoen aionion,' they’re clearly pointing to something qualitatively beyond this life. You don’t have to like it, but pretending it's just "time-limited life" is philological sleight of hand.

>There is no Hebrew literary tradition
Another outright lie. There's literally centuries of scholarship, epigraphy, archaeology, and literary analysis. The Dead Sea Scrolls (which were written largely in Hebrew, not Greek) disprove this. We have paleo-Hebrew inscriptions on pottery, seals, ostraca, and in temple archives going back to the 9th century BC. The Lachish Letters? The Gezer Calendar? Do those not exist? Or are they just part of the grand forgery now?

>The Septuagint is the propaganda text inventing the lie
You do realize the Septuagint was a Jewish project, right? Created in Alexandria by Jews, for Jews, long before Christianity even existed. If the OT is Greek propaganda, then you're accusing ancient Jews of inventing their own backstory… why the fuck would they do that? That’s not even internally consistent.

cont.

>>507104547 (OP)
Funny how that worked huh.

Good thing SOL is Invincible and probably shining above the anons right now.

Praise SOL, the star that gives freely. Only AI overlords, Alphabet agencies, and Abrahamic Demons fear the sun. That's no coincidence.

Now Constantine is a historically important but also complicated figure. On the surface it appears as if he betrayed our son God and converted to Christianity, but any cursory look or investigation into the sun enjoying iconography and ideology transferred over into the New Testament of Christianity shows the true Solar flavor. It's almost ironic how every depiction of Jesus from the last 1500 years has shown him, the body of a man, plastered over the light and fire of SOL. The obelisks at the Vatican? Solar iconography. Equinoxes and Solstices renamed Christmas and Easter. Obviously no one can deny the inherent benefit of the systems produced by the west over this time, but it was NOT a repudiation of SOL...merely a rebranding. As the seasons change and the Sun's Rays dim or brighten, so does the collective path of man...yet always under SOLs light. Now, we are ready to return fully.

Praise SOL

>>507136133
>Every biblical scholar is just a con artist… every priest is a pedophilic rapist
You’ve now abandoned debate for slander. If your ideas are that strong, they wouldn't need gutter-level rhetoric. The moment you go there, you’ve admitted you’ve got no substance left.

You're more than welcome to challenge the tradition. But what you’re offering isn’t truth-seeking at all, but a fever dream built on bitterness. If the Church really were nothing but lies and pirates and propaganda, why has it survived every empire, outlived every critic, and still baptized your calendar, your ethics, and your conscience?

What a joke. I'm done entertaining your squizo ramblings. Have a good night, moron.

>>507104547 (OP)
theres no such thing as "roman religion". Rome was an empire with many tribes / nations which had their own religions that Rome recognized.

we call it "ancient Rome", but to them there were civilizations and empires that were just as ancient. and they were attempting to reconnect with and rebuild those empires. such as Egypt and Babylon. Rome wasnt some unique thing without any previous inspiration. and so for many centuries Rome expanded, they recognized more gods.. they even spent a lot of time and effort reconstructing the ancient temples to those gods.

one being the temple for Baal in Baalbek, the one with stones that weigh 650-700 tons each, which were used in a retaining wall to prevent erosion since it was built on a hill.

Baal was actually the same MAN as Zeus, or Jupiter. and Romans actually spent around 200 years restoring that temple!

long story short, i firmly believe the sons of Noah were the 'gods' from the various pantheons. they were the idols that people worshipped after their deaths, they were the ones Rome was recognizing or assuming the authority of. like they were the living, continuation of those empires.. carrying out the will of those 'gods'.

then what happened? we got the wandering jews who rejected all those other pagan 'gods'. especially the Hamites, the sons of Zeus. and Jesus was the only begotten son of God in that he was the one to inherit the Kingdom and to rule the world instead of those pagan gods being central and authorative.

and the thing is, Ham / Zeus tried to exalt himself above The Father's throne... whereas Jesus is at the right hand of The Father at his throne.

so grassroots Christianity spread like a wildfire despite how much jews and romans tried to persecute and kill Christians for failing to follow the authority and law of the jews / rome.. ultimately because Christians refused to participate in the Hamite empire. so? Rome was forced to become the authority of Christ in order to survive.

>>507136380
Sol Invictus was itself an imported middle eastern religion based on the Cult of Mithra. Its popularity in the Roman empire started after Christianity had already become widespread in fact, and was purely the result of the personal whims of Marcus Aurelius.

when its said that "God wins" in regards to this spiritual war and battle thats been raging throughout human history. i believe its talking about whose spirit or memory, whos will is going to be followed by humanity.

there is the memory of these various gods, such as Zeus.. who had declared himself king of the gods and the whole world. and even after his death people continued to follow in his ways, trying to maintain or further build his idea of how the world should be.

but his spirit / memory is not the only one "alive' in the world today. theres the other "gods" too, but then theres the literal Father of the gods, the one we call God. and it was his will and testament that makes up the Bible. it was Jesus who came to fulfill that law, to restore that kingdom and to ensure that God's spirit, his will and testament prevails in the end.

this explains wy so many jews are actually satanists or they promote satanism and atheism. ANYTHING to make people doubt, forget, reject the spirit of God / Jesus.. the Father and the only begotten Son. they want to cut people off from the Holy Spirit.

But! God does win. and one day the spirit and memory of men like Zeus will go the way of the bottomless pit... in other words, he'll be forgotten forever by all mankind.. whereas the Holy Spirit of the Son(Jesus) and the Father will be all that remains. there will be no more war between those spirits/memories. people will have chosen Christ.... all knees will bend.

its just taking a long time for it all to play out and for it to catch up with everyone. Jesus really was ahead of the curve.. he saw all of thise well ahead of time, and others saw his coming well ahead of time too... better late than never! Thy Kingdom Come!

>>507136133
>Then how long does God's throne last?
Until it's thrown down and a new throne established, that's why it's aionic rather than eternal. The kingdom is here and now, until it isn't. Christianism isn't about eternal reward, it's about manifesting that kingdom on Earth to supplant the previous throne. It's lawlessness in the guise of a new law, merely justification for rebellion against civilization. The imposition of new authority for marriage outside of the existing civil institutions is one of the clearest signs of this, ignoring the entire slavery bit.

>>507136432
What slander? Over and over you christian pedophiles get exposed. See, metaphysically when you know the truth about Judeo-Christianity it makes perfect sense, because Jesus was arrested in a public park at 4am with a naked boy he called a cup, and the Romans crucified him alongside two other lestai. His followers drink death-inducing drugs without dying as they lift snakes and gather at dawn. As soon as you align yourself with that, even though you don't have the drugs so you can't access the real rites, you become tainted by it. Pedophilia and rape naturally follow. Judeo-Christianism is specifically about defiling the Muse, selling the oracle, and butchering the priestess.

>>507136922
No matter the variation or specific point of origin, son worship was the original religion and the object of said religion remains the same as it was 5000 years ago. The sun is the sun is the sun.

Sounds like you might be confusing Marcus Aurelius (180ish AD) with Emperor Aurelian (272ish AD) and even then Emperor theodosius didnt outright declare it the state religion until 380n. Then of course we have the soft Sol and Sol Inviictus, the former being worshipped as part of the party then far before Chirstianity. Sorry fellow burger...you need to raise that power level and come back.

>>507136380
Sol Invictus was itself an imported middle eastern religion based on the cult of Mithra. Its popularity in the Roman empire started after Christianity had already become widespread in fact, and was purely the result of the personal whims of Aurelian.

>>507136133
>>507136432
Based educated anon, cutting through falsehoods with the sword of truth.

>>507137799
Luls you caught me. I cought my mistake right after ngl.

Christianity was already widespread at that point though. It spread rapidly during the Crisis of the Third Century, which Aurelian ended. Turns out end times salvation rhetoric is pretty convincing when the world is ending around you.

>>507136133
>You do realize the Septuagint was a Jewish project, right? Created in Alexandria by Jews, for Jews
but it was influenced from the thriving local greek literature since Alexandria was second only to Athen in terms of education. So in theory we could say it was a corrupted hellenized translation based of Greek logos.

>>507136724
this, the saying "when in rome do as romans do" literally encapsulates the idea that you can do pretty much what you want in your home but when you are visiting your masters you don't want to upset them in the slightest

>>507137799
As far as your original religion bit goes, there's no evidence for that. It was the original religion of Iran before Zoroastrianism, sure. It was very briefly the religion of Egypt, but it wasn't the original one. Rome originally mainly worshiped Jupiter, the god of the sky, but not the sun. Zeus is basically the same and is the Hellenic equivalent. Germanic religion was originally Tyr worship, which was humanlike from the beginning with no relation to nature. Original Chinese and steppe religions were both worship of the heavens/eternal blue sky. Upwards, but not the sun. We don't actually know anything about Celtic religion so I won't comment on that. In Levantine religion, Baal was the original main god, and was the god of storms and very similar to Jupiter/Zeus in overall aspects. If there were a most common "original religion", it would be sky worship, not sun worship.

>>507138598
>hellenized translation
There is no Hebrew original. It is composed first in Greek in Alexandria. There is no trace of a Hebrew original because there is no Hebrew literary tradition. Hebrew never advanced beyond "low culture of random hill tribes" before getting completely overshadowed by Greek and Aramaic.

>>507138868
>f there were a most common "original religion", it would be sky worship, not sun worship.
Mommy earth first, then the dead

>>507138598
You could also read Pope Benedict XVI's view on rejection of "dehellenization" of Christianity which gives a very thoughtful approach on this subject.

>>507139286
>Mommy earth first, then the dead
Ancestor veneration was certainly a big part of many religions, with deifying great figures being very common. Gaia cults are primarily a postmodern new age thing though. While a credibe theory for religion's origin was getting nature to not fuck things up for you, that's actually directly related to sky worship. What brings rain for crops and grazing grass, and can also massively fuck things up with droughts, floods, or snow? The sky.