Thread 507255557

Capitalism. This is what Capitalism is. They require slaves. I told you. You screeched "COMMIE" at young men who just wanted to be paid enough to have a family. Now your reward is to die in Iran! Enjoy!

>>507255557 (OP)
The Christmas rug pull last year plus this has literally made me a Socialist. I was wrong.

What a world.

>>507255557 (OP)
Reminder that at any point Trump could say "actually these mega billion agricultural firms need to pay american farmers a good wage instead of importing cheap labor." but he wont because those are the dicks he sucks.

>>507255557 (OP)
I that's true, commies should support deportations to destroy capitalism

funny that they don't

>>507255557 (OP)
You're all retarded to think it's one or the other. It's a hybrid system. Capitalism for me, Communism for thee

>>507255557 (OP)
You think it's fair to make disgustingly rich people only very rich so that the wage floor can finally rise for the first time in 50 years and people can afford homes again? You're entitled, and greedy!

>>507255557 (OP)
Managerial communism and managerial capitalism are two sides of the same coin.

>>507256347
Trump and any American politician really should be making plans for moving the south of the US to a new agricultural labour model but nobody is doing that. Maybe they are all quietly hoping for improved robotics and AI technology to save them but that's demonstrably a lack of leadership.
In Trump's defence however he already has his hands full on the immigration file just kicking out organized crime, random violent illegals, and other random illegals that the Biden administration welcomed by incompetence in the millions. Radically re-inventing multiple generations of ag policy at the same time is a bit much to ask.

>>507258706
>Data are for average hourly compensation of production/nonsupervisory workers in the private sector and net productivity of the total economy
Ok, so supervisors are contributing more to productivity then they did in the past.

>>507258706
Stop pasting this graph.

wages are not the only way you get paid, you also get paid with healthcare insurance in the united states and that is what makes up the difference.

Learn what total remuneration is.

>>507255557 (OP)
crossnigger missionary nonprofits teach english to these third worlders and sponsor them to migrate west. kikes aren't replacing us it's crossniggers

>>507261027
What about Canada?

>>507258706
If you want to talk about home affordability there's another graph you could be posting with the cost of housing vs disposable income. Canada's situation looks particularly grim. Old rules of thumb governing how much of a Canadian's income should be going towards housing have been thrown out. Even affordable housing, by the federal definition, isn't what a member of the public would call affordable, and that's with federal programs to subsidize it.

>>507256040
The biggest flaw in capitalist thinking, which works most of the time, is the inability to reward anyone who isn't the owner of a firm.

>>507255557 (OP)
Everyone is a slave under communism you dumb fucking kike.

>>507255557 (OP)
>Slaves
Shut the fuck up commie

>>507256040
>>507263817
>>507255557 (OP)
It's amazing how LINE GO UP for everything EXCEPT wages/salaries/take home pay... that's the big issue that needs to be addressed.

I've been in pro-capitalist circles for years, read most of the /lit/. Seen all the best arguments for capitalism... which are all sound and make sense, but never is the issue of
>I don't want to pay my employees so I can keep more for me
Ever addressed.

>>507258706
Forsooth, that chart shows people ARE working, they ARE being "productive"... they just aren't being rewarded for it.

>>507263886
>>507263989
How do we increase wages and salaries without government intervention into the economy? (This isn't an argument for it, this is asking what's the counter move here.)

>>507264072
>I don't want to pay my employees so I can keep more for me
You're just a liar because this is one of the most commonly addressed criticisms of capitalism.

High profits induce competition. Competition means competitive compensation. Employers will pay their employees an agreeable wage or they will lose them.

>>507255557 (OP)
Farmers are the biggest welfare queens in the US.
Go look.
Agri-business ain't got no room for Bubba no more, just higher profits.
Poor farmers have not existed for decades.
We have agri-business men with college degress and GPS self driving tractors, then we have boomer hobby farmers who don't actually pay their bills by farming. There's alot of those.
Yankees buy land, rent it to said agri-business men, then declare themselves farmers.

Usury and monopoly ownership are what enables this, and what requires cheap immigrant labor.

>>507264527
Get rid of taxes and everyone's pay effectively goes up 100%.

>>507264527
Simple.
Corporations cannot own land.
FALSE PERSONS CANNOT OWN REAL ESTATE.

That would also solve the housing crisis.

>>507266081
Retard

>>507266348
Jew.

>>507264527
Both of the other responses and cutting down government that serves as a vessel for regulatory capture. Also any company that derives 67% of it's income from government or government adjacent payout is to be dissolved

>>507265336
>ou're just a liar because this is one of the most commonly addressed criticisms of capitalism.
Nah you can't read... stop saying I'm lying when I promise I've read more on the subject than you...

> Employers will pay their employees an agreeable wage or they will lose them.
See, that's the unaddressed issue
THE EMPLOYEES DONT AGREE TO THE WAGE. The employees have ZERO SAY in what the wage is. There is no competitive negotiation on wages. That's my personal solution -- switch to a legal framework that backs up works/employees picking their own wages and corporations are free to accept or reject that wage. Corporations and anyone hiring anyone else shouldn't be the one determining the price here. They don't do that with physical supplies...

>>507265986
And this works in theory but government's are so resistant to doing it.

>>507266081
I've been leaning towards this for awhile too, I don't like it because it's still intervention, but rules should be applied to residential real estate being owned by corporations.

>>507258162
capitalism for my profits, communism for my losses
that's what the banks said in 2008
it's also what MIC does

>>507266531
>Also any company that derives 67% of it's income from government or government adjacent payout is to be dissolved
I want to see more of this too, so many firms and companies only exist because they get their money from the government. Construction companies building endless roads every year, they drag it out as much as possible so they can keep getting paid...

Sportsball is the worst about this. They buck their costs, the running of stadiums/arenas onto literally everyone else, including the government. All their profits go to paying their players, coaches, travel expenses, etc etc.. but they try everything they can to no pay the bills in the arenas and stadiums and make local governments do that.

>>507255557 (OP)
Nobody will take you seriously as long as you keep using words wrong.
Plus nobody cares if you become a commie, you won't do shit.
Commies aren't a real threat to anyone because if you actually had the ability to do anything impactful you wouldn't be a commie.
You just suck at life.

>>507266674
>I promise I've read more on the subject than you...
I promise you, you haven't.
>THE EMPLOYEES DONT AGREE TO THE WAGE. The employees have ZERO SAY in what the wage is. There is no competitive negotiation on wages.
Employers are competing for employees. The idea that the entire market will conspire to force wages down makes no sense. If you don't offer an agreeable wage, that person will go work for someone who will.

>>507255557 (OP)
>Michael Tracey
Ah, bait. So I'll just point out that until we deport the people who have been here less than 20-25 years, yeah, those who have been here longer are lower priority, and at the rate we're going, we're going to be lucky if we can just get rid of all the illegals Biden let in over the last few years. So Tracey can take his fake concern for policies he disagrees with anyway and shove then up his disingenuous ass.

>>507268421
>I promise you, you haven't.
I promise you I have. You want to come over and see my library?

>>507268421
> If you don't offer an agreeable wage, that person will go work for someone who will.
But we don't see this happening in reality. We see people being peer pressured and goading into taking lower and lower wages.

If you say
>McDonalds isn't paying enough so I won't work there
You get called lazy.

>>507266674
Lolbertarian bootlickers have no answer to this. All of lolbertarianism is a cope based on very primitive and unrealistic models of human behavior. Game theory, economics, and empirical studies of social dynamics have advanced while lolbertarians cling to the economic equivalent of alchemy.

>>507268421
> The idea that the entire market will conspire to force wages down makes no sense

We are literally seeing this happen in real time, via the importation of massive amounts of third worlders. Lolbertarians are actually retarded

>>507268711
That anon is retarded and doesn’t understand how inelastic demand and power dynamics play into his 16th century alchemical version of economic theory. Their fantasy is predicated on every single economic interaction taking place between symmetric equals who have instantaneous access to perfect global information. It’s so idealized as to be wholly retarded.

Plenty of jobs pay a sub-living wage and wagies have no choice but to eat it, but these faggots will engage in endless mental gymnastics to explain why we shouldn’t believe our lying eyes.

>>507255557 (OP)
Taco

>>507255557 (OP)
>another libnigger who strives to be correct over being victorious
for calling me a terrorist and playing the both-sides card for 30+ years (ongoing), you desrve to be outvoted by retards who are opposed to virtues of the political system you strive to defend. go fuck yourself faggot lmao commit suicide after you get falseflagged tomorrow ahahahahahah

Why is everyone in this board a fucking retard??

>>507269174
>Plenty of jobs pay a sub-living wage and wagies have no choice but to eat it, but these faggots will engage in endless mental gymnastics to explain why we shouldn’t believe our lying eyes.
That's the point I'm getting too, I understand the arguments in favor of the free market, but we don't see them playing out in reality, just like with communism and socialism.

People get peer pressured into taking less pay and essentially bullied into pay cuts... Average people don't have negotiating power and that's where I think the laws and legal framework should begin leaning into. Let people set their own wages and parameters for work, not the person buying the labor, who has every incentive to NOT PAY or try to cheapen out.

>>507269924
We don't all post Michael Tracey bullshit, so we're not.

>>507255557 (OP)
>this is capitalism
No, it's not. The closest thing we've had to actual free market capitalism was the Silk Road and the jews shut it down because they weren't getting their cut with (((taxes)))

>>507270173
Free markets in the sense lolbertarians interpret them (all agents are perfectly equivalent, perfectly rational, and make optimal choices based on perfect information with perfect consistency) do not exist. The greedy algorithm that solves the problem by imagining two such perfect agents interacting and scales it up times a billion to describe the economy does not work.

Real markets are inherently asymmetric and, in the absence of external regulations, contain extremely suboptimal feedback loops and perverse incentives. Government agents with a monopoly on violence (effectively an infinite-cost barrier superimposed on otherwise easy to satisfy perverse optimization) are required to achieve anything close to a reasonable outcome. The job of the government is to add penalty functions to perverse or disagreeable objectives that marker agents are trying to optimize. Low IQ lolbertarians don’t understand this, so tje boil everything down to the two-perfectly-rational-agents model

>>507255557 (OP)
Neo-Liberalism is the engine of immigration.

Hayek believed the working and middle classes should be made into serfs.

People like Thiel, Bannon, Musk, etc, want to make you have nothing and be happy, they want to abolish pensions, education, healthcare, etc.

They want to roll back everything FDR, Asquith, Gladstone, etc did and return to a social structure of Rulers and slave's.

>>507271197
Yeah and what we keep seeing, especially in our modern times, is good behavior is essentially not rewarded. Humans are too dishonest for it. Humans demand good behavior, that people work hard to earn rewards...
But humans will literally ignore the hardest workers and reward who they sexually/socially prefer instead. I've seen this at every job I've every worked.

How long are you retards you going to try to make hay off of this tweet?

>>507268711
You're assuming that what McDonald's pays is too low. How do you determine that in the first place?

>>507271197
I'm an not an Austrian.

>>507255557 (OP)
You guys are retarded if you think Trump is talking about illegals. He's specifically talking about guest workers who are here legally. You are all either
>shills
>retards brainwashed by the kike media

Either way, some rope around your necks will do you good.

>>507273067
If it's too low for a single individual to live completely by themselves with no help, based solely on the pay from McDonalds, it's too low.

They get away with such low wages because they find people who are living at home, rent-free or living with lovers. Anyone who isn't completely financially dependent on the job for their entire cost of continued survival.

>>507258706
>Look ma, I posted it again
First off, this graph isn't accounting for innovations like automation.

Second, it only counts hourly compensation while ignoring employer provided benefits
>Healthcare
>PTO
>401k
>Payroll taxes

Third, houses are unaffordable b/c this country has seen tens of millions of shiskins and nigger pour in since Hart-Cellar while contributing a net negative to the economy.

Lastly, it doesn't help that LBJ expanded welfare gibs so much with his Great Society kikery, Nixon had to unpeg the dollar from the Bretton Woods gold equivalency when the French called their bluff.

>>507274270
Some jobs have marginal products lower than the cost of a single person living by themselves. Forcing employers to pay more results in fewer jobs. We have seen this over and over with minimum wage and employers becoming less willing to higher people without experience.

Some people live with their parents, some people are going to school and want some extra cash, some people want on site training, etc. Telling those people they aren't allowed to work for that low won't raise their pay, it will destroy those jobs.

>>507259282
>robotics and AI technology to save them but that's demonstrably a lack of leadership.
The vast majority of agriculture is or can be automated. The only farmers crying like bitches are those who are too cheap to automate, so they rely heavily on illegal labor.

When ICE shows up and takes their shitspic labor force, they go on camera and cry about
>But who will pick these crops now?!
>Might as well let them go to waste

>>507275329
>hird, houses are unaffordable b/c this country has seen tens of millions of shiskins and nigger pour in since Hart-Cellar
No shit nigger, what do you think suppresses wages?

>>507256040
How were you not already one after studying National Socialism?